Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider duderegular.
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Quoted from mcbPalisade:Wastes valuable battery life that could be used on social media ( - :
For that matter why don't new pins have USB chargers? People might play pinball just to charge their phones.
Then some dedicated trickster would make an app to drop quarters through that usb connection!
Quoted from daley:I did not see this posted in this thread (so sorry if already shared): https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=60&v=opAK-32MfJM
I hadn't seen it. Thanks for posting!
Big thanks to TWIP pin2d for the article, pics, and interviews. The game looks very interesting. Now there is something out there for everyone to take a look at. That surely means the bonkers speculation will subside. Right? That is a joke for any needing that pointed out...
Anyways, hopefully we get some more feedback from any of the folks making it over to the event in Houston.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I do not get the "underdog" narrative with this gang, at all.
They showed up out of nowhere, hired every pinball washup they could find off the street plus 500 other people, threw a ton of money around and threw around even more bullshit, talking very loud shit about the entire industry, and insulting countless people here.
That's not an underdog. It's an overdog. And with all their fancy pedigree and papers they haven't even learned how to fucking sit or stay yet. Probably not even housebroken yet.
underdog, overdog.... Bro... What about good ol updog???
Quoted from GuiitarMan:Not looking good...
[quoted image]
Did you read it? He says he will continue with the site, but with a focus on his employer... deeproot.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Hello pinside my old friend
I've come to let you down again
You were promised innovation off the charts
BUt all we've got today is a silent fart
And the word salads of the podcasters, said nothing at all
There was No pinball
Echoed with the sounds...of silence
Pinside's own Bob Dylan
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Dunning–Kruger effect explains it pretty well I think.
I learned a new term today. Best thing to come out of this thread. Thank you sir.
Quoted from iceman44:The FACT is that DR didn’t have to promise JACK SHIT to anybody.
Not sure I understand your point though. Does that make it better or worse that they did make promises?
Quoted from TreyBo69:Spooky selling out so fast is a recent occurrence. AMH, RZ, AC, and TNA were out and about at shows for a long time before they actually sold out. And now there are just tons of flippers for any limited release game and people have faith in Spooky delivering games in a relatively timely fashion. (Some people fret about having to wait up to 18 months for their game, as if Stern doesn't have year long waiting lists for ordering things like Elvira HOH)
Kinda makes me wonder if AP will do a CE of their next game. If they nail the theme selection, I bet they could sell out in a day or so.
AP stated they are going to a two tier model. I believe "Deluxe" is the name of their new higher end model.
https://deeprootpinball.com/community/user/568
The mueller account. No scores posted....
Quoted from TreyBo69:That seems to be the last account made too? You can go forward and back with the numbers and see some more accounts. No scores, but some accounts and even some profile pictures. Most seem like gibberish. Must still be testing all the functionality while the manufacturing side does...something
Some user accounts are just email addresses. Some with German endings? Seems like very bad privacy practices because it's not hard to pull this info. This link pulls up every user account that used their email as their user name: https://deeprootpinball.com/community/user?username=%40
Probably not the best setup I agree.
User 1 is deeproot
They have latin
Dolorem earum vel sunt ea. Fugiat itaque et laborum officia reiciendis. Reprehenderit excepturi et molestiae deleniti voluptas sunt tenetur. Et velit quae cum maxime
translates to:
Pain to them or to them. Avoid therefore rejects responsibilities and snacks. Welcome pleasure and discomfort are bound to find quo. He wants at any particular
Quoted from TreyBo69:That's lorem ipsum. It's a common filler text used in graphic design because it's mostly nonsense, but it has the appearance of text when designing a page before the text is final.
Figures it would be something left over. Just posting the interesting stuff I see.
Most interesting so far is one that shows store credits and has a selfie with a guy I don't recognize and JPOP:
Quoted from benheck:Don't worry guys, Robert's latest business venture is already up and running!
I hear Jpop's pulling down 125k (plus dental) to run the stand.
[quoted image]
Quoted from Rarehero:Corn is easy. Quad harvesting.
Quoted from cpr9999:Darn came into this thread expecting an update with 100’s of posts since my last checking in - anything new?
No
Quoted from benheck:Hey remember how Robert wanted to make a real version of Windows 95 Space Cadet.exe?
Now THERE'S a guy with his finger on the pulse of what the hobby wants, lemme tell ya!
Well it did come out in the 90's. Pretty much all the stuff they showed was going for some 80's or 90's throwback. The yeti game is a whitewater sequel. The medieval game was 8 ball deluxe layout. Goonies. Food truck being a diner spiritual successor I guess. Your fav raza/cyclone. The only "modern" idea was a bigass screen by the flippers....
Quoted from yancy:Biggest red flag moment (of many) when I visited the Zidware shop was John proudly showing off a coil bracket he redesigned to incorporate a cutout Z logo.
Seems like the obvious choice of where to spend your resources...
One of my favorite cringe moments (The video should go to the exact spot):
The Emphasized "My Design", talking about the backbox....
Quoted from Beechwood:I asked on the other thread, but apparently wasn't taken seriously.
If three people backed out and asked for a refund, can I take their pre-order spot by sending a deposit?
You want to send money to these guys? On purpose?
Quoted from Beechwood:And if the answer is yes, and they take a deposit then (at this point if they know they can't produce the game) it becomes criminal.
Your secret sting operation may not be so secret when posting in the thread about the company you are looking to run said sting operation on.
Quoted from Mr68:You're stranded on a desert island with either Robert or Jpop. Who do you choose and what pinball machine.
I choose to leave them both with a EM whitewood playfield in a 80's plain bally cabinet and a box of crayons. I will swim for it.
Quoted from benheck:Are their any zombies in the game name? All I see is a bunch of purple puke carnival crap.
Oh and AMAZING TOYS like a static jet. And a static motorcycle. And a mostly static light up NED. And some fucking alien on Yet Another TOTAN Lamp Spinner.
Curious if we will ever see Food Truck. Maybe their original games actually did feature innovation on the PF itself. Why not lead with that?
Its high time you start showing respect to "Title: TBD™"
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I have zero idea how any of this works.
Can someone explain why RM hasn’t been arrested/indicted for something yet?
Is that forthcoming?
I believe its because this is a civil matter by the SEC. Criminal charges can be filed as well though.
Quoted from frolic:Considering that EHOH has been out for YEARS already, and deeproot never got any titles released, is a real example of how things get done at Stern versus the disaster that was deeproot. Even if somehow Robert had a conversation years ago about what an E3 might look like.
It's like with ZombieYeti... you want your art on games in the world, work with Stern.
"I told George Lucas this star wars thing is pretty cool. You should make another one. My idea
I told Stallone that Rocky thing was a pretty fun. You should make more of those. My idea
Pretty much all sequels were my idea basically.
But you don't have to thank me. You are welcome!"
--dR00ts
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Hey guys, I just had a genius idea: PlayStation 6.
If Sony ends up making it someday, you know who to thank.
Have you heard of 8 minute abs?
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Robert should have stuck with what he knows best and focused his investment strategy on coal mines in Africa.[quoted image]
I was gonna make a semi snarky comment about the lack of timely relevance of an Austin Powers meme, but.....
Those movies came out more recently than a decent JPOP game....
Quoted from Gorgar666:Bobby Pinball will make a come back, and everyone will receive their RAZA. Stay Patients people.
No. No they won't.
Quoted from Inside:So wait - was there an actual legal issue about RAZA and then the SEC suit came out of nowhere? Robert was deposed by the SEC recently - surely he knew something was up?
It seems that the "RAZA" legal issue was actually the SEC getting after him in a big way. At least that is what everyone is going with until we hear yet more legal drama related to a theme very few seem to actually desire.
Quoted from Richthofen:I remember two years ago I went through this weeklong period where I was kind of obsessed with this topic on here and so I went and dug through all the SEC literature about the money raised. Me and another person in the pinball community chatted over FB messenger trying to piece it together. It seemed weird that the pinball company part could use money raised by the other companies, but I was not a lawyer. I didn't have enough knowledge to know what is allowed and what is not. I used the word fraud early in this topic, not because I had evidence, but because everything I’ve learned about business and building things indicated it is a conservative environment re: spending and claims. Get your customers and sales first, then brag. Not the other way around. The way Robert was acting, fraud was incredibly likely. I know our brains are warped by the size of madoff’s fraud, but this is a huge fraud at $58 million. Even billionaires like the sharks on shark tank don’t invest $50 million into one venture. They spread themselves out over many startups. And don’t get me started on returns. You don’t spend $10 million to capture a $10 million market, it’s a total waste of money. When we thought Robert was spending 10-20 million it was just absurd since stern does maybe 20 million in revenue a year? Why would you spend $20 million to capture a million in profits every year ? Takes you 20 years to make it back. Might as well invest in treasuries at that point.
And it’s also the nature of the business. People see Silicon Valley money and think, well, it’s totally normal to raise huge funds with anticipated sales. In software, yes, because you build the product once then it’s available to anyone to use and each sale is gravy once the software is built. Really in software the issue is finding customers and selling what you’ve built. Manufacturing real goods is a completely different ballgame. Yes, the larger the orders the more discounts you get but in general you have to pre buy all these parts and make huge capital investments or partner with firms who do. Its an incremental game. Treating a manufacturing business like a software business was bound to fail. We are also told “old industries are dinosaurs” and if they would just innovate like software companies then they’d be killing it. And anyone can come around and “disrupt” those industries. Robert thought he could “disrupt” pinball. But simple economics thought otherwise.
Man, you just don't get it! He was going to grow the market and make all others look like garage-level production. 3500 bucks was overpriced! PINBAR! Every teen and 20 something would be buying them too! 20 million in market cap is just a small slice of what deeproot was gonna do!
Quoted from Richthofen:I know you're kidding but... most of America can't afford housing and healthcare, never mind pinball machines. The market for expensive toys will always be small. There's a term in business called Total Addressable Market, and folks, as much as pinball is a huge part of our lives, to most people, it's a weird relic from a former era. The IFPA says 25,000 unique people played in sanctioned pinball events in 2019. I've been to many events and talked to a lot of people. I'd say half or less have machines in their home. They're just an expensive luxury to most of the country. So the TAM is 12,500 active pinball collectors. (again this is an estimate. Lots of collectors don't play in IFPA events, but we need a benchmark). I'm going to say there's 2,500 operators buying games as well, worldwide. I got that number by taking the last estimate of arcade count I could find online that says 2,500 arcades and 3,500 FECs exist in the USA. The FECs almost never have pinball from what I've seen but let's say the arcades do, and they buy 1 new game a year on average. So, we've arrived at 15,000 pinball purchasers in the USA. For sake of argument, let's say they all buy 1 game a year. That is an optimistic maximum of 15,000 sales a year. Assuming no competition to split sales among. And let's say you have 20% margins on a $5,000 game (deeproot was gonna sell games at kia prices, after all). So that means $1,000 X 15,000. Which means a maximum of $15,000,000 in profits. Robert was burning $750,000 a month in Salary. At $9 million a year in barebones operating costs, Robert would literally need to sell every new pinball machine in the world for this to work. It's what we call a "long shot". There was never a middle ground here, either Robert captured the entire pinball market, and beat Stern at what they've been doing for 40+ years, or they blow up. With the amount of money spent, there was never a middle ground.
There. I just did more market research in the above paragraph than apparently deeproot did in 6 years of pinball "manufacturing".
If deeproot was planning on 'growing the pinball market', why did they do their sponsorship / advertising of pinball events, where everyone already knew about them? Why didn't they work with major retailers to get the games into places where new faces would see them (like Stern did with costco)? Why doesn't any other expensive home amusement manufacturer "grow their market"? Could you imagine a pool table manufacturer saying "A pool table for every family, every family needs a pool table"?
Man you have put some really good info together in your posts. My last post was simply in the vain of the common-sense ignoring blowhard type. They just have this magic vision that others lack. Mere mortals just don't understand!
When the volume is not going to move a ton on a per unit sales basis, margin is the target. Ex multiple tiers of product, accessories. These dudes were going to race to the bottom on price, yet somehow have better margins, better quality, higher volume, etc. Ridiculous claims from the get go.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:JPOP could be managed in the future. You would have to set short term goals & make sure he stays focused. After all the failures he has had since the glory days finishing with the closing of WMS. You would think that he will have to drastically change & take a lower job to move forward. He has some good ideas, along with wacky & poor ones. That is why he has continued dreaming the last 20 years.
There is likely some good that will come out of this failure with Deeproot. Bad to throw people under the bus when you are just hoping for a paying job. Lots of talented people that hopefully we will see what they were working on.
All new starts & even the big players can go under. Pinball Manufacturing is HARD, so is getting good financial backing.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Yes JPOP can still be managed, & will likely move on to more pinball work. He should be a freelance pinball dreamer, & designer. But that is all, he needs a team to get games built.
People know what you need to have production to actually get games out the door. Have good relations with parts vendors, & contractors that do the bulk of a real build. That was the problem with Deeproot, no production in place & piss off most in that parts side of the business. The first thing you would do from day one is find a local cabinet or woodworking shop to build your cabinets & do your playfield manufacturing. Pay your vendors & staff properly!
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Ben your nightmare will likely continue along with others that want JPOP to go away. Like I have said he will likely find a new home & drive you crazy! JPOP will need tight supervision, & monitoring for goal milestones going forward. He will be part of a team, & definitely Not A Leader towards pinball production. If anything is wrangled out of Deeproot liquidation, it may or may not be used. The new company will have investors that Know The Risks of investing in a new pinball manufacturing business. No one is going to come out & think they are going to be a major player. I continue to state the new players are looking to start similar to the first days of Spooky to where they are now. There are going to be more players in the marketplace in 2022. Greed will lead to this with prices going up way above the BOM. There is lots of room for a number of companies with fresh ideas.
The new Stern idea of promoting location play with rewards will lead others to do the same. Time to move ahead with more stuff & innovations.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Looks to be more of a factory minus any production line for Deeproot Pinball. It would be great if pictures are shown over the years of the factory. Looks like Robert can use a bunch of money that was spent over the years as part of a out towards failure. Even quad or octo manufacturing might get people away from line manufacturing. Same with the animation studio since most pinball games have displays for everything. Also throw in the few refunds & trying to do some scheme towards Zidware customers.
As for JPOP maybe he was smart & took a vacation. Funny how so much focus is on him, & no one seems to know where he is. It will upset the mob when he lands on his feet somewhere doing more pinball work.
But since JPOP took peoples money with Zidware, he must be the #1 reason Deeproot Pinball FAILED. History likes to repeat itself. Lots of info posted for people to decide if they want to roll the dice on a deposit or more on a pinball machine not in their possession. I rolled the dice twice with Jack, could lost everything (second game I almost did). Had my brand new WOZ out of the box crap out at the show. They got a part from the game next to it at the show so the distributors pin was just a display (off).
Finally over all the years going to shows, operating & servicing, producing playfields & backglass, other parts & pioneering uv inkjet playfield production. I applaud all those working in the pinball biz. I truely hope all employees find employment elsewhere quickly.
Finally lucky for me I could not go to Pinball Expo this year & do a seminar on Deeproot Pinball (my thoughts) on how to try to survive & actually make pinball games. Also I have left the Raza thread after the SEC came out. Maybe the constant gloaters should try & refrain themselves.
In all likelihood you won't even respond directly to my following questions, but I am going to post them anyways.
Why do you continue to post you constant, vigilant defense of one of these people, this business, the designs, prototypes, dr, zidware, etc, etc, etc?
What do you hope to gain?
Are you doing this in some attempt at proving your loyalty?
Are you looking to get "pinside famous" (or infamous)?
It is interesting as you appeared to have at one time in the not so distant past as a good community member building repro parts/playfields for some beloved titles. Now you appear to have gone off the deep end in championing some proven failures. It is incredibly odd to say the least.
Even if you truly were trying to get some business venture going with this vague unknown characters, you are simply turning the community against you. The very same community that you would likely hope to sell wares to in the future. Baffling...
Quoted from yancy:I asked this question sincerely, to no one in particular, and got a PM telling me it was because "he didn’t talk enough. But then you know that already don’t you?" Capped off with "you people piled on him."
I won't dignify the PM with a direct response, just thought I'd share with the class. Also won't say who sent it, "but then you know that already don’t you?"
oracle (resized).pngQuoted from greatwichjohn:Deeproot needed a real PR person. Not Robert is what we have learned.
Was the PR person going to prevent this dude from committing massive fraud???? Come on....
Quoted from benheck:If Jpop resurfaces and tries to scam YET ANOTHER new company, I bet his next game is something with Nikola Tesla.
"Tesla: Master of Lighting!" (TMOL) by Texas Star Pinball Company!
With art that looks strikingly similar to his houdini no doubt.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:New big dump of pics from within deeproot from anonymous source, this time with commentary captions. I don't know what most of this stuff is or means, so technical people please explain what we're seeing and why it's dumb.
https://imgur.com/a/8oNbj2a
Make sure to scroll to the bottom and click the button that says to load more images. There are almost 20 in total
Quoted from ForceFlow:Reposted for posterity:
Don't want folks to miss the video of the screen. I had never seen their ripoff mechagodzilla before.
Quoted from clempo:No, it goes to the shooter lane.
ya looking at it again you are right. In the enlarged pic it looks like that may have been the outlane. But now looking at the ball guide is there not an outlane at all? The lane guide appears to go all the way to the shooter lane...
Quoted from proco:It's a ball lock and a fancy kickback. And it just looks weird.
Have any other interesting stuff to share? 
I have become accustomed to a very nice way of life using this money. Certainly I should be allowed to continue until this all blows over!
Quoted from Inside:We should be seeing a response from RM today or tomorrow (by 5 I believe) about how he should be allowed to spend other people’s money on living expenses...
Its all his money. He said so. Must be true.
Perhaps this thread should get a new title. Since deeproot proved to be a big ol' scam rather than a pinball company, I propose a change to something reflecting that.
Quoted from NevadaNutJob:It was more incompetence than intentional scam . Intent matters to me in the final judgement - many will disagree . That’s okay .
You opinion just happens to be wrong and that's okay too. This dude ran a huge scam.
Quoted from thechakapakuni:I think what sunk DR was UL certification afterthought. When you announce you will be delivering pins before this step you are way out of your league in manufacturing.
[quoted image]
You sure it wasn't the massive financial scamming, lack of any experience, no manufacturing knowledge or ability, ridiculously huge ego of the "principal", constant goalpost shifting by said egomaniac, lack of any real direction, horrible choices all around, over-hiring for positions that weren't needed, buying totally unnecessary expensive equipment, using company funds on a condo in Hawaii, or any other of the number of crazy crap we have come to find out.
It was uL certification??? Come on man!
Quoted from WillSmuz8999:The old Williams standard Lockdown Bar is made in a draw die. Due to the low volume for this bar, we made a corner forming die, but calculated the way the material should be cut in strips, so we when formed in the compound radius, would mesh up well, so we weren't welding huge gaps. The way we weld, grind and buff -- you would think the part was made in a draw die, unless you flipped it over. Even so, our weld beads are minimal.
Hate to hear good people getting left holding the bag here. Not that it would make you whole, but I think you have a market in wall-art or toppers here.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Happy Halloween!
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
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Thanks for continuing to provide additional documentation. You rock man. The Prinicipal is a scammer extraordinaire.
blueberryjohnson is getting all sorts in dirt now! Thank you and thank you to your sources.
This dude couldn't manage a grocery list much less a company and development. Wow!
Not paying people constantly with excuses each time. How about just getting a backup plan for connectivity? How about a second person with approval capability? Naaaaaaaa they will be ok without pay instead....
Quoted from benheck:I recall when talking to Robert at TPF 2015 (when he stole my idea for Bible Adventures) he said, to the effect of:
"I've got to go, I've got a (online dating) date today. I'm divorcing my current wife because she got too ugly"
So guessing that became Wife #2? Then, when that fell through because he's a pudgy short asshole he said "I'm done with American women! Time to find a foreign maid I can fuck!"
Hey Ben, I gotta go. I have to go meet JPOP to check out some purple PinBars™.
Hey Ben, I gotta go. I am meeting some sucke....errr really nice people about an investment opportunity!
Hey Ben, I gotta go. Totally not going to go write down everything you said just now about Bible Adventures™ (Trademark Deeproot Ministries)
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:You knew they rented a second building next to their enormous 50,000 sq ft building?
You knew Robert dreamed of "the audience is Pinbarring" bootups?
You knew JPop was a voice of reason AGAINST infinite noodling? etc
It's the color and the details that make the masterpiece. And when the masterpiece is ready, it will be unveiled for everyone to enjoy.
I am enjoying the minutia. Please keep it coming.
Quoted from Inside:I still have a hard time wrapping my head around there being 47 employees at deeproot around PPP loan filing. Wonder how true they is!
They hired a net 20 more people after the major payroll issues that lead to many leaving too....
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:And don't forget, those numbers mustn't include deeproot studios or policy services inc, as those entities have their own separate ppp filings (four of them)
Ya doesn't smell fishy at all. Not one bit.
Quoted from Jjlp:If another company release this RAZA with his original freatures, this will be an instant buy for me !
Bro... come on...
I am sure another "company" with "real life manufacturing" and a "factory" would be happy to take your money....
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:How would propose that version be abbreviated in the Pinside database? RAZAR (Redeux) or RAZA3 (3rd try) or RAZAr (remake) or RAZAv (vault), RAZAp (prison edition) or RAZAc (CON edition). If someone does buy the rights and tries to make the game, a naming contest would be a big hit.
RAZASOY
As in RAZA Shame on You for considering putting money on it edition.
Quoted from benheck:Hey remember Duke Nukem Forever? 3D Realms spent 12 years on it. Chasing trends, it was never good enough. Company folded, some ex-employees and Gearbox finally finished it. Result? A middling game at best.
Again, someone will be dumb enough to try. Buy the 2 prototypes, take it to shows, see if there's interest. No one has said this game is amazing gem that needs to be seen, best we get is ".....fun"
Should have stayed vaporware.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:It's finally time to pull back the curtain to reveal the story behind the mystery that has most captivated this thread: Farewell Dinosaur Entertainment, LLC.
It's said that good things come to those that wait. Unsaid (but also true) is that so do mediocre, anticlimactic things. I leave it for you to judge which this is.
NOTE: My source asked me to not be the first one to put info out info about dinosaur. Given that the story shared with me roughly aligns with some of the bits shared here (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/548#post-6654073), I'm cleared for takeoff:
In 2019 as furloughs happened, some key employees rightfully got skeptical of RM's inabilities to manage a business. They wanted to possibly consider bailing. RM wrote up a series of project-based contracts for people he deemed to be key to his empire that would guarantee their staying. For being a lawyer he is an idiot and bad at writing contracts. He basically contractually obligated himself to include certain people in the creation of certain animation content for certain machines.
In February 2020, his Utah business plan needed to change because he needed to avoid keeping his 2.4 million dollar lease obligations to the Mountain America Bank office space. So he was FORCED to dissolve Deeproot Studios to back out of his lease. He had to have his employees sneak out of the building with their equipment/computers in the middle of the night to avoid the building ownership.
One of his key employees had him in a contractual obligation that was... inconvenient. To maintain the terms of the contract and provide that employee with continual involvement with the production of that machine and maybe another (Merlin's Arcade and Gladiator, I think), he formed a company called Farewell Dinosaur which would be owned by Robert but operated by this employee.
This employee decided he didn't like Robert owning him and this new company so he renegotiated into forming Futurehouse Studios.
It was a legal loophole he was trying to swing.
Robot Dreams Entertainment, LLC was the other idea for the name of the studio. Robert registered them both.
******
Editor's Notes:
A.
Neither Farewell Dinosaur nor Robot Dreams are listed in the recent slate of bankruptcy filings along with all the other deeproot nonsense companies, despite both still being recognized as in existence by the state of Texas and having their own, distinct taxpayer id numbers. For that matter, the same is also the case for several other DR entities including Deeproot Sports & Entertainment, LLC; Deeproot Queue Fund, Inc; Deeproot Re 12621 Silicon Dr, LLC.
Are these omissions oversights? Mistakes? Intentional? On the up and up? Additional problems for RM? I'd love to hear thoughts from those on the thread who understand better this stuff and the potential implications.
B.
A question was recently raised about where the fancy computers and stuff went that Robert allegedly passed along to others. I looked at the voluntary chapter 7 petitions filed for each of the LLCs associated with the SEC case and spotted a couple things in the Deeproot Studios one that caught my eye. Don't know if there's any there there, but maybe someone else does?
[quoted image]
1. $1 - 10m in assets remaining (nothing or next to nothing is the more common box ticked in these filings)
2. The 12227 S Business Park Dr, Ste. 130 address listed as the location of assets does not correspond to addresses I have found associated with DR's Utah operations. My guess: after hightailing it from office #2 he rented another place to stash stuff but not where (many/any?) people continued to work.
Not what I thought it was going to be, but actually pretty juicy! Thanks for sharing and keeping at this blueberryjohnson
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Instructions for joining the hearing by webex on Monday.
Let's do it.
[quoted image]
bro- set this up on twitch
Quoted from Inside:That may be illegal - usually you are not allowed to record or retransmit court proceedings.
Well certainly don't want to get someone in trouble. Maybe just a watch party chat haha.
Quoted from WillSmuz8999:There are 55 stainless and 76 Dormant Blue Glass Frames and PinBars. It appears the release was for 131 games.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Insider info. I am going to guess that there are less populated playfields than that running around. 
Quoted from Hoteldrummer:I get it and you make some good points, but isnt it funny how titles, themes and more get leaked like nothing yet for YEARS an entire staff worked at this place and not a clue that something was as crooked as it was? Four cheesy Harbor Freight work benches with one person screwing something together and nobody thought maybe there is an issue? I dont know, just seems strange on so many levels. I was a material planner for Hughes aircraft for years before starting my own company and these things just dont add up to me. I get the size of the company and government contracts vs pinball machines is a big difference but wow, somethings missing IMO
The head dude was the one putting out info (of all varieties, falsehoods, titles, BS, grandiose claims, etc). It wasn't the employees leaking. You have a weird focus on the employees here and it only makes sense to you. That should tell you something.
Quoted from Hoteldrummer:Absolutly NOTHING you said here makes any sense. I have that focus because its straight obvious they knew. Was everyone that worked there completely new to pinball? Was every single person working there just a pick up out of the local paper and had never seen manufacturing before? Get outta here with that shit, makes sense to anyone WITH sense.
It makes perfect sense. You simply don't want to listen to anything outside of your determination. The head dude has been outed as a litigious lawyer. He ruled via fear and threats. Yet here comes some internet guru who blames the employees. Brilliant.
Quoted from JodyG:If you called him up and asked him to help you hide a body, would he? That is the kind of question which needs to be asked!
Damn... Again?
Quoted from soren:Can you sell a game today with a DMD display? Let alone a monochromatic one. As sad as it may be. Colour changing inserts (at least some) are in demand too. And pinball reissues need to have an investment on hardware and content.
Not the best example..... But the homepin game coming out is said to have a dmd and lcd.
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Not a good look. My guess how things went:
RM: Come work for me.
JPOP: I have legal issues that need a solvin!
RM: I will solve it all and cover all the legal stuff. No worries bruh!
JPOP: Will you pay me?
RM: All is good just trust me dawg! We aren't here to talk numbers. We are going to take over pinball!
Quoted from greatwichjohn:No I will not be going after IP stuff personally. There are likely numerous parties looking at the IP & other remaining assets that might come up at auction. The parties want to remain quiet, & see how things pan out. People can either believe this or not. I have no agenda to stir up the Deeproot fiasco. But the horse is not dead as far as I know at this time.
They want to remain quiet and yet you continue to post random crap about it on the internet...
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Does this mean we'll have a chance to bid on that cardboard Nordman whitewood that was pictured leaning up against the wall with a bunch of garbage?
I think we can bring that game to production if we pool our resources!
I am in on the condition it comes with TWO pinbars....
Quoted from mrgone:Why is it every half wit nut job and cheap, dime store con man that comes in here and touts the magic of jpop and others ALWAYS starts out with, I know things and I can’t tell.
Ok ok I am going to share a REAL secret....
The folks who actually have insider knowledge... they don't come into internet threads.... about failed companies.... ran by scamming thieves... and then tell everyone they know secrets.... that they can't share....
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Still here & not much to add until the Raza protos are sold. Same with Jpop, if he is managed correctly, & get him to focus on completion. There are a number of future ventures I am looking at if there is proper financial backing from investors. You need a good team & realistic goals.
Bro.... All this jpop talk....
vinyl-records-record-collection.gifQuoted from jonnyqtrek:Found a better gig, maybe?
Private sector pay is likely a touch higher than gov pay.
Quoted from Rarehero:Maybe one of Great Sandwich’s secret buddies will buy the IP so we can all enjoy Deeproot presents: PLYWOOD.
They are watching closely and keeping an eye peeled and monitoring the situation and keeping tabs and waiting in the wings and ready to pounce and conducting their research and and and
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Guys the 2 groups went to the pre auction viewing & decided there was nothing of real value. Both groups likely came to their senses of why would you throw more money away. They were serious & had money, but it was a pass! I have heard nothing from the few that bought anything of any true value. I can help out if they want to talk. There are lots of dreamers & believers that think pinball manufacturing is easy. Just look at the long list of failed companies that were in it for decades, & those that only survived limited years. It is hard enough just to do pinball parts manufacturing today.
Anyways people can look for me at the Pintastic Show in June. I will be there at the booth space I paid to promote EZ Pinball. That is where my retirement is taking me to do new builds starting with classic Stern style games. Do not think Mirco goes to this show yet, but it would be funny to be next to him. I had a recent pm from Rick @ PPS about new classic Stern builds. Looks like I will see what is going on, & I already told him its not like a factory planned like Haggis Pinball. Myself being very limited it is builds for a few guys in my area. Also leads into doing fresh new builds on different themes.
You may want to consider starting another thread to garner interest in your pintastic booth. Not doing yourself many favors constantly repeating in this thread.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I feel like I’ve done my bit in this thread so maybe you can help me out here….
What is this current scam? One of RMule’s Crooked cronies is attempting to “buy” the debt owed to the victims? For some reason?
I may have it oversimplified, but robert was buying up these insurance policies as investments and was required to keep up the payments. Turner came in making roberts website. That may indicate Turner has some intimate knowledge of the whole shebang. Roberts and his house of cards crumbles, then this Turner guy comes in guns blazing ready to buy policies for pennies on the dollar. After being a business associate of robert, sounds pretty sketchy.
Quoted from yancy:^ This.
That playfield is so ridiculously convoluted that you could retheme it to Black Hole 2: Deeproot.
Lets keep this going!
Black Hole 2: Deeproot's Quest for Relevance
I appreciate all the summarizing, digging, and various forms of commenting from the latest round of deeproot events. Thanks all.
blueberryjohnson Any estimate on your time investment thus far? Totally understand if you don't (or prefer not to disclose
).
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:lol
They say if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life.
PS I unfortunately won't get to listen to this until the end of the day. Hope people enjoy!
PPS more yet to come
You don't sound at all like I would expect coming from a blueberry. I am disappoint
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:I may have missed some.
However, he bought both RAZAs. And the lot of four pinball cabinets. Basically, all of the most expensive game stuff.
And multiple former employees + common sense say he has to have the RAZA code (and any other game code that was ever produced).
It's interesting.
Maybe going for deeproot 2.0/zidware3.0/fancyofficesnacks2.0???
Quoted from greatwichjohn:You never know. The pinball world is very small. Not like I have been hiding from anyone the last 15 years of doing parts production.
I am not a marketing guru by any means, buuuuuutttttttt......
I am gonna go out on a limb and say a gigantic thread about a scamming, failed, dumpster-fire company is probably not the ideal place to advertise your services.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:The art looks good that was put up. It should be easy to scan for those that are trying to build their own game. Shop around for a good printer & price. They like it if you are not in a rush. Do not know how they made the deeproot cabinets but that should be able to be done from the examples bought.
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from blueberryjohnson:Getting around to looking through recent doc. A few additional items of interest from the lawyer BH logs.
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Minor excitement yet to come?
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Chris Turner already purchased
1) all of Robert's insurance policies and
2) lots of lots from the auction, including the most expensive deeproot pins + cabinets,
and he is presumably is in possession of
3) all of the code,
and is (or was) writing with questions about buying
4) the pinball IP
I genuinely wonder what the goal is here. Does he want to make a go at Robert's failed ventures to see if he can make them succeed?
Two lines of thought pop up for me on this whole deal with these two. One is that maybe it was a mentor-mentee type situation and now the mentee picks up the reigns and gets going. The other is that dude is simply acting as the public agent while the superstar is operating in the shadows still...
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Shameless self promotion:
https://www.thepinballnetwork.net/e/the-pinball-show-uprooting-deeproot-part-1/
https://www.thepinballnetwork.net/e/the-pinball-show-ep-97-spirit-animals/
Also: What in the blue fuck is this all about?
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No way this is a mueller alias, right?
You are so pinball famous that you have haters and trolls. Bask in the glory.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Guys I still like drinking you know what. I keep getting moderated so I will keep to what I know. The group was very serious but with Covid, supply chain issues, & Deeproot Pinball ready to explode they likely delayed their plans. TRUST is a big thing with me dealing with different people & companies. I do not hide from my business being sold off due to personal financial problems mostly from new playfield production over the years. My refusal to raise prices for the prepaid guys at $500 US delivered for the many years that they finally went out. Competition is fierce in glass & playfield production. Yes I am over 30% into my personal bankruptcy, & on my meagre company pension plan to support my wife ($23k US).
The guys had a good plan to get in the business, & still might be doing so. But after Haggis being slow with Fathom production. They are likely going to have their ship in order before launching a new pinball manufacturing business. More like the start of Spooky Pinball, crawl before you walk! I will be at the Pintastic Show talking with industry people, pinball owners, & drinking. Stop by my booth promoting EZ Pinball Cabinets.
Dude- go start a thread.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:I forget when/where I saw it, but at some point John was offering as a commercial service to make whatever pinball machine any John Q. Public commissioned of him.
So if you want that grail, go get that grail. I assume he's open to new work opportunities.
Ya Levi just needs to manage him properly.
Quoted from BrewinBombers:Can we limit threads to one absolute train wreck? We already have a different one for the Trailer Park Boys situation, and the same people are arguing in both.
You not only accept multiple trainwrecks in one thread... You will ENJOY it! Or else or something
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Assuming it's something like this.
[quoted image]
Not enough purple
Great, maybe greatwichjohn wants to start a turner pinball thread to chase whales or dolphins or whatever.
Quoted from mbeardsley:The layout chart seems like it has a lot more going on than in the video. I watched the video and was bored by the layout before the video was even over.
The layout chart seems a lot more interesting, maybe because it was hard to tell what was going on near the top of the playfield in the video.
I also think it is weird that he spelt PELOTON on the targets "backwards". Normally targets like that are labelled top-down, not bottom-up. (see RIVER targets on WH20, or DELUXE targets on EBD).
I first looked at it and thought "what's a NOTOLEP?".
Quoted from pinballguru:It’s the same layout in video as flyer. The side drains were cropped out from view, but they are there. The video was flipped because I decided to flip the playfield to have the spinner shot from right flipper. The seven-bank of strandup targets in video are three extra-wide (1-1/2” wide) standups, but 7 regular 1” wide standups will fit. The new plunger shot delivers ball to right ball lock area.
I also replaced the Power Scoop at Pop Bumpers with a standup target.in the most recent version to save money. Power Scoop isn’t needed since balls can be stopped at the side “Ball Lock” lane. Mystery was moved to the right-side lock. I also deleted the left lock to save money.
Yes, “Easy to clean” was a big selling point for simple games. I used the Bally “Feature-Gram” from the 1970s as a model to make the flyer.
How about a break from the current bobert employment chat and talk licenses...
I hadn't heard before about the pinball brothers deeproot connection as mentioned on the most recent Eclectic gamer's podcast. Dennis mentioned that the two companies were in talks about potential license purchase/transfer. He said Queen was offered for 500K and Playboy was offered for 75K. Possible that the queen layout and design done by Barry was part of the bigger purchase price. If this was previously mentioned, feel free to ignore.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Jurek's question indicates Mueller paid Turner Logic $3 million to develop software for pinball (!).
I don't know the source of that info. Not saying it is correct or not. I will note that last hearing she unintentionally introduced the incorrect idea that Robert owned the San Antonio hq building (which he did / does not).
Thats some really good money for the receiver wow
Quoted from greatwichjohn:The best (or not) & the past 2 companies I was talking to have not joined pinball production in the USA. This was back when Deeproot Pinball was still a go. Chris Turner has not been in contact with me.
We better all start posting about all the companies not seeking our expertise and assistance. Bonus points for talking about being drunk. And broke.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I have yet to be contacted by Chris Turner.
I wish he would reach out to me so I could tell him to go away.
Capcom Pinball still isn't getting back to me for some reason...
Quoted from Inside:What is blacked out here?! Pinside posters demand to know.
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The Operating Agreement described Mueller as an amazing, brilliant, wholesome, honest, groundbreaking, death-defying, innovative, handsome, humble, stoic, thoughtful, salt of the earth leader, man, and father.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Some of the exhibits are too interesting to excerpt and just need to be highlighted in full. One of these is the CYA while not poking the litigious bear resignation letter to Robert from a deeproot financial advisor.
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This is the best batch of information in quite some time. Resignation letters calling him out, the old website, the SEC getting after it....
Quoted from CLEllison:Sort of off topic, but what happened to JPOP? I know the Ben Heck drama, and then Zidware drama and finally deeppoop saga.
Is that guy blacklisted in the pinball world now? It's quite sad, the guy really added a unique "to him" spin to this hobby. I was seriously waiting on the Alice in Wonderland pin. That is one CLASSIC title aching to be made from an original design. Zombie Yeti artwork? Yes!
This is not the JPOP fan thread bro...
Quoted from CrazyLevi:If someone is ever asking you for money, and uses the words "disruption/disruptor/etc," run the other way way.
He always was a clown who loved his bullshit buzzwords, and boy did some folks around here eat it up.
Lean and agile!
He was watching Silicon Valley on HBO and Theranos on CNBC and decided that pinball=TECH... boom! we have derproot
Quoted from mbeardsley:In the beginning of all this, I just thought he was stupid, then I realized he was a crook, now I see that he was actually a stupid crook.
pasted_image (resized).jpegQuoted from Beechwood:Please wear a "Pinball is hard!" t-shirt
Pretty sure you gotta at least bump it up to a hoodie for federal court
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Midlothian, TX