New York, NY
Their goal from the beginning was to continue what John Popadiuk started. I'd say this is a gleaming success! 
(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Quoted from tilted81:Why’s everybody hating on food truck? Same thing as Diner.
they're about the same as Sharknado and Jaws.
Quoted from rosh:I've only been in the industry a few years, but one thing I have learned is there is a lot of great ideas, that at the end of the day don't make it into a machine because the value is just not there. Do you want to spend $30 of your BOM to put a color diagram on the underside of the playfield? So, we then have a choice, we can have a drop down target mech or we can swap it out for a stand-up target so we can have a color diagram on the underside of the playfield. Assuming we do a good job building the game, few owners would have any need for that diagram on the underside -- so, I'll take the drop-down mech (preferably with a trip coil). There are dozens of lively (e.g. heated, loud, passionate) discussions and tough decisions on every machine about what to include and where to spend the BOM, and I'm sure that has been the case for pretty much the entire existence of pinball.
Now if BOM and sales price point don't matter, then a lot of this stuff is great. There is a not a design team in pinball who would not kill to have an unlimited BOM. In addition, a lot of what is here has either been done in the past or talked about in the past, but for the reasons already stated was removed or never added.
I think the touch pad display has a lot of potential, whether around game set up, high score entry, or in game selections, as sometimes two or three buttons is not enough. I would still want a physical button for things like magnet activation. As a programmer, having a 'keyboard' built it could certainly have value at times. However, there is nothing more important on a game than the lockdown bar and the flipper buttons. Those are your physical connection to the machine, if you mess with those, you sure has heck better get it right. We saw a game come out with a plastic lockdown bar and 'different' flipper buttons, and we know what players thought of that after playing it. Obviously none of us have touched this, but it certainly does not look comfortable or suitable for serious active game play. But until I touch it, hard to really know.
While The DMD was a great innovation for pinball, as it allowed for more complex rules as you could now communicate to the player more effectively (which we first saw with alphanumeric and that is why we got games like Diner and Taxi, as rules could now be more complex (also thanks to bigger processors/memory for voice calls, etc.). At the same time, and I know I am in the minority on this, I am not a big fan of the LCD in pinball. While it was natural evolution and they look great for spectators, and you can communicate a bit better to the player, and it adds a lot of eye candy, it also adds a HUGE expense to the development of a game, resulting in higher prices and not sure the value add is worth the higher cost. And you have to wonder what is being taken out of games to cover the cost of the display development. But the market place now expects it and that is one reason why games have less and/or prices have gone up. Now this Touch Bar adds another display that needs content. Obviously not as much as the main display (more like the secondary displays used on some games), but no matter what, that does not come for free.
As I said above, if BOM and sales price point don't matter . . .
I, for one, appreciate insider insight like yours. And I think we can now responsibly speculate that the next AP game will have an alpha-numeric display and plastic lockdown bar?
9 months later
1 week later
Ya know, when Bernie Madoff was finally exposed and became national news, I kept asking myself.. How in the world could SO MANY wealthy, educated, otherwise sensible and successful people fall for this? The writing was clearly on the wall for years! The return rates were guaranteed and steady, which was mathematically impossible. The trading tickets did not match the exchange "ticker tape" records. There were no paper trails to any of their investments, at all. No one could replicate the trades they were claiming they did. It was so clear, it almost seemed like there's no way that can be the case.
Harry Markopolous, the now-famous forensic accountant who recognized and discovered Madoff's crimes, took it to the SEC in a 21-page document in 2005. On the top of the first page, was printed in big, bold letters "The World's Largest Hedge Fund is a Fraud", clear as day. He actually presented this to the organization who's job it is to find this sort of shit, and they ignored him. He continued beating the drum to anyone that would listen, but no one would.
It wasn't until 2008 that the fund came to an end, and only because they fell apart from within, becoming insolvent to the point they couldn't afford to keep up the charade anymore. Bernie's sons contacted the FBI and acted like they were unfamiliar about their father's crimes, when they realized the jig was up, and they were going to have some explaining to do very soon, anyway.
So many people knew, but nobody knew. HOW CAN THEY GET AWAY WITH IT FOR SO LONG?? I kept asking myself.
Watching this Deeproot thing unfold in front of my very eyes, and watching so many collector's blind to the truth that was screaming itself into their ears, over and over and over and over, explained so much of how...
People only hear what they want to hear. And the masses are so easily fooled.
Bernie and Robert share so many dangerous sociopathic qualities. They only differ in intelligence. Because unlike Robert, Bernie at least made himself a shit-ton of money in the process. But make no mistakes, Robert could've and would've milked this community for a lot more, if he was just a little smarter.
I hope you all get your money back (or get your game??). Good luck.
markopolos-madoff-complaint-1-728 (resized).jpgno one would listen (resized).png
Quoted from Beechwood:How do you know Robert didn't as well?
i suppose i don’t. but just doing an armchair calculation of his unavoidable expenses such as payroll, development and fabrication, utilities, supplies, equipment, etc.. vs money coming in, i can’t fathom how he could’ve. but i’m not an insider, so i can’t say for sure.
1 week later
1 week later
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I have zero idea how any of this works.
Can someone explain why RM hasn’t been arrested/indicted for something yet?
Is that forthcoming?
the SEC is only empowered to bring civil complaints related to public and private securities. I believe they are able to then refer the matter to the State and/or Federal Prosecutor to bring Criminal charges. My guess is they would wait to do that until after they have proven their case and there's enough evidence for prosecutors to follow through.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Where was the critical thinking when pinball news was acting as a free PR firm for them for 2 years?
Don’t blame them for giving him so much press as RM was a good interview and they got space
To fill, but, well, a little of this editorializing would have been nice to see early on.
well, I'm listening to the interview as we speak. and if you pay enough attention to Jonathan and Martin's reactions to some of Robert's answers, there's a whole bunch of editorializing. It's just subtle and the listener needs to read between the lines.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Cool, I never listened to those. I just remember the press releases and printed softball interviews when he was making his initial "Pinball is Easy" splash.
i should point out there are also definitely moments where i'm fairly certain they're eating and adjusting themselves in between questions.
Quoted from toyotaboy:In case anyone wants to read through Robert's postings
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution?tq=&tu=deeproot
wow, this is some seriously sociopathic shit...
Quoted from DudeRegular:Have you heard of 8 minute abs?
HAAA!! i just pulled that up on YouTube right before you commented! it's exactly the same thing!
"alright, ok, i see where you're going. that's good. unless someone comes up with 6 minute abs. then you're in trouble."
Quoted from herbertbsharp:I'm still thinking the possibility is he ran the investment dollars through a payroll company and diverted that money to himself rather than paying employees. He was probably stupid enough to think he was going to get massive amounts of pre-orders on pinball and be able to use that money to pay employees back (maybe only enough to keep them on the hook, just like investors in the fund) instead of manufacturing the machines. Given his behavior it would make sense he would then keep delaying pinball machine delivery and manufacturing, keeping the pinball deposit people on the hook. Ponzis within a Ponzi.
there are so many ways to launder money in this type of operation, i can't even list them all. and while the amount he laundered is a far cry from the most ever, there may be some kind of a record broken in the number of sources of the funds. he had money from investors, banks, pinball customers, AND the US Govt through PPP loans (i.e. us, the federal tax payers)!!! Hell, he probably even "borrowed" $20 from Steve for an Uber a few times.
did I ever tell you guys about the first time I met John?..
Some of you might remember my first business in NYC, Reciprocal Skateboards and Pinball, in the E. Village. So around 2008/2009, we were still kinda' new, as it was before we expanded into the storefront next door and tripled our size. We had this really tiny bathroom that couldn't have been more than 3 feet from our counter. It was pretty nasty and the door had this gaping hole towards the bottom, so you can clearly see the feet and ankles of the person taking a dump (it was a skateshop, give us a break!). Anyway, our good friend Eddie Cramer comes in with another gentleman I'd never seen before, and before I can even say "Hi" to Eddie or introduce myself to his friend, the friend eagerly asks, "Hey, do you have a bathroom I can use?!". I can tell by the look in his eyes what is currently taking priority for him, as I've certainly been there myself. So I say "Sure, right through there.. please excuse the hole in the door.". The guy quickly scurries in there, like as if something is gonna happen, like it or not. The Belt and zipper are the next noises I couldn't help but hear. It was straight out of a Farrelly Brother's movie. Eddie excitedly says to me "Do you know who that is?". I said, "Ummm, the guy who's about to blow up my bathroom?!". Eddie chuckles and says "No, but you know what he's famous for, right?". I said, "No, but I hope it's for washing his hands, if he plans on playing pinball with you!".
Anyway, he did manage to stink it up quite a bit, but I got to talk to him for a while after. Ironically most of the discussion revolved around patents. I vividly remember that he told me that the Rudy head in Funhouse alone has over 100 patents. And he told me about many of the patents he had in his name.
A few months later I saw he was selling these grab-bags of pinball development-related collectibles (schematics, drawings, etc..), so I paid him $400 for one. They were supposed to be hand picked by him, and each order would be different in what it contained. Perfect for any pinball enthusiast. I was going to give it to my friend Steve Marsh for his Birthday, as he was a huge fan of his. 4 months, and 10 excuses later, I still hadn't gotten what I paid for, and only got my money back after I threatened to report it to Paypal.
In all fairness, he did tack an additional $10 (maybe $20) on to the refund, unrequested by me, for my troubles. I can only assume that was from later buyers 
But I also got all the warning I needed to know not to ever give a dime towards his future pinball ventures. So it really turned out to be a great meeting.
Quoted from Txcoastal1:2000 Film Boiler Room
--fake investment firm
I worked there. No joke. First job out of college in 1996. My job ended w the FBI raiding the place, while I was still a trainee. Everything you see in the film is 100% balls on accurate. Even that scene. That is almost verbatim what the guy who interviewed us said, even to the throwing the car keys on the table.
Quoted from Sidekick74:Is it me or shouldn't all of the employees at Deeproot be held somewhat accountable to the status of the company as a pinball company?
if i worked at any company where i took a job because i was told we were going to create something great, and i got paid a fair amount of money regularly to work hard and do my job, all while being curious why things kept not going as they were told to me that they would, and being force fed constantly piling bullshit by the fraudulent sociopathic salesman who organized the whole thing to compensate for those failures and keep the charade going, yet i didn't know enough about that stuff to know that he was a fraudulent sociopathic salesman who had no chance at success, and then suddenly the rug got pulled out from under me, the job ended, my paychecks stopped, where i live is in question, the project was completely bust, now i had to figure out to do with my life and future, and somehow i have to now explain it to my friends and family, while not even fully understanding it myself, causing me a sever amount of self-doubt and depression.... the absolutely LAST THING i would want in the world would be some stranger, looking in on it for sheer curiosity, with absolutely no inside knowledge of the circumstances or way it all went down, going on the internet and proposing the idea that the employees had some sort of responsibility or hold accountability for what just occurred.
but that's just me.
Quoted from Manimal:How about "No Ball save.....the Deeproot Story"......
i know it's fun to think about, but the reality is the Pinball Division was just a small part of the grand scheme. it would get a small mention in any kind of screenplay about him. let alone, make up the title.
Quoted from yancy:But it might be the most comedically rich. Fleecing retirees for your kid's private school is a tired trope at this point. Blowing half your fortune on a game that catches fire? Now THAT's television.
great point.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:The pinball stuff (which includes deeproot tech and deeproot studios) was surely the primary money sink that sunk the fund. It wasn't deeproot sports and entertainment (though I'm sure Robert wasted $ there too).
So I think it's a major part of this disaster, and hope that some reporters will pick up on this because that's one of the angles that could really help this get some mainstream coverage.
Normies hearing that a guy broke however many laws that ended up trashing a $60 million fund and 300 people's investments trying, and failing, to build pinball machines, which most people don't even realize are still a thing? That's one hell of a story
i'll be looking forward to the actual numbers and details of the fund's origins, what money went where, and how it dissolved. there's still a lot to be unpacked.
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