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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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Topic index (key posts)

360 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #111 Firsthand information from the Magic Girl programmer. Posted by applejuice (6 years ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by PinMonk (4 years ago)

Post #5771 First RAZA gameplay video Posted by ZMeny (4 years ago)

Post #5874 RAZA video with more audible game sounds Posted by zaphX (4 years ago)

Post #5926 First RAZA video with successful ramp completion Posted by zaphX (4 years ago)

Post #5967 Another RAZA gameplay video Posted by flynnibus (4 years ago)

Post #6050 Closeup pictures of key playfield features Posted by Potatoloco (4 years ago)

Post #6133 Video of display animations Posted by LateCenturyMods (4 years ago)

Post #6329 Summary of Robert Mueller's interview Posted by jeffspinballpalace (4 years ago)

Post #6724 RAZA Gameplay video Posted by DS_Nadine (4 years ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#13411 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Looks great. Nice to see Deeproot try different things. Lets see how much these will cost and how reliable they are in pinball standards. Also, how good is the code? What I saw seemed fun, different, cool, and I want Deeproot to succeed, and create more. They are doing something different and I know a lot of people hesitate change, but I welcome it. Nice to have another flavor. This particular machine is not for me, unless price is right, but I am excited to see what they come up with next. Wish them success and a successful launch. Would love to see more streams with different angles.

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#13546 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from frolic:

The arcade version looks best, imo.
It's even missing the ego credits at the bottom of the translite.

No way! I didn't even notice that. The ego credits did bother me. Good eye, love the arcade version even more now!

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#13547 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from zenbone:

I like the look of the game and i am one of the few that thinks the theme is good (seriously, i like it). i can never and would never get a machine that i need to make monthly payments to keep it up to date. all the other monthly crap pulling from my wallet the last thing i need is to worry about a pinball update payment. just can't

And $50 a month to boot! With a 1 year minimum subscription. Imagine they only had 2 updates in that year.

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#13594 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Yah, if Deeproot is subscription base, and I feel like I need to pay $50 a month to enjoy their games, then it's a solid no for me and I will never look at Deeproot again as an option. If others follow, it will also be a no from me, as well and explore other options. It's okay if I never purchase another pin again. More money in my pocket. Adobe tried the same thing, years ago, never purchased Adobe again and I still make graphics. My cable company started nickle and diming me for everything, cancelled them too. My phone company followed suit. I don't think these companies realize, I don't need them, they need me. I don't even spend $50 a month at an arcade, so why would I own a pin at this point paying at least $5000 upfront plus now I'm making payments on it for as long as I "own" it. Not making sense. If you roll over and accept this...good for you. If I'm paying subscription, I'll go to a barcade, but this will also hurt their bottom dollar, and pinball industry, that is doing well now, will hit another wall if they all follow suit. That's my prediction. Also I believe DR, will sink before they can even swim if they are trying to pull wool over peoples eyes this early. They already have a bad taste in peoples mouth, giving them more ammunition with this subscription BS will be the final nail. I'll wait to see what they are all about when they announce the game officially.

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#13611 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from HamburglarHunk:

Here is a little gameplay I took. Have a bunch of other photos I can add if anyone is interested.

What did you think of the game?

At :47 in the second video the target is knocked loose. Notice the slings in the stream were weak and non responsive. Game doesn't seem polished.

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#13622 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from HamburglarHunk:

Link to the full set of pictures. https://imgur.com/a/mFbWeB3
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Thanks for the pics and summary. Is that a small black spinner disc where Twister Spins insert is pointing to? And I was talking about the "Monkey" target that got knocked loose during a hit. no biggie

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#13660 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from jawjaw:

Plenty said they would never pay more than $5000 or whatever amount for nib. $10k by Christmas is no longer a joke. Toppers went from laughable garbage ripoff to begging Stern to make more. It's coming. Soon all games will be connecting to the internet and the opportunity is there. Everyone is ripping deeproot but I think everyone will be doing this to some degree very soon.

It will spell the end of Pinball. No joke, majority of people purchase these machines to make money. Now with COVID, and people slowly going back to arcades eventually, it's becoming harder to be an operator. You don't make operators suffer even more with $50 subscription, in addition to maintenance costs and the lower popularity of pins in an arcade, there is too much risk to purchase a machine and you start to look elsewhere for income. $50 a month means the first 25-50 people playing that game that month are playing for free, and they are sending that steel ball flying in your playfield, ruining it, breaking things along the way, tilting the machine, while you make NO money. So basically you need 50 extra plays a month to break even to what you were originally making when there wasn't a subscription. Again, factor in barcades, might not be hot spots with people fearing germs post covid and DR is just setting itself up for failure. Not a smart business move. Also home owners are now purchasing $5000 machines, and then basically paying rent on them for $50 a month. Not cool, especially when there are months that go by and maybe you play once or twice. Factor in, the game might suck, you don't want it after 3 months, and you're stuck with a full year subscription on a game you no longer have. Pinball will go extinct if other companies follow suit with this $50/month subscription. I'm all for Deeproot doing it, so they fail hard and other companies can learn from their mistake. I was semi excited about this game, but looks like DR greed runs DEEP!

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#13679 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from toyotaboy:

I also imagine this.. You get your goonies pinball. With your purchase price, you get licensed art on the playfield, you get "the world" of the goonies (sort of like how Stern Jurassic park is the world with the music, Ned.. but no clips, no ford explorer)... no actual goonies call outs or video clips. You figure "well this is all good", then deeproot's next update comes and it includes a bunch of licensed stuff. You try to stick to your guns, I'm not paying $500 to get licensed content, this should have come with the game. Then you start seeing pinball streams, you get jealous, and you cave. DR realize now that they have a revenue stream, they dig deeper. The next licensed game is even more stripped down, and they get 2 years of DLC out of their customer base.

Don't worry...Deeproot won't make it to Goonies, they will fold before Goonies ever sees light.

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#13741 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from John_I:

Imagine owning a game that has been subscribed for two years and suddenly it reverts to the base software load because DR pull the plug on their online service? Just sayin.

Not hard to imagine, it's DR mantra.
Also not hard to imagine DR going out of business too. It took over 8 years to "reveal" RAZA....at that rate we will see a new game in 2028...maybe later? DR is all talk, all greed. Wrong staff there. Some good ideas, but they come from a pit of greed...for that reason, I'm out. I would purchase RAZA at $5000, but I won't sign up for any monthly payments or put up with any micro transactions. This is pinball, not a phone app. If I wanted a phone app I'd purchase one. The company is already leaving a bad taste in my mouth. The way they've conducted this "reveal" is a sneak peek into how they do business, delays, rushing poor product, poor communication, more delays, cart before the horse way of business. DR has a lot of red flags, and should be ignored. If JJP is an established company and is having a hard time delivering their newest machine, I find it hard to believe DR has it all figured out, especially when everything they've done so far has been a mess. They over promise and don't deliver. Too many chances and too many do-overs to have any faith in DR. They should just fold now and save face.

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#13798 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from Lounge:

The last thing I want in entertainment is another ‘thing’ that depends on internet connectivity to work correctly.

True, My router now has, one nest thermostat, camera security system, two ring doorbells, gaming console, 4 computers, couple laptops, JJP GnR, couple cell phones, couple ipads, television, garage door opener, vehicle while in garage uses my internet, Amazon lights, couple echos, printer, and there are at least 3 more items I'm forgetting. I really don't know how much more my router can handle.

2 weeks later
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#14488 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

So what's the over under that Deeproot folds before Feburary 2021?

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#14494 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from kermit24:

Too early. A real bet would be by the end of 2021.

Yah that's a safer bet, but I don't know. They want pre-orders in by end of December? Then maybe wait a month to see if any more orders trickle in and then what? Actually build the games? LMAO!...My guess is sit on their hands for a bit, blame low preorder turnout and shut down February or March while running away with full deposits once again. Too many red flags, a company like Deeproot demanding full deposit, and a one month window creating FOMO, and then what is the next step? A factory magically appears and makes the games? Deeproot all of a sudden firing on all cylinders and knows what they are doing, and starts distributing machines? or...or...we follow the same trend that's been going on for 8-9 years with RAZA and NEVER see it in the wild...I don't know...one of those makes more sense to me. Think about it, this game has been in production for like 8 years and when it was time to reveal it back in September, it was a no show, Deeproot when dark for months, only to release it at a cafe and now its ready to sell? Come on, sooooo many red flags and people still buying this thing? They can't do anything right, not even a simple thing as a launch, but somehow they are going to figure it all out in December....okay. I also have land on the Sun I'd like to sell you.

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#14507 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from wrb1977:

Exactly correct.

Non-refundable. I still have property on the sun if people want to purchase it...get it now before Christmas before space runs out!

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#14509 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from transprtr4u:

Hoping when you move to your prime lot there you have internet , because these insightful posts would be missed.

Can't wait to revisit this threat in March with the "I told you so". Game has been in development for 8+ years, launch was a fail, previous company was a fail, yet, ready to take non refundable money and the sheep are lined up. Any of the deep 6 purchasing a machine? They were there first hand and not one has admitted to submitting non-refundable deposit. I guess you can lead a thirsty man to a lake, but you can't make him drink. Again, prime locations available only $20 a square foot...get it while the property is hot hot hot!

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#14514 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from Yelobird:

Lol because a technical journalist was invited to an unveiling they Must be a customer? Where do you come up with this stuff? You are welcome to come play our Raza when it Will arrive.

There is nothing more that I want, then to people to get their Raza. I don't want to see anyone ripped off. However, a man once told me "fool me once shame on your fool me twice, a fool can't get fooled again." I'm rooting for you guys! Deeproot doesn't interest me as a homeowner, but I'm intrigued enough to play one on location.

But back to the "journalists"...its pretty sad when "pinball manufacture company" full of "professional pinballers", were told by "journalists" essentially their machine is super flawed and needed to be fixed...and shouldn't be launched. A company that spent over 8 years on this ONE TITLE, yet journalists spent what an hour and ripped it apart. Doesn't instil confidence in me.

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#14515 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from transprtr4u:

Meanwhile till then you can keep guessing what titles other companies are putting out, seeing as your so connected!

Don't be a hater. Guessed? Shooting 100% is guessing? Guess I should get a lotto ticket! Maybe Canadians have a different exchange rate on percentage. I don't know what that converts to in metric eh. Maybe it converts to a boot 420% correct.

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#14516 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

double post.

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#14548 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from TreyBo69:

Quoting Robert
On deposits
>Any money that is coming in from customers right now in full payments or deposits is being held in an account. It isn’t being used to buy parts, its not being used to pay payroll…I don’t consider what we’re doing now a pre-order. A pre-order is – hey give me the money because I go out and I can’t buy the parts and I can’t do anything without that money…we haven’t called this a pre-order and it isn’t a preorder.
Then why do you need the money?
I get they need a semi-firm number on how many units to produce....but have a little faith in your product and order enough parts for at least 100-200 units to get the ball rolling. He just said it wasn't being spent on overhead or parts....so he's lying or has little faith in RAZA despite him sinking millions into this venture over the years. What's another half million investment to get 100+ machines built and ready for delivery?
On manufacturing
>We’ve decided not to show pictures of what we’re doing. It is a trade secret, so we haven’t shown that.
How convenient
I really doubt any of the major manufacturers would glean anything useful from photos of their factory. If anything they'd probably laugh

Robert is salesman. He's saying all the right things to get your money. If you think about it and use your brain like you are here, then he would get no money, but some people are happy to part with their money and put faith in a company that historically has not earned any faith or confidence, quite the opposite. But hey, if developing a simple pinball machine, (which is easy), for 8 years, blown deadlines, and reveals, people leaving the company, and no proof of manufacturing is your idea of confidence, then go ahead, open your wallets to deeproot...what could go wrong?

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#14577 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

This will be my final piece on Deeproot. Deeproot underestimates pinball. They haven't shown any manufacturing, which is scary because most people will tell you how DIFFICULT it is. They couldn't even do a reveal properly on a machine that has been in the works for over 8 years, yet, somehow they are going to figure out manufacturing in a month or so. They touted some new playfield tech that could take a hammer, and people that saw it said the playfield was horrible, almost unplayable. BUT, here is the BIGGEST issue people are overseeing. Deeproot already created a manufacturing nightmare by making machine a la carte. The logistics is bottlenecking the manufacturing process before it even begins. Giving all these options on machines is such a bad idea, which you can add to the pile of bad ideas that this company has come up with. I want people to get their machines, and I actually like the look of RAZA and would love to play it on location one day, I also like that the Deeproot team are proud and have the creative juices flowing, but reality sinks in when it comes to manufacturing, and they already created a bunch of hurdles on an already difficult task. I hope they prove me wrong and they figure something out and are efficient in their process. Good luck to those that put a payment down, may you have beautiful machines and may they be awesome. I applaud Deeproot for coming out with great looking machines at the price point they came up with. Lets see them follow through and deliver. However, if the machine does land in peoples hands, I'm still a skeptic of the nickel and diming of customers for owning the machine, and the quality.

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#14612 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

"If you have nothing nice to say, better say nothing at all."

Says the guy that just finished ripping into me for questioning my facts with his opinion.

That's BoNkErS!

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#14635 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Your "invented" facts (lies) are neither a fact nor an opinion.
If you want to proof my "opinion" wrong, that'd be easy. Please explain how 9 (September)+1=12 (December).
Or show where anyone of the "deep six" said/ wrote the orange peel playfield was unplayable (because of the orange peel/ quality and NOT because other stuff completely out of context).
Pinsiders did. You did. And just as in your show you repeat assumed things so often that you accept them as a fact and forget you made them up all by yourself.

From the deep six's mouth to your ears! Skip to the 5:15 mark.

I also don't have a show. It's getting really weird at pinside, where everyone that's a jerk to me, also thinks I have a podcast. I do not. I have no time for that, nor would I ever want to have a podcast.

Also I don't understand your month calculation...are you questioning me saying they need to figure out manfacturing in a month or so? Ok...let me explain. It's currently December, they are promising machines in February. That's a month...or so. They should be manufacturing now, or next month if they want to ship a machine by FEB.

You somehow believe I'm Kaneda, even though I've constantly said I'm not him...fact...that's not an opinion, I would know if I was him because...I'm not him. But yet, you have a hard time believing actual facts presented. No fact has been presented that I'm Kaneda...yet you easily believe that I am. I give you references, testimonials from people that were there, company history...and I'm making up "facts" and "opinons". I'm at a point in my life where when facts can't win arguments, you just walk away. I walked away from this thread saying "this was my last piece on Deeproot", but I just had to answer you because of the whole podcaster thing, it's insane!

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#14641 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from wrb1977:

I REALLY wish you would have kept your word from your earlier post where you said that it would be your final piece on deeproot.

I did! I never made another post about them. I'm just replying to people calling me a liar and assuming I'm a podcaster. I think that's fair.

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#14647 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from beergut666:

Sorry your fee fees are hurt, maybe try not running your mouth so much.[quoted image]

Yah, it's the only forum that someone wished my family got covid and that I have a baby with autism. That is the first time in my life anyone has ever said that, and first time I heard anyone say it to someone else. That is pretty extreme.

Didn't know pinball brought out this much hate in people. I have never said anything bad about anyone or addressed anyone negatively. Yet I keep taking a beating all because the group think here thinks, I'm someone else. Makes total sense!

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#14669 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Just stop making things up and quit the "I told you so" and your problem will vanish.
If everyone thinks that you're Kaneda, that is because you behave like Kaneda.
And if you behave like Kaneda, you will be treated like Kaneda.
So if you are Kaneda or not is irrelevant.
If you don't want to be treated like Kaneda, stop to behave like Kaneda.
Wich means, if you aren't Kaneda, stop to behave like yourself.

Bro....someone either challenged you to say Kaneda as many times as possible, or you have an unhealthy obsession with him. BTW, the last line of your Haiku broke my brain.

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