deeproot Pinball thread

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#9456 3 years ago

cpr9999

Quoted from DaveH:
Deeproot could cure that in 2 seconds. However, instead, we have a riddle of a tease of part of a date with a unexplained graphic of a hulk that might fill in more in the future to lead us towards the final riddle, or more appropriately the next riddle. So to sum that up, Deeproot has chosen to not tell us anything. So this thread will continue to wander, which is directly on the topic Deeproot has chosen.

Isn’t the fist from the video / game - guy with antennas on his head?
5B9EDDA9-9B81-4C6E-B85A-85E91AD04E87 (resized).jpeg8F09BD82-791A-4B08-BA66-AD0C7C1EEF32 (resized).jpeg

0E1CBBA9-1DB5-468B-85C5-44BA59FA5F95 (resized).jpeg

C90FF206-3015-4B15-AB03-A40DCA022F32 (resized).jpeg

E4DC3095-7766-47A6-B1A2-F58DBD5C2366 (resized).jpeg

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#9595 3 years ago

JIM

Is the new playfield technology DR is planning on using the same as Haggis pinball developed? See first video on their playfield technology, see 2nd video on 3 playfield options they have - cool technology!

https://m.facebook.com/HaggisPinball/videos/325728361718844/

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#9600 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
Would it really blow minds?
Stern has been doing this 5 times a year for a decade.

3 cornerstones a year. Rest don’t count.

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#9605 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
Why not? Stern is still the one who builds the contract games.

Boutique games - not what they are known for.

When we compare AP, Spooky, JJP and say they don’t compare to the Stern manufacturing machine we are really talking about “the big high volume manufacturing machine”.

No one is in Stern’s league today.

Of course that doesn’t mean boutique manufacturers can’t innovate or sell a few machines occasionally.

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#9882 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from frolic:
Most of those people (myself included) are listed in the Zidware bankruptcy and won't be getting anything from deeproot. The deadline to sign on was way back in 2018 when absolutely nothing was shown - another request of faith after so many failed attempts.
So RAZA and all the other zidware original titles will be permanently radioactive since most of those zid customers didn't get anything.

This reminds me of Lebowski.

I don’t think most new Lebowski buyers put a ton of stock in what happened to EAs (as long as Cointaker protects the new people’s money). Don’t get me wrong I think they want EAs to be made whole - but not stopping them from purchasing TBL. The psychology being used (“justified”) is “buy a TBL and someday EAs will be made whole”.

And Lebowski continues to sell at 12.5k new and $15k+ used market.

With that said - there is a bit difference between both situations.

Ultimately, if a good game, new buyers will buy RAZA regardless of the story.

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#9883 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from mbeardsley:
People here expecting multiple machines at prices of $3500 are out of their minds.
I believe we will just see a slightly-improved RAZA with more code/animations and an adjusted ramp. The pricing will be just below that of a Stern Premium (but they will talk about what a great "value" this is). Their big "innovation" will be that you can order it with a choice of armor colors, even though most of those choices will look bad with the colors of the actual machine.
There will also be a bunch of vague talk about "lots of other amazing titles" coming "soon", maybe with some pictures of artwork for those machines.
If you're lucky, they will give a definitive shipping date for RAZA, though I wouldn't be surprised if they simply say it will be "very soon".

I agree - to much hype. Keep it simple.
Improved RAZA for $6350!

Like it buy it. And get in waiting line.
New titles year down road, if in business (assuming they don’t have to give away free ones to previous company buyers. Maybe discount).

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#10786 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Coz:
Judging by the fingerprints, I assume this is a touch screen?? Or is it reflections? What are your thoughts?
[quoted image]

Yes looks like reflections if I look at the stainless apron in front of it. Probably still a display though.

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#12773 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
hey guys any news? WHen is RAZA shipping?

Soon, after the next reveal. Approximately 2...yrs

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#13035 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from NoQuarters:
Haiku #3
Deeproot in Deep poop
Zidware Circus repeated
Shipping No Pin ball

Ok here’s one back John:

Haiku #1
Refreshing and innovative NOT
The world welcomes me NOT
Pinball is easy NOT

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#13036 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

One more to consider:
Haiku #2

Simple and innovative for all
A pinball voyage for the ages
A crash of historical proportions

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#13038 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

My last one....Haiku 3

Eat, sleep, play pinball
Design, engineer, manufacturer pinball
Start, stop, do over again & again

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#13336 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from noitbe1:
It seems that the main toy shake and that’s about it and then... we have « cyclone » wheel.
You’re right, I lowered my expectations anyhow but it’s even below what I was expecting for that.
Maybe, the lack of toys is a cost saving for having a costly pinbar... which I’m not a fan.

Magnets under playfield? Someone said 3.

If so kind of like guardians.

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#13358 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from dgarrett:
This game looks boring as hell. After all the design hype and team work, this is all they have? Yuck. The right half of the playfield is pretty much blocked by stuff. Shots look extremely poorly thought out. Don't see any way to identify, shoot, or complete modes. May be there is more to come on modes - but come on - this is terrible!

Pinball rule #1.

Need to actually play it - to make decision. So many people have said game looks great but it sucks OR just the opposite too!!

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#13572 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Let’s face it pinballers SAAS (software as a service) is here to stay! Profits & margins are fantastic for companies.

It is the money grab from all industries right now - they are finding ways to take advantage of it. Started with cell phone and video games. It is spreading fast (Microsoft products) and is moving into industrial companies now too.

Bottom line - you can say NO not interested and I won’t buy a machine. Guess you are saying you will be finding another hobby. You say buy used - good luck - these companies will do the same for used assets.
(How many people spoke with their wallets on playfield issues, etc — not many sales are up!!)

It is a matter of time. As internet capabilities are built into our pinball machines these companies will “enable” software services. More code, special modes, better special topper interaction - and you WILL pay per use/upgrade OR for a 1yr subscription.

I personally don’t like it - but I am aware it is happening everywhere and growing quickly. Heck I even personally witness people on Pinside saying let’s “pool our money” to get more code on games.

Reality sucks - but you will get used to it.
(FYI don’t shoot the messenger - just informing people).

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#13580 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from sven:
That's a question I thought of as well (not a very important one to me, for I don't intend to buy a DR game (though that can change))

Coming to all manufacturers soon - don’t think just DR

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#13597 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Pinballs:
Learnings-
General: Don't buy a Net-connected pin.
Specific: Avoid Deeproot. More like a deep rogering...

In near future every new pin will be Net-connected for updates etc.

Get on board folks.

The very few Pinsiders will leave the industry - most will concede. The next shiny object will come and they will reason the purchase. Human nature. Look at the example above - how many people are running old version of Office? When that Pinsiders PC dies they will update!

Question is .... is how far will these companies go? How big subscription price will be paid? They will start small and increase.

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#13613 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
I love how when Stern tries to sell an aftermarket light kit, or a topper
That comes with a dumb “dlc” mode the peasants riot...
But now when deep root suggests their entire model for profit is gonna be thousands of dollars of annual virtual “add ons” it’s all “hey it’s the way if the future! Get on board!”
Now that the hilarious deep root scam has finally been revealed in full, it’s pretty obvious they are done. Nobody is gonna get “on board” with this nonsense.
I’m sure they’ll sell a handful of games to people who are just buying to “own the stern fanboys” but it’s pretty clear the jig is up.
This company will be out of business very shortly.
This is the DIVX of pinball and it’ll be just as successful.

My comments are less about DR. They can go belly up for all I care. I just see the pinball industry going in this direction. Frankly, there are many other industries who have been doing this for some time - that’s all. Also didn’t say I like it either- but reality is there.

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#13637 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Gomez- Stern about year - I have read it multiple places - internet connectivity is coming to pinball (all the good & bad) - just a matter of when.

Article:

https://www.fastcompany.com/90369134/inside-the-race-to-finally-bring-pinball-into-the-internet-era

Part of Article.....

THE PINBALL PLATFORM WAR
Despite all the talk of pinball disconnecting us from our screens, Stern has been interested in internet connectivity as well. But as a self-funded company that almost went out of business during the 2008 economic recession, Stern had to be judicious about its investments.

“There isn’t any magical place in the sky where money falls out to do R&D,” Gomez says. “Growing the business of the company is the thing that sustains new technology initiatives, new product design initiatives, new evolutions for the product.”

Now, Stern is ready to tackle internet connectivity in earnest. The company designed its most recent pinball system, called Spike, to support online features through an add-on module, and plans to roll out some of those capabilities later this year. While Gomez is cagey about the details, he says it’s a “significant” offering, and the broad strokes sound similar to what Scorbit is doing, with social features for players and remote monitoring for operators.

“I can’t speak to what [Scorbit is] doing, or how they’re doing it,” he says. “But it doesn’t make any sense that you would take a new Stern pinball machine and apply their stuff to it, because our infrastructure’s going to be fairly robust and very functional.”

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#13638 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

And another point - Stern & others are trying to grow there market with younger customers (not just with all us old guys).

Have fun reading.....

https://gadvending.com/the-surprising-secrets-to-making-money-with-pinball-machines-with-a-younger-audience/

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#13755 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Dang this thread is nasty to DR.

They should just fold now and this bitch thread would go away.

Not a DR fan but hell a new pinball start up isn’t a bad thing.

People were / are nasty to Dutch Pinball but glad they are trying to make it and make it right.

Anyone have a positive outlook these days?

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#13764 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Roostking:
You put your $$$ first or get in line for a TBL at 12500.

Owned TBL, sell mods for it and help people support it. Fantastic game.

Oh yeah, sold it and in line for another!!

People not considering owning are definitely missing out.

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#13766 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Roostking:
So you got in early and arent still waiting, 5 years later. Made $$$, thats cool man, you were the lucky one of 40 or so.

I was in second run of 40. With that said DP has made a bunch more and have lots of orders, upgrading factory and plan to make EAs whole. Going slowly; however, I believe they are doing it right this time.

I believe they already have ideas for another pinball (& they now are growing); but are sticking to the plan to make EAs whole. They need to do this and then people will jump into their next hit machine.

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#13787 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:
Yeah, my Spotify subscription is never going to leave, and its $10 a month for unlimited music. I know that is way too much, but it is tolerable for now. Patreon for pinball podcasts costs $6 a month. Monthly life alert service for the mother-in-law is $24 a month. That is my limit of subscriptions - $40 a month, and fortunately - no car payments nor house payments. So would I like to jump to $90 a month? No way, because that feels like a partial car payment. Well no way unless the pinball machine was free

No cell phone or internet??

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#13799 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from BallPin:
True, My router now has, one nest thermostat, camera security system, two ring doorbells, gaming console, 4 computers, couple laptops, JJP GnR, couple cell phones, couple ipads, television, garage door opener, vehicle while in garage uses my internet, Amazon lights, couple echos, printer, and there are at least 3 more items I'm forgetting. I really don't know how much more my router can handle.

Welcome to the future...NOW.... “internet of things”.....

If they can do it for right cost...it is going on the net.......you will be tracked by usage of those devices.... just install the chip in me.....NOoooooo

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#14021 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Website is operational - just went in to place order to try it out - it is running

E65A8044-2FD5-48D6-938F-24EC52BE3071 (resized).png

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#14208 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from halflip87:
I’m about 20 minutes in and this is a great interview already. Jonathan and Martin do a good job trying to hold Robert’s feet to the fire. My favorite part is when Robert is asked why they’re taking preorder money when they said they wouldn’t. He essentially answers that he said that a long time ago when he didn’t know what he was talking about. Words have consequences, buddy!
-Doug

“Words have consequences” —>Not with pinball companies!

I remember buying 1 of 500 limited run pinballs from Stern when Stern increased their “limited run” for money grab adding 100 more machines. (Of course other manufacturers have done the same.). The director of marketing pointed me to some fine print that they have the right to change this and other stuff.

From then on I trust none of these guys. Trust through verification, which is sad!

What I have found out is no matter which pinball company & whatever problems they have; they communicate for shit. Some much worse than others.

The worst point is because there are so many new pinball people to the hobby it is BUY, BUY, BUY...sight unseen. No matter what the issue is quality, delivery keep buying - not good for hobby in long run.

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#14360 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from kermit24:
Isn’t DP now just Barry and a couple helpers making a game a day?

Nope, moved out small warehouse now into decent manufacturing building.

Read on...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-lebowski-official-club-thread/page/33#post-5960897

Views of the new manufacturing floor:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-lebowski-preorder-club/page/250#post-5984783

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#14393 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Mr68:
Pinball Brothers is making it. Several improvements from the original game from what I'm hearing.
Facebook Link: https://www.facebook.com/pinballbrothers

My understanding is they are not “making it” - no factory at PB. They are redesigning parts of it and contract manufacturer is making it.

Not as much controversy on this one but some shady shit going on there too. You guys should be torching that thread too.

Or is it because it is Aliens theme?

Link provided to go torch:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-cgc-going-to-manufacture-alien-pinball/page/24#post-5999642

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#14439 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from woodworker:
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland was LITERALLY Ben Heck's Zombie Adventureland:
[quoted image]

Looks just like that picture.

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#14503 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from NoQuarters:
Not improved much. Unless asking for deposits $ with no production line is an improvement. Well, maybe in their case about as improved as it can get I suppose.

Common John - I know you are in for a Food Truck, put it right next to Octoberfest.

Food and Beer!

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#14579 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from kermit24:
Sku management is a real problem here. Why doesn’t Stern offer factory customizable pinball machines? Because it’s not scalable. Sell accessories to the end user after the fact to let them do what they want. All these endless options are not a good idea to achieve scale. Look at Spooky, they have option sheets literally taped to each game that the line needs to follow closely. If they didn’t have that they would be pumping games out quicker. They charge like $10 for target decals. As an add on. Just dumb.

I hope DR isn’t comparing themselves to Stern - not a good business plan in the near term. They should understand what parts make AP, Spooky, DP and maybe JJP successful and they should follow. (Sounds like Pinball Brothers too).

Problem in a real down turn all these companies will have difficulty staying in business. So everyone enjoy the new highs in pinball now! I would hate to see these companies vaporize down the road cuz Stern will go backwards then.

More companies, more competition, more games, more options = better for us owners!

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#14618 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from wrb1977:
In on a RAZA Arcade Edition...order #100087!
I’m definitely excited but at the same time I’m not naive and fully understand and accept the risks involved with supporting them. I exchanged a few more emails with deeproot and feel comfortable with my decision to go with the 10% deposit option. I’m hoping it all works out...time will tell!

I wonder if your order number means 87 people ordered?

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#14717 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from fastpinball:
Oh no. If that is true, they need to sort that out. Not everyone has a convenient garage or other space to safely unbox a game in. Sure, you could unbox outdoors, but what do you do when it is raining?
PinTent? PinBrella?
Aaron
FAST Pinball

Only a bunch of PinDummies would do that! Would you is the question?

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#14724 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from JimWilks:
This ^ Is exactly what DR is all about. I really wish them the best.

Quoted from ShinyNick:
Robert just setup the website to deal with the credits for the Zidware claimants like me - I just confirmed my order for an Xtra, order # 100136... Looking forward to getting a game that I paid for eight years ago!!

100136 = up to 136 games.
Looks like they are doing better than people thought for RAZA.

That’s good, next up is manufacturing. Following this thread to see how this goes.....

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#14744 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Tranquilize:
Don't you have anything better to do than circle jerk?
The game may be great, and it may suck. They may ship and they may not. There are clear red flags that you clearly want to ignore. Fine. But you're going to hear them, like it or not.
If you want an echo chamber, go to your beloved pre order thread.

I guess it is a forum - bash to your heart’s content. My view - say your view good/bad/etc. Hyping on it (either way) just gets old.

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#14768 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from kermit24:
First, deeproot should scrap “The Who” as it will be absolutely dreadful. No one gives two fucks for that band.

Agree. All these bands LZ, The Who, etc.
Please no more bands for a long time!

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#14793 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Tomass:
But didn't you get burned thrice? No need to call others a fool.

Do tell, we need to see how smart he is letting us know what to do?

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#14805 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Mr68:
I found it concerning to read that to complete the sale for RAZA, customers have to DocuSign a contract giving Deeproot "blanket indemnity".
I didn't read it because it's only listed in the buyers agreement and not on their webpage. But Pinsider Nysbadmk8, who backed out of the sale posted:

Later in the thread he posted in reply:

Do as you wish but you guys have some new red flags to unpack in all of that.

Yup - thanks for reposting.
Could someone repost again?

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#14814 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Warzard:
I'm not saying everything is right from DR nor there is not a long history. There was NDAs, yes, look stupid, ok... so what?
Ben worked with Jpop 10 years ago. It didn't worked out... ok
JPop has failed many projects and people, yes.... we got that after around 400000 posts about it.
They didn't show any manufacture pics... OK ... they just need to deliver... that's it....
This is a new company, to build new pins. Why this broken records of critics? If they do release/produce those pins, what you guys will say? this is crap and so on....?
I mean, if you put all the critics aside, the pin itself look really decent, has shiny arts, you can save some money with modules, at least try something with its pinbar. I haven't seen as much hate with other Stern titles with no innovation at all.
We should encourage the risk, not blame all of them. At least it doesn't deserve that much hate before it's even released. Just a question, if they do release the pins and the others on time and the pins are good, do you guys will fill a bit of remorse?

I am following the threads and not an investor - but dam I would hate to work with some of these guys OR be their kid - Always negative.

Let’s try this going forward - for every 5 deficiencies point out 1 positive. At least we would know you prescribe to MORE pinball is better than NO pinball!

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#14818 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from mbwalker:
I mentioned before, given the low numbers they were shooting for (i.e. limited run), I'm thinking these will likely be built in the lab by the engineers. Boutique build. Can they pull it off? Yeah, probably at low quantities if they have the parts. Hundreds? No, that would require a production run w/a real manufacturing floor/processes.

They will make over 200 if they have the cash, parts.

Orders ~160 already.

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#14821 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
You guys really think the plan is to just hand build these things in the garage?
If so At what point do they build an actual production line? Food Truck?

I think at 200 you need a simple production line with line operators and engineers constantly involved.

Does that production line need to be the same as a Stern line NO. Stern makes high volume, big costs and big profits. To them line efficiency is important. To DR barebones is needed right now to produce the low volume orders.

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#14824 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from NoQuarters:
They may hand build 30-40 of these for zidware compensation - they might pull that off. Beyond that who knows. I would not expect much.
Without a real production line they are toast.
Sorry @ cpr9999 - I don't have a positive other than maybe some zidware guys might sorta have a half a chance to be made whole.

Like it NoQuarters

I need to move over to the Aliens thread as I am investing in that startup!!

I wish DR success and the people that put in their down payments. However, their order quantity would have been higher if they did what PB & DP did - have the distributor hold the cash until game is ready to ship.

(See what I did there .... 1 good 1 critical comment - I call that productive. I guess that is the engineer in me

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#14826 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from jellikit:
Here is a picture of the factory during a tour.
[quoted image]
Ooops, wrong company.

Glad you seen that production like cuz they don’t exist, they got run over on the highway!

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#14830 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from benheck:
I'll give Andrew this - he at least shipped a few hundred games and "made a go of it" - look how fast his hair turned white. That's not from lack of effort. I'm curious to see how much Pinball Bros have simplified his electronics.
RE: production. Say they sell 300. A small group of people could build them but it would take YEARS (that's how Spooky started, or see DP now, good for them BTW)
So assuming they get 200-300 orders and want them all done in spring (haha right) they're going to need a line. Questions them become:
1) How long to train and spool up the line?
2) Did they order the max # of parts (300) ahead of time? What's the vendor delay if they're waiting for final numbers?
3) Do they have another game ready when RAZA is done to keep the line moving? Or do they have to fire, hire and re-train, slowing down the process for Game #2?

Agree - all valid questions for DR....and DP....and PB. Not sure where any of them are going long term. Time will tell. However, I am rooting for all 3 as I think more pinball is better for the community. Heck JJP, AP, Spooky all came up similarly and still struggle today (although they have taken it farther...and here is wishing them more success!)

Also, for all 3 (DR/DP/PB), if you ordered games from them they will not come in weeks it will be many, many months. If you have patience and these companies have a few things go their way you will have a rare (hopefully fun) pinball machine (not sure of the worth...that is always debatable).

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#14870 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

K

#14892 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from hank527:
Any excuses. Anything but making pinball. Where’s the factory and pictures of games in production? This is a complete joke. Preorder funding yet again.

They will definitely need a line now... up to 186 in pre-order thread

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#14904 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

There is some faith out there - up to 198!

So they may push 250-300 before closing out by Dec 30th.

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#14917 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Mbecker:
If there’s still 200 people willing to throw money at a unproven new company that’s pretty much only talked shit for years now about their competition and how great they are going to be only to continually fail and blow self-laid timelines out of the water and backpedal and spend millions now to develop a couple prototype games over many years....
I’m wondering if preorder really is dead or could make a revival?!? Are peoples memories just terrible? Are people hoping against odds for something good to come out of this year? Is this hedging bets that value will go up due to limited supply? Fomo in case it turns out to be a good game?
200 games.. I say 0% chance that everyone has theirs by the end of 2021... especially with all the custom options. It almost makes it impossible to build except by the engineers, 1 by 1, which makes sense knowing Jpop is directing some stuff there. That probably still seems like a great idea to him. But fail or succeed as a company, I’m not rooting either way just blown away that people seem to be so starstruck by this game that they need to own it sight unseen. It’s like all logic is set aside. I’m just not seeing what’s so great here? It’s got some nice art, and a cool lifting glass and a pinbar. Great.
I hope it exceeds everyone’s expectations and they aren’t building these 200 or so still in 2023.. we shall see.

I have nothing vested in this pinball or DR.
However, I think most startups operate this way - very few that have cash to blow up front. If I was investing in this pinball I would want a distributor to hold my money and pay DR when game ships like Alien or TBL. However that is not the case.

Also, I understand people are so frustrated with Jpop that they equate DR to Jpop / Zidware. Last I checked there was a lot more people than Jpop at DR who have invested time & effort into pinball. For those people we should applaud their efforts.

I am also smart enough to know the road ahead on manufacturing is not easy (as I have a lot of experience) here. However it is not mission impossible. It requires discipline, bit know how and time plus some good manufacturing associates & steady flow of parts. Will DR get there week 1 month 1 - NO. But can they be humming by 3 to 4 months in yes. Will they get all these games built in the next 12 months - probably not, but DR needs to see it through.

To me the stake of their reputation and frankly the future of the company now depend on this discipline & performance. I am routing for their success - to me they are not Zidware. More pinball is good.

I say good luck!

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#14925 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Mr68:
Fine, take Zidware and Jpop out of the equation. Based solely on Deeproot's history and performance so far, what is their reputation today?

Nothing yet - as I said they need to perform first. If no performance - no company no reputation. They are done.

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#14926 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from aeneas:
Anyway thinking about their business model and trying to make sense of it, I'll write here my thoughts and wonder which scenario will happen
The scenario that will happen imo is that games will get made, it will only take a lot longer than most think and will not be an easy path.
It's possible John pulls out a rabbit out of his magic hat and producing the games is outsourced to AP. AP has the line and experience, and had stated in the past they could do contract work ? They've worked together with John in the past, so they know each other.
That would explain why DR doesn't talk about their production line. And if everything is already planned, you could produce games fast and deliver in a few months. That's what Pinball Bros are planning now. That is feasible.
CGC is another option, but I doubt they are involved.. They're busy with their own line of games, Bens game, I doubt they would want to get involved.
However I doubt this path of outsourcing will happen - then we would have heard about the AP contracting already. DR only gives the idea they will produce everything themselves. The relation between AP and John didn't end well, I don't think they want to get involved anymore.
Getting involved for the money is one thing, but DR/JPop don't create many goodwill and more burn bridges. If you get involved with them and something goes wrong (as a subcontractor) it'll be a messy legal end (similar to what happened with DP and Ara), and most people want to avoid this if they can.
Except if DR has some patents that CGC or AP want to use and they'll have no choice but to work together (I believe Gene C did something like this to get his playfields produced ?).
Johns history shows he's also not interested in the producing part. He's a designer. I doubt he's interested in spending hours to rework every part, optimise it for production and talking in detail to a contractor telling how it is best done - like DP has done.
As far as we know, DR didn't have anyone that fits this profile (AP hired someone experienced for this to create Houdini).
Thinking about the DR business model, it doesn't make sense. Because it's not setup or ran as a real manufacturing business.
Stern has a large production line. Their margin is probably low (maybe $1000 on a pro machine) but they make this up in their huge volume.
Spooky started manufacturing small, increased and grew small, but seems to know very well what their costs/profits are and can survive.
JJP started with investments, set up a huge line, and it seems they didn't know well in advance their real production / overhead cost and had to increase prices to stay in business.
Dutch now probably has a very high margin and are laughing each time a game leaves the factory - ok they maybe don't make much profit but the margin must be huge at the price they are selling because they can afford to make extra EA games now. I don't know for what price they expected to launch their next title, I hope it's less because Pinball Bros now shows contact games can be done much cheaper.
Pinball Bros probably also has a good idea what a pinball machine costs if you subcontract it and still want to make a profit.
Making games for $5000 and continue doing this ? If you're not Stern it looks impossible. There was the Nemo machine but that was a very small hobby project and the guy probably did it for the love and didn't pay for all the hours he put in. There was Gene, but he had parts, help, it was a long time ago (prices increased now) and it was a long project.
Hiring people, a huge factory, all the designers for the other games.. ? The numbers don't make sense.
It wouldn't surprise me that Robert at the moment has no idea what all his costs are to produce it (maybe raw material cost, but not total overhead costs included). And now that +200 games need to be produced, it's not something they can do like the Nemo guy. This is a much bigger scale.
The cost of setting up a large production line to make them all will become higher than they thought.
They are in JJP / Spooky size now.
And if they don't optimize every part of their game to save costs, they can produce them but it will cost them much more than was necessary.
It wouldn't surprise me if in a few months they'll conclude they produce RAZA for a loss. And then what ? Will they do so, will they try every legal trick they know to turn it around in a profit ?
Talking about Gene - this is who John and Robert remind me of.
It's also posted here he sometimes he didn't want to sell parts and seemed to want to brag he had something that no one else had.
John and Robert are also big egos who want to show who they are.
They are not into the business to produce games and make a profit, it's just a hobby project to stroke their ego.
That's why I think (just like with Gene), RAZA will be produced.
After all they've said and done, they cannot afford to bail out now.
It may take years, it may cost them much more than they thought, the games may have problems (which maybe won't be taken care of correctly), .. but I'm pretty sure that games get produced this time.
If they will exist for many more years and be able to produce 10 other titles ? I doubt this very much, overhead costs and investments need to be repayed someday by making a profit..
It's possible we're wrong and DR still makes a profit and earns back all the investments. But if pinball was that profitable then people like suncoast, highway, mafia, . Wouldn't have failed..

Thumbs up - good comparisons!

I have heard AP’s next title is contracted game - could it be RAZA?????

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#14931 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from NoQuarters:
Santas elves making the games is plausible. It would keep the workshop going after Christmas, but I think Jpop and Robert might be on the naughty list.
Don't know if Santa is keen with taking any partnerships or work from folks on the naughty list.

I like working Santa into this one - LOL (perfect timing!)

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#14934 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from NoQuarters:
A yeah - look at your avatar - HoHoHo. Of course you like Santa Claus.
Santa is their best bet. Too bad about the naughty list though. Throws a big wrench in the works.

Laughing out loud right now!
This Santa has his feet reclined now - no miracles being performed today here !

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#14939 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from flynnibus:
There is no reputation or history yet? The last 5 years didn't happen?

Let me explain a bit more....to me their reputation will - is based on making games (getting them to market).

What they did for the last 5 years (designing games, blowing through money, being boastful, etc) really has not affected the buyer of DR games since they did not have any or offer any for sale. NOW that they have taken pinball buyers money their reputation starts here forward - let’s see how they deliver.

All the hype, boastful taking, etc mean nothing to me the last 5 years. Now that they have “taken buyers money” their reputation will be watched closely by all. (“Actions speaker louder than Words”.)

If in fact they deliver on RAZA, they will have bigger sales on their 2nd game (despite whatever they did the last 5 years). Great example - DP. DP is delivering slowly on TBL and steadily building confidence. This instills confidence and a better reputation.

If they don’t they will close shop quickly.

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2

#14958 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Mr68:
See screenshot.
If it happens I would hope that the Goodwill agreement people would be first to receive their games. I've never met Fulltilt and I would enjoy seeing a picture of him unboxing his game. Many of the others too and I will quietly celebrate all of them should Deeproot prove me wrong.
[quoted image]

Think of TBL or PB - their goodwill agreement people were not first - those companies needed the cash first. I would be surprised if that happened here.

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#14974 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Doesn’t recoup there investment but they just pulled in a cool Million+ with these orders IF they can produce these games.

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2

#14978 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from NoQuarters:
If IF's and BUT's were Candy and Nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

HOHOHO....merry Christmas...........and happy new year....

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#14979 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Mr68:
There is some controversy about the game numbers being produced. You might want to get caught up on that thread.

Controversy?

In the pre-order thread my understanding was people trying to figure out serial #'s vs order #'s etc.
No controversy, just a bunch of pre-order people figure out the numbering scheme.

If your comment is that there may not be 200+ games ordered or DR miss led people - time will tell on this one.
I have no evidence they did, so not calling them on it.

EDIT again!!....5 people ordered in the last 3 hours...and they were 209, 210 and 211, 212, 213 on order #'s. So I have to believe these are the up and up....

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#14989 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Mr68:
Screenshot from TWIP interview a little over a year ago.
[quoted image]

Heck if their warranty was 6 months - that would be much better than other manufacturers on playfield dimples!

Of course games need to be made first to have a warranty option.

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#14990 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from russdx:
Octo is just 8 old ladies on a production line.

I think they are still kids yet - Octo mom.

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#14993 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from hank527:
I’d like to know how this is better than lean with a focus on setup reduction. Seems like a manufacturing line is the only way to go unless building small runs by hand.

If the Quad or Octo sit together in small cell that would be lean. Lol

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3

#14996 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from GreenMachine19:
I have to think non-refundable deposits mean you can’t back out and get your deposit back. Not we don’t ever make any games and keep your deposit too no?

Not much money to make here. 10-20%.

Plus it would mean the end of DR.

So why go through all this BS for years to lose millions to make few hundred thousands of dollars.

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#14997 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from flynnibus:
Next you are going to tell me the easter bunny isn’t real either...
Why are you always such a downer

Perfect timing - games released by Easter built by the Easter bunny - I like the way you think.

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1

#14998 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

So once we get past RAZA being made will you now be a DR buyer?

Or since they built RAZA you will be a hater of all future games?

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#15002 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Mr68:
What warranty option would that be? Last I heard buyers are signing a blanket indemnity contract.

Now we are talkin...same as other pinball manufacturers on playfields. LOL.

Maybe the purchase warranty option would offer something.

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#15009 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from flynnibus:
Just remember... the easter bunny didn't take preorder money and no one has lost money with the easter bunny... so I don't know why you all won't just give him the benefit of the doubt.

Oh my Easter bunny always takes my money before we get treats! Nothings free in life or without risk.

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#15010 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Mr68:
Screen shot from the Raza Pre-order thread:
[quoted image]

Time will tell sooner or later what the final numbers are.

Also I suspect if manufacturing goes better than they plan, they will offer RAZA for sale again. Again time will tell.

FYI, If they successfully fill all orders wether that is 100 or 200 and Zidware customers get theirs along with new people we should all be singing praises to DR.

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#15013 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from NoQuarters:
PM sent. I better not post what my response to that is.

Which songs do you want to sing?

I figured you would wait until they start shipping!

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#15015 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from NoQuarters:
Actually I emailed you... Check your mail. ... My response might not have even made it past the PM system.

Ah I see it - you are waiting for Food truck to come out.

Oh wait I might be exaggerating.

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1

#15018 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from hank527:
Successful manufacturer. More scamming is not okay.

Time will tell if they (DR) can manufacture - patience. If you are right you can let us know. If you are not you can let us know.

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1

#15020 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Mr68:
I'm a sceptic, not an asshole and have stated all along in this thread about my support for the Zidware people. I'm glad to give Deeproot credit once they accomplish shipping all games from their secret facility and by the deadline dates. After that will be quality control and other issues but lets just stick with getting the games out for now.
The buying window closes at 3:00 tomorrow and the real work needs to already be underway for those phase one machines to make the deadline.
Believe it or not, I'm captivated by the suspense.

We all are captive to see if they will do this or not. We Will know shortly over next 2-3 months on what they can ship or not.

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#15030 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from greenhornet:
on this latest development :
it does not appear that DR will be delivering games packed with features at a discount to the market. if these 'real' prices hold for similarly featured future titles, they will be comparable to JJPs LE and CE models.
their position is that DR innovations/technology justify these prices when compared to the competition. in all likelihood, they reevaluated their various costs and concluded that these are the type of prices at which they must sell games in order to sustain profitability in light of their massive development/start up costs. its unfortunate they put so much into their games that they wont be able to sell them cheap.
at these prices, people are going to want to see/try what they are buying first. given the current and near term climate of NIB pinball accessibility, it will be difficult for DR to showcase their innovations to potential consumers hands on. for the time being, people will have to rely mainly on gameplay videos to make the determination as to whether the DR experience is worth an expected 8K+addons / 13K fully featured. having a limited number of RAZAs confined to peoples home collections isnt going to help DR reach new buyers. expect this lack of exposure to hamper short term sales .
these price points are not going to drive sales. so what will? original themes? innovations that people could just as easily live without? a levitating ball gimmick? steve bowdens coding and quinn johnsons storytelling? these games are going to have to be pretty compelling in order for future pricing to remain at the high end of the market. given what we have seen/heard/read up to this point, DR may have to resign itself to boutique sales numbers for the time being.

Reading on business start ups one would think you should go in and undercut the big guy on the street (Stern in this exact case).

In fact, business cases suggest the opposite. For the few games they-DR produce compared to a Stern game (100s vs 1000s) the business models actually suggest price your “innovative” product higher than the market. This is what JJP, DP do for example. (BY the way these niche low volume game help establish your business, manufacturing, systems, etc). Once established (could take years) then lower prices, streamline operations and watch your pennies invested to maximize profits (sound like Stern?)

Look up business examples & models. Note - Tesla was / is a great example of this. Their long-term business model from day 1 was to build an electric car for the mass market (but their short term planning model was to offer high end cars to rake in profit to fund their long-term goal). This is well documented - FYI.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/active-trading/072115/what-makes-teslas-business-model-different.asp

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#15033 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from JimWilks:
That all makes sense IF your new product is truly innovative. Buyers will pay for innovation. But IS the Deeproot offering an innovation???

That is fair question. But it is in the eye of the buyer.

If they have sales in 200-300 range someone thought it certainly is.

If you follow Tesla- everyone said the same about the Tesla Pinbar!!! (The big touch screen in it that runs everything - very few buttons).

For me, RAZA / DR is intriguing to watch. I think they would have done 500+ game orders for RAZA if they would have went through distributors that held the down payment.

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#15036 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from JimWilks:
RAZA was NOT selling at these "new" price levels. I think these sort of "new" price levels would have driven down the RAZA numbers. Also, if they had not had the "captive" Zidware buyers, the RAZA numbers would be even lower.

Fair enough.

I suspect the “rounded up” production numbers at $8/$13k will sell no problem.

Also, their next title will tell more. Sounds like their pinball platform is developed so we will understand their future pricing model.

Time will tell....

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#15038 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from NoQuarters:
1.Like a train wreck.
2. Pffft - not a chance. I don't think they got any interest from any legit distributor anyhow.
I think you have been working from home too long. Lay off the cheap beer or booze.

Maybe your right to much beer!

I applied to be their distributor but never heard anything! I could sell from my basement

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#15049 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from iceman44:
Congrats on the success of Heist Gerry! I hope it leads to bigger things for you guys in 2021
Gotta start somewhere like you did
I will give factory drive by updates in January

Agree - talk about innovation. I just watched the Heist/P3 system- game of the year - lots of innovation!! Nice work.

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3

#15080 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Roostking:
My take, they dont even deliver a pin to customers, so all of this is irrelevant. Production is the hard part...

One more time - production is the hard part.

Dang if I had a $1 every time I heard this I could start my own manufacturing company!

We get it - this is the part that will make DR succeed or fail.

Do you have another angle to advance the discussion?

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#15103 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from PinMonk:
Wow, that's some stark comparison from Nov 2018 to Aug 2020 when you see it laid out like that (I took Dennis Nordman out because he's gone, even though they list him):
--------------------------
Nov 2018
--------------------------
MANAGEMENT TEAM
--------------------------
ROBERT MUELLER - PRINCIPAL
CRAIG RUSHFORTH - VP/LEAD ENGINEER
EXCLUSIVE GAME AND AUDIO DESIGN TEAM
--------------------------
JOHN POPADIUK - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
DENNIS NORDMAN - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
JON NORRIS - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
BARRY OURSLER - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
DAVID THIEL - PINBALL AUDIO ARTIST
ELECTRICAL TEAM
--------------------------
MATTHEW BRADSHAW - ELECTRICAL ENGINEER
JOSUE CRUZ-LAMBERT - ELECTRICAL ENGINEER
JACOB RODRIGUEZ - ELECTRICAL ENGINEER
FLOR CASTRO - ELECTRICAL TECH
MECHANICAL TEAM
--------------------------
SEAN GIBSON - SENIOR MECHANICAL ENGINEER
PATRICK FINUCANE - MECHANICAL PROJECT LEAD
JEREMY SANCHEZ - MECHANICAL ENGINEER
DANIEL VELA - MECHANICAL ENGINEER
JUAN SOTELO - MECHANICAL TECH
MANUEL LEAL - MECHANICAL TECH
STEPHEN NEGRETE - MECHANICAL TECH
CHRISTOPHER CABRERA - MECHANICAL TECH
CHARLES NEGRETE - MECHANICAL TECH
IN-HOUSE ART AND STORYBOARDING TEAM
--------------------------
BLAKE ADRIAN - VISUALIZATION ARTIST
ADAM REHMANN - CONCEPT ARTIST
QUINN JOHNSON - SCENARIST, STORYBOARDING, WRITER
STEVEN BOWDEN - RULESET DESIGNER / DEEPROOT AMBASSADOR
UTAH CREATIVE STUDIO
--------------------------
MATTHEW ARMSTRONG - ART DIRECTOR
LANCE MONTGOMERY - PINBALL AUDIO ARTIST
NATE ALLISON - TECHNICAL DIRECTOR
ALLEN STEVENSON - ANIMATOR
RYAN BIRD - ANIMATOR
DILLON THOMPSON - CHARACTER MODELLING & ANIMATION
SOFTWARE TEAM
--------------------------
TURNER LOGIC - SOFTWARE
--------------------------
Aug 2020
--------------------------
MANAGEMENT TEAM
--------------------------
ROBERT MUELLER - PRINCIPAL
CRAIG RUSHFORTH - VP/LEAD ENGINEER
EXCLUSIVE GAME AND AUDIO DESIGN TEAM
--------------------------
JOHN POPADIUK - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
JON NORRIS - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
BARRY OURSLER - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
DAVID THIEL - PINBALL AUDIO ARTIST

Checking LinkedIn- some of those people are listed as being at DR still. But very few!!

For example - SEAN GIBSON is now VP of Operations.

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#15104 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Roostking:
Yes, pre-production is also the hard part, for DR. Ala the group that went down and came away less than impressed. I suspect post production will be hard too(if it makes it that far) where will parts and support come from, when DR is dead? Lots of issues with anything production related.
Care to share some news that would refute those statements?

Nope.

Just want to advance the discussion beyond what we already know.

I would like DR to succeed (as more pinball is good); however I do my homework and I do not think this will end well.

Hope I am wrong for the people in.
Also, DR posted they will release sales numbers at end January- hope they were good and not overinflated.

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#15108 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Zablon:
LOL. Yeah, I think they will get some games out, but not sure about all of them. Crossing fingers they do as I like what I see. My main concern is they don't seem to have really changed their gameplan much from the last time. I see something like Heighway happening at some point - but what do I know.
I already have all my money tied up waiting on a R&M and an Alien (which..really could go the same way).

At least on Alien you get your money back if they fold for those going through Cointaker.

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#15142 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from kermit24:
Look at the employees left. It’s a design studio, not a manufacturing company. They would be better off using a local contract manufacturer at this point.

Hope they are for the preorder people - because it will take awhile to get a machine with people building these in a lab.
We will know soon....

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#15145 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from iceman44:
Yes, failure is a possibility. I’m not sure what satisfaction those rooting for it get?

While I have less faith today that DR will succeed I hope they do for the sake of the preorder people.

However, this above Iceman statement sums up many of the responses in this thread. There seems to be real rooting for failure here and I am going to ask people who post here from time to time - why is that - even though it may sound annoying. I really want to know.

If you got burned by Jpop, then by all means state that and you have a legit beef - if you are just piling on I will be annoying
Piling on adds nothing to the forum content to move the discussion forward.

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#15161 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from greenhornet:
is 'industrial arts' even a thing anymore ?[quoted image]

Not in California !

Need to come to the Midwest where we still invent & manufacture shit instead of sucking off the governement.

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#15219 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from flynnibus:
No, WOZ was not low cost - it was the most expensive game to date.

I heard Big Lebowski was the most expensive with the lower bowling alley being like $2k to manufacture?

What did WOZ cost?

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#15269 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

This thread is so useful?

Here is song that sums it up?
Round and round....

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#15271 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Roostking:
Because, as I have found out, the pinball world is full of some pretty smart people who know a thing or two about finance, manufacturing, engineering and supply chain. Many of those same people have brought up valid questions regarding all of the above. The only thing DR is , is well financed.. All other questions are unanswered. Ill trust the group think on this.

You are wise to think all those disciplines (& more) are required for a long-term successful company. That has been debated for 15,000+ posts. We should be discovering what DR lacks or needs to be doing to improve in these areas to improve as a start up. However, half this thread is pitch forks and torches. Can we offer constructive criticism & suggested improvements instead?

What I will also add is DR is a startup that has made several mistakes (from afar for me); but we can list several startups especially in pinball that have done the same.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out in the coming weeks. If you have some inside information to share that would be great; if you have some pictures of the manufacturing line or vendors lines please do share. This will all help us gauge what is truly going on behind the magic curtain.

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#15274 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from NoQuarters:
@ cpr9999
There has been at least one very uplifting post. ( If you page back a few pages or look at the picture gallery you will find it )
As far as pitchforks I don't see that, but there is good picture of a shit spreader a few posts above.

LOL - at least the shit spreader was a picture! Now let’s see the DR production line pictures OR hear from some of vendors building parts so we really know what’s going on.....

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#15336 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from UnholySpectacle:
Ben, I would like to back the thoughts of Yelobird. I also can’t wait to see what you do in the future and I expect a future game of yours will deliver the world under glass we all would love to see.

If BH’s future game fails in some way or shape we can count on Pinside pitchfork & torches as this is what we do. Tough industry to Root for!

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#15337 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Dennis Nordman article - question:

https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2021/01/04/dennis-nordman-joins-american-pinball/

What does this mean in the article.....

“Dennis will also finish releasing in-progress games in the future that he’s been working on under contract with other manufacturers.”

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#15338 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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No one has seen Food truck - how can you be for OR against it at this point?

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#15344 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from Makakka:
Food truck is designed for market expansion with an xtra for 10k for collectors and fans. It’s for the investors that don’t know anything about pinball to follow the dream/myth „every home needs a deeproot pinball“.

Get real dude - have you seen it - dumb statement. Do you make this statement about every pinball machine?

Let’s see and play New pinball machines first - then judge.

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#15345 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from Yelobird:
Ok I would be in on a FT with that dare.

Well that’s an easy bet to take if they make FT and Pinside is correct that they only made 150 AMH games.

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#15346 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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#15349 3 years ago

JIM

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Quoted from Mr68:
Well Food Truck has been confirmed as Deeproots next title and they will have to release images fairly soon and promote it to keep the line moving.

Agree - then we can examine good or bad shit about it.

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#15350 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from cooked71:
Food Truck = Oktoberfest. Same/same. I think between Diner and Oktoberfest we have enough Food and Drink themed games to last a few decades to come.
How successful was Oktoberfest again?

More Ocktoberfest’s made then AMH.
Neither big runners but have their following.

Give me 1 more unique game like Oktoberfest or Food Truck .... than the 100th music pinball. Only 4 of those music pins in the top 40 pinball rankings.

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#15353 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from TreyBo69:
Why do people keep bringing up how many AMH sold? I bet it was a better ROI than whatever RAZA ends up being.
AMH made some money and got Spooky going for relatively little startup capital. RAZA has sold about twice as much, but the initial investment was magnitudes larger. (And those games still gotta be built)
You can dog AMH for the way it looks, but it was pretty successive all things considered.

My interpretation was not about ROI, more about interest in the title.

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#15431 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from DakotaMike:
Actually, DR only has one other video of any substance, and that's a fairly uninspiring rules-video by Steve Bowden and partner. Love Steve, but the rules video certainly isn't a slick or to-the-point overview.
Come on guys, my point wasn't that I couldn't possibly find any more info on RAZA; my point was that DR called their video a RAZA walkthrough, and that's not actually what the video is. DR doesn't actually have a slick, well-produced game-overview video. And the fact that Robert doesn't spend any time talking about the actual game, speaks volumes to me. The RAZA video in question should have been called a Deeproot Platform walkthrough, not a RAZA walkthrough.
And I just found it interesting. With Stern games, I can usually find a nicely produced and to-the-point video to show my wife a game I'm thinking about buying. With RAZA, it was difficult to find an equivalent video.

Common DakotaMike you are overthinking this. Step back and realize that Stern does not need to show off their platform / same basic formula/platform for years. They focus their videos on game play because their platform is developed.

Deeproot has something to prove and show off - their platform. So showing both platform and game at the same time can be competing for their first game release. I am sure DP’s new platform puts a shadow over their 1st game release (about to be released.). As other games come (if other games come)....platform will be secondary.

Don’t over think this one.

Now as far as if RAZA trips your trigger or not that is fair. Pick a game you will love playing.

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#15434 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from littlecammi:
If you see a food truck in the parking lot around lunchtime, is it there for serving the DR employees or for ongoing game development?

Both and to help build RAZA!

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#15451 3 years ago

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cpr9999

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Quoted from Roostking:
Its almost like I can smell my burrito from Food Truck which should be a couple months behind, as ordered on my Pinbar(tm) exciting times!

You’d have to be capable of operating a Pinbar. Are you?

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#15461 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from Svend:
What you're basically saying is that, as a starting company, they're deliberately bringing a probably less succesfull title to the market first in order to prevent issues such as a too high demand. Which makes no sense, because as a starting company you need every bit of turnover you can get. Having too much demand is a luxury problem and far nicer to have than a potentially weak selling title.

Nope.

Main reason is to get the liability out of the way upfront on this title. Bury the shit storm and move on to next title.

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#15474 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from spinal:
I agree. Every single thought RM had and every single action he made since inception was to raise the bar on every single aspect of pinball - even the box. And to show the world how pinball really should be done. He obviously went all-in for better or worse. Now we are to believe that he would intentially plan to have a sub-optimal title as their first for some strategic advantage?
I’m sure it’s much more likely that he intended to optimize the title, gameplay and everything else as well, now realizes all the ways RAZA falls short, and is now doing expectation management. Just listen to the twip interview carefully.
But it’s to be expected that a first title will be a bit of a trial - I would expect most manufacturers of any product have growing pains. And much more the case when everything is reinvented from the ground up.
Let’s stop trying to make everything look like it was all planned. When idealism faces cold reality, reality often wins at least initially.

You forgot to add at the end - pinball is hard .

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#15484 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

They changed the name:

Bumblebee Man’s Taco Truck
49D810F4-607F-4616-A0FC-8E114C3FBD51 (resized).jpeg

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#15498 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from hank527:
None of it makes sense on so many levels.

That’s the beauty of this saga.
We love the drama - just look at this thread.

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#15502 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from NoQuarters:
No I don't think most of it's about drama - I think a lot of the posts are just plain facts, and reasonable thought toward probable outcomes - nobody likes to see people get burned. If there is drama, it's a by product of how things don't line up on multiple levels, the history involved and time that has passed.
Just doesn't look good where I'm sitting. Some have optimism. Wish them luck, but I don't think this will turn out well in the end.

Yeah - probably should say “entertainment”.

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#15507 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from TreyBo69:
Yeah that’s the only logical conclusion. They have optioned these properties. But options also expire...

Maybe call RM if you are worried.

I have better things to worry about.

And I am sure their focus is RAZA and survival right now.

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#15721 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from happyclan:
I feel like I should have a sliding scale on my offer to take over a preorder. As the ship date continues to slip out, wouldn't the price to get out go down? At what point does it go negative where they pay me to get out?

Machine - Wanted

Wanted: Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)

Featured!

Wanted! “Looking to take over your pre-order for $1K. Yes, you can roll the dice on DR and hope they make the pin on time and high quality. TO BE CLEAR, I want DR and RAZA to hit it out of...”

22 days ago

San Diego, CA

Wanted

happyclan

I am sure this will help you get one soon.

Oh wait, I have one to sell you and will let you have it for a $7k deposit. I will collect the remainder upon shipping.

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#15736 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from NoQuarters:
I'll go $7.00 even. I'll take the balance of breaking a ten dollar bill and get a few powerball tickets. The tickets probably have a better chance of getting something in return.
Didn't know you preordered one of these. If so, pretty ballsy. Thought we talked about this - maybe you forgot your ordered from another start up ?
I won't preorder anything except maybe take out food - curbside service.

Yup...dang it wrong thread again...that was PB or was the DP.....not DR!

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#15806 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from TreyBo69:
We’re just having a laugh and talking about pinball stuff.
I sincerely hope people get their games. And if this thread bothers someone or makes the feel insecure, drain it? I feel like most people are jocular and not mean spirited.
The nice thing about pessimism is constantly being proven right or being pleasantly surprised

Maybe time to speak to your counselor?

(Ok - everyone back to pinball now....)
D9755A69-1762-410B-AE63-5B82A9977E5F (resized).jpeg

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#15844 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from Scandell:
yep

Lots of investment.
What’s the return on investment?
63426C47-84E8-4D1D-B9E6-13716C06476C (resized).png

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#16414 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from NoQuarters:
Some assembly required.

No no - I just got an update.

ASOA is selling RAZA now.

Found out in the ASOA thread.

Buy with confidence

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#16514 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from iceman44:
No takers yet
My inbox is empty

Funny part of this - I might as well have put down the 10% deposit - $600 bucks...

Downside (if I don't get the game).....the loss is approximately the same - based on your bet.
Upside (if I get the game)....I have a game that is rare and worth a bunch of money (much better deal than the $500 you would pay me).

....hmmmmm....your bet does not make sense.

I think your bet should be $50 if you do/don't get your game.
OR
The bet can be $500 but then everyone needs to get their games (all 160 people).

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#17104 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from NeilMcRae:
chips aren't made in China though, their silicon technology is years behind. TMSC in Taiwan (not strictly China) is suffering from changing of demand cars->computers/tablets/webcams->cars and then Huawei bought up a huge amount of supply for their needs and then a shortage of water which is required in the process. Underinvestment outside of Asia means there is few places to have chips fabricated other than Asia. Intel today announced plans for a new fab in the US and Europe which is great news.

It is good news.

Unfortunately AP / China is building like 20+ fab houses now.

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#17710 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from TheCapn:
Hey guys. Just to be clear on my actions recently with deeproot. Lots of speculation so let me be clear:
I was fine with this company doing it's thing because it wasn't really hurting anyone, but when he took money (when specifically stating in the past he wouldn't) and seems to be failing to deliver - I felt that things needed to be brought more into the light. I understand that some of you have your hopes and that is also fine. It's just extra difficult for me to have faith in deeproot because I was at ground zero - the only other person that sounds to be right there with me is Ben Heck. I had high hopes for this company - I was expecting to be impressed and gitty with info and videos to show everyone. Sadly, this wasn't the case at all. I believe I may be going on Kaneda's show in the future to divulge more, but in the meantime I'm willing to help anyway I can - including with the floor plan some of you have interests in. For instance, the lab manufacturing area was where the video about the Pinpod took place. The recording took place about 20'' to the left of the image posted with the roll up door in the background. This wasn't where they planned to have their ''quad-manufacturing'' located. That was deeper into the facility. The (at that time) floor space for production was approximately 2-3,000 sq ft. with literally nothing but empty harbor freight workbenches (less than 10 of them). (something like this https://www.harborfreight.com/48-in-workbench-with-light-60723.html )
I'm willing to help any way I can, guys. I'll check back here every once in a while. I have been dodging this thread ever since my experience there. lol.

What’s the purpose for waiting to divulge more information on Kenada’s podcast?
If you want to help share now....I don’t get the waiting - is this for ratings? If you are here to help please do so now.

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#17719 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from Mbecker:
I think everyone that ordered one was or is mostly aware. It blind faith keeping their hopes alive. I’m always interested to hear more insider info but let’s be honest - it’s not swaying anyone (or very few) that were ‘lucky enough’ to get in on a deposit. A few will get out given an option next month. A lot will stick it out

Sneak peak photo someone sent me.

3B898433-7728-497C-BE75-72058CC5AA77 (resized).jpeg

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#17722 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from Mbecker:
I’m confused, where’s the octopuses and unicorns??! This can’t be DR, clearly a fake!! Lol
Well interesting to see some cabinets and possibly *something happening

LOL - wrong thread - those sneak peak pictures were for GNR lines!

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#17723 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from Mr68:
That's an altered picture from Jersey Jack Pinball. Go back to the pre-order thread and play your silly games there.
[quoted image]

Common we are having fun entertaining.

Keeps the thread interesting.

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#17724 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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I found the business model being deployed......

D4D1723D-28F7-4D6C-8DAA-A0CAFF476D4E (resized).jpeg

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#17726 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from Mr68:
What was the the purpose of the picture being altered? Why would someone sneak you JJP pictures that were posted back in January? ...Lame attempt at cover up.

You mean like your bullshit comments to me in yesterday's pre-order thread, one of which I gave a pass to?
Yeah, you're an entertaining guy.

This is the gossip, entertaining thread - not the preorder thread. KNOW where you are posting Francis.

OR

Am I going to have to get out my Pin-Poke!

949C3609-905E-46E9-91B0-1BF723EA108B (resized).jpeg

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#17745 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from Roostking:
Guys and gals, quit asking or stating "Why this" or "How did the plan to do that".
THEY DIDNT AND DONT HAVE A PLAN. End of story.

Can’t do that this is the entertainment thread.

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#17793 3 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from littlecammi:
Obvious example: no news from Deeproot keeps fueling this thread on Pinside.

Better to say nothing - which they should of stuck to - because every word is interpreted 6 different ways.

Look at Pinball Brothers or Dutch Pinball - smart move not to say anything. Slowly get machines out and people are good.
Also, take a lesson from Stern on this too. Not a word about a new release until it is ready.

Added: see thread activity pickup - right when DP started talking and sharing again - each blip there after corresponds to them releasing a message.

Screenshot 2021-04-17 170521 (resized).jpg

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#17990 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from flynnibus:
This is why doing a real estimate beyond the napkin math is not worth anyone's time.
You could have a professor roll in and give a whole lecture on it, and you'd still come back with "well, lets just wait and see" or non-sense like "I only count the days from when they took orders".
You are dug in and will have nothing to do with anything that doesn't support the notion of "well it might work..."

The funny part of all of this back and forth about financials is if DR actually produces games. How the hell did they do it?

And then what if they produce some more.

We will need to go back to the bar, scratch our azz, suck down a cold one and sharpen are pens on that napkin. Cuz the math don’t work.

I will laugh my azz off if games get produced. That will make everybody flip upside down.

This will get interesting next month on the reveal - or next steps in the saga.

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#18000 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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#18010 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from screaminr:
It's amazing what Haggis has done , a few years ago Damian didn't even know about pinball and with a few guys they produced and delivered a game and have announced a new one .
With all the millions of dollars and industry experts , Deeproot hasn't delivered anything .
[quoted image]

Yikes - not my cup of tea - that machine is like 30 years to late.

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#18055 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from NoQuarters:
You liked it when I had 30 year old machines. And even older. I thought you liked all kinds of tea. New, old, lots of good stuff out there.
I have not played a Fathom that I recall - but I would like to. Looks like a pretty neat game. I think it's a good idea to remake some older games. It has a place. Haggis will actually make and produce the games.

Understand some people may like it, but man I would certainly prefer my Big Lebowski or Aliens pinball that are on order be here instead of this. Just not my cup of tea - does mean it is not someone elses.

FYI - I like your modern collection much better - all new Stern, AP, etc. Big upgrade! (I get any pinball is fun - but what you have now is very cool).

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#18108 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from spinal:
Any news on when the next 6 week delay will be announced?

The delay announcement has been postponed to mid-May.

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#18509 2 years ago

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cpr9999

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Quoted from Rarehero:
Hey so, can you send me money for a pinball machine? I’ll also send you nothing, since you seem to be cool with that concept. I’ll enjoy your money. Win win! Thanks!

We could do a fundraiser for you if needed?
Maybe we could raise $600 for you.

Everyone PayPal me a dollar and when I get enough will send it your way!

C18D0E22-44FB-4660-B979-92C80A72CC10 (resized).jpeg

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#19228 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from NoQuarters:
@ shit_thunder you may have a very long wait - maybe eternity.

Shit thunder is what food truck gives you!

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#19237 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:
Does Spooky announcing 2 themes on their next pin count as them lapping Deeproot once or twice?

No for now.
Yes - When they manufacturer them you bet.

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#19273 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from iceman44:
its this part that is troubling to me. Covid had NOTHING to do with DR not being able to produce a pinball machine and now they got saved by PPP taxpayer money despite the Gold Medal level “imbecile management” award winners for years.
Covid saved their collective asses

What’s that saying….. better to be lucky then good?!

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#19282 2 years ago

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cpr9999

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Quoted from thechakapakuni:
Damn I should have started a pinball company during COVID

Exactly my thoughts. All these companies living off of the tax payer (us) money - dang. Need to start my company and ask for this money. And I don’t even need to produce much. lol.

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#19411 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from TreyBo69:
Halloween/Ultraman has more innovative mechs than RAZA
It also did an upper upper (upper) playfield in a standard size cab.
They’ll also probably build most of the 1750 units before deeproot finishes its RAZA run
In retrospect Robert likely wishes he was more diplomatic and generous in his offer to buy Spooky instead of starting deeproot.
Thank goodness Spooky is still independent.

Halloween is interesting looking. Who the heck is Ultraman - is this targeted for a different market?

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#20708 2 years ago

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cpr9999

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Darn came into this thread expecting an update with 100’s of posts since my last checking in - anything new?

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#21042 2 years ago

JIM

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Quoted from Scandell:
If somebody mentions “the investors” again…I’m going to rage.
There. Are. No. Investors.

I invested through PPP loan / charity.
How do I get my money back?

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#21735 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Lost in all the hullabaloo around what has been taken down is concern around what's still up: the job posting for deeproot's janitor. That position has been open for weeks. I shudder to think what things look at HQ with its 27 toilets and 9 urinals.

You should apply then we can find out.

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#21791 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from FlawlessJS:I have only been watching this from afar and rarely chime in, but why the need to be malicious? I understand if a lot went on between you and deeproot, but just leave it there...just be ambassadors of the hobby and leave the personal stuff out of it. Things would be a lot better that way.

What would be funny is if DR landed a subcontractor or sold to a startup.
We could watch Ben pull the rest of his hair out for another 7 years. Keep him occupied on Pinside instead of making games.

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#21795 2 years ago

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cpr9999

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Quoted from Roostking:
One only reference DP and TBL. That went to hell within what, 50 pins delivered and the sub raised their prices to build by $1000 I believe. No way RM/Jpop build and deliver a pin for $10000 and make a profit.
Everything else aside..
Fortunately, DP is building and delivering pins, so they have risen from the ashes it would seem.

Just remember Ben was right in the DP thread:

0B25A3C2-965A-445D-AD68-DF35E62CC3CA (resized).jpeg

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#21816 2 years ago

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Quoted from ForceFlow:
I posted this in the other thread--I've been curious about what--if anything--is happening at the facility. Has anyone seen the facility in the last couple days? Are there staff still there? Is it sitting dark & idle? Has it been cleaned out? Have the doors been padlocked? Is there anything posted on the doors?

LOL

No one cares about this - better things to chat about in this thread.

Deeproot is dead - where have you been? We are now talking about the scraps left for auction.

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#22048 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Have at it, memers (and be nice!):

Credit: https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2018/10/19/pinball-expo-2018-friday/

Is this a retirement seminar?

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#22123 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

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Quoted from NoQuarters:
In regards to game totals - It might be interesting to know how many were:
1. zidware carryovers
2. how many new sale deposit only
3. how many new sale that paid in full
4. Also other multiple purchasers aside from the 9 orders from one party mentioned in the video.

EXACTLY...........Numbers please.

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#22127 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from NoQuarters:
@ cpr9999 Ref your post in the other thread - I disagree with your assessment of the cat/dog pictures in this thread being crappy. There are some very good posts and the animals had sense enough not to order any games. What's your 3 or 4 pound dog think about all this ?

Challenge to post your dog pic with comment.

Ok - challenge accepted.

He is tired of all this Deeproot talk - he’s sleeping on it! All 4lbs.

PS - leg shot was for you…

2DB374A4-CD2F-41E6-A106-CB7AC4BEF088 (resized).jpeg

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#22986 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from iceman44:
This is what the 575 fund was all about. The much BIGGER picture.
While you guys are all doing the happy dance, $58 million of investor $$$, placed by their trusted investment advisors, are going to get F Ed for at least some portion of their money.
No one knew how bad the fund was actually performing other than the advisors that were getting those reports.
I suspect all it took was a few disgruntled advisors to start the dominos falling with the SEC. I didn’t think it would happen this soon
For me, I’m happy now that the SEC has gotten involved that the bigger picture fraud was stopped before even more damage could have been done.
It’s still amazing how they even got it up to $58 million from $44 million as last reporting period.

Question- knowing this, did you think RAZA games would get pumped out before the curtain fell on the bigger Ponzi scheme?

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#23443 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from LTG:
I'm sorry for what this all did to pinball. The game we love.
It didn't happen. People working for or contracted with, their labors could have gone to other games and companies.
People didn't get games. People lost money. People had their hopes and dreams not come true.
And maybe worst of all during all this time. The dissension among Pinsiders. Instead of building relationships, many were torn apart.
I hope going forward relationships will heal and be better for all the people that posted in this thread.
LTG : )

Like your perspective - I believe right on.

I also hope Pinside/moderators can look back and see what they could have done differently to better moderate topics like this for the betterment of the community.

Otherwise more dissension amongst Pinsiders will be common place which will destroy what they have created.

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#23453 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
The game was always terrible.
Any time you need to create new rules to fix a faulty layout - ie: hey it's not so bad that 9 out of 10 ramp shots on any RAZA where the front leg levelers aren't jacked up two inches falls into the pops, cause now you score points for that! - the battle is already lost.
It was a bad game. It will always be a bad game. It will continue to be a bad game in the future for whomever ends up with those two cobbled together prototypes. I do hope it continues to be trotted out at shows for the foreseeable future, or ends up at the PBHOF or somewhere the public can see it for themselves. Jpop/Mueller's folly could end up having some positive impact, if only it helps people avoid similar scams in the future.

While I tend to agree with game flow of your comments- the message to send here is never buy a game without playing it first for both flow and code. I can not call it a bad game, because as I have been advised over the years to play it first before I call it bad or good. No matter what people are selling you in this hobby.

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#23459 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
That's just a matter of preference. I tend to love buying games I've barely/never played (though that doesn't happen much any more after 100s of games), as it's a new game! And you get to play it all you want! And won't be tired of it before your first plunge!
Maybe it's not smart for a NIB buyer, but let's face it; when you buy a game that actually EXISTS, from a company who won't steal your money, and it ain't for you, you can easily sell it and only lose a few bucks. We see this literally every time a new game comes out, people buy it, people sell it, and people post "Why are there so many X games for sale?!" threads as if it doesn't happen every single time.
Sending money on a questionable game from a company that has never made a game before is a whole different ballgame.
Stop doing it! Bad Pinside!

How about we stop sending money before pinball machine is made by a real or fictitious company. This would be better for the hobby and Pinside.

0

#23469 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from NoQuarters:
I'm with Levi - the game was horrible. You could see it in the video. It was a stinker. You can call that one bad. No need to play it. Trust me buddy.
Here's the cigar muncher you like...

Thanks NoQuarters

However I think the community would disagree - for example Munsters code. Game flow and layout is great but code was not up to par for many Pinsiders.

I know it’s good for you and me! But hey, we are like barely achievers in the pinball code world.

PS - cigar is for you

0

#24335 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

2

0

#24336 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

1

0

#24337 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

0…….and a picture for old time sake!

The teacher directing….

DAD85A42-18CB-499D-B8FE-3D9EBF68C4B6 (resized).png

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#24481 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Yawning….

Nothing new in this thread today…

Jpop- gone
Mueller gone and being prosecuted
RAZA- dead

What’s new in this thread for the love of God?!

0

#24623 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

…Need to go over to “The Next Stern Pin” forum….people love Sterns version of the pinbar not! Maybe I can put my bar order into the game!

Quoted from zombieyeti:
I get all of people's concerns here - but temper them. I know George was focused on creating added value for buyers first and foremost - not added costs.
I've never seen or heard of 'always online' check ins, activation fees or gas-station advertising

I bet always online is coming…down the road…

047ACBC7-7110-4761-9F01-7B2C875EF758 (resized).png

A8EC3911-3096-47CF-9594-F07CFC20F047 (resized).png

0

#24676 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from JStoltz:
…..Anyway, here are my dogs trying to take control of this thread again.
Say, would anyone else out there happen to have a pet photo to drown out the greatwich?
[quoted image]

No, but we can discuss the SternBar.
Finally I can order me some DP food truck chimichangas from my machine.

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#24818 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Scandell:
I hope as much money as possible makes its way back to the rightful owners.

I would be one of those rightful owners - my tax dollars were used on PPP loans!

0

#25272 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from clempo:
The story does not end like that. All preorder people dispute the charge on their credit card and don't lose a dime, but they still don't get their RAZA unless they pay the insane price at the auction (and the stupid dealer fee).

Is there an auction?

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#25438 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Someone just sent me this anonymously. It would appear to be from deeproot's offices. I don't know anything about the sender or the pic. Perhaps the hardware experts can explain what we're seeing and maybe why it would matter.
Here's the message from user theFeels:
"Hello! I have some picture that might be of interest but need help posting them. Maybe you can help? https://imgur.com/a/fPJrRLG Thanks,"
[quoted image]

All SMT equipment used in making printed circuit boards.

Looks like a start to setting up a circuit board line.

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#25538 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Mr68:
On the subject of charitable contributions.
There are some people that do so with selfless intentions and some that will even donate anonymously. And then there are those that want to stroke their ego and the act is more self-serving rather than charitable. They get crowd approval and then quietly write it off on their taxes.
I'm always pleased when people give money for whatever reason and writing a check or clicking PayPal is fine. But it's the people who donate their time and effort volunteering for those charities and their community that impress me the most. And when you work shoulder to shoulder with those volunteers, you realise our world just might survive after all.
I was glad to read and I upvoted both comments concerning Iceman's financial donations. And I'm glad he pays off when he loses a wager but isn't that what we all are supposed to do?
I'd like a better display in day to day behaviour than just occasionally splashing money around.

Based on your wonderful comments- which are good - did you have to end with judgment?

Judgement will be up to our creator.

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#25544 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Mr68:
You really need to get over the fact that I outed you for posting a fake picture on Pinside. That happened months ago and you still search for the slightest of reasons to attack me.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt your comment you judging me?</blockquote

You get your tattoo yet?

2D811566-AF17-4F81-9BB0-3754C0823CDF (resized).jpeg

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#27255 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from CrazyLevi:I am releasing RAZA.
Please wire transfer me $12,000 US.
Thanks!

I only use Amex!

0

#27261 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from greatwichjohn:
There is lots of stuff that could move forward on besides JPOP stuff. Even the pinbar was done.

Don’t need pinbar anymore, we have the Sternbar integrated with your cell phone.

I just want to know how to order my beer through it.

0

#27579 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Yoreland:
Paid in full for RAZA here. Not scurrying anywhere. Humorous that you project your story of scorn and assumed intent upon those you don't know. Speaking of scorn, I'm sticking around to find out what happens to that that fuckhead RM... Got my chapter 7 "go pound sand" love letter today. Only cost me $7k
[quoted image]

Assuming you could not claw back your visa payment? Hoping you tried this like others.

0

#27648 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
Pinbar (tm) equipped, or the earlier version that was shown at the Houston show?
I don't think the public ever got to leave its disgusting, grubby fingerprints and chicken wing scum on a working pinbar.

CAC1A78B-962B-4E5E-9C59-03BE83CF9E5C (resized).jpeg

0

#27792 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from wcbrandes:
I'm reading this like ...Stern just sold 1000 LEs of FUCKING RUSH!!!

Not really a comparison RAZA to Rush or Stern to non-existing DR. Stern is the king.

FYI, Technically distributors have to buy all these Rush games. So Stern LEs are always sold out to distributors. We will see how quickly they fly off of distributors shelves. Usually LEs do go quickly, but you can still get them from distributors currently, just call around.

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#28171 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Can’t wait to buy my RAZA! Not long now.

08C902E9-FA7D-4F7E-A69D-7F92CEA38338 (resized).jpeg

0

#28319 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Where are the other Raza machines. They had more than 1. Some slipped out the back door for salary payment?

0

2

#28819 2 years ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from spooky_dj:
I am confused as to why they had a silkscreen machine. I presume it's for applying the silkscreen layer to circuit boards, but the circuit board fab typically does that pretty much for free. And they had no other circuit board fabrication equipment. They had a pick and place machine, reflow oven, and a selective soldering machine, which are all used in assembly; those machines make some sense. But I cannot fathom why they would get a silk screen machine. Maybe it was a bundle deal with the other machines? I highly doubt they intended to start fabricating their own PCBs though. And if that was their intent, they were off their rocker. Assembly, sure; fabrication, though, is a whole other beast, far more complicated than pinball. The one potential use I can see for having their own silk screen machine is if they intended to print multicolored art directly onto the PCBs, which manufacturers typically won't do for you. But then, I have to believe there would be easier ways to print directly onto the PCB than a silk screen machine. Heck, just print on plastic and slap it over the PCB, that would be easier and cheaper.
The rest of the equipment I see here makes sense though, for the most part.

That screen printer is for applying solder paste. At least the one I see for sale and is necessary.

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1

#31500 1 year ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
[quoted image]

Looking forward to announcement - pinball machines for everyone!

0

#32175 1 year ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
The Pinbar dies and you can’t do ANYTHING. You can’t play the game. You can’t diagnosis issues.
Another baffling head scratcher was that the pinbar raised with the playfield. Which is moronic considering that sometimes you like to look at the screen while in diagnostics, and with the playfield raised.
It was just a buffoonish idea all around, and really showed off the deep root ethos of “idiotic innovation at any cost.”
Which leads us to the PinPod….

Just curious…what do people with Tesla vehicles do if the screen goes out? Seems like a similar issue. Also, other vehicle manufacturers seem to be copying this thought/design.

0

#32177 1 year ago

JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from Inside:
Ask and you shall find out:
It’ll still keep working - screen is “optional” for basic functionality.

Cool, but basic functionality. No changing AC/defrost/radio etc.

By pin2d

6 years ago

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