deeproot Pinball thread

It's not always about better/cheaper. Often processes are brought in-house because it's faster, and you have control. You realize how often a vendor can cripple a manufacturing process because "their line went down", or the BOM goes up because they decide to re-negotiate the price? This isn't necessarily a bad move honestly. Remember when Stern fought with churchhill cabinet? They almost brought CNC in-house over it, but in the end they made up (but it could have had serious effect on production).

We have a stratasys 3d printer at work that cost us $120k, and then there's a $15k maintenance fee. Would it be cheaper to just farm it out to local 3d printer services? Of course, but you wait in queue with everyone else. It speeds up development when you can literally throw in a job before you leave, and have parts waiting for you the next morning.

Anyone else find it interesting that out of all the conjecture and jumping to conclusions in this thread, Robert decided to single out Ben for a pretty inane comment? Something about a seemingly simple comment from Ben cut pretty deep. Threatening to sue anyone and everyone is a pretty Andrew Heighway-esque move, and it isn't a good look for the spokesman and face of the business.

Ben didn't ramble about JPop.
Ben basically said: "Better get your money back now, instead of promises of 2 machines in the future!"
So, now it's not rambling... it's business!

I read it as a joke.

edit: I have been warned that due to the litigious nature of some people with lots of money, that it is not worth the comment.

Count me in for the long haul as well. I'm hopeful to visit the plant sometime next year, take a tour and sample their wares before picking two for myself. The key point here is Robert and DR didn't HAVE to do diddly-squat for us folks that were burned by Zidware but, they are. For that they've earned my patience. I have nothing to lose and possibly, much to gain... that's how I see it.

IMO Roberts posts tell me two things:

1. He doesn't think Pinside opinions are worth much so he feels free to say whatever he wants. and...
2. This is a sneak peak at how he is going to deal with customer "issues" after a sale has taken place.

Is that all it takes to shut you up?

Hilton, for future reference, I have lots of money and I'm very litigious in nature!

This has all the hall marks of another trainwreck. Why are pinball manufacturers (or wannabe manufacturers) so tone deaf when it comes to the public / potential customer's perception?

we both know you are a broke. nobody with money wears sandals with socks.

I've never worn sandals with socks. The last guy who claimed I did has been banned from Pinside as well as Replay FX.

You'll be hearing from my lawyer, and can expect the same fate!

As John hid behind nda's theres maybe still an nda active which forbids Ben to give comments / insights about John or DR ?
And this was a warning to remind Ben about it ?

Just my thought how I interpreted this comment

I love it in a way.

You see, we have Stern, the 'big company' getting flamed a lot and therefore they don't react on pinside anymore... they can't "win" the argument anyway.
This goes all the way to the other end, where we have Spooky and American Pinball, the 'small competitor'/ underdog, with Scott or Josh beeing incredible nice guys but therefore getting way less "shit" then Stern would get for some... things.
(Getting back to Ben, wondering why people seem to accept Oktoberfest's art package. - Many propably don't! They don't want to nay-say but that doesn't mean they're buying it because the art package looks so nice. )

And then you have Deeproot, the competitor who aims for big Player, getting shit from the getgo but shitting back full throttle!!!

For me personally I think that's kinda funny. But also hoping for an active dialogue, not holding back.

Did it have to be public ?

Many new posts and still a bunch of nothing.

In regards to the article - Until there is a full production line with equipment and workers assembling games I wouldn't hold my breath. Sounds like empty space concerning that if I read the article correctly. All the hyperbole and even with a big brick and mortar building and pinball scientists doesn't mean much unless you produce games.

In the show me camp. And time continues to march on...

Its definitely entertaining. I just find it incredible that this exact scenario for these upstart companies keeps playing out the same way over and over again.

It doesn't.

They didn't Show us anything to get us hooked.
They didn't even try to contact the community, wouldn't it have been for someone to notice JPop on their companies website.
They didn't Show us pretty artwork or a rad prototype to get preorders.
And of course they didn't take customers money (and said they'll only take it when they're 2 weeks from shipping).

So all I see is someone who want's basically to be left alone till all the preparations are done...

...while arguing with people around here about... basically their "intentions" (since nothing more was communicated and everything else, like their business modell or investors, or any speculation to whatsoever, is a Drama written by pinside itself).

I was referring more to their seemingly aggressive attitude and overall presence on social media. Better to just remain quiet and silence your critics with something awesome once it's ready.

The rest of that stuff you mentioned will follow in due time. It has to if they want to sell you anything. I have no idea if they're for real and I couldn't care less. I just like to see what's next and hopefully see some true "innovation ".

I'm with you there but it's really hard, at least here on pinside. Whatever you do: It's wrong!

They're agressive on social media?

Their "spokesman " comes across as a little too defensive and arrogant. It's not a flattering look and if I was a primary investor I'd be giving him the hook.
If he himself is one of the primary investors, then he needs to redirect some of that money hes dropping into this project and put it into a healthy dose of self awareness.

Justin Bieber - David Beckham
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Socks in Sandals!

Levi PoV

Levi PoV (resized).JPG

I cringe any time I hear people say "you've got to have faith" - some of the same people were saying the same for Heighway, Jpop, and Predator. It's pretty terrible advice.

I hope you're all made whole, and get awesome games though.

I'll wear socks and slides to go in and out of the house, but people who wear socks and flip flops have something wrong in the head. At the very least buy some tabi socks

Hilton PoS

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Gave you Kawhai Leonard, you won your first NBA title, We are like Santa clause!

I just lost any respect I had for you as a lawyer. Cmon man, you are REALLY reaching with this comment.

I consider you to not be a good lawyer.

This entire thread is nothing short of a dumpster fire

Where are the moderators on this one. Please end it.

I love this thread. The trash talking, the anticipation, the speculation, and everything in-between!

The amount of offshoot threads that will appear when (if??) deeproot game releases come to fruition promise to be as equally as entertaining.

It's as good as all the comments that appear anytime the president makes a tweet....

Why not just use your option to drain it instead of wasting the energy being indignant?

Oh there are reasons to do it... I should have been more clear in my writing... what I meant was more about a company trying to get off the ground. They should be focusing on what their unique assets are and the things that are difficult to source externally. Use the established vendors as aids to avoid having to ramp up many different capacities and skills.

I can agree the idea of speed in development is useful (hence my reference to rapid prototyping)... but there are so many of these out there and it’s something that is easy to “buy your way out of” if it comes down to it. Just seems like another example of boiling the ocean instead of laser focus and execution.

Do not shit where you play pinball. You might end up in Deepshit.. I mean Deeproot.

Missed deadline... lose consumer confidence

Legal threats... lose consumers entirely

Why are you trying to censor Pinside? You dont like it, dont effing click on the topic. People making judgments on what other people should read or listen to stink. Do you work for DR?

Also, DR seemed like they were building up some good will, only to have that vanish and more, with one comment. Well on the way to becoming a dumpster fire!

I just saw the same thing on another thread. Some guy cant take the negativity so he pleads with the moderator to close it down. He could have Just drained the damn thing already if it bothered his fragile sensibilities that much.

Because, he is victimized and MUST be heard. Simply taking matters into his own hands and draining/not clicking means people wont know he did it! Lives for likes and thumbsups!

Ha. Thats so true. Hes getting hes daily affirmation from Pinside. My favorite is the guys that have to tell us how outraged they are before they claim they're going to drain the thread. Those are the real heroes standing up and speaking out against negative threads wherever they may find them.
Someone should get these guys a Cape or a mask so they can look like the superheroes they are.

I can see it now. Finding some poor helpless woman overcome by the merciless negativity of a Pinside thread. Our hero then leaps into action.

Pinside superhero: "Is this negative thread bothering you mam"?

Helpless woman: "Yes!! This thread is on fire and even though I dont need to click on it I cant avoid it or look away from the cesspool of negativity".

Pinside superhero: "Not to worry, mam. I see this kind of garbage all the time on Pinside and its clearly killing our hobby. Any day now one of these negative threads is going to just completely shut down production at Stern and JJP simultaneously. I have no proof that this is true, but it feels good to say it will anyway".
"Allow me to make a post about my own outrage and disdain for this thread before I move it to the drain for you. Thatll teach those bastards to have an opinion different from ours".

Helpless woman: "Thanks, Pinside hero. I couldnt have continued going on Pinside looking at the countless other threads that aren't negative without your help".

Exactly. I’ve never reported anyone to a moderator ever. I say buckle up buttercup to those snowflakes.

Essence of a true man.
I mean, since you typed it here..bravo.

Racism and sexism should be reported, but that's about it. A good internet fight is great entertainment. I really miss the Todd Tuckey book deal thread. Better than a UFC title fight!

I guess I’m not a REAL pinball fan then...LOL! I’m just done with the whole situation. Good luck to you and all the other real pinball fans. Hope it all works out in the end and you get your two shiny new pinball machines.

Has anyone requested a refund and actually gotten one?

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor do I give legal advice to anyone, butt If I was a lawyer, I IMAGINE I MIGHT say a bird in the hand is worth 2 jpops in the bush.

Notice how I qualified the statement with the words imagine and might? Take some notes Hilton.

Congratulations !!!

You have reached the 4000th Post in this thread !!