deeproot Pinball thread

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#3230 4 years ago

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Quoted from Brijam:
Come on. It's vastly more likely that someone with industry experience knows what they're talking about than someone who doesn't have industry experience. Honestly, would you take someone's advice about clearcoating a playfield if they hadn't done it before? Even if they might be right?

There are no rules in art, regardless of who you work for. Commercial art is controlled by consumer preference, and I trust people outside of the industry more than you (especially the way you're presenting it) as they are a good measure of average aesthetic appeal. If people don't mind the mix of 2d/3d, I say good job Deeproot!

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#3369 4 years ago

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Quoted from lpeters82:
Pinball is a relatively small-niche hobby. I wouldn't even consider a new JPop game from Deeproot unless they made things right with his past customers. I assume there must be others who feel the same. While there likely is little legal repercussions, I assume the negative PR must outweigh the cost of fulfilling those debts. I don't feel JPop is worth that, at this point, but obviously Deeproot disagrees. Either way, I applaud Deeproot for taking on those debts and settling with Applejuice and others.

Most pinheads could care less about jpops previous stupidity and the gambling of other pinheads. If his designs are good, they will sell. There must be something more here. I'm assuming they acquired his designs and patents, and I'm guessing he's working for dirt until things are squared up.

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#3504 4 years ago

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I was another lurker really hoping for this company with my wallet ready. Once you start insulting JJP, a company that has taken huge risks and rigorously pursued innovation, I start to walk away.

I think this guy honestly believes (like others) that pinside is just a negative pinball swamp. For the most part, it isn't. It is merely a critical group of people that spend a lot of money on toys. Check out the car forums: same thing. Insulting the people here WILL equate to a loss of sales. I think we all know that supply is growing faster than consumption in the pinball market, so every single sale counts, and a single sale can equate to a lot of word-of-mouth if the product is good.

There is so much choice out there that each of us can easily say, "I won't buy from these guys." My new outlook on DR is that this guy deserves to fail. I'll buy from JJP, that drab company that can't seem to get its act together with Lawlor and friends...

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#3509 4 years ago

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Quoted from DS_Nadine:
How does one walk away from himself?

I don't understand what your confusion is. I stated I'd walk away from Deeproot and buy from JJP... Pretty straightforward language.

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#3521 4 years ago

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Quoted from DS_Nadine:
I'm not confused.
You should just read what you actually wrote/ I quote.
Edit: *hint* Stop insulting JJP. *hint*

Maybe this is a German/English thing? There's nothing wrong with my post, and your quote does not make sense.

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#3543 4 years ago

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Quoted from Rdoyle1978:
He was being sarcastic, throwing deeproot’s words back at them. His statement was intended as supportive of JJP. He probably should have put quotation marks around the offending phrase.

Correct. The tone is pretty clear, and just look at my collection to see if I love Lawlor. Either way, all good. Love jjp, and now generally dislike deeproot.

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#3611 4 years ago

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If this small collectors market isn't with pleasing, why do all other major players work so hard to do so? To me, this attitude will come back to haunt them unless their games are leagues ahead of their competition like they say, which I see as hyperbole. If they are even on par with them and collectors have a close choice, this negative image could seriously affect sales. My simple question is why risk it? It's seriously business 101. Ask any business owner on here.

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#3615 4 years ago

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Quoted from Bublehead:
Because the seriousness people throw around in here is pure bullshit on the planetary scale... because on this planet right now, statistically speaking, nobody gives two Hershey squirts about deep root pinball except Pinside. That makes me laugh, har-de-har-har!

Then why bother participating? Pinside is a niche hobby forum not meant to appeal to your aunt Bertha or your uncle Percy. With that context, most of us enjoy taking the hobby seriously, and there is serious cash in this industry. Just ask Gary.

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#3717 4 years ago

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Quoted from Oldgoat:
I never grammar police; however, it is a tough one for me because, if I misuse or misspell a word, I want it to be pointed out so that I avoid doing it in a context where it may matter. I'm not talking about obvious typos, but incorrect words and usage. I'll be chomping at the bit to see all the flustrated people casting there downvotes.

No need for the comma after "because" because it is functioning as a conjunction before a dependent clause. Also, no comma before "but" as it is not functioning as a coordination conjunction, just a plain old conjunction. These don't matter very much, so you may not care.

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#3751 4 years ago

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Quoted from FlippinJB:
Just to add to the grammar mix, a comma before a coordinating conjunction is perfectly fine if it aids the readability of the text - especially when the conjunction is coordinating longer independent clauses. It allows the reader to take a 'mental breath'.
I don't know whether to buy a Wonka or wait for deeproot to come out with something. I have a blank space in my line-up, and some cash in my pinball pot (a bit goes in from my wages each month!) Hmm. I just wish they'd say *something* more than they have so far!

Commas are required with coordinating conjunctions, no exceptions, but if you read the quoted sentence, the conjunction is not coordinating. A coordination conjunction (and, but, or, for, nor, yet, so) requires indpenendent clauses on either side; otherwise, the conjunction is just a conjunction and does require a comma. Commas with conjunctions that are not coordinating happen often, and in the case provided, one could be used. I just wouldn't use one, and it's definitely not required.

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#3801 4 years ago

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Without grammar, there's nothing to do in this thread except rehash old dismay about Deeproot while we wait, and wait, and wait... How about that old logo. Kinda looks like a bum hole. New one looks far too busy. Anyone have an alternate deeproot logo to post?

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#3886 4 years ago

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Quoted from benheck:
RE: ramps my is theory is since John "proved everyone wrong" when the TOTAN curve ramp worked this means any future ramp idea he has also will work, guaranteed!

To be fair, the totan ramp is the best ramp in all of pinball.

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#3996 4 years ago

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Racism and sexism should be reported, but that's about it. A good internet fight is great entertainment. I really miss the Todd Tuckey book deal thread. Better than a UFC title fight!

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#4037 4 years ago

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Quoted from Extraballz:
If Deeproot could just step up the build quality of current machines that would be a great marketing tool to use against the other manufacturers. It would give DP a good push forward on sales IMO and probably make the other manufactures tighten up their quality issues. One can hope.....

JJP has pushed Stern a little in this area. Only problem is that Stern will strip toys etc. if they have to up their game elsewhere. It all depends on how much Gary is skimming off the company. In my eyes, considering what I paid for my IMDNLE and what I received, I'd say a lot. It's going to be pretty hard or near impossible for a new company to be as efficient as Stern though, which means they will not be able to pass a lower profit margin on to the customer. I think Gary is riding this bubbly wave to retirement. I think he's smart enough to remember the lean times and to know that this age we're in is an old-man-toy window that ain't gonna last forever. People are buying sight-unseen toys for 9k+, no matter how much they strip out of them.

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#4065 4 years ago

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Quoted from Reznnate:Deleted post

prev (resized).jpg

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#4336 4 years ago

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Quoted from frolic:
There’s always been lots of cash and some very happy pin industry people with regular pay checks. Not sure a few refunds makes any difference with shipping machines.

I think it makes a huge difference. How many other manufacturers could offer such a payment before their first production? To me, this shows they are very far from insolvent, which means we're very likely to see at least one title, possibly more. This inspires confidence in me for sure. I just hope the PR is a new priority. I don't think some companies realize how easy it is to get a bad rep on here and just how badly it can hurt your bottom line. The solution is not rocket science: stay positive and ignore the trolls.

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#4350 4 years ago

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Quoted from Brijam:
So you're saying there's zero chance that a lawsuit would be brought without some kind of settlement offer like this? In my opinion, they did the math and this was way cheaper than fighting a potential lawsuit. Period.
I want deeproot to succeed and bring interesting pinball to the table. But no points should be awarded for honoring a legal agreement created to cover one's own ass.
I look forward to seeing any kind of update that shows an actual product is being worked on.

If they acquired designs that are attached to debt, someone could sue. The company could just pay to license the designs and you could then sue Jpop for his profits. Or they could easily tweak the designs and have zero liability. We’d have to see if they even used any of his previous desires from zidware to see if there would be a chance for legal action. Doubtful that anyone wants to waste time and money to get their 7k or whatever back Anyway.

I personally see it as goodwill on their part as it would be easier to avoid any previous designs.

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#4365 4 years ago

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Quoted from flynnibus:
Robert clearly thinks JPOP is some mastermind that just needs the right environment to produce... so he built that.

I’m glad they did. Help or not, I love Jpops games.

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#4390 4 years ago

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Quoted from CLEllison:
I just watched a 10 minute video of magic girl. 10 minutes of just nothing exciting, no multi balls (none), crappy "repetitive" audio sounds like a 70's clown sound of a straw with water in it being blown across and lazer sounds. It's like almost everything on the pf is bash toy.
It's really the first time I've ever really looked at/into this machine. This is kind of a crappy game honestly. I sure as hell hope they're planning on redoing this machine or the value better be ~ that $5000 mark. Seriously I think Cosmic Carnival is better than this. I've always enjoyed JPOP titles but this is a real Cleveland steamer. A good looking Cleveland steamer but a steamer none the less.

Don't you think that the game being incomplete, as in, not even close to done, has a bearing on it being good or bad?

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#4473 4 years ago

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Loved that show.

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#4614 4 years ago

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Quoted from Mr68:
Not sure what you're going on about but it was changed some time ago. Here is their current logo.[quoted image]

The original design was much cleaner (better) by logo standards. People on here trashed it so badly that they changed it. Listening to pinside is a sign of weakness. Grow a set, Deeproot!

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#4628 4 years ago

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Quoted from jorro:
What did you say? Raza has a robot
How original!
[quoted image]
Almost as original as the heron up the ars logo

At least they're trying unlicensed themes.

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#4667 4 years ago

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If each person was allowed one ten and one one, the system would be a little better. Not averaging pro/prem/LE killed any semblance of genuine ratings the list ever had. Such a bad choice.

Really enjoyed wolf's IMDNLE review:

"Game is overrated. Like it and fun to play, but not top 10 or maybe even 20. Huge easy ramp in the middle is why noobs like this game." 1/10.

L-O fucking L!

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#4672 4 years ago

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Quoted from Brijam:
Because nobody ever creates fake accounts?
Online reviews shouldn't be taken seriously (any of them). Trolls, confirmation bias, new games getting the novelty bonus, astroturfing, and review bombing play a part. Also some people have very strong feelings about a game.[quoted image]

That doesn't mean Robin and crew shouldn't do their best to try to help alleviate these issues. For example, averaging models helps to calm the excessive ratings of LE owners. To me, this would be common sense design. I Like it or not, the top 100 is the most popular part of pinside, and I felt that before the model
ranking issue, the list was pretty representative of what I consider to be the great, good, average, not so good and garbage machines. Now it has the disease of every new LE in the top 20...

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#4677 4 years ago

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Quoted from flynnibus:
LEs just exaggerate a simple problem that was always there. Most people can’t be objective about something they are heavily vested in. The more money in... the bigger the problem.
Crowd sourced reviews are always going to be junk. Since the reviews are done by those with energy to do it... instead of true random sampling... you don’t get the averaging out of bad reviewers.
Compound this that many reviewers simply don’t know what they are talking about... you get a “popularity contest”... not actual worthy reviews. That’s why new games always surge to the top group of the ratings.
The solution is either vetted raters- or just change it to a simple scale and allow (or solicit users to pump up participation) to acknowledge what they think of a title. Like/dislike/indifferent and list games by their percentages
And “most popular part of pinsidde”? I can’t think of anyone I know that uses it at all... maybe in page views... but how much of that is search engines, etc.

I agree in general but also see the system as somewhat accurate. The old w/b titles at the top are top games imho. I'm not a huge fan of AFM, but I can objectively see why ppl love it. It's like IMDb I guess. It makes sense of you strip out the recent blockbusters.

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#4891 4 years ago

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#4932 4 years ago

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Another post clarifying that nothing goes on in this thread. It would be appreciated if someone could clarify my post for me so others could me motivated to add clarity as well.

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#5055 4 years ago

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I hope they do innovate the hell out of the industry; it's in dire need of it. Of course, the games have to be fun, but I can't wait for a new pf material and other improvements, along with hopefully more competative pricing. I just wish they never posted the previous bullshit on here. I'm still not over it.

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#5118 4 years ago

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So they want unlicensed lawyers to provide feedback about a prototype? Sounds risky.

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#5157 4 years ago

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Yeah, it's only the rich companies that can afford to defend patents. The most ridiculous patent, by far, is Christian Louboutin patenting red soles on women's shoes. He has successfully sued several other designers that use the color red. Crazy shit. shoes (resized).jpg

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#5182 4 years ago

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Quoted from wolfemaaan:
Actually not crazy, they put the red under sole on the map. Ask any woman what high heel has a red sole and they'll tell you Louboutin. So its a brand for sure which is why they win in court. So name a Pinball MFG that is doing that design right now? Nobody. So if Stern copies it they'll be a lawsuit for sure and Stern will lose. Stern doesn't care about this stuff though, at least not to date so nobody will be copying this. On the other hand, Stern Copied JJP when they came out with an LCD's, but I'm sure JJP didn't have a patent and giving attention to Stern for making a smaller display wouldn't make sense regardless as its inferior out the gate.

Previous judges do not agree with you. These corporations just find another court and another judge until one works out for them. I don't give a shit what the public thinks about red soled shoes. He wasn't the first one to do it and should have no right to patent a color. Madness.

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#5600 4 years ago

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Overhype via outlandish and offensive claims? YES.

Did they produce a freakin’ awesome looking Jpop machine? YES!

Here are some ifs:

IF the game plays like a classic jpop, and IF the code is good, and IF the qc is good, and IF they price it right, and IF they can distribute in a timely fashion, and IF Stern will not make it right with customers that have PF issues, deeproot could be on its way to dethroning the current penny-pinching, ostrich head-in-the-sand qc modeled Stern. I really hope we can move on to higher quality matched with more affordable pricing.

IF!

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#6077 4 years ago

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1. People hate Jpop because of his business decisions. Fair. That does not give anyone a licence to claim they know that he "always" needs help with his designs and is just a shit-show for pinball design. Good designers would welcome help. Jpop designed some great classics that are well respected in the community. That is the plain truth.

2. Robert came across as a self-centered asshole when he posted here. I remember clearly, and I still cringe while thinking about it. After many months, I'm willing to chalk it up to overconfidence induced by excitement. When people shit on your unicorn, you might lash out too. I'm willing to move on from this.

3. Yes, the launch is delayed like they all are, and promises were not met. They say they are designing more than one game, and maybe they are delaying to do everything right. They have the money, so why not? They are hopefully going to pump out high-quality machines. I'm willing to wait if that is true.

4. The game is a prototype. Why can't so many of you understand this? The ramp shot isn't being made well because the game is likely playing VERY differently at the show than it did in the design studio. Do you really think they sat there and shot the ball half way up the ramp for a week and said, "That'll do 'er!" ???

5. Finally seeing a guy who could play (most recent vid) shows that this game shoots well, with the exception of under-powered flippers. I do think diverters are smarter design than steepness though. My games are always jacked to max steepness, so if that doesn't work with that ramp, it would be a big problem for me.

6. This game is not supposed to be a Stern. It appears to shoot like Jpops 90s designs, just like DI shoots like a polished older lawlor. If you want combo city, buy a stern. I look forward to some "bump into new mechs" and some stop and go. I consider myself a good player and I still have a blast when playing TOTAN. The design amazes me.

7. See number 4.

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#6192 4 years ago

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Quoted from thedarkknight77:
Not saying build a Stern at all, not even close, but I am saying if you choose to bad mouth Stern, you better deliver one hell of a game and this game does not deliver enough to warrant Roberts attitude. Three of the latest Stern games all destroy this game, i.e. Deadpool, Jurassic Park, Iron Maiden.

I'd say even Avengers would destroy most prototypes....

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#6412 4 years ago

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"What a mess"
"It's a prototype"
"I WANT TO MAKE FUN OF IT BEING A PROTOTYPE"
"I hate Robert"
"The flippers are weak"
"You can't read."
"The flippers are weak."
"It's a dumpster fire."
"It's a prototype"
"The plastic mecs are too cheap"
"The font has too thick of a stroke"
"Everyone here hates pinball"
"I hate pinside"
"Me too."

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#6677 4 years ago

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I read the whole shebang, and that $2 happens to be $2.50 up here!

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#6714 4 years ago

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Quoted from wolfemaaan:
[quoted image]

I can see not proofreading a post, but a meme?

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#6734 4 years ago

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I'm excited for what I see. Those shots look great. I was concerned about the centre shots, but they look way better than the other videos showed. At first I thought the ramp was a little bunk, but seeing him nail it dead on changed my mind. He made it with lots of power left over. I consder myself a pretty good player, and I can see that I'd make it often, but not every time. I like the drop offs in TOTAN, so I'm sure I'll like these. If there's more to come on this machine, I'm definitely excited to play it and possibly buy it.

STERN RIPPED ME OFF on my last NIB purchase from them, and it looks like they are not going to make it right. I'm excited to move on and give someone else a try.

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#6835 4 years ago

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JJP is like W/B to me, but adjustable. If they are too soggy, you can up the voltage. I love them, but they take a bit to get used to if you play a Stern right before. Stern's are snappy, and I love them too. Stern games are great for playing combos and trap and shoot. They are awesome to learn to play pinball like the pros. I love most pinball styles. Hell, I'll even play Orbitor 1 and have fun . . . for a while.

As already stated, it's just Stern's shit quality that is the problem on their end.

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#6860 4 years ago

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Quoted from vicjw66:
If I was starting a pinball company, my first move would be to do everything I could to hire George Gomez to run it. Then Lyman Sheats as lead coder. As far as designing games fast, that really isn’t the bottleneck. I don’t need a fast designer, I need an innovative designer.

If I was starting a pinball company, my first move would be to do everything I could to not hire George Gomez. I'm the rare person excited to see jpops creations come to fruition. Gomez has a few great games, but more stinkers come to mind. Remember, Transformers and Avengers exist because of him.

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#6862 4 years ago

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Quoted from CrazyLevi:
What you are completely missing here is that George Gomez knows how to run a successful pinball company and Jpop doesn't.
Gomez knows reality while Jpop knows only bullshit and fairytales.
Gomez can steer a pinball company through turbulent times, Jpop can steer a company only into failure, bankruptcy, and tears.

Good thing jpop had been reduced to a designer. I love his designs.

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#6902 4 years ago

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I'm still deeply rooting for deeproot. I hope RAZA is released soon and that others follow in its path. It a great time for pinball, and I think it will be short-lived. Get in while the gettin's good!

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#6920 4 years ago

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Quoted from CrazyLevi:
Man more Italian bottoms here than a gay dating site in Rome.
You guys say you want “innovation” but what you really mean is “gimmicks.”
Gimmicks don’t generally make for good games, especially when you are talking about layouts. That’s why they are gimmicks.

Which horrible gimmicks are you referring to? The Castle in mm, with its gate and draw bridge? The power pf on tz? The genie and lamp from totan? The supercharger on hs2? I'm with you. These games would be so much better if Gary was in charge and pulled then all. Every game could be like bk3. Pintopia!

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#6940 4 years ago

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"This invitation-only event will feature the long-anticipated launch of the deeproot Pinball company after several years of safeguarded R&D."

I am really gunning for them to release a great game, but they REALLY need a constomer relations officer that knows what the fuck is going on in the world of pinball. They are so damned presumptious that I wouldn't go to that event if I lived next door and they fed me for free. Damn.. How do they screw EVERYTHING up? It's baffling.

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#7223 4 years ago

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I'm glad they have stopped talkin' the talk and walkin' the walk instead. Good on Deeproot. Still have some nightmarish memories of Robert that refuse to dissipate and hate their shoddy attempt at manufacturing exclusivity, but I'm still super excited to see the new Jpop games. TOTAN has the best ramp in all of pinball IMHO, so I hope the new ramps are equally cool.

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#7350 4 years ago

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Quoted from Mercifull:
I'm sure this has been discussed before but the thread is getting quite large now...
With regards to the Deeproot Launch (now less than 2 months away) surely we must assume at least announcements of more than one machine, if not a full reveal?
If we assume that JPop is leading on RAZA and AIW then surely there are additional machines each by the following designers, Dennis Nordman, Jon Norris and Barry Oursler right? So that's at least five machines in development all at the same time. There is only actual time within the schedule for a playthrough demo of RAZA and even that is only 10minutes. No manufacturer is going to want to reveal the playfield before the official announcement, especially if its a licenced theme but we may need some teasers?
Of course, this isn't just a pinball event. It's also the launch of Deeproot Studios, will we see a surprise feature film announcement or Netflix (other streaming services are available) series? They were quite active last year with sketches and concept art being shared but they've gone very quiet in recent months. They cannot surely be only working on RAZA 2D animation given the talent they've employed.

They are likely going to release a lot of games. Exciting! Their timing isn't very good though. With Stern's crazy production schedule, the market had become pretty saturated. Games better be damned good!

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#7561 4 years ago

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Quoted from mbeardsley:
I fully expect to see only a slightly updated version of RAZA...and not much else (besides talk of "lots of amazing games and innovations that aren't being shown yet").

I fully expect to see much more. Exciting!

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#7639 4 years ago

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I think we're all going to be pleasantly surprised. Robert is guilty of hyperbole, for sure, but there are a lot of great people working for Deeproot. Jpop, love him or hate him, produced some of the best pinball machines in history, with some help. His designs are some of my favourites. There are many other talented people on the team. They are not working toward failure and know how to produce good pinball machines. To think that all of these experienced industry people are working toward an absolute failure of a long-overdue reveal is ridiculous. You nay-sayers are straight-up wrong, and you'll see at the reveal.

I personally thought Robert's comments were bullshit and think the guy should get the hell out of promotion. Stick to being the money guy and hire people that know what they're doing. The competition is weak as shit: some ego-kids that drink beer and stream themselves playing pinball.

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#7793 4 years ago

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post (resized).jpg

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#7834 4 years ago

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Sorry for the derail, but this about Spooky caught my attention much more:

"...we’re really excited to get Ben back, and it has been great planning and working with him again. And I think when people see what he’s done – I think when people see the layout and the coolness that Ben has come up with, it is pretty amazing.”

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#7857 4 years ago

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Quoted from Brijam:
I personally think it’s a huge mistake not to disclose the refreshments at least 60 days in advance. It’s common practice to thoroughly list all libations. Doesn’t Stern have an entire part of their website dedicated to them? This just feels like a huge mistake.

Stern is now a lifestyle brand; therefore, we know their refreshments will be craft beer that goes with the perfect lumberjack beard and flat brimmed cap, sticker and all.

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#7901 4 years ago

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"It is unfortunate that the unprecedented COVID-19 (Chinese coronavirus)"

I'm assuming Robert wrote this. Only he would be dumb enough to include racism in the message. Fox News started this BS.

This post was moderated 4 years ago: Pinside rule #1: Be nice!

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#7920 4 years ago

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Quoted from Roostking:
According to the Chinese, its was the US Army!!!!
Soo, whats it like walking about ready to be super offended. You must be a joy to hang with lol!
Too bad about all these cancellations though, real people are going to be affected by a virus that was cooked up in a Chinese lab, to divert attention from HK, that got out of control.. Or did it???

I'm rarely offended by much, really. But the name of the virus is clear: Covid 19. There has been an uprise if violence toward Chinese ppl since the outbreak. Changing the name to something racial does nothing good. And I never said Robert was a racist. I just said, as I have before, he's an idiot when it comes to p.r.

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#7940 4 years ago

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Quoted from Viggin900:
I don't really care if its licensed or not, too many people see that as being the most important.The 2 games I have by Barry are not licensed and I love them. Thats why I'm excited about this company and the titles. They aren't hiding behind a license to cover up a bad game like you know who.

I'm super excited for unlicensed themes. I was more motivated to buy DI because it was unlicensed. As long as the games are great, I'll do my best to support!

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#7954 4 years ago

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Quoted from Fulltilt:
Did the Spanish get there asses kicked in 1918?

You are correct that historically flus have been named by starting location. This has changed for the reasons I've mentioned.

Your using the classic "appeal to tradition" fallacy.

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#7967 4 years ago

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Quoted from wolfemaaan:
Hey, now theres that Deeproot thread I remember. Back on track[quoted image]

These are really, really strange times. I just upvoted WolfeMaaan.

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#8004 4 years ago

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They cancelled with the single goal of keeping this thread consistent.

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#8019 4 years ago

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This is why Gary has cost cut so terribly. He knew the pinball bubble wouldn't last forever. I doubt it's dead, but we're going to be hitting one hell of a slow down.

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#8068 4 years ago

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Deeproot will still pull it off. They will release games that will be great. Unfortunately, sales will be slower than expected, but most product-based businesses are going to experience that. I wish them the best during this tough time and very unfortunate bad luck for them. I wish they would at least release RAZA via stream. I think they'd be surprized at how many pinheads would still buy.

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#8085 4 years ago

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Quoted from flynnibus:
Because of octo-manufacturing?
or their non-existent manufacturing history?
I'm wondering why you think they are any better suited than a guy with a paper, pencil, and an empty building.

But why is the assumption that it's the opposite any better? How do you know they can't manufacture anything? Does anyone have concrete evidence as to where they are at financially and with manufacturing?

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#8169 4 years ago

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Maybe they left or got laid off because of some pandemic or something.

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#8359 4 years ago

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Quoted from iceman44:
You already on the puff Odin?

Off The Puff (resized).png

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#8428 3 years ago

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Good news is Deeproot has been paying out for a long time. They are used to this problem. A downsize for the virus will cut some cost and they'll be back when it's done. Raza will be better than expected, and the other games will kick ass.

War Deeproot!
War Jpop designs!

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#8432 3 years ago

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Quoted from Frax:
Well, for one thing, it would shut people like me up, that just want to see if they're even PLANNING anything that I'd want to throw money down on... And they've had like...um...three years...? This isn't a coronavirus issue. It's a poor business management issue. They don't have anything to show, that's why there was no announcement. Almost guaranteed that the TPF announcement was ONLY going to cover RAZA and dick-all-else, and they've not even tried to make it seem otherwise.
I'm still looking forward to playing Hot Wheels, as I know at least one of my local places already had purchased one. If excitement has died down...it's because nobody's been able to play the damn thing, which has very little to do with AP's business decisions. That's a pretty big difference to me. I expect that AP, if they walk out the other side of this, will have games to ship and projects in development. Can't really say the same for DR.

You have no idea what they were going to reveal, and the problem with the reveal was 100% the virus.

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#8444 3 years ago

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Ask how sales on Hot Wheels are going. I would imagine they are dismal at best. Revealing a pin right now online is dumb idea for any company. To put this in the "deeproot is failing" pile just isn't fair.

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#8475 3 years ago

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A good chunk of companies are going to receive support from governments bases on government imposed shutdowns. These guys will get support, and the USD petro/China-backed currency can take it. 2008 taught us that. JJP will be fine. Deeproot can maybe claim some startup debt scenario. Hell, they're giving corps that had record profits cash. Uncle Sam will bring that ol' socialism demon into the mix.

Or... Deeproot dies and Jack gives us another family friendly pinball machine that we don't want. There... I said it. I'm not a Jack nut-hugger.

Jeez. I've been driking.

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#8802 3 years ago

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I still have hope. They were just about to launch and the worst pandemic in over 100 years happened. Strange you guys can't give them any sort of understanding, even when the world shuts down.

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#8831 3 years ago

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Lol, Alice is pre-pubescent...

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#8835 3 years ago

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Quoted from CrazyLevi:
Yeah I don’t think that rack is big enough. Stop kowtowing to political correctness!!!!

cb82f44732c8d9df8c048f67e739147b_400x400 (resized).jpeg

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#8924 3 years ago

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Games are coming. They will be wonderful.

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#9034 3 years ago

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Quoted from Drewscruis:
They fail to meet any deadline they have set. What makes this time so different?

They had a reveal planned with airline tickets, location bookings etc, but a worldwide pandemic hit. It was so bad that the entire world (excluding your neighborhood?) shut down. Corpses were stored in meat trucks, things were so bad. But the most shocking thing about this worldwide pandemic was that Deeproot had the audacity to use the event to stall their reveal. What jerks!

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#9096 3 years ago

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I'm excited. New jjp coming soon and Deeproot. I'm stoked for any alternative to the newest Stern.

Great days for pinball!

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#9225 3 years ago

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I love jpops designs and can't wait to see more. There are many pinheads like me that are happy to see more of his games come to fruition.

He'll have the help and expertise he needs to bring the magic to life, and debts are settled via Deeproot. It's a new era.

Couch critics be haters, and you'll be bitching no matter how good the games are.

The frog in my belly says " ribbit, games will be awesome!"

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#9234 3 years ago

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Quoted from wesman:
Just my view. Not interested in buying games by Stern till they place more into build quality, better lcd, more novel use of the playfield and mechs, etc. I feel like Ripley's felt more like a pin from the B/W's 90's era than anything they've done since, maybe excluding Ghostbusters.
It's great that pinball has survived thanks to them existing solo, but their brand of pinball has never really interested me to the point of owning.
Hopefully Deeproot pushes much farther in the ways I feel Stern has languished. If they don't, more cash in my pocket.

I generally agree. Uncle Gary has cost cut the company too far for my tastes. IMDNLE will be my last Stern. Value just isn't there for me anymore. Just think about SPP or LOTR. They would be ultra-super-duper-pooper-scooper LEs if they were made today. That era is gone for good, and it ain't a good thing. I really hope Deeproot knocks out of of the park so we get some healthy competition.

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#9261 3 years ago

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Quoted from iceman44:
That’s like saying I’d trade for Michael Jordan for a pizza and bag of chips
You won’t be jumping on anything pro related at that price until you are MUCH older Wes
Get into the real world of today

The real world of today is crazy awesome designs and bullshit quality from Stern. It's the sad truth. I would have been all over Kieth's newest LE and his last had my IMDNLE not been built like it was made in China. They may as well outsource. "Made in the USA" means nothing for Stern. Who knows, the Chinese might even do better....

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#9265 3 years ago

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Quoted from SLCpunk2113:
I can’t understand people who shit on Stern’s build quality. My Iron Maiden has made me $18,000 dollars on location. It’s had over 20k plays. Have I replaced coil stops? Sure. Have I done much else besides cleaning it. Nope. Y’all are a bunch of babies too scared to pull the glass.

Love the logic: mine has no issues, so all machines have no issues, and the owners know nothing about pinball repair.

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#9272 3 years ago

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Quoted from frolic:
Over/under on RAZA price versus avengers premium?

Interesting to think about that... I think they will price aggressive. Under is my vote.

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#9279 3 years ago

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Quoted from wesman:
Ooooh, you mean those "accessories" that most likely cost up to $1,000 EXTRA that should be INCLUDED with the LE's?
I've no blooming idea how Stern produces barely any differences between LE and Premium models, yet that numbered plaque drives people batty!
I feel the same way. I really feel like Elwin mixes fun and challenging shots, and the code on his two existing games have been so much fun, but for me location play always feel the best choice.

Agree. Sterns are better played on location. Value for dollar is in the Trainspotting toilet.

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#9313 3 years ago

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Ballsy claims yet again. Hope they are true!

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#9354 3 years ago

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Quoted from pinballaddicted:
Most people that complain about dimples do not buy new games..! Same as most people that buy games care very much about licence and themes. Hopefully Deeproot do not hammer themselves into the ground!

Interesting that you speak for most people. I buy new games and stopped buying Sterns because of quality. I care deeply about licenses and themes. I'm excited for the hammer test, the logo and jpop. I'm their target audience and I have cash to burn.

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#9382 3 years ago

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Quoted from Sinistarrett:
Ill take living up here over south Florida any day of the week, thanks. You do know 99 percent of those “Florida Man” stories originate down there.

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#9501 3 years ago

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Omg. I'm super excited. Might have to make some room!

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#9523 3 years ago

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Quoted from DS_Nadine:
That might be a bit early.
It'll be different. Some may like that, some don't but I'm excited that we'll get something else then the "same old, same old".
(Not saying "same old" is bad. Raza will never shoot as cool as AVIQ; but you know a Stern when you see a Stern. Looking forward to a bit of fresh air.)

I don't see it this way. I love Jpops games, and the proto looked good to me. TOTAN's modes are kinda lame, but the playfield design makes up for it tenfold. This game will have great design, great art, quality and some new innovation. I also see the software being way better than jpops 90s games. I'd rather be in on this than another stupid Avengers game. I love Keith's design's, but I'm looking for something new. The game will be better than the proto. Levi will still find something to bitch about, but he'd bitch about anything they put out at this point.

I do have an issue to share though. I tried to email them using the distro email to inquire about purchase, and this is what bounced back:

deeprootemail (resized).jpg

Not so encouraging.

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#9555 3 years ago

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They have already had a release, but it was destroyed by Covid. They showed a prototype and had a reveal ready to go. But keep posting the same old, same old: Robert is full of shit, all promises, no action etc etc etc blah, blah.

They are revealing the final game after Covid recovery. Good for them!

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#9562 3 years ago

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Quoted from adol75:
Ps : Robert and Jpop destroyed their reveal all by themselves, this time that poor virus had nothing to do with it

Huh?

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#10413 3 years ago

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Quoted from CrazyLevi:
man people just don't want to give up on this

Well, I have to throw in the towel. I have been postive for deeproot for quite some time, but this... this is just... There isn't a word for it. Maybe the Germans can help me out here: is there a Schadenfreude-type-word for this situation?

I have now lost all faith.

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#10437 3 years ago

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Quoted from NeilMcRae:I feel like the music from the littlest hobo should be playing right now.

"maybe tomorrow . . . "

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#10794 3 years ago

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If Robert's giant name remains on the backbox, I'm 100% out no matter what. I mean, I'm 96% out as it stands, but if Deeproot wants that four percent chance, they need to present a game that doesn't remind me of an inflated ego every time I walk up to it.

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#11734 3 years ago

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Who needs a backbox these days. Just the screen would be fine. Easier to transport. Put the saved money into mechs and quality.

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#11757 3 years ago

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Agree that a backbox serves a purpose in arcades, but surely there is an "innovative" way to make it less cumbersome...

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#12092 3 years ago

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Quoted from wrb1977:
Trying to text with one of those flip phones is as archaic as navigating menus with those awesome buttons on the inside of the coin door. The ridiculousness of those buttons will be realized once the Pinbar becomes standard.

I agree with most of what you're saying except the service buttons. How often do we need to go into the service zone? I've never thought, "Man, these buttons inside the coin door are sure a pain in the ass. They remind me of a flip phone." Actually, it is the opposite. They are pretty convenient.

Raza looks awesome to me except I can't get my head around the pinbar. Obviously we need to see it, but I just can't see this being very useful and I can't see it handling a spilled beer. Even if it does, will it still be functional when dirty? Can it handle abuse? What if some asshole decides to punch it while on route?

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#12305 3 years ago

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Now motorcycles.., I had a 1982 Yamaha 650 Maxim 4 cylinder. A man's machine if there ever was one.

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#12549 3 years ago

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I'm out on GnR, so I'm still interested in seeing Raza.. Especially the price. If they can do what JJP cannot seem to: create a better machine and match stern's pricing, I'm likely in. I'm excited for Jpop's designs. I can't believe that he's completely incompetent as his games have a similar feel.

If old testament has the burning of witches, fuck, I'm IN!!!

"She turned me into a newt!"

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#12553 3 years ago

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Quoted from djd9617:
Same here. Not being a huge GnR fan, RAZA actually does seem more appealing to me. However I honestly would probably only buy one second hand. Ya know, let the first owner work out the bugs/kinks first. I'm also hesitant about DR's note about putting ads in the machine. I don't want targeted ads, microtransactions, the ilk of youtube's ad videos before playing a game, etc. And their claimed "always connected" feature gives me the creeps.

Oh, if there is a single ad in the machine, the company should and will fail. I will tell every human I can that the company is garbage and I'll be telling the truth.

Where is this note you're referring to? I can drain this thread if it's true. Oh, the time I have wasted!

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#12578 3 years ago

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Quoted from Dr-pin:
After yesterdays reveal, this is very puzzling to me.
I wouldn´t contemplating going raza over gnr, even if i were deaf.
The games are seas and centuries apart.

But that's the thing, we haven't seen final gameplay or design for Raza, so you nor anyone else can be sure. Pinsiders, like all humans, have short memories. If the game rocks, there will be a lineup to buy.

GnR has not a single cool toy aside from maybe the Gibson Headstock. Watching the revised ramp on the Deeproot video made me more excited than the crazy lightshow and spinner disc on GnR. I'm all about gameplay, and I like the gameplay of Jpop's games. I just do. I love his ramps with strange, sometimes secret, exits etc. They are fresh air to most other designs. Even if he needs help, they are cool and they work!

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#12616 3 years ago

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Quoted from russdx:
Iv lost all my excitement with these count downs, they mean nothing these days.

Oh C'mon, you have to love that Nadine gets to do countdown after countdown. There should be a pinside badge of honour for such a role.

"Nadine? Oh, you mean the countdown pinsider." LOL

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#12618 3 years ago

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Quoted from iceman44:
Nothing has happened yet other than a breach of contract on DRs part
I sent an email asking for setting up my official factory tour per the Goodwill Agreement and Bob responded that I was “escalating it to a legal matter and to never contact him, his company or employees ever again”. Lol
And then I called his attorney the next day and explained how things were gonna go
Thin skinned Bob as usual overreacted
Now we will see what happens re the breach of contract claim
It’s such a pitiful situation I’m currently waiting to see how they remedy the breach
I just received my AIQLE and ordered the GNR CE so I’m in the don’t care camp right now
An NDA? What a joke that is

Did Robert really respond this way?? Is there some sort of context for him to behave this way?

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#12635 3 years ago

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Quoted from iceman44:
Have the email to prove it.
They thought I was being “snippy”
Well I really just wanted to get a response re the clause in the contract that allows us to go tour the facility and play the game
I was denied earlier in the year. Have those emails as well
As for context I’ve been nothing but supportive in my communication with them
The lawyer def heard what I had to say.
Bob took it the wrong way but I don’t really care.
I told the lawyer I might have a big pinball party at my house and invite whatever employees I felt like
Look I want them to succeed but it’s harder to root for them they act like that
If you want to make threats I’ll hit back 10x harder

That's crazy. Sucks as this company could have been good. When I hear shit like this, I want them to fail.

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#12716 3 years ago

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Quoted from underlord:
Sure! Ben Heck says it, you all listen.
When I say it I’m not Ben Heck.

Heck, you're not even a Ben!

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#12799 3 years ago

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So there was a countdown to a livestream of a wall? This is getting so pathetic, it's... Awesome! When does the next countdown start?

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#12843 3 years ago

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Quoted from CrazyLevi:
Yes, they fired the first shot in the stupidest pinball war in history.
If you are a Martian watching drooling idiots on earth hammer perfectly good pinball playfields what are you possibly thinking about humanity?

I like the war. I hate shit playfields. If said war changes said shit playfields into not shit playfields, humans will overcome global warming.

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#12930 3 years ago

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Quoted from Cheeks:
I know everyone in pinball hates the entire concept of DLC, but if done right, it could be really cool. Adding extra modes and such would be BS (the way Stern is handling recent toppers). WAY too slippery of a slope since it currently takes every manufacturer years to "finish" the code. When is the code "final" and when do you start charging for extra stuff that people feel should have been in from the beginning. This would be a shitshow.
However, if you could download entirely alternate rulesets as DLC, that would be awesome. Like in AIQ, you're fighting to keep Thanos from getting the stones. What if next year Stern came out with a DLC that changed all the rules and modes where now you play AS Thanos (and there was a setting to switch back and forth between games)? It's obvious this was not part of the original code, but would be a really cool addition that I would pay for.
For whatever people thing about Multimorphic (I love them) one of the cool things about their setup is you can buy software-only games that repurpose existing playfields in completely different ways. If the regular manufacturers instituted DLC in this way I'd be 100% for it.
Is that what I think deeproot means by costs associated with future modes? I highly doubt it. Probably more along the lines of jpop's Magic Girl is broken as shit, but you can pay to add the features that should have been there from the start.

wrong (resized).jpg

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#12939 3 years ago

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Quoted from benheck:
I pitched this to Spooky for TV license games. You'd sell DLC for modes based on seasons that aired after pin was released.
The gimmick was it'd be tied to toys. Some blank spots on PF with a connector, you buy the Toy + DLC for like $300 and plug it in. Toy has a crypto unlock for the content because guess what you've already downloaded it haha! Basically a toy as software dongle.
Charlie HATED the idea. But this is pinball. Logic doesn't apply. Stern could charge $1k for this gimmick with Walking Dead: The Complete Saga and people would break their wrists whipping out the wallet.

I would NEVER buy a game with DLC incorporated, even if it was Keith Elwin working for JJP. Just like I won't buy a Stern game with a mono target, even if Keith designed it. There's nothing broken about buying a complete game when you put the cash down. We tolerate code updates, but Stern pushed the limit on that one... If that's the way the industry goes, I'll enjoy everything made up to that point. Thank god there are enough games for a lifetime.

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#12941 3 years ago

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Quoted from CrazyLevi:
Never say never bro!
Lots of people here said they’d never pay $10 k for a game either, and they are lining up to buy em as a consolation prize cause they got “burned” out of
The $13k version!

True. Just speaking for myself. I wanted jp2 sooo bad, but it had a mono target. I had self control and voted with my wallet. I'll do the same for DLC.

Your point about price might be apples to oranges as well. I paid 12.5k(canadian pesos) for DILE, but I would never have paid 10k if it had DLC. I'd rather pay more money for a complete game than less money and have to worry about purchasing more shit.

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#12946 3 years ago

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Quoted from yancy:
At first I was like, "no it doesn't," but I guess you mean the raptor gate? Lol, what a hill to die on. Glad I didn't deprive myself of owning & playing maybe the greatest pin of all time because a standup target is two targets wide. Actually looks better mono, gives the impression of like, an actual gate. "World under glass" as the zealots say.
You could always get a pro and drink yourself to sleep every night to forget you're missing the gate.

Our I could just be happy to disagree with you

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#13117 3 years ago

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Quoted from benheck:
Thunder and Wamoc are right. "Ponzi scheme" is a specific type of scam, you can't just apply that label to everything.
I'd go with "Pig in a Poke". It dates back to medieval times, the scammer would say "inside this bag (poke) is a delicious young pig!" The victim buys it to discover it's a worthless stray cat ("cat is out of the bag" = scam exposed)
"This game is REAL!" says John to AP, as he pulls the curtain off his Houdini diorama. They ooo and ahhh, it's so pretty it must be real!
Joe Balcer rolls up "Ehhh, guys, I hate to tell you this, but, yeah that game's just a stray cat!"
(wash rinse repeat with RAZA and DR)

joe (resized).png

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#13315 3 years ago

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Multiball looks pretty cool. Ramp looks great. Love the animations. Music is good. The moving targets look fun. I have no idea why it has a cyclone ferris wheel. That was cool in 1981, but it's weak as shit by today's standards.

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#13364 3 years ago

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Quoted from jonesjb:
Two gameplay concerns:
-It looks like the ramp isn't makable from the right flipper due to the geometry. Did anyone see a successful ramp shot from the right flipper?
-It looks to be a very defensive game with a couple of close brick shots (such as the rubber on right side of the ramp.

Very big concern. First thing I look for are backhands. If they're not there, the game is considered cursed and unplayable. Someone burn that game before the pope realizes that there is no backhand for the ramp. Jpop's done it again, that rascal!

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#13365 3 years ago

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Quoted from nwpinball:
You know though that a lot of people are going to love those nods to those games, which are still all pretty popular and we love nostalgia in pinball. We love when a Williams cow appears in games, we love a new Black Knight with callbacks to the games before it, we love revamped versions of MM, AFM and MB, we are always clamoring for mods and updates to old games or new games in a series. I personally dig that stuff, I dunno about the rest of you.

Nods to the past are great, but Cyclone's ferris wheel became boring after 10 times back in the 80s. They could have at least recycled something fun...

Quoted from chuckwurt:
Yes lots of times.

Yeah, the ramp went from a turd to a pretty strong point. It diverts nicely, and the bail is pretty nice too. I didn't watch a ton, so maybe there are even more exits, Jpop style? The game looks way better than what I expected, and that pic of the lit up wrap-around is stunning. The movie credits on the tranz are cringy. I also know I'll hate that damned ferris wheel - last comment about it. I promise

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#13396 3 years ago

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Quoted from toyotaboy:
I'll add one more comment about redundancy. There's clearly a "PLAY" button on the pinbar to shoot the ball (because there's an auto-launcher), yet there's a shooter rod (which is typically kept for skill shots) but there doesn't seem to BE a skillshot. The ball loops over and dumps right into the playfield, so what's the point of having a shooter rod? They were so adamant about removing the start button, why not keep it clean and also not have a shooter rod.

Need a deep dive to answer that question.

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#13482 3 years ago

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Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Interesting tidbits from what appears to have been deeproot's staging website:
Terms of Use (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:YnlaO68zaIsJ:https://drpb.turnerlogic.com/about/legal)
rootAccessTM Purchases (“Subscription Plan” on or after January 1, 2021)
Our subscription program rootAccessTM offers limited and exclusive content and access to deeproot insider information and downloadable content (“DLC”). The subscription price will be $49.99 if paid monthly, or $549 if paid annually in advance, with a one (1) year minimum subscription period. We plan for rootAccessTM to start in the first quarter of 2021. More information and details will be forthcoming around these benefits for an active membership:
Free Enhanced Support
$100 Flat fee US mainland shipping on all pinball purchases
Buy 5 games, get $2,500 in Store Credit
Exclusive deeproot Swag annually
Advance ordering of new game titles
Skip-the-line priority shipments
DLC and Updates released during active membership
Machines (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GsaEmPvAp6oJ:https://drpb.turnerlogic.com/shop/machines)
Shipping Priority
US customers Xtra™ Full Payment / Est. Oct-Nov 2020
US customers Xtra™ Deposit Only / Est. Nov 2020
International customers Xtra™ Full Payment / Est. Nov 2020
US customers Xe, Ae Full Payment / Est. Nov 2020-Dec 2020
US customers Xe, Ae Deposit Only / Est. Dec 2020-Jan 2021
Rest of International customers / Est. Dec 2020- Jan 2021
Contact (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:n0PVJzuUXIsJ:https://drpb.turnerlogic.com/contact/media)
Licensing
Germaine @ Playlife Co. (https://www.playlifeco.com/about)
Passion (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kAO3lyN5kvwJ:https://drpb.turnerlogic.com/about/passion)
"The paramount reason I came onboard deeproot Pinball was to help build a world-class game company, pushing the envelope in styling, game art and design, while innovating the underlying technology that makes play fun for everyone.
- John Popadiuk
Story (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:P_AueyoIvvgJ:https://drpb.turnerlogic.com/about/story)
Why Pinball?
I was never into pinball growing up.
****
Pinball is complex, but not hard.
*****
After having our launch day dashed in March of 2019 (our fault) and March of 2020 (pandemic), we finally launched on September 21, 2020 with a reality-style factory tour production with some amazing pinball personalities.
****
However, we couldn’t get very far when the only standard was ‘What would Robert want’? In time, we had to create much more realistic and measurable standards that refined and focused our sights on the final deliverables. Some of these include that our machine should be designed for a 100lb user that weighed a fraction of the pinball machine, who couldn’t ‘operate a remote’, and had little to no knowledge of pinball.
****
For our electrical system, we chose to go a solderless route (even though more expensive) to simplify assembly and consumer maintenance
Distributors (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mdb-z_85yOUJ:https://drpb.turnerlogic.com/contact/distributor)
Prior to December 1, 2020, deeproot’s policy for U.S. distributors is as follows. A distributor may provide one of its customers with a specially formatted URL or code that the customer must use to purchase a RAZA pinball machine in our online shop. No special favors or rights will accompany these sales. We prefer that games be shipped directly to the customer and not the distributor. The US distributor will be compensated with a commission on the sale, to be paid to distributor according to company policies, no later than five days following full payment by customer.
*****
After December 1, 2020, a U.S. distributor (i.e. Domestic) meeting the below criteria, approved by deeproot Pinball, and who executes a distribution agreement, may assist a customer in the sale or limited service of a deeproot purchase. Domestic distribution rights of our products require the following four criteria to qualify:
A registered legal entity, full time staff, with a defined geographical territory
Prior pinball sales experience
History of marketing, along with a marketing budget
A minimum commitment of 50 sales per contract year

There's probably a few dumb assess on here that still like to burn money, but if they're really doing this, ouch. Way to kill any chance of success.... I really wanted to buy this game to support them, even after Robert's bs and the shitty Ferris wheel, but if they go this route, not a chance.

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#13586 3 years ago

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DLC won't work with the pin crowd. Just watch. Look at the themes: these are old guys with cash that have learned to save and not sign up for shit that bleeds money from their account. The rich guys will buy anything, but it's the more common buyer that keeps these companies going. Not all companies will do it, and buyers will flock to those companies.

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#13624 3 years ago

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Quoted from iceman44:
Exactly. And that is the #1 criteria i look for when investing in a company, "recurring revenue streams" with a growing ecosystem.
That's what makes Tesla another excellent 10 yr investment, even from here, it's NOT the widget cars they are selling.
And pinball is going end up on this same track, it's inevitable. Don't shoot the messenger here. Not saying anyone has to like it.
Just look at these $1,000 toppers that people gobble up like hotcakes and the huge amounts of money that people spend to mod their pins.
Yep, it's coming.......

I think it will be dead opposite. Some, like deeproot, maybe jjp, will try it and find out that it's only the topper guys that will pay. Stern, who loves cost cutting more than anything else, will be laughing to the bank. They will keep siimple, low BOM games with awesome designs, great code and cheap components on the production line. Why worry about all the digital infrastructure you have to create to go the DLC route? These are machines meant for routing, collecting and trading. A digital ecosystem does not match up well with the product. No one wants it, and I do think pinheads will reject it. The price point for pins is different than video games or video game systems. Plus there are thousands of used machines to keep most happy for a lifetime.

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#13655 3 years ago

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Quoted from NoQuarters:
I'd give 5 upvotes on this post if I could. Read the whole post again.

Get outa here, the whole thing?

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#13747 3 years ago

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Quoted from benheck:
The thing that's really gonna kill deeproot is lack of licensed titles. Goonies alone isn't going to carry the weight of 5 other games nobody wants.
They're clearly obsessed with the long-gone era of 90s B/W (again because John is the secret boss) but forget crucial things like how it was the early 90s licensed themes that sold huge while the original themes later on did far less business.
They're looking at it through the lense of history "after 20 years it was TOM, TOTAN, CV, MM, AFM, MB everyone loved best" but they're a company in the PRESENT. They can't wait 20 years for Food Truck to become a cult classic they need something they can sell NOW.

I think unlicensed themes could do very well, but they aren't done very well these days. I actually prefer them.

DI is mom jeans, but ppl are coming around to it. Bk3 is barren. Octoberfest has design issues as does Houdini. Raza has early SS mechs.

If they load the damned thing and made it cool, it could sell. But maybe you're right. Maybe it's too tough to pull it all together.

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#14354 3 years ago

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Food truck will be fine if it shoots well. Everyone loves at least of few of the old system 11 games. Remember that Funhouse was unlicensed. No one is bitching about Heist. Why? It shoots well and has great ideas behind it.

The issue with RAZA (as Ben has pointed out repeatedly) is gameplay. It has almost exclusively recycled ideas and just doesn't seem to shoot that well for a modern game. I like the Dizzy Doozy though. It's better than JJP's effort at a spinner wheel.

If food truck shoots well, has good theme integration with some humour, I'd likely buy one. The Bowden gameplay vid makes the pinbar looks pretty damn cool. Spending money in the shop doesn't seem to be the annoying stop-and-go like I thought it would be. Plus with foodtruck, you don't have to take the manufacturing risk. The suckers who bought Raza already did that for you.

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#14376 3 years ago

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Quoted from noitbe1:
I see a lot of criticisms on DR. It seems like since they revealed their first game, this is far worst than when they were a scam company which will never produce a game.
Ok, let’s be honest, even if RAZA does’nt sell that great, which is possible, I wonder if there will be a missed opportunity to aquire a great game, same as POTC, in couple of months or years because people will realize that this pin was great after all and lot of people will change their minds.
There are so many critisisms in here, than it will scare for sure a lot of potential buyers. Maybe they will surprise everyone, stay in place, manufacture all their games, start being really successfull after their second games... who knows.
At the end, the more choice the better but so many people want them to fail.... so be it.
I would never launch a pinball company myself... I mean never... when you see how you can be burnt in public, how difficult it is, all the bad feedbacks for small things... i mean you have to be either courageous or crazy....
Let’s give them that at least.
I just rewatched the Steve Gameplay video and I like RAZA more and more and I really think the design is great. I can’t afford a Raza now (i just bought a pin and the Tariff... but why not in the future)
At least this create a lot of drama in here!
Peace.
My 2 cents.

They've produced only prototypes after 8 years. You're giving credit where credit is not due. When the first game comes off the line, then they have produced a game.

It is interesting to speculate about the value of the machine if it does get produced and does become a hit down the road with only a handful out there. I also think that there's a ton of value in the game if it is made, but they are likely to learn the JJP lesson the same as JJP did: the hard way. You can't mass build a machine with this much 'tech and mech'© in it for the price they are selling it for and make a profit.

In the end, it is a gamble. If this was a stock I was considering purchasing, I'd run. The evidence is overwhelming that the risk is extremely high. It is beyond obvious. If intial buyers get burned, there will be zero ears available to listen to their complaints.

But Food Truck? If it's good, I'm in!

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#14391 3 years ago

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Quoted from Tomass:
Yes, that was me joking. Not saying they have made it yet, but people still think they are scamming or something. With all that has happened, I do believe they will get games shipped.

Who has said they are scamming? I think that's your word.

Most if not all of us are talking about incompetence. 8 years to get a game to show, then recall it, then show it again? Primary designer took people's money and didn't produce a game. No manufacturing line seen so far. Parts not ordered. CEO calls LEDs "leads. "How much evidence do you need showing that this could end badly? If it's only a deposit, you might get away with just losing that I suppose.

This is the gamble purchase (or deposit), and it is one I'm not willing to take.

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#14405 3 years ago

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Quoted from Tomass:
What do you call selling games and not making them? How many times have you seen the term vaporware in this thread?

I call it incompetence. No one is suggesting they are planning to rip anyone off. That doesn't mean it will end well.

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#14431 3 years ago

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Quoted from Tomass:
You sure about that? We must be reading different threads. Also not sure why you take this so personally. I didn't direct that at you.
I don't know how this plays out but all the haters just represent the worst of pinside and our society in general. I feel bad for the people who have to live with some of these folks.

Personally? What does this have to do with me? I couldn't care less. It's just that we do appear to be reading different threads. I see a thread full of men saying "Be careful here: we've seen all this before. They might not be able to pull this off." You see a thread full of men saying "Deeproot is systematically running a pinball racket to scam money. They have no intention of producing machines."

I've read the thread, and I'm simply arguing that your comprehension of the situation is incorrect.

It is.

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#14433 3 years ago

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Quoted from RCA1:
Waitress: Hey, who ordered all this food from the pinball machine?
Random Customer: I dunno, the guys playing pinball left 20 minutes ago.

Waitress: Well, they paid for it through the pinball machine. You guys hungry?
Random Pinheads: Fuck yeah!

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#14463 3 years ago

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Quoted from Tomass:
"I will apologize for upsetting you and setting you off. No hard feelings, man.

Trolls be trollin'. I got duped.

Doh!

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#14475 3 years ago

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Quoted from Makakka:
They still might buy this game but even if not:
RAZA is special its about abstract JPop magic. Either you feel it or you dont its art that divides and polarises. Its not about the business tricks zidware did to get (more) preorder money its about what you see in RAZA itself. Its not the best table mechanical and designwise but it contains the relam of imagination only JPop can create. There are a lot of members here who dont see it and therefore and only look at the pin with a cold eye probably these 6 also so its not for them and noone who does not see/feel the Jpop magic.
I first heard of the Jpop tryptichon 2017 on my reentry into pinball and was heartbroken it was only about lawsuits and no production. Then deeproot came and gave shelter to JPop bc Mueller did see his magic. My distro also sees his magic and ordered some arcades and extras.

I love jpops previous titles, but man, he's not some sort of God. Raza doesn't look that fun. It has little of the"magic" you speak of.

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#14565 3 years ago

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Quoted from wrb1977:
Update time...
Now that the dust has settled from my disappointments on the day orders opened for RAZA, I decided to reach out to deeproot because I could not help myself from still being excited about RAZA and to get some questions I had answered.
Shortly after filling out the form on deeproot’s contact page, I received a prompt, professional, and gracious reply. They were very thorough and answered each of my questions in a honest and transparent way. I never got the sense that they were over promising or trying to tell me what I wanted to hear to get a sale. We have since exchanged several emails and it has been a positive experience and I’m very appreciative of the time they spent answering my questions and clarifying things I didn’t quite understand. I am satisfied with their answers even though some of the answers were not what I was hoping to hear.
At this point I am reconsidering my position that I took on ordering day and I am once again seriously considering putting down a 10% deposit on an Arcade Edition. I still have a few things to consider before making a final decision.
If anyone is considering buying a RAZA and have any questions, I recommend contacting them using their online form as they have been very responsive and seem to know their product.

I also ordered this product on Amazon, and it is amazing. It perfectly performed the function that it was supposed to, even more than I expected. My friends wanted to buy it immediately, and I was sure to recommend. When I contacted customer service about the product, they answered my questions the day before I sent out my email and sent me a free unicorn, postage included.

I highly recommend you buy this product too. You won't be disappointed.

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#14599 3 years ago

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Quoted from Mercifull:
Magicians for example will often not patent their magic trick inventions to prevent anyone else from working it out or copying the act by slightly changing the method.

LOL. I found something I agree with in your post. They should be compared to magicians!

So, to be clear: Deeproot has a GIANT warehouse that is currently empty because they have their manufacturing set up in another GIANT warehouse because we all know that GIANT warehouses are cheap like borscht. Or maybe they made the elephant disappear?

And for the last time (hopefully): no one is claiming that they are scamming (a purposeful act). The claim is incompetence.

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#14644 3 years ago

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Quoted from pinballwil:
Yeah but that thing looks like a homebrew game.
Deeproot is more like wms.

Lol. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Do you mean like a system 11? That Ferris wheel is sooooo awesome!

The game lacks good gameplay, just like cosmic Carnival. The pinbar might help, but DLC, if mandatory, will kill that. Plus you might not even get a game.

It's a dumb risk, but like all dumb risks, it could pay off. If the game played better, I'd consider the dumb risk because I'd at least like playing it if I actually recieved it.

Like everything on pinside, it will be fun for me to laugh at you if you get burned and fun for you to gloat if you don't.

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#14645 3 years ago

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Quoted from BallPin:
I did! I never made another post about them. I'm just replying to people calling me a liar and assuming I'm a podcaster. I think that's fair.

Well, Chris, when you outright lie repeatedly, people call you a liar. When you treat people like they're stupid and you're the Almighty, they dislike you. You, of all people, know this best.

I do like your attempt at a change in tone. You might be a dick, but you're an entertaining dick!

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#14668 3 years ago

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Quoted from flynnibus:
Time cued for her pleasure...

WRB, please explain your downvote... I'm truly confused.

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#14672 3 years ago

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Quoted from wrb1977:
Have you played RAZA or did you form your opinion by watching the limited number of quality gameplay videos that exist?
DLC is optional and can be purchased individually without a subscription.
Agreed...there are no guarantees RAZA will ship.

I've watched many videos of new releases, formed an opinion, played the game and had my opinion confirmed. I can't think of a single game that I watched gameplay and then changed my mind for the better. Actually, I can only remember the opposite. To sum up my answer, YES, I am forming a strong opinion based on the limited quantity gameplay videos that exist.

Is there a chance RAZA will be more fun than it looks? Sure. I doubt it though. Nothing can make a Cyclone ferris wheel fun. Nothing. Also, the primary target zone of the PF is like the claustrophic Paul Stanley zone on Kiss, but Stern was smart enough to make it a less primary part of the game. The Dizzy Doozie is the only fun looking part of the game.

As for DLC (and unlike gameplay) you nor I have any idea what that will be. Optional how? What do you miss out on? How long will they continually add? These are mysteries that should make anyone uncomfortable with the product.

Good luck!

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#14740 3 years ago

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Quoted from wrb1977:
What I find fascinating (pathetic) are that people such as flynnibus who spent countless hours writing his 323 posts in a thread about a company he has no interest in supporting. That particular piece of work downvotes almost every post of mine...he’d even downvote a post where I offered to buy him a RAZA as a thank you for all his downvotes. Seriously, don’t some of you have anything better to do?
The time I’ve spent in this thread will hopefully pay off as I’ve always considered myself a potential deeproot customer and I’ve found value in this thread by gaining information from those who are actually interested in seeing a new pinball company succeed and push pinball forward. Thank you to those that have wrote well thought out, productive, and insightful posts whether just being positive and supportive or by offering legitimate constructive criticism!
-Wayne

Don't you have anything better to do than circle jerk?

The game may be great, and it may suck. They may ship and they may not. There are clear red flags that you clearly want to ignore. Fine. But you're going to hear them, like it or not.

If you want an echo chamber, go to your beloved pre order thread.

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#15191 3 years ago

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Quoted from kermit24:
You’ve been on Pinside for 9 years. You should know that owners threads are protected places. Plenty of other places to shit on deeproot.

If that's true, they should change the names of all owner's threads to "circle-jerk celebrating [insert machine]". I've criticized many things about games I own in owners threads. Just how protected are they? Please enlighten us.

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#15343 3 years ago

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Quoted from Mark1971:
Has anybody been notified of a ship date for RAZA yet?

The only official statement is that you can pass on the deposit to your children as part of your estate.

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#15725 3 years ago

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This could go a strange direction. They are going to put a ton of money into manufacturing this machine, so IF they get them out the door, it will be WOZ situation but way crazier. Those machines will, in fact, sell at a likely the deepest discount we've ever seen. So in the short term, they might actually be a winning gamble for the buyers. When DR realize that they can't bleed and more money to manufacture game #2, we'll see the Magic Girl effect take over. There will be no support or parts for the game, particularly the pinbar™, so the game value might tank . . . or not. Will the community react the same way again and again to the Magic Girl effect?

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#15805 3 years ago

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Quoted from TaTa:
But this time I feel differently and I have every right to feel that way. blaaahhhhh

Yep. You also have the right to disregard evidence elsewhere. You can "feel" that vaccines give people autism and "feel" that reptilians are running the White House. That's your right. I agree with you 100%.

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#15875 3 years ago

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Quoted from denoument:
What ever happened to the pinball lift accessory deeproot was going to unveil?
I came across this:
And remembered Deeproot...

"Hey, when lifting heavy shit, use your legs, not your back."

This guy: "Fuck that. I'll use my brain."

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#16532 3 years ago

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I TOOK A RISKY GAMBLE ON A MACHINE! I WANT TO DOUBLE DOWN AND GAMBLE ABOUT THAT MACHINE WITH YOU! GAMBLE WITH ME YOU FUCKING PUSSIES! GAMBLE WITH MEEEEE! I'M AT THE BANK MACHINE RIGHT NOW!!!!

drunk.gif

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#16980 3 years ago

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Quoted from wrb1977:
But, if anyone that was seriously considering preordering a RAZA would have simply reached out to them, they would have got any answers they were looking for instead of relying on the speculation, misinformation, and nonsense contained in this thread.

I was seriously considering a purchase and did reach out. This is what I recieved:

a583351626652f548c17c823077c736461deb8c3 (resized).jpg

Lady luck appears in strange ways...

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#17025 3 years ago

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Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
More like derprootpinball.com, am I right?

I clicked a "contact us" link.

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#17900 2 years ago

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Quoted from metallik:
They were all reasonably fun, but there's no intrigue, charm or mystery.
Best parts of CV are the art, music and rules, none of which John had much to do with. The playfield is clunky and needed numerous kits to fix ball hangups and other issues. TOTAN and TOM are ok players.. what exactly is so intriguing about them? Modes, 3ball multiball, quick MB, just like all the other 90s WMS titles. If 'intriguing' is having a female voice constantly gushing over how great the player is, count me out.
I enjoyed WCS94 the longest; had it for over 10 years. It was a solid player and just a fun game. It was also his first one. All downhill from there... Ep1 is just a trainwreck.
I'm pretty curious how RAZA will be simply considering it's been 22 years since his last game.

I agree that John is a terrible businessman, but TOTAN's ramp is nothing short of amazing. The lamp is a great toy. There overall experience is mesmerizing.

If the game is set up extra hard and the rules are jacked up to maximin difficulty, the game is a long term/forever keeper. It's his best pin hands down.

TOM has lots of cool innovation as well, but too easy regardless of setup. For games built specifically for location, they are crazy good.

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#18743 2 years ago

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Quoted from rai:
Post of the year!

13 wrestling gifs? I'd say epic fail post of RM proportions.

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#18751 2 years ago

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Quoted from swillie:
[quoted image]

Lol

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#18977 2 years ago

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Dialed in didn't sell that poorly. I was vocal about wanting non licensed themes, and once I heard it was Pat doing one, I walked the walk and bought one, first run.

The issue was that Pat was controlled by Jack's family-friendly presentation rules. This made "Killer App" turn into mom jeans Dialed in.

I still believe a well integrated and designed non licensed theme could sell really well. I wanted to buy Raza, but the gameplay honestly looks flat to me. If they actually do produce it (doubtful) and I find it plays better than it appears to, I'd buy it.

The generic space theme (maybe terraforming Mars?) Would be awesome. There are so many other good untapped examples.

I know I'm in the minority though, and another rehash of some half-baked Lucasfilm dead horse will sell better. *Sigh*

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#18979 2 years ago

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Quoted from TreyBo69:
I thought I heard Pat Lawlor liked family friendly themes. I’ve heard he haaaated doing the Family Guy pin because the vulgarity wasn’t good for location play in his opinion.

The dialed in print manual shows his prototype title and different art. It was killer app, which makes way more sense with the theme and callouts.

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#19017 2 years ago

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Quoted from Chetrico:
Seriously, a great movie. But yeah, that poster makes it look terrible.

I'll have to take your word for it.

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#19020 2 years ago

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Quoted from Bublehead:
Here's a nice, Pinside friendly, non licensed theme we can all get behind... it involves trucks but not of the food variety.
I give you- Fed-Up... a package delivery nightmare.
The backglass is a row of three racing delivery trucks, FedEx, UPS, and a simple delivery van with "Hometown Delivery", all with comic character delivery drivers hanging out their windows, screaming at our hometown hero (the player) in his rickety old delivery van. The artwork of the trucks overlap, obscuring the "EX" and "S" leaving the title, Fed UP, and the theme is based on picking up and delivering packages... the more you pick up and deliver, the higher your bonus, plus all kinds of multipliers, boost scoring, etc... So the playfield is a cityscape under glass, with all kinds of places represented for pick ups and drop offs... Timed hurryups as a call comes in to pick up, if you miss the hurryup, a competitor gets the package. All kinds of combos and hurryups driven by lit arrow shots are needed to complete delivery. You could pile on all kinds of modes, wizard modes, comedy modes, to flesh it out. Mark Ritchie would have a blast with this... sort of like Fish Tales, but a comic take on peoples dislike of delivery services in general, and as the quirky character of our hometown delivery driver, you get to put a thumb in the eye to the big guys... throw in a Blue Amazon Prime van in the backglass as a distant 4th place along with DHL in 5th...
So a great title for Pinball operators, it would likely have been a good earner back in the day, but sadly no one would want to que up to buy it for HUO... But hey, you never know what will connect with the HUO market unless it is another super hero/action figure laden, franchised, nostalgic Dad rock, or Disney asset licensed retread.

If it was designed well, I think there'd be a lineup of home owners ordering and waiting for their delivery. Great idea!

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#19086 2 years ago

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Quoted from vdojaq:
Please , by all means, provide us with those sales numbers.
Dialed in sold so shitty that they have considered a retheme for it. Doesn't mean it will happen, but it was on the table.

By all means, please provide proof that jjp considered a retheme. I call bullshit.

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#19927 2 years ago

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Anita Goodman is funny as hell...

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#19975 2 years ago

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Quoted from PismoArcade:
I could be wrong, but I'm guessing the downvotes are for injecting politics into the thread?
Personally, I enjoy Pinside as a much needed respite from all things political.

But do you like beer? Cause I like beer. Do you? I like beer...

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#20177 2 years ago

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PG.

1500x800-404EInstellungen-1 (resized).png

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#21105 2 years ago

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Quoted from pinstyle:
Can you imagine ordering a game and waiting over ten years to get it? Wow…..

Can you imagine being warned repeatedly by scammed pinheads and insiders to avoid ordering a machine at all costs and still ordering it?

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#21293 2 years ago

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I hope they can stay alive for another year or more because this is my favorite thread. I feel like we've been through so much together, us deeproot thread guys. We're like a band of brothers.

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#21550 2 years ago

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We can always follow Robert to his next endeavor.
He'll be entertaining with or without pinball.

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#21929 2 years ago

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My collie Sadie. Smart as a whip.

BellyScratch (resized).png

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#22097 2 years ago

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Ballsy if Cary to divulge that info, especially naming someone and disclosing their order information. Robert loves to swing his deformed legal dick all over the place.

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#22637 2 years ago

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Quoted from greatwichjohn:
Raza builds are possible. Just need to contract it out & get it done if Deeproot continues to drop the ball. Same with more Magic Girl & other games they were working on. You either step up & get a production line going with staff, or get someone to get it done. If this ends up being a total failure, Robert can look forward to others making real pinball machines. Explain that one to your investors how new players can get it done without multi millions down the drain! Like I have said he needs to figure this out now, move forward, or get out.
I continue to state a very small group could of had all the Raza pins built over the last 8+ months. Even the staff that was there before mid July. But we do not know what is really going on with Deeproot. They continue to show no pictures of parts or production. Must be the only one in Pinball History to show NOTHING! All talk & nothing in mass to show except a few prototypes. Wish they would get a real PR person to explain all of this.

Yes, please avoid being circumlocutious with your writing...

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#23179 2 years ago

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Deeproot.jpg

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#23202 2 years ago

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Quoted from flynnibus:
The Morman label has all kinds of stigmas/stereotypes (not saying they are justified - just the associations are out there)

This proves the point.

Scandell is correct here. If Ben would have 'outed' someone (insinuating negativity) as having beliefs related to other religions, the conversation would be much different. I've seen The Book of Mormon on Broadway. Funny as hell. I just wish they made it about missionaries in general as the early colonial missionaries from all of the 'acceptable' religions were waaay worse.

Joking about anything is fine, but I do think writers should keep it generalized, like these guys did:

python (resized).jpg

I'm an atheist, for the record.

This post was moderated 2 years ago: Discussing Prohibited Topics (politics, religion ...)

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#23233 2 years ago

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soooo.... how much is the RAZA with the pinbar going to be worth? Any guesses?

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#23242 2 years ago

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Quoted from thechakapakuni:
So the only thing that’s strange is generally charges like this involve an arrest. Was Robert arrested? The complaint appears to be a criminal complaint vs a civil one

They will need to investigate all the claims against him. It looks like charges will come. It will take forever.

LONG LIVE THE DEEPROOT THREAD!

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#23252 2 years ago

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sloth.jpg

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#23255 2 years ago

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Quoted from Mr68:
Just made this my screensaver.
[quoted image]

It would make a great shirt for shows. Only the mutants on here would know what the hell it means.

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#23260 2 years ago

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Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
I'm surprised so many people think the pinball part was a scam from day one, because it doesn't feel that way to me. Some thoughts:
- For most of the time, the pinball operations appear to have been a money sink rather than money generator for RM. First, he didn't need the pinball businesses to scam money. He already had a bunch of others that were working just fine for that, and the charging document asserts that Robert and Mrs. Robert were using various company cards for their spending sprees several years back (ps, why isn't Mrs. Robert also charged?).
- We know that Robert employed literally scores of pinball people for years. This is not pretend. I have dozens and dozens of their linkedins. Plus, he rented that massive, expensive building in Texas, and the studio in Utah. Why do all of that if the goal is just to scam? You could cut those expenses down to a tenth and still get just as many pre-orders for your crappy machine. That would leave more money for Mr. Mueller to play with or keep the bottom from dropping out longer so he could keep the real scam going. It seems the millions wasted on pinball were a major unraveling of the bigger scheme. We Robert sometimes didn't pay people. But we know oftentimes, he did.
- I think playing pinball CEO with other people's money was another form of personal enrichment for Robert, different from dental work, divorces, and Hawaii condos. He didn't have to do all this crap. He wanted to and reveled in it. Plus, since Robert knows he's a super genius who's amazing at everything, he probably thought the pin biz would make him even richer when Deeproot trounced all the dumbass other companies that are stupid and don't know have the vision to make be smart and awesome like deeproot was going to be.
- For the majority of their existences, Deeproot pinball and deeproot studios brought in next to no money. And, again, if he needed to expense fake things, he already had a bunch of extant companies for which he could (and apparently did) do that.
- Now, there is one known way in which Deeproot Tech and Deeproot Pinball actually did bring in millions: PPP loans. Four big ones. And it's illegal for that money to not primarily go to staff salary to prevent layoffs. Is that where the money went? Could be! Could also not be. And if it's not, that's certainly more than a drop in the bucket. And it will also add a new host of problems bigger than UL certification for Bobby Big Balls
(PS PSA: Don't forget former and current deeproot employees, or anyone with inside knowledge of PPP funds malfeasance: You can submit a fraud complaint at https://sbax.sba.gov/oigcss/).

I generally agree. I think he might have been dumb enough to believe that he could pay back his fund with profits from pinball. He could have stolen money for years without the pinball operation.

He's just a piss-poor decision maker. I'm sure his wives would agree.

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#23267 2 years ago

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Quoted from pipes:
I don’t post here anymore but felt it was necessary this one time just to tell you what a piece of shit you are. Have at it moderators.

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#23350 2 years ago

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Quoted from iceman44:
we knew where it was coming from and not Robert himself.
I will be calling Jason McKinnie on Monday

Quoted from Inside:
Interesting note, Jason E McKinnie is the deeproot lawyer.

Is Iceman really Robert lol?

mind.gif

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#23495 2 years ago

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Quoted from greatwichjohn:
Just because Deeproot seems to be done for the final count as a pinball company. It does not mean any of these JPOP games or other titles done there will not see the light of day in the future. We will have to see who buys what is left & what they want to do with the assets. Could be they do nothing, could produce under license if allowed, or could just retheme stuff.
Pinball production is NOT EASY, but it is not impossible. Almost all real pinball manufacturers contract out parts production, & just do final builds. The other part is design & code usually done in house. But even that can be contracted out.
It is a free world towards speech but there are some (many) vocal people thinking they know it all here. See what more abuse I get here again. Even a small dedicated group with proper management, skilled staff, & resources can get games built. If you are a dreamer or have no game plan you are likely to fail.
Everyone has high hopes for Spooky, Haggis, P3, Dutch Pinball, Heighway, & even Homepin to advance in this tough pinball market with the big players. But time will tell in the future who continues on, & who might come to a end.

My god, man. THERE IS NOTHING TO BUY.

ROBERT STOLE . . . E V E R Y T H N G!!!!!!!!!!

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#24007 2 years ago

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Quoted from greatwichjohn:
Thanks Ben for getting my name right with Kaneda. You could of just dodged the question, after the earlier comment about me being the fool. I will not be contacting JPOP in the near future. I am still working with multiple groups that want to produce Real Pinball Machines. Still lots of room for small groups to enter the market, & offer more choices.
I do not think you know who they are which is fine, & maybe you know others doing the same. There is no reason for me to go on about Deeproot being dead. & speculating any possibilities. We will see who picks up what when it comes up for sale. Likely more value on the video studio stuff, but some of the pinball info might be of interest to some people. Maybe they would get pleasure from burning what they buy to the ground, or just want a piece of pinball history (good, bad, or ugly) their choice!

You are so . . . WEIRD!

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#24689 2 years ago

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Quoted from greatwichjohn:
Got your pin working tonight.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Pinball/CirqusVoltaire
JPOP can have a bad rap, but he is known in the industry & inducted along with others. Another reason many companies continue to hire him. Deeproot was the latest. & unlikely the last.
I enjoy his games except for Star Wars Episode 1. The haters here probably blame him for WMS getting out of the pin & into the slot business.

EVERYONE. PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, STOP FEEDING THE GREATWICH TROLL!

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#24815 2 years ago

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Quoted from Darscot:
Ha ha people think I’m a broken record. I have no idea why you are so infatuated with me.

Lol. I would have expected your "triggered" comment. The variety is appreciated.

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#25142 2 years ago

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Quoted from FalconPunch:
You actually make my gut turn circles when I read your posts.
How does someone like you exist. I feel like you have already made a deal with the devil and you are here trying to convince yourself it was a good choice.
If you are trolling it's not funny.
If you are serious get your head checked by someone please.

If your post was written differently, the outcome would have been different. If you truly tried to like his posts, there's still a chance you would like them. I have experience in helping people like posts like his, and I know of others secretly doing so as well. Maybe someday I'll be able to tell their story.

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#25266 2 years ago

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See, ice does have a heart.

Screenshot_20210831-214849_Free Adblocker Browser (resized).jpg

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#25503 2 years ago

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I like South Korea cause there real smart.

PISA-rankings-within-OECD-001 (resized).jpg

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#25505 2 years ago

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Quoted from benheck:
Ice no matter how much you brag about your wealth end of the day you fell for the same scam TWICE.
Maybe be a man and deal with it internally instead of taking it out on me? Your dumb bully tactic is embarrassingly obvious. How old are you, 14?

If there ever was a good reason to post the Michael Jackson popcorn pic ...

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#25546 2 years ago

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Quoted from cpr9999:
Judgement will be up to our creator.

Wasn't it some future Ben Heck pinball machine that would decide our fate? Ben, GIVE US A SIGN!

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#25563 2 years ago

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Quoted from PinMonk:
Don't be too sure. These are drawings SK children made about Japan (taken at a school display). Plenty of indoctrination happening here.
There's some funny stuff in there (Japan as an island of poo, Japan flag TP on fire) but mostly it's just sad.
[quoted image]

You do know about the occupation, right? The details?

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#25608 2 years ago

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Quoted from greatwichjohn:
many things could of been different with the right people. Not Robert being a dictator & a criminal. Like I have said no production was done. If JPOP & his games were finished & produced way back at the start. Maybe Deeproot Pinball would have survived, but not with all the bullshit lies Robert said & did over the years. The stupid Video division was the big money drain with all the employees. Big offices were another big drain, & add on the pinball staff who you need for a pinball company.

So, hell would be great if Satan wasn't Satan.... Gotcha

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#25686 2 years ago

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Quoted from greatwichjohn:
Unfortunately my English grammar will not improve. Also there are slight difference being a Canadian, & the region I live in. You can focus on me, but there are many differences in regions of the United States of America.

I think your content is truly amazing, better than anything coming out of any country or region.

I was wondering how you could respond in a ridiculous way to the grammar criticisms. I was like, gotcha, Greatwich! How are you going to mess this one up? Well, your reply is straight out of the Twilight Zone yet again.

Please keep them coming!

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#25703 2 years ago

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Quoted from BMore-Pinball:Deleted post

Finding a convenient still from film is a far cry from 24/7 crazy eyes.

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#25736 2 years ago

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Quoted from benheck:
IMO "literally" is still the most mis-used word in the English language.
It actually takes thought to use it correctly which is what makes it infuriating. Now it's become a profanity, a modifier, the modern-day "like" (even though "like" was always being used correctly, just in excess)

Oxford has updated it's definition of literally to include exaggeration. "I literally post on Pinside every minute."

Hurts the ears of purists, but languages have always been protean.

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#25825 2 years ago

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Quoted from chuckwurt:
5 years max.

But will the current wife wait?

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#25894 2 years ago

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C'mon Robert, go to jail or something. This thread is becoming a bore...

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#25896 2 years ago

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Quoted from greatwichjohn:
Likely the next thing would be JPOP. Maybe he walks free from his days in court. Maybe he gets a lawyer to get him off. He must of got a decent salary along with others there. Still really quiet about what the pinball staff had in the works all these years, & what happened with anything there. Maybe some stuff went into storage units.

Maybe....

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#25962 2 years ago

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I love that he spent his big money on multiple wives.

What

A

Fucking

LOSER

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#25981 2 years ago

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Quoted from toyotaboy:
tempting[quoted image]

Maybe Robert is finally out of money and cannot sue them for using his logo.

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#25994 2 years ago

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Quoted from TreyBo69:
Also while talking about cats in a thread about overdesigned luxury items, I love this automatic litter box: https://www.litter-robot.com/
I've had an automatic litter box before, but it was junk that would get clogged up every other day. This thing has worked like a champ the past two years
Between it and the automatic feeder, my wife and I can leave the cats to fend for themselves for a week while we visit family.

+1 on the litter robot. The app for it is awesome. No more smelly cat shit!

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#26106 2 years ago

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Quoted from TreyBo69:
According to the one doc, Robert is having a kid next month. Mazel tov
Also his current child support is almost as much as his mortgage.
Dude is a piece of garbage asking for over 100k a year to keep living the upper middle class dream without deserving it, likely coming from what little his victims have left.

Hey, at l least he'll be skipping the diaper years.

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#26154 2 years ago

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Quoted from Inside:
No kidding.
From the latest filing today:

Whoa... I mean, I already knew most of that, but to hear it stated by the SEC this way is just . . . ENTERTAINING!

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#26595 2 years ago

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Maybe a nice souvenir picture frame? How much? Lol

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#26604 2 years ago

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If there ever is a serious list, mark me down for one. It will be the coolest picture frame on the planet. At least in my nerdy pinball world.

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#27263 2 years ago

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The only thing of value is the functioning prototype with the pinbar. Some collector will pay 35-50k at auction for that sucker. That's it. The lawyers will get the proceeds. GAME OVER.

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#27750 2 years ago

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Quoted from BMore-Pinball:
I am one that still thinks original themes can sell if they fire on all cylinders
An original theme still has to be a good theme
Art package and video need to be good
Layout and gameplay need to be fun
All the titles you mentioned miss at least one of those points. Black Knight comes the closest but a lot of people did not like the game play and layout. I think RAZA also came close also but most people didn't have faith that deeproot could deliver. Dialed in was a horrible theme. The video and art package on Octoberfest are terrible and the theme is horrible. The layout and gameplay on cosmic carnival was horrible. Mafia was probably the worst game I ever played. Full throttle was also a pretty bad game.

I agree that we've just been unlucky with original themes. TNA is awesome and sold very well, all things considered. I think a space theme would do very well, but yeah, it would need to be a good game. I'd love to see Keith do one to see if the profit ratio would be different.

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#27759 2 years ago

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I still think a retro space theme could sell insanely well if done correctly (like TNA was). Plus stern would save a shit ton on licensing fees to make up the difference.

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#27855 2 years ago

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Quoted from TreyBo69:
I think there’s a lot of fun shots in those game. But lots of unique mechs and sculpts? Great games still, but not as much physical stuff as GB. Godzilla Premium is close, but it’s a game that costs almost $2k more NIB

I'd consider gz as more packed than GB. Plus, none of the stuff in GB is any good anyway. It's packed full of turds.

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#27888 2 years ago

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I think there's a good chance he sees prison.

Two things we know for certain about Robert: he's an idiot and he has the ego to match. He likely has ZERO connections in the legal and/or business world that would help him. Unless there are connections and/or a shitload of cash, the courts don't mind putting fiduciary criminals away.

When he goes, I hope Greg and Zach can make the trip to interview him from his cell!

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#28023 2 years ago

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Quoted from greatwichjohn:
Horse is not dead yet!

jet.gif

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#29784 2 years ago

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I'm a little depressed. Aside from Bobby maybe going to jail, the saga has come to an end. Now we just have Andrew MacBain and the Ballarama crew, and their fuckery is just not up to Deeproot standards.

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#30335 2 years ago

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Quoted from JStoltz:
what's the time of the hearing on Monday? Might need to do some meeting moving myself.

I'd also like to know how much and what kind of beer Greatwich will be drinking during the hearing. The cost of the beer is important too for a pensioner. A story or two about highschool dance etiquette or shoplifting would be a cool bonus, maybe cross-referenced with beer drinking tales....

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#30612 2 years ago

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55 bucks. Lol

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#30629 2 years ago

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Quoted from benheck:
4) Canada

We're nice, but not that nice.

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#30681 2 years ago

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Quoted from CrazyLevi:
This thread - from front to back - needs to be required reading for any pinsider who says we need “more innovation” in pinball.
We do not. We don’t need rotating playfields. We don’t need pinbars. We don’t need built in playfield rotisseries with hydraulic struts.
We don’t need any of this nonsense. If you think you need all this stuff, you should find another hobby, because pinball is pinball and this stuff is not.

I guess I need another hobby. I'd love to play the final version of that rotating playfield.

- Love what spooky is doing with multiple playfields etc.
- Love the ramp diverters in shadow and the pong upper pf.
- Love the crazy upper in White Water.
- Absolutely love the insane backbox PF in Banzai Run.
- Love the phone and camera in Dialed In

Innovation in pinball is always welcome in my eyes. Making 10 innovative games when starting a new company is a bit different...

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#30698 2 years ago

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pinballguru bummer you couldn't get it produced. Gladiators is one of my favorite designs in all of pinball.

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#30715 2 years ago

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Quoted from goingincirclez:
Isn't that the Windows98 Space Cadet layout?
I'd love to see how they got the floating pop bumpers worked out.

I don't think so...

gladiators (resized).jpg

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#31363 1 year ago

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Bummer that they shut down Greatwich's thread. It was Deeproot 2.0.

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#31852 1 year ago

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Quoted from Ferret:
IMHO one of the best things about 90s era WMS games were their callouts. I don't think any manufacturer today has the consistency of crisp, entertaining, well-worded callouts that were found in those games. (With Medieval Madness still being far and away the leader in that regard, though it helps when you have Second City cast lending a hand!)

Rick and Morty callouts are amazing.

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#31855 1 year ago

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Quoted from Richthofen:
My favorite overall callout package is ... Stern's Avatar. Not only did they get the actor who plays the villain from the films to do them, but they're just very high energy and when the dude says "AMP SUITTTTT JACKPOT" I just love it.
Even so, if people like JPOP are trying to sell you "90s magic", it can't be that callouts are what is going to sell a game, right? did JPOP even have a title with good callouts? The best 90s callout game was I think AFM and then MM after that. Otherwise, Good quotes from STTNG but its not like the callouts are that energetic. I dunno if the premise is: existing games suck and I'll give you 90s magic, via CALLOUTS, I mean, that's a lame selling point IMHO.

The woman/women in totan and theatre of magic did a wonderful job. Also, sttng Picard whisper of encouragement is over the top awesomeness.

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#32687 1 year ago

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Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
No one cares about your bullshit, John. A few did until you burned that to the ground.

I miss John's bullshit thread... Time well wasted.

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#32692 1 year ago

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GWJ Movie (resized).jpg

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#32803 10 months ago

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He's probably just trying to stall as long as possible. The judge seemed to want to move it along. He'll drag out the court proceedings for years, looking for differing stalls and loopholes. Then he'll drag out the civil suits. "Blobbert" couldn't be more appropriate.

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#32968 7 months ago

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Quoted from ZNET:
Spice Grinder was the deeproot game following Food Truck, as I recall.

Triple fucking upvote button needed.

By pin2d

6 years ago

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