Quoted from iceman44:My proof of claim is the Pinside thread I started years ago. I didn’t go through yrs of BS for the fun of it
I can’t go back and get canceled checks from that far back
Sooo, you got out lawyered. Nice.
(Topic ID: 203700)
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Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Quoted from iceman44:Nope, DR has been really good and responsive about the claim. They discovered my payments through John's info. I only had $4250 in RAZA and AIW and had written that off long ago.
I'm on team DR now! Hoping for the best and success in this new venture.
Thats cool. I am too actually. Not sure why Deeproot gets so much hate, but if they help get you guys paid back or a game, shouldn't we all be pulling for them?
Quoted from Aurich:I'm hardly a Heighway cheerleader, my frustrations are pretty public, but there are over 100 Aliens shipped, and however many Full Throttles, maybe less than that, but still a real game you could actually play. The company is struggling, their communication sucks, they're constantly digging out of the hole Andrew left them, and I'm not blaming anyone for being frustrated with them too. But games have shipped, the code is real (that's a big one), I don't think they belong next to vaporware.
It's not that I want anyone to get boned, I have friends who lost money with Jpop. But I have a tough love approach to it personally. People took a risk, they got conned, and they lost their money. It sucks. For most people it wasn't a huge sum, but legit thousands. I just don't really think the lesson should be "don't worry, someone will bail you out" and then Jpop gets to have a job again. He should never get to work in the industry again, instead of being enabled. That's my perspective at least.
I'm not losing sleep over it, and if someone is crazy enough to try and take on his debt and make his customers whole I can't be mad about that part. I hope it turns out well.
I rarely disagree with your perspective, but on this.. Sure, those who got burnt may not even notice the money gone, but they still need to be made whole. If it takes managing jPoop, so be it.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Not sure what’s scarier - JPop with a light saber (cattle prod?!?) or the height of his pants.
Its a JPOOP designed, Deep-root funded probe! It comes in LE too..
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:That is great! Now someone please do a version where the pants completely go over his head. Just arms and pants.
But keep the hair!!
1 week later
Quoted from frolic:Makes sense, being based in Texas, that they would launch at TPF.
However, that exposes their weak business model, IMO. Selling to pinball fans at shows. That works for Spooky and the numbers they push, but that is failure for anyone trying to be bigger than "boutique".
Pinball shows are low hanging fruit, but there isn't much.
They have taken a beating on Pinside without people seeing games. They need to change that narrative and let pinsiders get to actually know the company, good or bad.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:You don't think they'd have been better off not letting us get to know them?
Not if they are trying to see you a product.
1 month later
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Come on, guys.. Deeproot was founded by an attorney. At least half of you have to be smart enough to know that the majority will be legally and definitively screwed by complete means of technicality roulette - minus a few lucky handful to make the whole thing look legit.
Seems their are many attornies on this site. A purge would be welcome.
1 month later
Quoted from o-din:I aint seen nothing yet.
All I see is talk about Ferraris at Yugo prices, and a mention of a $50,000 game that I would never want in the first place.
I would want it, if I couple afford a $50,000 pin means I'm rich AF!
Quoted from Richthofen:Savior of humanity? LOL. Guy’s a fraud, who got really lucky early in his career. Remember the “solar roof”? At the announcement, the demo panels weren’t working solar tiles. Elon could crush at boutique pinball because he already knows how to show up with just a box of lights
I thought he was being sarcastic. Please Wolfmarsh please tell me you were being sarcastic!
4 weeks later
Quoted from Drewscruis:They will be made out of "vaporware" completely indestructible due to them not existing.
What makes you say that?
Quoted from jonesjb:What material will the Deeproot playfields be made out of? Will it be wood, or another material?
Someone mentioned oldhammers earlier?
1 week later
Quoted from benheck:Really the end goal should be to remove everything mechanical and simulate the game with a high-quality 3D 4K LCD glass.
Use head tracking to change perspective on the fly.
Please God, no!
Quoted from Rondogg:Serious question. What is "visceral" about pinball that you don't think can be emulated with future technology?
The sound of the ball hitting the metal ramp and coming down the guide on Metallica! It's real, not tricking me with software. I dont want to wear a helmet to play and regardless of how well it's done, I just don't see it being the same.
Plus don't we look at screens all day. Phones, computers, etc etc. Mechanical anything is an escape from the digital realm.
Quoted from Brijam:It's awesome to dream, and I invite you to continue dreaming. We need more dreamers. If you're making an actual product, though, it'd better be anchored to something that is actually possible /now/.
Screen resolution isn't the issue. We need two inputs to see in 3D - left eye, right eye. That's why you'll probably always need goggles or glasses. You'll /still/ need a cabinet.
Maybe someday we will have cheap, lightweight glasses that can paint pixels right on our retinas with no latency and at the same resolution we see the world in. That's a hell of a big maybe, my friend.
Or maybe someday we'll have direct neural input, then we wouldn't need a cabinet. That's an even bigger maybe. A colossal maybe.Indeed, I've been an early adopter all my life and continue to be one. I've been ridiculed (hell, even here) for being an early adopter by 'those people.'
Your comparison isn't apples-to-apples. There is a real need for autonomous vehicles and technology that looks promising; a product that nearly everyone would use. Virtual pinball is a niche of a niche of a niche. It's an expensive solution without a problem.
It's the apples to oranges scenarios that these guys are throwing out. 8 track to cassette to CD is apples to apples. Mechanical vs virtual is not the same in terms of advancement and progression.
Quoted from Rondogg:Yes, you will still have a cabinet and all the physical feelings/sounds from a cabinet. Inside the cabinet would be an 8k (or even better) resolution screen with real time head tracking capability to simulate 3d.
Look, I get that it is hard to imagine but just look where the tech was just 10 or 20 years ago and project where it's heading, what people/companies are working on to get to simulations much more complex than a pinball machine.
It will start with young people (as it usually does) and early adopters who see a benefit in having a maintenance free single machine they can play with their friends all over the world. There will always be a place for real pinball, just as there will always be a place for EM or even prewar collectors. Nobody will ask you to give up your machine or to stop loving physical pinball.
Young people don't have the $$$ it's going to take to buy one of these.
1 week later
1 week later
Quoted from vicjw66:How does Robert Mueller have time to run a pinball manufacturing company and also head up a Russian collusion investigation?
Since there is nothing to the Russian B's, he has plenty of time
1 month later
Ok all you who are bitching, what news do you have that is getting crowded out? Spill the beans. Or relax.
If people are looking for relevant updates, shouldn't everyone be banned from posting, unless you work for deeproot?
Quoted from o-din:I'm must say I'm impressed with the presentation! I want one of each.
Where do I send my money?
PMd you!!!
1 month later
Quoted from Stuart_Pitt9876:Yeah, um, about those Deeproot pinball machines...
What about them? Got any info?
Didn't think so, so relax.
Quoted from Fulltilt:I don't need to be offered a virtual pin, pin FX, or anything else not pinball.
I invested in Zidware to have a cool, hopefully unique and collectable pinball machine.
I'm now willing to settle for a nice playable machine. Ok, thanks to Robert's goodwill terms a couple of machines.
And before I'm in assisted living... they may or may not want them in the dayroom.
You are the first person I have seen who says they "invested" in ZW. Investors lose money a the time, better luck on your next investment. The rest of the "Buyers" should not have lost their money. Choose your investments wisely.
Quoted from Fulltilt:Giving money to somebody or company, including JPop, for a product/something never made and only a fantasy vision, is always an investment or if you prefer, gamble. I always knew I could end up with nothing but fantasized it would be a great pin. If you had sent in money and were on Wordpress following the story, you would likely have been manipulated too.
If you didn't send in money to Jpop... STFU.
Wrong. A person invests in something to make money. You agreed to purchase a product from a company. What was the rate of return you were expecting on your investment?
Quoted from rubberducks:You may not have put more money in, but you're investing more hope and faith in, " ..... a product/something never made and only a fantasy vision..."
At Expo, Robert confidently told us they would launch more titles (and have them ready to ship) in 2019 than anybody in the history of the industry, and it would all kick off in March at TPF. He'd been saying all year that they'd produce more units than the whole industry / Stern in their first year.
50 days later, he acknowledged their spending was unsustainable without a launch soon, pulled out of TPF, and 'hoped' the launch would be in 2019.
That's a pretty extraordinary climbdown, and it seems to suggest there's no chance whatsoever of them meeting the scale and bombast of his earlier stated goals.
To avoid major disappointment, or to be pleasantly surprised if they do pull it off, you might wish to reel in your expectations a little, rather than potentially falling into the same trap again.
History repeats itself.
Quoted from Fulltilt:Playing a cool Jpop Zombie pinball.
With a glue gun, zombie chicks and some ping pong balls..
Still, a purchase. Were you promised those things?
Quoted from Fulltilt:Well hell... you want me to tell you about the go-go girls, robots, rollercoasters, x-ray goggles, flying saucers, 3D glasses and zombie bowling?
Magno-ball lifts, a cat, neonized ramps, my plasma gun, (don't know what the hell 3D parts and a tilt-a-girl is), a swinging target and BEN'S HEAD!
Hell yes I was promised those things.... WTF do you think we are complaining about.
I was promised the moon and I want it!
Ok... I made up the ping pong balls but I felt it an awful lot like Mr Moose playing Captain Kangaroo.
Yes, you were promised a product, that you used money to purchase. You got ripped off. With an investment, there are no promises.
Quoted from frolic:Still is a company. A lot of effort has gone into keeping it alive. Zidware still owes me a game.
Do you consider this a purchase, or an investment?
Quoted from boo32:Aurich bragging about being able to recognize a pinball fraud?
Remember, Heighway had already produced one pinball machine before Alien. There is a difference.
Quoted from flynnibus:Jpop didn't crowd fund. He presold titles to fund his business. Customers bought into a boutique product model from a guy with zero capacity or business to actual deliver on the sales promises.
I say investing because these people bought with the idea that if they didn't... the product would not be made. It became an urgency to get in... while you could. All while ignoring the lack of ability to do it
How can seemingly educated people not know the difference between investing, crowdfunding, and purchasing lol. www.websters.com
Quoted from Zablon:They were pre-purchasing a product that didn't exist, hoping that with enough people doing it, it would be made. That is crowdfunding. Investing is completely different in that it doesn't stop at 'getting a product' (which actually is not the goal or promised to begin with).
And you are wrong as well. This was never advertised as a crowdfunding deal, or an investment. It was advertised as"You send us money, we send you a game when it's produced."
That, my friend, is a purchase.
At least only investors at the moment are waiting for something from deeproot.
Quoted from Zablon:Apparently you've never been part of a failed crowdfunding deal. Same thing. You only 'aren't purchasing' if the actual funding fails. If it succeeds, you purchased, and then you 'hope' you get your item. It is exactly this. Either way, it sucks balls and people who do it should be ordered to maid service to everyone they screw for a year each.
Point me I the direction of any screenshot, post, text, email etc etc where Zidware proclaimed this was a crowdfunding effort and might not happen?
Hint, it doesn't exist and to this day, he will probably tell you that it could "still" happen.
One thing you do have right, I have never crowdfunded. I would never send a penny to someone who hopes to make said product. That's just goofy lol.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:Can't wait to see what machines J-Pop will create next with Deeproot, he has created the best Pins ever made and after I saw the unfinished Magic Girl, still looks like he's got the magic. 2019 will be the year of the Pinball Return!
Troll post lol. Nothing to see here!
Quoted from wolfemaaan:So what date is the first J-Pop deeproot Pin coming out in 2019? Do we know what theme it will be?
Shitshow LE. PM for details and exclusive insight showing how shit, will be shown. Payment information will be provided. FYI. Cash only.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:Regardless of how butthurt a few are here, the complaints have no relevance on me (or anybody else) for buying the next great pinball machine from Deeproot or anybody else for that matter.
All that matters is how good it plays, the value for the price, and if its fun to ME.
So with that, keep the tears rollin here. Ill be off to play some J-Pop favorites (and Pinside/IPDB Top 20 Pins) like TOTAN, TOM, Cirque Voltaire, World Cup Soccer, etc.
Merry Christmas!
Cool, keep flipping! We all hope it works out, as DP has not asked for $$$ from buyers. DP brought this on themselves by hiring this criminal. Seriously, what value does he bring to DP. None. Which indicates they didnt do any due diligence before hiring this thief. Also, with this announcement that they will not be revealing 1 game, let alone 5 at one time means one thing.
Pinball is hard, but people don't listen.
Quoted from Fulltilt:Well I want to say it again. Deeproot had no obligation to give me anything... nada...
Robert called me personally to let me know I would be receiving 2 Deeproot titles for my monetary loss to Zidware.
So where the heck is the problem?
Has Deeproot asked money up front from anyone?
I'm willing to wait a little bit longer.... ain't costin' me nothin'.
Quoted from Fulltilt:So I went from screwed out of $9500 to maybe getting a couple machines? I can actually be a bit optimistic.
And you and others deserve to be made whole. No pessimism there.
Quoted from Yelobird:You realize they already did made commitments to early Zidware buyers when this all started which they didn’t need to clean up his mess but did.
And people believed him and believed DR was somehow different. I just don't get it.
2 weeks later
Quoted from rubberducks:"The designer will also help set up the machine, discuss the design process and the game, and play your game at your place of residence!! You can invite up to four friends."
The above looks awfully familiar ... sounds like someone we know is calling the shots.
Is JPop's body an empty vessel, with one of those parasitic mind slug things controlling it, and has he infected RM?
Seems like it.
You have got to be kidding me!!!
Quoted from lancestorm:It’s a repost dude and now you look silly
The mere fact they said it once is enough to repost and laugh. Did he seriously not know JPOOP did the same thing?
Quoted from spfxted:Yes, I understand that....i'm just trying to explain why the mistrust, etc....
Sure does seem that JPoop has some pull there, or at least the owners ear.
Quoted from Fulltilt:Well to me that’s a good thing, or else I wouldn’t be offered shit.
Not if he is leading them down the same path he went down. 5 games released at the same time, we will come set it up etc etc. Such hyperbole! I wish you guys luck though, you deserve your games.
2 weeks later
Quoted from HeavyMetalBalls:Which is why it's a lot cheaper to sponser a pinball show compared to the cost of movie marketing.
At least with movies, they have something to print a poster for. Deeproot, from 5 games in 5 days, too crickets.
But deeproot hasn't taken anybody's money yet, so no harm, no foul.
1 week later
Quoted from unigroove:Wait, are we talking about a The Office-themed pinball game?
No, the movie office space. You must check it out, great movie.
Quoted from deeprootmatt:Okay, i'm buying Jpop a red swingline this weekend. This is too great
Office Space* its a movie not a TV show. Either one would make a great pinball theme though
On another note, website also seems to be back now. My guess is it was probably just a network issue.
Problem is, in the movie the dude with the red stapler burns everything to the ground. History repeating itself at DR, with the guy you gave the stapler too? Irony.
Btw, as a network engineer, its always the network, even if you are able to get to the website, and then get the error. 
Quoted from deeprootmatt:So i want to take a minute here to give my own personal account and experience working with Jpop. I figure a sort of third party opinion from someone who has been working closely with him over the last 1.5 years might be of interest. Again, this is my own personal opinion.
I will also preface this message with this: I get it. He screwed up. A lot of people here are upset. And i completely understand that. I will continue to stay out of that as much as i can and focus on what I can do: doing my part in bringing about success for deeproot.
John has been, and continues to be a great friend. He is always able to provide valuable insight into whatever aspect I am working on. The amazing conversations we have had are numerous, and his passion for pinball is absolutely contagious. I have now been brought into the pinball world i never knew existed.. and its amazing! I have learned more over the last 1.5 years than I could have ever imagined and John has had a big part in that. So I wanted to take this moment to share this with you guys, and take it as you will.
Also, I hate to leave out the other amazing people I get to work with as John is just one of MANY people at deeproot. All of us here are REALLY excited for what is to come, and it is coming!
Thats cool man! Are you a graduate of jpops school of pinball? https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-happened-to-jpops-pinball-school
I hope you learned some real lessons, both in what to do right in pinball, and what not to do. So far, Deeproot has not asked for a $ of preorder money, so they are still AOK in my book. Funny he wants to give the red stapler to the guy who burns it down, in the movie of course!
1 week later
Quoted from DS_Nadine:I hope they don't land on the street and get run over by a car.
Edit:
Adressing the downvotes: Why do you wish any people physical harm? Shame on you!
Why would you wish deeproot to fail?
Quoted from Chalkey:Them showing you, pinball media, things that they legitimately don't want to get out without an NDA. Then you not reporting anything. The mind reels.
Exactly. If you cant say anything, then who cares.
Quoted from Bublehead:Maybe it’s a Reverse-Reverse Psychology Guerrilla marketing campaign?... Say you are going to do a big reveal at TPF... then pull out of TPF early, but then crash it with 5 servings of pinball machine goodness and promise that they are ready to start rolling out of the quad (?), just pick any one of 5 titles, and your machine should be delivered in 4 to 6 weeks from date of order. Now that might generate some sales. If they have just a booth with their Logo and a bunch of designers and marketing types hanging out saying “everthing is awesome!” handing out Deeproot keychains, then that is probably not going to cut it.
That would be badass, although you can't say guerilla anymore. Its racist apparently.
Quoted from Bublehead:Well thats a new one on me... apparently people are confusing a warfare and marketing tactic with a species of primates whose name sounds somewhat similar. I don’t think you can make that mistake in print, but you can never be too sure. But then again, what word could we use instead??
An announcer at a televised tennis match said the player was playing with guerilla tactics or something when attacking the net. Of course it had to be a black player(who was not offended) and the announcer got fired. Stupidity abounds..
3 weeks later
Quoted from Richthofen:Except Steve Bowden gave up his teaching career to move to texas and go work for DR. This is the part that worries me. People like to think "What's the harm in Andrew Heighway/JPOP/etc blowing money", but there's always collateral damage. AppleJuice not getting paid for coding work. The game designer for Heighway who was unpaid and basically made broke. There's always collateral damage when you look behind the big personalities. When DR fails, it will mess over a lot of people, like the investors in Robert's funds, which will then make it harder for pinball manufacturers in the future to raise capital.
I almost immediately thought this was a fraud because THEY ARE SPONSORING EVENTS. A company with zero cash flow and nothing but expenses is sponsoring Pinburgh and otherwise spending money on shit they shouldn't. Reminded me of Dutch Pinball throwing a boozy party with hired models. Pinball is a low margin item, hand manufactured in the USA where labor is notoriously expensive. IMHO If you want to be successful as a pinball manufacturer you need to count every penny to be profitable, especially in the early stages where you have to outlay large expenses (equipment, leases, employees, 1 year lead time on product development) without selling anything just yet. Sponsoring events to 'build brand awareness' is the kind of marketing bullshit people think you need, but let's face it: you can post on pinside you're making a game and pinside will shower you with attention until the games come out.
Oh, and then don't even get me started on taking on JPOP's liabilities and former customers. How that would ever be a profitable move is beyond me.
I agree with everythjng you said, except the part about collateral damage. Anytime you change jobs, you better do your research, especially if its a startup that has not actually produced anything.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Here’s to hoping they follow through! It’s hard without anything to look at whatsoever. Even JPop had art by this time ..
Jpop had art because he ripped off the real artist. Zombie Yeti.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Is it 5 days of nothing now?
Why do people comment before reading the entire thread? This was announced months ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:You are on Pinside. (:
Well I guess it was sarcastic, but I missed it. Either way, come on dr make some games and raise the bar, while lowering cost!
2 weeks later
Quoted from wolfemaaan:Well, looking forward to whatever they turn out even if it’s a pin called Finger Ass
I heard its FingHer ass. Think of it as a Playboy for the 21st century, with pornhub contributing assets. Just what I heard!
Seem like a cartidge system to me. No way they could get 4 full size playfields on a rotating arm, in any decent sized cab.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:Would be nice if Deeproot dropped an clue tomorrow to make the JJP hype take a u-turn
Lol, would not matter.
Quoted from andre060:Thanks for the reminder, that date is coming up fast! I couldn't find the full terms anymore, looks like they have been pulled down. What do claimants get if the games aren't delivered by then?
Keep waiting.
1 week later
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:Deeproot will be number 1 in pinball soon enough.
Robert, is this a fake account! Or Special K
Quoted from cjmjmm2006:Not at all. I'm saying that casual players tend to appreciate the game more than someone that reads code before they play a game.
Or watches a YouTube vid
Quoted from DS_Nadine:"Not feasible" means that every play of thoughts has it's downsides that would have to be worked out and I don't claim to present you a fleshed out solution aka IAMRIGHT.
But I am.
I'm only think it further. I want it not only to work but to be cheap. So the question when developing something like I proposed is how much decrease in precision can you justify/ will be noticeable.
My proposed solution is for example not feasible if the cameras view is obstructed. So you have to evaluate if that is a major problem and how often there is something in between the top of the backbox and the glass. (Under the usual circumstances: Never)
So we could collectivly let our phantasy flow and work some of this out just for fun or just keep saying that everything is shit, impossible and everyone else is wrong.
And camera in the ball is a terrible idea for obvious reasons I pointed out immediately.
Oh and sadly I don't know of a single P3 in europe. Also I am not in pinball development but in automotive.
While I appreciate the back and forth, you are talking best case scenario. What happens when the ball "jumps" off a post due to old rings? What happens if there is a multiple happening and you have multiple jumps? Ball tracking will be lost. Then what? Play again?
Quoted from Mr68:I’ve been trying to collect my thoughts about the Jpop hate in this thread. For me, I’m mostly over it and I have better reasons than most to be angry. I’m continuing along with my lawsuit against the man and I do seek justice. But at this point I’m weary of my posturing in the past and I’m especially tired of these useless, drive-by, Pinside out bursts of hate. Example the non-sequitur comment a few pages back about Deeproot needing to fire Jpop.
One of the reason I mention this is because I sense an evolution of improving attitudes here towards Jpop. It seems to me that more and more people are now speaking up in supporting John. And I get it, as I see reasons to support him and Deeproot too.
Anyway, I find the recent attitude change here interesting from where we began long ago, along with my own evolution.
Whether I collect my judgment against Jpop in time or not, I intend to purchase a RAZA or other Deeproot machine, pending inspection and production of course. - Do as you like but those are my thoughts.
Note: I still hate Whysnow. Hopefully I can maintain some street cred with that.
Who did Why Snow rip off? I guess I don't understand the hatred for him.
Quoted from iceman44:Lol Kim!
Glad you got out of your Magic Girl with a profit. That is a small club of people.
I hope we ALL can move forward and benefit. At least DR is trying to make it right after all these years.
Only the lawyers win. Still true years later. Nobody is ever getting a dime out of Jpop. Still
So Kim is a lawyer too?
Quoted from KoolFingers:You need a Buzz to keep reading this.
Is this a hint that Toy Story is coming! Buzz Lightyear!!!
1 week later
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:I get what you are saying and agree to some extent, but if an investment firm hired Bernie Madoff, that would overshadow anything else and be a lot of what people want to talk about.
I dont care what company it is, save for Stern, if people buy pre-orders regardless of who is or isnt employed, they are fools.
Quoted from deeproot:I can’t believe I have to remind users here on Pinside, or listeners of podcasts, to assume anything posted (or disseminated) as fact by anyone other than me (personally) is guaranteed to be nothing more than unsubstantiated speculation. Letters went out to a few Zidware customers that said nothing more than (paraphrasing): get in the contract sent to you last year by May 31st or else your claim will be denied.
We plan to make a statement on or about June 1st regarding the Zidware claims. A statement will also be made as to the launch date of deeproot. A date we’ve spent a lot of time ensuring will be met this time.
Lastly, I agree with Kaneda that it is not fair that people are holding money back from making other purchases (pinball or otherwise) expecting us to imminently launch. We won’t be. I’ve said two things from the beginning. Pinball is easy; everything that goes into making pinball is not. We will launch when we are ready, and no sooner.
— Robert, dT
Now thats a splash of cold water. Imagine if you never hired that conman and thief!! Started with a dirty slate from day one. I really wish I would have been a fly on the wall when those convos took place.
Good luck though, I hope you succeed!
3 weeks later
Quoted from Bublehead:“come to our event, our event is so famous even the drunks crash our party”
That is Marketing 101.
That'll have the families rushing in!!
Quoted from chiefbrody:seems obvious they have taken a page out of a recent surprisingly successful political campaign:
- make it all about 'me'. Only I can do this.
- the other guys are losers.
- I can do it. Believe it.
making pinball great again. Get the hat.
My buddies dad does have that hat! Its epic and signed by a few designers..
Quoted from iceman44:There is no magic silver bullet to make this shit happen. It's not a "mystery".
Show me some financials as a potential investor today?
RAZA has been promised for 5 yrs now.
Is it really that difficult to get one game out there? Spooky does it.
DR better sell a shitload of every "ten's of pinball games" they make.
How is it that everybody F ing hates Stern, JJP, Spooky etc. and DR is gonna roll in and save the day?
I don't know, show me the results, not the bullshit rhetoric.
"ROI" equals Return on Investment.
Is that "funny"?
This brings up a great point. "If RAZA" is some DR revolutionary pin, with only sharing the theme with one of Jpops hobbies, then ok. If RAZA is a standard pin, then they have spent millions to develop and its delayed again. Maybe they realized even regular pinball is hard?
2 weeks later
Quoted from skink91:Are you under the impression that using correct grammar is only appropriate on certain types of websites? Is attacking someone’s incorrect grammar somehow more offensive to you than being called a, how did he put it... oh yes, “bitchy ole woman”?
The thing is, many people, such as myself, use voice to text. If someone can't comprehend the meaning/intent behind the post is not my problem, its THERE problem hah.
Quoted from CLEllison:I can understand the hatred from those who JPOP screwed. But what I dont understand is why the "ill will" towards DR? Yeah yeah the bluster comments probably could've been left out, but being excited about your own product is cool too! If they release AIW damn straight I'm ordering one. Missing deadlines .... is it really that big of a deal? I also dont see them holding anyones money hostage (excluding the JPOP mess) so not trying to be an ass but seriously ask really why all the hate? And to the haters, will you actually refuse to purchase a game even if it's majorally out of this world awesome?
I think the main problem, is 3 fold. 1. Jpop ripped off a bunch of people. 2 AP hired Jpop, then realized early on it was a mistake. 3. DR hired Jpop and for whatever reason took on Zidware commitments, which end up delaying their own games and designs. Seems like poor use of funds and tonedeafness when it comes to a major problem . With that said, DR isn't looking for pre orders, so lets see some games!-
Quoted from branlon8:Grammar and spelling mistakes are an indication that people can‘t be bothered to proofread their posts.
True,
Or voice to text and figure people should be able to comprehend what is being conveyed.
Quoted from FlippinJB:I agree with everything you said there, Tranquilize, except the bit above. "Bob liked pinball but he played it like a fool." That's a compound sentence with a coordinating conjunction (two independent clauses with finite verbs) but doesn't really need a comma. IMHO anyway - it could be a UK/US difference thing. Potato/potato/etc.
deeproot - how about releasing some tasty information pronto, otherwise this thread will degrade further into grammar?!?!
To me, a comma should be in your example.
Quoted from pin2d:Hello all! So their has been some discussion on the deeproot article after the tour, and your of course open to you’re opinion on it! There up to quite a bit they’re to, definitely peeked my interest. Planning on an article to be released on TWIP in the next couple weaks!
Sooo, we have devolved into article releases from DR, since pin releases are not on the horizon! Lmao!
Quoted from Monk:I wish this thread would die until new DR Pinball news is released.
Drain it, thread is dead to you! So easy, even a caveman could do it!
Quoted from Chalkey:She's a fucking Martian what is wrong with you people?
Exactly I have no idea how people can be so critical about a cartoon LOL
Quoted from vicjw66:I prefer the Zidware art. Sure it’s cartoons, but there was something sexy about the characters that this deeproot alien seriously lacks.
I'd hit it.
Quoted from jorro:But that's not a standard!
Tag team?
Apparently. DeeprootMatt doesn't like us talking about having sex with the alien chick LOL
1 week later
Quoted from jj44114:Where are the moderators on this one. Please end it.
Why are you trying to censor Pinside? You dont like it, dont effing click on the topic. People making judgments on what other people should read or listen to stink. Do you work for DR?
Also, DR seemed like they were building up some good will, only to have that vanish and more, with one comment. Well on the way to becoming a dumpster fire!
Quoted from Honch:I just saw the same thing on another thread. Some guy cant take the negativity so he pleads with the moderator to close it down. He could have Just drained the damn thing already if it bothered his fragile sensibilities that much.
Because, he is victimized and MUST be heard. Simply taking matters into his own hands and draining/not clicking means people wont know he did it! Lives for likes and thumbsups!
Quoted from flynnibus:It’s been the center of the LE buying frenzy since Metallica...
Oh, good to know lol. I have a Met LE, and fortunately my buddy knew 3 months prior to the announcement it was coming, even though we had no idea what it would look like... Distro wanted $1000 that early so we were not in a frenzy. I can see how that happens though for sure.
Quoted from greenhornet:it is a shame there are so few pinball playing purists here. the majority come across as just art and toy collectors. its as if they are playing an entirely different game, hoping not to get stuck with a forgery.
[quoted image]
Yeah I find it odd that really fun games get slammed because of the poor animations or opinions of poor animations buy some people. I don't know one player who watches the back glass animations while they're playing the game . Maybe these people have eyes in their forehead and can look up and down at the same time I don't know. It's like a race car when people say it doesn't look like a show car. What is the point of the car it's to race down the track or around the track not to win car shows same thing with pinball. They are to be played and have fun not to look at and worry about video animations that do not affect gameplay.
Quoted from RobT:You are supposedly an attorney? This is complete nonsense. Unless I am missing the sarcasm?
No, I believe he actually meant it. If it would have been you or I, I would think he was joking, but since Ben has a history with Jpoop, it was a real threat.
Quoted from RobT:Ice, given your track record/experience of getting f*cked by various pinball schemes, I would think that your excitement would be held in check pending this actually happening.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...just how many times have you been fooled Ice?
He's a lawyer, he's gotta advise his clients of the best possible outcome for his clients. In terms of pinball, he is the client!
Quoted from wolfemaaan:So when are these machines coming out?
We'll let you know.
Quoted from Fulltilt:I hope by March, '20 we have some specifics of what's coming and hopefully have them shipping by then!! The modified agreement expires in July, '20.
Does it mention the extra modified agreement yet?
Quoted from makeusgreater:Deleted post
Those look cool! Not sure why the downvotes lol.
Quoted from Roostking:Poor guy got Kaps new shoes!!![quoted image]
Sorry y'all got offended!!!!
Quoted from EricHadley:I was offended
To help me better understand the error of my ways, please touch on this doll where you all were offended. "Holds up imaginary snowflake shaped doll". Or explain what was offensive. Thank you in advance. I have some deeprooted problems
Quoted from vicjw66:I wasn't offended, but it wasn't funny either. If your're going to post something divisive, it shout at least be funny.
As a penance, I tried to downvote myself. I guess you can't? Also, it tied in nicely with the robot chicken clip above it.
Also, to be better informed, I have asked the mods for a list of people who cannot be mocked. If they allow, I will post it!
Quoted from teekee:Divisive? Really? If you choose that this is divisive that's your problem...
Final update from me regarding who we can and cannot mock. I/we will not be given a list of those considered untouchable and of such elevated status/celebrity, they are above reproach by us commoners. Given my previous lack respect for those of elevated status/celebrity, I suspect I will be reported at some point in the future.
Lets see some pins deeproot!!
Quoted from DS_Nadine:"Magic Girl Home Edition"
I thought it already was, just a very very expensive and basic box of lights!
1 week later
Quoted from CLEllison:That's the beauty, they could service both types. Those who want full machines or those who would buy kits. As far as artwork goes ,they could easily make replaceable/swappable encased artwork. And to answer your question, no I am not an operator. However I'm good friends with a couple. They both agreed that if it meant a quick artwork change and simply unplugging, removing pf, inserting new one, plugging back in and a new USB with code theyd be onboard for a couple reasons.
1.) No lugging a machine back to the shop and or moving locations on a regular basis.
2.) Frees up money when they can't afford to buy a whole new machine and when the title stops earning. When I hear quotes like earning ~ $180 a month .... good lord.
3.) One would think the "hit" for depreciation on a "kit" would be much less than on a whole machine.
4.) The home market would benefit due to limited funds and/or limited space.
Still waiting on DP to actually participate in this thread.
Every time DP participates in this thread, its a public relations disaster. Better they just get games going, then participate.
Quoted from frolic:If part of their business model is to jump into the app store gaming market with a new IP, I say.... good luck with that.
That would be hilarious and suck at the same time, is that the people who are part of the settlement, or whatever you call it, get 2 free games from the AppStore!!! Recouping $19.98 of the original purchase price.
Quoted from jonesjb:Robert is on Pinside, yes? It would be good to hear whether they still plan to launch more games in 2019 than any other manufacturer.
Again, whenever he speaks, its a public relations nightmare. Best he just get the financing and best Stern, and JJP and AP in the market. Thus far, its been more Robert, less besting.
Quoted from flynnibus:The discussion was on 'why bother with the zidware liabilities and jpop'.
All the people deeproot brought in besides jpop... were not tied into the zidware mess... so they aren't really relevant to the discussion.
Robert wanted to extra some value from the zidware/jpop stinkpile... reasons he's sold everyone on 'good will'... which is lawyer speak for 'pre-emptive strike'
Definetly would have taken the cash!!
Quoted from Fulltilt:Last I looked this was a DeepRoot discussion thread. Not a Zidware solvency/resolution thread.
Doesnt Jpop work for DR? Didn't DR make a deal with former zidware customers? Seems like a good place to discuss.
Quoted from Tranquilize:Don't you think that the game being incomplete, as in, not even close to done, has a bearing on it being good or bad?
Not only is it incomplete, its got shots to no where and shots that cant be made. American Pinball dumped jpoop quick, why DR stuck with him, remains to be seen.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:badbilly27 Just ignore him (he's allways that positive) and ask, there's nothing to loose.
That made me lol.
1 week later
People, DR is not making physical pinball, at least to start! Making 2d apps to satisfy jpoop buyers, at 9.99 apiece. Then who knows.
Quoted from Fulltilt:Good, they have bad karma all over them.
Thanks for proving my point. When will DR be producing a physical game again, now that they don't even have cabs now? If you don't think DR is above delivering a game, which satisfies the obligation as an app, well I'd send in even more pre-order money... Can you scan and post your entire contract, does it ever say pinball machine as we know it? Serious question.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:People here actually played RAZA and it is not an app.
If you have interrest in this visit TWIP.
If you just want to write BS visit Facebook.
That said of course they may do apps since they have multiple studios.
Exactly, Occums razer is all about the simplest solutions usually the end solution. Apps for th masses first, then maybe, just maybe pins in 3 years.
Quoted from Fulltilt:I didn't give them any "pre-order" money... And have no plans to. Only shipping cost.
Good move!
Quoted from DS_Nadine:OMG troll elsewhere and get lost.
Jeff played the machines and described them. It's more focussed on mechs then usual.
Ok white wood, cost, designer, who's on software, music and video assets. You know, relevant information. Oh, there is a new pic of hybrid dinosaur! Yay.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:November 2019.
Ok, so Nov 2019. Thats that's the announce date/release date for DRs first pin?
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Sorry you meant "MOMMY PLZ FEED ME NOW I'M TO DUMB AND LAZY TO USE THE SPOON!!!
IN ADDITION I HATE MY LIFE AND LIKE TO MAKE EVERYONE SUFFER AROUND ME!!!" with that?
You troll, I get moderated, I see it coming. Good job.
If you're really interrested (it does not seem that way) just read the last TWIP post on deeproot, as I MAY HAVE MENTIONED.
Thanks for the info! Hoping for an awesome launch date!
BTW ya derp, here is DRs very own jpop showing off his whitewood. Irony.
thumb (resized).jpgQuoted from DS_Nadine:Stop talking to yourself.
But I'd like a My little Pony machine...[quoted image]
Of course you would. I mean, why wouldn't you pivot away from my posting of whitewood(completely invalidating your argument), pre release. The fact that its jpoop, who is running the show at dr, is just that much more ironic.
Anyway, so do you or DR have some semblance of a release plan?? You act like you are in the know.
Quoted from o-din:And I just bought a Ferrari for the price of a Fiat.
[quoted image]
SuperSick!
Quoted from Drewscruis:Is it just me or is wolfemaaan sound like kaneda's annoying younger sibling...
Hes a troll who should be banned.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:So are you under the impression Deeproot is a Ponzi Scheme and an illegitimate umbrella of companies? I'm confused on what point you're trying to make here.
Yes, you are confused. Get off DR jock without knowing the full story.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:You have 1 machine and curious what your purpose is to remain here? Maybe you should leave? Is there any positive reason you have for being here? If not, go somewhere else
One machine and infinitly more smarts than you. You clearly do not understand the difference between funding and revenue.
Also, I am DR target customer. Non brand loyal and looking for prices to be brought down. Hopefully they deliver.
Quoted from o-din:Even the worst of character designs start out as a sketch too.
And some sketchy pinball designers get jobs, making sketches.
Quoted from Fulltilt:It's like rubber-necking to look at that interstate pileup...
The thing is, its not a pile up yet. They still havent asked for pre-orders and have paid some people back for jpoops misdeeds, so Im still keeping an open, and hopeful mind!
Quoted from CLEllison:You apparently haven't owned or are familiar with a playfield cleared by Kruzman. Dimples are NOT normal.
And for the other folks saying Robert should keep quiet - I do absolutely 100% fully disagree. I think he should be giving updates. Who cares if he misses so called dead lines. Being up front and honest about progress "or lack thereof" makes no difference to those who are reasonable. He's human and some things are just out of anyone's control. Honesty and sincerity will bring the people. However making a product, charging an arm and leg for it and have it falling a part and not owning it and fixing it will drive the masses away. Still rooting for AIW.
Yea, because missing deadlines and being dishonest havent been a roadmap for 3 companies crashing and burning(customers $$$ in the past 10 years) , but doesnt matter to reasonable people?
Quoted from CLEllison:So giving back the money to those who requested it isn't enough? He didn't have to do it but he did and you still want to ride his ass? I'l assume you have no dog in this fight?
What fight? DR has no product to fight over lol. What they do have is the same dishonesty , bluster and promises that exposed and doomed 3 other companies to failure. Deny it at your own peril.
Quoted from fosaisu:Deeproot's silly announcements and blown deadlines don't bother me -- and I suspect many other people -- because deeproot, at least so far, isn't taking preorder money. How they spend their investors' money is between them and their investors. And if they lose some sales thanks to a series of premature announcements, they've failed to lean anything from JJP but it's still not my problem. Most of us will happily take a look at what they've got if and when they get a game to market.
As will I. Its just the fact some posters are so confident, they ignore history.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:That would mean that they have to be further behind in November then they were 2 - 3 months ago...
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/the-deeproot-tour-whitewood-wonderland-and-the-cart-before-the-horse-3/
So basically: No.
Is it likely to set up a line in that 4 months inbetween and have dozens of games ready for shipping when showing a finished game in November?
Not likely, but not impossible and I'd bet that is the goal.
But they never promised that. They only promised a prototype,... wich allready was in quite a good state months ago.
Ever the optimist.
Quoted from o-din:[quoted image]
O-Din come on man. Its 100 pages of a whole lot of nothin!
Quoted from Roostking:O-Din come on man. Its 100 pages of a whole lot of nothin!
Which begs the question, is this a record that we are almost 5000 responses deep in a pinball thread, with no actual pinball games to discuss??? Well Played DR.
Quoted from Robotoes:Man this is amazing. Legitimately one of the few reasons I have left to check-in on pinside every now and then.
Kewl! See ya next time!
Quoted from JodyG:Fiberglass reinforced plywood that trailers and box truck bodies are made from wouldn't dent with a hammer. Also, phenolic resin sheets are amazingly durable as well.
Wrong. The PF is steel and the balls are wood. That'll "flip" the industry on its head!
2 weeks later
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Said it before...nothing to see here until November.
2022
2 weeks later
1 week later
Quoted from cjmjmm2006:Excited to see what is revealed and what is the timeline for the release of games. Hoping it's only a small wait as we have a lot of interested customers.
Why would you even mention DR to customers at this point? What are they interested in?
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:The first game is going to be called “Tax Shelter”
Games 2 and 3 will be chapter 7 and 11!
BTW Im not a bankruptcy lawyer, so I shall not cease, nor desist.
Quoted from adol75:It’s far beyond. They are so innovative that they’ve out innovated themselves.
So innovative, that they are suing themselves for patent infringement!! They cant keep up...
1 week later
Quoted from PinMonk:My biggest question is why are they using badly printed filament 3D printed parts on their show machines? Sure, rapid prototype them in-house on filament printers, but use nicer, higher-res resin printers for the parts you're bringing to the show. None of the parts are that large, most of them could have been done on a $400 or less resin printer. Buy 5 or 6 of them for $2-3 grand and print a machine's worth of high-res 3D parts that look nice in half a day, then use the other half of the day to print backup parts in case some break. One day, 6 better printers, much better reveal first impression contribution would be made. Why didn't they do this?
I heard the game was a "prototype"?
1 week later
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:Yup unreal
For the record, I didnt delete.
Mod team, what is the maximum # of "bumps" one can have before the post is censured? Is this posted in the rules? "Not 10, but more than 5?"
Not trying to be an arse, but can anyone refer me to the "Max # of bumps" Rule?
Thanks in advance. I await your information!!!
Quoted from Mr68:Your argument is akin to a guy before a traffic judge for speeding 14 miles an hour over the limit. He wants the ticket thrown out because there is no written statute for 14 or any incremental number.
Over bumping was just an expression the moderator chose to explain that specific incident. If you want a specific rule violation, it would most likely fall under the Broken Record category. And even that I would guess is one of the implied rules as it would be impossible to detail every possible scenario.
Just deal with your punishment or open up a moderator feedback thread. You've been moderated on Pinside several times now to know how things work.
Sooo, no max bump rule then.
Anyway, back on topic. Looking forward to seeing some new pins!
1 month later
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Didn't they?
You can't buy anything from them yet.
So why should they do marketing?
You're buying stuff the others market... as soon as you can buy it.
Deeproot will start to market their stuff when it's ready.
What're you thinking this countdown clock for "deeproot Launch Media & VIP Information" event is?
You're (not you, people here in generall) basically saying:
I BET THEY'RE ALLREADY COMPLETELY BROKE WITH ALL THAT INVESTOR MONEY, BUT I'M GENIUS, THEY SHOULD SPEND ADDITIONAL MILLIONS INTO MARKETING FOR A PRODUCT THAT DOESN'T EXIST YET!!!
You're all pretty genius.
Um, anything produced by DR, be it art they have shown in regards to pinball, or the trailers, is marketing.
Quoted from ufotofu:I'm definitely sincere! Deeproot has no track record, aside from the well documented bluster and lies of their empty suit CEO. To their credit, they seem to have hired a lot of really great talent (aside from Jpop), so for that reason I hope they're successful. Maybe their launch event will happen, maybe it will deliver everything they've promised, but traditionally that isn't the case with Deeproot. I'm expecting they'll show the same two prototype machines from the Houston Expo, a slideshow (but no working examples) of their "innovations", and promise a release schedule starting in late 2020 (which will never be met).
I think your Heighway Pinball comparison is appropriate, though. Andrew basically sailed off on a yacht after running that company into the ground, screwing over everyone else in the process. RAZA will probably end up in the same place as Alien- a cool-looking game which is a nightmare to operate and receives zero support once Robert Mueller gets a chance to run away with everyone's money. Assuming it actually gets released, which- it won't.
Dont change the subject. Your initial post says the event will be canceled, nothing else. So again, why are you so sure it wont happen. Are you in the know, and know something?
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Worst speculation post, like ever.
Special K, calling Special K!!
2 weeks later
Quoted from thedarkknight77:I personally was rooting for a Deeproot, but I no longer believe a damn thing that Robert says. He reminds me of a fake politician that spins the truth to suit his needs. Deeproot will go nowhere and it has failed before it started like so many before them. The very people working for the company know this and are just happy to milk the cow while they can.
Thats a fairly broad brush there. It almost sounds like you are saying the employees believe or know this is a scam.
Quoted from pinballaddicted:All good. That is what I love about Pinside, there are plenty of people that know everything about everything so I will admit I am wrong just for you.
However FYI.
I asked Gary Stern his production percentages the last time he was in Australia so I have a pretty good idea what they are. I also asked him what percentages went to each different market. He was happy to give percentages and is not happy to give out numbers. It is not my place to give out the info he gave me. You seem to already have all your own answers so why bother asking anyone else?
This is also a Deep Root thread.
What a cop out. Either defend your position with what Gary said, or quit fronting. Every barcade I go to has Pros.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Drewscruis:I see it now, a RAZA in the background, and then a pile of tablets running their latest virtual pinball with multiple tables....
Thats what I speculated previously, half jokingly, that the "pins" were going to be app based.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:When I think pinball, I know I think feces-tainted public generic soda dispenser!
Come on lets make lemonade out of lemons! When you think feces tainted public generic soda dispenser, you can now think pinball. Oh wait...
Quoted from wrb1977:I do appreciate the explanation even though I did know what he meant. I was hoping the wolfmaaaaaan himself would enlighten us by explaining his childlike antics.
It was Ferret who downvoted.. Wonder why?
Quoted from kermit24:I'm not sure why everyone gets so butt-hurt when someone downvotes you. It simply means that they disagree. Nothing more than that. An internet forum is a place where people agree and disagree. Don't take everything so personally.
Oh I agree, i gaf if someone downvotes me, but Ferret seems pretty easy going, very helpful on Alien and Oktoberfest. Doesnt seem like he would downvote a competitor, but could be wrong.
Quoted from CLEllison:Gosh darn it, I was really hoping there would be more info on the other releases by now. AIW has always been a dream theme for me. What really surprises me is that we live in a age of leakers and we haven't seen anything leaked yet. It's actually shocking to me. And why doesn't DR post updates? Who cares if it's not moving along at a speed they talked about. I for one dig humility, it shows sincereity ya know? C'mon DR let's see some new stuff!
Comey's not in charge! Hoping for some good things from them!
Quoted from wrb1977:Deeproot’s silence and the fact that there have been no leaks is quite impressive...adds to the anticipation in my opinion. 17 days and you are going to see some new stuff!
Maybe nothing to leak, or what they have is not leak worthy!!
Quoted from russdx:Did deeproot develop and release this virus just to get out of the reveal?
China did, to make us forget about HK. Also to get rid of seniors, since they do not contribute to the party anymore. Cost cutting measure!!
Quoted from Tranquilize:"It is unfortunate that the unprecedented COVID-19 (Chinese coronavirus)"
I'm assuming Robert wrote this. Only he would be dumb enough to include racism in the message. Fox News started this BS.
According to the Chinese, its was the US Army!!!!
Soo, whats it like walking about ready to be super offended. You must be a joy to hang with lol!
Too bad about all these cancellations though, real people are going to be affected by a virus that was cooked up in a Chinese lab, to divert attention from HK, that got out of control.. Or did it???
Quoted from RCA1:O.K. You are a racist.
Have you even been to these open air markets in asia? You can buy freshly skinned dog, cash and carry!
Quoted from chad:Seen footage of them . Pretty scary , but I understand and realize other countries enjoy other foods. No time to remove fur , burn it off...
Oh yea, dont get me wrong, dog meat, when properly prepared and seasoned is quite tasty...
2 weeks later
Quoted from Brijam:Oh I’ve looked. Judging by the makeup of the team, their website and the LinkedIn of that bizdev guy I posted weeks ago, it could have been an attempt at building an agency. Very light on project management though.
Too bad we don’t have more concrete information. It could be money problems, it could be a realization that at best you can expect 20% margin on agency work (although paying salaries and bennies at top market would cut severely into that), or that agency work is actually quite hard to come by when you’re based in Utah. It could be a decision to focus on pinball instead.
Or simply, that pinball is hard.
Quoted from wesman:This thread got weird.......er.
Its got everything, except anything related to deeproot Pinball!
Quoted from iceman44:Nice jab when things are down and people’s jobs are at stake. Any other jokes?
I really don’t think it’s entertaining at all when investors are losing money and people are getting laid off
Pathetic
Quoted from iceman44:Nice jab when things are down and people’s jobs are at stake. Any other jokes?
I really don’t think it’s entertaining at all when investors are losing money and people are getting laid off
Pathetic
I love seeing the arrogant rich get fucked once in awhile. They are stupid investors if they knew they were investing in a pinball startup
Quoted from o-din:It's nice when the ordinary peasants can celebrate a moment of glory, isn't it?
Pathetically, yes haha
Quoted from flynnibus:"RAZA was never meant to be launch title" -- Then why did they make it first? His bailout of JPOP customers wasn't a promise to deliver RAZA... they simply promised 'deeproot' titles.
From his original FAQ - "The Goodwill Terms refer to Claimant's choice of a deeproot Tech machine generically. deeproot Tech plans to have multiple machines available for selection by the Delivery Date"
Upset if he has to make a lot of them? Why would the business guru make a title he never plans on make enough on to make good money on it? This sure sounds like rewriting history to me. "Oh RAZA isn't going to sell well? Thats fine.. I never wanted it to sell alot of them anyways..." OHHKAYY.. *rolleyes*
Doesn't want to 'clog production' with RAZA... yet in the same hour says he could make 9 titles a year... but doesn't have any other titles ready to go either. So what's it competing with?
Supply chain issues with China doesn't explain why the game isn't done - Didn't he chastise others in the past for shipping incomplete games?
A theme even bigger than Harry Potter... Yes, we have the best themes... the best! Everyone knows it... we have bigly themes...
'the person that posted here..' - I guess it wasn't an april fools joke huh? Funny how he needs lawyers involved instead of just saying "not true.." - why is it so complex to address?
"* Team ready to turn on production at a moments notice." -- lol... like we've never heard that before. It's not STARTING that is hard... it's doing it well. Everyone remember when Heighway 'started' production?
Look, not being able to ship games right now due to china... I get. But not having your game done? There is no one to blame but themselves. Just remember... he entered contracts to have MULTIPLE games *DONE* and ready to ship no later than June 2019.
Since Robert doesnt want to make more than 500 of RAZA, maybe its the cheap entry game to get the JPOP guys paid off, then the real fun/innovation begins?
2 weeks later
Quoted from pin2d:I asked about this and was told their provider bricked the server and it is taking forever to fix.
Multi millions in investments and they dont have warm backups? Scary!
4 weeks later
Quoted from Fulltilt:What?? That's a fairly egocentric question. There are quite a few of us who actually have some skin in the game that care.
Should have gotten your $$$ when you had the chance. DR is in deepshit.
1 week later
Quoted from o-din:Better than ramping down, I guess.[quoted image]
Deeproot may end up wishing the downramp was this short..
1 week later
Quoted from RCA1:Deeproot knows they can start selling games without giving tours and putting on a show, right?
Doesnt appear that way, unless they really dont have much to show, which is probably the real problem.
1 week later
Quoted from Lounge:This thread is almost funny..... almost.
That post above yours is pretty funny!!
1 month later
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Yeah I don’t think that rack is big enough. Stop kowtowing to political correctness!!!!
Thats the spirit!
2 weeks later
Quoted from iceman44:Put a f ing game out there with all that $$ spent and the last several years FFS
I’m regretting my decision to forego the Jpop payment now. Yeah that was stupid on my part
Call it for what it is. Absolutely terrible execution thus far
The 575 fund is another story. Good luck with that.
The whole thing is turning into a monster shit show
"Turning?" When wasn't it, a shit show? 5 days of deeproot? Cease and desist on bheck? Groundbreaking reveal of RAZA? I could go on.
Quoted from greenhornet:deeproots RM needs a new mantra :
"my way, or the heighway".
the Heighway is my may!
Quoted from ThisNotes4U:Maybe they have been F***ng with us and have thousands of ultra modern pins ready to go. Three or four titles let's say. Go DEEPROOT!!!!
Yea, lets spend millions of dollars on physical hardware that people may not want. Thats not how its done.
Quoted from Yelobird:Isn't that the gamble virtually EVERY product manufactured faces in business?? Haven't seen Apple release 5 phone units to market to see what we think? lol Sometimes you win, sometimes not but its the gamble of business.
Deeproots, not Apple. I do want deeproot to succeed..
Quoted from DS_Nadine:First time I hear that, usually it’s the opposite.
What‘s the scoop?
Havent you noticed, all they release is artwork..
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Robert is the guy outside the arena selling homemade shirts right now. He hasn't entered the main event yet.
JPOP is selling counterfeit tickets to the match.
Quoted from NevadaNutJob:In the blown up pic you can clearly make out a dark birds head in a macabre style . The next release will be Edgar Allen Poe’s The Raven . Case solved
I see Mad Max!!!
Quoted from Waxx:I hope you are just as hard on JJP and CGC. JJP started in 2011 and they had a very rough first 6 years. MMR was announced in 2013 but it has been a slow drip from them and the machines are already fully designed.
JJP) 5 games in 9 years
CGC) 3 in 7 years
Lest we forget American Pinball. 3 pins faster to market than anyone other than Stern, if I am correct? It can be done, and hell, AP initially took on JPOP, then cut him loose. Its amazing he was picked up by anyone at that point.
Anyway...
Quoted from gweempose:In their defense, I don't think AP had any idea what they were stepping into when they hired Jpop. They were not pinball people, and they weren't aware of the history. What excuse did Deeproot have?
Oh, absolutely. Once they learned of JPOP and his ripping off of the community, they dropped him like a bad habit. Not sure what DP excuse is.
Quoted from Napoleon:*****ROLLS EYES******
I was like, yaa, thats some mental gymnastics right there.
Quoted from iceman44:JP and Elvira are two of the best games ever released. STH is great too.
I'd say Stern is crushing it. Avengers looks like another Elwin home run.
IF DR can even come close to what Stern is putting out then they will have success.
Competition is a good thing.
To deny what Stern is accomplishing right now just means you aren't paying any attention!!
If they would get the QA under control, they would really be killing it.
Quoted from BrewinBombers:If they artificially inflate the prize of RAZA / AIW then they can claim to be delivering a lot more value to the folks who settled for new games, even if it's not what they might otherwise charge.
How do you artificially inflate the price?
Quoted from Makakka:We have an unseen paradoxon this month that can knock both your eyes blue. First one AIQLE totally out of the blue just look at the subs many stated they didnt have the money but had to buy anyway just had to buy this stunner le many with the money reserved for
1. RAZA
or
2. GnR
Im 1. For 2 look at the AIQ subs many already crying they dont have any money left for GnR bc of AIQ but have to buy GnR anyway if its awesome which Kaneda testifies. So yes I am victim of this paradoxon but will by far not be the only one. I think GnR will inflict even more damage than RAZA on the AIQ front if its as great as Kaneda says.
I doubt more than 5 people have money laying in wait to spend on RAZA. There are certainly more people waiting for the release, but not many withholding other purchases.
Quoted from Valorguy:So this is the Deeproot Pinball thread, correct?
...SO many SO far off topic.
What Deeproot topic shall we discuss?
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Some do. Many more than you know.
I was going to say, I do. That means I'm rich AF lol.
Quoted from wesman:Side tangent. If they do want outside distro help, does that infer the number of RAZA stock will NOT be super duper limited, as in under 200 or sumthin'?
I hope it's a good bit over 500, so these things are super difficult to get down the road, or are sold out immediately or stupidly overpriced.
I'd be up for a 5K RAZA...maybe, but not a 7K and up one.
RAZA was getting made to get the Zidware people paid off I thought. Are you only interested in possible rarity? Thats when the real pins are supposed to be coming.
Quoted from toyotaboy:You met "salesman John". You should meet angry John, the one gets annoyed when you email him several times for feedback after offering free help. Or you should meet revengeful John, when he sues his buyers that put down money.
He is talking about Jersey Jack , not Con Job John...
Quoted from CrazyLevi:ET has been a famously successful IP property for gaming (the type of historic hit that any new game company would want to evoke!) so I'd say you are probably right!
Soo, your saying we might be able to find some ET pinball machines buried in a dump somewhere in 20 years!
Quoted from Pahuffman:Not a very funny one. Wasted a lot of people's time.
I think its freaking hilarious!
Its pinball, after all!
Quoted from zenbone:i am hopeful the lockdown touch screen can be converted to play like Candy Crush or Tsum Tsum... just to keep the machine relative after what i am assuming will be a triumphant and incredibly successful launch.
of course if it had a sarcasm meter that would probably a great innovation too!
Exactly!! Ok, you played the pinball game for a buck, want to play Minecraft on the Pinbar(TM) for 20 microtransactions for 2 minutes!! "SURE!!!!!" as the kids get the phones out, to interact with the Pinbar(TM). It was then, that deeproot(TM) pinball died.
And something I predicted years ago(The APP, I didnt see the Pinbar(TM) coming). Those JPOP buyers get a Pinbar(TM) itself. They connect it to a phone and use it with the RAZA(TM) App, which comes free, with the Pinbar(TM). Normally $5.99.. There, now the JPOOP(TM) guys are paid off!
Quoted from nwpinball:I weirdly like the Food Truck concept, I also think it may be appealing to younger folks than old guy rock bands and 30 year old movies. It seems like Deeproot is making a concerted effort to go after younger players and lure new people into playing pinball, maybe that's where they see their market growth since Stern already has the 50 year old white guy demographic down. That's my demographic, but I see value in creating your own market and bringing in newer generations of pinball fans.
So, hard metal edges and easily breakable touchscreens that might very well render the game dead. Expected from this demographic i suppose, where planned obsolescence is now 2 years(smartphone) before you are tech-shamed. It was good they delayed the launch.
Like many have mentioned, whats under the glass is what counts...
Quoted from NoQuarters:I'm with Levi on this. Pretty much everything they did is stupid. The "innovations" are goofy. That's one of the crappiest hot messes I have seen. The came up with stuff just to have new crapola. Might as well put square tires on a car.
The only thing stupid I might like, IF it was done right, are the dumb themes, with forethought, and IF done by another company that can actually produce a game. That's even a flyer, but a funny theme or an off the wall title "MIGHT" work if executed correctly with an experienced smart manufacturer. Even that's a big stretch. Just trying to find something to sort of like.
They haven't even tackled the hardest part. A factory line with workers and processes that work, and so on. Too busy designing the Edsel pinball machine.
Soo, JPOOP is the Edsel of the pinball world? Nah, Edsel at least wasnt a fraud. deeproot regrets that decision....
Quoted from CrazyLevi:It doesn't look like they actually have a license. Sounds like they have "a concept."
So many concepts. I don't currently have the Harry Potter license yet either but I've provided a concept.
I do love me some fuckin' Who. More rock pins the better. Everybody says they are sick of them but they sell.
I think the reason you aren't seeing any excitement is because nobody believes Deep Root is ever actually going to produce a Who pin, "unique mechs" or no.
Seems like this would have been one of the first pins mentioned, not an afterthought behind dueling religions (Unless they have a location specific setting, could kill on route!!!) and a food trunk. Confidence level at less that zero.
Quoted from Pinballlew:Not a dig but license what technology? The lockdown bar? It’s my speculation that the lockdown bar is the reason they delayed the launch. I haven’t touched one but it looks painful in its current state.
There had to be more. They simply could have said this is a prototype, the edges will be smoothed and rounded and carried on.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:You would. That's what I said four days ago.
Makes you wonder who is making the decisions around there and who is getting listened to, and whether or not management is listening to the advice of employees.
Remember, there was that Glassdoor or Linkedin review of Deeproot. The employee said the "Owner" just made decisions on a whim.... So it sounds like its going to be Roberts way, and/or the Heighway(Pun intended, this will probably crash as Heighway did)
Quoted from littlecammi:Plug it in and pray it works.
And if it doesnt, that is Gods will. You cant call support!
Quoted from John_I:I assume the shooter lane is shorter and plunger is longer so the view of the ball isn't blocked by the (expletive deleted) touch screen?
I would not assume anything at this point, unless its a negative assumption, then I would go with that...
Quoted from DS_Nadine:It‘s mostly the same guys over and over again (that includes myself) but yes, I guess they stirred a lot of interrest.
From some initial „it looks different“ shock people mostly got intrigued.
Give the lockbar some rounded edges, cut the Pinbars glitchy software features to a working minimum (you can still update this later), and get this thing on the line.
I'm only here because I knew it was going to be a shit show when they hired JPOOP. I was not wrong!
Quoted from Viggin900:Funny getting people excited over dozens of future titles within the next year when they havn't even made the first.
Whos getting excited?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I’m going to find it hard to get excited about any pinball machine from here on in that doesn’t have a broiler attached.
Ill take a smoker attachment!
Quoted from j_m_:agreed. hence why ford (and other auto companies) have gone back and replaced most of those touchscreen controls back to physical switches. too many customers complaining about losing the ability to do anything when the touchscreen stops working.
apparently, you've never seen the year with out a santa claus. what the colors blue and red represent is pretty evident
[quoted image]
Im in this boat with my POS GE fridge that seems to be a unicorn to get parts for. My front control panel is out, thus I cant change the temp of my freezer/fridge. There used to be little dials that always worked!
Quoted from John_I:Camera zoom or not, the opto board needs to fit completely underneath the lip on the side of the ramp in order to fit in most places they will need them. Having a connector stick out an inch to the side is definitely sign of a prototype. As for the split ramp. No matter how well it fits, there will always be a transition making it play wonky instead of buttery.
I don't mind plastic ramps, but I am surprised that the plastic ramp police who like to bug Stern so much haven't come out in this thread.
Because we dont actually think they will produce a game, so for once, we will not bitch about something we havent seen in production yet.
Quoted from Seraph:That may be the most amusing and appropriate misspelling I've ever seen.
Learn something new every day!
Quoted from razorsedge:I know at least the backbox display is a very common display size and aspect ratio.
Probably the same goes for the lockbar touchscreen I would say, surely would have made it a more reasonable size if they were using custom displays ...
People have said these touchscreens are the same dimensions that come on slot machines. If so, they should not be hard to replace.
Quoted from ForceFlow:Heighway I could understand since they wanted to make a universal cabinet for swapping games. That actually had a purpose.
All this extra noodling with the cabinet that zidware (JPop) did and now deeproot is doing seems kind of unnecessary. I think deeproot should seriously be focusing on playfield and code and getting a game out the door. You don't play the cabinet, after all.
Its unbelievable how closely this deeproot fiasco mimics jpops theft a few years ago. Jpop must have way more say then we think he does...
Quoted from Bublehead:Would we be talking this much about DR if they had put RAZA in a butter cabinet with decent artwork, a nice topper, a few "innovations" like the Bally juke box glass system and maybe the auto leveling, left Pinbar in the lab, and showed 50 workers on a line putting parts on a playfield, wiring node boards or whatever they are going to use, and had a shipping dock full of cardboard boxes with DR plastered all over them and shipping labels addressed to "early adopters", or better still, any names off the Zidware F'ed Over list? I tthink if it was me I would have names like P. Lawlor and G. Stern on the shipping labels and see who notices...
Im not following..
Quoted from Bublehead:Controversy brings eyeballs and ears to a party... Having a vanilla flavored "Normal" pinball reveal would not have generated this many posts... we would treat it like API's Hot Wheels... just saying as a counter point to all the "controversy" and drama this whole trip through Adventureland has been...
Yea, I got that part, but there towards the end...Good points though, and to answer the question. No...
Quoted from pinball_keefer:This singled-out specific statement is demonstrably untrue with 2 caveats: a) from your perspective, the evidence is anecdotal; b) I grant your overall point that it would take way more examples than I'm aware of for the CBA to make sense.
Some things are obviously true, and that is one of them. I would bet anything that not one person thought "I really love the theme, the pin shoots well, but that service menu is just way to clunky for me to consider a Stern purchase"
That has happened never.
Quoted from BobSacamano:Everyone is carrying around a Pinbar(tm) in their pants pocket. What reason is there to bolt one into the BOM of each game other than "oooh flashing lights"?
I still say those who are getting RAZA as part of the JPOOP settlement are only getting the PainBar(tm) that can connect to the RAZA mobile app on their phone!
Quoted from Yelobird:We need to go back to reels and bells! Then the world of pinball will be safe again. You Really have a hard on for DR and/or change.
Change, for the sake of change, doesnt mean its a good change. dr has obviously bit off more than they can chew, didnt consult real pinball people(outside of the org) and just like JPOOP previously, just keep working on small little details that get in the way of production. At least its dr money being wasted this time. Going to reels might actually help dr getting something rolling, no pun intended.
Quoted from pinball_keefer:IMO, you are thinking solely from a personal homeowner perspective and not an operator's "I need some piece (and I don't care what it is) to throw on location" perspective. Understandable, but my personal experience deals with the latter. I stand behind my statement.
So you, or people you know, have declined buying a pin from Stern because of the service menu?
Quoted from pinball_keefer:To be totally fair to your left nut, your assertion was that someone who really wanted the game and liked how it played wouldn't NOT get it, and I agreed with you, though maybe not explicitly. That is not what I said regarding the types who passed.
No, my assertion is that if someone liked the theme, liked the play and wanted to buy, but didnt due to the service menu. You stated you, or people you know, have done exactly that. I find that hard to believe, but Ill take your word. What game did you turn down, or have you not bought any Sterns?
Quoted from TreyBo69:Honestly, I don't think it would take an incredible salesmen to show off a JJP and a Stern side by side, and for the consumer to notice the attention to detail that JJP puts into their game. Stuff like a nice menu system or manual. It's little stuff that adds up
Ok now that I can see. But it sounds like this person has not bought any Sterns, simply because of the service menu.
I had one of these bad boys back in the day. Greet car that had no problem with Wyoming snow. It also was also the only car that would start in the mornings on those -10 days. I jumpstarted countless neighborhood cars with it. Left it at the bus station in Oceanslime, Ca when i got out of the USMC in 1996. About 10 years ago, I get a letter telling me the state had auctioned off the car lol. I present to you, the Mercury Lynx
40e575c7-715e-4cf7-ad7e-f2a719d6bfd1 (resized).jpegQuoted from waveman:I like the turn this thread has taken. Maybe we can convince RM to start making cars
[quoted image]
Dont be so sure, if history is any indication, they will attempt to reinvent the wheel. Car launches when we are flying hovercraft. Late to market, again!
Quoted from o-din:To stay on topic this time, I guess we can start talking more in depth about Deeproot's upcoming title Food Truck. Modes, mods, and of course
[quoted image]
141a68242c4a2140cfab5f70df4a3df7 (resized).jpg
Two dream themes, in one?
I'd also like to see pics of some of the most way out food trucks you can find that might possibly even find their way into the game. BTTF. Back to the foodtruck
[quoted image]
Quoted from Warzard:What are you doing in here? You’re the super fun guy, one man show ?
You’re not a whiner for sure: you’re the clown here. At least you’re not interested by Deeproot, but only by yourself.
What is it about dr that you are interested in?
Ok all you peeps wanting the car stuff shut down, where are you? What modes, or opinions, or themes do you want to see out of dr?
Ok, can dr get RAZA out of the way. Food Truck might be a thing. In game buys where you actually grub hub food truck food in real life!
Quoted from o-din:[quoted image]
I think we should start a pinball company and produce Food Truck (tm), seems to be some good ideas flowing, and pinball is easy, after all.
Quoted from Dr-pin:After yesterdays reveal, this is very puzzling to me.
I wouldn´t contemplating going raza over gnr, even if i were deaf.
The games are seas and centuries apart.
Yea I have no idea why people cling onto this perception that dr is releasing anything any time soon, if ever. dr is dead people, unless they show some actual production happening. NOT another half baked box of lights does not count. Production.
Quoted from thechakapakuni:[quoted image]
That makes perfect sense. I have been looking for TVs lately, and they sure do seem cheap. You read the reviews and people mention the google bullshit and that you cant even set the tv up if you dont agree. WTF is that.
Anyone have any relevant news about dr, since some people cant see to deal emotionally with off-topic discussion.
Quoted from jwilson:One thing that stands out to me now after seeing the GNR release is how flimsy RAZA looks. GNR looks solid and RAZA kinda looks like if I blew on it hard it would fall over. It's probably the tiered backbox.
I had the same reaction regarding TBL. $12500 for that, or for GnR CE. Unless you really love the TBL theme, for $12500, you are getting a much better experience with GnR
As far as dr. anybody have any relevant news, so as to not piss off the off-topic police.
Quoted from Rondogg:I can't wait for the Old Testament promo, "Based on the #1 best selling book of ALL TIME! This isn't Pinball evolution, it's PINBALL REVOLUTION!"
Pinball REVELATION!
Quoted from tacshose:The only Deeproot game I’m interested in is if they took over Alien production. RAZA looks like untested shit.
They dont have any production.
Quoted from wrb1977:You very well may be right but how do you know that?
Its a given. But if they are already producing a pin that doesn't work, with "Features" nobody wants, dr is in even worse shape than imagined.
Quoted from LeonSpinkx:Except that's New Testament.
I'm guessing dr had a "Come to Jesus" moment!!
Quoted from iceman44:The reason I accepted the agreement Kim was to support pinball and they were local
Whatever happens I’m cool with it
Their first reaction is to hit you when they feel threatened. That’s not gonna fly with me. Especially when it’s so misguided
Live up to YOUR agreements and no problems
Put some games out, quit blaming everybody and everything else and things will work out
No good deed goes unpunished...
Quoted from yancy:Yeah I have a hard time rooting for either side of a Texas loudmouth lawyer spat.
LOL
Quoted from frolic:They didn't do it out of kindness. It was an attempt to rehab jpop's toxic reputation. But that was botched, like everything else.
They could have NOT hired jpop and NOT continued with the zidware games that harmed tons of pinheads. But they did, and they get everything that goes with it.
Pretty much sums it up
"But that was botched, like everything else."
Quoted from wrb1977:I’m personally enjoying the silence from deeproot...crickets...perfect...just how it should be until they have something I can actually buy! I honestly don’t want to hear another peep out of them until I can order RAZA and have it show up on my doorstep within two weeks of ordering as they promised many moons ago.
Thats what we've been saying since 3 "gone silents" ago. They will do just enough to stir the pot again. They cant help themselves. Still hope they are successful though..
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Still cracking up about the Pinbar.
Innovation!!!
Makes you wonder what they have been reviewing and redoing based on feedback. Have they reached out to other heavyweights in the industry, outside of dr for honest opinions and feedback? Doubtful, but if they intend to see this through, something must be happening..
Quoted from jonesjb:I think Yukon Yeti sounds most interesting. Whitewater is one of my favorite pins, so a sequel could be quite good.
I'm liking the potential in Food Truck and its integration with the Pinbar(tm). I'm hoping the Pinbar(tm) will allow me to actually order a burrito from a real life food truck. How sick would that be!
Quoted from benheck:I also worked on Rob Zombie (script, storyboarding, code overhauls) Alice Cooper (core "mansion travel" rule set, some scripting, storyboards) and have been helping a lot with their next game as well (prototyping, mechanical engineering)
Why wouldnt ya be busy!
I actually came back to this thread to throw shade at dr, since the RZ thread is just as active as this perfectly titled, "next misadventure in pinball" Imagine what Ben and co could have done with RZ if they had ten million as a baseline budget.
Quoted from benheck:Hey I used to think he was cool. Still remember first time I played Theater of Magic.
But you're only as good as your last gig and the last 10 years have been a joke. All these companies are like women becoming a guy's 3rd, 4th or 5th wife and thinking "I'll be the one to change him!
Brutal takedown!
Quoted from spinal:Should hire George Gomez for $750,000 per year for 5 year contract with 3 years guaranteed. Go with his opinion and make some games. Robert would save millions over that period of time and it would probably be enough cash for George to walk (for retirement) - everyone wins.
Except those who need after purchase support..
Quoted from Lounge:So nothing then..... mmm k
Maybe tomorrow.
Eh, id go with maybe not, but this thread is still fun.
Now back on track to keep the topic police on point.
Food Truck Multiball Fried Cheese mode? Select 1 of 6 cheeses(Fumanda Cheese is selectable in Adult mode only), age to its perfection(in pinball time) shoot the shedder for insta-jackpot, or go for fried perfection, aged and point wise, with the insta-frypot-multiball. You know, the whole enchilada! Imagine ordering food from the Pinbar(tm). Yes Ive mentioned it before, but that is my (TM) idea. Food ordering while playing.
Quoted from o-din:Nice hat Levi!
I'm still marveling at the special effects in those old Chuckwagon ads.
That shit was tight back in the day!
Quoted from o-din:The 80s might have the top TV ad of all time.
I didnt even know what drugs were, until pinball told me not to do them!
don't use drugs (resized).JPGQuoted from kermit24:Ready for what line?
As Met would say. The End of the Line.. Game over
Quoted from noitbe1:Where did you got those infos? End of the year is soon... why not showing a working prototype until then?
Sarcasm my friend. DR is not shipping anything, anytime soon. Not the end of this year, not the end of next year. You get the point.
EDIT, so that was a real thing lol. It just keeps getting worse.
Quoted from yancy:At first I was like, "no it doesn't," but I guess you mean the raptor gate? Lol, what a hill to die on. Glad I didn't deprive myself of owning & playing maybe the greatest pin of all time because a standup target is two targets wide. Actually looks better mono, gives the impression of like, an actual gate. "World under glass" as the zealots say.
You could always get a pro and drink yourself to sleep every night to forget you're missing the gate.
Gategate?
Quoted from wamonkey:So - this thread goes on and on and nothing is ever announced. It should be called the random pinside thread to talk about everything....
I think this is sad -
Careful, the off-topic police will get ya!
Quoted from Cheeks:I'll be SHOCKED (and very disappointed) if even a fraction of that dialog is in the game. Aren't they creating a parallel graphic novel or something stupid? I think this dialog is just the playout of the story, not something taken verbatim from the game.
Regarding the break in action, games that give you an either/or choice or the opportunity to "buy" something have always brought the game to a "screeching halt" as you call it. Stargate has Trade Quartz, TOTAN has that choice from the Bazaar, and many other examples across tons of really good games. Hell, every game that has a Mystery award takes the same amount of down time for dramatic effect. The fact they're putting the choice on the Pinbar doesn't make it any worse than making choices with the flipper buttons, which we've been doing for many years. Now, if you need to listen to a bunch of BS dialog leading up to that choice, then we have the problem you're talking about (which would be exasperated if the dialog sucks, as you point out).
I'm not campaigning for the Pinbar, but let's only cast shade where it's warranted.
Its warranted. All shade, all day.
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