Quoted from frolic:... or be fitted with a fleshlight
Any mod designers listening.... 
(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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3 months later
Quoted from teekee:A 3-4 month delay seems very reasonable. I would assume this was expected.
LMFAO!
Hasn’t it been a 3-4 year delay!?
2 months later
They need to buy one or two of these home-brews and start there. That RAZA is embarrassing. I can’t imagine what they spent on it.
Quoted from wrb1977:History has shown countless times technology and innovation offering solutions to problems people didn’t even know they had, until the new and improved way comes to market. Then and only then is the old way considered obsolete and the new way embraced and become the new standard. This is what I anticipate with deeproot, if they can ever get some games out the door.
Did you see the pictures of RAZA?
Quoted from noitbe1:It's really looks like they orders the right dimension for a pinball, put their logo on it, and called it: "Pin".... wait for it..... "Pod"......
Otherwise they are good for a long trial...
The trademark is in name only.
The product itself could be licensed by DR from Creosnap. Or, Creosnap could be a subsidiary of DR. If neither of those two conditions are met, they could be in trouble.
Quoted from PtownPin:I think this game looks awesome...I'm hoping these guys start pumping games out soon...hopefully MSRP will be in the $7K range. I think the PinBar is a great idea...jury is still out on that back box design
I doubt $7k is going to cover it. Both the touch screen and back box display are custom dimensions. And since it doesn’t appear that the ‘pinbar’ is optional, my guess would be a couple grand north of that at least.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Pinball was an Arcade game as was video games.
When we got the first video games for home usage that still was basically arcade ports but did evolve into something different, deeper and longer; so you won't play trough it and sell it quickly.
So what about an occasional (!) game that is specifically tailored for the home market, not hardwarewise like Stern does it but softwarewise.
Not always starting from zero hitting the same wall all over again after 3 minutes.
Imaging LotR but you could start from chapter 2 after you finished the first.
And if you do that you can embed more "quests" or "chapters".
Or you can grind stuff over multiple games to unlock something later.
All of this does not change the flow of the game, it just helps to give that games longer feet in the home market, for all the" I flip my games within 1 week to 3 month" guys here.
This would actually be rather easy to implement using simple ‘profiles’ and XML.
Quoted from russdx:It’s a shame custom shaped lcd prices are still not low enough yet as I think a lcd the shape of a apron (with standard lock bar) would look freaking awesome. Still do all the same pinBar stuff but on a authentic shaped apron with normal lock bar.
I agree.
Or even (JJPPOTC style) screens where the instruction cards go. Still need the key to remove the glass but touch your way through settings menus. Exit out, glass back on, and they turn back into dynamic game instructions and pricing info.
This way, the location game touch screens don’t get destroyed by booze, bottles, or fists.
Quoted from razorsedge:How low do they need to be?
These things are like dunny doors...
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Hot-sell-lcd-monitor-24-inch_60786200518.html?spm=a2700.7724857.normalList.74.df3a52e5zfOAhu
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/40-pins-High-Brightness-1920-480_62177825493.html?spm=a2700.details.deiletai6.3.37486ccbKFU9lw
The first is pretty close to what you'll find in the backbox, maybe one size smaller which would come cheaper. It is FullHD. The second there, would fit much more comfortably in a lockbar, if they really must... nd can have a touch shield. Flush Mount... if they must do it. It is 2020 fcol!
My comment was geared more towards the location rather than price.
And we’re talking about on the apron, under the glass.
Quoted from spfxted:Yes, that's me in my 80's Corvette! Gad!...what happened to that guy??
[quoted image]
Sweep the leg!!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Deep root will never mass produce and ship any pinball machines.
Maybe some day someone gets to trade that quote for a stupid t shirt but I’m feeling pretty good about the prediction.
wrb1977 ... ???
Wait for it....
Quoted from wrb1977:Yes. The daily commute from Pittsburgh to San Antonio is definitely not ideal, but the opportunity to work with the team at deeproot was a once in a lifetime opportunity I could not pass up. It puts a strain on our marriage, however, my wife supports me 100% and just wants me to be happy!
I don’t downvote constructive criticism...I downvote stupidity.
Quoted from wrb1977:Ka-Ching!!!!!
Quoted from wrb1977:Read what I wrote in post #12085 in this thread...the answers you may be looking for are contained within.
Quoted from wrb1977:I also am planning on buying a RAZA, especially since I get an employee discount! In my opinion what we’ve seen so far looks fantastic and is a breath of fresh air. Seeing the video of Steve Bowden hitting the ramp shot a few times in a row was encouraging. I feel the production version will be more refined and a definite game changer...that is...if they can ever get the line moving!
Quoted from benheck:.... Think about how many homebrew games we've seen at shows - "made in a garage... With a box of scraps!" John can't even finish one game in 10 years. At what point do people figure this out?
Imagine how many home-brews DR could have bought for the money they have in RAZA. They could have had a lineup bigger than JJP by now.
Quoted from djd9617:Honestly I think DR's efforts are not going to the game specifically, but instead going toward turning pinball machines into IOT smart devices... that may or may not be an avenue for ad revenue, microtransactions, etc. I hope not, but the spidey senses are tingling.
Well, they just got beat to the punch - JJP GnR is supporting WiFi updates. The pissing and moaning about JJP pricing is laughable when you compare JJP to any other mfgr - screens, mechs, code. Sure, they have some things to work on but they’re on the right track.
Meanwhile DR is working on an unlicensed title that’s 5 years old and hasn’t sold a single one.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:I only learned that I need more money!
Well, plenty of other people think it’s worth it. And based on the rumor that all the GnR CEs (500) sold out on the day of the launch is proof enough for me.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:They are sold trough distributors. So they're still available.
But yes. I think it's worth it and I don't even like GnR. When I see the choregraphed light show in zmeny s video I can't help but smile and be wowed, and this is what I want in a pinball machine.
You may argue that there is no "big toy" in this (whereas we still have to see how everything plays out and that upper playfield seems to have 2 levels in itself) but the lightshow in itself is the toy in my opinion.
And suddenly everything you put up next to it looks kinda old, like an old pin with incondecents next to a modern LED pin.
...
Uh, kinda lost myself there. - If you check the bis of new Raza footage we got, it's idle lightshow animation looks kinda broken even, with apbrupt fade outs and stuff.
Still, I'm interrested in Raza. I like that fishtank translite better then a giant screen and it will be a totally different game alltogether.
But with the Pinbar, the full PC, two power supplies etc. I just don't think they can manage to come close to Pro pricing and still have toys left.
(And I think everyone of us would prefer actual toys over the pinbar and noone cares if the game is running on a small ARM chip or a full fledged PC - as long as we don't have to pay for it - wich we do.)
JJP is sold out on direct sales of CEs - just look at their website. My distro doesn’t have any more available and many people wanting CEs can’t find them.
That said, I think we’re on the same side of this argument. DR doesn’t need to change pinball, they just need to have pinball. JJP did it right - price model be damned - they are delivering what the pinball community has been asking for - innovative/creative design, deep theme integration, WiFi updates, Bluetooth audio, external audio, VALUE.
DR needs to take notes.
Quoted from bennyprofane:At the end of the day, Deeproot isn't JUST not a pinball company, but they're not even a company. In the real world, this type of shit doesn't exist. Imagine if a bakery opened up in your town 5 years ago to bake the best cakes in the world. Five years later, they show you pictures of what they're working on. If it ain't real, it ain't real.
“No, no, you don’t get it..... we inverted the frosting. We call it CakeNovation (TM).”
Quoted from spinal:Should hire George Gomez for $750,000 per year for 5 year contract with 3 years guaranteed. Go with his opinion and make some games. Robert would save millions over that period of time and it would probably be enough cash for George to walk (for retirement) - everyone wins.
I’ll take a crack at it for half that.... can’t do much worse than what they’re doing already.
Quoted from Fulltilt:I don't mean to be so cynical, I suppose it's my fault for not reading all available articles relating to the release.
I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a ‘release’ quite yet. You’ve probably got a few more years.
1 week later
Quoted from aeneas:It's best to say 'pinball design studio' at the moment ?
is it.... ???
Quoted from TreyBo69:"Train Wreck" unfortunately didn't make it into the pitch deck
[quoted image]
Yeah.... but somehow the Old Testament did 
Brilliant - bible verse callouts.
2 weeks later
1 week later
The last thing I want in entertainment is another ‘thing’ that depends on internet connectivity to work correctly.
1 week later
Quoted from RCA1:Am I seeing the purchase info correctly?
Are orders only being taken from Dec. 8 to Dec. 30?
Yeah, great plan to sell games only for a three week window between Thanksgiving and Christmas during a global pandemic.
To create FoMO.
Quoted from Mr68:...maybe cut the guy some slack. I always appreciate an opposing view and I thought wrb1977 always presented his thoughts in a respectful way. And given some of the recent developments he's probably reassessing his position. Nothing wrong with that.
He downvoted everything negative in this thread and now that they’re “releasing” something he’s mute.... sure, I’ll cut him some slack.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:There is also a massive difference between "negative" and "critical".
I wouldn’t exactly say there’s that much of a difference regarding this topic and the way DR has handled things. But I’ll leave that as a matter of opinion.
Quoted from flynnibus:Was this after Apple was a multibillion dollar company or before? Just want to get my comparisons straight...
I believe it was after they actually built something and then sold it to the public. Which they reliably continue to do. You can trust that when Apple says they’re going to build something, they’re going to build it.
Quoted from flynnibus:That whoosh sound is the joke going over your head
Bourbon will do that 
It seems pretty clear when asking for full payment up front, that the consumer will be funding production.
Quoted from benheck:.... so are they going to scale out the hiring to keep making RAZA until Food Truck is ready? When that bombs how close is Goonies to being ready?
Their choice of themes is absolutely mind boggling - Food Truck, Old Testament....??
As you imply, Goonies is probably the only theme that could save them. Should have been their first release.
1 month later
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Let's take the opposite angle and think why the vocal crowds opinion to start with goonies as "great idea", is actually... not that great at all.
And “Food Truck” is???
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Of course it would be better to build Goonies and have 100 machines ready to go on day one; it‘s just impossible for them or they would have done it.
This is exactly the problem.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Deeproot still has to sell as many RAZAs as they can (or more correctly "earn as much money with RAZA as they can"), of course.
So they open preorders for two months and that’s it??
You make about as much sense as DR’s business strategy.
4 weeks later
Quoted from pbwizard14:Why say your going to produce pinball machines then instead of just working on new designs and trying to sell them to companies that already exist? I believe they have every intention to make a unique machine, which they have with the pinbar and game play that accumulates tickets to purchase modes that further the progression in the game and give the player options to choose the mode.
Because nobody wants this.
1 week later
I can’t stop reading this garbage.
It’s just so amazing to me that a company conducts “business“ like this and people are viciously defending them. Incredible.
Quoted from woodworker:I am tired of posting every time somebody walks into this thread and says "What's the big deal?" or "Why so negative?", so I went ahead and created a little "Starter Pack" for those that need to play catch up. Hope this helps! It has already been UL and CE certified so we're good to go!!!
Hope Zidware customers get their games.
[quoted image]
ROASTED
Quoted from TreyBo69:Oh and while I was browsing for other stuff,
Pour one out for some of deeproots trademarks....
No PINPOD though?
The box is licensed from another manufacturer.
Quoted from TreyBo69:I'm aware, but you can still toss a trademarked name onto the item. Unless the license precludes it, which maybe it does. But they didn't tell that to whomever spraypainted some logos on the box
[quoted image]
A lot of what they do doesn’t make sense to me.
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:With the right art and callouts....[quoted image]
Nah...
Quoted from JodyG:I'm not sure if this one was posted before...but yikes!
[quoted image]
The good news is they’ve made it longer than the 3 months this employee predicted.
1 week later
Quoted from JodyG:The Pittsburgh Pirates currently have better odds at delivering a championship this year then DR has at delivering games this year.
And the Pirates actually have games scheduled.
Quoted from jawjaw:Pretty poor imo to want a company to fail just because of a dislike of a few people. So you would be happy when dozens of people lose their jobs, customers lose thousands, and pinball loses competition?
“Dozens” is a stretch. The customers have already lost their money and there is plenty of competition already.
Next....
Edit - damn, too late.
Quoted from dc2010:Man I really hope everyone gets their pin
But if/when this blows up, I'll be looking for the auction notice
At least there won't be alot of production people out of work
Pick up a sweet HUO octo-manufacturing rig?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:[quoted image]
WTF ... it’s just pinball - make it interesting.
Quoted from brucipher:As a consumer, reading their "RAZA Order, Payment, and Shipment Details" page implies to me that games would begin to reach customers approximately six weeks from ordering.
"Ramp up for RAZA
As of the time of opening orders, nearly all pinball manufacturers are experiencing supply chain disruptions and backlogs of orders primarily due to the order volume and the pandemic. Vendors face similar issues and lead times for metals, plastics, componentry and backlit panels are all unpredictable and much longer than pre-pandemic. Even prior to the pandemic many new pinball releases often took 4-6 weeks for manufacturing to ramp up after opening orders, and took months to fulfill all orders. Our RAZA run will be no different.
We plan to ramp up our lines in a slow, controlled manner using phases with a goal to finish and ship all RAZA orders in less than four months. The first three phases will only be games meeting UL certification for North America/Canada. As CE and other international certifications will still be ongoing, we will not ship international orders until the fourth phase at the earliest.
Phase 1: Approximately six weeks as the first games reach customers, with us alternating between Arcade and Xtra editions (backlit side panels being the primary delays for Xtra editions).
Phase 2: Approximately four weeks, with the goal of increasing games leaving per week to 30.
Phase 3: Approximately four weeks, with the goal of increasing games leaving per week to 40.
Phase 4: The balance of domestic orders and all International orders."
Then, their "Updated FAQ 12.29.20" stated:
"When will my RAZA be delivered?
We will provide updates as production and shipments happen. We expect to be done with RAZA production well before the stated Phases."
It's no wonder why almost nobody trusts this company.
Does this...
“We expect to be done with RAZA production well before the stated Phases.”
...make sense to anyone - am I reading this wrong??
1 week later
Quoted from Oldgoat:I understand but I'm not sure it is applicable in this case. Remember these are very small numbers. Stern orders 20,000 flipper buttons, JJP orders 5000 and Deeproot wants 300 instead of 250? Don't think it is worth the vendors time to break that order up.
I would imagine some vendor MOQs to be greater than what DR needs. Surprised to hear they won’t be making any extra machines as a result.
That letter sounds like the throes of death. ‘We’ll do what we can when we can, thanks.’
1 week later
Quoted from MapleSyrup:Well... The 5 Days of Deeproot were pretty cool!
Shhhhh.... you’re not allowed to talk about it.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Came across this hour-long interview with RM from 2019. Back then, Deeproot had THIRTEEN titles 50% or more completed. Imagine how many they must have now!
https://soundcloud.com/kanedapinball/episode-420-robert-from-deeproot
Hmmm.... episode 420. Coincidence?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:It would appear not.
They did however register this one (unironically, one presumes):
[quoted image]
https://trademarks.justia.com/882/82/pinball-for-the-88282791.html
What’s really funny about this is - a trademark has to be “in use” to be issued.
As in, a company must have a product in the public domain that uses this trademark. I’m going to assume that it was abandoned based on a lack of a product using this TM in the public domain.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:You also have to file with some sort of proof (we use streaming links, our DPK, digital flyers, and websites showing bookings), so they might still have just chosen to let it lapse
Yes - AKA ‘sales’ - which DR doesn’t have.
Quoted from Mbecker:Actually not entirely accurate— I believe the plan is to ship the games direct to customers ON the backs of unicorns. Some delays have come up in sourcing enough of them unfortunately but they are still looking
Ahem..... don’t you mean Octocorns (TM)?
1 month later
1 week later
Quoted from Mr68:I want to comment but I don't have much to say.
Best!
Me either.
Quoted from Mbecker:Dunno, from the other thread I suspect about 2-5 people opt out and recieve refunds and we hear little about it.
There’s a lot of gamblers and a good number of goodwill customers with no reason to jump out now.
What a fucking disaster. And 100% totally self induced.
2 weeks later
Quoted from shlt_thunder:Doesn’t come off as a very creative concept.
Uhhhh…. Food Truck
Quoted from toyotaboy:In case deeproot needs more excuses in their next update
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/unplanned-outages-hit-texas-power-plants-amid-soaring-temperatures-n1270827
"We hope this update finds you well. It's been very hot in Texas this spring, so much so that it's been shutting down the power grid because our state refuses to join the rest of the power grid to offset that load. We have also been told to turn our AC down and well.. quite honestly we just can't focus on work if it's not optimal temperature in the factory, so unfortunately we don't have as much progress as we would have liked."
Have to wait for the new solar panels to be installed.
Quoted from TreyBo69:I thought I heard Pat Lawlor liked family friendly themes. I’ve heard he haaaated doing the Family Guy pin because the vulgarity wasn’t good for location play in his opinion.
Unfortunate way of thinking.
This mindset made me crazy when R&M was being built as an ‘adult’ themed pin and people were complaining about the cussing because they had kids at home…. maybe don’t buy it. I’ve seen exactly ZERO minors playing pinball on location near me.
And if cussing in a pinball machine is what you’re worried about, your priorities are misplaced. When CardiB wins a grammy for a song titled ‘Wet Ass Pussy’ - pinball should be the least of your parental concerns.
Quoted from russdx:My 5 year old loves that song
They’re probably better at Grand Theft Auto than you too 
Quoted from cosmokramer:If food truck is such an awful theme, can someone explain the popularity of Diner?
“Popular” is a bit of a stretch. It’s currently ranked at 106 according to Pinside.
Quoted from LTG:Does have potential.
Laying in alley mode. Found in the woods mode. Stuffed in a trash can multiball…
Khashoggi mode??
Too far?
Quoted from TreyBo69:What’s the difference between X and a cheeseburger? I don’t have sex with a cheeseburger before eating it.
You’re missing out.
1 week later
Quoted from Mr68:… it will be another embarrassment.
Can it get any worse for them at this point??
Quoted from iceman44:Ohhhhh my Bubble, sounds just like Jpop had planned. It also doesn’t inspire confidence
I wish them well and anxiously awaiting how they will produce 50 games a month.
Show me. Then maybe DR can contract it out to them. Lol
How about one game….. ever.
Quoted from Makakka:I will decide after reading the next update. I want to see spirit and vigour in the next update.
Like all the other updates they’ve done??
Quoted from TreyBo69:I sure hope Food Truck reins in the "lets just put it all in there" approach of RAZA
B726C06F-383C-4543-B90F-253DAFC1B582.gifQuoted from Makakka:Somehow this post annoys me bc the (pinball) world isnt as simple as described second stating what the market is desperate for.
The RAZA table by accident or not wasnt hidden until 3 days before sale the nrs. were not limited and gameplay footage was available. All spooky did not have but the market desperately craved just look up the forum. It worked spooky bc played smartly with their built trust but hiding the table in that way was not what the market was desperate for. Nobody still knows how the table shoots. Also the RAZA sales were crucially diminished by very bad behaviour and broken promises ie lost trust that probably had nothing to do with the game itself. So the nrs. would have been higher without that.
Tell this spooky deeproot polarisation/fairytale your kids that need an easy world to understand. RM does not have to change course bc you say so.
Guessing you didn’t get your refund?
Quoted from jawjaw:You can make people wait years to get a game and everyone loves it.
Ummmm….. okay.
Pot, meet kettle.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:[quoted image]
"enough seats for 150 people built so far"
One for each RAZA buyer to sign NDAs in.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:It was inevitable and unavoidable but LCD def the worst thing to happen to pinball in recent memory. The display is really one of the least important aspects of a pinball machine, yet it now requires the greatest expenditure of time and resources.
I think for the player this is true. But for the viewer - the person watching someone play - the LCD is an unavoidable evolution. The DMD was for the player. The LCD is for all the strap hangers wondering if they want to drop a buck to play the game.
Quoted from Zablon:Who cares about the 'viewers'? I've never understood this mentality. I hate people watching me, and I certainly hate watching tournament players, most boring thing ever. Trap. Shoot. Repeat. May as well be watching golf.
Any operator with a routed machine that wants to make money.
Quoted from Zablon:That has never made any difference in if I put a quarter in or not. Interestingly what I do notice is that people don't like to wait while their friends play, so they play a different game.
You’re right.
Better?
As I suspected, “Hammer Tested” is not a registered trademark. I don’t think it ever could be seeing as it seems to be ‘too generic’ of a term. I have some experience with trademarks and how they’re issued.
“Pinbar” is a registered trademark.
https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4809:489x.1.1
Quoted from TreyBo69:Doesn't it take several months after filing to be public though? Like Pinbar™ was filed for in Sept 20 but wasn't published till March 21. And just looking at it, they only recently got "deeproot pinball"™. Applied 7-12-17, published for opposition 12-5-17, registered 3-16-21 (they had "deeproot"™ much longer)
You can apply for a trademark whenever you want. You can extend the duration between application and publication for a fee. There is a limit to the number of extensions you cam apply for - I believe the limit is 3 years between applying and publishing, however, you do have to pay for each extension.
I believe the crux of the issue here is that the trademark must be “in use” - meaning it has to be proven to the US PTO that the product associated with the trademark is actually being used by a product being sold. This proof is typically provided to the US PTO in the form of invoices of sales.
Quoted from seenev:…. why can't we scrutinize other manufacturers in the same way?
Deeproot is a manufacturer??
Quoted from seenev:But I still think wage comparisons are fair. If you're all going to blast deeproot for trying to hire at low wages, then asking what other manufacturers are paying is totally fair. Maybe they all pay better than deeproot. I dunno. But it's a fair question given the context.
I’m pretty sure no one is chained to a rotisserie at Spooky.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Could a Deeproot + Pinball Adventures merger be in the works??
Does anybody care??
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Can we all just admit that we love Food Truck now?
I really think this could be Deep Root's big breakthrough. Maybe just give up on RAZA and give the people what they want.
I honestly believe Food Truck would be a decent seller. At least compared to RAZA (I know, I know).
Quoted from valgalder:Something like Food Truck could be interesting if they made the game actually full of good humor (like a lot of old Bally/Williams games)... but then again what was the last game that was actually funny? Seems like that's been lost long ago...and if they do try and interject comedic elements it seems awfully forced..
You forgot to add …. “and if they actually make a game.”
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:What about all the recent Robert removals?
Means he’s no longer a managing member of those business entities. Doesn’t necessarily mean he’s been fired but he is no longer a representative of those businesses.
Finally caught up with this thread.
So… Ice got in a fight. Ben figured out how to post gifs. DR got trademarks. And there’s no update - cool.
Quoted from iceman44:4 cars in the parking lot. Tuesday at 3:30
Spread around in shade spots
A little red meat for you guys to go ape shit over. lol
Did you knock on the door?
Quoted from DakotaMike:How can John patent having a screen on the backboard? Modern pinball machines have screens all over the pf in many different places. There's nothing proprietary about having it there. Letting this patent stand, would be like patenting having a screen in the backbox.
I realize that Cirqus Voltaire was the first to have one in the backboard, but even if that was patentable, I was under the impression that Williams would own any relevant patents when a pinball machine was designed, and not necessarily the designer.
Let me expand your understanding a bit by explaining what I’ve learned about patents and trademarks.
A trademark can be claimed and published if….
1) It is not too generic of a term or phrase
2) I must be “in use” as in used on a product that is available for purchase and the claimant has verifiable sales of the product using the claimed trademark.
3) No one previously has claimed the trademark and if they have, it is no longer “in use.”
A patent can be issued if the applied for patent is an original design OR modifies an existing patent. Which is not to say that an existing product using similar technology that is un-patented cannot be patented.
A general copyright is issued any time a work - music, software, images, likeness is saved to a medium - hard drive, disc, canvas, etc. Software is protected under the general copyright and cannot be patented UNLESS it is used to manipulate hardware (CNC machines for instance).
The bottom line on all of these intellectual property issues is defensibility. 9 times out of 10, defensibility comes down to who makes it to market first. Or simply, who has sold a product in the claimed category first using this IP. Yes, there are categories - clothing, liquor, food, etc https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/trademark-classes.html - and you can have a claim in one category that doesn’t extend to another category. Again, it comes down to the defensibility of the claimed IP.
There’s a reason an entire category of law revolves around IP - it’s fucking complicated. But the bottom line is, you have to be selling products using the claimed IP to be able to defend your right to it.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Iceman
[quoted image]
Everyone else
[quoted image]
76547DC7-6BA4-406A-AFCD-9E2B0BD54F83.gifQuoted from JodyG:Did anyone who is owed a game bother following up with an email this week asking for an update?
Wrong thread.
This is stretching from ‘ugly’ to brutal real quick.
I can’t even read the pre-order thread anymore.
Quoted from clempo:I keep coming back to this thread hoping to see an explosion in the number of posts indicating actual news, but nada. Just more posts like this one. Carry on folks.
It’s not like DR is giving much to go on.
Quoted from Mr68:Isn't that the property that shuts down whenever the Panama Canal backs up?
“Yeah…. like, all the RAZA parts we ordered were on that big boat that got stuck in the canal…. Suez, that is. And the window for refunds has closed. Thank you. DR”
Quoted from iceman44:Drive by recon will occur today.
Brother, for your own edification, go for it. But I don’t think anyone in this thread cares.
Quoted from benheck:I'm waiting for the very end to REALLY speak my mind, else I might be considered "torturous interference".
What are they going to do at this point, litigate? I bet they can’t pay their Netflix sub.
So they have assembled games ready to go but, alas - legal issues. Not UL certification issues…. not boat stuck in a canal/covid supply chain issues….. legal issues.
“I mean, otherwise we’d be shipping games like, yesterday.”
Does anyone believe this “legal issues” argument?
DR is basically saying - ‘for the last 7 years that we’ve been working on RAZA we have just now discovered a “legal issue” with RAZA or the IP surrounding it, and we can’t ship games.’ It’s not even a licensed game. Does that make sense to anyone??
If it was a PPP issue, you could still build and ship games. At this point, the only thing preventing DR from building games is DR.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:…we all are still wondering.
I wouldn’t go quite that far. Most of us can see where this is headed.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Omnibus of Mueller speaking content for intrepid audio editors:
He reminds me of a shitty business partner I had once. The guy loved owning an LLC, having a webpage, business cards, business email address, trademarks, etc…. he loved everything except actually DOING business.
Totally
Fucking
Worthless
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Where's the Pinbar patent application?
[quoted image]
Overview: https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2021133990A1
Full pdf: https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/17/09/1c/d13930e57e896b/WO2021133990A1.pdf
The “global” patent is garbage. USPTO is what you want to search.
Furthermore, there would be two separate US patents. One for the touchscreen and one for the glass lift.
Quoted from benheck:[quoted image]
The horse has been beaten into a mist so fine it can pass through your N95 masks but STILL bears repeating.... JPOP AT THE WHEEL.
Don’t fret - if AP keeps cranking out games like Hot Weels they probably won’t be around too long.
Quoted from Roostking:Here is some constructive advice. Scrap pinball all together and focus on the pinpod(tm). Paint it, bling it up with some art from the many illustrators they had.
Put a touch screen on it!
Quoted from ZNET:Such colloquialisms don't bother me as much. "It's all downhill from here" is similar insofar as its actual meaning is the opposite of its intended meaning.
The misuse of the apostrophe is most maddening to me. The word "it's" means IT IS. (e.g. It's unfortunate that deeproot is a failed venture.)
Ninety-eight percent of the population wrongly thinks that adding the apostrophe makes the word possessive, as in: "RAZA and it's pinbar are not innovative." That nonsensical sentence as written actually means: RAZA and IT IS pinbar are not innovative."
Another pet peeve often seen here and elsewhere is the incorrect abbreviation of et cetera (etc.) as ect.
Carry on.
A quick reference guide for the grammatically challenged…..
A4FD95AA-8259-4591-BC42-0F52B2ADE9AF (resized).jpeg
1 week later
Quoted from jonesjb:I saw there is a SEC document against Deeproot, I guess it's possible that the defendants are found not guilty? If so, is it possible that RAZA's still get made, and we might see them on location later this year?
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