(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 1 day ago by DS_Nadine
  • Topic is favorited by 249 Pinsiders

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Topic index (key posts)

17 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 15537 posts in this topic. You are on page 94 of 311.
#4651 1 year ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

With all the quality issues with pins lately the door is certainly open for Deeproot to make a splash. Make a super solid pin with great quality and use that fact against your competitors.

Lately?

#4652 1 year ago

Seems to me quality has taken a nosedive the last few years. And now the clearcoat issue which is a huge. Like I said.....door is open for someone.

#4653 1 year ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

Is it just me or is wolfemaaan sound like kaneda's annoying younger sibling...

Hes a troll who should be banned.

#4654 1 year ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

So are you under the impression Deeproot is a Ponzi Scheme and an illegitimate umbrella of companies? I'm confused on what point you're trying to make here.

Yes, you are confused. Get off DR jock without knowing the full story.

-21
#4655 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Did you miss those key words "investors" and "investment"?
Making money and having money are not interchangeable concepts. I said they were well "funded" which means money they had access to. Nothing in the same discussion about "making money".
"Funded" is money coming from investors - not customers

That’s called revenue buddy, look it up. Once again though, what is your point here? They have enough money, however you chose to define it, in order to run this business. Not sure why you are having an issue with them. They’ve done nothing illegal and yet you seem to have a tone that they have. You're not an investor, so what is it? Is this J-pop who hurt your feelings. Come on, you can admit it. You need a J-pop hug don’t you?

-10
#4656 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Hes a troll who should be banned.

You have 1 machine and curious what your purpose is to remain here? Maybe you should leave? Is there any positive reason you have for being here? If not, go somewhere else

#4657 1 year ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

You have 1 machine and curious what your purpose is to remain here? Maybe you should leave? Is there any positive reason you have for being here? If not, go somewhere else

One machine and infinitly more smarts than you. You clearly do not understand the difference between funding and revenue.

Also, I am DR target customer. Non brand loyal and looking for prices to be brought down. Hopefully they deliver.

#4658 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

One machine and infinitly more smarts than you. You clearly do not understand the difference between funding and revenue.
Also, I am DR target customer. Non brand loyal and looking for prices to be brought down. Hopefully they deliver.

Ok, well it’s hard to tell with all the negativity towards Deeproot. But if you are truely a DR future customer, well then carry on

17
#4659 1 year ago

Is there a pinside achievement for most thread ejects in a week?

#4660 1 year ago
Quoted from ectobar:

Is there a pinside achievement for most thread ejects in a week?

Yes, the Pinside Darwin award.

18
#4661 1 year ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

You have 1 machine and curious what your purpose is to remain here? Maybe you should leave? Is there any positive reason you have for being here? If not, go somewhere else

Says the guy who has rated 19 pinballs with a score of 1.

LOL.

#4662 1 year ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Says the guy who has rated 19 pinballs with a score of 1.
LOL.

The comments on the ratings are worse.

Says “meh” 1.0 rating for Metallica.

#4663 1 year ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Says the guy who has rated 19 pinballs with a score of 1.
LOL.

That's one thing I think should be fixed by Pinside. There shouldn't be any ratings lower then a 3. Anyone rating games under this is either just trying to manipulate the games rating or just trying to be a horses a$$.

#4664 1 year ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

That's one thing I think should be fixed by Pinside. There shouldn't be any ratings lower then a 3. Anyone rating games under this is either just trying to manipulate the games rating or just trying to be a horses a$$.

But then there would be no way to properly rate SF2!

12
#4665 1 year ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

That's one thing I think should be fixed by Pinside. There shouldn't be any ratings lower then a 3. Anyone rating games under this is either just trying to manipulate the games rating or just trying to be a horses a$$.

But then wouldn't a 3 become the same as a 1?

#4666 1 year ago

Junk ratings are junk ratings no matter what the score is. It’s the root problem with the idea of crowd sourced ratings from the start and why the system will never be worth a shit.

16
#4667 1 year ago

If each person was allowed one ten and one one, the system would be a little better. Not averaging pro/prem/LE killed any semblance of genuine ratings the list ever had. Such a bad choice.

Really enjoyed wolf's IMDNLE review:

"Game is overrated. Like it and fun to play, but not top 10 or maybe even 20. Huge easy ramp in the middle is why noobs like this game." 1/10.

L-O fucking L!

#4668 1 year ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

But then wouldn't a 3 become the same as a 1?

Not really. The whole idea would be to limit how far a frivolous rating would pull down a real rating. Or should I say the effect a junk rating would have on a real one.
Lets face it. No matter how bad a game is or how much one hates it, there should be no games honestly rated as a one. I know all rating are influenced by everyone's own personal preferences that's way I say there should be a limit to how far down a game could be rated. But I rated Stargate at 8.2 and IMDN at 8.0 so what do I know????

#4669 1 year ago

I‘d say a thorough discussion of the Pinside Top 100 is the best way now to keep this thread afloat.

#4670 1 year ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

If each person was allowed one ten and one one, the system would be a little better. Not averaging pro/prem/LE killed any semblance of genuine ratings the list ever had. Such a bad choice.
Really enjoyed wolf's IMDNLE review:
"Game is overrated. Like it and fun to play, but not top 10 or maybe even 20. Huge easy ramp in the middle is why noobs like this game." 1/10.
L-O fucking L!

Some are hilarious. I spent really good time reading his ratings:
Here is JD (1.5)

« Probably the all time worst pinball game ever made. Safe cracker is a close second. Where do I start? You basically have 2 areas in the game you can play. Crappy upfield or crappy lower playfield. If you blink the ball will drain. If you try and control a shot, the ball will drain. If you get multiball, you will have a triple drain within 15 seconds. If this game didn’t have outlines it would still figure out a way to drain »

Pinball is a hobby and everything doesn’t have to be serious.

#4671 1 year ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

If each person was allowed one ten and one one, the system would be a little better. Not averaging pro/prem/LE killed any semblance of genuine ratings the list ever had. Such a bad choice.
Really enjoyed wolf's IMDNLE review:
"Game is overrated. Like it and fun to play, but not top 10 or maybe even 20. Huge easy ramp in the middle is why noobs like this game." 1/10.
L-O fucking L!

Because nobody ever creates fake accounts?

Online reviews shouldn't be taken seriously (any of them). Trolls, confirmation bias, new games getting the novelty bonus, astroturfing, and review bombing play a part. Also some people have very strong feelings about a game.

to11.gif
#4672 1 year ago
Quoted from Brijam:

Because nobody ever creates fake accounts?
Online reviews shouldn't be taken seriously (any of them). Trolls, confirmation bias, new games getting the novelty bonus, astroturfing, and review bombing play a part. Also some people have very strong feelings about a game.[quoted image]

That doesn't mean Robin and crew shouldn't do their best to try to help alleviate these issues. For example, averaging models helps to calm the excessive ratings of LE owners. To me, this would be common sense design. I Like it or not, the top 100 is the most popular part of pinside, and I felt that before the model
ranking issue, the list was pretty representative of what I consider to be the great, good, average, not so good and garbage machines. Now it has the disease of every new LE in the top 20...

#4673 1 year ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

That's one thing I think should be fixed by Pinside. There shouldn't be any ratings lower then a 3. Anyone rating games under this is either just trying to manipulate the games rating or just trying to be a horses a$$.

Have you played Thunderbirds? But agree, that game is the exception to the rule.

#4674 1 year ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

That doesn't mean Robin and crew shouldn't do their best to try to help alleviate these issues. For example, averaging models helps to calm the excessive ratings of LE owners. To me, this would be common sense design. I Like it or not, the top 100 is the most popular part of pinside, and I felt that before the model
ranking issue, the list was pretty representative of what I consider to be the great, good, average, not so good and garbage machines. Now it has the disease of every new LE in the top 20...

I agree with all that. In the meantime almost all my nib purchases have been made from pinside top 100 comments and rankings because no where near me to play.

I wish some company would open up within 200 miles of me and have all 3 models on display so I could see first hand what you get for the extra money.

As far as my ratings, and I have not rated much, I gave JJPPOTC a 10 with no comment. The reason is I have 4 games in the top 10, and 3 never gets played anymore since POTC came into the lineup. 2 friends does still love AC/DC and I would actually sell that game now if they did not like it so much. MET never gets played anymore(nor does the rest), but I would never get rid of it because of Sparky and the hammer is just too cool IMO.

#4675 1 year ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

That doesn't mean Robin and crew shouldn't do their best to try to help alleviate these issues. For example, averaging models helps to calm the excessive ratings of LE owners. To me, this would be common sense design. I Like it or not, the top 100 is the most popular part of pinside, and I felt that before the model
ranking issue, the list was pretty representative of what I consider to be the great, good, average, not so good and garbage machines. Now it has the disease of every new LE in the top 20...

LEs just exaggerate a simple problem that was always there. Most people can’t be objective about something they are heavily vested in. The more money in... the bigger the problem.

Crowd sourced reviews are always going to be junk. Since the reviews are done by those with energy to do it... instead of true random sampling... you don’t get the averaging out of bad reviewers.

Compound this that many reviewers simply don’t know what they are talking about... you get a “popularity contest”... not actual worthy reviews. That’s why new games always surge to the top group of the ratings.

The solution is either vetted raters- or just change it to a simple scale and allow (or solicit users to pump up participation) to acknowledge what they think of a title. Like/dislike/indifferent and list games by their percentages

And “most popular part of pinsidde”? I can’t think of anyone I know that uses it at all... maybe in page views... but how much of that is search engines, etc.

#4676 1 year ago

Agreed. Just look at all the issues Rotten Tomatoes has had with their rating system, and that system is pretty central to their business model.

#4677 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

LEs just exaggerate a simple problem that was always there. Most people can’t be objective about something they are heavily vested in. The more money in... the bigger the problem.
Crowd sourced reviews are always going to be junk. Since the reviews are done by those with energy to do it... instead of true random sampling... you don’t get the averaging out of bad reviewers.
Compound this that many reviewers simply don’t know what they are talking about... you get a “popularity contest”... not actual worthy reviews. That’s why new games always surge to the top group of the ratings.
The solution is either vetted raters- or just change it to a simple scale and allow (or solicit users to pump up participation) to acknowledge what they think of a title. Like/dislike/indifferent and list games by their percentages
And “most popular part of pinsidde”? I can’t think of anyone I know that uses it at all... maybe in page views... but how much of that is search engines, etc.

I agree in general but also see the system as somewhat accurate. The old w/b titles at the top are top games imho. I'm not a huge fan of AFM, but I can objectively see why ppl love it. It's like IMDb I guess. It makes sense of you strip out the recent blockbusters.

#4678 1 year ago
Quoted from branlon8:

I‘d say a thorough discussion of the Pinside Top 100 is the best way now to keep this thread afloat.

If the discussion is now Pinside top 100, would someone please explain why there is a pitch and bat game in the pinball top 100? (or in the list at all, it isn't even like pinball ) .

Lost any credibility it may have once had from me now, has just become a complete joke! Lol

#4679 1 year ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Like it or not, the top 100 is the most popular part of pinside, and I felt that before the model

Quoted from flynnibus:

And “most popular part of pinsidde”? I can’t think of anyone I know that uses it at all

The top 10 is for sure the first thing that brought me to pinside when I got into pinball. I'd estimate it was at least a year after before I "discovered" the forum and a lot longer after that before I started reading the forum regularly (and even posting).

I think the top100 is probably more accurate than people give it credit for. But mostly it's fun. Like anything in internet, you have to decide for yourself what to take seriously and what not.

11
#4680 1 year ago

I start with and often stop after reading Caucasian2Step's review.

#4681 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

LEs just exaggerate a simple problem that was always there. Most people can’t be objective about something they are heavily vested in. The more money in... the bigger the problem.

I never posted many reviews, but I had to admit to myself I'm biased towards the machines I own, so I stopped participating. If I can have that clarity for myself, then its true for just about everyone, and I haven't even looked at the charts in years.

#4682 1 year ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

If the discussion is now Pinside top 100, would someone please explain why there is a pitch and bat game in the pinball top 100? (or in the list at all, it isn't even like pinball ) .
Lost any credibility it may have once had from me now, has just become a complete joke! Lol

Since it's pinsiders who vote, it's pinsiders that loose credibility.
Since you're a pinsider on pinside you just lost all your credibility from yourself.

10
#4683 1 year ago

**WARNING** Kaneda Alert. - Avert your eyes if you're sensitive.

Robert Mueller sent an email to Kaneda which is read verbatim on his most recent podcast, Episode 389, "Just Wait". It concerns playfield issues that are presently happening in the industry and what Deeproot intends to do. I found it interesting, worthwhile, and on topic for this thread. Imagine that, on topic.

https://soundcloud.com/kanedapinball

You can fast forward to about the 20 minute mark to get to Roberts email.

#4684 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Imagine that, on topic.

Stone Him!

#4685 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Since it's pinsiders who vote, it's pinsiders that loose credibility.
Since you're a pinsider on pinside you just lost all your credibility from yourself.

I never came for the top 100 at all though, and like others have said I could never see the point in reviewing, as I've little to compare really, and would likely be overly biased anyway... so yeah probably not much pinball reviewing credibility to start with . Many of the top games from here and IPDB I don't think are that great myself, that is personal preference though isn't it. I haven't done a single review, and not planning to.

Fact is Pitch and Bat isn't even pinball though, was simply my point. Lol

21
#4686 1 year ago

Robert would be in a better position if he were promoting his actual product that was on sale that was demonstrably superior and not just a vapor email denigrating his competition.

#4687 1 year ago

Concerns about the top-100 are overrated.

#4688 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

Robert would be in a better position if he were promoting his actual product that was on sale that was demonstrably superior and not just a vapor email denigrating his competition.

Maybe, but at least he is outspoken and has the right attitude.
Now, if he backs that smack up with fun high quality games, then we have a winner!
But I guess you are right, it's easy to boast about vaporware

#4689 1 year ago

Since Robert has bailed on Pinside, which I believe was a smart move by him, I think it's better served for him to promote Deeproot via a written news release such as this. No judgment on content but I hope to see/hear more of this.

#4690 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

I never posted many reviews, but I had to admit to myself I'm biased towards the machines I own

I think that's true for most people. It's also the other way around though: you'd sooner buy games you really like, so it makes sense that you rate those higher.

About Robert Muellers statement: nothing special. It's unacceptable, the competition is screwing things up, and we'll do better.
.....
let's see a Deeproot production game first
.....

IMO: No reason to listen to the podcast (I'm sorry, I did listen to that part, even though I wasn't really expecting anything :p ).

#4691 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

I never posted many reviews, but I had to admit to myself I'm biased towards the machines I own, so I stopped participating. If I can have that clarity for myself, then its true for just about everyone, and I haven't even looked at the charts in years.

Another way to view it is... chicken and the egg. Which came first, the buy, or the feeling of greatness. I think all my games are top titles... but that’s because I sourced the games based on the proven play of the game and what I thought of the game. For nib new release buyers... most will sell the games they ultimately decide they didn’t like... but there is a honeymoon period... and when the distinction isn’t that great... it’s harder to be critical on your own buying decisions. Just human nature...

#4692 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Since Robert has bailed on Pinside, which I believe was a smart move by him, I think it's better served for him to promote Deeproot via a written news release such as this. No judgment on content but I hope to see/hear more of this.

You mean one way promotion where the author controls the message and who is allowed to question or follow up?

It’s why people leave forums and goto twitter or blogs where they can self moderate and control who/if anyone can have an equal platform to respond to their content.

It’s not a good thing - it’s a method to control the message. And Instead of just making a blog post... he sends it to Chris who has a bigger built in audience... and he knows he can swoon Chris into being his amplifier.

It’s manipulation- not progress.

Edit: listening to the clip... probably Chris reached out to him for comment...and Robert just gave his opinion as a hobbyist. Nothing of interest here or even new credible informed opinions

#4693 1 year ago

Lots of credible, informed opinions from this talk show host though... even about the hammer test...

https://www.captiongenerator.com/1495592/Has-Stern-taken-maximizing-profits-too-far

#4694 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

You mean one way promotion where the author controls the message and who is allowed to question or follow up?
It’s why people leave forums and goto twitter or blogs where they can self moderate and control who/if anyone can have an equal platform to respond to their content. It’s not a good thing - it’s a method to control the message. And Instead of just making a blog post... he sends it to Chris who has a bigger built in audience... and he knows he can swoon Chris into being his amplifier.
It’s manipulation- not progress.

mr68 didn't call it progress or a good, he said it was a "smart move" for deeproot to stop posting on Pinside. Which it is. There's just nothing to be gained by engaging in back and forth on the forums when you can get your message out just as effectively, under much more controlled conditions, through other venues. Stern and JJP reached the same conclusion, whether it's "good" or not it is a sound business decision.

#4695 1 year ago

Robert was basically destroying his brand by coming on here and having a dialog. There is literally no way to win an argument in an open forum, and he was posting on his own without anyone advising him. Pure catastrophic posts that I will indeed miss. But his company/chances are much improved now that he has woken up and realized he is in a no-win scenario in this thread.

-1
#4696 1 year ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

mr68 didn't call it progress or a good, he said it was a "smart move" for deeproot to stop posting on Pinside. Which it is. There's just nothing to be gained by engaging in back and forth on the forums when you can get your message out just as effectively, under much more controlled conditions, through other venues. Stern and JJP reached the same conclusion, whether it's "good" or not it is a sound business decision.

Engagement is a good thing. - trick is it takes the right kind of people. Completely disengaging is a retreat and just hunkering down. It’s not a good thing for consumers.

#4697 1 year ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Robert was basically destroying his brand by coming on here and having a dialog. There is literally no way to win an argument in an open forum, and he was posting on his own without anyone advising him. Pure catastrophic posts that I will indeed miss. But his company/chances are much improved now that he has woken up and realized he is in a no-win scenario in this thread.

I completely agree, yet it is sad that pinside has a tendency to drive a lot of industry people off.

#4698 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Engagement is a good thing. - trick is it takes the right kind of people. Completely disengaging is a retreat and just hunkering down. It’s not a good thing for consumers.

Whether or not it's good for consumers, it's a smart business decision for pinball manufacturers to disengage from forums and stick to controlled media outlets. Doesn't mean you don't monitor the forums and respond to specific complaints offline if necessary. But the imbalance in the risk/reward of actively engaging seems pretty obvious.

#4699 1 year ago

I am guessing Deeproot playfields are some kind of composite material.

So, they can't have all these clear issues.

#4700 1 year ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

I am guessing Deeproot playfields are some kind of composite material.
So, they can't have all these clear issues.

its also possible its still wood but they have a better process. spooky figured out a better way to clear. my guess is there are better water based clearcoats that bite, or perhaps its 2 different clears. one to bite into the wood, and one that adheres to that first clear better (and hardens faster) so you dont have posts smooshing the soft top layer. its not like car manufacturers are clearing the body and waiting a week for it to dry before they finish assembling all the exterior pieces.

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