(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

1 year ago



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There are 5629 posts in this topic. You are on page 86 of 113.
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#4251 3 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

If swappable games are what you want, let me introduce you to @multimorphic
Producing games right now with playfield modules that can be swapped in a minute or two.

No thanks.
If that's the case, just go the "home game" route like Vacation America. That went over big too.

48
#4252 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It’s a dumb idea that doesn’t work in pinball. People just don’t want swappable playfield and “kits.”

Quoted from Taxman:

I can't believe the swappable playfield is still a thing. 19 years ago Pin2k did this. I have known lots of people with an RFM and a SWEp1 playfield in the closet that will never go back in the cabinet. Then when they go to sell the game they have to try and make a deal to unload it all or be stuck with the PF.
Full Throttle is a decent game. But if Heighway ever shipped those Alien kits you'd never see FT again.
You will keep your favorite installed, or for Ops the one that makes the most coin.

Quoted from Fulltilt:

No thanks.
If that's the case, just go the "home game" route like Vacation America. That went over big too.

Dang, some of you really hold on to strong negative opinions based on implementations designed nearly 2 decades ago! I actually agree that P2K's implementation of playfield swappability wasn't good at all for consumers (it also wasn't designed for them). Heighway's implementation was pretty much identical and therefore also didn't make sense to me either. To conclude that playfield swappability is a bad thing because of two poor and nearly identical implementations, though, seems shortsighted. As I've argued before, if everybody thought the way you did, video game consoles would have been shunned, and one of the biggest consumer entertainment markets that's ever existed would have been DOA 45+ years ago. I know, I know... saying "video game console" in a pinball forum will turn some of you off too, but we can all learn a lot from the technical and economical progression of video game consoles.

To argue that a potentially large group of pinball-loving consumers (including a huge % of pinheads) aren't interested in saving floorspace, saving money, and having a variety of shot layouts and gameplay styles in the form of easily swappable is silly. A swappable system actually designed to make it easy and convenient to both store and swap playfields will succeed or fail largely based on size of marketing budget and how well people connect with the content.

P3 owners generally don't mind swapping their playfields daily or even hourly when they have guests over or want to play different games than the ones their kids enjoy. At the factory, we'll oftentimes change playfields in a machine 10-20 times a day for feature testing/debug. It takes under 60s and requires no tools, and a couple of playfields can easily rest under the machine or stack up nicely in a closet or corner. If you don't connect with the content, that's one thing. If you don't want to accept it as a good idea because of P2K or other poor attempts to implement a multi-game platform, that's an entirely different and closed-minded thing.
Further, I'll never understand some people's desire to try to sway the public that a well-reasoned project that people pour their heart and souls into developing ethically and economically responsibly is stupid, even regardless of their reasons.

Now whether deeproot is ethical and economically responsible remains to be seen, but a lot of people are clearly pouring their lives into it. So hopefully they are, and hopefully you won't dump on theirs or anybody else's efforts just because you didn't like another company's implementation.

- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com

14
#4253 3 months ago
Quoted from gstellenberg:

Dang, some of you really hold on to strong negative opinions based on implementations designed nearly 2 decades ago!

I apologize Gerry. I really shouldn't have an opinion as I've never played your machines. They look really cool and I'm sure are a blast to play. The quality looks spot on and the idea is great. It just is not pinball as I grew up with and want today. The Multimorphic machines are pretty sweet and the idea is excellent. Keep up the great work.

#4254 3 months ago
Quoted from gstellenberg:

To argue that a potentially large group of pinball-loving consumers (including a huge % of pinheads) aren't interested in saving floorspace, saving money, and having a variety of shot layouts and gameplay styles in the form of easily swappable is silly. A swappable system actually designed to make it easy and convenient to both store and swap playfields will succeed or fail largely based on size of marketing budget and how well people connect with the content.

I really don’t think the reason I haven’t seen any P3 systems among major collectors isn’t because of marketing.

All pinball gets boring. Collectors rotate and trade games, selling off old ones and buying new ones. It’s often why the latest game is the biggest earner at arcades.

So if you’re a collector, for a P3 game to make sense, you have to have a reasonable % of the other collectors to also have a P3 so you can sell/trade the game kits. Otherwise if you want a new game that isn’t a P3 you’d have to sell your entire collection of P3 kits and the P3 cab/root system, since the market of people who can buy just your kit is way limited.

So in order to buy the P3 system now you gotta spend 2x the price of a new Stern pro and the promise is that for an additional 1/2 the price of a pro you can get a potential second/third/etc game. The same issue will come up with deeproot if they have kit games. You’ve taken something universal, a plug in amusement device, and now it’s proprietary. That’s the worst part of video game consoles, the vendor lock in.

And that’s just collectors. If you’re an operator you want more actual games because you can put each additional game out adding to potential revenue. Kits don’t actually help them because they now have a harder time selling old kits and can’t grow their business without buying more of the 2x cost cabinets.

#4255 3 months ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

You’ve taken something universal, a plug in amusement device, and now it’s proprietary. That’s the worst part of video game consoles, the vendor lock in.

What? Pinball machines have always been proprietary. Some parts might be interchangeable, but for the most part a System 11 game needs those particular boards and a Gottlieb flipper uses different parts than a Williams.

Or is this because P3 and deeproot kits won't be compatible (a lot of assumptions to get here, but sure)? That seems like an unreasonable expectation.

#4256 3 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

What? Pinball machines have always been proprietary. Some parts might be interchangeable, but for the most part a System 11 game needs those particular boards and a Gottlieb flipper uses different parts than a Williams.

What I mean is that the pinball kits are proprietary. You can sell a System 11 pinball machine to any other collector or gameroom guy. You can't sell your Lexi Lightspeed kit or Cannon Lagoon kit unless the other person has a P3 game to put it in.

#4257 3 months ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

So if you’re a collector, for a P3 game to make sense, you have to have a reasonable % of the other collectors to also have a P3 so you can sell/trade the game kits. Otherwise if you want a new game that isn’t a P3 you’d have to sell your entire collection of P3 kits and the P3 cab/root system, since the market of people who can buy just your kit is way limited

this is not a bad point.. its going to take a big player like stern or JJP to make this a viable option. JAMMA became a standard in 1985 because most arcade games were being designed in japan and they forced the standard. im not saying we need to standardize cabinets, but perhaps the connectors to hook up playfields should be so there is at least that option to do so.

#4258 3 months ago

Dammit Robert!
This thread isnt even about deeproot anymore

Show us something to prove anything is happening!

#4259 3 months ago
Quoted from jorro:

Dammit Robert!
This thread isnt even about deeproot anymore
Show us something to prove anything is happening!

Within the 86 pages, you have less than 10 interresting posts.

Still waiting for real infos for this ghost.

#4260 3 months ago
Quoted from noitbe1:

Within the 86 pages, you have less than 10 interresting posts.

a part of his point is ...
how many does robert have?

#4261 3 months ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

how many does robert have?

« Find in Topics »
« By pinsider »

Seems not to be a real media for them here.

#4262 3 months ago

interesting posts, not just posts.

#4263 3 months ago

I wouldn't expect any substance at all until 2020, so if you're the impatient type drain the thread. Any real news will generate new topics.

#4264 3 months ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

What I mean is that the pinball kits are proprietary. You can sell a System 11 pinball machine to any other collector or gameroom guy. You can't sell your Lexi Lightspeed kit or Cannon Lagoon kit unless the other person has a P3 game to put it in.

That's two completely different things!!!

One is a complete machine, one is "the game" only. Like buying a Video game console with a game built in or just a game without the console.
Yes, you have to have the machine to use the game (or the kit) but therefore the game/ kit is cheaper then buying a (compareably new) whole game.

#4265 3 months ago
Quoted from jorro:

Dammit Robert!
This thread isnt even about deeproot anymore
Show us something to prove anything is happening!

If he/ they do the next post is:
"Oh, they have nothing to show but some pretty pictures to lure us into spending money!!!"

And the next:
"But the didn't take any preorder money!"

Next:
"I h8 them and will never buy anything of them because Jpoop is an idiot!"

Next:
"But they try to make us whole!"

Next:
"You should/ shouldn't have participated in the class action lawsuit!"

Next:
"Let's talk about interpunctuation!"

Next (added):
Robert randomly chiming in threatening to sue somebody.

...

What I want to say is:
Whatever Robert does or don't he can only fail until the games are ready.
So best stick to the announcement that was made and we get to see somethin until November and (ideally) hold up with the original goal that games will be ready to ship within 2 weeks after announcement.

#4266 3 months ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

If he/ they do the next post is:
"Oh, they have nothing to show but some pretty pictures to lure us into spending money!!!"
And the next:
"But the didn't take any preorder money!"
Next:
"I h8 them and will never buy anything of them because Jpoop is an idiot!"
Next:
"But they try to make us whole!"
Next:
"You should/ shouldn't have participated in the class action lawsuit!"
Next:
"Let's talk about interpunctuation!"
...
What I want to say is:
Whatever Robert does or don't he can only fail until the games are ready.
So best stick to the announcement that was made and we get to see somethin until November and (ideally) hold up with the original goal that games will be ready to ship within 2 weeks after announcement.

That pretty much sums up this thread! We should sticky it so people don’t have to read the whole thing. You forgot one step though, where Robert comes out of hiding and accuses someone of practicing law without a degree!

#4267 3 months ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

That pretty much sums up this thread! We should sticky it so people don’t have to read the whole thing. You forgot one step though, where Robert comes out of hiding and accuses someone of practicing law without a degree!

Added that!

#4268 3 months ago

so has anyone gotten their refund? Someone I know decided to take the refund over waiting for machines but still hasn't received anything after almost a month!

#4270 3 months ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

What I mean is that the pinball kits are proprietary. You can sell a System 11 pinball machine to any other collector or gameroom guy. You can't sell your Lexi Lightspeed kit or Cannon Lagoon kit unless the other person has a P3 game to put it in.

Well, you can sell your P3 system with a kit installed to anyone AND you can also sell your kits to other P3 users. So I would say you have an added option rather than having less options.

Furthermore, the P3 kits are not really propriety, the P3 development kit is open to 3rd party developers. So there is no reason why Stern, JJP or Deeproot for example, couldn't develop kits for the P3, Multimorphic is actually encouraging this.

#4271 3 months ago

Interesting.

5198EF33-6ACA-4068-8A6A-E0880E98AF9B (resized).jpeg
10
#4273 3 months ago
Quoted from johnnyutah:

Interesting.[quoted image]

That’ll send waves through their 48 twitter followers.

#4274 3 months ago

I’ve been away from this thread for a while, but is Deeproot still committed to shipping more pins in 2019 than any other company?

I know there have been delays until November or so, so is the plan for all these different Deeproot pins to hit the market just in time for the holiday season?

#4275 3 months ago

Not holding my breath , though I'd like to see them actually make it and produce some games. Time just keeps passing though.

#4276 3 months ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

is Deeproot still committed to shipping more pins in 2019 than any other company?

Anybody that believes that should probably be committed.

#4277 3 months ago

Yeah Deeproot better have something this year. Stern and JJP are just crankin them out and curious when we are going to hit a saturation point

#4278 3 months ago

About the time the economy goes in the tank again lol

#4279 3 months ago

I know I'm saturated and done. I like all the games in my collection and have no more room. So I'm done

#4280 3 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

About the time the economy goes in the tank again lol

O-din - nice to see you back on pinside.

#4281 3 months ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

O-din - nice to see you back on pinside.

Thanks! Holding your tongue for 7 months isn't exactly the easiest thing to do, especially around here.

#4282 3 months ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I know I'm saturated and done. I like all the games in my collection and have no more room. So I'm done

#4283 3 months ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I know I'm saturated and done. I like all the games in my collection and have no more room. So I'm done

No, tried it. You're even (a tiny bit) more saturadable*!!!
saturated (resized).jpg

*I'm sure that's not even a word!

#4284 3 months ago
Quoted from yaksplat:

Do you not like the idea of a complete game?

If you don't think that a Stern pro is "a complete game" just pretend that it does not exist, and buy the premium or LE.

Pretty simple, really.

#4285 3 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

About the time the economy goes in the tank again lol

What's that got to do with buying pins?

#4286 3 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Anybody that believes that should probably be committed.

So Deeproot retracted that statement?

#4287 3 months ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I know I'm saturated and done. I like all the games in my collection and have no more room. So I'm done

Yeah, it’s gonna take something far out to make me replace a pin. I have all the ones I wanted and the Barcade owners can hold onto and maintain the rest for me

#4288 3 months ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

So Deeproot retracted that statement?

I honestly haven't paid much attention except being 2019 is more than half over, it would be quite a miracle.

Quoted from Fulltilt:

What's that got to do with buying pins?

Look at how many companies there were and how many new pins were sold in 2008. This new pinball buying frenzy of the last 5 or so years seems to be going hand in hand with the strong, growing economy. I can't imagine another big recession will be good for new pinball manufacturing especially with the amount of games that have flooded the market in recent years.

#4289 3 months ago

With games like JP coming out, I'm done caring about this company until I see a full coded machine being streamed. Still hope they knock it out of the park, bit I won't be holding my breath.

#4290 3 months ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

So Deeproot retracted that statement?

Yes. Kinda.

Deeproot was so adamant and arrogant a year ago about how they were going to release and sell more pins in 2019 than any pinball company ever...and here we are, looking at August, and we have not even seen a single one of their "tens" of whitewoods flip. They won't even give a hint of an MSRP at this point. It is very difficult for me to believe a single piece of propaganda that comes out of the Deeproot offices from here on out. When they show me games that work, games being made and customers unboxing their games...maybe I will begin believe them. Stern continues and will continue to eat their lunch, and it isn't even close.

#4291 3 months ago

What does "one of our 2D games" mean? .... wouldn't this imply they are planning to create 3D games?

Or 4D!!

So RAZA is a 2D video game right? ... well since a pinball machine is in fact a 3D game

#4292 3 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

and we have not even seen a single one of their "tens" of whitewoods flip.

You would think with so many whitewoods in development they could show us something at this point. A layout or two, a timeline must be realistic by now if they have flippable whitewoods, something should be at a position of reveal by now...?

#4293 3 months ago

My guess is they release a bunch of virtual pins and try and tell us they never claimed to be talking about the real thing.

#4294 3 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Yes. Kinda.
Deeproot was so adamant and arrogant a year ago about how they were going to release and sell more pins in 2019 than any pinball company ever...and here we are, looking at August, and we have not even seen a single one of their "tens" of whitewoods flip. They won't even give a hint of an MSRP at this point. It is very difficult for me to believe a single piece of propaganda that comes out of the Deeproot offices from here on out. When they show me games that work, games being made and customers unboxing their games...maybe I will begin believe them. Stern continues and will continue to eat their lunch, and it isn't even close.

That doesn't sound like they retracted though, it sounds like they just went dark - so that statement is still out there.

#4295 3 months ago

If part of their business model is to jump into the app store gaming market with a new IP, I say.... good luck with that.

#4296 3 months ago
Quoted from frolic:

If part of their business model is to jump into the app store gaming market with a new IP, I say.... good luck with that.

That would be hilarious and suck at the same time, is that the people who are part of the settlement, or whatever you call it, get 2 free games from the AppStore!!! Recouping $19.98 of the original purchase price.

#4297 3 months ago
Quoted from Roostking:

That would be hilarious and suck at the same time, if the people who are part of the settlement were to get 2 free games from the AppStore.

If they were to actually do that, then they would need to delay availability until it was past the cutoff where those involved could request a refund instead.

But maybe that is why there continues to be no news from them?

#4298 3 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Deeproot was so adamant and arrogant a year ago

That is what did it for me, and the comment "outdated and uninspired pinball package as it exists in the market today".

I don't wish them anything bad. I hope they are very successful and build great games. What ever they build won't be for me.

LTG : )

#4299 3 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

the comment "outdated and uninspired pinball package as it exists in the market today".

I read that. And then I also read they are proud to be doing a licensed theme from the 80s. And Raza will take you back to the 80s.

#4300 3 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

That is what did it for me, and the comment "outdated and uninspired pinball package as it exists in the market today".
I don't wish them anything bad. I hope they are very successful and build great games. What ever they build won't be for me.
LTG : )

Same page, this exact same comment marked the end of my interest for Deeproot.

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