(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

1 year ago



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2 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #111 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by applejuice (1 year ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by vireland (86 days ago)


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#299 1 year ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Well if they haven't signed an exclusive deal I'm pretty sure they would be disputing it after all of these announcements.

Unless they're still busy working out a deal, then you don't talk in hope of getting hired and getting paid. No reason for the designers to make public statements and don't get hired anymore.

And about their quad thing assembly - maybe their plan is to hire Ben Heck who'll assemble the game at your home for $1000.

#329 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Honestly, I just cant figure out WHY he would have Jpop involved at all.

Must be for his patents. Maybe their masterplan is to sue Stern and settle that Stern will do assembly..

10 months later
#1962 7 months ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

More full time heads than all the other manufacturers combined? That seems overstated. Either that or potentially pushing up against Brooks' Law.

Just searched on linkedin for deeproot tech and I count about 25 people stating they work there;. and that's only including Barry Oursler as game designer, JPop and others previously announced are not in that list. So I think his statement won't be far from the truth..

Some of the profiles (3D animators, story writer) give me the impression they're more like a software/games company than a pinball manufacturer so I'm really curious to what they will release.

2 weeks later
#2150 7 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

...and not what Zidware sold or advertised. JPOP sold the idea of magic girl as a "can't miss exclusive" boutique game limited to 16 examples. Zidware was never pitched as "with enough orders... we can make this happen" - it was pitched as an exclusive offer that people were hyped into FOMO and why they needed to buy before the product even existed. RAZA as well was purely a pre-sales model - not a "gather enough orders to make this a reality" sales pitch. Zidware never pitched uncertainty of the product's availability or their funding to make the project happen.
That's why it's not 'crowdsourcing' and simply pre-sales. I take it further to risky behavior as 'investing' because it was a "company" selling stuff for 5 figure numbers with no credibility and huge promises.
I really don't want to drag more JPOP reliving into this deeproot thread. I just wish people would stop dismissing that all the red flags were there all along - people just wanted to see what they wanted to see from the cards. The pre-order frenzy and "10k by christmas" effect was in full swing.

It was indeed pre-sales and nothing else.
For those asking why people wouldn't understand it wasn't crowdfunding or investing - this was back in 2010 or 2011, crowdfunding was non-existant then, kickstarter probably didn't exist ?

The only comparable project was Gene's BBB. Gene basically did the same - presales. He made some flyers, went to a pinball show with a BBB, announced he was going to make it and collected money. Then people didn't hear from him for a long time (except some rumours) and suddenly BBB's got delivered.
There were no failed DIY pinball projects at that time.

It was known that Gene had problems and underestimated costs, but not all details were public. John had a much higher price so people assumed John had done his math and was able to produce the game. And for those thinking his number was too low, don't compare to pinball prices now. Stern games sold for about $4000 (or less). I don't remember what price John asked but it was a multiple of Sterns price (3x more ?).. so it all didn't sound too unrealistic.

The only real difference between Gene and JPop is that Gene had a game to make. JPop still had to invent everything. Had he been tinkering in his own free time and made up something (instead of paying himself for doing it) he might indeed have pulled it off.

Btw if I remember correct when John announced it (it was on my facebook too but I don't find the post anymore) he was only going to make 6 magic girl machines. He sold out in a day and then increased the number.

The first time I thought it was weird was in 2012 (did found that post on my flippers.be facebook page) when I got a zidware tshirt from him and he gave tshirts to everyone asking for them on my facebook page. My first thought was it was generous from him but I found it weird - after all JPop was a one man business, his games were already pre-sold, and as he was sending tshirts he would be paying that out of his own profits ? (this was all pre raza / ben heck / ..)

6 months later
#3962 17 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It seemed kind of bitchy. He originally just told ben "Stay out of it" and then edited it to add the bizarre legal disclaimer.
Ben is ALWAYS pointing out what a hot mess Jpop is and it's probably starting to annoy them over there at Deep Root. Not sure why'd they care, not givin' a fuck is their credo.

As John hid behind nda's theres maybe still an nda active which forbids Ben to give comments / insights about John or DR ?
And this was a warning to remind Ben about it ?

Just my thought how I interpreted this comment

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