(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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360 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #111 Firsthand information from the Magic Girl programmer. Posted by applejuice (6 years ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by PinMonk (5 years ago)

Post #5771 First RAZA gameplay video Posted by ZMeny (4 years ago)

Post #5874 RAZA video with more audible game sounds Posted by zaphX (4 years ago)

Post #5926 First RAZA video with successful ramp completion Posted by zaphX (4 years ago)

Post #5967 Another RAZA gameplay video Posted by flynnibus (4 years ago)

Post #6050 Closeup pictures of key playfield features Posted by Potatoloco (4 years ago)

Post #6133 Video of display animations Posted by LateCenturyMods (4 years ago)

Post #6329 Summary of Robert Mueller's interview Posted by jeffspinballpalace (4 years ago)

Post #6724 RAZA Gameplay video Posted by DS_Nadine (4 years ago)


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#2012 5 years ago

I have no idea what Deeproot are working on but my best guest (based on Pinball's next logical progression) would be a mix of a real physical game and some virtual elements.

Andrew Heighway had an idea of using a screen overlay to cover the entire playfield on which images could be projected. We later developed this idea into using a virtual visor that the player would wear which could project in real time 3D, overlaid animations to a game of pinball. Very similar to what Pinball FX3 are doing now, but for real.

The visor idea is many years in the future but what I think Deeproot might be attempting is the full screen overlay which can project animations of explosions, sparks, smoke onto the playfield.

This isn't a new idea and I've been doing this myself in my own virtual games for nearly a decade - adding holographic animations to games like Medieval Madness (castle explosions) and Iron Man (lighting bolts).

But on a real table, it's never been done before.

Imagine a smoke bomb that obscures part of the playfield for a second or two, dropped by a player using a mobile app? The possibilities are endless.

It may be a tough sell to seasoned old farts, but the new generation will love it.

It's the next step in pinball's evolution. Only question is, who's going to get there first.

3 months later
#2617 5 years ago

The swappable playfield idea never worked and was never tested at Heighway. We only ever tested a playfield swap of the same game in a quick video demo. It was one of Andrew's bat shit crazy ideas that was binned when the new owners took over.

1 year later
20
#9614 3 years ago

From my own personal experience, when a pinball company shows nothing, and relies heavily on the very last marketing option - the teaser, then something is very wrong. For HP it was getting the games to actually function as they were supposed to, and just making sure what left the factory wouldn't break within a few days of ownership.

Far beyond sound guys, artists and coders....the mechanical and electrical engineers are the real beating heart of pinball game design. HP cut corners in this department and it cost them dearly.

Hell, I can code, create art and design audio packages for games, I do it every day. But could I design a circuit board and create complex mechanical toys? No way.

No one can match Stern, they've earned their place at the top with decades of experience in this field. They constantly drop the ball with coding simply because their output is remarkably fast.

You wanna make large mechanical toys with blinking lights? You go shopping for the best (experienced) engineers money can buy.

1 week later
#11372 3 years ago

A screen on the lockdown bar? What a genius idea for the vision-impaired over-50s...no more squinting to see the score on that 'Little Color Display'.

#11697 3 years ago

We all knew this day was coming, a touch screen on a pinball machine. Hardly innovative, just simply catching up with the surrounding world we now live in.

As a designer I could certainly have me some fun coming up with new ideas for it's use, but unless you have a highly-skilled penis, you will need to use one hand or the other to make all the swipy actions on the screen....meaning a disconnect from the game while you navigate the options, not a terribly good idea.

To be honest, the action button Stern came up with, that was a damn cool idea...because you can smack it, real hard and real quick. Gentely gliding your finger along a screen, just won't feel right, as there's no physical feedback.

And a QWERTY keyboard to enter your name? Just an excuse to leave 'comedy' names behind like 'Ivan Ardon 69'.

I just hope it doesn't add a tremendous amount of time and money to their budget, like JJP's ridiculous big TV and all it's nonsense. Keep it real, keep it pinball.

1 month later
#13514 3 years ago

A few years ago I created a command console for my modern-day remaster of STTNG. Similar to this pinbar idea, it allowed the player to make command decisions during the game, like raise shields, divert power, activate Red Alert. Rather than just pressing 2 flipper buttons I wanted to give the player more control of the game, and feel more like the Captain of the Enterprise.

My screen was virtual and hovered above the lockdown bar, only appearing when activated by the player, so not a constant distraction - the advantages of virtual pinball!

Maybe DR saw the video I produced on YouTube and 'borrowed' my idea.

Using the pinbar to play destracting media which duplicates the backglass LCD is a terrible idea. Use it like my command console idea and they'll have an innovation that will lead the way for others to follow.

Immersion is what players want now, and more control will draw them deeper into the experience.

3 months later
#16358 3 years ago

Well there you go...it's curtains for Deep Root. Another one bites the dust!

#16491 3 years ago

This company is mortally wounded. It will stagger on a few more months, but the end is inevitable. I've seen it all before. I was in the middle of the Heighway Pinball shit show and DR has made all the same mistakes. Some people will probably get a game, and a mightily rare game it will be, worth some decent coin in the long run.

The only reason HP survived for as long as it did, was because of Alien. But that company was doomed from the start.

The only chance DR has for [short-term] survival, is to secure a massive license (Goonies isn't big enough), take a mountain of pre-order money, and squeeze more money from investors - the Heighway Pinball Hail Mary.

Stick a fork in this one boys, it's done.

1 week later
#16727 3 years ago
bUCK (resized).JPGbUCK (resized).JPG
2 weeks later
#17441 3 years ago

I'm pretty sure most of his unpaid staff have walked by now. Seeking legal advice probably, to get wages owed. I have no idea why Robert continues to chase this dream...a tremendously expensive dream.

This company can't possibly make any profit with what they're offering. If they have an Ace up their sleeve, now is the time to play it.

3 weeks later
#17856 2 years ago

Well let's hope we see something, sometime soon. This company has been taking a hammering in this thread.....mainly because it's fun busting their balls! But honestly, no one wants another failed pinball company.

So I'm rooting for Deeproot to pull this off....but I'm still gonna bust their balls!

#17988 2 years ago

DR should just reach out to Pinball Arcade or Zen and have their games made digitally. A million downloads worldwide across all gaming platforms. At $4 a pop.....not a bad chunck of change.

1 month later
#18951 2 years ago

I could build a virtual version, then give it away for free. Would only take me about 2 weeks. But even for free, I don't think anyone would bother with it.

3 weeks later
10
#19601 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Its still pinball. Not pinamations. Most $$$ and focus should be on gameplay, not backboard animations.

I'm always amused when I see people play a JJP game....they hardly ever look up at the big tele on the backglass. All that money spent on fancy-arsed animations, which adds hardly anything to the gameplay. It's a glorified scoreboard, that's all.

#19780 2 years ago

I'd pick Dennis Nordman for Goonies, it would match his style perfectly. I see Goonies as a cross between Stern's POTC and Whitewater. Dennis is the ramp master!

18
#19871 2 years ago

I wrote pages and pages of funny one liners for Full Throttle. Had the main character - Francisco Valentino, pretty much just firing insults at the player every chance he gets. I remember the sensitive souls at Heighway saying: "You can't do that, you can't insult the player like that". I fired back saying: "He's an arsehole, I want the player to hate him, so they try harder to beat him". And boy, when you beat an arsehole, do you feel good about it!

In all the games I produce, when you drain, I make sure I throw in a multitude of insults and hysterical laughter at your expense. Why? So it's fires you up to play better, but it also softens the blow of the losing the ball, and you'll break a smile.

You have to write a ton of lines when making a pinball game, and having any line repeat in a single game is a big NO NO!!

But whom in the wonderful world of (real) pinball is a skilled writer of dialogue? Pinball has changed, and story-telling is now starting to take center stage.

If you want my advice....find yourself a writer when out shopping for new talent Mr Deep Pockets. Forget shitty and expensive animations...no one's looking at that crap, only spectators.

I would offer my services, but I've been in one pinball train wreck already.

2 weeks later
-5
#21141 2 years ago
Quoted from pookycade:

Here is the absolutely sad thing and missed opportunity. Imagine for a moment if they really did have top notch animation artists and that they had a pin in hand for them to play with. Let them go wild and add 3D AR to the game. Basically a Pin2K for the 2020s. Done right, now that would have been a true innovation people likely would have lined up for. PinBar not so much. That is where artistry would matter. Forget the back box display, the whole game is the back box. Lexi on steroids as it were. The ultimate fusion of physical pinball with all the mechs, and video game/virtual pin.

What I suggested a few years back in this very thread. AR in pinball is the next big step, it's just a case of who gets there first.

I actually thought Deep Root were working on this tech, turns out they just farted out a silly Pinbar, which impressed no one.

IMMERSION, IMMERSION, IMMERSION...is the key to pinball's continued success into the next generation and beyond. The old farts left in the industry are way behind the times and should be taken out to pasture. How many 70 year olds do you see working at Naughty Dog or Rock Star?

New blood, new ideas, new innovations.....it's all uncapped and waiting out there.

-1
#21142 2 years ago

.

1 week later
#21937 2 years ago

Hasn't the final nail been hammered into this coffin yet?

#22408 2 years ago
Quoted from KerryImming:

You left out "Bill Paxton Pinball" from 2009/2010, a fully working game if I recall correctly. Oh, and very cool.

The making of vids for that game where the first pinball videos I ever watched on YouTube. At the time I had just started my pinball hobby, and was working on an idea for an Aliens pinball game. When searching for Bill Paxton quotes, Ben's vid popped up. Amazing work, which is still one of the best homebrew pins I've seen.

Damn, still can't believe Bill died so early.

1 week later
#23598 2 years ago

Robert must've worked hard in little old lady land to get all that investment money.

LL.gifLL.gif
-2
#23872 2 years ago

Smells a lot like 'The Producers' to me....little old lady land for investments, then produce the naffest pinball games in history ensuring guaranteed failure....but, fly in the ointment, monkey in the wrench.....turns out RAZA is actually pretty good, screwed up their plans.

#24189 2 years ago
Quoted from Sinistarrett:

Is Barry asleep in that picture?
[quoted image]

Kinda looks like Barry and Dennis are secretly texting each other:

Dennis: Hey Barry....WAKE UP!
Barry: I'm not sleeping, I'm thinking.
Dennis: What about?
Barry: Robert just asked if I wanted to invest my savings in the company.
Dennis: Oh yeah, me too.
Barry: What did you say?
Dennis: I told him to go blow it out his ass.

textmeoutahere (resized).jpgtextmeoutahere (resized).jpg
-19
#24692 2 years ago

JPop may be hard to work with and almost unmanageable, but I have no doubt of the man's passion for pinball and his genius at game design...it looks easy but it's incredibly difficult to come up with new layout ideas in that limited rectangular space.

Try it yourself, jot down on a napkin a layout idea for a even a simple game that's fun to shoot (without copying J.Borg, S.Ritchie, P.Lawlor layout signatures we're all very familiar with). Then consider all the mechanical parts needed to make it work and the complexity of the circuitry and wiring underneath.

In a pinball development team, layout and mechanics is the toughest task of all, that requires the most skill, because it's pretty much set in stone early on. Code can evolve over many years, even decades later new ideas from new coders can be added to a game. As demonstrated here with Terminator 2:

Audio can also be improved, as new technology allows for full audio replacement in pinball games.

But you can't change the shot layout (not in the real physical world of pinball). And you never need to.

If JPop's talent can somehow be controlled and managed, we'd see some great games from him in the future.

It's just rotten luck he was suckered into joining the DeepRoot scam, so soon after his own failed business attempt.

Pinball needs diversity to keep it fresh and interesting.....it needs JPop's crazy ideas.

1 week later
#25535 2 years ago

Very odd how some people feel the need to leave a signature on each post.

SLAMT1LT
ULTIMATE Pro Pinball

4 weeks later
11
#26134 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Here are some anonymous accounts from a deeprooter. Breaking them into two posts...

Interesting to see how similar Robert and Andrew Heighway were. Now I'm a smart cookie and within a few weeks of working at HP I realized I was working for a mad dreamer, and the company was ultimately destined to fail; like stepping aboard the Titanic when you know what's coming...what the hell, it's experience and may actually be fun, so I remained with the company until it sank.

Many leaped very early on....everyone, even down to the Receptionists knew Heighway Pinball was a lost cause. But we did get a few games out the door.

Very sad that so many who worked for so long on the DeepRoot disaster, pretty much wasted a small part of their lives. And now have a resume tarnished with a failed and corrupt company.

2 cautionary tales from the darkest corner of....The Pinball Zone.

4 weeks later
#26700 2 years ago

You'd have to be braindead to stick around working for this clown as soon as the payroll dried up. No pay-um, no stay-um.

4 months later
#28848 2 years ago

So many crappy ideas. But the company did provide some entertainment, as a miserable failure we could all laugh at.

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