That interview reads like he doesn't even know that he doesn't know much about pinball or manufacturing and wants to sound confident enough to attract outside investors.
(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
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Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
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Quoted from Rdoyle1978:he’s apparently been outed as a pedo rapist
He's had unsubstantiated allegations against him. One of his accusers has been charged with making false claims against another man. http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/01/26/copperfield.accuser/index.html
1 week later
Quoted from lpeters82:Assuming some software could be programmed to track a pinball
MultiMorphic already tracks the pinball as it rolls over their interactive playfield. One of the modes in Lexy Lightspeed - Escape From Earth you roll over crates to smash them open. Another you fill virtual mugs of delicious beverage, then drink them.
3 weeks later
Interesting mention that Barry is working on a farm or produce themed pin- https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/looking-for-a-farm-or-produce-themed-pin
Quoted from deeproot:Give us a little time. Barry O has one in the works.
--dT
1 month later
Quoted from Mr68:Supposed to see 5 different model games at Texas Pinball Festival 2019 and available for purchase with no wait time. That's my recollection and I would feel better if Robert or someone can confirm or correct me.
Quoted from Mr68:But I tried to find some confirmation on my quote and I cannot. My memory tells me I heard that information on a podcast interview that Robert did, but the one I listened to (again) didn't have it. And I've wasted too much time on this already. Therefore, I retract my comment and this will hopefully teach me not to shoot from the hip again.
There were stand-up banners at the Texas Pinball Festival that said the 2019 TPF will be the fifth day of Deeproot. The last photo in this post shows one of them.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-2018-texas-pinball-festival/page/27#post-4283487
1 month later
Quoted from goingincirclez:... we're witnessing the birth of something truly impressive, or a wholesale con like never before been seen in any industry.
Many cons have been larger, longer, and more influential than Deeproot, whatever their eventual accomplishments. Dutch tulips, Enron, Madoff, many multi-level marketing operations, Milkan/junk bonds, sub-prime mortgages.
Look at other Deeproot offerings when evaluating them. Maybe they'll prove their claims in the end. At this point it seems unlikely.
3 months later
Quoted from benheck:A big roadblock in the advancement of pinball are the customers.
"I hate surface mount!" they un-ironically type into their phones, which would be the size of IBM typewriters were it not for surface mount.
That is a strawman logical fallacy. No one objects specifically to surface mount, they object to being forced to spend $350 for a new board instead of 30 cents for the failed component. If surface mount becomes as easy or cheap to repair as through hole is now customer objection will disappear.
2 weeks later
Quoted from knockerlover:... my “spidey-sense” is off the charts.. they aren’t taking preorders or money so, no harm in it.. but I can’t put my finger on the gameplan.
Take a look at other Deeproot businesses. Then speculate. What if you had a bit of money and knew a fair number of investors. You're fairly knowledgeable about financial instruments and you know from reading about Enron that people with a bit of greed and money to burn will buy financial instruments that sound promising even when no one understands them.
How might you generate some buzz and get investors interested in your hot new financial instrument?
1 month later
4 months later
2 months later
Quoted from Rondogg:it can be frustrating to see words spelled incorrectly but it doesn't change their message
Yes, it literally changes the message. You're wrong. Your wrong...
Two different messages.
3 weeks later
Quoted from Mr68:Come on Deeproot. Show us a satellite image of your parking lot or something.
DRparkinglot (resized).jpg 1 week later
Quoted from CLEllison:IIRC the Star Wars release did so horribly
Roger Sharpe disagrees. See the interview in Pinball Magazine #1 for details.
Multimorphic is the king of modularity. Flipper/sling mech, buttons, playfield, and many of the electronics.
1 week later
Quoted from Maide:My collection is limited by how much space I can fit in my game room, so if a company that actually sold games (such as Stern) did this, I would own a bunch more games, even if I couldn't have every one setup all the time.
I understand your point that new companies should focus on making games at all, but I think there's value in being able to swap games easily.
If swappable games are what you want, let me introduce you to @multimorphic
Producing games right now with playfield modules that can be swapped in a minute or two.
https://www.multimorphic.com/#learn_more
Many videos at https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=multimorphic+p3
3 months later
Quoted from rubberducks:You can get granted a patent for virtually anything in the US if you're prepared to file ... see JPop's list of crap. Doesn't mean you'll be able to defend any of them.
They won't need to defend it. IF an entity tried to use their patented tech, that entity would have to 'defend' their usage of it.
Further reading: https://www.eff.org/issues/patents
5 months later
Quoted from noitbe1:Now it’s blurry . They should spread their market product infos... I don’t know why they don’t go online. I don’t get their strategy... maybe it’s just me.
Similar tactics have been used many, many times. They are red flags that at best signal the entity using them is facing significant challenges.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I’m assuming they have sex Ed in Texas?
I think he runs TPF. Ed_in_Texas
3 weeks later
Quoted from BobSacamano:the money had to come from somewhere else:
https://deeprootfunds.com/
The people who's retirement plans are funding this folly,
If it’s true the fund has people’s retirement money in it that would be interesting. How did you determine the make up of the fund?
2 months later
Quoted from CLEllison:Roberts silence on the matter is potentially hurting if not destroying the companies image.
Silence is far preferable to the nonsensical puffery of some of their early statements.
Their talk is irrelevant at this point. When they produce a game people will care. Until then anything they say will mostly be disbelieved and picked apart ad nauseum.
I don’t find it unusual that COVID set them back significantly. The supply chain has changed worldwide and has yet to settle into a new normal.
Don’t give up hope.
1 month later
Quoted from Tranquilize:Ballsy claims yet again.
Are they ballsy? Were the hammer specifications given? Maybe it’s some weird foam rubber hammer.
https://www.amazon.com/Rubies-Costume-Inflatable-Hammer-Accessory/dp/B01E1FY938
2 weeks later
Quoted from PinballManiac40:CST because Deeproot is in Texas
Texas is not on standard time again until November 1st.
2 months later
Quoted from PinballManiac40:[quoted image]
6pm CDT is 5pm CST, which is the time zone currently in effect in San Antonio.
Anyone planning to watch the stream should ask TPN if they really meant CDT (central daylight time).
CST is UTC -6 hours.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Warzard:I don’t get that now the company has build a pin, it’s still a scam, always a scam and so on... why does they have to prove everything specially to you who are in all the thread on pinside, who has a thought on everything and who will NEVER buy a pin from Deeproot no matter what. Why don’t you try to find a hobby you enjoy and start being happy with it?
Don’t shoot the messenger. If you have evidence that Deeproot has the capability of living up to their claims then share it. So far it’s not looking good.
Quoted from Mercifull:advertising drinks or food deals during attract mode
I’ve played a lot of pinball on location and never once wished the table was showing me advertisements.
Quoted from frolic:I suspect, NDA or not, they all liked being flown as VIPs to San Antonio
Lauren and Colin are both local. Doubtful either were flown.
Quoted from wrb1977:I encourage any of you that are seriously considering ordering RAZA to reach out to deeproot with any specific questions
Or you could post your questions and the answers in a public forum so there is a record of them.
Quoted from Mercifull:Deeproot might... just might... have a production line set up and will be building and shipping to customers from January.
...maybe he really does just want to keep the manufacturing a trade secret.
The kind of volume they will be shipping doesn’t need a line like Stern or any other large factory. It’s do-able with a half dozen people in the space they have.
Quoted from wrb1977:I think the underlying excitement for what deeproot Pinball is trying to accomplish is undeniable.
I think deeproot has simply been the loudest voice in the room. Think professional wrestling. Fun to watch if you don't take it seriously.
Quoted from wrb1977:I believe even the skeptics and haters are curious, intrigued, and even excited about deeproot.
I believe we all want them to produce a product and GET IT INTO CUSTOMER'S HANDS. I'm way past caring anything about them except ship your god damn pinball machines and stfu.
Quoted from wrb1977:the most recent order number indicates deeproot is on pace to make more RAZAs
It might mean they are using pseudo-random order numbers to give the illusion that orders are coming by the hundreds, better to convince people they should send money now. You can guess about what it means but if you have no evidence to back it up your guess is dismissed as speculation.
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:I'm way past caring anything about them
Quoted from wrb1977:Being you don’t care and all...why are you still here and taking the time to respond
Thanks for asking. I'll clarify.
The word "them" in my post referred to Deeproot the entity. I do still care about my fellow pinheads and would prefer none of them lose money by pre-ordering from a project that has missed most milestones they have set. Not a good bet IMO. After Deeproot proves they can get machines to their customers the risk will be much lower.
Quoted from toyotaboy:I've done pilot builds of product at a quantity of 50 between 4 engineers, and it was a fairly simple product and even then it was easily a solid week sitting on a temporary 4 bench production line. A pinball machine with that many parts to assemble between 4 engineers I'm guessing would go REALLY slow and would be a waste of resource.
None of your projects used "quad manufacturing" though, did they? It's GAME-CHANGING. Probably doesn't even use a line. 
SEND MONEY NOW
2 weeks later
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:Bowen must be loving it. Cost of living is like 100% lower than NYC.
Bowen != Bowden
One makes a lot of tutorial videos and does rules for Spooky. One runs Fun With Bonus and does rules for Deeproot.
100% lower would be zero. San Antonio CoL is not zero.
1 month later
Quoted from jawjaw:I just don't get all the hateful energy directed at bringing down DR day after day after day after day. Pretty sure everyone on pinside knows what's going on with DR or adult enough to figure it out.
Do you remember Enron? The financial crash in 2008?
Naysayers here keep pointing out the red flags of the current situation.
The solution is ship the games. The red flags become less important when games are getting to the customers.
Quoted from jawjaw:Are you saying Deeproot is cooking the books, ripping off investors, and the like?
Every failed situation is different and has different red flags.
You’re complaining the red flags keep getting pointed out when you should be complaining there are so many red flags for so long.
Ship the games and the pinball related red flags mostly go away.
Quoted from benheck:then he's created The Line Beast which must be fed. What if another game isn't ready?
Contract manufacturing. He’ll overpay for the limited skill sets the contractor has but the minute they aren’t needed anymore you cut them loose.
Need some good QC inspectors but they’re only building a few games so a rigorous QC process isn’t outrageously expensive.
The SA area has ample contract manufacturing available. That may be why DR hasn’t shown an assembly area.
1 month later
Quoted from screaminr:The last thing old want to see is Steves reputation tainted but at what point do you jump ship .
I’ve met Steve at several events. He parked at my place one year and we carpooled for TPF.
His reputation isn’t tied to DR. He’s an employee doing his best.
IMO he should leave if he feels the company is no longer viable. But employees often have little insight on that. He may not even work at the production facility (if one exists).
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:when I want a new game I should buy from JJP or Stern or CGC or Spooky or American Pinball
or Multimorphic.
2 months later
Quoted from denoument:I really don't know much about Unity so I have no clue what benefits it would have over Spike or PROC or whatever
Already been done.
https://www.multimorphic.com/p3-pinball-platform/3rd-party-developers/
“our apps are currently written in C#/mono on top of the Unity Game Engine.”
Quoted from Mr68:I was about to post, "You must be new to Pinside" when I noticed you just joined Pinside yesterday. - Welcome newbie, tell us about yourself. What gives?
The more they post the more they remind me of the banned user Cornelius.
1 week later
Quoted from Zablon:Throw a small display in similar to Circus Voltaire. You aren't looking and admiring the backglass when you are playing. No point wasting resources on it.
Did you just ask for the Pinbar?
Quoted from ZNET:What ELECTRICAL engineer doesn't keep up with "CURRENT technology?"
Same ones that aren’t all AMPed up about working for Deeproot.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:So the question remains: who will be the one to take away Robert’s Swingline? And will he set the building on fire.
Mine shows signs of use too recently to pass as anything from the Deeproot storage facility.
0D7A9019-D85E-41FC-9994-2AAEBF7DD100 (resized).jpegQuoted from valgalder:If this was really about some Raza legal issue, couldn't they at least move on and produce one of the other 100 titles they apparently have finished?
WHAT? And reconfigure the whole lin...
Oh wait, nevermind.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Question for the legal eagles since we've seen not paying employees alleged several times: Isn't that illegal?
You could submit a "Wage Claim" if you didn't get paid.
https://www.twc.texas.gov/jobseekers/how-submit-wage-claim-under-texas-payday-law
Wage Claim Process
TWC takes the following steps on a wage claim:
When we receive a wage claim, we mail an acknowledgement letter to the employee making the claim. The acknowledgement letter provides a brief overview of the wage claim process and notice of receipt of a claim.
We notify the employer by mail that a wage claim was filed and request a response from the employer. We send the employer an employer response form along with a photocopy of the claim and any supporting documents you submitted.
Once the wage claim investigation begins, an investigator may contact either party for additional information as needed.
Based on the investigation, TWC makes a decision in the case and notifies the employee and employer by mail. If either the employee or the employer disagree with the decision, each has rights to appeal.
Collection from Employer
Wage amounts awarded in wage claim cases are not drawn from state funds. Any monies due to an employee must be collected from the employer before they are disbursed.
If the money cannot be collected, TWC may file a lien as a permanent record of the debt owed to the employee by the employer. Any money collected on an employee’s behalf will be forwarded to the most current address on file with TWC. It is the employee’s responsibility to notify TWC in writing if his or her address or phone number changes.
For information regarding employers who have been found in violation of the Texas Payday Law and have active administrative liens of $2,000.00 or greater, please see Labor Law Liens.
1 week later
Quoted from TreyBo69:Bruh, look up what furlough means
They don’t go to work, don’t get paid, can’t get unemployment, and aren’t allowed to work somewhere else
It’s just a step above layoff, but at least when you’re laid off you can get unemployment checks
In Texas it's not very relevant what you call it. If they aren't getting paid through no fault of their own they usually can get unemployment (which could be a very tiny portion of their former pay.) https://www.twc.texas.gov/jobseekers/eligibility-benefit-amounts
You might be thinking of some union specific requirements? Almost no union membership down here.
Quoted from 27dnast:back to question: where did furlough info come from?
I think it came from Lil' Jon & the East Side Boyz (featuring Ying Yang Twins) and their hit song Fur Lough in 2009.
1 week later
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:He didn't like him
Believe there's at least one old topcast where python talks about John and others (and the Fountainhead)
Show 42 is a Python interview: http://www.pinrepair.com/topcast/past.php
Quoted from McSquid:No pinned posts in over a year
There is an index of key posts at the top of every page in the thread. I marked one a day or two ago. At least one other has been marked since then.
Quoted from Richthofen:The SEC write up is incredibly damning and the fraud blatant.
They don't write the accusations any other way. The SEC 'loses' all the time. As with any prosecutor you overcharge as much as you possibly can then plead it down and call it winning.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I know Robert’s act impressed people who are susceptible to the charms of allegedly rich blowhards, but many were pretty taken aback that this guy was supposedly starting a pinball company.
That’s not how people who are serious in business act. Taking to a hobby forum to fight with commoners?! Constantly trashing all of the established players in the business and making outlandish promises about outdoing them all within months?
Speaking of complete frauds, the Elizabeth Holmes of Theranos trial starts soon.
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-trial-here-is-what-to-know-about-the-hotly-anticipated-case/
Once 'worth' nine billion dollars. Critics shouted down. Business darling at the time, based on nothing but hope. People just wanted to believe.
History repeats itself - again. https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a31953/the-dale-1970s-three-wheel-gas-saver-scam/
The details are always different but as long as people want things there will be scammers trying to get their money without giving them the things.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Sept. 1, 2021 I will be filing
That’s fine but this thread is aboot Deeproot. Start your own thread.
Quoted from pinlink:That article is behind a paywall, boo
Maybe if your browser is misconfigured to allow scripts. It comes up for me.
1 week later
Quoted from Dkjimbo:Do we think we will ever see another DeepRoot update or statement from RM or do we think this will now just play out in court and we will get all further updates there? I mean what does RM even say at this point now that he’s been exposed and humiliated (rightfully so?)
Do you really think RM looks at it as being "exposed and humiliated"? I don't. I think he's going to work at his investment companies explaining to anyone who presses him on it that he's unjustly accused by people who don't understand how his successful fund management strategies are good for all his investors and would have paid off in time. Probably blaming anyone or anything convenient for any setbacks.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:If there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s that you guys have nothing better to do than listen to hours and hours of podcasts....
So here’s my three hour take on the deep root fun, as recorded a few weeks back:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/emergency-pod-56023528
Favorite thing from that link so far is I got CrazyLevi 's phone number. I'm about to text and ask if he's heard about the pinball auction this weekend.
1 week later
Quoted from Scandell:It wasn't designed to be a scam. This is how bad things can go when someone with access to money makes bad financial decisions.
I disagree. According to the SEC complaint he was using money the investors thought was being used for something else. That fits my definition of a scam even if he really intended to build pinball machines.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:No way was this just incompetence.
It's never "just" one thing. It's unlikely he came up with a plan to steal $60 million and spend some of it making pinball machines. It was incompetence that he (probably) believed he could make enough money manufacturing pinball machines to repay his investors. It was scammy that he deceived the investors in the first place.
But 'investments' are borderline shady a significant percentage of the time. You don't have ethical auditors looking over the books of every investment and private company, then publicizing the results. People invest without performing due diligence far too often. It's a rare individual that has both the time and ability to do so. We depend on investment advisors who also turn out to be shady or we minimize risk and reward by sticking with traditional stocks and mutual funds.
The desire for a shortcut to wealth is as old as humanity and there is no shortage of scumbags willing to capitalize on that desire.
1 week later
Quoted from JStoltz:people told us they weren’t good with kids (too many to count) but they’re both fantastic around our five month old and all our friends/families kids.
Our neighbors said that about their dobermans too, until one attacked the grandkid and tore its ear off.
You could rename him Mr. Blonde and tell people he's a Reservoir Dog.
1 week later
We need a new category for Failed/Unproven pinball companies. Ballarama is the latest dreamer, SKit-B, Deeproot, whatever Vonnie D's venture was called, Zidware...
They don't belong in the same category with Game Manufacturers until they ship a completed game.
Quoted from RCA1:Because in the American justice system, ANYONE is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
That's a good thing, because people are wrongly charged at times, but it also means that the guilty are slower to be punished.
Also, as noted above, if they don't let Robert live and put up a comptent defense, it's likely that a conviction could be overturned on appeal. It hasn't been proven in court (yet) that he stole the money. It would be easy to convict folks if you could prevent them from hiring defense lawyers, but not fair.
Except for the fact that people sit in jail (for literally years in some cases) before their trial, and sometimes without being charged at all.
Seems unlikely anyone would be allowed to use their suspected stolen money. Those funds should be separated and not allowed to be touched.
Quoted from flynnibus:Nothing posted from the insiders of late is surprising.
I was surprised the manufacturing facility they leased was prohibited from manufacturing.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/539#post-6598531
Quoted from Rezdog:Bible Adventures sounds like the a multi floppy early 90s pc game and not a pinball machine. Might I suggest rebranding the title to this epic and much anticipated release to … The Holy Roller
License Holy Smoke from Iron Maiden
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Oh snap, here's the one for the eager beavers[quoted image]
Don't get too excited about the domain registration expiring on 11/19/21. It goes into a 60 day hold period before going up for auction. Not sure how long the auction period is but if it got any amount of traffic at all it's likely to be bought by a speculator hoping the original owner will pay big bucks to get it back. In the meantime it will host ads.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:The stupidity of the idea to get cheap labor to assemble these pre-built sub-assemblies can not be ignored.
Part of good engineering is designing things that DON'T required highly skilled labor to assemble them. The lower the skill level required the larger your potential labor force and the less you have to pay them.
It's not that hard to assemble a pinball machine. It takes good documentation and some mechanical aptitude. I could have most people productive on assembly the first day they show up for work.
The challenging part is doing it at scale. Optimizing everything about your operation. That optimization determines your build cost long term.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Hoteldrummer:You're going to tell me that if YOU worked there and saw there was NO manufacturing and NO REAL intentions of manufacturing the games that YOU KNEW people put money on, you would have the attitude of why should I say anything? Give me a damn break. Would you feel fine with getting a paycheck knowing its coming from a company that is lying and STEALING from people?
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
Prove that any worker there KNEW there was no manufacturing and never would be. Of course you can't. As with every other company that has ever existed they would have put their own positive spin on any setbacks and made excuses.
You write like you've never had a job. Most people go to work and do the best they can, trusting that it will work out in the end. It's pretty rare that fraud happens on a massive scale and when it does most employees can look back on weird stuff that didn't seem too exceptional at the time.
Quoted from hank527:When does RM go to jail
First there has to be a guilty plea or verdict. Then sentencing
Then possibly jail
Quoted from hank527:When does RM go to jail
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:First there has to be a guilty plea or verdict. Then sentencing
Then possibly jail
Quoted from flynnibus:First there needs to be a criminal case…
Which there isn’t (yet)
Yes. Point being asking about jail time is silly right now. If it ever happens it's a long ways off.
1 week later
Quoted from benheck:He stole $60m from little old ladies. Fuck his privacy.
IF he did that and WHEN it’s proven, punish him.
Until then treat everyone fairly. Even suspected scumbags.
3 weeks later
Quoted from Tranquilize:He likely has ZERO connections in the legal and/or business world that would help him.
The patent troll community is pretty small and full of scumbags with nothing better to do that pull legal shenanigans. Odds are a shell company somewhere is out there willing to help.
1 month later
Quoted from benheck:Atari is the only thing from that era with even a remotely relevant mass market nostalgia,
I still have the emulator Stella installed somewhere and I can only stand to play any of the 2600 games for a couple minutes at a time now. They have been surpassed in every possible way.
My one exception is Adventure. Still love walking into the programmer's room.
Quoted from Rarehero:I feel like most of us hated Atari 2600 even when it was what we all had. Even as a small child, I hated how crappy most of the arcade posts were. NES games still hold up. Atari consoles sucked at the time and suck now.
Remember how bad the Battlezone port was? Nothing could compare to those vector graphics and the double sticks to control your tank on the arcade version felt totally different. I was so disappointed with Battlezone. That might have been the last new game I bought for the 2600.
Pac-Man was also poorly done but it did have a very easy kids mode that my mom loved. She stayed up all night playing it once.
2 weeks later
Quoted from jonnyqtrek:All of that heavy machinery... Are those actually appropriate choices of equipment type for the goal of pinball manufacturing?
I can't imagine why they would have picked a gun lathe. Those are designed with extra support for long boring, like a gun barrel. A standard lathe is pretty useful for making lots of stuff buy why they picked this one is anyone's guess.
Quoted from benheck:this was stupidity, not a scam.
It's really not relevant if he stupidly thought the venture would make money. It was a scam at the point where he LIED to investment advisors and clients so he could STEAL THEIR MONEY and use it for other than what he said it was being used for.
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2021/comp25179.pdf
"Mueller and deeproot told investors that the 575 Fund would invest “the simple majority of our Fund Assets” in life insurance policies."
"Defendants raised more than $58 million ... spent less than $10 million to purchase life insurance policies for the Funds"
"Defendants used the vast majority of the Funds’ assets... like a piggy bank to fund Mueller’s deeproot-affiliated businesses... Mueller funneled more than $30 million... to (his business ventures) ...whenever he determined they ...had expenses that needed to be paid, and he did so without any analysis as to whether such transfers constituted suitable investments for his client Funds. Further, Mueller made these transfers ...without obtaining anything of substance in return for the Funds and without memorializing the transactions in any way."
If I give you $1000 to start a pinball company and you fail that's not a scam. If I give you $1000 to invest in life insurance annuities and you use it to start a pinball company you have STOLEN it and you are a THIEF. It doesn't matter if you're also stupidly thinking you can turn a profit with the stolen money.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Robert admitted he sold directly to some retirees. No investment advisor to go after.
Quoted from TreyBo69:I guess I’ll take this as the closest I’ll personally get to a “hey you were right and making sensible deductions off of observation” as I’ll get.
You weren't right. There are investment advisors to go after.
You are likely right that SOME people who were scammed bought directly from Robert. Like iceman44 said, there is a long list of people in the SEC filings.
Think of it as multi-level marketing. Bob sold to investment advisors, they sold to investors. Given the lack of record-keeping mentioned in the complaint it's likely the investment advisors didn't perform their due diligence on a regular basis so could be liable. I imagine it's probably a fairly large hill to climb trying to prove that. Maybe the SEC case and any future criminal case will help those that were scammed get their money back.
The lathe high bid is currently $25. Retail is about $6k. Without being able to inspect it I question whether it has both chucks, the tool post, and other items it came with. Rather difficult to move too, it's not something you just throw in your trunk.
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115284647/grizzly-12--x-36--gunsmithing-lathe-with-stand
Interesting bit about pick-up: "ALL ITEMS MUST BE PICKED UP BY FEBRUARY 10th @ 4:00PM"
That does not make sense. Cut & paste error maybe?
Quoted from ForceFlow:Yep, had to go back into a previous court filing to confirm that. 2pm CST.[quoted image]
Your photo does not say CST, it says 2pm. We are not currently on standard time in the US.
Quoted from frolic:To those that know the value of some of that industrial gear; what's the most shocking "pennies on the dollar" auction?
Nothing is shocking because nothing has sold. No way to tell if anything will go for pennies on the dollar or stupid multiples of reasonable prices.
Quoted from iceman44:stay tuned, additional bidders?
Maybe these mysterious entities are the ones greatwichjohn has been so cryptic about!
1 week later
Quoted from ForceFlow:Who knows. Maybe he said he would reverse the transaction? Or maybe he used an empty visa gift card?
I've had that situation happen to me before--where the high bidder backs out and the auctioneer offers it to underbidders. I guess it's quicker & easier for the auction house to go down the list rather than trying to chase down a non-payer for payment. Then I guess they just ban the non-payer after that.
Shill bidder was the auction house. The shill drove up your bid, then the auction house cashes you out at a higher price than you would have won it without the shill involved.
That was one of the reasons I quit bidding at Super Auctions in Mesquite. The phantom bidders outnumbered the real bidders sometimes.
1 month later
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I am always available to help out with production.
Thanks for letting us know. For the (literally) at least 22nd time in this thread.
1 month later
Quoted from Seraph:I've tried percent encoding, base64, and base64url with no luck:
Was there a least significant bit steganography test in any of the programs you ran the image through?
2 weeks later
Quoted from greatwichjohn:This is a serious venture on my part, & time will tell this summer. Do not know how people compare me to all the big scams in pinball.
Because you keep posting in the thread dedicated to the biggest scam in pinball, reminding people you've gone bankrupt, and asking for money from people who know better.
2 months later
Quoted from Mr68:Robert has a wife and 2 children who are innocent in all of this. He needs work to support them. He also may be required to pay restitution at some point. Boeing is a big company with lots of employees and doesn't need saving.
I recommend leaving things alone and allow events to play out on their own. If convicted, he'll be a first time offender, not necessarily a repeat offender.
If he stole 60 mil like he’s accused of he’s more than welcome to pay it off one license plate at a time like the rest of the criminals. His loved ones can get support from their families and get jobs.
4 months later
Quoted from CrazyLevi:There's still people who insist it wasn't a Ponzi because he always "meant to build pinball machines."
Monthly reminder: It was always a Ponzi.
If you and Sean 'The Storm' Grant do a collaboration on a song called "It Was Always A Ponzi" I'll download it.
Quoted from Steve_in_Escalon:Unless you have a new job, there are times when a late paycheck is better than no paycheck.
If your employer can’t keep payroll straight it’s time to go.
Worked a temp job for Manpower once. They sent group wide email one week that said they didn’t get our hours submitted to corporate and we would not be getting paid on time. I called the office manager and explained their error was not my problem and when I arrived at the office I expected my paycheck would be ready or we would be having a discussion about their priorities going forward. I am a 6’6” 210 lb former Marine. When I arrived at the office I went to the manager’s office and told the person the manager was meeting with to give us a few moments. I closed the door and the blinds. I reiterated my stated position and left with my check. Never happened again.
4 weeks later
Quoted from CrazyLevi:He’s a fucking Boeing exec.
Quoted from Inside:Supposedly Robert is no longer employed at Boeing. Apparently he’s no longer reachable on their internal messaging system. Hard to verify though.
Been waiting in the breadline for about a month it seems. Hope it's moldy when he eats it.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Richthofen:it’s indirectly built off of a fraud that scammed retirees out of their money.
Where do you draw that line? If the allegations from the SEC are even true (which let's face it, every human being embellishes and adversaries in an SEC enforcement action are no different in that regard) there are literally hundreds of people and vendors that got some of that money. Employees, landlords, vendors all received some of the allegedly tainted money.
IMO Turner is at worst a capitalist opportunist but so are many business owners.
But please people, don't pre-order anything.
Quoted from Richthofen:CT wrote the software to manage retiree investments and therefore likely had insider information about the life insurance policies he later bid on
You’re attributing a lot of knowledge to a guy who wrote some software. I think it’s more likely he made a Google doc for Deeproot and management was so blown away by his l33t skilz they gave him additional projects.
It’s a big jump from software vendor to shady insider screwing the bankruptcy trustee. I’ll believe that when I see good evidence to support it.
1 month later
Quoted from TreyBo69:I was reading this and thought of my favorite bumbling criminal
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/06/dc-solar-power-ponzi-scheme-scandal/673782/
One of my favorite lines from the article, "",,,I was so willing to go along with stuff I should have walked away from,” he told me this past September, by phone from federal prison."
Especially the prison part.
Quoted from Keylime:Could someone help me understand why this thread is still getting posts?
Because the case is ongoing. Next court action is Monday.
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