How about Alex Haley's Roots - that wood be a deeproot. Kunta Kinte ball escape. Chicken George mode, etc.
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Quoted from Wolfmarsh:I'm as skeptical of deeproot as anyone, but I'm willing to watch the thing play out.
Skeptical also - watching, but not real closely.
You know how the saying goes : If it sounds too good to be true...
1 month later
Quoted from pin2d:deeproot Pinball's launch has been postponed - find the details here:
https://thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-launch-postponed/
Somehow I'm not surprised. Have to remain skeptical.
1 week later
Skeptical right from the start. Even more skepticism with their acknowledgment of delay.
Hope for the best but expect nothing.
3 weeks later
Quoted from flynnibus:"deeproot Pinball plans to give away a FREE pinball machine for each designer to some lucky winners!! Designers include Robert Mueller, Dennis Nordman, Jon Norris, Barry Oursler, and John Popadiuk. You get a FREE deeproot machine of your choice by that designer! The designer will also help set up the machine, discuss the design process and the game, and play your game at your place of residence!! You can invite up to four friends. These giveaways will take place after deeproot Pinball officially launches!! (Reasonable restrictions apply. Subject to change.)"
Oh my.. where have we heard this before...
I wonder what the Odds are that this happens ? Kind of sounds far fetched and like recycled hyperbole. But there is the disclaimer - Reasonable restrictions apply. Subject to change. I'd hang my hat on the disclaimer.
I'm skeptical if games ever make full production. I'll believe it when I see it.
Would like to see deeproot live up to their "vision" or whatever you want to call it. But a very healthy dose of skepticism seems quite warranted.
I'm in the show me camp. Hope they deliver..... meanwhile time marches on.
1 month later
Casually watching. Could be interesting if they pull it off. Guessing if it does indeed come to fruition, they will have to get rolling sometime in 2019. At some point you need to produce games and have income from sales to be viable. Time marches on. Sitting back and watching but I won't get excited until something happens. Maybe they can do it, but it can't be easy in any way.
1 month later
Quoted from fishbone:This. Too bad the "Five days of Deeproot" have been postponed. I like to see new ideas whether outlandish or ingenious. Innovation, baby. Bring it on (especially in this business)
How about 5 years not five days. Skepticism grows with each month that goes by.
2 weeks later
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:I hope we get a reveal soon before another 25 pages discussing optos and switches
Don't hold your breath.
Quoted from Fulltilt:Wow... flew through today's 35 posts pretty quickly... (:
Nothing to see here.
Time Marches On.
Quoted from Aurich:...... can you beat Pinside for free market research? It's a gold mine of opinions!
At times it's more like a septic tank.
1 month later
1 week later
Quoted from mcbPalisade:Looks like a female George Jetson
Doesn't do anything for me[quoted image]
Looks like something drawn for a kids sticker book more than pinball art. Doesn't do a thing for me either.
That artwork is WAY better than the stuff that looks like it was made for a preteen girls sticker book ... post 3817...
Many new posts and still a bunch of nothing.
In regards to the article - Until there is a full production line with equipment and workers assembling games I wouldn't hold my breath. Sounds like empty space concerning that if I read the article correctly. All the hyperbole and even with a big brick and mortar building and pinball scientists doesn't mean much unless you produce games.
In the show me camp. And time continues to march on...
3 weeks later
Not holding my breath , though I'd like to see them actually make it and produce some games. Time just keeps passing though.
Good to hear some folks are getting cash payouts. That is good.
Still skeptical though that they can deliver on the manufacturing of multiple games etc to the tune of the hyperbole.
Time marches on.
Nice some folks got cash, but yep - still skeptical about the whole thing succeeding and games getting produced on the level of a prime pinball manufacturer.
Nothing to get excited about until a full factory line is active and churning out games.
I watched it live when it aired too.
I like the episode where he qualifies at the range and he uses a "loudener" on his gun blowing huge holes in all the targets. 
1 week later
Quoted from o-din:is better than both those pieces. lol
I'm not going to go back through 92 pages of nothing to find what Italian sports car deeproot is trying to sell us. From what I understand they don't even have a dealership or a showroom yet.
Not Italian sports cars, I thought more along the lines of a Smart Car or Yugo. Remember the Pinto and Pacer ? Those were gorgeous and wonderfully engineered.
Dealership or showroom ?? Factory has no line to put anything together. Not that there is anything to build. At least no push back from the UAW union.
@ o-din
Dream themes could include one music pin that nobody would dare build - Lawrence Welk the music pin ! Imagine a bubble machine inside the playfield. A one a and a two a multiball. Good night theme song playing at game over. I've pitched this theme to one of my contacts at a major pin manufacturer. The boss just won't give it a go. It would look great sitting next to my Beatles pin.
2 weeks later
Announcements pretty much equate to nothing or close to it. Heck, o-din has posted as much useful substance as anybody. 
Not holding my breath any more.
Don't get me wrong I'd like to see them get a line going and actual games in production, but I am not convinced it will happen. A lot of time has gone by already. Have to be skeptical.
Quoted from PinRob:You were holding your breath? If so you would at the very least have brain damage or more likely no longer be with us.
No - I'm just a normal pinsider now.
@ o-din
Could your group do Sledgehammer ? A really hot Dori Doreau would be good too. Not sticker book crap, but really good cartoon art.
1 week later
Are we there yet ?
Quoted from ThisNotes4U:What happens if you are the poster that hits 100 pages? Prizes maybe? (nothing for first place).
1 month later
Quoted from epthegeek:The bit I don't get is: John was already working on RAZA for quite a while before deep root absorbed Zidware. The current version being shown isn't too far off from his PF back then (as shown in the side by side photo). Then tack on all the time Deep Root has been involved and a bunch of actual industry people are part of that team, and this is all they've got so far?
THIS !
So they took this game to a show to get feedback ? I don't know that's it's going to be real positive.
@ noitbe1 - I watched the video STDM posted again. Shortened up my post on impression from the videos. Actually the STDM video isn't that horrible. The second video posted by Hardy is worse.
You are correct hard to tell how it plays without actually being there.
But not seeing much for a couple years of work on something that was already designed previously. It just doesn't look like an effort that matches the time and rhetoric we have heard.
Quoted from ZMeny:I’m not there or I’d be happy to film the heck out of it for everyone
Zach - your video posted really isn't that bad. Actually thought it was better than the footage Hardy posted. Nice you got something up on the interweb to view. Your friend made a good effort. We get an idea what the game looks like and see a little play.
You are absolutely correct razorsedge. - I'm just making the observation they will get feedback at the show and I don't think it's going to be super positive. I would still say though this is their product and they are showcasing it to some degree .. This is a couple years effort piled on top of work that was done previously by jpop. They can call this unveiling what they want. They will get their real world testing and numbers. Let's see what they do with it.
Quoted from rubberducks:JJP had Hobbits, DIs and PotCs on location for months getting feedback before they went to production, too.
But as Keith Johnson alluded to on Twitter, I'm not sure DR are going to get much useful testing data from these.
Yes - I wonder how much actual data they collect at a show and how useful it is. Maybe what they are really interested in is firsthand reaction to what they have. A lot of stuff in pinball can't be quantified - could be that stuff is what is being observed. Question is Will they do anything with what they learn.
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:I don't think it's Deeproot people dislike as much as they do Robert and the way he goes about things.
They would have had a better shot if it was somebody besides Robert, and no Jpop. Two strikes to start with.
Quoted from o-din:I'll see your original BSG and raise you one original Bonanza.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I'll see your Bonanza and raise you one Lorne Greene Alpo Time dog food commercial.
I always liked Chuck Conners as the Rifleman too. And Wagon Train was alright too. Wanted Dead or Alive with Steve McQueen ...
Gunsmoke would probably make the best pin though.
1 week later
Deeproot apparently is only a prototype model of a pinball company and the power is turned down. Real world data for them is sketchy.
3 months later
Quoted from CrazyLevi:There’s zero chance this event happens in two weeks. Unless they are about to run out of money and seriously have no other option.
They will be ok - they would be way under the 250 person threshold for gatherings I would think.
If they got 50 people to show up I'd be surprised.
Let er rip. Do the big reveal.
@ cjhand - Kudos for exercising good judgement in regards to health and health of others. Everybody should do this. Thanks.
2 weeks later
1 month later
2 months later
This thread is a couple years old and you're now counting weeks for communication, information, tangibles, etc ?
Years would be much easier.
Pretty tough to have much optimism at this point. 
2 weeks later
2 weeks later
Rip Van Winkle should be their first pin.
That's assuming something actually gets out the door at some point...
3 weeks later
Quoted from branlon8:sorry, that doesn't count - you did 2 in a row !
Nothing was new at #9999 so I took the liberty of claiming #10,000 when so much has changed. LOL
I don't expect too much today, but wouldn't it be nice if there really is something other than just the Raza. I have pretty much forgot what was shown before but it was not memorable, at least for me. Guess we will see, or not.
Having a real production line with bunches of workers and process that pumps games out like the big one is a very tall order.
Quoted from frolic:The manufacturing piece IS the main piece. We've seen so many huge game debuts over the years only to have it all fall apart after. If manufacturing is not part of the reveal today, we're probably still a year+ away.
If they are not close to manufacturing by now, it's all toast.
Quoted from Mudflaps:I feel like this is all some elaborate social experiment.
It's called a f#8%k show.
Is that a Bose Radio from the 90's stuck on the pin ? Guessing it's the monitor - looks more like a radio in an old barbershop.
The lock down area is stupid bad. Genital area speakers ? What is going on at that place ?
Quoted from Coz:Judging by the fingerprints, I assume this is a touch screen?? What are your thoughts?
[quoted image]
I think that's maybe a microwave oven with the door on the top instead of the front ? Or maybe a dispenser for ice cream sandwiches or cold drinks.
I'm with Levi on this. Pretty much everything they did is stupid. The "innovations" are goofy. That's one of the crappiest hot messes I have seen. The came up with stuff just to have new crapola. Might as well put square tires on a car.
The only thing stupid I might like, IF it was done right, are the dumb themes, with forethought, and IF done by another company that can actually produce a game. That's even a flyer, but a funny theme or an off the wall title "MIGHT" work if executed correctly with an experienced smart manufacturer. Even that's a big stretch. Just trying to find something to sort of like.
They haven't even tackled the hardest part. A factory line with workers and processes that work, and so on. Too busy designing the Edsel pinball machine.
@ jvspin - Having the glass encased in a frame with gas filled shocks is a mistake. When the glass breaks or the shocks fail or start to leak and the glass does not stay up you have a problem. There is nothing hard or difficult removing or replacing glass in a conventional manner. Cost of the glass system and lift will add a bunch of cost and a point of failure to the game. Diagnostics on the screen ? Take a look at an AP game. The apron pinbar is goofy. It would be more useful to make that a lid for a cooler to put your drinks or ice cream in. That's what it looks like. Too bulky and odd. Touch screen's are for phones.
Quoted from Jvspin:The one thing I like about the Heighway system is the glass feels safe in it's cartridge and it doesn't require extra space to remove, downside is it's heavy.
How does AP get around the playfield blocking the LCD screen when it's in it's vertical position? I can't find any youtube videos of AP's service menu.
A friend of mine has Alien and the motorcycle game whatever its called. Removing the glass on them is awkward and they are heavy for sure. What happens when the glass itself breaks. How is the glass secured in the frame ? I just don't like it. Too bulky and too heavy. Simpler is better.
I have not done switch tests and coil tests with the playfield raised - I didn't read your statement carefully. When I have had to check something it's pretty much with the playfield down in most cases to find what I might need to look at before I raise the playfield. Manually checking switches, firing coils etc with playfield down. Guess I didn't understand where you going.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Reminds me of those "as seen on tv" ads where someone can't use a basic onion peeler without losing a finger or setting their kitchen on fire.
I like the guy that cuts the bottom out of a boat and puts in screen and sprays it with rubber stuff.
Quoted from benheck:PinBar is stupid. It's ugly, uncomfortable and shows a very Boomer-esque misunderstanding of why Millenials and zoomers enjoy location pins in the first place - BECAUSE THEY'RE MECHANICAL AND RETRO.
In fact i'd argue pins would become more popular on location the FURTHER from a cell phone they get, not CLOSER.
12 upvotes from me if I could. 1 upvote is not enough.
Also props to Rosh and his comments. ( by the way AP will continue to get more buys from me in the future )
Fu**k the ipads and phones. Pinball should be pinball. That's the last thing I want integrated in to a pin.
Just make better pins. Have them be reliable. Manufactured well. Great support - if the first 3 are taken care of the support should not be a problem for the manufacturer.
Quoted from flynnibus:Sorry - that's a complete misrepresentation of what has transpired here.
1 - They have promoted what they want to do with it
2 - We have competencies to be able to form reasonable opinions of what those promoted items may mean to us
3 - We are not blind sheep that will simply follow the promises a perineal blowhard who can't deliver
4 - It can't be overlooked that 'playing the game' somehow wasn't part of the NDA release... I'm sure that's because they think they have some magic they don't want other companies copying... but it also speaks volumes about where they think they are with being able to get to market.
My comment was about keeping an eye open for POTENTIAL vs damning all futures. Much of the bashing is not about potential - but what we've already seen (or they refuse to show)
Again... this was a game that was supposed to be complete more than half a year ago. People had flights booked, hotels ready... to experience a grand multi-day reveal of the deeproot story. A plan that was stopped by covid right??? Wouldn't you love to hear the real planned agenda for that reveal?
Bob in Dec 2018 - that's right.. almost TWO years ago stated:
"We aren’t worried about spin or making anything positive or negative. It is very simple. I owe it to my staff that the blood, sweat, and tears (innovations) we have expended will be showcased and delivered to the public in the best possible way. That includes extra stress and cycle testing of new innovations; using additional time making sure launch titles are code and AV complete; increasing the durability of the playfield; and improving playfield assembly process efficiencies. Lastly, I’ve promised future customers that we will ship in two weeks of a sale being made. We simply will not reveal anything before being able to keep the promise by promptly shipping games after a reveal."
Nov 2019 when asked about production
"TWIP: Can you give an update on production – do you have an estimation on how close deeproot is to starting production?
RM: I’ll answer it like this. We will meet our modified Zidware deadline of June 30, 2020."
Now, three deadlines later... we still have an aborted launch, incomplete product, and no clear story on how they plan to get to market or improve upon the game they previously showed.
No one needs to 'play the game' to be able to form a valid opinion on the state of things.
Great post and sums the situation up very well. We have seen the dog and pony show by these types before - many if not all, have not gone well.
Another one I'd like to give 12 upvotes to.
Quoted from yancy:Because it's simple, time tested, rock solid technology that just plain works. I can navigate a Williams or Stern menu faster than you can do anything on a fancy touchscreen device. Never have to worry if my app is updated. Never have to go upstairs and grab my phone if I left it in the living room. Never have to troubleshoot the bluetooth dongle firmware or whatever the hell will inevitably break my ability to change something I can do in ten seconds with existing hardwired buttons. Don't have to worry about fat-fingering something on a touchscreen.
Ask any operator or longtime collector if they'd trade their coin door buttons for an app.Outdated, you mean like pinball itself? All of those things you listed have been distilled down to their simplest essence over decades. No frills, just basic, commercial-grade mechanical functionality that even a luddite old-school operator can figure out without software or even a paper manual.
Multiple upvotes here too.
Quoted from yancy:It's a manufacturing business, period, full stop. If you aren't manufacturing pins, you don't even have a business. Design is just one department that feeds the assembly line, like human resources, procurement, accounting, etc. Sure, design is the part that excites us, but it's not a business. It's just an expense.
The. Line. Is. Everything. And I haven't seen any evidence that deerpoot has one.
BINGO
Don't see Deeproot doing it Wesman. Have doubts they will. Sure I'd like to see it. But I think they are prone to failure with the time and what we have seen and not seen so far.
Yes multiple companies have done it. Deeproot - nope. Not even close.
Quoted from ForceFlow:I was in town today, and on the main street there is an antique/junk shop. They tend to put a few things out front on the sidewalk, and I noticed this thing...[quoted image]
That's their initial Prototype !
Quoted from frolic:I think the lack of opinion shared and the following of the NDAs reveals that they all WANT another free trip in the future, that it's already been dangled. To come back for launch part 2.
I don't think anybody will be needing to make any more trips.
Quoted from Viggin900:Just leaked! Here are better pictures of the Pinbar and how it works.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Why is that one mounted vertically ? WTF . That should be down on the play surface where it's in the way and you can burn your hands.
18 what ? Months until nothing happens ? Again.
Or do they string things along for another 18 months for final implosion ?
Quoted from pookycade:Ya know if you just read the first couple of pages of this thread you could skip the next 2 years and 234 pages and know entirely what was about to transpire. On page 1 multiple comments like “this will not end well”. It’s like reading the cliff notes version upfront and then letting the 1000 page book unfold thereafter. What is most surprising I suppose is that it has gone almost exactly as one would expect it to go thus far. A slow motion train wreck of bad decision and poor execution upon bad decision and poor execution.
I'd give 10 upvotes on this one if I could.
I wonder how much longer until the train wreck ends ?
Quoted from NeilMcRae:What a total shitshow this has been.
I'd guess about another 6 months of nonsense and little to no further progress. No line, No games and No money coming in - other than who ever has been fooled into investing in this venture. It's not going to turn out well. Seems to have some similarity to previous Zidware. At some point this house of cards will fall.
1 week later
@ Todd
A great new idea would be for them to actually produce some games. I don't think these folks will make it another 35 years to actually push something out the doors. No Christmas Story here...
Nice post about pinball history though. Liked that part.
1 week later
Yup - that looks a lot like the pinbar.
I still think it would be better served as a cooler lid for holding cold beverages, frozen ice cream confections or something else you don't need in a pinball machine. Ha !
Quoted from CrazyLevi:There’s no crying in pinball dude.
and there's no production in deep root.
Hello pinside my old friend
I came to the deeproot thread again
Where nothing just keeps repeating
Where the believers just keep seeking
And there's the familiar smell ...of failure
Quoted from Mr68:I was hoping for some in Haiku
Haiku :
Deep Root not today
Not to make a game at all
It will go away
Seven days of DeepRoot will never come
They went and hired that J pop bum
Root brags and drags
No games in the bag
I doubt they'll ever be done
Pig in a Poke
Deeproots played their big Joke
Investors they lure
Wishing profits to occur
In the end the company goes Broke
1 week later
Quoted from cpr9999:Pinball rule #1.
Need to actually play it - to make decision. So many people have said game looks great but it sucks OR just the opposite too!!
Don't need to play this one. You can see this is a hot mess and after so much delay, this is it ?
About the only thing I thought looked fair to decent were some of the animations.
Still not sold on the pinbar. No thanks. That's a waste and if that's where a bunch of time was spent, it was time wasted that should have went elsewhere. Not needed and not wanted.
Production Line ????????? - Probably will not be necessary. I still don't see this getting off the ground.
If this were the Pinball Builders Fair best I could do is award a participation ribbon or trophy.
Exactly what I was thinking - solderless ? How many crappy molex or other new "innovative" connectors they come up with going to do ?
Agree with Levi - that sounds like a recipe for troubles.
Quoted from chuckwurt:If you go solderless at coils that’s definitely no bueno.
Exactly !
Quoted from John_I:The do use solderless *especially* where there is constant vibration. I dare anyone to show me a soldered pin on a connector in a car or a SpaceX rocket for that matter. What happens is that the solder wicks up into the strands of the wire and makes it really stiff. Where the solder stops, the wire is flexible again. That interface between the flexible and stiff part of the wire is a natural place that it will break off after being exposed to vibration.
For pinball coils, I like the spade connectors Williams used on later games or a short pigtail with a molex connector. Nothing wrong with soldering direct to the coil either, but this conversation is about "connectors".
Did Deeproot makes claims that their pin is air worthy ? Guess I missed that. When pigs fly - or for that matter pinball machines.
Spade connectors on a coil suck. It's a pinball machine, not an airplane. I'll take solder thanks. Not flying my pinball machine today or driving it down the road.
Quoted from benheck:The PinBar is a cool concept. But it's just another screen. It displays info and takes input, neither of those are an innovation. I like how it helps add players. But I'm worried with how much DR talks about narrative and how that might cause the game to stop constantly and request input on it. It's also why the lack of inserts on RAZA is concerning, means the game progression has to show up someplace other than the PF. Guarantee that's a headache for Bowden and whoever is coding it.
IMO the Stranger Things projection mapping is a much cooler innovation. (albeit an ancient concept) Granted the game isn't the best and the projector could be brighter (though it looks better in person) it's still a cool way to add diversity to an otherwise fairly static PF. It's like Pinball 2000 but doesn't add 200 lbs.
And it bears repeating that Millenials and Gen Z (the people actually plunking down location money) like pinball BECAUSE it is retro. I don't think boomer designers get this. They're in a mindset of "what do the kids like I know phones!" and we get Dialed In and The PinBar.
Young people are obsessed with VHS, tape decks, the 80s, vinyl records in the same way Boomers were obsessed with cowboys and colt pistols. The innovation shouldn't be a dumb LCD but how we can use today's amazing sensors and robotics to make the real physical PF come alive in a way that's more exciting and tangible than games on your phone.
DR has talked about everything BUT the game with RAZA. Hopefully their other stuff will be better. But this is a dud. There's no magic just a bunch of color and lights.
I'd give 5 upvotes on this post if I could. Read the whole post again.
Quoted from cpr9999:Dang this thread is nasty to DR.
They should just fold now and this bitch thread would go away...Anyone have a positive outlook these days?
Here's a little positivity for you Jim - a smiley. 
Happy Thanksgiving.
2 weeks later
I think I'd rather take my chances with Project Pinball Charity.
At least the odds of actually getting a game are better - only 1 in 200.
And it's only $50 and the money is going to a great spot.
Hit the pinbar and the establishment your in brings your beer and food order out to you at the pinball game. Saves you 20 steps going up to the bar to order.
Asshat could be a good game. Right up there with Food Truck. Maybe at the next stop for jpop. Jpop 5.0
Quoted from CrazyLevi:They asking for money now. Not surprising the “communication” has suddenly improved.
Not improved much. Unless asking for deposits $ with no production line is an improvement. Well, maybe in their case about as improved as it can get I suppose.
Quoted from cpr9999:Common John - I know you are in for a Food Truck, put it right next to Octoberfest.
Food and Beer!
I'll wait - probably see it reinvented as Roach Coach at jpops next stop in the pinball world.
We probably won't see Food Truck anyway.
How many RAZA did you put in your shopping cart ? Hurry up and buy before the ordering window closes.
Quoted from flynnibus:You can be confident that DR isn't re-inventing electronics assembly. It's a large industry full of both large and small volume companies doing this domestically... and I'm not talking about Pinball -- I'm talking electronics. People who designing, running, and optimizing those processes is their actual lifelong career... supported by their engineering and QA teams to drive efficiencies and quality. This is not some wild west frontier waiting for a golden child to show up and have an 'ah ha' moment and revolutionize manufacturing. Counter to Robert's boasts... they didn't have some silver bullet solution. Which is why years later, all they could do is wave their hands and talk plans about the future... months after they were supposed to be launched.
The reason people dismiss those scenarios is because there is lots of real world experience here to detect their claims as a smoke show. Add into that the long history of lack of credibility... and get what you have here.
People aren't entertaining those scenarios because they know better.
Multiple upvotes on this if I could.
Quoted from wrb1977:In on a RAZA Arcade Edition...order #100087!
I’m definitely excited but at the same time I’m not naive and fully understand and accept the risks involved with supporting them. I exchanged a few more emails with deeproot and feel comfortable with my decision to go with the 10% deposit option. I’m hoping it all works out...time will tell!
Best of Luck - Really. Hope it turns out well for you.
Quoted from BallPin:Yah, it's the only forum that someone wished my family got covid and that I have a baby with autism. That is the first time in my life anyone has ever said that, and first time I heard anyone say it to someone else. That is pretty extreme.
That's pretty rotten.
Quoted from kermit24:That’s interesting. Wonder how many games distros are purchasing.
Do they have any actual official Deep Root Distributors ??
@ CrazyLevi - I am sure there will be a diagnostic pinbar mirror that you will attach to the head of the game. Then you can see the pinbar in the raised position. If your dyslexic it will be easy enough to make out what's happening. They are still working on how you would access the touch screen though. Still figuring out the innovation on that. It will all be good. No worries.
They may hand build 30-40 of these for zidware compensation - they might pull that off. Beyond that who knows. I would not expect much.
Without a real production line they are toast.
Sorry @ cpr9999 - I don't have a positive other than maybe some zidware guys might sorta have a half a chance to be made whole.
Hopefully production line and not an unemployment line.
If they have 186 orders there are some gutsy or optimistic people out there betting they can make games.
Rubber is going to meet the road the next few months. Do they do it or more excuses ?
Wish anybody with deposits best of luck.
Quoted from cpr9999:They will definitely need a line now... up to 186 in pre-order thread
Quoted from cpr9999:I have nothing vested in this pinball or DR.
.......More pinball is good.
I say good luck!
You have common sense. I would add this cavet though to "More pinball is good" - it's only good if promises are kept and games get made. If not, another debacle just makes it harder for anybody to have confidence in any future start ups.
Good Luck to those who have dropped money on deposits and those waiting on other promises from the zidware make up deals.
I hope Santa Claus comes. Maybe the elves in the North Pole can put the games together after Christmas is over.
At least Santa has a production line.
More Santa is good.
Santas elves making the games is plausible. It would keep the workshop going after Christmas, but I think Jpop and Robert might be on the naughty list.
Don't know if Santa is keen with taking any partnerships or work from folks on the naughty list.
A yeah - look at your avatar - HoHoHo. Of course you like Santa Claus.
Santa is their best bet. Too bad about the naughty list though. Throws a big wrench in the works. More delays.
Quoted from flynnibus:There is no reputation or history yet? The last 5 years didn't happen?
Hey - cpr9999 IS Santa Claus. Of course he takes a lighter view of it all. He is working to get Jpop and Robert off the naughty list. If the elves in his workshop can make the games it's one step toward Santa's goal. The elves might be a tough sell though on all that work after Christmas. That would keep them busy well beyond next Christmas and how would the toys get made. That's a problem.
So Santa is watching is what you're saying ?
Come on - Open up the workshop - lets see the line of elves !
Quoted from cpr9999:FYI, If they successfully fill all orders wether that is 100 or 200 and Zidware customers get theirs along with new people we should all be singing praises to DR.
PM sent. I better not post what my response to that is. 
Actually I emailed you... Check your mail. ... My response might not have even made it past the PM system.
Quoted from benheck:Ya'll do realize that quad & octo manufacturing were never really a thing right? Just more "bullshit JPOP words" to slap on a flyer like "Quickstep solenoids"
Hopefully for the buyers they have something real setup.
I was thinking the Octo manufacturing was the use of an Octopus putting the games together.
Quoted from cpr9999:For me, RAZA / DR is intriguing to watch.
I think they would have done 500+ game orders for RAZA if they would have went through distributors that held the down payment.
1. Like a train wreck.
2. Pffft - not a chance. I don't think they got any interest from any legit distributor anyhow.
I think you have been working from home too long. Lay off the cheap beer or booze. 
Quoted from cpr9999:Fair enough.
I suspect the “rounded up” production numbers at $8/$13k will sell no problem.
Also, their next title will tell more. Sounds like their pinball platform is developed so we will understand their future pricing model.
Time will tell....
Your thinking like Deeproot is a company equivalent to say - Rockwell or something. No No - More like Shamwow .
Quoted from Yelobird:Lol. The Shamwow company did 3-5 Million in sales of Rags. What a fail?
Innovation.
Don't think Deeproot pinball will do as well as the magical innovative rag though.
The comparison was more big time vs Mickey Mouse. (Don't bring up Disney) You missed the point.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Shamwow is a great hustle. Aggressive sales technique on a very cheap to produce item
Pinball is not that lol.
Yup this is a hustle too - won't turn out like Shamwow. They were shooting for that early on though Ferrari type pin with Kia pricing or what ever they were spouting at one time.
Hey - they missed doing the pinrag, for cleaning your game !
Quoted from Roostking:My take, they dont even deliver a pin to customers, so all of this is irrelevant. Production is the hard part...
They may get a handful out the door eventually, but with what issues etc ? Don't like it, but my gut says it won't be good.
I do hope though for those who are owed games or those that put down a deposit they get games eventually and without a bunch of trouble or unforeseen developments.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:I'm gonna go ahead and guess less than 5 games out by end of January.
Lead times for parts are crazy right now. In January They will only be able to build machines they already have parts for.
I'd guess similar, but say end of February if it happens. If they can do it, I think it takes a couple months to build first small handful of games.
Would not be surprised in the least after 30-60 days nothing happens and then they "revise" their production schedule.
First uplifting post.
Quoted from spfxted:....and now....a 5 minute break....
[quoted image]
Quoted from spinal:The quad (octo) manufacturing system is top secret and would be immediately stolen and implemented by competitors if seen. It’s innovative and much more efficient than existing methods and this is why you can count on games being out the door, on schedule, 3 maybe 5 weeks from now. It’s a no-brainer. Plus RM gave his word to those laying down deposits.
It's using an Octopus to put together games.
@ cpr9999
There has been at least one very uplifting post. ( If you page back a few pages or look at the picture gallery you will find it )
As far as pitchforks I don't see that, but there is good picture of a shit spreader a few posts above.
1 week later
Quoted from cpr9999:Nope.
Main reason is to get the liability out of the way upfront on this title. Bury the shit storm and move on to next title.
Shit Storm ? , is that before Food Truck, or before or after RAZA 
Read this one again and connect the dots.
Quoted from flynnibus:Your first point applies no matter which game they sold... so its moot to the discussion over which title to build. Sales would not be capped once you got the game into the market and let it prove itself.
Second point - that is actually revisionist history. Remember when robert promised multiple titles at launch and all available immediately? NOW they say they have to ramp up slowly... so that is a late change, not a choice that would have picked which title is first here at nearly the end of raza’s development. So trying to say that drove the choice is just backwards.
And even if it were true, the number one motivator and de-risk element to INVESTING in production capacity is sales. If they had a big backlog of sales, they’d have less issue with spending to speed up their production quality and output.
Your third point only hold true because THEY made it that way. This is again circular logic. It can’t support the choice because the choice is what made that true to start with.
Four and five make sense as schemes to front load sales as much as possible... but don’t make sense to sell raza as a long term product. These are again choices that make sense only after you know you have made the choice to NOT try to sell the game as a full fledged product. So again... circular logic...
At the end of the day... raza will be a project that robert mueller spent millions on and never will see a penny of profit. They could have made different runs... but they instead chose to try to create FOMO to get as big of a single run as possible and then move on. For a product that would never had turned a profit no matter what they charged for it. Revenue comes through VOLUME ... and they chose to literally stop any sales for their company.
This says he doesn’t care about cash flow... yet the company has been cutting costs... draw your own conclusions
I'd like to see the promised pictures of the parking lot. Guesses as to how many vehicles are there ?
Think maybe they are ramping up to push games out the doors 
No I don't think most of it's about drama - I think a lot of the posts are just plain facts, and reasonable thought toward probable outcomes - nobody likes to see people get burned. If there is drama, it's a by product of how things don't line up on multiple levels, the history involved and time that has passed.
Just doesn't look good where I'm sitting. Some have optimism. Wish them luck, but I don't think this will turn out well in the end.
Quoted from iceman44:Exactly, how else would you know what to ramp up for?
So I'll swing by sometime tomorrow and do the "counting cars in the parking lot" observation.
How many cars in the parking lot ?
1 week later
Quoted from benheck:I bet it's summer before anything trickles out the door.
....
IF and when the trickle happens - that could be it too. If they get 10-20 games put together I would be surprised.
Quoted from cpr9999:I am sure this will help you get one soon.
Oh wait, I have one to sell you and will let you have it for a $7k deposit. I will collect the remainder upon shipping.
I'll go $7.00 even. I'll take the balance of breaking a ten dollar bill and get a few powerball tickets. The tickets probably have a better chance of getting something in return.
Didn't know you preordered one of these. If so, pretty ballsy. Thought we talked about this - maybe you forgot your ordered from another start up ?
I won't preorder anything except maybe take out food - curbside service.
Quoted from iceman44:I'm down in Port Aransas this week. It'll have to wait until early next week before i can swing by there.
I'll take some pics and post so you guys can let your imagination run wild! Lol
Been very busy.
What's the parking lot looking like ?
Quoted from cpr9999:Maybe time to speak to your counselor?
(Ok - everyone back to pinball now....)
[quoted image]
REALIST
noun
1. a person who accepts a situation as it is and is prepared to deal with it accordingly.
"I am a realist, with no time for your world of make believe"
" You have been Pinfu*%'d tm "
Quoted from cpr9999:(Ok - everyone back to pinball now....)
[quoted image]
??? There is no pinball in Deeproot, or at least very little. Only Prototypes so far....
Quoted from cpr9999:Lots of investment.[quoted image]
Lot's of money spent on all the pinball machines they have produced thus far. Goose egg. And how many years already....
A couple prototypes, many promises, numerous delays.
But there were 18 cars in the parking lot one day. It will all turn out ok. Just need another multimillion infusion of cash from investors to get back on track and get the ball really rolling. Investors will see dividends soon.
Maybe the other ventures aside from pinball are rocking to make up the shortfall. But when do you trim out the fat ?
( or are the other ventures performing similarly )
No worries. 
Quoted from cpr9999:Lots of investment.
What’s the return on investment?
[quoted image]
deep toilet (resized).jpg@ benheck
Agree - if the number is even a legit 160 games, and I think that number is inflated, they will just build the games by hand probably a half dozen maybe 10 people if they have them. It will take them all year to get Raza built, provided they actually get or have parts to fully build units - which seems in doubt with the pinbar stamping which would cost bookoo bucks. They got some real problems, even just to build them by hand. Doubt they will have a real line or be able to tool one up.
Quoted from Makakka:Man does not seek God so much as miracles. And since man is incapable of being happy without miracles, he will create new miracles for himself, miracles of his own, and will bow down to the miracles of sorcerers and witches (Dostojewski).
JPop is the sorcerer. RAZA is his miracle to bow down to.
Wow that's deep.
...deep poop or something that almost rhymes with it
Quoted from benheck:You do realize there's a pretty good chance they don't end up making ANY games right?
Yup, or a very small handful before before it's all done.... But zero is very plausible.
They will get antsy when April Fools day comes and goes and nothing has happened except more delay talk and the usual and so forth.
If there is nothing by March, April, May it won't be much of a surprise.
Summer - yeah, Ben is probably right the preorder folks will probably have had their optimism tested by then.
1 week later
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Summary: If I preordered, this interview would not fill me with confidence.
Pretty much said he's a rules designer and can't comment on other stuff about deeproot. Probably not much to comment on as there is no production.
He also made some reference that he knows what a BOM looks like or such - I think he was going toward or inferring they don't have a lot of parts to put any machines together.
Suspect next communication from deeproot will be about unforeseeable delays due to parts, etc, etc.
Quoted from cliff_clavin:It’s very interesting to read the wording of the ad. It almost contemplates a new tenant. Below market rates, multi tenant suitable, value added asset.
Yes - it does sound like the tenant situation could be very much in flux from the wording. Wonder if their lease terms or date are coming up, being modified or their is some indication lessor may be moving out at some point ??
Curious wording in the ad. Almost sounds like the buyer should anticipate leasing space to one or more new tenants.
Quoted from drfrightner:THREE HUNDRED and TWENTY THREE pages about a pinball company that has NEVER shipped a game EVER! Simply Amazing!
Not sure pinball company is the right word. More like Think Tank, and the thinking is not so good.
If it's down from Octo manufacturing to Quad that probably means there are just four people left in the plant. John, Robert and two more people to try and put the games together when all innovation is final, and they get some parts and so forth. Heavy on the so forth.
Maybe the cars that are there are checking out the building for sale or lease.
Or could it be that Enterprise or Hertz Rent a car is moving in if the parking lot is full of cars.
https://www.crexi.com/properties/452952/texas-12621-silicon-drive
I thought they might hand build a dozen or so Raza with a small handful of people but I'm starting to wonder if that will even come to fruition. Isn't looking so good. Time keeps marching on. Nothing substantive. Broken Promises. Changing rhetoric and troubling things surrounding it all including facility and staffing questions. Adding up what is, or what isn't does not paint a picture of much confidence. This is shaping up to be zidware 2.0 on a different metric. Looks like a house of cards all things considered.
Quoted from Zablon:Oh I don't know...they were probably promised a RAZA.
Some assembly required.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I agree, you have about a 10 percent chance of getting these games.
I'd maybe say a bit higher at about 15 % odds, but would cut it by 5 % with each passing month from here on out.
They might push out a dozen, or twenty, or thirty, or maybe a few more, but I suspect if they do it, It will be piece meal and built by a very small handful of people without any production line. That's IF they manage to build any.
I'd guess down the road be it two, three, seven months whatever, it's all going to be over. I didn't bet - No preorder from me. Looked like a huge gamble backed with ever changing broken promises, multiple delays, boastful bravado, wasted time, and all for what looks to me to be a very mediocre pin. Then when the house of cards falls and if you're lucky enough to have gotten a pin, if getting one is lucky, what the heck do you do when some critical part breaks or the game won't boot up some evening when you turn it on ? Who's going to answer answer the pinbar then....
No thanks, bets have already been placed by those who ordered. I'm not that gutsy. Can't do it. I wouldn't wager anything on this mess in any shape or form.
I'm with Wolfmarsh - I would be happy to be wrong about all this, but this doesn't look good.
Much better bet is buying 10 tickets from project pinball charity. Better odds of actually getting a game. And even when you lose, others win. Childrens Hospitals and Ronald McDonald Houses.
1 week later
I don't know about Wanting them to fail - hate to see anybody get burned on their deposits and would like to see the zidware refugees get a game.
But, if this company is in the last stages of cardiac failure it would be better to call it and be done for those effected. Looks like they might be on life support at this stage and low odds of recovery.
However I am not a pinball Doctor.
Quoted from dc2010:Man I really hope everyone gets their pin
But if/when this blows up, I'll be looking for the auction notice
At least there won't be alot of production people out of work
Quoted from Lounge:Pick up a sweet HUO octo-manufacturing rig?
Not unless they have an Octopus in that building .
It said subject to change... but really , that's every day at the Root.
Kind of like - Your mileage may vary. Good thing they are not manufacturing cars, they are at 0 mpg so far.
Quoted from thechakapakuni:Maybe on April 1st Deeproot will reveal their puzzle
Actually they have been a puzzle for how many years.
April Fool To You
Deeproot has no games to ship
Excuse our Promises
Phase 2 is looking like have shit in pants.
Or maybe not fully out of Phase 1 where the shitting begins. And continues.
Quoted from Roostking:You think there are chapters? Production is the hard part here and that appears to be a year away.. Like others have said, that letter reads like a pre-written obituary , they are just waiting on the date of death.
I'd bet there will be no production. Period. As you say this is just the precursor to the obituary. Reading between the lines it sounds like they may actually want people to opt out. Try to save what little face they might have to some and say, hey there are no longer enough orders to proceed with production due to the number of rescinded pre orders. We can no longer proceed on to production, etc, etc.
Quoted from JodyG:How many employees are currently on the roster at DR? I feel like the actual number may actually be a lot less than what we are all thinking it is.
I'd take a stab at a guess of less than 10 ? Pure guess, but that might be a decent wager. Could be as few as a half dozen.
Quoted from benheck:Regarding the latest update, it could be deeproot "building the narrative" (instead of games)
Imagine if you'd invested millions and the result was 100 orders. You'd be pissed. Maybe the plug has already been pulled and we are simply seeing the funeral arrangements?
Creating a "run on the bank" to use as an excuse not to build the games could very well be their strategy.
Pretty much what I was thinking too. Exit strategy - building narrative as you say - agree with you for sure. They may not even have had the purported number of orders of around 100 +/- whatever - could be that number was inflated. When they made that short order window I figured they were gauging interest, not taking a count for materials and parts. This seems to be heading toward a conclusion I would guess...
Why do they need a narrative ?
The narrative, exit strategy, or whatever it's taken as ... All to save pride, shift blame, save ego. Some, all or any of those. Probably just trying to give themselves a somewhat less bruising path out. Shift or transfer the reality of everything, rather than admit short comings and failure.
1 week later
Incompetence ? Or had no real intent to manufacture until sales interest was gauged ? Preorder generated very little interest. All but done. Seems doubtful they will ever manufacture anything of consequence in that building. I thought maybe they would squeeze out a dozen or more games hand building them, but doubt even that happening now. Does not look promising at all.
Looking at the photos they would have a better chance running a day care facility out of there, or maybe a fitness club.
Quoted from benheck:I still think they're gonna offer refunds and use that as an excuse to fold up shop.
It's probably their best avenue and would be the most tolerable way for it to come to a conclusion.
Quoted from cpr9999:Yikes - not my cup of tea - that machine is like 30 years to late.
You liked it when I had 30 year old machines. And even older. I thought you liked all kinds of tea. New, old, lots of good stuff out there.
I have not played a Fathom that I recall - but I would like to. Looks like a pretty neat game. I think it's a good idea to remake some older games. It has a place. Haggis will actually make and produce the games.
Marketing and who is making a game has a bearing for sure.
That is, if they are actually making a game. Have to remember what thread we are in.
Quoted from cpr9999:Understand some people may like it, but man I would certainly prefer my Big Lebowski or Aliens pinball that are on order be here instead of this. Just not my cup of tea - does mean it is not someone elses.
FYI - I like your modern collection much better - all new Stern, AP, etc. Big upgrade! (I get any pinball is fun - but what you have now is very cool).
My trouble is I like all eras of pinball. I do miss a bunch of the older games. Remember the Pinball Reservation I had set up ? That was fun. And I kept moving it around to different areas of the game room. The Res kept moving because of other games.
New games are fun for sure. If my house were bigger I could have kept them. Probably should have kept the last couple examples I had of the older stuff. Those were really especially nice ones.
Looking forward to playing your games when you get them ! Glad you didn't pursue becoming a dealer for Root. Ha Ha. That was crazy talk. We might have been putting together boxes of parts in your garage or something in the future. LOL
Scam might be a bit far on this one ? Just simple arrogance, ineptitude, incompetence, denial and blindness more like it with Jpop thrown in for excess baggage.
Silence and nothing shown since the reveal debacle not encouraging.
Quoted from benheck:Just a daily reminder, Spooky was started with around 50k total investment and the "break even don't go out of business" floor for AMH was 100 units.
Robert spent $20m+ and sold 130.
Deeproot sold 130 - that is probably inflated. No Question though as to how many games out the door - 0
woodworker - That one is good. Yeah, Deep Root is hiring people - huge eyeroll. Ha Ha. I wonder what the mid May spiel will be for the Raza Refugees.
Quoted from Yelobird:Streeetching the facts again. Mid May was Never said though it does help fuel your fires.
Excuse me if I was wrong but I thought Deeproot said they would not have an update for buyers until Mid may. If I read that wrong somewhere my apologies.
Best of Luck to you too.
Also thanks to the Pinsider who messaged me a short time ago verifying my reading comprehension is intact. Thanks.
My wishes of luck to the bird are genuinely heartfelt. From my perspective I am just not optimistic anything associated with the Root situation will turn out positive. Hope he and others do indeed get some update news SOMETIME in May.
Big difference between a Superbird and a Super Turd ...
Superbirds and Dodge Daytonas were only made as production cars so they could compete in Nascar. They really weren't meant to be mainstream sales production. Just enough to meet the rules to qualify to be used in Nascar.
Quoted from Mr68:If you guys want a cargument I will suggest Ferrari vs KIA.
They can't even get a KIA build done, much less a Ferrari. Maybe they had this all ass backwards.
What they designed was the Edsel of pinball when they were all done. ( Pinbar and so forth) Though they probably thought they were giving us the Tucker.
@ Woodworker - funny pictures. But there aren't any owners as nobody has a game.
They are more like refugees for lack of a better term.
Quoted from pookycade:To me the most interesting part of this story yet to play out is that there seems not to be a single leak internally from those who remain. For a company seemingly imploding that in itself is an achievement. Surely they must know what’s going down.
I would guess there are very few bodies left in that building.
Quoted from rotordave:Iceys back!!
Let’s start a sweepstakes on the date/time of his next drunken posting spree!
Good on ya champ!
rd
Two weeks to a month. Certainly before the next DR no news, no progress July "update".
Quoted from RCA1:Founder, president, and spokesman for company: We're making progress, next update in a few weeks.
Reaction: Argle Bargle! All is lost! Bail out of this mess!
Un-named, anonymous, unconfirmed source: Parts are way backordered. It's gonna be months.
Reaction: Hurray! Proof that all is well!
How did we get to this point?
Yup - pretty goofy. A fool and their money are soon parted. And Parted again. Get the money back if you can. This is the longest smoldering dumpster fire - and it would only be a very mediocre game at best, with little to no chance of parts or support in the future. Probably better off buying lotto scratch off tickets with, and if refunds are given. Why anybody has to wait to June 1st to ask for a refund and then refunds being first come first serve does not instill a lot of confidence.
Quoted from Richthofen:I don’t think radio silence is a good idea at all. If you want to avoid preorders cancelling then you should be feeding them exactly what’s going on in order to increase trust. Otherwise radio silence just makes it that much easier for preorders to throw in the towel.
Could be what they want.
Quoted from NashtyFunk:They said that the refund offer was an "All or none" deal where they would cancel my contract and give me a full refund or not.
Take the all deal
Wouldn't make too much of cars in the lot. There is a big expressway interchange nearby. Could be a bunch of those using what is normally a pretty empty lot to carpool from.
Or maybe there is a daycare in the building now. The empty space and lunch room looked ideal for that.
I think there are mostly realists, not haters here. And a lot of blind optimists in the pre order thread.
Quoted from Haymaker:nah, I think a lot of them have totally drank the Kool Aid and as the evidence mounted higher and higher it turned into a cope fest of "well its a gamble". When the games aren't delivered theres gonna be a lot of these guys
[quoted image]
Kind of agree with this I guess, but Nobody likes to admit to being taken or not making the best choice. It's not done yet officially. We all rationalize some things to make it right in our heads or reduce stress. I think everybody has purchased something in hindsight that wasn't money well spent or met expectations. The root thing isn't done yet, though many think it doesn't look good. Others think it will happen though even though it's a long saga with little to show so far other than some prototypes and not much else except communication of delays, etc.
Generally we like to believe in people and sometimes it doesn't work out. When it doesn't, you have to make peace in your head about it. I don't blame them for saying it's a gamble. If that helps somebody during the wait for a conclusion one way or another that's alright.
Too me it doesn't look good. I wouldn't do it. But if somebody else wants to "gamble" that's their choice. I think all the preorder folks know the what they have gotten in to. They have been offered the chance to get out if they like.
Personally I wouldn't go in on a venture like this. Also I thought the protype was mediocre anyway. Not even considering the issues of pinbar and all the other baggage not worth Any risked dollars in my view for a RAZA . But it's the buyer's decision...
I still doubt any get out the door - but if they do purely done on ego. No line, etc - I still don't see how it gets done. Even if it would happen what becomes of these things down the road and where do parts or support come from ?
Boon or Boondoggle ?
July update will likely be just more of the same. Waiting on parts, certifications etc etc. Really doubt it will happen.
Quoted from pookycade:Food truck could be fantastic or it could be terrible. Problem is either way it won’t sell more than 150 games which is not going to cut it. They need a breakout hit of several thousand games. Unless it’s Mandalorian it ain’t gonna be that. Compare in contrast the excitement over remake of Fathom, or that of Alien. It’s just gonna be hard to dig out of this reputational hole they have dug no matter what they make, and especially for an unlicensed theme.
First they have to manufacture the very first copy of their first Title
Read the very first post on page #1 that started this thread. Look how much progress has been made in 3 years.
From that first post : "They are hoping to have their manufacturing facility finalized in the next 2-3 weeks."
"What type of build quality to expect from deeproot (hint: using a car comparison, they want to build a Ferrari and sell it at KIA prices)"
This is all goofy conjecture - they can't even produce one game. Talk of any other titles, licensed or not means nothing when they have not manufactured one single game in over 3 years.
Not one single game has gone out the door.
Good idea giving away the parts if they can't get games built. At least that's something. Being it's for a Charity is a nice gesture.
3 or 4 chances used up for Jpop and Deeproot is the money pit champion.
July update not that far away.... message or delay rhetoric will most likely be more of the same as before... 
Quoted from benheck:True. And he's been given SO many chances to redeem himself.
Yup - probably more than 3 or 4 chances, and he has more baggage than an airport carousel.
Quoted from Drewscruis:So are we going from 5 days of deeproot, to 5 years of no deeproot?
Better than half way there already ...
Big Update coming after 4th of July.
Is the next update just going to be the standard delay response citing problems with UL certification, waiting on parts, waiting on workers, and so on and so forth. Where's all the Octo manufacturing ? Waiting for the Octopus to arrive ?
Can't see them making it through the 5 years of Deeproot to get the first game out the doors. When will they finally throw in the towel - Any good guesses ?
Deeproot probably doesn't let anyone in because it's likely there is not much to see. No line, No assembly. Likely there is Nothing new since they let Cary Hardy and the others in months and months ago.
Quoted from benheck:If my theory is correct then the "we give up" update will be pretty soon.
Unless they are actually going for it in which case I'd expect more delay announcements.
I think they will string the preorders along another couple months and then throw in the towel. Running on ego yet.
Two or more months of delay announcements before they get to the end is my guess. It's all ego, try to save face, smoke clouds of excuses and blame failure on "circumstances beyond their control" or whatever to cement the end. "We tried" blah blah blah when they toss it in.
Quoted from denoument:I thought this was a deeproot thread...
They haven't gotten one game out the door and it's what, over 3 years now. Topic can go off track a little as there is nothing really to talk about other than failure to live up to all the promises and hyperbole.
Yeah - this is the Deeproot thread alright.
@ blueberry - better off taking your $15 a month and buy some bait - go fishing on the beach once a month ! Aloha
That lot is very close to an expressway interchange. Could be the cars are using it as a commuter lot, going to jobs where they actually make something.
Quoted from Mr68:Back on topic. Day after tomorrow is 1st of July. Will we hear from Deeproot this month?
I think they said update after July 4th Holiday
I Don't think I'd expect much different from previous update though
All that money spent and lots of PPP money to boot and not one game out the door. Not good. Does not bode well.
What's the difference between the Tech and Studio divisions ? is the Pinball operation part of 1 or both ?
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