deeproot Pinball thread

10

#1215 5 years ago

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from Richthofen:
Didn’t BBB ruin Gene financially? And JJP had a second set of investors swoop in and rescue them right? In the meantime JJP’s initial 6K price has jumped to 9K as the reality of manufacturing hit them.
My problem with deep root is this “pinball is easy” braggadocio. No need for it. JJP had it too.
In contrast, I saw Gary Stern talk at Pinburgh. Guy is a class act. Acknowledges other vendors but is laser focused on his vision for the business. Are all Stern games home runs? Nope. But they deliver games and come up with designs and do it without “pinball is easy” and “quad manufacturing” BS.

The preorder price for an Emerald City LE WOZ was actually $6,500 back in about 2011, as I recall. Many enthusiasts deemed that price point to be outrageously high, even though the game was packed with endless high-end features. Oh. . .the good old days. . .

0

11

#1221 5 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:
funny thing is, as stupid as it was to preorder WOZ from a new company on their first pinball, some took it further and paid in full to to get free shipping. In spite of the roller coaster ride, all received their games. So $6.5k delivered for nib WOZ and no sales tax. Boom! a when-pigs-fly success story with a jackpot at the end of the rainbow.

Even preorder WOZECLE customers who, like me, elected to pay in installments, received an economic incentive for picking up the game at the JJP Lakewood, NJ facility. Because Lakewood was deemed an economic revitalization zone, sales tax was only 3.5 % as opposed to 7%.

Yet another benefit to picking up the game was that Jack dedicated considerable one-on-one time to the customer, autographed the cabinet and posed for photos.

Only a one hour drive for me made the trip a no-brainer. However, many preorder customers traveled considerable distances for these additional perks.

In retrospect, a magic-themed game would have been apropos for JJP's first game because with WOZ, Jack certainly pulled a rabbit out of the proverbial hat. The few renegade upstart companies, like Jersey Jack and Spooky, which weathered the storm and produced games deserve the admiration and support of the pinball community, in my opinion.

0

1

#2841 4 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=8001.60

I just revisited this circa 2013 Ben Heck video, which features Jpop discussing the pinball design process, in the context of Zidware's then ongoing projects. Toward the end (at 14:28), Jpop contends that less is often more. In a moment of self-awareness clarity, he presciently remarks:
"It's very easy to start, but very hard to finish."

0

#2961 4 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from lpeters82:
Here is a quick video of John Papadiuk talking about Retro Atomic Zombieland on the Ben Heck Show back in 2011.

See post #2841, a couple of pages back. As the adage goes, brilliant minds think alike, right?

0

#3080 4 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

I thought that ball tracking was long ago invented. Isn't that technology called a "video game."

0

9

#3321 4 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Aurich:
I think suing him is stupid. If you lost your money just admit you gambled it away, and should have always been prepared to lose it. Move on.

Imagine a counterfactual world where not a single customer nor vendor filed suit against Zidware. It’s a world inhabited by feeble, impatient and imprudent customers who simply don’t understand that pinball is hard. It’s a world in which skilled vendors enjoy working without pay because vendors really relish toiling without remuneration. It’s a world in which the work product of a highly talented artist is subordinated and co-opted. It’s a world where misdeeds are never called upon to stand under the spotlight of scrutiny. It's a world where the concept of justice is absent.

0

1

#3780 4 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Monk:
I wish this thread would die until new DR Pinball news is released.

I confess that I'll be sporadically checking this thread. After all that the preorder customers have endured, I have to know whether the final Zombie Adventureland art package will include bacon.

0

3

#4233 4 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from LTG:
And it looks like he knocked another one out of the park.
LTG : )

Pun intended?

0

2

#4508 4 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from JoeinNJ:
A little quick history behind the JetStar Roller Coaster name that is used in RAZA. This was the roller coaster that hurricane Sandy took and dumped into the sea at Seaside Hieghts,NJ. I was able to name this back when I was involved in RAZA and it’s good to see they might kept the name. Hopefully they can do the coaster some justice now that it’s disassembled and long gone.
[quoted image]

Seaside Heights was among my favorite vacation spots with my family, as a kid. That destroyed rollercoaster is quite the metaphor for this preorder RAZA ride.

0

#4780 4 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
[quoted image]

. . .and all of these decades I thought that Mars was called the red planet because of its appearance as opposed to the hair color of its female population. My 6th grade science teacher is going to have hell to pay.

0

#4900 4 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from greenhornet:
"winky-dink and you" was the pioneer in interactive programming. The core of the program was children sent away for a kit. The kit had a plastic screen that stuck to the TV tube with static electricity. Crayons were used to draw on the screen. When a character needed special help, children would be asked to draw on the screen, give assistance and free the character from trouble. If a character needed to cross a river with no bridge, the viewer would draw a line so a crossing could be made and escape trouble. Jack Barry, the host, emphasized inviting a friend over to watch the program; sharing in the drawing of assistance was also important. Everyone watched and helped winky-dinky in his adventures and HAD FUN.

I had the winky-dink kit. It was the progenitor of what would become the video game.

0

1

#7953 4 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from greenhornet:
if you believe that deeproots 'chinese coronavirus' comment was racist, just wait until you see the menu choices for those attending the reveal.[quoted image]

Omelet or omelette is the correct spelling. I wouldn't trust that fictional restaurant, at least not until it reveals some yokes.

0

#11175 3 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Yoko2una:
The amount of times the game Overcooked has been mentioned, solidifies my thought like a year or two ago when I posted it that THAT specific title would make for a killer pinball game.

That's quite an endorsement, coming from uncooked tekkamaki.

3

4

1

#11392 3 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Wildbill327:
The pinbar sounds pretty cool, but it’s probably going to take a bit of time before pinheads start to realize that. From the video on TWIP it seems to be way more than just a new settings menu. If they can incorporate it into gameplay(seems like that’s DR plan)it can add some new and exciting modes/video modes and will also add more interaction with your pin. I would welcome the opportunity to turn up/down the sound while I have a ball trapped or possibly turn up/down flipper strength as well. Hopefully DR can put something on a line and ship a pin out soon.

I envision a future pinball feature which enables 2 players, each playing his/her own machine at different locations, to actively assume control of the other player's game.

For example, you're playing your game in Canada and I'm playing mine in the USA.
Our games are synced. You strike the requisite targets enabling you to pause your game and take control of mine, scoring those points on your game for a period while subtracting that tally from my score.

Later, I achieve an objective which disables your left flipper and a video taunts you when you press that disabled flipper button.

I think that it's just a matter of time before we see these types of interactive features. The technology has existed for many years. Could be fun.

0

9

#11613 3 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Pinballlew:
If that angled Pinbar is not a issue...then they don’t need to change it but it looks rougher on your hands then Full Throttles....and for me that hurts. No my hands didn’t bleed but it was painful enough that I don’t care to ever play it again. In fact I couldn’t really play it how I normally would play a game. Mark my words they will change the shape of the Pinbar.

If the Pinbar remains troublesome, expect the aftermarket mod: pinBRA.

Kind of makes sense. The torpedo buxom look was popular in the fifties and RAZA is, after all, a retro-themed game.

Introducing PinBRA, the comfortable solution to bloody palms: in 3 cup sizes and 30 exciting styles. This week's special for Fire & Brimstone: 10% off crucifixion cups.

0

7

#12043 3 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from mbwalker:
On your Bally Surfers, if the glass breaks...I'm assuming you can replace it somehow?

I've replaced several Bally canopy glasses. It's a pain in the ass to do so, especially when the grime has accumulated in the vinyl channels, over the years.

The removable channel is the weak element to the design. It needs to be carefully aligned. Otherwise, it will interfere with re-assembly of the canopy.

I like the canopy concept and prefer it to the conventional slide-out design. However, it requires a redesign to improve upon an inferior glass swap task. Granted, glass swapping is a relatively infrequent task. Nevertheless, there's room for improvement.

Post last edited 3 years ago: “typo”

0

2

#12857 3 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
Yes, they fired the first shot in the stupidest pinball war in history.
If you are a Martian watching drooling idiots on earth hammer perfectly good pinball playfields what are you possibly thinking about humanity?

I suppose it depends upon whether your Martian image is on that RAZA playfield.

0

3

#12967 3 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from thirdedition:
My snarky answer is ramps, but I know there are EMs with them.
Honestly it always amazes me what the EM designers were able to do.

Ramps date back to the prewar games of the 1930s. In fact, most pinball innovations that we associate with modern machines were introduced in 1934 except, of course, the Pinbar.

0

#13031 3 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from benheck:
And the people bowed and prayed
To the fake neon charade
But Ben flashed out his warning
With his words on Pinside each morning
And his post said "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, Bob's button was pushed"
And whispered in the sounds... of deeproot

Just one word about the future of Ben Heck's Zombie Adventureland: plastics.

0

3

#13710 3 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

The next generation cargument, as delivered by rapper/CarShield spokesman, Ice-T:

"My monthly Deeproot subscription is always there for me. . .so that I can worry less."

"Replaced my general illumination, my cabinet illumination, my hardware, my software, my folding legs, my canopy glass, my wrap-around backbox, my bulletproofed playfield, my custom shipping crate and even my pinbar. Who does that?"

0

4

#15070 3 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from jellikit:
[quoted image]

Scrub Daddy is actually a daddy. He coaches my teenaged son's ice hockey team and his son is also on the team.

However, the league suspended games earlier this month when a player tested positive for covid19. No scrubbing out the virus, regrettably, until the vaccine distribution improves.

0

1

#15690 3 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from ZNET:
If the Pinbar remains troublesome, expect the aftermarket mod: pinBRA.
Kind of makes sense. The torpedo buxom look was popular in the fifties and RAZA is, after all, a retro-themed game.
Introducing PinBRA, the comfortable solution to bloody palms: in 3 cup sizes and 30 exciting styles. This week's special for Fire & Brimstone: 10% off crucifixion cups.

Four months later and we're still ruminating about pinBRA, pinGLOVES and sundry other imagined aftermarket products. If nothing else, this thread always defaults to entertainment which, I suppose, adds to the RAZA folklore.

I was Zidware's RAZA #4 preorder customer. I was lucky to secure reimbursement for my spot just before Pintasia's rescue effort. Consequently, I don't have the stomach to reinvest in this title.

Nevertheless, I'm glad to see that the game is likely to materialize, albeit far beyond projected timelines, and pinBRAless.

0

6

#15745 3 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from benheck:
Considering the constant of Robert INSISTING that he hire John and "save his games" the smartest move would have been to put all all hands on deck and make AIW from scratch.
Magic Girl and RAZA were ill-conceived. The former came after John once again failed to license David Copperfield, the latter was John trying to flatter me to I guess get my boardset? They're confusing themes that have to be explained to the player.
But everyone knows AIW and it's public domain! A JPOP AIW (with proper management and support behind it, instead of "John is God") would have been AMAZING. You don't have to sell the concept with a stupid comic book or tutorial videos, the buyer can image "a JPOP AIW" in their mind. Let him do the concept, creative direction and then let others actually make it work (like at B/W)
But no. They chose RAZA which probably required so much rework they may as well have started from scratch anyway. It shows a complete lack of awareness about the market, about what titles work and how to sell an original concept. Not to mention it doesn't look like it shoots all that well, the ball spends a lot of time bouncing around and doing nothing.
Unless they have killer games in the pipeline (and no, Food Truck won't sell either) it's not even worth spinning up a line to build 160 units.

I distinctly remember receiving the mailing from Zidware which contained the slick Alice in Wonderful solicitation. Upon opening the envelope, these were the thoughts which entered my mind, in order:

1) What a great theme;
2) A reasonably well-executed AIW would likely appeal to a broad range of potential customers;
3) I want one in my line-up;
4) Oh crap! Zidware is cash-poor, announcing AIW, despite having failed to release Magic Girl or BHZA (RAZA);
5) Zidware's days are numbered;
6) I need to obtain a refund immediately of my RAZA deposit or else file suit;
7) Who do I know in Illinois who can serve as local counsel?
8) Damn it.

I agree that AIW has always been the most marketable title and it is indeed perplexing that Deeproot failed to recognize that opportunity.

0

1

#15791 3 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Upon further reflection, can you imagine an alternate universe in which Deeproot's plan was to concentrate exclusively on Alice in Wonderland and continued to miss projected timeline objectives?

The jokes would be brutal: I'm late, I'm late, for a very important date. . .

0

19

#16341 3 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Zablon:
Um...you know a pinball machine by itself barely gets thru the door right? There's practically no way a padded box with a pinball machine is getting in a normal door.

Magic Girl's design included an impossible target with no direct vector. Now, we have a specially-designed Deeproot box which cannot pass through a door to reach its logical and intended destination.

The project is riddled with metaphors: a game encased by its own folly, surrounded by an opaque brand, knocking at the door repeatedly, while failing to recognize that it misinterpreted the size of the task at hand.

0

#16597 3 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from luvthatapex2:
Seems the pinbar is the boat anchor around deep roots neck, why not just pitch it, return to the standard lock bar or bar with button and give rasa a chance to be produced?

Might be time to burn the PinBras.

Screenshot_20210313-184110_Chrome (resized).jpg

0

12

#16755 3 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from benheck:
Quite right. It's about time Zidware is taken out back behind the barn and finished off for good.
This CANCER needs to be cut from the hobby.

Zombies never actually die. Instead, this is what they do.

They wander around aimlessly for eternity, sometimes headless, with outstretched arms, and on occasion, they stop, look around for victims and take pre-order deposits.

0

1

#17081 3 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
I can't believe nobody liked my Suez canal joke.
I'm deactivating!!!

I liked your joke. This thread has surely devolved into a deep root canal level of pain, though.

0

1

#17581 3 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

I love reading the technical dialogue even though I understand less than 1% of the terminology. Let's face it. Pinball is populated by some wicked smart people.

Meanwhile, although non-technical, I can think of an ingredient which would improve Food Truck: a daisy chain of bacon.

0

8

#17866 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

The Deeproot story may not be akin to the French Revolution.

But, with its history of competing threads, it certainly resembles A Tale of Two Cities, especially in its epoch of belief on the one hand and its epoch of incredulity on the other.

Screenshot_20210425-152017_Chrome (resized).jpg

0

10

#18061 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Rarehero:
10 years or so ago, Fabulous Fantasies embarked on a remake of King of Diamonds...claiming Stern's games were to complex and pinball players didn't like them, so they wanted to make a more classic & cheaper alternative. They ended up only making 50 games. No one wanted it.
How things have changed...remaking old games & charging more than Sterns lol....pinball be crazy. I wonder how that King of Diamonds remake would do today....probably still poorly. Underwater mermaid fantasy stuff is still cooler than cards.

One cool thing about Herb's Retro solid state King of Diamonds remake was that it had a 4-player capability on a single-player backglass format. The reels, playfield and animation would reset to reflect each player's progress.

Project original KoD games fetched about $1,200 back in 2009 and fully restored examples regularly sold for well over $2K. I had an EM version and loved it. Herb certainly selected one of the best titles of the sixties to remake with KoD. But, it was priced too high to compete with the original version, which was not scarce.

In contrast, original Fathoms are somewhat scarce in terms of availability in the marketplace. I was lucky to have had a Fathom in my line-up many years ago when they were $2K games. Fully restored Fathoms were later exchanging hands in the $7K range back then and they have pretty much settled at that price point.

Fathom is a well-designed game with challenging shots and fun objectives. Also, Fathom's art package is spectacular. Well, I think it's among the best of the era.

For these reasons, the Fathom remake makes sense to me.

Deeproot is too late to the party. When Jpop first announced Magic Girl and Ben Heck's Zombie Adventureland in about 2011, there was an enthusiastic collector market, myself included, seeking high-end limited, original themed games. It's now 2021, the original theme demand has largely dissipated and the marketplace is populated by other boutique manufacturers offering and producing interesting titles.

0

5

#18685 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Mr68:
When I was 12 years old my mother was still trying to get an abortion.

In the neighborhood where I was raised, you were not a viable fetus until earning a graduate degree.

0

#19363 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:
So is NicerSoul Corny or Kaneda?

He's the long lost "jury duty no free parking Pinsider." On second thought, nah. That guy's posts were entertaining. ;>

0

9

#19589 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Secret and unauthorized RAZA ruleset disclosed:

*Lock a ball in the Utah repository

*Pummel pinpod smash-toy until it fits through unreasonably small bay door

*Collect bonus from Texas parking lot, doubled for each illuminated vehicle

*Start pinbar wizard mode by matching thumbprint DNA with Baltic birch concentric growth spirals

*Freeze audio call-outs to investors and initiate sudden black-out by hitting ramp to nowhere

*Trap ball to stall gameplay and watch hydrolic canopy rise to enable resumption of play

*Begin multiball by securing the root sculpt and driving it deep into the rabbit hole subway

*Activate the mad hatter animatron to issue refunds.

0

12

#19680 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from benheck:
Robert hires John.
San Antonio newspaper says "pinball company hires the Rembrandt of pinball"

Rembrandt went bankrupt, having possessed no money-management abilities.

Rembrandt's success was the product of an economic boon during his early years.

Rembrandt had very long curly hair.

Rembrandt's career was supported by wealthy market investors derived from a Texas investment fund. . .err, I mean funded by Dutch patrons of the arts.

Screenshot_20210712-224630_Google (resized).jpg

Screenshot_20210712-224901_Google (resized).jpg

0

17

#19718 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from okgrak:
Their electrical engineer posting is just as laughable. Some of the highlights:
-Keeps up with current technology

What ELECTRICAL engineer doesn't keep up with "CURRENT technology?"

0

4

#19890 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from okgrak:
Did you guys know Robert Mueller graduated a semester early from law school in 2000? It's in his bio on the website.
He seems like a fun guy to have a beer with.

Graduating early from a law school ranked in the bottom 25% of all law schools nationwide (Saint Mary's School of Law in San Antonio, TX) is like a chef bragging about landing a job operating a food truck.

0

1

#20187 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from TreyBo69:
Much like JPop, they picked an arbitrary price before understanding what the actual BOM was or what the overhead of a factory would be.

Jersey Jack also had only a tenuous idea about its Wizard of Oz ECLE build of materials cost when it set its $6,500 preorder price tag. Jack once confessed to me that the price was indeed somewhat arbitrary.

Of course, the price increased to $7K soon thereafter and considerably more with the Ruby Red and Yellow Brick Road versions.

I suspect that losing a manageable sum of money on a new manufacturer's first release isn't monumentally significant. What's more important is the product and plan once the company proves its viability.

0

3

#20332 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from NoQuarters:
Maybe that one is going to be Vegetable Farm !
Could be the best game of the bunch, or peck, or bushel.

When I see Vegetable Farm suggested in jest as a game title, I immediately think of Orwell's Animal Farm. I imagine a niche pinball manufacturer creating unconventional titles like Lord of the Flies, Animal Farm or Catcher in the Rye.

These and other classic novels of the forties and fifties have been on every high school syllabus for decades. No, they don't contain obvious paths to implement. But, the characters, like many other literary creations, are compelling and universal in their appeal to the human condition.

Indeed, pinball springs largely from the angst, alienation and ambitions of teenage boys. What better protagonist exists to exemplify that paradigm than Holden Caulfield?

Of course, the Salinger estate would never allow such a use. Animal Farm > Food Truck.

0

3

#20438 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Mr68:
Political leaks, TMZ, gossip rags, insider trading... Sterns next game or even a friend of a friend having an affair.
"Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead"
Benjamin Franklin

I think that Benjamin Franklin is right when it comes to gossip and routine information.

In contrast, with respect to intrinsically valuable information, the kind which requires forethought and wisdom, I find some truth in the old adage: Those who know don't tell whereas those who tell don't know (e.g. "Pinball is easy").

0

1

#20730 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from benheck:
To any contractor who might consider this:
1) Charge 3X what it costs
2) Have an IRON-CLAD indemnity clause in the contract saying DR cannot sue you now or ever for any reason, as a condition of supplying said service.

A deep-suit agreement.

0

14

#20757 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from metallik:
Oh it's been in antique phase for as long as anything else, look at the crazy prices on the few "desirable" woodrails out there.
Problem is, as an art form, one of pinball's biggest draws is the gameplay, and boring woodrails and EMs just don't garner much interest from anyone. Think of all the Christmas and partridge family and oak ridge boys LP you find at the thrift stores... old crappy EMs and woodrails (and SS games) are just like those. Bad art, boring gameplay, too many made, no one wants.
Of course, as the supply dries up, even the bad examples slowly become desirable...

A relatively small but passionate prewar pinball collectors market has existed for 35+ years. The same is true for woodrails.

Some titles continue to fetch more than a Big Bang Bar. Try finding a restored 1936 GM Labs Soccer for under $25K. Likewise, 1935 Rockola Army Navy regularly sells for $13K - $18K and a few have topped $20K. Games made in 1934 and thereabouts encompass nearly every important pinball innovation, including ramps and subways.

A 1951 Gottlieb Mermaid sold for approximately $17K about 15 years ago and a 1951 Gottlieb Glamor sold for about $15K in 2017. Several woodrail titles (e.g. Niagara, Grand Slam, Queen of Hearts, Spot Bowler, Marble Queen, Daisy May, Knock Out) have traditionally commanded high price tags. These and other games are tremendous fun. Some feature 7 paths to a replay. The art packages are great; the gameplay is inspired. Woodrail prices have dipped somewhat in last 3 years; but, the best titles have mostly held their value.

The same is true of the robust general EM market, which concentrates on sixties and seventies era games. The scarcely-seen wedgeheads like Gottlieb TKO fetch $9K. Gottlieb Blue Note/Rock Star are not far behind. Transitional multiplayer EMs like Gottlieb Space Walk sell for $15K. I'm one of the administrators of the EM Pinball Facebook page. Its current membership tally is 7,400 and the group is extremely active every day.

About 10 years ago, the early solid state market began to rise. Games like Fathom and Quicksilver skyrocketed, restored examples exchanging hands for $7K+.

In other words, the typical pinball enthusiast, who follows a RAZA thread here on Pinside or who exclusively buys NIB Stern, JJP, Spooky and AP games, TBL, Alien et. al to accompany their classic Williams-Bally-Midway titles, may be unaware that substantial niche collector markets exist in pinball for the older games and those markets are growing.

The only anemic pinball decade is the 1940s. All other decades are witnessing a demonstrable growth in buyer demand. These collector markets will likely continue to grow irrespective of the success or failure of start-up ventures like deeproot.

0

5

#20812 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from metallik:
That's basically what I said - some older titles fetch big bucks but the majority do not. Genuine question: do you think the market is growing to the point most remaining early games/woodrails will become valuable, or will the high dollars stay with a few select titles? I haven't followed that market and thus any growth has been under my radar. Is there that much difference between a 17K woodrail and a $300 one? Is it just rarity or does gameplay have a significant factor in pricing?

The prewar, woodrail and later EM pinball markets mirror the modern game market to the extent that certain titles fetch extraordinarily high prices. Those high price tags are based on scarcity but most of those rare games are also great fun to play.

Generic titles are considerably less expensive. A desirable prewar, woodrail or 60s/70s EM in nice condition will usually sell for $500 - $1,500. The best examples will fetch closer to $2K+. Almost all games earlier than 1980 are somewhat scarce and the demand outpaces the supply.

My comment was meant to emphasize that many of these older games are really fun to play. Your comment seemed somewhat dismissive of older games in terms of the design sophistication quotient. The designs are often ingenious. The rule-sets "code" on the 1954 woodrails are super deep.

The $300 woodrail is indeed different than the $1,200 woodrail. It's not simply the rarity factor. Same with prewar and later EMs. There are hundreds of fantastic electromechanical and purely mechanical pinball machines. The markets have nuance, just like the markets for modern games.

There are games in the $1K, $2K, $3K, 4K and $5K+ ranges. It's not a binary circumstance in which all games are either $300 or $17K.

0

1

#20816 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from metallik:
The comment was based on my play experience, and seeing plenty for sale quite cheap. If there are sleepers that play great but haven't yet hit crazy prices, I would be interested in checking them out. I played a bunch of woodrails at the Pacific Pinball Expo when it was a thing, and while some titles were pretty interesting, others just seemed dull with not much to do.
Right now, I have three woodrails: Triplets, Shindig and Hi Diver. The first two happened to come along with other games, but I specifically got the Hi Diver because it looked like it would be a good player with the upper flippers helping keep action across the entire playfield. The other two don't seem as interesting, although I've heard good things about Shindig. All three still need to be restored to playing condition. I want to have at least one in my collection, but not opposed to a few if they're fun enough.

Spending time on some of the woodrail A-listers (well-restored examples), like 1953 Gottlieb Grand Slam and 1952 Gottlieb Queen of Hearts can often convince hard-core skeptics that these old games are immensely entertaining and have long-term appeal. Feel free to message me for specific advice about titles.

Back to deeproot. . .

0

6

#20831 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from metallik:
Why PM, it' not like there's anything to talk about WRT deeproot these days, at least not til the next parking lot update...
//<![CDATA[
window.__mirage2 = {petok:"6dbba285f3b17188a3ef409e166dab3eb37bfff0-1627595393-1800"};
//]]>

What's your opinion on those three I mentioned? I'll definitely keep an eye out for those you just did mention here, although I'm guessing they're hard to find outside of private collections these days.

A long time ago, Clay Harrell published his ratings of Gottlieb woodrails at the link below. Clay gives Shindig a C grade, Triplets a C+ and Hi Diver a B+. I rate Triplets a C- and Hi Diver a B and agree that Shindig is a C where C represents an average player.

The A-titles are appreciably better than what you currently have. They are games that a collector enjoys playing in a line-up for many years. I have been lucky to have owned a good variety of woodrails for over 3 decades and have never tired of the A-titles.

A-title woodrails are not exclusive to Gottlieb, although Gottlieb does dominate that pinball category. I rate Chicago Coin Thing, Williams Gusher and Williams Skyway as A-titles, for example. In fact, my Pinside profile includes a comprehensive article about CCM's enigmatic woodrail Thing, which features Roy Parker art and an extraordinary audio feature. Thing is a remarkable game.

Regrettably, many enthusiasts form a negative impression of woodrails and EMs when they play them at shows. Often, those examples have weak flippers and are improperly tuned. . .that's no fun. Properly functioning woodrails, correctly restored, and other EMs can be as fast and as challenging as any modern game.

The collectors in the RAZA preorder thread chasing an unusual and collectible game would be better served by acquiring a 1971 Bally Skyrocket. It's one of only two titles designed by Harry Williams for Bally (1971 Firecracker is the other, also great).

Skyrocket is a title which has withstood the test of time and is likely to escalate in value. Its cascading light show playfield feature is a legitimate innovation. And yes, like RAZA, the playfield glass rises in a convenient canopy.

Nic Schell of the Roanoke, VA pinball museum posted a great Skyrocket demo on YouTube. It's worth checking out.

You're right. Posts about EMs are more interesting than deeproot's silent updates. Williams Gusher's innovation was a disappearing pop bumper. Deeproot has invented the disappearing update.

http://www.pinrepair.com/gtb/

0

#20856 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Rarehero:
I just see shrink wrapped boxes. Show me carts & a working system and maybe we’ve got something.
Also on the new-retro front, Playdate went up for sale today and sold their 20,000 unit 2021 allotment in about 30 min. They’ve sent preview units to gaming media…totally transparent. Excited for this goofy little yellow system!

I've been on the Playdate preorder list since the start. I'm not sure why they expressly stated recently that the original 20,000 would not sell out. In any event, I'm looking forward to delivery in 2022, since I neglected to order immediately.

I agree that their development was fully transparent these last couple of years.

0

7

#21162 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from NoQuarters:
Nobody needs a box - No games

The irony is palpable. One might argue that those who boast about exclusively thinking outside of the box don't need one.

0

#21424 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from flynnibus:
I mean... reality check. This guy dreamt up "5 days of deeproot" before they even knew what they were building. That right there tells you everything you need to know.

Give RM a break. Clearly, he is a deep(root) sleeper.

RAZA: "nay"
Food Truck: "nay"
Goonies: "nay"
The Who: "nay"
To Be Announced: "nay"

In the fog of a dream, "nay" can sound a lot like "day." ;>
Screenshot_20210806-133953_Google (resized).jpg

0

7

#21513 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from jawjaw:
You are basically treating everyone that bought into DR as naive, idiotic, children that can't think for themselves. They are grown ass adults

I think that we all behave like children, myself included, when evaluating the propriety of pre-ordering a game from an untested start-up.

Deep inside, our voice of reason implores us to avert the risk. But, when it comes to pinball, our logical selves devolve to that sunken place in the film, Get Out, to which there is no escape and which transforms us into, ironically. . .zombies. It's as if a different self, much less discerning, plunks down that pre-order deposit.

After my experience suing Zidware and Jpop for a RAZA refund forever ago, just before Pintasia endeavored to rescue the project, I invested in some dense cotton to filter out the hypnotic trance-inducing tinkle, tinkle of the proverbial pre-order tea cup.

0

3

#21520 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Frax:
Thank christ my self-awareness won the day over my instinctual self when it came to Alice in Wonderland...

The day I received Jpop's slick Alice In Wonderland solicitation was the day that I began drafting the lawsuit, although I still held out hope that court-intervention would be unnecessary.

The empty RAZA cabinet exhibition fiasco was the catalyst to identifying local counsel, a Chicago litigator, to file the complaint.

0

15

#21581 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

The only thing that I won't miss in this thread are all of the posts which distort "would've" (meaning would HAVE) as would OF.

Same with seeing "could OF" by English-speaking Pinsiders who hold English as their primary language. It's like the sound of chalk on a blackboard.

0

7

#21585 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Slash:
^^ It’s like when the preorder people come in here and say “I could care less if I lose my deposit”.
Now just got back and read that statement. You just told me that you actually care because you have the capacity to care a little less.
The statement should be “I couldn’t care less”. In other words your care factor is basically at zero. The first statement implies it’s higher than that.

Such colloquialisms don't bother me as much. "It's all downhill from here" is similar insofar as its actual meaning is the opposite of its intended meaning.

The misuse of the apostrophe is most maddening to me. The word "it's" means IT IS. (e.g. It's unfortunate that deeproot is a failed venture.)

Ninety-eight percent of the population wrongly thinks that adding the apostrophe makes the word possessive, as in: "RAZA and it's pinbar are not innovative." That nonsensical sentence as written actually means: RAZA and IT IS pinbar are not innovative."

Another pet peeve often seen here and elsewhere is the incorrect abbreviation of et cetera (etc.) as ect.

Carry on.

0

2

#21664 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from iceman44:
Aloha from Maui. Another beautiful day in paradise!
I actually received a text alerting me that the DR thread was blowing up from Kaneda while I was on the Plantation golf course in Kapalua. Awesome experience btw
Did I miss something? Carry on
Mahalo

Mea'ole.

0

3

#21763 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from wolftownjeff:
My German Shepherd's favorite game is AFM.

Williams Bad Cats or Bally Dogies would have been my guess.

0

15

#21911 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Here is my daughter and her dog, Dixie. They are cute, maybe TOO cute. . .and photogenic.

Also, go to hell deeproot.

Screenshot_20210809-215854_Messages (resized).jpg

0

1

#22341 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from mrgone:
Imagine a world where Bobby pinball and jpop end up on late night tv to shlep the most innovative pinball game ever created.

Upvoted for use of the word "shlep."

0

5

#22530 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

It's August 2035.

UL certification: solved.
Pinbar: solved.
Legal issues: solved.
Payroll: solved.
Code: solved.
Manufacturing: solved.
Vanishing social media: solved.
Janitor position: filled.

RAZA release date? Just one problem, Benjamin. . .

Screenshot_20210816-200452_Chrome (resized).jpg

0

8

#22547 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Yoreland:
Lol, and the saga begins anew...

Sitting at a Starbucks on a workday afternoon.
Going to noodle up another foam core ball gate.
Laugh about it, shout about it
When you've got to choose.
Every way you shoot this game you lose.

Where have you gone, Python Anghelo?
Our Pinside turns its lonely thread to you.
Woo, woo, woo.
What's that you say, Mr. Jpop man?
Balcer Joe has left and gone away,
Hey, hey, hey,
Hey, hey, hey.

0

1

#22549 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Yoreland:
Good stuff.
What did Python think of JPop? I read somewhere that he didn't like him or something.

From what I've read, Jpop idolized Python whereas Python despised Jpop.. .quite an unfortunate dynamic.

0

26

#22626 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from greatwichjohn:
Raza builds are possible. Just need to contract it out & get it done if Deeproot continues to drop the ball. Same with more Magic Girl & other games they were working on. You either step up & get a production line going with staff, or get someone to get it done.

You seem well-intentioned. However, your writing style is so tautological and cryptic that it seems better suited for the preorder thread. We are mostly skeptics here, not predisposed towards unicorns.

And, for the love of Pinside threads, it's could HAVE (not could OF). Could've means could have. Would've means would have. The apostrophe in those contractions means that the letters "h" and "a" are missing. Think about it. Could OF makes no sense.

0

1

#22632 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from benheck:
I LITERALLY could CARE LESS about your pedantic grammar mongering!
Cash me outside, how bow dah?

Ben, I was really disappointed when BHZA transmogrified into RAZA.

My initials are BHZa. Literally.

0

11

#22724 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from greatwichjohn:
I thought the empty cabinets would of been a. . .

0

11

#23067 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

The most significant paragraph in the SEC's complaint is #49, in my opinion. That paragraph is designed to establish that Robert Mueller possessed the requisite mens rea, the criminal intent upon which a conviction is predicated.

Here's the Simon & Garfunkel version of the SEC filing:

Hide it in a hiding place
where no one ever goes.
Put it in a pinpod with cupcakes.
It's a little secret just a PPM affair.
Most of all you've got to hide it from the threads.

Koo-koo-ka-choo, Mr. deeprootman.
Goonies love you more than you will know.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
God bless you please, Mr. Pinbarman.
Rikers holds a place for those who stray.
Hey, hey, hey
Hey, hey, hey.
Screenshot_20210821-093223_OneDrive (resized).jpg

0

7

#23198 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from dr_nybble:
Thought this was enlightening:
https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/why-so-few-securities-fraud-cases-are-criminally-prosecuted/

This is precisely why paragraph #49 is so significant. By reciting the events in paragraph #49, the SEC gratuitously included evidence of criminal intent in its complaint, which seeks civil penalties.

The allegations here go beyond the unlawful price manipulations of securities, dubious misuse of funds or breach of fiduciary duty. They involve intentional disgorgement, misappropriation and fraud. Paragraph #49, in my view, is a signal to a criminal prosecution in the future.

0

8

#23287 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
- I think playing pinball CEO with other people's money was another form of personal enrichment for Robert, different from dental work, divorces, and Hawaii condos. He didn't have to do all this crap. He wanted to and reveled in it. Plus, since Robert knows he's a super genius who's amazing at everything, he probably thought the pin biz would make him even richer when Deeproot trounced all the dumbass other companies that are stupid and don't know have the vision to be smart and awesome like deeproot was going to be.

Insecurity tends to breed bluster.

There's evidence of deep-rooted insecurity here (pun intended).

Perhaps his St. Mary's University Law School degree, with its rock-bottom tier rank, combined with his other lackluster academic credentials, fueled his perceived psychological need to create something extraordinary.

I've known several JD/MBA joint degree holders and JD/MD dual degree recipients over the years. They tended to struggle with both disciplines, never mastering either, particularly the law hemisphere of their education.

Who knows what drives a person towards self-destruction. I cannot divine why RM embarked into this madness. But, I suspect that those demons are more internal than external and they are probably quite primal as well.

0

8

#23337 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:
Six months from now, Charlie Brooker will have made a Black Mirror episode about this whole sordid affair.

Except that Black Mirror episodes are based upon plausible scenarios, like prime ministers who are coerced into televised beastiality.

Anybody not already familiar with the deeproot saga would reject the story as patently unbelievable.

0

4

#23484 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from boo32:
From the "Legal" section of the website
Payment
deeproot will automatically charge on a recurring basis the fee for the subscription plan you choose, including any applicable taxes, to the payment method associated with your Account. You can change your subscription at any time by accessing your Account. The applicable fee for an upgraded subscription will take effect immediately however a downgraded subscription will take effect upon expiration of the previously paid for subscription. If deeproot is unable to successfully charge your credit card or does not receive payment for fees due, deeproot reserves the right to restrict access to the Online Services and any User Submissions, delete your User Submissions, or terminate your Account.

Dear deeproot subscribers:

We wish to report that the recurring deeproot online subscription model has been retooled (just a smidge).

We recommend the 4th wife subscription plan with its more modest bling and unpredictable content.

The first three segments of the preorder season, including the Hawaii Adventureland episode, have been discontinued for lack of SEC certification. On behalf of deeproot management, please accept our apologies.

Update: 4th wife episode has been canceled. Stay tuned. ;>

0

4

#23654 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
For me the convo went like this...
“Hey baby remember that scam pinball company I mentioned when we were watching The Lady and the Dale ?”
“Yep!”
“Well.....”

Just took my son to the Petersen Museum in Los Angeles yesterday. The Dale was there. Instructive story about how scams unfold.

20210822_145301 (resized).jpg

20210822_145315 (resized).jpg

20210822_145319 (resized).jpg

0

1

#23713 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from benheck:
One of a million fed flags that caused us to say NO

Fed flags = SEC.

0

4

#23873 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from LORDDREK:
Deep rut was a steam engine that ran on cash. When the boiler pressure got low it was time to burn whatever they could to keep the heat on. It’s just too bad the rails led absolutely nowhere…

In your analogy of this train wreck, the Securities and Exchange Commission is the 3rd rail. The SEC complaint is nothing less than shocking.

Screenshot_20210824-100545_Chrome (resized).jpg

0

2

#24006 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from TreyBo69:
Here is Robert's carwash
10670 Bandera Rd, San Antonio, TX 78250
I think he gave a loan from deeproot Funds, LLC (again don't name all your fraudulent companies the same thing) to someone who built a carwash sometime in 2019 or so going off the streetview with Robert personally as the trustee

It was only a matter of time before the cargument would evolve into the carwashumentation.

Defined as follows: the act of lending millions to a car wash business on the eve of a pandemic when nobody will drive for a year.

0

19

#24303 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Inside:
Holy shit. Robert hired a really expensive lawyer.
Jay previously served as Counsel to the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence at the U.S. House of Representatives, where he led oversight of covert actions and various intelligence gathering programs. Jay also served as the Legislative Director and Counsel to Congresswoman Jane Harman, providing policy advice and drafting legislation regarding national security, defense, homeland security, and energy issues, among others.
Prior to his time on Capitol Hill, Jay was an associate at Irell & Manella LLP in Los Angeles, California, where he handled complex litigation matters regarding intellectual property, corporate securities, and contract disputes for clients in the entertainment, media, and technology industries.
Jay received his J.D., cum laude, from Harvard Law School in 2000, and was a Primary Editor of the Harvard Law Review. He received his B.S. in Economics, magna cum laude, from Virginia Tech in 1997, and was Student Body President.
Super Lawyers’ 2021 Texas Rising Stars Recipient – Only a few attorneys from each state are selected to Super Lawyers designation for any given year. The multi-factor selection process includes independent research, peer nominations and evaluations, as well as professional achievement in legal practice.

Jay Hulings, Esquire, RM's counsel, has legitimately impressive credentials. However, his Super Lawyers selection is a "fluff" accolade.

He ought to remove it from his biography because, in the legal community, it actually detracts from and diminishes his otherwise meaningful academic and professional accomplishments.

In my opinion, nobody in the legal community takes Super Lawyers or similar "top lawyer" magazine awards seriously. Because of their dubious selection formulas and business models, designed to sell advertisements and ego-plaques to impress unsophisticated potential clients, NJ and other courts have stringent rules and disclaimers about including such accolades in attorney biographies.

For that reason, my firm disallows listing them in attorney bios. At least RM is smart enough to have passed on hiring a fellow St. Mary's University Law School graduate. I've got to give him credit for that level of self-awareness. Surely he knows just how serious is the SEC complaint and the implications thereof, especially the foreboding paragraph #49.

0

4

#24308 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Based on current circumstances, as included in the SEC complaint, I would expect an initial 6-figure retainer to defend the allegations.

0

7

#24394 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from KerryImming:
Seems to be working.

Yep. The general public views a "top attorney" or "top doctor" award, rendered by a local magazine, as dispositive of professional qualifications. It's so pervasive that when us trial lawyers qualify expert physicians, we really have to include those silly magazine awards when we review their credentials with juries, during voir dire of the experts.

My expert could be surgeon, Christiaan Barnard, who performed the 1st heart transplant. But, if the local Cape Town magazine named him a "top doc," that's what juries will latch onto as evidence of his qualifications as a cardiovascular surgeon.

The most important credential for a physician or litigator is whether the professional is "board certified." For litigators, most states have an extremely rigorous certification process, so much so that only a small percentage of lawyers qualify.

In NJ, only 2% or fewer of all lawyers are certified civil trial attorneys, certified by the NJ Supreme Court. The lawyer seeking that credential must prove that he/she has a boatload of jury trial experience, and must pass a rigorous exam, much more advanced than the bar exam, not to mention a major ethics vetting. The certification must be renewed every 5 years. It's a major pain in the ass to achieve; but, it's what separates the real trial attorneys from the pretenders. In NJ, it also permits an advantageous case referral disposition.

Based on the link below, it appears that Texas has a board certification process, similar to that in NJ. Texas lawyers, like Iceman, might want to chime in with more detail. In NJ, a variety of certification specialties are available and they all require passing the onerous test and other substantial prerequisites.

Because RM's attorney doesn't list a civil or criminal trial attorney certification in his bio, I presume that he does not hold either of those important credentials.

https://wlcampbell.com/board-certified-in-texas-civil-trial-law/

Key post

0

6

#24467 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from greatwichjohn:
If they had a production plan in place I believe things would of

Success requires learning from mistakes.

0

1

#24496 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from pookycade:
Let’s say you knew a priori that there would be a $58M Ponzi like scheme paired with pinball. If you could pick any designer past or present to combine that disaster with who would think would be the most fitting to go in that slot ? It was ironically the perfect combination. It made the best dumpster fire. The cherry on top of the sh t sundae if you will. If you were writing a piece of fiction about DR you would call it brilliance for dreaming up a Zidware angle to go with it. JPOP solidified his Wikipedia page as the worst designer ever to go with the biggest failure in pinball ever.

Thumbs up for use of a priori.

0

7

#24615 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from zombieyeti:
Burn it with fire!
//<![CDATA[
window.__mirage2 = {petok:"d831d59fd895198e0ef19e32f306186369434b7a-1630094839-1800"};
//]]>

Seriously - I HOPE that if Deeproot Pinball is in fact dead (as all signs here do point directionaly towards) that people let these projects die. Please? ...too many people were scammed over the years on these projects.
Not to be selfish, but the mental drain of seeing art I did dating back to 2011 - remembering the process and lack of process - just brings back the stress of what it was like working for so long (an uphill battle along the way I might add) and finding out that it was all a sham. - Sure, good came of it for me in the end thanks to Stern - but it was in part because I worked hard and continue to work hard (and meet deadlines)...
In fact, my personal (and perhaps too compassionate) stance at the moment is that if John ever wants to reenter pinball I would hope he would start a new project that wasn't built on the disappointment and financial loss of these projects... but obviously this is just my opinion as I do have some baggage here

Jeremy,
Know that your AIW art does bestow much enjoyment to visitors of my humble basement gameroom. It's the very first art item at the entrance. First and last thing seen by every guest.

20201002_160112 (resized).jpg

20201002_160315 (resized).jpg

20201002_160346 (resized).jpg

0

11

#24884 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

You walked into the hobby
like you were walking into a yacht.
Your plan was premised
upon one huge lie.
Your color theme was purple snot.

You had one eye in the mirror
as you watched yourself gavotte.

And all the preorders dreamed
that they'd be an owner

They'd be an owner.

And you're so vain.
You probably think this song is about you.

You're so vain.
I bet you think this song is about you.
Don't you?
Don't you?

Jpop had me several years ago
when I was still quite naive.
RAZA and AIW were such a pretty pair.
And Magic Girl was the game to lead.

But he gave away the deposits we left
after Heckendorn set himself free.

Original themes swirled like
clouds in his coffee
clouds in his coffee

And you're so vain.
This target bank
is surely about you.

Screenshot_20210829-151921_Chrome (resized).jpg

0

8

#25093 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
it seems Robert has actually hired not one but two very expensive lawyers to represent him. Their bios:
https://dslawpc.com/attorney/jay-hulings/
https://dslawpc.com/attorney/jason-davis/
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

It appears that RM's second attorney, like his first, has substantial relevant experience and excellent academic credentials.

However, neither seem to have acquired board certification status in any of the 21 or so specialized fields available to Texas lawyers meeting the requisites.

Civil Trial Law and Criminal Law are the two overarching specialties which probably most apply to the SEC charges here.

Some defense lawyers have the magical pixie dust to settle a tough case and secure a favorable outcome. But, when your case fails to resolve and you're relying on a jury of strangers to decide your fate, you probably want the best trial attorney, with a boatload of experience actually trying cases to a jury.

If nothing else, the board certification is a prestigious credential (at least in NJ and I suspect in TX as well) which demonstrates a high degree of achievement, proficiency and experience in jury trials.

https://www.tbls.org/findlawyer

0

18

#25469 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from MrBally:
I am amazed at how many reasonably educated individuals struggle with expressing decimals and percentages. It's not even math, it's basic arithmetic....

Equally, it's impossible to scroll through a single Pinside page without encountering maddening grammar, punctuation and spelling errors. Typos and stream of consciousness posts are certainly understandable.

However, the most common unforgivable errors seem to be:

1) using "could of" and "would of" which are both nonsensical. The correct phrase is, of course, could HAVE and would HAVE;
2) incorrectly writing "etcetera" as "ect." The correct abbreviation is, of course, "etc." Further, one "etc." suffices. Multiples are redundant;
3) misuse of "your" when "you're" is meant, the latter of which means, of course, "you are." This is clearly the number 1 error;
4) misuse of "it's" to designate the possessive meaning when, of course, "it's" means "it is." To convey possession,
there is NO apostrophe in "its." (e.g. The deeproot company is a failed venture. Its assets have been depleted.)

Perhaps the most disheartening lesson is that these mistakes are repeated by the same folks even after a correction is noted by a fellow Pinsider. The educational collapse (in STEM as well) is evidently just as pervasive in Canada as in America. The western hemisphere is badly losing the global literacy race. It's embarrassing.

0

1

#25476 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Rdoyle1978:
And since you’re doing this, you should know that the long form of “etc.” is et cetera. 2 words.

Both the 1 word (etcetera) and 2 word (et cetera) forms of the Latin term are correct.

0

1

#25484 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Rdoyle1978:
Both forms are -Accepted-. This is not the same as “correct”. You may also write “etc” without the period, which is accepted but also not correct, as it does not properly denote the term as an abbreviation.
“Et” means “and” in Latin. “Cetera” means “the other things…” hence, “Et cetera”: “and, the other things”.
“Etcetera” in Latin means nothing whatsoever. We have come to accept it as meaning the same as “Et cetera” because people have become complacent.
Anyway, I’m just busting your balls

Yes. There's been a trend to economize language in written form. For example, the younger generations utilize only a single space after each sentence. Doing so is now an "accepted" form. Is it therefore "correct" to do so?

I leave that distinction to the scholars.

Meanwhile, it's refreshing to know that others care about language.

As for other abominations like "their/there/they're" errors, don't get me started.

Incidentally, the period belongs inside your quoted "correct." Such mistakes are upper echelon, though. My beef is with the exceedingly obvious errors.

0

5

#25628 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from aeneas:
I'm also amazed if CC companies don't investigate this further.
Everyone who asks a refund conveniently forgets to tell the CC company they signed a contract that the money was non-refundable..
No problem if deeproot is totally dead and Robert doesn't answer any email/call anymore.
But should someone answer the CC company and show them the contracts everyone signed, then the money goes to deeproot ?

The nonrefundable contractual provision is, in my interpretation, inconsequential. That's because the deposits are, by implication, contingent upon delivery of the purchased product.

These transactions are governed by the Uniform Commercial Code and other laws of commerce. These deposits were not denominated as "investments" in the transactions themselves, even though we often characterize them as such here in this thread.

Conversely, the 575 fund was indeed an investment, subject to very different strictures.

1

3

2

#25651 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from woodworker:
I used this template before, but I just couldn't help myself...
[quoted image]

Could OF.

0

#25682 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Cantabkiwi:
Always smile seeing how an ex-British colony correct gramma. They do not hold to the Queens English.
Language changes over time.....Not as much as JPop

The Pinsiders here are merely trying to elevate Pawn's English to something worthy of a commoner. Is that asking too much?

0

#25726 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

I don't know about Seawitch, but this thread could use some bewitching energy.

"A little guitar, a little atmosphere. . .and it wails like this."

0

#25779 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from fosaisu:
Will the judge be charmed by the fabled JPop charisma? Stay tuned!

The judge, in his green & purple robe, replied: "Circus Not-A-Prayer."

(Can someone create this image in a meme, utilizing the CV jester, please?)

0

18

#25971 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from benheck:
A creative person like Danesi, myself, every homebrew er out there can make a working game in a cave with a box of scraps. That's the real difference.

I admire the hobbyists who create cool homebrew games.

I was less ambitious about a home pinball project several years ago because my skills are limited. Also, my day job doesn't accord a large spare time quotient.

Nevertheless, in 2013, with a $3K budget, in my basement, I built this functional EM Whoa Nellie conversion with the WhizBang playfield and acrylic backglass.

The project was arguably more complex than a retheme because this conversion required a 1957 Gottlieb Continental Cafe donor, which possessed a different ruleset and a different playfield component configuration. Also, a schematic was nonexistent. I later added an interactive cowbell topper to supplement the chimes and bell audio elements.

Lesson learned: money + workforce alone does not equal success. Rather, a combination of the right ingredients makes the soufflé rise.

Screenshot_20210925-131435_Chrome (resized).jpg

Screenshot_20210925-133510_Chrome (resized).jpg

0

9

#25976 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from clempo:
ZNET, looks awesome. Wait a minute, did you just say this machine runs on repurposed 64-year-old EM hardware and no modern electronics?

Yes, the game was entirely an EM, gobble hole scoop and all. I added a 1970s Gottlieb chime unit, which was not original to the WhizBang EM concept game nor to the 1957 donor game.

WhizBang (Dennis Nordman & Greg Freres) made 1 EM version prototype and a couple of solid state samples before Stern decided to make the boutique WNBJM production game. In between, I made my version, which mimics the soft lines of Continental Cafe's cabinet. Also, I secured the backglass frame molding on 1 side with magnets for easy removal of the backglass.

I began in 2013 and finished in 2014, with the help of a local friend. Greg Freres kept up with the status of my progress. In fact, the 2 photos in my post above were taken by Greg and published on the Freres/Nordman WNBJM Facebook page back then.

Here's a demo video of my Whoa Nellie from several years ago (not the best camera angles):

Here's a video of the campy cowbell topper, which my gameroom guests really liked:

There were no specs so I had to guess a lot. But, that mystery was what made the project so personal and so much fun.

0

8

#26419 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from NoQuarters:
Robert/Deeproot probably the worst actor of the bunch. He's kind of the Al Capone of the pinball criminals.

Capone and Deeproot? Does that mean that there's going to be a vault edition?

0

2

#26827 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Zablon:
While this may seem shut and dry, .

. . .or cut and dried.

0

2

#26939 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

While I understand that he's innocent until proven otherwise, I can't view this image without thinking "target defendant bank" and potential sentencing guideline tiers.

Screenshot_20211112-004815_Chrome (resized).jpg

0

4

#27117 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Inside:
COBRA also doesn’t cost the company any money other than administrative overhead so it’s extra petty to deny it.

COBRA Kai, among the heretofore undisclosed "to-be-announced" deeproot titles.

A down-and-out pinball designer seeks redemption by reopening an infamous pinball design dojo, reigniting his rivalry with a mythical python.

0

4

#27188 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from benheck:
Oh man. I have so many leftover tins.

Solution for your overstock?

For sale: Nintendo Altoid video game. Mint in box.

0

7

#27257 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:
How would propose that version be abbreviated in the Pinside database? RAZAR (Redeux) or RAZA3 (3rd try) or RAZAr (remake) or RAZAv (vault), RAZAp (prison edition) or RAZAc (CON edition). If someone does buy the rights and tries to make the game, a naming contest would be a big hit.

How about 1 name for all editions, since this title should not be multiplied beyond necessity?

Occam's RAZA

0

#27369 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Inside:
Oh... very interesting.
If you file a bankruptcy case then most other civil lawsuits (again: not criminal lawsuits) against you are automatically stayed (put on pause) until the bankruptcy case is completed or if, in rare cases, the bankruptcy court allows the other cases to proceed.
I'm learning so much about corporate legal chicanery here.

Where a separate civil suit is designed to add or recoup an asset to the benefit of the debtor in bankruptcy, the bankruptcy court will routinely lift the automatic stay and appoint the separate attorney as special counsel to pursue the asset.

In contrast, civil suits designed to deplete the bankrupt entity will not be allowed and the bankruptcy court will not lift the automatic stay.

0

#27372 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Rdoyle1978:
So how do we know which one this situation is?

If by "this situation" you mean persons who lost pre-order deposits or investors who lost investment funds, they would have civil recourse against the bankrupt entity only upon the bankruptcy court lifting the automatic stay. There is no reason for the bankruptcy court to allow such civil suits.

0

2

#27389 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Rdoyle1978:
Serious question for attorneys: if a defendant represents him/herself in the proceedings, can they charge a fee to themselves for this service ? It would seem courts would be on to this type of thing.

In 99% of the circumstances, a pro se litigant who holds a license to practice law cannot recoup fees representing the value of services rendered to himself/herself.

In the exceptional case where a law firm defends itself from a frivolous suit, a court in NJ may award the value of such services to the aggrieved party.

0

13

#27600 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from RyanStl:
Can I get my Deeproot Associates degree?

I suggest that you submit your thesis to Pinside Professor blueberryjohnson. He holds the first Ph.D. in this burgeoning field of study: a doctorate in deeproot studies. You may also be interested in earning two related degrees: a SkitB.A. or perhaps even an M.B.HeighwAy.

0

2

#27601 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from ForceFlow:
Some guidelines on deadline extension requests:
https://www.lexisnexis.com/authorcenter/the-journal/b/pa/posts/seeking-time-extensions-in-litigation#:~:text=With%20some%20exceptions%2C%20Rule%206,extension%20and%20show%20excusable%20neglect.
I don't see anything about hard limits on the number of times a deadline can be pushed back.
However, if a judge feels someone is wasting the court's time, the hammer will probably come down on that behavior.

From a Constitutional perspective, there is, theoretically, no limit to the number of extensions potentially available in a civil action, like a bankruptcy. In contrast, criminal defendants have a Constitutional right to a speedy trial and an inordinate delay can jeopardize that fundamental right. Civil litigants have no such overarching right.

0

6

#27755 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from BC_Gambit:
I wonder if car forums are full of people saying "why don't the big auto makers sell 3 wheeled cars?"

This deeproot thread has it all: a warehouse of orphaned hi-fi speakers, foreign bride matchmaking websites, and now the very first 3-wheeled cargument.

Never disappoints.

0

#27771 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

The jury just found Elizabeth Holmes guilty of conspiracy (count 1) in the Theranos trial. Not guilty on count 2. . .awaiting the decision on several other counts.

Financial crime accountability.

0

#27778 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from benheck:
Lot of similarities between Theranos and deeproot...

One was a bloodsucker and the other was the darling of Silicone Valley.

0

3

#28084 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Meeting of creditors adjourned until March 4 because Bobby's lawyer didn't show at the one last week.

Lawyer is a "no-show" equation:

=

3% innocuous circumstance.

97% serious underlying explanation.

Just sayin'.

0

17

#28199 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from TAVsPlace:
Will there be any new manufactures that produce games this year?

Greatwichjohn:

Screenshot_20220215-014912_Chrome (resized).jpg

0

1

#28784 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:
Cary Hardy drops all his deeproot footage unedited.

This footage is interesting. The RAZA playfield inserts presciently reveal the characters that is the deeproot fiasco:

Dare Devil Cycle: That's got to be RM. He dared the industry like a devil and well. . .failed miserably. Now, he's enduring, shall we say, a cycle of heat.

Jester: Jpop. Too obvious.

Dizzi Doozi: As many know, the phrase "It's a doozy" derives from the extraordinarily high-priced Duesenberg cars, owned by the wealthy in the 1930s. Others attribute the phrase to the slang saying: "It's a daisy," acknowledging that a particular thing is beautiful. Still others believe that the phrase is connected to popular early 1900s Italian actress, Eleonora Duse. Under any interpretation, anyone who preordered a deeproot game, is a Dizzi Doozi. Preorder customers were rendered dizzy by the beauty and left their common sense in the trunk when they unloaded their wallets.

Ferris Wheel: This item represents everyone else associated with the project, many good people in the industry to be sure. They occupied seats in a Sisyphean structure that went round and round, advancing nowhere of import, exhibiting all along the illusion of progress, only to end up at the starting point.

0

1

#28896 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
The rotating playfield thing is absolutely hilarious.
I can imagine Jpop’s hair getting stuck in it.

No doubt a Circus Voltaire reprise:

Circus Volt-hair. :>

0

9

#28944 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from iceman44:
It’s just not true. ALL advisors carry “E &O insurance”
It’s easily provable that this was not a “suitable investment” for their clients and they didn’t do the proper due diligence in executing their job
Look up another local investment advisor, Brooklyn Wily Chandler, same sort of thing, non traded REITs, scam investments sold for the commission. Happens all the time and the people that got screwed get reimbursed, hopefully and if they know what their rights are

Years ago, I had a client who lost millions in investment funds. On his behalf, I successfully sued the brokerage firms involved.

My legal theories were based upon "churning" and, as Iceman notes: "unsuitablility." Churning is a financial advisor/broker practice of wrongly generating commissions, by trading in a portfolio for that purpose alone. Unsuitability is purchasing financial products contrary to the investor's stated intention as memorialized in the investor's profile.

The problem for investors here is demonstrating that the broker knew or reasonably should have known that the deeproot investment was more risky than the investor's intention. I presume that the public appearance of the deeproot funds was conservative, much different than the reality.

The broker has a due diligence obligation greater than the investor himself/herself. However, that responsibility has its limits. The broker is not obligated to uncover that which could not reasonably be discerned. Errors & omissions insurance carriers do tend to settle in advance of trial where the proofs are established.

0

1

#28948 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Aggrieved investors are typically required to file an arbitration claim through the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA). Three arbitrators conduct the hearing.

Most large brokerage firms have enforceable arbitration clauses.

0

1

#29117 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from TreyBo69:
Some numbers on assets, income, salaries, etc[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

"Other Current Assets --- Hawaii Investment --- $135,000."

0

3

#29164 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from greatwichjohn:
Still here waiting to see who gets what from the auction, & any other useful stuff. I personally will not be buying anything going through my personal bankruptcy. Continue to talk with people in the industry, dreamers & people that still think pinball manufacturing is easy. . .People that have money, get a decent team together, & know how to properly manage can still get into the market.

Screenshot_20220316-134822_Google (resized).jpg

0

6

#29166 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from desertT1:
Seems like a promising match to the LLC partner member.
https://www.brockuphamyost.com/gregory-b-yost

Another St. Mary's Law School graduate (RM's alma mater) and "super lawyer award recipient."

0

2

#29188 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from catwoman:
In addition, this attorney specializes in estate law, which I believe was Robert's area while he practiced law.

According to online Texas bar records, RM graduated St. Mary's University Law School in 2000 whereas Gregory Yost is a 2012 graduate.

Different time periods, but similar areas of specialty in the same general locale, indeed.

0

19

#29306 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from greatwichjohn:
Even Jpop will likely find another home in the pinball world.

One bedroom, zero bath flat: featuring minimalistic architecture, sturdy wooden siding, roof and foundation, overlooking a picturesque bankruptcy auction.

Screenshot_20220320-162347_Chrome (resized).jpg

0

16

#29449 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from yaksplat:
Is no one contemplating setting up a home theater? I'd be all over this if i could get there.[quoted image]

Tainted by Jpop. It's a theatre of no magic.

Screenshot_20220323-223944_Chrome (resized).jpg

0

16

#29817 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Inside:
Uhhh can you just “unwant” something you bid on?

I once "bought" a RAZA and, a few years later, "unwanted" it. ;>

client_PART_1525469842071_IMG_3101 (resized).jpg

0

25

#29972 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:
I stand corrected on the drunk posting. There were numerous references to others drunk posting on this thread. So many people were put under JPOP's spell. Luckily for the community, most people were able to break the spell pretty quickly.

Confessions of a RAZAholic. I'll start.

I was a normal pinball enthusiast. Then, I missed out on Big Bang Bar by the hair of a tube dancer.

I got in on a WOZ Emerald City LE at the $6,500 preorder price.

I sent thousands of dollars to a perennial foam core noodler with a penchant for purple ramps that lead nowhere and obstructed target vectors in a lightening bolt clad cabinet adorned by intoxicating art he created by deft but inaccurate implication.

I was a RAZAholic.

Bought a Kingpin remake translite to secure a spot for a nonexistent game.

Preorder sobriety since then. It's a daily struggle. One day at a time.

I

0

16

#30572 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

This car was in front of me for several miles today. "Hey, a fellow pinball kindred spirit," I concluded, as I squinted to read the sticker on the rear window.

"I love my pinball, too, bro," I silently screamed down the road in his direction.

But, just like the RAZA journey, I saw what I wanted to see. Approaching the actual message for a clearer view yielded only profound disappointment. "I love my. . ." Sigh.

20220413_171147 (resized).jpg

20220413_171155 (resized).jpg

20220413_171328 (resized).jpg

20220413_171332 (resized).jpg

0

1

#30573 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

When this deeproot saga ends, I am inclined to change my avatar to a pit bull to represent the grand misinterpretation of pinball. I invite my friends here to litter the end of this thread, at that time, with a flurry of pit bull avatars.

0

3

#30576 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Tragic. That took courage to share. I'm very sorry.

My epiphany that Zidware was doomed was the moment I received the slick Jpop Alice in Wonderland solicitation. I remember opening the fancy envelope and feeling betrayed.

I soon demanded a RAZA refund and drafted the lawsuit shortly thereafter.

It took a few months to identify and hire Zane Smith, Esquire in Chicago to file the suit, although I had met Zane years earlier. I needed local counsel and Zane agreed to pursue the case.

Ultimately and fortuitously, I recouped my deposit payment ($6,250 as I recall). Nevertheless, I should have recognized the project's futility earlier, disregarding my instincts, based on an illusion.

0

27

#30664 2 years ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Over the past decade, how many times did we ask ourselves when RAZA would be released?

All along, front and center, deeproot was telling us.

Screenshot_20220418-212631_Chrome (resized).jpg

0

#30771 1 year ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from DanQverymuch:
Frankly, it reminded me of the jerk who had a large part in ruining RGP.

My thought, exactly. Frank Furhter's real identity was never confirmed, although we all had our suspicions.

0

23

#30802 1 year ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:
The most memorable scene in the yet to made documentary is of the deep six visit for a final reveal of RAZA. . .
Where’s the film and video branches of deeproot during all this? Robert invested heavily in the entertainment media and to not have a movie in the works is unbelievable. I can see Robert deciding to remake Citizen Kane, starring himself.

A Zidware/deeproot documentary in some form is likely. Indeed, I sketched out a partial narrative for an upcoming documentary series.

Some of my friends here know that I'm the arcade/pinball historian for the Arcade Dreams documentary, when I'm not working my day job. The original concept was a single, feature film. However, the project has since grown into a multi-segment 100 year arcade history.

We're hoping to secure a distribution deal in 2023. . .fingers crossed. If the initial series succeeds, a Zidware/deeproot segment may be in the offing (I'll be calling you, Blueberry).

Last year, I graduated from a character and advisor in the project to a co-producer. Consequently, I'm more involved in the documentary's direction. Some Pinsiders attended our presentation at Pinball Expo in November. The team is very talented; the director previously directed a well-received documentary entitled: Viva Amiga.

Here's the Arcade Dream trailer, which has appeared in another Pinside thread:

https://arcadedocumentary.com/

0

6

#31113 1 year ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
blameless, selfless hero?

Can we just settle on "gadfamous?"

0

3

#31330 1 year ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Atomic powered pinball? I guess that deeproot's problem didn't end with the Underwriters Lab certification.

Perhaps the deeproot release was delayed by the Atomic Energy Commission. . .remember that window in the BHZA cabinet designed to view the nuclear reactor?

20220626_171509 (resized).jpg

20220626_171542 (resized).jpg

0

3

#31345 1 year ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

A team of Dutch designers got a Magic Girl to fully function. . .interesting demo.

0

#31618 1 year ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from clempo:
How long before this Chris is known as T-man?

Well, if we're still decoding word games, Turner Pinball can be extracted into Return Pinball. But, what would be returned? The missing "elephant-in-the-room" which derives from the Zidware debacle are the lost deposits.

American Pinball made the Magic Girl games. Deeproot refunded a few RAZA/AIW deposits in part. I suspect that any company associated with deeproot assets in any substantial fashion ought to seriously consider the return of unreimbursed deposits, especially those of hobbyists from the early stages, before the Jpop implosion.

0

14

#31704 1 year ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from clempo:
Can we get the Reader's Digest version?

1) Former deeproot leadership is not involved with Turner Pinball;
2) Jpop is not involved;
3) Chris Turner won't disclose behind-the-scenes information on deeproot;
4) Turner Pinball plans to compile a package of RAZA assets to assist homebrew enthusiasts, strictly for noncommercial use;
5) Turner Pinball has not yet determined what to do, if anything, about other deeproot titles, like Food Truck.

Seems like a reasonable approach thus far.

Key post

0

1

#31711 1 year ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
Thanks for watching that and digesting for me.
I don’t know anything that I didn’t know before reading any of that.
Why is this guy making will smith style videos instead of just making pinball machines?
I just don’t understand any of this.

But, you do understand this, Levi, don't you? You've been in this hobby a long time.

The answer is the unique combination of pinball love and self love, aka ego.

People with boatloads of money, who seek to operate pinball companies, tend to create those companies in their own images. They frequently lend their namesake as well: Rockola, Genco (Gensburg brothers), Williams, Gottlieb, Stern, Jersey Jack. Robert Mueller crowned himself a designer, for goodness sakes.

Turner caught the pinball virus. The only antidote is Turner Pinball. We've witnessed this phenomenon every few years over the past decade. It's clear that Chris Turner has done his homework. He is keenly aware of the pinball community's vocal presence and he is trying to avoid the tag of the newcomer interloper.

0

3

#31903 1 year ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Oh snap. This is being streamed live. You can tune in soon to hear my beautiful voice for a while.
https://www.twitch.tv/backhandpinball

I enjoyed your interview on this podcast. For those here who might also be interested in listening, Blueberry discloses a revelation about a heretofore unknown deeproot title and the real status of Food Truck.

Key post

0

3

#32064 1 year ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Roostking:
What if he showed them some of the pinball parts he designed and now hes helping design airplane engines! He brought octo-manufacturing to Boeing.

I'll take an aisle seat, please, in Boeing's new Food Jet.

0

1

#32245 1 year ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
All right, it's time for our legal friends to weigh in. To this lay blueberry, this seems like a major development.
Well over one year since the SEC's initial complaint against Mueller—and nearly that long hearing about work toward a settlement—Robert's lawyer files an amended answer.
Details would require cross checking as each paragraph references a paragraph from the complaint (and I certainly welcome those). However, I don't believe you need to review the complaint to grasp the gist of the response.
The gist: Everything the SEC claims is BS, Bobby did nothing wrong, bring on the trial.
Seems a surprising way to go after dad and stepmom were able to skate only having to return the money put toward the condo purchases (but none of the profits from their sales).
[quoted image]
Let's get ready to rumble?

As a litigator, my guess is that the primary purpose of the amended answer was to add one or more affirmative defenses.

However, I have not compared this amended answer to the original answer.

0

15

#32249 1 year ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from frobozz:
https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2022/12/01/zidware-case-resolved/

The article does a very good job in outlining the saga's circuitous history.

The only significant event omitted is the Pintasia episode, which predated American Pinball's involvement. For those unfamiliar with that development, collector Bill Brandes formed Pintasia as a bona fide effort to rescue the project, when it became clear that Zidware was fatally faltering.

Transporting a Magic Girl prototype from Illinois to the northwest pinball show at the behest of Pintasia was itself a saga of monumental proportion.

Prior to Pintasia's formation, I had already drafted the lawsuit and I had hired Zane Smith, Esquire in Chicago to file it on my behalf. A couple of weeks later, Pintasia reimbursed my deposit to clear the path to its rescue effort, since that litigation would have impeded the endeavor.

Thereafter, nineteen collectors joined the suit when Pintasia announced that it had changed course and would not be taking over the project. The Magic Girl prototype's primitive condition convinced Bill Brandes to abandon the Pintasia take-over of Zidware.

Kudos to Kim and the other plaintiffs who tenaciously navigated their reimbursement claims to this successful result. Now, everyone ought to get the word out so that these items sell expeditiously.

0

#32356 1 year ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Downloaded another one of the other complaints. This one targets Robert. Way more details in the doc than I've excerpted. Presume this means we can expect some interesting hearings to be forthcoming.
Note in the email exhibit: literally praying for a retiree's death to keep the ponzi plates spinning.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Interesting documents. Pretty sure they meant "voided" as opposed to "avoided" in paragraph #4, though.

0

3

#32388 1 year ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
That's a wrap. SEC case against all the deeprooty companies has been settled.
[quoted image]

Reading the order, I was waiting for:
"It is further ordered, adjudged and decreed that the word 'pinbar' shall never again be uttered."

0

2

#32791 10 months ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Roostking:
Hes working the "ex wives I need to feed" . Probably wont work.

Plus, those mail-order brides require more expensive dining options. Food trucks don't cut it.

0

3

#32855 8 months ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

For a second wife, jewelry just isn't enough, evidently.

Something called "jewellery" is what is required to win her heart. Nothing less than the English-spelled gem will suffice. Who knew?

Screenshot_20230819_172148_Chrome (resized).jpg

0

1

#32856 8 months ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
SEC files a motion for summary judgment against Mueller.
From my lay reading, the SEC contends that the facts that Mueller knowingly operated a fraudulent enterprise are so plain that the judge has everything he needs already to find in the SEC's favor.

[quoted image]
Appendix of Exhibits
[quoted image]
Proposed order
[quoted image]

You are correct. Summary judgment determines a dispositive key portion of a claim where a genuine issue of material fact about that claim is demonstrably absent and discovery about that matter has concluded.

0

2

#32875 8 months ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Perhaps next he'll submit exhibits that demonstrate he is a bad attorney.

His law degree from St. Mary's University Law School would be a good starting point.

0

13

#32964 7 months ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Emkay79:
I received an email from Amazon the other day, stating I'm a member of a class action lawsuit due to a spice grinder I bought last year.
The funny part is (it is a legit email) it directed me to a website for more information and my options. The website?
www.MuellerSettlement.com

Spice Grinder was the deeproot game following Food Truck, as I recall.

0

11

#33017 7 months ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Here I'd be interested in understanding from lawyer types what goes into expert witnesses. Presumably, the SEC can challenge the expertness of any of the defense's proposed experts, no? That would be embarrassing.
I also wonder if the SEC will bring on its own pinball expert to counter the defense's claims when it comes to discussing how deeproot ran its pinball business. That would seem logical since it seems that the defense wants to make that part of the conversation, based on its most recently-filed exhibits.

Here's a link to an article about qualifying as an expert in a court proceeding.

But, allow me to offer my professional legal analysis as follows:

In my opinion, RM's chances of qualifying as a pinball industry expert are on par with Greatwich John becoming an English grammar professor.

https://www.expertinstitute.com/resources/insights/admitting-expert-testimony-under-the-frye-standard-the-ultimate-guide/

Key post

0

8

#33167 6 months ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from DanQverymuch:
I thought lawyers were supposed to be intelligent enough to avoid mistakes like "its' motion". How is that pronounced, itses?

Like everything else at deeproot (pinbars, pinpods, mail-order brides), Robert ordered apostrophes in bulk.

Evidently, the trustee couldn't unload them at the auction so the SEC is putting them to use (including misuse, in this document). ;>

0

5

#33172 6 months ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
The hell is this?
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Really purging those surplus apostrophes here. Two random placements in one sentence.

They must be getting bonus vacation days for each one they dump.

0

11

#33188 6 months ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Rocketrob:
Are we able to attend this trial. I live about 3 hours away and I will go to this is we are allowed in the court room.

Courtroom attendees must be graduates of St. Mary's School of Law and licensed members of the pinBar.

0

5

#33378 4 months ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Interesting development in the bankruptcy case:
Largely on the basis of Mueller's attempts at an 'advice of counsel' defense in the SEC matter, the trustee files a complaint against those lawyers for legal malpractice.
The trustee claims the lawyers advising deeproot / policy services knew or should have known that Mueller was setting up a ponzi scheme from the start.
[quoted image]

Furnishing legal advice to financial outfits is a risky undertaking. Legal malpractice insurance carriers charge high premiums to law firms which provide these services.

0

2

#33393 3 months ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from toyotaboy:
"witnesses can be brought in to say "nah, this guy was a good guy." Robert wants to bring in family members and former employees to vouch for him"
Jpop will vouch for me!

What about the SEC's motion to strictly limit the number of mail-order former bride character witnesses to three maximum?

0

8

#33417 3 months ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Some of the jury trial will be did he do bad things and did the bad things have a material impact. Some of it will be he did bad things, but did it have a material impact. . .If the above is the case, then this is a significant development in this long saga. The first time a body with power has decided Robert definitively did particular bad things, with his particular punishment for those bad things TBD.
Legal eagles, am I right about this?

Preliminary, you and Inside have each done a remarkable job analyzing court filings.

As a lawyer who happens to be an Eagles fan, I suppose that I qualify as a legal Eagle. I hope that my contribution is more meaningful than my team's pathetic performance these past weeks.

Pretrial rulings, including summary judgment, do indeed constitute what is called "law of the case." Those evidentiary and substantive rulings carry over into the trial. A jury or other factfinder is bound by those rulings.

A party can typically appeal rulings to a higher court after the verdict/judgment (or request reconsideration by the trial judge during the proceedings). Interlocutory appeals to a higher court in advance of the case's conclusion is a possibility, albeit a rare occurrence.

Again, I'm really impressed with blueberryjohnson and Inside. It's uncommon for a layperson to navigate through the arcane terms of the legal landscape and arrive at the correct destination. Yet, you guys are accomplishing that task time and again. You're rendering a law degree irrelevant, gents.

0

1

#33419 3 months ago

BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from Mr68:
[quoted image]

Philly is going to need some divine intervention on Monday night. I'm not sure whether angels even have the power to right this team's disjointed course.

The Eagles rarely conduct any pre-snap motion to allow Hurts to identify whether the defense is in man-to-man or zone coverage. The defense is beyond anemic.

As a Philly fan, these past 6 weeks, it's been more fun watching streams of Thunderbird pinball gameplay than watching the Birds implode.

Screenshot_20240112_175938_Chrome (resized).jpg

By pin2d

6 years ago

Topic Stats

You

Find in topic

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

Topic index (key posts)