Boulder, CO
Quoted from pin2d:October 13th, 2017
deeproot retracts its settlement offer to the Plaintiffs for reasons that will be disclosed at a later date.
(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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1 month later
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:I think there is already a rule against that, but when used in a humorous or possibly even more true version like this I'd give it a pass
And give it a pass when the quoted person thinks its funny.
1 week later
Quoted from deeproot:Thank you for your assessment, but you missed most of the points I tried to emphasize in the Webinar. Zidware customers who file a claim and are approved will get advanced access to play all titles *before* they have to commit to anything, or pay in any more money. It is completely no risk.
I would say you did get something right. We are sure that once Zidware Claimants see what they will be getting, most will likely max out the top tier. That benefits them; and admittedly us as well. I guess 'Sizzle without the zizzle' was overlooked in my last interview. I thought it was clever at least. Hehe.
--Robert/dT
Robert.
Zidware has contracts with Jpop customers containing their personal information. What efforts during all of this time have you made for direct contact with them?
And why the deadline to submit a claim? If someone you didn't reach out to past the due date has proof, I think they should be compensated.
Quoted from o-din:No doubt!
I mean where would we be if bands like Kiss and Aerosmith were no longer contributing to the wonderful world of rock music.
Have you seen the picture of Steven Tyler shirtless on the beach? Not all contributions are equal.
1 week later
Quoted from HeavyMetalBalls:Some of the comments on here are just ridiculous. If Deeproot never signed Jpop, zidware customers would of been left high and dry. And its voluntary, deeproot doesn't owe anything to anybody, regardless of hiring John. They go through the trouble to fix the situation by offering customers cash or machines just to be shit on by a lot of people... Unbelievable.
I don't believe its voluntary. In my opinion, taking care of Zidware debt is a part of Jpop's employment agreement. And this may delight the Jpop haters but as naive as I know Jpop to be, it's my guess that Deeproot is taking advantage of him by promising to be his saviour. Possible example: Zidware US Patents which Deeproot posted they are buying. I'll guess they paid one dollar or some nominal fee along with a verbal promise to get Jpop out of legal trouble. (Note: I have no evidence of any of this and I do admit to having a suspicious nature).
No intelligent business person digs into their pocket out of simple generosity. What a ridiculous claim and there has to be a motive. Especially when they go begging to the financial markets for investment money.
So far, Deeproot has shown themselves to be a manufacturer of smoke and mirrors. I see nothing of substance and it only seems a man behind the curtain pulling levers of flames and thunder noise. I am a huge sceptic at this point but I hope they prove me wrong by becoming successful and making all of Jpop's victims whole.
We'll see how they do as their self-imposed deadline of 18 months approaches. Was it July of 2019?
Quoted from toyotaboy:this is honestly John's best chance of getting out of this giant mess.
Yes, absolutely and I'm one of the few people that has given Jpop credit in the past for trying to right his wrongs, even though I'm suing him.
I'm not forgiving or forgetting the lies JPOP told straight to my face nor his deception and unethical business methods. But I can departmentalize my anger and admire Jpop for trying to rise from failure while doing the best he can to support his family.
Unfortunately for John, he is a spectacular fuck up outside of designing a game. If Deeproot says they can manage him, I say great, give them a chance and let’s see what they can do.
But if people are only partially satisfied in recovery or if people are shut out for some flimsy loophole reason, then I don't think Jpop will ever receive redemption. And much of that blame will fall to Deeproot having now taken on his responsibilities.
Quoted from iceman44:Deeproot 575 Fund, LLC per SEC public filing
Filing is as of 8/8/17. You can see plenty of $$ has been raised so far for this "alternative investment"
42 total investors of which 16 are "non accredited" and at an average investment of approx. $159,000 per investor
Gotta give em credit for promoting and raising those funds
That's the first positive indicator I've seen outside of the hyperbole. Good for Deeproot and I will follow with interest.
I still maintain they will never make their 18 month deadline for direct sales, especially of multiple titles. But at least they have something legitimate to point to now.
Quote from webpage: "In the coming weeks, deeproot Tech will complete the acquisition of some of Zidware's assets, including the IP related to the games".
1 week later
Quoted from spfxted:Zidware Claims Update
Hi!
We want to thank the 21 people who have filed claims thus far. Of the 21, 15 have been approved and we anticipate the remaining 6 will be approved shortly. We believe there are ~78 non-plaintiffs that have not yet filed claims. If you are one of those non-plaintiffs, please do file a claim whether or not you think you qualify or have enough proof. Please let us try to help you.
Please see here for the Goodwill Terms: https://zidware.deeproottech.com/
Please click here to Start a Claim: https://zidware.deeproottech.com/claim/create
Thank you!
--deeproot Pinball
Ted, I'm curious about these updates you have received and posted. I didn't think you were in on any of Jpop's games or had a claim. Matter of fact, I'm fairly confident you were not in on any of this.
Just curious...
Quoted from Aurich:I'm hardly a Heighway cheerleader
Quoted from Aurich:If Robert wants to start a pinball company, more power to him. I know from personal experience that it's not easy.
You were a contract employee working from your home in California to do the artwork, for a company in the United Kingdom. What was your most difficult task, getting up on stage at Expo with Andrew Heighway?
I've seen you hint and mislead at so many different things over the years concerning your role with Heighway. You made it seem as if you did everything in the company except the artwork. And now you're hinting and pretending about this? - What could you possibly know about bootstrapping this company from your cozy chair in California? ...I mean, besides a phone call from Andrew crying the end is near.
Quoted from Aurich:I do. Is that so terrible? They gambled, they lost, so it goes.
Is this how you also feel toward all of the Alien people that are being jerked around by Heighway after trusting you and your blatant sales pitching here? Were Heighway customers fully informed of future events as you seem to have been with Jpop?
And recently you've begun crying victim on Pinside because you have never been paid by Heighway. My, oh my, looks like you were duped and are no better than any of us.
You sit in judgment of the Jpop people and yet you trusted Andrew Heighway and you encouraged others to do the same. Unbelievable.
1 week later
1 month later
Quoted from SirScott:Did they ever announce what their "Quad Assembly" is going to be?
Four guys, one screwdriver. (the beverage)
What if Nordman were to leave for personal reasons like if his wife were to become ill or any life changing event?
I'd hate to see unfair conspiracies coming from Pinside based on the superficial... And please know that it wasn't just Nordman abruptly leaving Heighway, it was his somewhat ambiguous answers as to why he left.
I realise everyone is trigger happy right now but let's not jump to conclusions based on recent Heighway Pinball events.
As far as people filing a claim for what they are owed, I really don't see the issue at this point. Each of us needs to do what is best for ourselves and if I had not been a part of the lawsuit, I would be filing a claim. I'm not saying this will have a good outcome as I don't know but realistically, it's your best option right now, IMO.
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:Now im curious.
When will we see a game from this company?
Supposed to see 5 different model games at Texas Pinball Festival 2019 and available for purchase with no wait time. That's my recollection and I would feel better if Robert or someone can confirm or correct me.
You are not alone in being surprised. That's what I said. - Again, I am looking for confirmation or correction on this.
Quoted from Mr68:Supposed to see 5 different model games at Texas Pinball Festival 2019 and available for purchase with no wait time. That's my recollection and I would feel better if Robert or someone can confirm or correct me.
Well, I was hoping Robert would comment on this and maybe he will later. But I tried to find some confirmation on my quote and I cannot. My memory tells me I heard that information on a podcast interview that Robert did, but the one I listened to (again) didn't have it. And I've wasted too much time on this already. Therefore, I retract my comment and this will hopefully teach me not to shoot from the hip again.
2 months later
Quoted from iceman44:I agree with that! Because Jpop already poked one eye out
Why am I reminded of Kill Bill just now?
1 Elle_Driver (resized).jpg2 KillingBill-670x278 (resized).jpg3 Kill-Bill-Vol-2 (resized).jpg
Quoted from spfxted:It is unfortunate that the Plaintiffs chose to reject the settlement and ultimately choose nothing over something.
It might be better if you knew what you were talking about before expressing your opinion.
Quoted from Only_Pinball:He was quoting from the settlement summary by deeproot.
Quotation marks or attribution might help.
Quoted from deeproot:Curious... facts aside, is he not allowed to have or post an *opinion* that you don’t approve of?
Its unprofessional of you to try and provoke me, Robert.
3 weeks later
Quoted from jimjim66:Being able to easily change games by easily swapping playfield and art packages, and keeping the costs down would be awesome.
Quoted from Brijam:This is another idea that sounds good in theory but in reality really sucks.
First of all, have you ever swapped out a playfield? This will never be an easy thing to do, no matter how clever the idea. Playfields are massive.
On sale now:
https://www.multimorphic.com/p3-pinball-platform/
1 week later
3 months later
Quoted from frolic:I never used RGP so I never saw that originally, but those that posted there get "I told you so" rights
No they don't, not really. They spoke in generalized terms and they were just guessing at the time and they had a chance at being correct.
Those same people also chanted incessantly before this at how Gene Cunningham would never get Big Bang Bar made and delivered. Google, Pigs Will Never Fly and BBB for that shit show.
Some of the know it all people bragging in this thread also predicted the end to Jersey Jack a few years ago. Some of them promised us repeatedly that Heighway Pinball was the greatest company ever.
Congratulations to all of the blind squirrels. - I always enjoy your bragging as you back-fill with detail "after the fact".
Quoted from Sinestro:JJP is slow at everything....including going out of business.
Interpret that as you will.
I interpret that as extremely funny. And like all great humor it has a grain of truth to it.
Well done.
Quoted from taylor34:To be fair on BBB, that never would have been made had people not gone out of their way to save it. I don't think Gene by himself was going to get it done, much in the same way those initial Magic Girls weren't going to be built without American Pinball.
Those naysayers aren't wrong. Without outside assistance, was BBB going to be built? No. Magic girl? No. JJP games after Woz? No. If someone is going to fail and gets 'bailed out', that means the naysayers were right. Just like the banks in 2008, they were going to fail without a bailout. In fact it kind of reaffirms that the naysayers were right about the initial business plan.
When the initial magic girl listing came out, I thought he was doing this on the side and making a simplistic game with great art, because there was no way that someone could develop a full sized legit pinball machine on $230k. Way too much software/mechanical development cost to make that. I figured it would be something similar to Whoa Nellie or Vacation America. I didn't know it was a complete game till later on.
I no longer have the heart to go back and forth on Pinside. I will only say that you seem to be rationalizing the results to fit a narrative and you have overlooked some of my points.
Best wishes.
Quoted from flynnibus:frank f was the voice of reason!
Quoted for my amusement.
Quoted from Yelobird:which they didn’t need to clean up his mess but did.
Not yet.
3 months later
Quoted from Fulltilt:So you Texas Pinballers come across this?
Interesting is an understatement.[quoted image]
That's CoinTakers truck.
1 month later
Quoted from lpeters82:I thought it might be interesting to try to date just how long it's been since JPop designed a full-size functional pinball machine.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Last JPop game is from 2006.
Magic Girl, 2017. It functioned, just not very well.
Quoted from PinMonk:Define "functioned."
Like a marble in a shoe box.
Quoted from rosh:I think you meant to say . . .
I edited my original comment. Thanks for the clarity.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:For everybody else there's Lexy Lightspeed. Don't exactly see those flying into everybody's collections.
Wait. Does this mean I'm not one of the cool kids?
I’ve been trying to collect my thoughts about the Jpop hate in this thread. For me, I’m mostly over it and I have better reasons than most to be angry. I’m continuing along with my lawsuit against the man and I do seek justice. But at this point I’m weary of my posturing in the past and I’m especially tired of these useless, drive-by, Pinside out bursts of hate. Example, the non-sequitur comment a few pages back about Deeproot needing to fire Jpop.
One of the reason I mention this is because I sense an evolution of improving attitudes here towards Jpop. It seems to me that more and more people are now speaking up in supporting John. And I get it, as I see reasons to support him and Deeproot too.
Anyway, I find the recent attitude change here interesting from where we began long ago, along with my own evolution.
Whether I collect my judgment against Jpop in time or not, I intend to purchase a RAZA or other Deeproot machine, pending inspection and production of course. - Do as you like but those are my thoughts.
Note: I still hate Whysnow. Hopefully I can maintain some street cred with that.
Quoted from iceman44:No but he stayed at a Holiday Inn last night!
He "led" the lawsuit group which in my opinion is a waste of time and money. Years later and nothing.
I and others chose the DR "credit" route that Robert offered.
The lawsuit was filed years before Deeproot Pinball existed and long before a credit was even an option. To present them as an, either or choice is misleading, which you often do on Pinside. And without the lawsuit, the offer of a credit might never have come to anyone.
Would I change things with the benefit of hindsight? Maybe.
Some of us are men of action while others prefer to flap their gums on the internet.
Quoted from iceman44:That's not true actually. You still had the opportunity to settle with DR and did chose not to. That was your choice. You now have the lawsuit and no credit.
And you don't know the details nor any privileged information of those dealings. But here you are once again, making assumptions and acting like you know it all.
Quoted from Mr68:To present them as an, either or choice is misleading, which you often do on Pinside.
Quoted from Rondogg:When you see the deeproot thread has 100+ new posts and think there must be some new news. Nope. Robert doesn't even have to chime in non sequiturs to keep this thread going...
Thank goodness there is no squabbling going on.
1 week later
Quoted from benheck:spent 30 hours "thinking about fonts" for ACNC. I made a custom comic font and tested the kerning (spacing) of every letter pair so they wouldn't overlap on screen. I even tested "impossible" pairs like XX. Why? Because I knew the programmer WOULDN'T think about that.
When it comes to ignoring details "you snooze you loose"
Ben. I'm pretty sure he was referring to criticism of other people's or competitor's fonts and letters.
Who could ever forget Fontgate on Ghostbusters.
Do you remember in the good old days of the Jpop thread, years before Deeproot even existed and long before making a settlement offer? Do you remember the victims relentlessly being shamed by a cast of rotating Pinsider’s as spineless and called stupid? Do you remember those who claimed, after the fact, that they knew Jpop was a bad guy from day one and we were stupid not to have known?
Seemed like each week some random keyboard vigilante would bounce into that thread and yell at us to sue his ass because that’s exactly what they would do. I think my favorite term back then was us being called a, Jpop Apologist.
– Yep, the good old days.
Quoted from Aurich:I think suing him is stupid. If you lost your money just admit you gambled it away, and should have always been prepared to lose it. Move on.
1 month later
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:Worst Airport on planet. I think it holds my record for taxing to gate after landing, miles. And my longest gate transfer every, 2 terminals and trams and miles of walking.
Ugh. Try Midway in Chicago for punishment. LaGuardia and LAX for close runner ups with honorable mention to Atlanta. I'd rather drive sometimes.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Barracuda72:Not sure if this has been posted here yet or not... Am NOT going through all 78 pages to see if has either. If you hadn't seen it, here it is, if you have, here it is again. Was posted to a couple of Months ago, so...
EDit: Found that is has been posted here already, but not sure how to delete. Sorry, guys.
No need to edit with an apology my friend. Your original comment was appropriate for Pinside and perfectly stated. - Made me smile.
Quoted from pin2d:Ok let's try this again!
The deeproot Tour: Whitewood Wonderland and the Cart Before the Horse
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/the-deeproot-tour-whitewood-wonderland-and-the-cart-before-the-horse-3/
(plz let me know if you get any redirects to spam sites)
Direct link with no issue for me. - Great article. Intriguing.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:I used the option to mute a small handfull of people and my experience on pinside has massively improved since then.
I work with certain others to mute me and when I check to see if they have, I find that incredibly satisfying.
1 week later
Quoted from iceman44:The litigators will NOT. EVER. Thx to a stupid strategy they took
Quoted from iceman44:The secret litigation group have NOTHING except wasted legal fees as I advised yrs ago
Quoted from iceman44:The other nameless dopes that led people down the wrong path should be ashamed of themselves
We can take care of ourselves. Not sure what business it is of yours nor your obsession over other people's dealings.
Quoted from iceman44:and the "dickish" comment was aimed at really just one person
I know you didn't intend to but you just admitted that you're a troll and a Pinside bully. Not a shock to most of us and you're probably the last to find out.
So why don't you man up and take it private rather than play childish games involving all of Pinside.
.
.
Screenshot to account for the editing and comment deleting that you're so famous for.
Pinside Screenshot Troll admission. (resized).png
Quoted from Fulltilt:I initially had Jpop ONLY. Why in the hell did I think that would work out is another story.
When I now look at the Deep Root team that has been assembled, I think that if this is a total disaster there will be a lot of mud on the faces.
You went from no hope, to some pretty good hope. If all things were equal, I'd be right there with you.
I like your chances.
1 week later
Quoted from teekee:My friend also received his full refund today... pretty amazing!
It is very cool and nice to see. I wonder what the breakdown is between those who took cash and those who opted to wait for a machine. My gut tells me most would have taken the machine but it's likely we'll never know.
Well done, Deeproot.
1 week later
Another casualty of Pinside?
zzzzzzzzzzDeeproot (resized).png
.
https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/deeproot/forum
Quoted from jonesjb:I had posted this question before but never got a response... Was Deeproot’s logo designed in house or by an external agency?
There's an incredible amount of skill and nuance that goes into creating logo design, things that aren't obvious to the non-graphic designer. Some might say that designing a logo is easy, but thinking it's that simple could be considered an example of the Dunning Kruger effect:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Wasn't there an earlier version of the logo with a gear in it that then changed? That to me suggests that someone else thought the original version wasn't considered effective enough to keep. I'm not saying that is the case here, and I bring no malice, just trying to understand. I really wish great things for Deeproot Pinball, and am excited to see the innovations they bring to the industry. It's disappointing to see they will no longer be able to meet the 5 days of Deeproot event at Texas, I just hope they haven't over promised and I hope we're not seeing the Dunning Kruger effect applied to pinball creation.
Not sure what you're going on about but it was changed some time ago. Here is their current logo.
zzzzzzdeeproot-Pinball-Logo (resized).png**WARNING** Kaneda Alert. - Avert your eyes if you're sensitive.
Robert Mueller sent an email to Kaneda which is read verbatim on his most recent podcast, Episode 389, "Just Wait". It concerns playfield issues that are presently happening in the industry and what Deeproot intends to do. I found it interesting, worthwhile, and on topic for this thread. Imagine that, on topic.
https://soundcloud.com/kanedapinball
You can fast forward to about the 20 minute mark to get to Roberts email.
Since Robert has bailed on Pinside, which I believe was a smart move by him, I think it's better served for him to promote Deeproot via a written news release such as this. No judgment on content but I hope to see/hear more of this.
Quoted from fosaisu:So we all thought, but then they were having clear chipping issues with TNA. Playfield integrity seems to be a struggle for everyone these days.
The TNA playfield issue was quickly resolved by Spooky and Charlie owned up to it. So far ACNC's playfields are only getting the highest of compliments.
Which tells me if they can figure it out, then so should the big boys.
2 months later
Quoted from Whysnow:What is the boardset they are using?
I would imagine they're making their own proprietary boards and operating system. For a company's long term viability it's the smart move
Quoted from Whysnow:Also, what are the source parts?
I don't think the general public cares at this point. I don't.
Game looks fantastic IMO. Long ways to go yet but they have exceeded my expectations and I hunger for more.
Quoted from o-din:Who knew while the rest of the world was asleep, neon would be making such a huge comeback.
I happen to love the color scheme I see on RAZA. Very much so and its one of the first things I noticed in the pictures.
Stern's color palette choices are antiquated and played out, seemly forever now, with a few exceptions. IMO
Quoted from o-din:Then have we got the grocery getter for you![quoted image]
Nah. The store is only 3 miles away and she needs the exercise.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:People saying they won't buy a JPOP game due to principles and then they go and play their Ghostbusters.......
This gave me my first smile of the day. Thank you and well done.
Quoted from Fulltilt:OMG is that Jpop?!
[quoted image]
Nope. Thats Eddie Cramer from New York. Most people here don't know him but he's a great guy and I'm loving to see some of the original RAZA artwork in the game. Especially seeing him there.
1 week later
Quoted from Roostking:For the record, I didnt delete.
Mod team, what is the maximum # of "bumps" one can have before the post is censured? Is this posted in the rules? "Not 10, but more than 5?"
Not trying to be an arse, but can anyone refer me to the "Max # of bumps" Rule?
Thanks in advance. I await your information!!!
Your argument is akin to a guy before a traffic judge for speeding 14 miles an hour over the limit. He wants the ticket thrown out because there is no written statute for 14 or any incremental number.
Over bumping was just an expression the moderator chose to explain that specific incident. If you want a specific rule violation, it would most likely fall under the Broken Record category. And even that I would guess is one of the implied rules as it would be impossible to detail every possible scenario.
Just deal with your punishment or open up a moderator feedback thread. You've been moderated on Pinside several times now to know how things work.
Several years ago, a rookie manufacturing company called Jersey Jack came out with their first prototype, a machine called Wizard of Oz.
Pinside went hysterical about weak flippers and it was the end of the world.
.
Déjà fucking vu
4 weeks later
1 week later
Kaneda asked, "How are the investors feeling right now? Are they on board for the long run?"
RM replied: "There are no investors in pinball. It's company money, it's my money.
There's additional verbiage in that one minute segment by each, but that's the meat of it. Personally, I found it ambiguous and now understand the confusion.
Go to the 53 minute mark and listen for yourself.
Quoted from razorsedge:I mean, Who Cares if the detached "investors" lose or profit, really. They know they are in a risk/investment game.
I certainly don't care where Roberts money is coming from, don't know why any other pinhead should care either. If DR make some good games so be it, Bonus!. If the investors lose a pile of coin... well s#it happens!. I don't care one bit about that.
Is anyone paying deposits? ... no? .... well if they were then maybe where the money is coming from would be somehow relevant to be raising every 5 minutes in this pinside topic. Give the investment speculation rubbish a rest how about...
It's a great pity the conversation isn't going along as you would like. But this is what Pinside does and there are many other people here besides you. Most people understand this and they politely move along to other comments or threads.
Quoted from zr11990:All this time and all this talk I have yet to see a pic of a pin. When and what are thes people supposed to be producing
deeproot_Pinball_Raza_Full_PF_11.2019 (resized).pngQuoted from JodyG:How quickly everyone forgets about the grand promises and hyperbole made by Heighway Pinball.
And his Pinside stooges.
Quoted from Yelobird:Financial talk aside our Deeproot playfield arrived today and I must say it is refreshing to see pinball art like this alive and well. Really is rather beautiful in person. Have not had a chance to play the game yet but Very much looking forward to it!![quoted image]
Beautiful.
Is that one of the placeholder Mirco playfields or an original Deeproot?
2 months later
Why do people keep talking about Deeproot not taking pre-order money, as if its some divine sign of things to come? It's an irrelevant suggestion and yet it is the most often quoted opinion throughout this thread. Multimorphic, American Pinball, Homepin, Chicago Gaming and others are not, and have never been touted in this manner. I don't know how Haggis Pinball is doing it but I strongly suspect they will also not be pre-order.
If you want to point to Deeproot's legitimacy, the fact that they have publicly raised around $30 million from investors is where you should hang your hat. That's substantial seed money and goes a long ways if used wisely.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:I‘d say, since noone here invested any money in them, it‘s none of our business.
Agreed but 95% of Pinside threads are none of our business. lol
Quoted from Fulltilt:Cause they didn’t and it was??
I lost $9500 to Zidware and Robert offered me compensation of 2 machines if/when they make them. I don’t give a shit otherwise. I asked nothing from DeepRoot and was offered something I had written off as a bad decision. I can wait and see. Yeah, it could become divine intervention or not.
Yes, I understand that and gave you a thumbs up. But my comment had nothing to do with the Zidware compensation.
You either missed my point or I failed to express myself adequately, or maybe a little of both.
All good my friend. I hope Deeproot delivers for everyone as I have been saying all long.
1 week later
Dennis Nordman made this steam-punk sculpture and I bought it the moment he announce it for sale on Facebook. This picture is his cover photo from his Facebook profile and I sometimes wonder if he regrets selling it. I asked him to autographed it for me and he used a Dremmel tool on the metal base if you can visualize that. His signature looks like an earth quake was going on. LOL
He is hands down the nicest pinball celebrity I've ever met, at any show. And one of the nicest most gracious gentleman I've ever met period.
49948454_2297897353777852_4778827836142125056_n (resized).jpgIts pinball podcast not a 60 Minutes ambush. I don't always agree with Kaneda but I always find him entertaining. Maybe I'm the only one that notices but his unfiltered, quips from the Id, I find hysterical. Better than the subject matter sometimes. I'm looking forward to his Friday show.
Quoted from JodyG:Major positive in this interview is that there were no big foot-in-mouth moments, and Robert was very complimentary of others in the industry and even his own employees. Kinder, gentler Robert is a more likeable Robert. Definitely a positive step in the right direction. He's also paying his employees during the shutdown.
Completely agree. Life has a way with beating us all down and its intelligent people that can learn and adapt. I agree this was Robert's finest moment so far and I have altered my attitude towards him and Deeproot. Kaneda asked some difficult questions while being respectful and Robert answered them appropriately.
I really enjoyed the show.
2 weeks later
Quoted from DakotaMike:Two Thoughts:
1) Regarding the Kaneda RM interview.
Deeproot had to approve the release of the interview before Kaneda could put it up. Normally, Kaneda puts up his episodes the same or next day that he records them. With the Robert interview, it was several days later before it was posted. The only reason he would take that long to post the podcast is if he was waiting on DR's approval. That would also explain why Kaneda didn't follow-up on questionable statements, and why he didn't give Robert any pushback whatsoever. And instead posted his rebuttals (as limited as they were) in a separate follow-up episode. One that wouldn't require DR's approvals.
For all K-mans talk of telling it like it is, and not shilling for manufacturers, Kaneda did compromise those values in order to get the Robert interview.
Which brings me to the next question.
2) Why is Kaneda the only podcaster that Robert will allow to interview him? It seems like a strange choice to me. Especially when there are, or were, several other podcasts that have close to Chris' numbers. And there are so many people that refuse to listen to Kaneda on principle. You'd think RM would want to capture as large an audience as possible and at least hit up one or two other shows. Also, RM doesn't go on pinside because he says it's a sewer, and yet Kaneda was one of the biggest trolls on pinside before he was banned. Seems weird to allow a former pinside-troll to interview you, when people like Chris are why RM left pinside in the first place. Strange. I find RM and Kaneda's entire relationship to be strange.
Anyone have any additional insight into any of this, or into how RM and Kaneda got hooked up in the first place, or why RM doesn't go on TPN, or Loserkid, ect.?
No offense but that's a lot of speculation on your part and most of it I don't believe to be true or I just flat out disagree with it. Maybe someone else wants to respond in detail but it's way too much for me.
Quoted from Frax:Worth noting, seems like their website is down, but I did see this on their domain record:
Updated Date: 2020-04-24T00:31:17Z
Quoted from SunKing:Website is still down. Seems any DNS issues would have resolved by now. Hmmmmm...
Yeah, I've been following that also snice Frax pointed it out on April 26th. Good job, Frax Frax
Also down is Deeproot Tech
https://deeproottech.com/
Deeproot Funds
https://deeprootfunds.com/
And Deeproot Pinball
https://deeprootpinball.com/
The only one still up and running is Deeproot Studios but I don't see much there.
https://deeprootstudios.com/
Quoted from Frax:I was just done with having a website for anything. Don't regret getting rid of it.
I was glad to get rid of my website too and I got incredibly lucky with it. After I sold my business I had my web designer take everything down and put up a simple, This Website For Sale, along with my email. It was a total long shot and I expected to just let it expire. But about 2-3 months later I sold it to music company for a stupid price. - I'd rather be lucky than smart.
Congrats Deeproot, you're back up and running. How about giving us a taste? Multimorphic didn't let the Coronavirus or the TPF closing stop them from coming out with their new machine, Heist.
Quoted from wrb1977:they returned people the money they lost through Zidware!
While this is partially true, I think further explanation is needed. They returned *some* of the money and only to a few. As I recall, only 2 or 3 Pinsiders posted how they received their refund check. I'm certain that is not a full accounting but it is an indicator of how much has been paid. While I give them major props for doing that, it seems to me to be a drop in the bucket.
My guess is the majority of people opted to get a game instead of a refund. In other words, people have now returned to biting their fingernails while playing another waiting game.
2 weeks later
Quoted from hank527:Does anyone care at this point? All we get is noise and empty promises.
I think everybody wants to see how this movie will end. And I want Popadiuk to settle his debts with everyone.
1 week later
2 weeks later
2 weeks later
Quoted from John_I:So is it true that Nordman is out at Deeproot and in with CGC? That can't be a good omen if so.
I see it as a neutral omen for Deeproot.
Nordman is a hired gun and I mean that in a very good way. Since the closing of Williams, Bally, Midway, he's worked for Stern, Heighway, Spooky, Jersey Jack and Multimorphic before Deeproot and now at CGC. He also designed a game in 2017 for Valley Dynamo and I only mention that to allow some heads to explode.
I remember Pinside having a meltdown with conspiracies and doom predictions after Nordman left Jersey Jack. Turns out his contract with JJ had simply expired and there was no drama. Pure Pinside. LOL
With the exception of Heighway Pinball, Nordman quietly moved along from all of those companies, including Deeproot.
I admire his nomadic style and look forward to seeing what he produces at CGC.
Quoted from Mr68:I see it as a neutral omen for Deeproot
I'm kinda disappointed none of the spelling/grammar police got me on that one. Neutral Omen is an oxymoron I was proud to create.
1 week later
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:A year or 2 ago I asked my distributor if he was going to sell Deeproot games.
He said who?
I reached out to a notable distributor and asked him if he'd be selling Deeproot games. He said he wants to but there is nothing available for him to do so. That was about 2 months ago.
But then I seem to recall something about Deeproot selling direct to customers. Is my memory correct on that?
1 month later
Quoted from iceman44:No excuses. AP, Stern and Spooky all delivering games
I'll add Multimorphic, P3 to that list. And they may be a better comparison as they are a young company also based in Texas. Subjected to the same Texas state laws and Covid limitations, etc.
Both Deeproot and Multimorphic announced a new game to be revealed at the Texas Pinball Festival last March. TPF was canceled but Multimorphic adapted by following through and is delivering a hit game.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:I should be getting one in a couple months! They seem to have had a lot of orders of Heist
You will love it. I've had mine for about 3 months now and it's the best game I've owned in a very, very long time.
3 weeks later
Quoted from hank527:And Dennis left Heighway before they crashed and burned. Its a sign.
It's not a sign of anything other than Dennis is a talented designer and hired gun. Dennis also left Stern, JJP, Multimorphic and a few other companies that don't immediately come to mind.
Quoted from djd9617:Just chiming in to say that I also would welcome a crazylevi podcast.
I think he'd be great and I even suggested Levi do a podcast a few months ago on Pinside. The up/down voting to my comment was interesting...
But I have little doubt that he would bring politics into it and I would be one and done.
Quoted from nwpinball:I'm not sure why people feel the need to compare the newer companies to Stern, what we want is alternatives to Stern for more variety and innovation, not more of the same.
Up-Vote posted and I agree with your sentiment. But it's been Deeproot themselves that has targeted Stern for comparison and have done so since the very beginning.
Upcoming themes are always compelling but I'm more interested in getting a peek under the hood. There's been talk of innovation from a ground floor start up company and I want to see what fresh ideas those respected designers have come up with.
Quoted from iceman44:Send me a PM if after the announcement if DR is not willing to fulfill their obligations under the GOODWILL AGREEMENT on Monday in a timely fashion
Which has already been breached
Quoted from razorsedge:-Deeproot has an updated Alien ready to go I rekon, P.Bros layout and basis
Quoted from razorsedge:Heighway Alien Re-Loaded september 2020 FTW!
Alien wasn't even on my radar but I like your guess. Some of the pieces to the puzzle you describe do seem to fit that theory. Well done.
If true, we could also speculate that Nordman got to go back in and address some of the issues that caused him to leave Heighway. Maybe even add to the game?
Yikes, I'd be a Deeproot customer on that one.
Quoted from benheck:I'm hopeful the people burned by John will be made whole with a delivery of a RAZA game. I think John "sold" around 150 of them.
There are also vendors that still need to be compensated too.
Quoted from CLEllison:I mean no disrespect to you (or anyone for that matter) but why would anyone trust Kaneda? In my personal opinion that guys opinion has been on the opposite end of the spectrum of mine more often than not. And I highly doubt DR would want any info leaking out and if he's doing it that's not the way to earn friends. If I remember correctly long ago wasn't it said DR would release one model and offer everyone a complete machine and best experience etc etc etc?
There are plenty of Kaneda, Good versus Evil threads on Pinside already. Please join one. Let's not clutter this thread up with more.
Quoted from PoppyCock:I wont be able to watch this live reveal at noon so where does one go to get caught up with unbiased opinions and commentary? Certainly not here! Can you watch these things over?
My sense is that anything we get will be through someone's filter. Probably the most neutral filter will be from, This Week in Pinball, which I look forward to reading. I also will be tuning in to Kaneda and Cary Hardy for their thoughts.
And of course I will read Pinside so I can shake my head, roll my eyes, laugh, cry, and get frustrated by redundant questions, comments, misinformation and going off topic.
I look forward to it all
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Presenting the message in their original format:
[quoted image]
wow.....just, wow.
Quoted from SmallyBells:How is Iceman taking this news?
a5923d56033d14b668e36546fa973aff-1024x751 (resized).jpgQuoted from dugmar:You seem like a kind, nice guy. Want to get a beer sometime?
FYI. You'd have to buy.
Quoted from Russell:Overall, I'm left with more respect for Stern, Spooky, JJP, CGC and AP...
Why does everyone keep overlooking, Multimorphic P3?
Russell, you need to stop over sometime and play my Heist game and Lexi. Real pinball innovation is already here folks.
Quoted from yancy:Those look like crap too.
IN MY OPINION, relax people.
You are especially invited to come over too.
What a difference a day makes.
After watching Cary Hardy's review and reading TWIP, I'm not ready to write Deeproot off yet.
Some awkward things no doubt and some things I hate like the floating cabinet head. But some cool stuff too and maybe some things will be better in person than in pictures.
Best of all, I'm back to being hopeful for the Jpop victims who are owed games. Yesterday I was writing their obituary and today I'm not so sure.
Edit/Add: Despite my new feelings I'm still laughing at some of the funny sarcasm being bantered.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:I don't need a licensed theme - But you have to hit the trifecta with an original theme for it to work:
- Theme still has to be good
- Art has to be great
- Gameplay has to be really fun
Most recent original themes have not hit all 3
Dialed In, Food Truck, Octoberfest are not there - they all missed on 1 or 2 of those points
Heist is actually a cool theme with great artwork that I would consider if there was one in my area to play
Completely agree but lets make it a quadfecta and add sounds to the list. I can get down right stupid about a great sound package.
And for those that don't care for the front speakers, I'm going to reserve judgment. If nothing else it tells me that Deeproot is putting a lot of thought into all of this.
Quoted from NeilMcRae:and thus unfortunately those present end up being part of a shill process. They may not have chosen to do that but that's sadly the end result. Seen it done many times.
The word Shill implies something sinister and I find that wholly unfair to Cary Hardy and Jeff at TWIP. I've been following them both for a long time and that is not my sense at all.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:I will admit... the games looks a lot better in the videos than it does in static images
Artwork is beautiful .. who is the artist?
I'm pretty certain its Jeremy Packer aka Zombie Yeti. I remember he and Deeproot coming to terms long ago.
Quoted from frolic:My opinion is that it isn't. It's inspired by his original design, but all re-done, most likely by nameless deeproot artists (who don't get their name on the backglass).
You could be right. Their agreement was for Magic Girl and maybe I made a wrong assumption because Jeremey had also done a lot of artwork on RAZA and AIW.
Quoted from frolic:Found the original Zombie Yeti version. It's actually quite different.[quoted image]
Looks like Vanna White turning a letter.
Quoted from LoveNeverDiesGuy:Do you know how many times I've seen noobs hit the lockdown bar when a ball drains?
My drunk friends will not appreciate you calling them noobs.
Quoted from Bublehead:The idea of connecting to the phone has some interesting possibilities.
I often play pinball to get away from my phone. Ture story.
Quoted from kvan99:Not to mention this company is the only way Jpop's victims will ever get to see anything for all that money they threw away.
You mean the money they entrusted and Jpop threw away.
Quoted from Kkoss24:Soooooo......what exactly goes down at these pinball shows I just got into the hobby and am wondering what I’ll be walking into when they open again ?
[quoted image][quoted image]
Bad hygiene and a 50 to 1 man woman ratio.
Quoted from benheck:That's why your rake, steering wheel, shifter, gun handle, dildo, pan handle, drinking glass... ARE ROUNDED.
One of these things is not like the others
Imagine for a moment you are one of the reporters that attended. Six months or a year from now, Deeproot reaches out and offers you free airfare, hotel and travel expenses to return. Everything is solid but, you have to sign another NDA.
What do you do? And how would Deeproot go about finding credible replacements.
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:but unless you have a highly-skilled penis
Someone alert Ben Heck to another round object meant for humans to grasp.
Feel free to go back and up-vote MapleSyurp on this comment posted October 20, 2018.
Two highlights:
Quoted from MapleSyrup:Unfortunately, Robert has talked a lot of gobbledygook, and corporate nonsense that simply doesn’t fly when it comes to hard manufacturing.
Quoted from MapleSyrup:I don’t know Robert, and I wish him zero ill will... but he sounds like a wealthy Foodie that has decided to buy prime real estate and open the City’s “hottest new Eatery” while knowing nothing about running a restaurant.
You can read his comment in its entirety at this link:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/35#post-4644057
Quoted from iceman44:No idea but i'm speculating Deeproot Pinball would be an "affiliate", along with Deeproot Tech and Deeproot Studios?
Didn't they close one of those Deeproot company's? The one in Utah?
Quoted from Fytr:*dead hooker*
I'd buy that over Food Truck.
I just want something to eat.
1. See inside your refrigerator from anywhere, shop for groceries, search for recipes and preheat your oven – all from the Family Hub™
2. Stream your favorite music apps on the Family Hub™ and enjoy premium speaker-quality listening
3. Mirror shows, movies, or live sports from your Samsung TV or phone on the Family Hub™
samsung-family-hub-refrigerator-rf28nhedbsg-aa-6323-feat (resized).jpg
Quoted from DS_Nadine:15 days till virtual expo (and next deeproot update)!
I must of missed the announcement for the next update. Could someone please confirm this.
Under the list of 2020 Expo Vendors and Supporters, Deeproot is not among them.
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:I skipped a few pages and now I am confused.
Is Deep Root in the car business now?
Don't be silly. Deeproot is the new Bed, Bath and Beyond.
Quoted from o-din:Anybody have any Saab stories they would like to share?
Yes. Deeproot failed to make its deadline....again.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:If you listen to Carys latest Video this event never was intended to be a launch.
They showed them (the 6 folks) stuff including their anticipated launch date.
So it „only“ was intended to be a reveal.
I know it‘s semantics but in some ways it‘s important if you want to hold them true to their word, like games shipping within 2 weeks after „launch“.
Clever semantics but it doesn't account for the expired Goodwill Agreement, part two.
Quoted from pinballkim:I would be very tempted to buy any pin with Crumb artwork.
Me too but evidently the moderators don't like the idea. 
I'd actually like a Robert Crumb game machine with all of his artwork.
Quoted from SLCpunk2113:They sure do have egg on their face.
That's the wizard mode in Food Truck.
Quoted from wrb1977:I also am planning on buying a RAZA, especially since I get an employee discount!
I really appreciate you coming forward as a Deeproot employee. I'm certain you're limited in most of the things you can say and reveal but I feel some confidence now with you here. Not a lot of confidence but some at least.
You must understand that the radio silence from Deeproot, combined with some serious red flags, leaves your company vulnerable to speculation and criticism here. And jokes about them which is where I'm at to entertain myself while we wait in a vacuum.
Also, this orwellian, autocratic control of the narrative is horrible PR for a supposedly family friendly business.
None of this means I'm a hater or wish Deeproot to fail. On the contrary as I know competition is good for all of us and I'm a likely RAZA buyer. I love the art and look of that game.
But Deeproot needs a spokesperson that can roll with the punches and provide some transparency and goodwill.
I nominate you as I have always enjoyed your style here on Pinside. Best wishes.
Quoted from wrb1977:I appreciate your kind words...thanks! I’m just trying to stay positive like some others here as I think they do have tremendous potential. You almost have me convinced I actually do work for deeproot!!! Well played or just in case my sarcasm went a little too far and to clarify for some (not saying you) that just skim thru the posts...I am NOT associated with deeproot in any way and was just playing along with those that thought I was!
Shame on me, I missed your sarcasm. All good my friend and I stand by my comment in general.
Quoted from arcademojo:How many people are still owed games at this point? Can’t be that many.
I recently used the search feature in this thread using the term "Goodwill" to see how many people accepted the cash payout. I found only two people.
And having followed this thread its my strong sense the majority of people opted for the game(s).
I limited my time in doing this search and maybe someone else could double check me.
Quoted from iceman44:The reason I accepted the agreement Kim was to support pinball and they were local
Whatever happens I’m cool with it
I wasn't being critical, Doug. I was simply responding to Arcademojo's comment.
Quoted from arcademojo:How many people are still owed games at this point? Can’t be that many.
Fact is, if I wasn't involved with the Jpop lawsuit, I would have done the very same as you and the others.
Quoted from adborto:Humm... whatever happened to the customer is always right?!?
So far as I can tell, they don't have any.
Quoted from BrewNinja:I think what a lot of you keep forgetting is that ultimately, deeproot owes nobody nothing.
While this was true in the beginning I no longer see it that way. According to Deeproot's Goodwill agreement, they owe the money now. They have publicly and contractually assumed the debt and have made promises. And with each failed deadline, its Lucy yanking the football away.
Jpop set everybody on a roller coaster to no-where and so far Deeproot has only laid additional track.
Quoted from switch3:They have been talking about the hammerproof non dimpling playfields for so long, but they still haven't worked out the formula. I'm absolutely no expert, but by the looks of it I don't think it's very likely they will invent the clearcoat formula any time soon, if they've been working on it for this long without succeeding. If it was easy, deeproot or someone else would have invented it already.
Someone already did invent the correct formula. Haggis Pinball on a low budget, garage type set up.
Quoted from JodyG:Did anyone receive their t-shirts?
B1VMTBKtipS._AC_CLa_2140,2000_51C1CwCMC8L.png_0,0,2140,2000+0.0,0.0,2140.0,2000.0_UL1500_ (resized).jpgQuoted from toddtuckey:I have remained quiet about this company but I want to now post my thoughts. The Deeproot company was formed by a bunch of talented people that share a common love. ALL of you know that! Who would commit hours and hours and hours of energy and time with zero $$$ gratification except someone who lives moves and breathes Pinball? We all love different aspects of Pinball. I can't play for shit, but my fascination, which continues to grow, is the overall beauty of the layout, design, electronics programming pushed to it's limit at the time of design, innovation (yes, even the awful Bally Motordome had that totally unique, not done before, skill level selection), and artistic beauty of the entire package. For sixty years or more, they were built for ONE purpose--to make MONEY--that's it! No one cares about the game except how much money it made each week in that cashpan! Most of the world had no idea who designed it, or the music, programming art, etc. No one really cared!! This is why neat, fun games like Spirit, Tx Sector, Transporter, Torpedo Alley, Class of 1822, etc etc, disappeared fast because they didn't make money! But now, COLLECTORS and PINBALL ENTHUSIASTS (All of YOU) , see these machines for what they are. A work of art that you can look at, walk around and admire, and actually PLAY! AND, every time you play it, you have a different outcome! An extraordinary experience that you all have seen and felt! This is why we all week out pinball parlours and expos! We need to show support for these new fledgling companies and not ridicule them. Yes, some playful fun is expected, but there are clearly some great new ideas that DR has developed. Let's let them grow, develop and change ! And always remember, the movie A CHRISTMAS STORY was a BOMB at the box office--a disaster! But now, 35 years later......... Anyway, that is my two cents! Todd N. Tuckey
Love ya Todd but I can't help but feel you are underinformed about the entire situation. I'm not going to go further into detail than that.
But I can't help but wonder how your statement compares to Andrew Macbain and his company to produce pinball machines, Punny Factory. Given your personal history with him, I suspect your attitude is much different. Not the same situation of course but there is a lot of difficult history here and for many of us.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/todd-tuckey-s-response-to-pinball-adventures-book-deal-termination-
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OqCbjLvac0AyovWDX8s90GXZzmahi5bty9r5snJkiv8/edit
For the record, I want Deeproot to satisfy Jpop/Zidware debts and manufacture good quality machines.
KxpRCYAEwBSa 1 (resized).jpgQuoted from DS_Nadine:Since their site is black with the Sept.21st info, their FB page as well and Fun with Bonus without Deeproot news for 9 days, it's not looking good to say the least - but we still have some days to go.
There used to be quite a bit of content but now all of their sites resemble domain squatters.
https://deeprootfunds.com/
https://deeproottech.com/
https://deeprootpinball.com/
Quoted from pinlink:I'm really looking forward to the 5 days of deeproot
Is it days or daze?
Quoted from jorro:Wasnt haggis pinball hammering their playfields first?
Yes, but Deeproot was first to offer orange-peel
Quoted from boo32:"Some modes and features will require an extra cost or a support plan. More on this will be announced when we start taking orders."
I keep reading that quote and trying to decipher it. Does anyone have a serious guess as to what modes and features will cost extra or need a support plan?
1 week later
I got bored with the radio silence so I did a little checking. I thought they were operating with $32.2 million but it would seem that Deeproot has raised $44.9 million in two offerings. All of it back in 2015. First round was the $32.2 million in September 2015 that has been commonly discussed here. Then in December of 2015, a second round raised an additional $12.7 million.
$44.9 million, here's the link where I got that info: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/deeproot-tech/company_financials
Its been five years with no apparent income. I'm just hoping there is enough gas in the tank for the Goodwill people to get their games.
Quoted from Yelobird:Wow, now you have me interested in the next game from Chicago Coin. Hope it’s another basketball game.
(giggle, snort)
Quoted from toyotaboy:Well I mean, no income from pinball anyway. Supposedly the studios work on other digital projects but who knows what the income (if any) is.
I thought the studios were closed.
Quoted from toyotaboy:It's fuzzy what deeproot has actually spent developing the "pinball division", but best guess over the past 3-4 years is likely well over 20 million at this point.
Your guess is a good as mine but as more time passes the deeper the hole they're digging. Do you guys remember all of the lavish spending and financial bragging they did in the early years? Then came the quiet closing of the Utah division and snice then its been all Popadiuk and Garfunkel songs.
Front loaded, extravagant spending and over confidence is an amateur business mistake. Especially from those that obtain large amounts of *other peoples money. This is often followed by, betting on the come, another mistake.
Quoted from pinlink:That's just not true though. The world of venture backed businesses seems to go clear over a lot of people's heads here.
The goal for any VC backed startup is NOT profit!! In fact if you were profitable, your investors would be pissed. That means you are not growing fast enough.
The goal for VC backed startups is growth, and to dominate a category (like pinball). Look at Uber, Amazon or thousands of others as an example. Uber is still not profitable and they are a publically traded company. But guess what!?? All of the early investors and employees made a shit load of money. That's the game. Robert pitched this business model the same way that a technology startup would have.
I am not saying that I think deeproot is on the right track ( I believe that they will fail), I just get tired of seeing people talk about how they are not making a profit as if that was their current goal, or their investor's goal. IT'S NOT! The goal is growth (and yes, deeproot is failing at this with not delivering a single game). If this goes over your head, do some research into how VC backed startups operate. I'll say it again, profit is not a goal at this stage!! Growth first. Profit comes later.
That's like the worst Haiku ever.
2 weeks later
Quoted from pinballrockstar:It’s ridiculous?
Do you think JPOP ever thinks of Ben Heck for longer than 10 seconds?
This man is obsessed with JPOP .
I don't believe Ben is obsessed with Jpop any more than myself and others are. After all, Jpop is and has been the center of this shit show and Ben has personal insight to the man. I have greatly appreciated Ben's personal and industry contributions to this thread and hope he continues. His wit and humor along the way is a bonus.
Quoted from pinballrockstar:(And JPOP gets off on it lol )
Disagree. Jpop has disgraced himself to the pinball world multiple times now. With a personal bankruptcy looming and a legal judgment hanging over his head, Jpop hasn't the luxury of feeling superior to anyone.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Maybe some news coming soon. I sure hope that we see a picture of the factory building the arcade style of RAZA.
For the sake of the Goodwill people, I'm sincerely hoping too. But man, Deeproot repeatedly makes awkward moves and the Goodwill people have to be feeling disillusioned.
Quoted from teekee:Lets face it. You will never get good unbiased information from this thread or anywhere on Pinside regarding this game or DR in general. Most here made up their minds long ago. Nothing but hate for DR here on Pinside and that won't change no matter how well they do. Anyone actually taking this garbage information spewed here is making a big mistake. Pinside regarding DR is sorta like watching CNN for real news... it just doesn't happen. What a joke Pinside and many of its members have become.
Good luck to DR! And anyone seriously interested in getting real unbiased information about them should log off Pinside immediately and check other (much more reliable) sources.
What makes you believe you are the enlighten one and the rest of us are simple deplorables. I believe the good people of Pinside are more than capable of sifting through either hyperbole or contempt and making their own conclusions. Thanks for trying to save us though.
The only thing I really give a shit about is the Goodwill people in this mess. Keep in mind they are not getting a free game but rather they are recovering lost money. And some of them with smaller amounts will have to pay a balance to get a game per the agreement.
This monthly/yearly fee, if true, should be waived for them otherwise they are in a hostage situation. I can guarantee none of this was revealed in the Goodwill agreement.
We all like to be proud of our collections and brag about the great deals we got.
I just imagined myself walking into someone's game room and seeing a Deeproot game knowing they were paying a monthly fee. I would be polite and not laugh in their face but I don't how long I could restrain myself.
Quoted from spinal:My point is simply that all this will do is piss most potential customers off, both operators and hobbyists and this will lead to lower sales. No manufacturer has done this before and DR is not the company to start this. They continue to think they are leading the industry and don’t have the sway at this point to pull this off.
Completely agree and if you've been following the recent tone in this thread, you get a sense that past Deeproot supporters here are beginning to hit a wall. (supporters that I respect, btw)
Quoted from spinal:The bright side is it will make RAZA even rarer. Even rarer will be having access to the subscription update code far into the future when they stop supporting it or go out of business. Nothing more rare than zero.
Think about Cosmic Carnival if anyone still believes rarity equals value.
But lets wait until the official offer is laid out in detail. This soft reveal will certainly be followed up by a TWIP interview or something. Right?
Quoted from Roostking:I say again, if I can order a burrito through the PinBar (tm) on FoodTruck, we will have expanding waistlines!
The topper could be a microwave.
1 week later
My suspicion of the mysterious and revolutionary "Octo Manufacturing" that Deeproot has promoted, will turn out to be nothing more than a fancy name for contract manufacturing. Contract manufacturing is as old as the hills and fraught with pitfalls for any business that doesn't have their shit together.
It doesn't always spell disaster of course but look to Dutch Pinball vs ARA as an example.
That's my guess why we don't see any pictures of a Deeproot production line.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Several recent podcasts discussing the deeproot leaks. Even Gary Stern briefly weighs in (!)
Could you elaborate please or provide some links. Thanks
Sometimes it’s the things not spoken.
Of interest to me was the complete lack of mention regarding playfield durability in the promotional videos. This has been Deeproots flagship promotion with the hammer test promise. No more dimpling remember?
The promotional videos covered all of their other innovations so why is there zero mention about the playfield? It’s the number one issue among collectors right now and a long touted Deeproot promise.
In the machine feature list, it does show, PinArmor™ Playfield Protection but no accompanying explanation, assurances or promotion of it.
Someone needs to ask Deeproot about playfield dimpling, pooling and chipping.
Quoted from Yelobird:With that said, a simple call yesterday and talked to Robert.
Did you happen to ask Robert about the User Subscription Fee and what all is involved with that? I'm confused on exactly what that fee buys for your game and how it works.
Thanks
Quoted from Lounge:Interesting that wrb1977 hasn’t chimed in yet.
...maybe cut the guy some slack. I always appreciate an opposing view and I thought wrb1977 always presented his thoughts in a respectful way. And given some of the recent developments he's probably reassessing his position. Nothing wrong with that.
Quoted from Mr68:Did you happen to ask Robert about the User Subscription Fee and what all is involved with that? I'm confused on exactly what that fee buys for your game and how it works.
Thanks
If not Yelobird, is there anyone that might have a serious explanation to the User Subscription fee? Admitley I may have overlooked something on Deeproots webpage but I'm not finding anything.
Quoted from Yelobird:As for assembly line. I have never asked Apple or any other product company to show me how they are going to provide my product nor do I feel they owe me that right.
Endless amounts of Apple's production line pictures available on Google. Deeproot needs to prove themselves.
Quoted from Reznnate:Did I miss it? Has their been announced delivery timeframe? An estimate?
zzzzzdeeproot (resized).pngQuoted from Haymaker:I'm curious what the cost is to buy a non branded "pinpod" straight from the manufacturer. I can't remember who it is but somebody linked to it previously.
For me the Pinpod has too many negatives that others here have already spoken of. But if you're interested, contact SnapCrate.
Quoted from teekee:Cheer up dude... I get you're a hater and will never be able to put your 'hurt feelings' aside for just a second to see the positives... but you should try it some time and maybe life won't suck so bad.
You getting the Arcade or Extra?
Quoted from flynnibus:When the spend happy suddenly become penny pinchers... it is not usually a strategy change, but a survival reaction.
zzzztoothpaste-tube-usage-over-time-3-years-one-month-3692349 (resized).pngQuoted from flynnibus:Rare alone doesn't make market value or desirability.
I've been trying to tell people this for a couple of years now. We now have more pinball manufactures than at any other time in history. This aint your fathers pinball market any more.
Americas Most Haunted, 150 made. Rob Zombie, 300 made. Mafia, 10 made. Cosmic Carnival, way less than 100 made. Where are the prices on those rare games now?
Big Bang Bar set the benchmark for all others to compare too and the ride lasted for years. But it was a perfect storm in its day and that was back in 2007. Only Stern was around then. And even today, Big Bang Bar is well below its peak value but people still whisper about the next BBB.
Quoted from Capn12:Also.....*spoiler*..........Pinside's favorite DR theme is next after RAZA......
Food Truck time!
I thought you were joking when you posted that but I just now finished the podcast. - Wow
Deeproot would have owned me had they been able to fulfill their playfield promises. Imagine the shot across the bow of all competitors had they succeeded. Jonathan and Martin did well in asking the playfield question but the answer was nothing like I had hoped for.
It’s regrettable they set expectations so high.
Forget Food Truck for a moment. What is the logic behind announcing game #2 on the second day of launching game #1?
I thought Food Truck as game #2 might be a joke but Robert said it seriously, on a serious podcast and when a surprised Jonathan asked if they were getting an exclusive, Robert confirmed it.
Quoted from Boat:So what is the realistic delivery eta assuming parts need to be produced in bulk and manufacturing needs to happen. End of next year?
Six weeks from yesterday according to their webpage and last nights podcast. Looks like January 20th, 2021 for Phase 1 deliveries.
**Someone please double check me on that.
Where's our countdown guy? .
zzzzzRAZA timeline (resized).pngQuoted from transprtr4u:Good thing for DR to do now would be to be more transparent and show some games getting built..
Need to build some customer confidence.
I completely agree but on the Pinball News Podcast the other night, Robert said the factory will not be shown due to manufacturing trade secrets.
(I'm paraphrasing as I don't remember his exact words)
Quoted from iceman44:I’m hearing great things about Food Truck
I thought the theme was a joke at first but hey I’ve an open mind
My Emeril Lagasse GIF got to you. Nice!
Quoted from noitbe1:I mean never... when you see how you can be burnt in public, how difficult it is, all the bad feedbacks for small things...
All of these companies began and survived Pinside. And some of them had a bumpy go at first too.
American Pinball
Dutch Pinball
Jersey Jack Pinball
Haggis Pinball
Multimorphic
Chicago Gaming Company
Spooky Pinball
I agree Deeproot is getting the worst of it. So ask yourself why. And Deeproot needs to ask the same question.
Quoted from transprtr4u:Really ... alien , missed that ... who's doing that?
Pinball Brothers is making it. Several improvements from the original game from what I'm hearing.
Facebook Link: https://www.facebook.com/pinballbrothers
Quoted from iceman44:Other than parts, cab etc
That's what I'm hearing. Improved parts which will be great for existing games if replacement is needed and more of a traditional style Bally/William cabinet. Also Dave Sanders mentioned on Kaneda of an extra magnet somewhere on the playfield.
I also heard possible new artwork but that doesn't make sense to me.
Quoted from iceman44:Alien is going to CRUSH it
I have to agree and it's a no brainer for me to buy in.
Quoted from Mercifull:From simple things like advertising drinks or food deals during attract mode or potentially it would be possible for a player to order things from an operator. Alternatively perhaps points that can be spent at the atomic shop could also be redeemed for prizes in real life. Like how some ticket machines you can trade 10,000 tickets in return for a lollipop.
I get that you're trying to be creative here but please, oh my god, no. As a player, the last thing I want from my machine is advertising. I hate it even at home with my Spooky games when I see an advertisement for Pinball Life. Maybe it's just me but it feels like more internet, business, invasion and manipulation.
I wanna play pinball and escape the real world.
And couldn't I just order a beer using my smartphone without being prompted by a scrolling marquee?
Now the one fantastic use I could see about the Pinbar would be the ability for the customer to immediately notify the operator that the machine is broken. Stuck ball? Boom, right to his cell phone and he'd probably be sitting at the bar.
Quoted from toyotaboy:I also had system 11 games that told me to say no to drugs.
The rule use to be, whoever saw that message first has to yell out, "Nancy" and we'd all get high.
Quoted from benheck:Also does anyone else appreciate the irony of a lawyer going gaga for the art on a game that's at least 3 lawsuits waiting to happen? (Toho, MGM, Topps)
Huh, what?
Speaking of the 6 journalists (or whatever). Am I the only one that thought their group statement, post NDA, was lame and severely lacking?
They all looked like they had PTSD after the Deeproot tour, and that's the huge secret they could now collectively reveal?
Read it again. It says nothing.
Quoted from pin2d:Hello pinheads!!
The “Deep Six” that went to deeproot a couple months ago have been released from our NDAs now. We have been getting a ton of questions over the last couple months, so we wanted to put out a joint statement now that the NDAs have been lifted.
The #1 question we have received is about manufacturing. While we did see the manufacturing area and heard an overview of their planned production process, there was no manufacturing or production taking place when we visited. So like the rest of you, we will have to rely on deeproot to share any current details regarding manufacturing.
We truly appreciate the hospitality of deeproot and hope that their vision for pinball will materialize.
Sincerely,
Cary Hardy (Cary Hardy YouTube channel)
Chris Chandler (deeproot correspondent for The Pinball Show)
Colin MacAlpine (2017 Pinburgh Champion, top competitive player)
Jeff Patterson (This Week in Pinball)
Krystle Gemnich (Marco Specialties, The Plumb Pinball Podcast)
Lauren Gray (The Backbox Pinball Podcast)
Quoted from frolic:Thanks for posting.
That video is only 16 minutes long and that's one of the many reasons I suggest people subscribe to Cary's Youtube channel.
I like his persona and his episodes pack an informative punch, while not being a total time suck like some other shows.
Quoted from Makakka:A window shopper encouraging others to window shop...you aint ever gonna order I know this kind of talk.
Quoted from Makakka:You will circle with your mouse around the order button until sale is closed
Come on man, that's just cheap psychology and you're trying to goad him into making the purchase.
He's a grown adult, well versed in this thread and he can make his own choices.
Here are some likely scenarios if Deeproot would just post some pictures of the production line.
1. New orders would flood in.
2. Potential new investors would be impressed.
3. Deeproot supporters in this thread would be cheering, In Yer Face, Haters!
Long overdue but wouldn't transparency be a smart business decision for Deeproot?
Quoted from DS_Nadine:"If you have nothing nice to say, better say nothing at all."
Pinside would collapse in on itself.
Quoted from Scandell:Let’s say there are 87 orders in.
Average price....7k.
20% down deposits?
Total:
$120k accumulated? Is that correct?
10% down for the Arcade model and 20% down for the Xtra. Also, Deeproot offered those paying in full to jump to the head of the line. Two Xtra Edition machines confirmed so far as paying in full.
Additionally, I would assume that some of the numbered orders belong to the Goodwill people at zero deposit.
Your guess is as good as any but whatever the number is, it really amounts to peanuts in the scheme of things.
Quoted from pinballwil:So Raza will be the most collectable game from Deeproot in the future.Take my words.
Cosmic Carnival is the most collectable game from Suncoast Pinball.
Quoted from pinballwil:Yeah but that thing looks like a homebrew game.
Deeproot is more like wms.
That's a subjective opinion about both games but I'm not really motivated to do a back and forth. And please note that I'm not a hater in this thread, but I am a sceptic.
BTW. Pinball manufactures these days and for the past several years, have pumped out LE's, CE's, Royals, or whatever fancy name they want to use. Simply rarity equalling value in today's pinball world is over.
Quoted from jellikit:I liked Dirty Donny's art on Cosmic Carnival and it did get produced, I am not sure how many but it is a feat where others have failed.
Dirty Donny's artwork was great and Cosmic Carnival was built with Bally/Williams mechs and Multimorphic P3-ROC boards. It was the boring game play and irritating music that was its down fall, IMO.
Only 25 ever manufactured but not for me.
https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/suncoast-cosmic-carnival
Quoted from Yelobird:Oh understood. Don't see a world end issue there but understood.
It's not a world ending issue I agree. But considering their Pinpod will not fit through a standard sized door, you have to wonder what other engineering issues there may be.
I hope everything works out for everyone but I just don't have the confidence that you guys do.
Good eye, Levi
Quoted from fastpinball:Oh no. If that is true, they need to sort that out. Not everyone has a convenient garage or other space to safely unbox a game in. Sure, you could unbox outdoors, but what do you do when it is raining?
Cary Hardy's video is becoming the Zapruder film but here ya go, all cued up for ya.
Quoted from wrb1977:Agreed...and...back to reality. I’m going to blame it on that damn Mad Elf I was drinking.
Oh man.... Now I feel like Captain Bummer...
I hope to have a few beers with you someday.
Quoted from wrb1977:Just curious, is Mad Elf (11% Christmas beer) available out your way?
Apparently so according to my quick Google search. And I enjoy Belgian beers. Looks like I've got some more shopping to do.
I found it concerning to read that to complete the sale for RAZA, customers have to DocuSign a contract giving Deeproot "blanket indemnity".
I didn't read it because it's only listed in the buyers agreement and not on their webpage. But Pinsider Nysbadmk8, who backed out of the sale posted:
Quoted from Nysbadmk8:The blanket indemnity.
Signing that paper would give you zero recourse to cure any faults, whether it be monetary (the deposit) or the product.
Given the history (not discussing it, but it cannot be ignored) I have to bow out and wait.
In addition. I've purchased three NIB games in the last 6 months.
None of the resellers or manufactures needed 1. A signed contract, 2. Complete Indemnification.
Later in the thread he posted in reply:
Quoted from Nysbadmk8:You missed a few points, the biggest one you missed... If you only lose your deposit, you lose 600 bucks. If you pay in full and get a game which is full of problems, then you definitely lost more.
Do as you wish but you guys have some new red flags to unpack in all of that.
Quoted from Kerry_Richard:I'm building my RAZA machine order; I'm in on RAZA AE with added Topper for sure!
I'm on the fence with these add ons:
Purple powder coating on armor and coin door... I actually really like the look of the Stainless Steel tho.
Neon Rings upgrade: I haven't seen pictures of these, so it's difficult to consider them. If they're like BBB neon tube rings, then YES!
Shaker, this could be a real cool added feel.
Upgraded toy package
GI lighting: I'm not a big fan of the dotted light reflections seen all over with the other brands out there.
Anyone who has made these decisions and want to comment / share, would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Kerry
Believe it or not, I did consider buying the Arcade Edition. Before I decided to bail, I was only going to get the GI Lighting and the Pinbar screen protector. I like the stainless steel better, not really a powder coat, topper or shaker guy and I already have PDI glass.
If you're interested in the PinPod it can't hurt to ask them for the same price as the Xtra. Xtra shows the Pinpod price as $550.
Quoted from Mr68:I already have PDI glass.
Oops, I just realised the glass is installed into the frame on RAZA and I have no idea how easy it would be to change out or even if it's the same size as my PDI glass.
Soooo, nevermind then.
Quoted from cpr9999:To me the stake of their reputation and frankly the future of the company now depend on this discipline & performance. I am routing for their success - to me they are not Zidware.
Fine, take Zidware and Jpop out of the equation. Based solely on Deeproot's history and performance so far, what is their reputation today?
Quoted from cpr9999:Nothing yet - as I said they need to perform first. If no performance - no company no reputation. They are done.
So far they have a five year history of deadline failures, hyperbole, secrecy, NDA's, dubious customer legal agreements and so on. I'd say they have a sizable reputation at this point.
Quoted from Mbecker:Lol what indication is there that this will happen soon? Their proclamation that games will start shipping in ... did they give a date? February? Spring?
See screenshot.
If it happens I would hope that the Goodwill agreement people would be first to receive their games. I've never met Fulltilt and I would enjoy seeing a picture of him unboxing his game. Many of the others too and I will quietly celebrate all of them should Deeproot prove me wrong.
Quoted from Mark1971:If everybody buys a game this company will make it, Its a leap of faith but I put a deposit down on a RAZA. I know how hard it is to be a small buisness owner and start up and I hope they are a success. Not only do I hope they make it I look forward to the Goonies game trailer when it comes out and if its great I would love to have it.
You might want to join the Pre-order thread at this link: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/raza-pre-order-club/page/4
Good luck
Quoted from cpr9999:Doesn’t recoup there investment but they just pulled in a cool Million+ with these orders IF they can produce these games.
There is some controversy about the game numbers being produced. You might want to get caught up on that thread.
Quoted from cpr9999:Heck if their warranty was 6 months - that would be much better than other manufacturers on playfield dimples!
Of course games need to be made first to have a warranty option.
What warranty option would that be? Last I heard buyers are signing a blanket indemnity contract.
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