Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:Patience. Rest up for pintastic.
They're only 30 mins from me, been thinking of dropping in lol
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Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:Patience. Rest up for pintastic.
They're only 30 mins from me, been thinking of dropping in lol
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:Do it. Dress up as a fire marshal and go in for inspection.
Gonna ask for a job, them seem to need help lol
Quoted from Richthofen:LOOK OVER HERE, ART!
The hard part about manufacturing pinball is not creating art. Jpop created years and years worth of art (or paid others to do so!) No pinball machine was ever held up from shipping because they couldn't get the art done / right.
The reason I am so pessimistic on deeproot is because they're following almost all the same formulas as the other pinball failures.
They all had a carnival barker/salesperson hyping the shit out of people (Jpop, Barry and Jap, Andrew Highway, now Robert)
They all promised the moon, and shit all over everything currently being made
They're doing this whole deal with other people's money (preorders in the case of the above mentioned, some weird fund management thing with Robert)
They spent that money on stuff that isn't core to their business for 'marketing' (dutch pinball's famous parties, and deeproot pinball sponsoring every pinball tournament from here to kingdom come)
The upstarts that have make it to capture a very small part of the market worked lean and kept their mouths mostly shut until they had something to show (Spooky, possibly Suncoast? No idea if Suncoast is viable or if their game is gonna be any good).
Let's be real, in what way is Deeproot going to 'innovate' such that they can create a better pinball machine than Stern can at a cheaper price? Deeproot is still manufacturing in the USA, still hand assembling the games, still paying expensive software developers and game designers and graphic designers. Oh but they're only selling to US customers so their total addressable market is 50% of what Stern's is. I know the last 10 years of delusionally low interest rates has clouded everyone's judgement over what is a viable business and what is not, but how will Deeproot accomplish this 'better game at a lower cost'?
Robert Mueller is on record more than once saying they won't do pre orders or deposits, I think that's refreshing! I can totally get why they aren't revealing they're cards, can't say I blame them, STERN has been copycating since 1977! First with Bally, then with Williams system 11, they milked that system all the way to 1997! Frankly they are still using the same philosophy they've had since the 90s ,, license rinse repeat, stern complains about profit margins, all the while raising pin prices every yr , there is always a more productive way to achieve things, let's see what Deeproot has before we dismiss them
At least Deeproot is making things right for those who invested, I personally would be happy knowing someone stepped up to the plate, I respect that!
Quoted from frolic:[quoted image]
Gave you Kawhai Leonard, you won your first NBA title, We are like Santa clause!
Quoted from CLEllison:Some what but not the modular mechs. IIRC the Star Wars release did so horribly and was their demise so in essence RFM release couldnt save them. William's never got the chance to prove/disprove the kit route is the way to go.
I'd like to clear up a few things
Williams cut bait with pinball because Casinos were buying in such large volume and profit margins were WAY bigger, with less overhead machines were less costly to build , the pin2k was a disaster financially , but Williams saw what could be done with slots because of it
Next time you go to a casino look who made those themed slots
Quoted from yaksplat:I just really hope that Deeproot walks away from the Premium, Special, Limited edition garbage money grab. Although i can understand the desire to offer them at a huge markup like all of the other manufacturers do. It'd be nice if you could just order the kits that you want and bolt them on to the base model.
I think I read in an interview where Robert criticized the different levels of prices
deeproot please correct me if I'm wrong.
Also when will you be hiring?
Quoted from RobT:Why tf would anyone criticize this?
I will never understand why some people think that having more choices as a consumer is a bad thing. I like having different models with different features and different price tiers to choose from.
I have bought a Stern pro, premium and LE all in the last 2 years.
I can see your point, a fair point
I think stripping down a pin to meet a price point that folks can stomach has some merit
I think what he was trying to say is they want a full featured pin at a price point everyone can stomach, 12000 for a single pin that's not a boutique (very small run) is not affordable for alot of home buyers
Competition is great!
I love seeing all the new blood, that is what makes innovation happen!
Quoted from o-din:I'm sure their investor team is pleased as well.
Happy customers spend more....
Quoted from djreddog:It’s not a person. It’s part of the playfield. Check the right side of the picture, other PF’s blurred out too.
Did see that before, but your right, looks like 2 standard pf blurred side by side, and a widebody Whitewood with maybe a large area cut out toward lower pf?
Quoted from chad:It would be great if they brought the new games to Pinball Expo, but understand wanting to reveal in their neck of tbe woods first.
Except deeproot isn't going to reveal in San Antonio,, instead I'll have to drive 4hrs....at least the Houston expo will be like a big job fair I suppose....
Quoted from o-din:My dream theme is Sledge Hammer!, and I hope that's one of the second games you have to choose from.
What no Highlander ?
Quoted from o-din:Highlander is a cool movie, but there have been enough fantasy themed games lately, and humor is what is really missing.
What was the last game that had a good sense of humor besides those making them laughing all the way to the bank and at those that think they deserve new playfields ?
No, there have been enough music pins lately,
If we're going to discuss Slede Hammer or Matrix etc.... Why not Highlander?
Quoted from o-din:You just answered your own question. A Highlander would have to have music by Queen and that would make it another music pin with a fantasy theme. Same thing.. But you are free to discuss anything. Noone's holding you back.
There is a reason Medieval Madness is maybe the most beloved game since the DMD era began and it's not that pissed off ugly king on the translite. One major thing sets it apart.
Humor
Touche!
It would have to have Queen!
However, I'm referring to music only theme, but you made my point in calling me out as well, manufacturers usually release a genre we want but not necessarily the theme , they can't please all the people all the time, simply not possible, as much as I think there has been enough music pins made by stern in recent years, if JJP or someone else makes GNR iill strongly consider buying NIB
Quoted from Daditude:I am a pinballer through and through. I love all pinball and this is a great time to be a collector/player.
I wish all the success in the world to deeproot. They are the single most important reason I am going to the Houston pinball and arcade expo.
I will say, however, if they don't show or don't have playable pins...i will be hugely disappointed...probably to the point I will have to give up on them. I'm hoping that is not the case.
They are the Reason I'm going as well, although I'm confident we will be playing Raza for the first time, but if not like you I'll be colossally disappointed!
Quoted from DS_Nadine:They're posting pics and clips...
Just not here.
Why would that be? *rolleyes*
Gee Wally I have no idea...lol
Quoted from toyotaboy:its also possible its still wood but they have a better process. spooky figured out a better way to clear. my guess is there are better water based clearcoats that bite, or perhaps its 2 different clears. one to bite into the wood, and one that adheres to that first clear better (and hardens faster) so you dont have posts smooshing the soft top layer. its not like car manufacturers are clearing the body and waiting a week for it to dry before they finish assembling all the exterior pieces.
No, it's the actual multi clear process
In cars for example, modern cars have water based , and are very thin , Even some are base and clear mixed, traditional base coat -clear coat requires minimum 2coats base and clear, on vintage or high end restorations, I do 4coats, and with clear especially you don't do it all at once, it needs time to cure,
Companies like stern are always looking at the bottom line, so a multi stage muti clear setup is costly, and production schedules are demanding
But if deeproot is reading, I have experience...
Quoted from toyotaboy:just don't put on 35 coats of clear
My rule of thumb , 2 on modern, 4 on classic
Quoted from greenhornet:[quoted image]
Should I feel bad that my first thought when I saw this pic was to shake the hell out of it?
Quoted from o-din:Back on track![quoted image]
They aren't making Sledgehammer lol
Quoted from o-din:How would you know?
From where I'm sitting they haven't made anything yet. Except a few drawings like girls in my kindergarten class used to do.
Agreed, that style of artwork wouldn't work on SH ...besides I'm not aware of Jpop being a fan of SH...
I was kidding ya you know...
Quoted from o-din:I'm hoping Sledge is a Barry Oursler or Dennis Nordman game.
One pin I could see working with that style of art, Back to the Future, based on the tell tale game art, but using the movie sequences and voices.....I'd like to see that actually
Quoted from o-din:Interesting how during the lean years, they were able to put out a better product than now during this boom. Perhaps they had to to stay alive.
And I'm wondering when deeproot is going to show some art beyond these sketches that will actually sell pinball games.
November 15th would be a guess
Quoted from beatmaster:i thought i was the only one. trap the ball, control it... something.
it's like when you have people over playing pinball for the first time, both flipper.... both flipper, drives me crazy.
I played 3 games with a top 40 player, his scores were pretty crazy , my highest score was 5500, his lowest was 17000, this is a very low scoring pin, watching him handling the 6(I think) ball multi ball stopping, cradling, etc was awesome, also I spoke with all the engineers at length, they were VERY receptive to feedback, I personally am looking forward to March
Quoted from Fulltilt:DAMN.... I agree with you Levi....
I had nice long conversations with the DR eng team
Played many games, they were pretty straight forward with what they could say, at one point they we're fixing an issue and had the playfield pulled out, not vertical, and I can tell you from the little I saw, there's alot going on underneath...
I believe they will address our concerns
And the flippers power was turned down,
Personally, I think they knock it out of the park at TPF
Quoted from TreyBo69:The biggest thing deeproot screwed up was revealing this prototype the way they did.
Now we have crummy cell phone footage (no offense, thanks for sharing), a lot of people heavily dissecting a prototype, and the first impression for many in the core market has been made and it was underwhelming to say the least. Now it’s endless speculation about the price of a retail product based on an working prototype with poor messaging.
I get they needed feedback and some location testing, but there are better ways to do it.
Based on feedback at the show by those who played it, the response has been waaaay more positive than negative, top 100 players liked it even if it isn't finished, I think it's hard based on those videos for those NOT in attendance to get a Real feel , they are holding back on purpose that was made clear, TPF will scream volumes
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I think people are expecting the production model to be wildly different than the PROTOTYPE.
Could be because I had time on this pin and and face to face conversation with the engineers....
Quoted from razorsedge:Looks more like stern will be the First to go under with their super low budget, cardboard quality builds, and rediculously inflated prices, from what I have experienced. If stern really have no margin on pro's then they are very bad at running a cost effective manufacturing bussiness. But, I think they probably do manufacture cost effectively. In my opinion it is more likely they just claim there is no profit margin on pros, because obviously it would be a super bad look if everyone knew just how much they are getting fleeced and ripped off. Keep taking more and more out, as material and build quality continues to plumet. While the price blows out more and more to provide ever increasing profit margins for wealthy greedy investors. Gotta love capitalism, I suppose.
In my opinion Stern is on the way out mate, they are complacent... I am not the only one whom will never buy another NIB stern. There are more and more of us with every passing day. If Deeproot is even half successful, that will only be an increasing trend.
Agreed!
If there is one reason why Stern's profit margin is as low as Gary says it's because they License EVERY pin they produce, when you have to pay a 3rd party to use their IP, your already losing profit, and quality/coding/extras all suffer
If DR can create original themes and control production costs then they have won half the battle already...
Quoted from frolic:I did a bit of internet sleuthing and there seems to be like zero anything going on promoting this. This thread is as good as it gets, which is sad. This is the culmination of years and millions of dollars.
Deeprootstudios twitter (74 followers) last post was August 2019.
As much as Robert shits on Pinside, you remove this thread and there is NO ONE talking about the big launch, of a game we've already seen (that no one talks about).
Sure seems like it, I requested access to the VIP event, only to get an email stating only for Media...
Hell ive been supportive , and I'm a local Tech,
Really disappointing Deeproot!
Quoted from JodyG:Start a 5 minute podcast on TPN...now you're media!
Nah, I have actual pinballs to work on...
Quoted from LTG:I'm in. Time to bring back Talk Pinball !
LTG : )
LTG
I don't need to be Media to be excited and promote their product, I've been vocal with them in the past, just seemed like condescending...
Quoted from Extraballz:I see the new Deeproot reveal happening during the summer where they will have 3-5 titles ready for purchase.
Hopefully, still looking for job postings for manufacturing side...
Quoted from toyotaboy:Listened to k-show. Summary:
* Covid shutdown china supply chain, had to re-shop for parts domestically for higher cost
* Boards for 15 games JUST came in from local supplier
* Were going to see multiple versions of RAZA
* They were going to have a physical version of 3d space cadet, but had to retheme because nobody from EA games and microsoft wanted to deal with the license. It's going to have hollywood CGI graphics, and the plan is to release that in 2021
* First RAZA's would have been delivered early April
* RAZA was never meant to be launch title. They don't want to clog production, want to move onto the next game. Robert will be upset if he has to make more than 500 of them.
* Sales Chain - direct sales is cheaper (domestically). International - distribution partners
* How much has changed on RAZA since houston show? Ramp has been adjusted (not as steep). Code had to be adjusted because of it. Playfield and cabinet art changed. There will be 4 art packages (2 space themed, two nuclear green).
* 6-8 modes programmed
* Robert sometimes loses passion working on multi-industry for 2.5 years now. Gets re-invigorated everytime he plays RAZA because he's proud of what they were able to create from scratch.
* Respects Gerry from multimorphic for pushing the envelope
* JPOP has other games he's working on besides alice in wonderland and magic girl that are less complex that will likely come out first
* Dennis Nordman left in December. He had several titles he was working on. Robert won't talk about the departure.
* Robert said before covid-19 he would have been able to put out 9 titles a year. Thinks all manufacturers are going to be pulling back on sales
* Team ready to turn on production at a moments notice.
* The person that posted about deeproot on here has been dealt with legally (hence the retraction)
* Streaming not a good way to reveal games. Needs to be hands on
* JPOP is good at conceptualizing a concept and prototype a layout without spending a lot of money
* Barry is a workforce, could make a table every week if he wanted to.
* Dennis Nordman worked remotely in Chicago and only came down on occasion.. he develops a general layout and let's others fill in the blanks
* Robert originally had the hot wheels license, Jon Norris had an amazing layout for this theme. Robert is working on a license that's hotter and harder to get than harry potter that this layout is going to be used for
* There's 5 different areas with coding (narrative scripts), translated by steve bowden, then goes to allison and matt that scripts the code, then the code goes through an engine, then the unity frontend GUI is done by a separate studio.
* RAZA never leaves the 2 office locations, not even for Bowden.[quoted image]
I VERY seriously Doubt they could get production up an running in 5hrs......that requires line workers!
Quoted from iceman44:Looks like it’s not a victory for the peasants yet!
Great to see all the jobs and opportunity created along with some hopefully great pins
Here’s hoping DR makes their rich arrogant investors a shit load of $$$!
What jobs, I've been waiting for job announcements since November when they told me where and when to look, I have it set to notify me, so far ... nothing
I've not been around much recently due to health reasons , and while I would love to be able to read through the 100+ pages since March, I read the past few
So, the promise to bring an innovative product to market cheaper than stern without taking pre-order money was......bs
I live 35mins from the factory, wasn't allowed to the factory tour/press release, and after being approached about employment never offered anything
Today I went to the site, and to see stern pro pricing for the "arcade " model, and stern LE pricing on the upscale
My support is there in the sense I hope they make it, however I'm OUT on Deeproot as my first NIB,
Some may downvote me for saying this, but I'm really disappointed they became the SELLOUTS they hate
Quoted from Jarson:I just placed my order and it was number #100025
What's your order #?
So your no 25?
25 pre orders in 2 days....
Just want to point out I get a notification Everytime they post position opening ,
They are engineer and senior buyers....90% of the time
I take this to mean they are looking for multiple parts manufacturing relationships to leverage costs and availability
It makes me think parts availability is the main issue
Quoted from TreyBo69:Thanks for sharing. It’s kinda like how the Batman 66 turntable turned out. Maybe a tribute to the rotating face on Python’s BoP?
I wonder what sort of crazy concept drawings will be up for sale at the inevitable bankruptcy auction.
I know at least one guy in attendance that day
Quoted from pinlink:They don't have a production line. Does anyone actually believe that they do?
There is no line currently, there hasn't been a single posting for production Workers
Quoted from benheck:Say what you will about AMH. We did it with near zero budget, our own time and money. Everyone who ordered one got one, it's held its value pretty well and it paid for about 35% of my house (after taxes).
Glad to hear deeproot is spinning up a line. Hopefully they have some very experienced people to manage it.
I applied but doubt I hear from them
Quoted from iceman44:Here is some food for the trolls. Lol
Drove by today after lunch in the area.
I counted 18 cars in the parking lot.
Some people are doing something
8 people interviewing for 1 job?
Quoted from TreyBo69:I think that is borderline harassment. Also not necessary
paging dc2010
Have you heard anything back from applying? I wouldn't be surprised if deeproot has them sign a NDA or whatever if they get a job, but I am curious.
LMMFAO!
No, nothing!
They put the job posting up a total of 3 times, the last of which was the how many cars in the parking lot post ..
It's a fact there is no assembly Line!
This companies priorities are so far out of wack , totally in over their Heads, I absolutely hope they turn it around. They were/are so focused on gimmicks an artsy fartsy bs they forgot they need to boring and mundane to actually build something .
Boggles the mind, how a person/company places a fing piece of paper above actual physical (and mental) ABILITY
Had they actually brought me in I would've lit a fire !!!!
But to reiterate the answer to your question. No I wasn't even contacted
Quoted from frolic:These things can only ship with 100.00% of parts.
The issue is they don't have any purchasers worth a damn!
It is literally someone's job to source parts suppliers
And since this company values degrees over experience it's no surprise they have issues
Pandemic or not this isn't something they just realized they need to have, it's gross incompetence not to have multiple suppliers setup for every type of part needed
Case in point, dale,vishay,babcock,cherry all produced dmds bitd, why? Because williams,bally, gottlieb capcom, etc all used them and demand was high
Quoted from toyotaboy:If you don't have the employees on staff that can tackle these issues (or tell you no we can't manufacture at that volume) you are going to make many bad assumptions and fail hard.
They don't have the employees!
Quoted from Dr_Gonzo:Imagine locking a ball and having to watch an ad before playing again
Only thing worse would be waiting for that ad to load
Quoted from Makakka:That’s not a controversial hottake esp not with the mellow „zidware customers need to get full“ in the end. A sharp take would have been to let every customer lose every penny as example to not invest and trust in Jpop/deeproot. At least you were emotional.
I’m also emotional on Jpop.
Jpop does not use a computer to design a table. He dwizzles his finger in the air to make the shots flow. Fantastic. That’s art.
Jpop needs a nasty impressario like RM to shine. Like some of the best soccer players have the most obnoxious managers.
Jpop wants and needs a negative hateful climate where his art will push through and overcomes overcomes so you roll over the carpet in joy and enlightenment.
Will buy the whole Jpop tryptichon = RAZA xtra with all xtras (also pinpot) locked in day/minute 1, most xpensive featurefull AIW and MG as soon as order banks open. I lost hope in 2016 the world ever sees one of those would have paid for a tour ticket through JPops workshop like some zidware customers enjoyed with all swhizzle glitzy shine and bubble I can tell my grandchildren of.
Jpop has always been propped up by others more talented....
Man I really hope everyone gets their pin
But if/when this blows up, I'll be looking for the auction notice
At least there won't be alot of production people out of work
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Any UK folks looking to buy, buy, buy?
https://pinballbazaar.co.uk/product/retro-atomic-zombie-adventureland-arcade-edition-pinball-machine/
Unfortunately, you missed the boat on the xtra
https://pinballbazaar.co.uk/product/retro-atomic-zombie-adventureland-xtra-edition-pinball-machine/
Blessing in disguise?
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