Hudsonville, MI
20,000 + posts summed up in one post.
"Catfished"
(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Anyone who believes deep root is NOT a scam is an easy mark.
"Con" man is short for confidence. He must exude confidence and suck you into the money machine.
Ways Robert gained your confidence... Not just quad manufacturing, but Octo! Not just a few titles, but over TWENTY!!! Going to produce more pins than all others combined!!! Innovation beyond your wildest dreams!!!
Please people, they raised a ton of money selling snake oil, are trying to ponzi an already ponzied game (which blows my mind that it's been done twice now with JP) and they will keep it going until every last penny is siphoned off by them.
There is no pinball company. Just a classic con man taking your money. Facts.
Quoted from Honch:Its amazing that the same title was used in two separate scans.
I literally posted this seconds after you lol
Quoted from iceman44:Just plain ignorance. They didn’t raise the money selling pinball!! Check your facts before you wade into the cesspool brother.
The pinball part is NOT a Ponzi. Lol
They raised money, and then promised to build pinball
Time will tell my friend. Bookmark this post and eventually we will have resolution, one way or another.
So, is this the "Final five days of Deep Root?"
If RM is so smart, why not mine some gold and fund his 22 games?
He may have been correct when he stated he was a jack of all trades, but he didn't finish the statement, master of none.
How embarrassing.
Quoted from toyotaboy:if deeproot was a record company:
So true lol
I think it would've worked until "Dat Snatch" joined in
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:We are all wondering .... where’s the Pinbar?
In the lobby of the Pinhotel
Quoted from ufotofu:I mean, the fact that they're selling it as a deeproot innovation with the PinPod™ trademark (which they might not even have registered) is pretty misleading. And then to charge $900 for it. I wonder what their markup is for stamping the deeproot logo on the side.
"We can't ship pins in cardboard. That will never work. We need a $900 solution. We are innovators! Send us more deposits!" Laughs all the way to the bank... Until the money runs out
Quoted from TreyBo69:Works for me. A standard interior door is 32” and the box is 31”
If I put them in my workshop I have to pop the door off the hinge though.
36" doors should be the norm on the exterior. Very few appliances fit 32" without damage.
Quoted from Mr68:Cary Hardy who raised that issue to which Robert said, (paraphrasing) Most people unbox their games in the garage (before moving it inside).
Robert also added "But in the end, this won't be an issue either way."
To which Cary responded "Why is that?"
Robert smiled wryly, and said "I could tell you now, but you just need to be patient for my next update..."
Quoted from Mr68:He said he gave the designers 30 days to come up with a minority report prototype.
I'm thinking they missed their deadline.
Gonna have to wait for another "update" to find out.
The suspense is killing me....
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I honestly don’t care what else happens.
If I ever get to flip an actual Food Truck in any stage of development, I will personally consider the Deep Root project to be an unconditional success.
Pretty sure you would be arrested for flipping a food truck in new York. Plus you would have to be extremely strong to do so. But more feasible than playing a pin from dr
Quoted from frolic:From what's been said, the pinball division had been cut off of more money from the deeproot fund. If the PPP money is also gone, and no machines can be built to make any money, can this be the end of the runway?
They never left the terminal...
Quoted from Mr68:One of my many issues with Iceman is his over confident, bold statements. He always speaks in absolutes and you're a dummy if you disagree. Despite his long track record of failed predictions, bad decisions and skirting the truth, people become inspired by his rhetoric in the moment. He's very convincing.
Wow, Kim. It is almost like Iceman and Robert are twins!
Quoted from bigehrl:Because unlike Robert, Bernie at least made himself a shit-ton of money in the process.
[quoted image][quoted image]
How do you know Robert didn't as well?
Quoted from bigehrl:i suppose i don’t. but just doing an armchair calculation of his unavoidable expenses such as payroll, development and fabrication, utilities, supplies, equipment, etc.. vs money coming in, i can’t fathom how he could’ve. but i’m not an insider, so i can’t say for sure.
I am guessing his budget went like this: "One for you, two for me. One for you, three for me..." Etc.
People, please!
Robert didn't lose millions. He knew they weren't making anything, ZERO, NADA, NOTHING. For years!
He knew they didn't have manufacturing, parts, labor, any ability to build a pin. But he acted like it was only weeks away for YEARS, all while making bigger and bolder statements.
It is classic con man play. Keep it going as long as possible to pocket all you can. And the sale in 2020 was his last cash grab
There are many ways to hide money. I bet he has a large stash thanks to investors and gullible pinball buyers. It's just so fucking sad there are people that live their lives like this
Quoted from TreyBo69:Nah, that Utah studio was real. His rent is easy to guesstimate.
I'm not saying he didn't spend millions on wasted things. You have to keep the facade going.
I'm just saying I bet he has a large stash from this whole ordeal. Probably hidden deep in the roots.
Quoted from benheck:To Roberts, I loathe to say, credit they were basically giving the place away.
Wanna say sub 500k?
Upvote if you think Iceman should buy deep root!
Keep the ball rolling. This is too good to end!
Quoted from underlord:Cocaine, thank you. Crack is for the financially impotent.
Well, technically, crack is short for crack cocaine.
Unfortunately, I learned this from Edwin's poor choices before his demise.
Quoted from Roostking:Ever heard of the term, "History repeats itself?" There is a reason it's a saying, JS.
Let's expand to the more complete saying...
"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it."
Like so many that believed Raza would happen
Quoted from JodyG:Its bad for anyone else who wants to start a pinball company some day. You telling me that large scale scammers don't hurt the pinball community as a whole?
Not if you don't ask for money before you produce a product.
Quoted from toyotaboy:Anyone actually read the 575 fund:
https://sec.report/Document/0001652459-20-000001
What's strange is people like ICE keep talking about this 40 million dollar fund, but according to that page only 4.8 million of possible 37.5 million has been sold as of this past December.
[quoted image]
I don't know how much Robert has saved up over the years, but 4.8 million plus 1.8 in PPP loans = 6.6 million
If they are truly easily burning a million dollars/year currently, they have easily burned 3+ by now (not including building upgrades, larger staff he once employed like dennis nordman, dozens of artists). The numbers don't lie.
Also how do you furlough employees if you have PPP loans? Isn't that the point of that, so you don't have to furlough employees?
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from BMore-Pinball:I think they are just fishing
Not sure if you read the whole article, but it would seem they are exposing themselves to a lot of liability if were/are just fishing.
Quoted from frolic:Interesting, I wonder how much fishing like that goes on by law firms for everything under the sun.
Maybe they actually caught some fish in deeproots wishing well?!?!
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Here are example screenshots to show you what I mean:
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Plus I'd be disinclined to submit my info to a law company with a generic wordpress favicon.
They could've saved a lot of time and headache by starting off with "Concerned with your investment in Deeproot pinball??"
Quoted from Greaseman:These are 2 of our guinea pigs, Hope and Izzy. They aren't coming out from this box until Deeproot ships a functioning pinball machine. Let's wish them luck living together in that box.[quoted image]
Edwin smiles from above on your amazing rodents!
Last I checked, Bob wasn't registered with the Texas Bar Association to practice law. I could be wrong though.
Either way, he isn't going to spend any of his stashed millions hiring a lawyer to defend a defunct company.
Quoted from DudeRegular:You want to send money to these guys? On purpose?
Actually, just want to know if they are willing to fill the vacated spots?
YOLO, combined with FOMO. It is a beautiful thing.
Quoted from ForceFlow:Second, with the mountain of red flags that have been pointed out, why in the world would you want to send any money to deeproot?
I would be privy to inside information.
Quoted from gambit3113:This is actually an interesting angle.
And if the answer is yes, and they take a deposit then (at this point if they know they can't produce the game) it becomes criminal.
Quoted from TreyBo69:I sometimes question people who think JP isn't pretty linear. The map does not have that many permutations to it and isn't much of a focus. It's neat but some people make it out to be more deep than it is.
It's not like choosing minor villain in Batman 66 or having a character select like GoT, Stern Star Wars, or JJP POTC. Those can really change how the game plays. Stern Star Trek is one of my favorites with how you can fill out your mode grid for rewards or repeat modes to add permeant shot multipliers on particular shots.
Maybe I just haven't spent enough time with Jurassic Park to get that level of nuance...
Please stop talking about actual games and gameplay.
That is NOT what the Deeproot thread is all about!
Quoted from benheck:And don't forget the pinball reality TV show he was trying to spool up.
That would have worked at DR. What a shit show with all the drama... T.v. gold
Quoted from Mr68:Well then give my comment an up-vote you stingy bastard. I can admire it along with the one I finally got from Levi 6 years ago.
Up voted because you called Ben a stingy bastard 
Quoted from TreyBo69:A whole month is a very long time to go without pay.
What possible legal issue could stop them from making payroll? Sounds like crap, but I'm not a lawyer.
Legally Bob isn't required to pay them out of his pocket, so it could be that.
Legally, Bob can't rob a cash advance store and pay them, so it could be that.
Legally, it could be a lot of things.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:I've found a way out. Hopefully jpop still has the source code and turner logic can do a raza asset swap. At least they don't have to update the color palette.
[quoted image]
"The hip way to learn"
Hip? Really?? AHAHAHAHA!!
Out of touch.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:. For this kind of project, you have to actually enjoy losing money on pinball scams...
It's enjoyable when it isn't your own money.
Just ask Bob. Oh, that's right... He's busy right now.
Quoted from Mr68:[quoted image]
Make another milk carton with $42 million dollars on it.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:No way. If he really blew all of the investor money on dumb pinball stuff he would be fuuuuuuucked.
You mean, he would have legal issues? Hmmm....
Quoted from toyotaboy:if you do a plate search, theres no longer a JPOP license plate registered in illinois (or Texas for that matter). maybe he sold the range rover to pay bills while he's furloughed.
**tried a zero for the O, still nope.
Did u try JPOOP ?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:BTS
[quoted image]
I liked the pet pics waaaaay better...
Ok. I'll say what everyone is thinking.(and saying in a much nicer tone)
How can people be so fucking stupid to believe it's going to happen.
It's laughable. deeproot is dead. It is squished liked a big on the windshield.
It's over.
Quoted from Beechwood:Ok. I'll say what everyone is thinking.(and saying in a much nicer tone)
How can people be so fucking stupid to believe it's going to happen.
It's laughable. deeproot is dead. It is squished liked a big on the windshield.
It's over.
I finally lost my shit and posted this, two posts before the reveal of the SEC post.
I feel vindicated for using such strong language.
I said all along Bob was personally using funds and paying himself.
My intuition is spot on again. Rest in pieces deeproot
Quoted from iceman44:. It’s also why I didn’t take any “refund” money in the first place, we knew where it was coming from and not Robert himself.
I !
So you KNEW.
You KNEW he was stealing money from his funds to give refunds???
That is why you are hated here. You fucked a lot of people while hiding what was really going on.
No defense for this. PERIOD!
Quoted from flynnibus:Its just his latest deflection. Go back to his posts - he didn’t even claim with certainty where pinball’s money came from…. Just basically said maybe…
He told us a thousand times he believed in the game and could afford any loss…. That’s why he didn’t take a refund. Same with so many other believers…. They thought the upside was bigger than the money they had tied up. They all wanted their exclusive game they thought was loss-proof because it’s special and rare.
Don’t believe the hindsight- there is plenty of history here in ghe thread until the faithful go back and start deleting stuff
Makes me wonder if he was involved as a silent partner. Yikes!
Quoted from Stemmy:No one in there right mind will touch this again. Unless it's a RM clone with a giant ego that thinks this is easy.
I have classified info that there are secret groups working on stuff... But this may be just a pipe dream.
Quoted from iceman44:F off w that BS
If I knew he was stealing money like Jpop did early on I would have gone after him right then.
I lost out like some other big boys did.
I rolled the dice. Plain and simple. It didn’t work out.
While you can be thrilled it went against me I don’t care, it’s really not a happy dance day for the “investors” and what’s coming next. That part I care about
I'm not happy. Vindicated, yes.
Quoted from Beechwood:I'm not happy. Vindicated, yes.
And I have no idea how a trained lawyer couldn't see this coming a mile away. Scary.
Quoted from dr_nybble:This is a civil case, not criminal. No jail. Read the "Prayer for Relief" to see what they are asking for as remedy.
Wife #2 feeling pretty good right now.
I'm out on this thread. Got my pm from ice to f off, so I better.
It's an unforeseen legal issue....
Quoted from flynnibus:I don't think anyone called the embezzlement angle....
I did.
Quoted from Beechwood:I'm just saying I bet he has a large stash from this whole ordeal. Probably hidden deep in the roots.
This. Called it.
Quoted from flynnibus:To be fair - your first post in this thread was 22 days ago... not exactly early forecasting there
True, but still called it
I know bob's type.
Stay away from Bob.
Don't forget, every transaction, wire transfer, every penny Bob funneled to himself is taxable income. He will owe huge taxes and penalties on that income. That is, if the IRS doesn't just charge home with tax fraud first and he will still owe a huge sum.
Edit:. And embezzlement charges that would include anyone who partook in spending the money, such as his (ex)wives. The report shows they all used credit cards paid by the 575 fund.
Quoted from iceman44:Yeah I don’t know all the facts .... It’s also why I didn’t take any “refund” money in the first place, we knew where it was coming from.
Who is we? You said "I" didn't take a refund because "we" knew where the money was coming from.
You didn't know ALL the facts, but you knew more than others, but just decided not to share where the money was coming from? Would've been a nice heads up to people who had deposits down.
Quoted from NoQuarters:The 2 prototypes are probably gone too. Probably given to an employee or two in exchange for partial remuneration of pay they never got.
There isn't squat left.
Looks like there were lots of pins in the break room
Quoted from beelzeboob:Hey, guys...I hate to (kinda) go off topic here, but does anybody notice that RM's face is too small for his head, or are my meds wearing off?
Or maybe I've just been watching too many cartoons... [quoted image]
His head is definitely too big for his brain, I noticed that.
Quoted from Pixel8Arcade:If any RAZA machines ever make it out into the world they could be worth a nice amount based on rarity and lineage….even if the gameplay is ass.
Then my homebrew is pricesless, because it doesn't exist either, but shoots awesome!
Dreams of Ice: the slow melt of a Pinball Ponzi Scheme.
What ever happened to Iceman anyway? Texas heat make him go all Frosty the Snowman on us?
Someone look for a hat in a puddle of water. It may smell a little like Jack, then you know you found the right one.
Quoted from benheck:I was going to do that after I rage quite Spooky 3 years ago. Then at almost the same time Blobert announces he is making it.
Was very sad. Because I knew Blobert is the kind of slime who would sue me for doing the same public domain theme as him. And also because he'd completely fuck up the concept.
But now? Maybe I should.
No you shouldn't. Trust me. It's sounds cool in your head, but in reality, no
Quoted from Rarehero:I find the name "Haggis" to be viscerally repulsive.
This^^^ So much agree
May as well name it "Vomit" pinball. Nothing against them, but the name... ugh.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:JPOP could be managed in the future. You would have to set short term goals & make sure he stays focused. After all the failures he has had since the glory days finishing with the closing of WMS. You would think that he will have to drastically change & take a lower job to move forward. He has some good ideas, along with wacky & poor ones. That is why he has continued dreaming the last 20 years.
There is likely some good that will come out of this failure with Deeproot. Bad to throw people under the bus when you are just hoping for a paying job. Lots of talented people that hopefully we will see what they were working on.
All new starts & even the big players can go under. Pinball Manufacturing is HARD, so is getting good financial backing.
What the actual fuck is this? Absolutely delusional.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Damn, “former pinball entrepreneur?”
That’s gotta sting!
Nope. I bet it pumps him up.
He never was a pinball entrepreneur, he was a boss of a company that produced nothing.
Saying he was in the past would mean ( at least in his head) he was somebody important in pinball.
He wasn't. He isn't.
Just your run of the mill snake oil salesman.
Quoted from DennisNordman:Well, I'll be darned, that's my foamcore layout. Built around March of 2019, well before anybody suspected fraud from Robert. Yeah, Robert bragged about a lot of things he was going to accomplish, but I, nor any of the other employees, knew anything about any fraudulent deals made by Robert. Nobody knew anything until the SEC charges were filed a couple weeks ago. I left in fall of 2019 for a couple of reasons. One was because, in my opinion, he was wasting investors money on equipment that a start-up shouldn't be buying until they had a couple of games produced.
[quoted image]
Here's the funny thing... RM thought he had to innovate so much, jam tech and over the top new ideas into pins to appeal to the younger buyers.
Well, my wife is much younger than me (33) and of all the pins I've owned, her favorite by far is EATPM. She said I can never sell it. Why? Because it's simple but FUN. She doesn't want monitors and screens and high tech b.s. Just some fun shots, fun call outs, and rules that are understandable without a degree.
Good job on EATPM, Mr. Nordman. It still holds up today.
You can't be blackmailed if you have nothing to hide.
This gives me pause.
But if it's just a mess he can't deal with right now, that's understandable. Take a break. if it's the threats, fuck them. Anonamous means they don't want to be outed either.
Quoted from m00nmuppet:I don't think this is necessarily true. You can be blackmailed with the threat of an accusation, even if the accusation is false.
True. But with his reputation he should be fine.
This shit just got another shade of fucked up.
What ever happened to the tag line I had at the end of every RGP post I had used thousands of times?
"Hey, It's Only Pinball!"
Quoted from PismoArcade:After being on this planet for over six decades and working where I did, I can't tell you how incorrect this statement is.
Desparate people convince themselves that their suspicions are real.
There's an old adage...Repeat a lie three times and it becomes the truth. I've known many people who swear things happened that never did; (my brother being one).
It's pinball. How can someone blackmail you over pinball?
None of this adds up.
But I just played some awesome games on my new BSD. Time to hit the hay.
Tomorrow's a new day!
Quoted from Stuieb84:What is a PIA?
Pooping Involved Antics
Quoted from frolic:The fact that these machines were in the building reveals Robert was buying his own bullshit.
And he was buying the bullshit with investors money.
2 months later
Quoted from kst8cat:Wait, how in the world are they going to sell corn for $5 per ounce? The average weight of an ear of corn is 8 ounces, so that would make it $40 per ear. The normal price I see it for in the grocery store is 40 cents per ear. So who would pay 100 times the normal price of corn?
$40 per ear? Unheard of!!
1 month later
FAILURE THOUGHT PROCESSES THAT (partially) DOOMED DEEPROOT:
DR employee: "Boss, screws for assembly are $0.002 cents per piece."
RM: "How about we mine for ore, process it into steel, and then fabricate our own screws. All in house. After we process 120 million screws, our cost will be $0.0019 per piece. Genius... MAKE IT HAPPEN!"
DR employee: "But Boss, that is enough screws for over 2,000,000 pinball machines!"
RM: "MAKE IT HAPPEN!!"
Quoted from benheck:Regarding original themes:
Stern just sold 1000 LEs of fucking RUSH in a few hours.
Deeproot couldn't move 75 units of RAZA.
Again, an unfathomable failure even before you get to the fraud part.
Listen to the man. Ben knows what he is talking about (i.e. AMH)
Full disclosure: Not a dig, just a fact. Everyone knows they didn't want or could've made many of them.
Quoted from benheck:I bet Spooky could move 300 "Vaulted" AMH's with new art easier than falling off a log.
I bet they could move 500 AMH!
They could sell 75 units based on Yankee Candles.
Hell, in todays market, they could move 50 Covid-19 machines that actually infect you.
Oh, Deeproot, what could have been had you been a genuine company.
2 months later
Quoted from greatwichjohn:.. you should make sure you treat your parts suppliers & vendors fairly & pay them what is owed (Jpop Fiasco pre Deeproot, & Deeproot). Same with getting product that was paid by faithful customers. There are people that know I was trying to possibly help make people whole with a pinball game.
Ummm... aren't you the one who mentioned 49 times you declared bankruptcy? That is what one does to NOT have to pay people.
Was deeproot offering you a job in the finance dept.?
1 week later
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Please do not reach out for help on a bible game. To hard to keep up on game play.
I think you're safe, bud
Quoted from jayhawkai:Would love to work with this mystery person as long as he/she earns at least $24K annually from a U.S. pension.
One word... Beer Money!!
1 week later
1 week later
Quoted from turbo20lbs:[quoted image]
LMAO premature celebration in the background HAHAHAHA
Quoted from toyotaboy:Watching the video, I'm not sure if it's celebration or if that worker is attempting to show Robert how he needs to be holding the playfield up high in order for that mech to engage properly.
No, it isn't. Nobody shows Robert how to do anything. Robert just knows. 
On second look, I am pretty sure it is Napoleon Dynamite doing the premature celebration.
3 weeks later
Quoted from littlecammi:I heard that Chris Turner has been added to the cast for the next season of Storage Wars.
There is only one logical conclusion: Chris Turner met up with Greatwhich John for discussions of bringing RAZA to reality. 29 beers later they established the newest underground pinball company.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Anyone can reach out to me about pinball production, & or parts production. Going through my personal bankruptcy, & enjoying my retirement. Anything towards pinball production will be done by me locally. My wife still has her parents, & my brother is in Austin, Texas. So if I were to get involved with a major pinball company in Texas, Multimorphic p3 would be a logical choice. Thank god I did not get employed at deeproot.
I rest my case.
1 week later
Quoted from benheck:.... has now exceeded the time spent putting a man on the moon.
.
"One small step for Robert... one giant leap for pinball"
This is not a secret message, you guys are wrong.
Rumor is that "someone" in the pinball hobby took a part of his Canadian pension and bought the domain. After a long night of sippin' the suds, he decided to put his touch on the landing page. Unfortunately those last 14 Labatt's kicked in, he passed out and his head landed on the keyboard.
It's not an encrypted message, just a well meaning person trying to help the hobby... 12 ounces at a time.
drweb (resized).pngQuoted from greatwichjohn:The key thing I keep trying to hint at, & might be in play. Whether it happens or not we will see:
.
Wait... are we still talking about drinking piss?
1 week later
Quoted from greatwichjohn:There is still lots of room for companies that can actually manufacture pinball machines, & parts.
And plenty of room for word searches, apparently.
1 week later
Quoted from Medisinyl:EDIT: "Look deeper. It has been hiding in plain sight. New word, eight letters. Think dino playing a children's game. P.S. There is indeed a prize for the one who first discovers the secret."
T-rex= J-Pop
Childrens game= Pinball
8 letters= Popadiuk
Sigh...
1 week later
The saga continues, and we now know the secret game license he wants.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/moby-dick-let-s-talk-whales-and-whale-watching
Quoted from LORDDREK:I don’t think so. He might contract out a scammer but the cash isn’t for him he wants to spend it on pro talent. That’s not a scam. It’s not the wisest course to take from his starting point but not a scam…
Need to take this juice to the trailer park boys thread Boys!
Quoted from Scandell:This thread is a cluster wreck.
It was 629 pages ago...
1 week later
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Maybe be my Big Whale for $100k US.
Every time I see the "US" behind the $100k I chuckle.
So... If my intuition is correct, this is that dude from the software company that did code for DR. Is he gonna actually try to make it happen? Talk about a shit storm if he does. There are (obviously) some very cheated people out there that will not take kindly to it.
Quoted from Beechwood:So... If my intuition is correct, this is that dude from the software company that did code for DR. Is he gonna actually try to make it happen? Talk about a shit storm if he does. There are (obviously) some very cheated people out there that will not take kindly to it.
Well boys, I called it.
Quoted from Richthofen:Did this guy really say "My company is not deeproot 2.0" right after he gave away a RAZA backglass?
It is a good sign he gave away the backglass, I doubt he would if they were going to continue on with RAZA. Hopefully this means that chapter is dead.
Last thing people need is more salt in the wounds.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:True.
But he seems sincere.
I'm sincere too. But I've been staring at my cut play field for 2 years, thinking of a layout, play field design and how to move forward.
Dreams are easy. Execution is hard.
And yes Levi, I know the sarcasm. I agree.
Quoted from benheck:Send a Looper back to 2011 and shoot me so this fucking game never exists.
Looper sent.
Sleep well, Ben.
Quoted from benheck:This industry is insane.
I surmise it is the reason we are all here... On the razors edge.
Quoted from mbeardsley:and none of it good...
Other than the SEC stepping in.
Just because you "can" raise the Titanic doesn't mean you "should".
Let RAZA rest in peace on the ocean floor.
Focus on food cart or any one of the other stupid ideas from DR. Or better yet, start over and make Turner pinball it's own identity.
Quoted from ZNET:4) Turner Pinball plans to compile a package of RAZA assets to assist homebrew enthusiasts, strictly for noncommercial use;
A sound business plan. Should be financially successful 
Quoted from Roostking:Seriously?
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Chris Turner would have no problems moving forward with a build contractor.
If he has a viable business model
If he has an experienced team in place
If he has adequate funding
If he has excellent managerial skills
If he has large amounts of time and energy to put towards a project
Quoted from Scandell:Boo. You lose points for sharing the link here.
It's a good redirect to keep that vaudeville act off of the deep rot freeway.
Quoted from spfxted:For now I just have to take it that he means well and will try to keep us all in the loop. I understand that he may not have made up his mind on a few things....
If he means well, he will finish raza and make everyone whole who lost money on deposits or paid in full. Don't see that happening.
Resurrecting a shit show, having inside information(and keeping silent on what he knows about dr) and buying insurance policies all adds up to a stink that can't be ignored.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Well yeah. Of course.
But where's the fun in that?
Robert is an expert at pleading the 5th, nothing to hide, right?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:RAZA: Deeproot trying to fulfill Zidware's orders was a bad idea. Turner trying to fulfill Deeproot's would be many times worse.
Turner acquired (or is trying to acquire) deeproot assets from a bankruptcy liquidation and wants nothing to do with jpop. Robert (allegedly?) acquired Zidware assets that should have been part of a liquidation before they could be and launched his company around jpop.
I understand this. But if people say "seems like Turner means well" the only scenario I can think of is making people whole.
Finishing raza and profiting from it is not well meaning. But who successfully goes into business without expecting profits? This whole thing stinks to high heaven.
Quoted from Mr68:This is the first I've heard of a RAZA home brew kit. Did I miss something?
He vaguely mentioned this in his last video. Other than a couple people who bought unfinished razas, WTF is going to build a raza home brew?
This all reminds me of my last business I sold. Established in 1977, I owned it for 15 years. I sold it to some dreamer in 2019 who operated it on emotion instead of logic and profit. It just closed today permanently.
Business is money, there is no room for emotion. This Turner experiment will fail. Quote me on it.
Quoted from Roostking:What if he actually takes pinsides general advice, doesn't say a thing and then just releases a game? Isnt that what we want? I mean, I doubt that's what hes gonna do but a maybe..
If this were true, he wouldn't be putting out vids, you are correct in doubting this scenario.
The only reason he is answering "our" questions is either a need to feed his ego in the spotlight, or he feels he needs the pinside base to be on his side to succeed. Or both. By associating his company with deep rot, he started in a very, very deep hole that he is trying to get out of.
1 month later
Quoted from JStoltz:Nothing groundbreaking here, but wanted to add that I checked with a buddy who works for Boeing and he confirmed the presence of a "Robert J Mueller" in his Boeing contacts list, either Chicago or Seattle (said he couldn't tell which).
Edit: sent him the screenshot of the "Robert M." LinkedIn. He confirmed that it appears to be THE Bobby Mueller.
Glad I don't own stock in Boeing.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Update: Looks like the 213-pager is about the car wash.
People who understand and enjoy creative bookkeeping and money moving may enjoy digging into the details of this one.
It's a fucking lost episode of breaking bad
Quoted from benheck:Boeing is a major US war contractor, and they hire something being legally pursued by the US government?
The mind boggles. .
Seriously, for this reason alone we need to alert someone at Boeing they are employing a "potential" embezzler.
2 weeks later
1 month later
Quoted from TreyBo69:The concept of the PinBar is neat...For what benefits again? A virtual magna save button? A different way to select things in game vs flipper buttons?
Something to slam with your first after a cheap drain.
2 months later
Quoted from benheck:I can finally make Bible Adventures!
Swear on it??
1 week later
Quoted from Mr68:Charles Ponzi certainly made a name for himself. But why do people overlook the Newman - Kramer bottle deposit scheme of 1996.
Now that was a caper.
[quoted image]
Unfortunately for them, the fine for redeeming out of state cans in Michigan is $10,000. That's 100,000 cans to break even.
And those mail trucks are not good on gas.
1 month later
Quoted from Roostking:Wasnt even there that long, did he even make a probation period? I mean its Boeing, they hire lots a people, doesnt make them special.
Oh, but Robert is as special as they come. Just ask him about mining gold...
Quoted from Mr68:We're innovating luggage storage and passenger seating.
[quoted image]
I giggle everytime I see this. Deep poop summed up in one Gif.
1 week later
Quoted from greatwichjohn:... continue to drive up all old pinball games in price. Better than the stock market over the last 25 years.
I just lost my financial advisor and you sound very knowledgeable in the field of financials. Are you available for a consult?
Quoted from greatwichjohn:You guys are a good laugh. Deeproot Pinball was interested in me moving to Texas & working there, but I was not going before I got my pension. Same with Andrew Heighway, that I provided some guidance which was likely not used towards printing & production. I have had production agreements with Gottlieb LLC & Planetary Pinball on glass production. Still have past dealings with Dave Fix towards production of glass in the past. Rick & I were looking at old playfields for production but that fell through, & who knows might still be possible in the future. Very few people have the balls to make new playfields. But carry on about I do not deal with industry people. Some groups do not want to be exposed that I deal with around the world, but you guys can believe the contrary to that. I will say that lately Pinball Adventures has changed from we are open to selling or helping out, to do not contact us in the future. No problem with that, & they are on their own for production stuff. Not what I would do but there you go, that rail system is shit along with the Deeproot pinball playfield lift system.
I took your post at face value and concluded... John, you ARE the Godfather of the pinball business.
Did Deeproot make you an offer you couldn't refuse?
1 month later
Quoted from Keylime:Could someone help me understand why this thread is still getting posts?
Because just like Retro Atomic Zombies, it will never die.
2 months later
Quoted from CLEllison:I'm no lawyer, but I'm wondering if his angle is exploiting the "willful intent" defense. If he goes into court and essentially says, "I was doing my best I promise! I just sucked at doing the job" and "I was told X,Y and Z from my attorneys and close investors ... I just did what I was told to be right". Pleading ignorance and looking humbled is the perfect play on jurors. He's a salesperson, he could sell it. Will he evade charges? Oh no. But could he effectively walk with little repercussion? I think so. Hell, I've seen a drug user lie to buy a gun and serve no time, proof anything can happen LOL
It's an uphill battle for him. He took investor money from a specific investment and used it for his own personal use and his own investments. That's a tough route to hoe.
4 weeks later
Quoted from sgtski1978:I'm genuinely looking forward to the response to the motion for summary judgement. I just feel it's going to be along the lines of "Everything that guy just said is bullshit. Thank you."
The fifth amendment is bullshit? Yeah, you may be right. That is 95% of what he said.
3 weeks later
2 weeks later
Quoted from Mr68:There are also a few nit pickers on Pinside.
And a lot of nose pickers...
1 week later
Quoted from Rocketrob:Are we able to attend this trial. I live about 3 hours away and I will go to this is we are allowed in the court room.
Please wear a "Pinball is hard!" t-shirt
1 week later
2 weeks later
Quoted from Inside:Welp - someone is going to have to take over refreshing the docket. I'm already at $50 in fees for this quarter - won't be downloading anything until the next year!
Just charge it to deeproot, that way it is free.
2 weeks later
The reasoning behind this failed Ponzi scheme comes down to two things. Robert's ego and greed.
He believed he could make profit from pinball. He was going to do it better and faster than anyone in history, no one could convince him otherwise. And he wanted that money. He had more wives, Hawaiian condos, and cruises to fund.
**I am not a profiler, but I do play one on Facebook.**
That someone was “ill-advised” by a lawyer or not, if they do something illegal they are responsible for their own actions. They might have a subsequent claim of malpractice against their attorney, but an attorney’s bad advice is not an excuse to committing a crime or performing some otherwise illegal act. It might be an argument to be made for mitigation of the charges or negotiating a plea deal, but it’s not going to excuse the behavior.
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