(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Menifee, CA
Quoted from PinMonk:Because the CEO can't shut up about what he hasn't done.
Eventually all the talk and hype and putdowns of inferior existing tech and the companies that sell it are just that...talk. He's missed all his own deadlines, so a "quiet mode" is in order until he has something to SHOW.
And the pinside keyboard warriors telling that guy how to do his business isn't just talk? So what if they missed a deadline they imposed on themselves? They have not taken any preorders or any money. They owe us nothing. They talk big just like a lot of people here talk big. Why waste the energy getting all worked up? You plan on running off their reps from pinside just like all the rest? Would you feel better to hear nothing until a game is announced to the public? Pinside lives off this drama.
Quoted from jawjaw:And the pinside keyboard warriors telling that guy how to do his business isn't just talk? So what if they missed a deadline they imposed on themselves? They have not taken any preorders or any money. They owe us nothing. They talk big just like a lot of people here talk big. Why waste the energy getting all worked up? You plan on running off their reps from pinside just like all the rest? Would you feel better to hear nothing until a game is announced to the public? Pinside lives off this drama.
Pinside lives off of people talking about pinball and what's going on with pinball?
vhh9hP3 (resized).jpg
Düsseldorf
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Pinside lives off of people talking about pinball and what's going on with pinball?[quoted image]
Not much at the moment.
But I'd personally like the manufacturers ("to be" in this case) not to be driven off the site.
Is anyone other then Josh still posting here? 
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Is anyone other then Josh still posting here?
Ferret, Barry, Keith, Gerry, Charlie, maybe a few others I'm missing.
Of course they usually post when they have something to say that helps with their own games or company. Not ragging on other manufacturers or games.
LTG : )
Quoted from Matthew2000tx:I’m fairly new to pinball and I live about 3 miles away from DeepRoot here in San Antonio. I have to say as a San Antonioian I hope DeepRoot Pinball becomes a viable pinball company. I too have some concerns about the history of Jpop and their not meeting their deadline at the Texas Pinball Festival. The more sinister side of me is saying that DeepRoot pinball is just a way for an investment firm to show a loss on a pet project for tax reasons. Hire Jpop to claim more losses.
Anyways, I hope my sinister side is incorrect.
On the local pinball front here it has been nice to play with some of the top pinball players now employed by DR during league play and tournaments.
We see DeepRoot employees at the local pinball spots occasionally.
It’s nice that the top players are here in San Antonio even though I may never again have a chance of setting a high score on a machine! Lol.
As a new to pinball person my wife and I are hopefully bringing home our first machine once it’s shopped by a local tech.
We will then be in the market for our second machine of which we have already set aside some money for. I think it would be great if DeepRoot instead or in addition to being so innovative with new technologies would also be innovative on their prices and set the bar for new pin ownership within the reach of more people. Pinball is rising like a Phoenix again so why not offer a lower cost option to the market in addition to the innovative engineering.
Anyways that is my 2 cents for what it’s worth.
IMO: Winner, winner, chicken dinner. I genuinely hope I am wrong.
seems obvious they have taken a page out of a recent surprisingly successful political campaign:
- make it all about 'me'. Only I can do this.
- the other guys are losers.
- I can do it. Believe it.
making pinball great again. Get the hat.
Quoted from pin2d:This just posted on http://deeprootpinball.com
We know there is a lot of excitement around deeproot and its mysterious pinball project. We also know there is frustration in how long it has taken to see something, let alone experience the deeproot pinball difference. If all we wanted to do is compete with existing pinball manufacturers and churn out the outdated and uninspired pinball package as it exists in the market today, it would have been a much easier path and accomplished years ago. We chose a different path. The simultaneous development on hundreds of unique pinball innovations and tens of titles has taken much longer than anyone (has) wanted.The fringe benefit to developing innovative pinball machines is the forced creation of multiple divisions and groups across a wide variety of industries and fields. These would not normally be found in a singular relatively small company. Which is why deeproot is unique and uniquely positioned to not only provide a different type of pinball experience, but also a cross-branded and diverse exploration of new concepts, ideas, stories, and experiences. This will keep deeproot Pinball tied to more popular entertainment choices and trends, and our Pinball creations relevant for decades to come.There have been endless amounts of speculation in forums or disseminated in the ‘pinball media’ regarding our pinball project, our finances, and even our separate and independent investment funds (that have very little to do with pinball). We’ve definitely had some good laughs along the way at the seemingly endless queue of ‘experts’. We will keep on doing what we do best along the following schedule:
June 28, 2019
By June 28th, we will provide Zidware claimants who i) filed and perfected a claim ii) within the prescribed time, and iii) signed/returned the Goodwill Agreements a choice between extending the delivery date or receiving monetary benefits as outlined in each’s agreement. All other claimants' claims or vendors' claims will thereinafter be rejected. That is the finale and extent of our self-imposed, voluntary goodwill to deal with the Zidware situation.
November 15-16, 2019
At a minimum, several RAZA prototypes will be available to play at the Houston Arcade Expo.
Fall 2019 - Summer 2020
Knowing exactly when we launch is a valuable trade secret that allows competitors an undesirable competitive advantage. At a minimum, the 5 days of deeproot will be scheduled and RAZA will be available for sale during this time period.We fully intend to make good on our 2018 Pinball Expo promises we regrettably did not accomplish in 2019. -- Robert J. Mueller, Principal
deeproot Pinball, 12621 Silicon Dr, San Antonio, TX 78249
(888) 316-2935
Ladies and gentlemen, we present to you pinball's latest tragi-comic episode, featuring everyone's favourite clown, John Popadiuk, with an all new ringmaster!
More titles launched and available to buy in 2019 than in the history of the pinball industry. More games manufactured than Stern, and potentially the rest of the industry combined, in the first year. Repeatedly hints that 4-5 titles will be available to buy at TPF 2019.
Fast forward 8 months. Nothing shown, let alone launched. Hoping to have RAZA on sale by Summer 2020. Talking about 'trade secrets' to avoid being pinned down on any date - despite repeatedly committing to them previously. Yet he's still talking about "tens of titles" ...
Most we've seen of actual games are a few grainy photos of those stupid high sided cabinets (are they really keeping those?) from someone in the community in San Antonio.
Not a good look.
Quoted from deeproot:Thank you for your assessment, but you missed most of the points I tried to emphasize in the Webinar. Zidware customers who file a claim and are approved will get advanced access to play all titles *before* they have to commit to anything, or pay in any more money. It is completely no risk.
I would say you did get something right. We are sure that once Zidware Claimants see what they will be getting, most will likely max out the top tier. That benefits them; and admittedly us as well. I guess 'Sizzle without the zizzle' was overlooked in my last interview. I thought it was clever at least. Hehe.
--Robert/dT
Hey deeproot - How's the rear view mirror on these claims now? Will zidware customers get that advanced access to play 'all titles' before they have to commit to anything? Because it sure sounds like a decision facing them now. Will they still have the cash out option in the future if they chose to accept your new timetable?
And did your projection of most claimants upgrade to 'max out the top tier'? I've only heard of people opting not to mess with the whole thing in general.. not double down.
Quoted from deeproot:You mean like a GB that won’t turn on half the time, the two brand new premium Batman 66’s I bought that are already more dimpled than the moon and with broken mechs already, a Hobbit that’s been dead for months, a Dialed In with constant sound and rebooting problems, and a TNA with so many problems that it has kept my eningeers from engineering on deeproot stuff? Playing and maintaining a deeproot game is pretty refreshing for me thus far...
— Robert dT
Bashing all the competitors - always a sure fire way to get people to pull for you. Classy too.
Hrmm... so in December 2018... deeproot boasts they are spending over 750k a month.. with costs to further ramp up. 6+ months later... they miss their major milestone date, and give another 6 month release window... that is 4+ months away.
That's 10-16 months of delay at their 750k++ number. So that's 7-12 MILLION dollars in sunk costs just from this slide. How much are people making per unit again?
Quoted from jawjaw:So what if they missed a deadline they imposed on themselves?
Deadlines. S. Plural. They missed more than one. If they can't make them, then shut up about them and just do the work, then tell us all about it when you have a product.
Quoted from deeproot:You mean like a GB that won’t turn on half the time, the two brand new premium Batman 66’s I bought that are already more dimpled than the moon and with broken mechs already, a Hobbit that’s been dead for months, a Dialed In with constant sound and rebooting problems, and a TNA with so many problems that it has kept my eningeers from engineering on deeproot stuff? Playing and maintaining a deeproot game is pretty refreshing for me thus far...
The implied criticism of others in your official statement was a pretty poor show, considering that you've missed the mark - namely due to constant and impossible hyperbole.
I won't question that you've had issues with those games, especially as many people have also had problems with them.
However, you seem to be saying that these are games you bought and which need service, directly stating that you're taking your engineers off company projects to work on them.
It's mind boggling to me that you would do that in the first place. All the more that you would admit it on a public forum, after having just announced massive delays; maybe not massive to launch, but certainly to the previously stated scale of launch.
What on earth must your investors think? Are they paying your staff to develop games, or to service your collection?
There's a nasty sense of deja vu about this ... hopefully it's just lashing out and unfounded exaggeration though.
Quoted from Bublehead:“come to our event, our event is so famous even the drunks crash our party”
That is Marketing 101.
That'll have the families rushing in!!
Quoted from chiefbrody:seems obvious they have taken a page out of a recent surprisingly successful political campaign:
- make it all about 'me'. Only I can do this.
- the other guys are losers.
- I can do it. Believe it.
making pinball great again. Get the hat.
My buddies dad does have that hat! Its epic and signed by a few designers..
All I can say is that i hope Deeproot puts its money where it mouth is.
I wish nothing but the best for Pinball and competitive pinball manufacturing.
Let us hope Deeproot give us everything that other pinball manufacturers have not... As stated!!!
Only time will tell!
Good luck Deeproot!!!
Quoted from Rondogg:Nobody is forcing YOU to read it.
The problem is that no one is forcing me not to read it.
Quoted from deeproot:You mean like a GB that won’t turn on half the time, the two brand new premium Batman 66’s I bought that are already more dimpled than the moon and with broken mechs already, a Hobbit that’s been dead for months, a Dialed In with constant sound and rebooting problems, and a TNA with so many problems that it has kept my eningeers from engineering on deeproot stuff? Playing and maintaining a deeproot game is pretty refreshing for me thus far...
— Robert dT
The truth hurts, Stern is turning out plastic garbage. The Playfields look like kinkos prints and Deadpool looked like Deadpeal from all the orange peel and dimples in the playfield. And spike will be the death of Stern as people want to be able to repaire their own machines, not dispose of them when they go bad
JJP is at least taking risks, so we can definitely use another quality Pin manufacturer in the mix, otherwise we’re gonna to end up with Sterns oversized Zizzles
Quoted from wolfemaaan:we can definitely use another quality Pin manufacturer in the mix
Do you think there will ever be one ?
LTG : )
Quoted from deeproot:Kaneda, you rock!
Y’all really better back of the cocksure attitude and communication.
You mention “doing what you do best” in your release. What is that exactly?
Good luck!
That Robert guy should go into politics. First making promises, then not keeping them, then making more of the same promises all while spending other peoples money. Like a real politician.
How stupid does he think the pinball community really is ? Just keep being friends with that lowlife jpop.
Quoted from deeproot:Kaneda, you rock!
Drunkenly interrupting a pinball tournament,throwing a drink in someone’s face and recently his BS preview of wonka claiming it being so innovative when it isn’t at all?
He seems more like a complete tool than someone who rocks.
On a positive note,I do look forward to playing whatever machines you build.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:The truth hurts, Stern is turning out plastic garbage. The Playfields look like kinkos prints and Deadpool looked like Deadpeal from all the orange peel and dimples in the playfield.
To be fair, the Deadpool Premium we have has one of the better playfields in recent Stern history. Fairly mild dimpling. No Batman'66-sized craters.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:I’d drink a beer with J-pop. Much more interesting conversation than this thread
You should look him up. I'd guess that if you're buying, he's drinking. Just leave your checkbook at home, despite outward appearances he evidently has a mesmeric power to talk people into terrible financial decisions.
Quoted from fosaisu:You should look him up. I'd guess that if you're buying, he's drinking. Just leave your checkbook at home, despite outward appearances he evidently has a mesmeric power to talk people into terrible financial decisions.
Yeah, he’s gonna pay and wallet left at home
Quoted from Matthew2000tx:I’m fairly new to pinball and I live about 3 miles away from DeepRoot here in San Antonio. I have to say as a San Antonioian I hope DeepRoot Pinball becomes a viable pinball company. I too have some concerns about the history of Jpop and their not meeting their deadline at the Texas Pinball Festival. The more sinister side of me is saying that DeepRoot pinball is just a way for an investment firm to show a loss on a pet project for tax reasons. Hire Jpop to claim more losses.
Anyways, I hope my sinister side is incorrect.
On the local pinball front here it has been nice to play with some of the top pinball players now employed by DR during league play and tournaments.
We see DeepRoot employees at the local pinball spots occasionally.
It’s nice that the top players are here in San Antonio even though I may never again have a chance of setting a high score on a machine! Lol.
As a new to pinball person my wife and I are hopefully bringing home our first machine once it’s shopped by a local tech.
We will then be in the market for our second machine of which we have already set aside some money for. I think it would be great if DeepRoot instead or in addition to being so innovative with new technologies would also be innovative on their prices and set the bar for new pin ownership within the reach of more people. Pinball is rising like a Phoenix again so why not offer a lower cost option to the market in addition to the innovative engineering.
Anyways that is my 2 cents for what it’s worth.
Your positivity for Deeproot is extremely refreshing. Please remember to look after your hard earned dollars. No machine, no pay, and no deposit. There is some arrogance in Deeproot's statements which shows they could be difficult to deal with, especially in resolving issues and warranty claims. If you are going to buy a game from them, ensure that you do not part with your hard earned dollars until a working machine is in your possession. If by some miracle you do get a machine good luck in resolving any issues with it.
Pinball is an awesome hobby. We have met so many good people and look forward to meeting so many more. Machines cost a lot of money and that is why you see so much passion in forums. One thing I have learnt is to deal with people you trust. Maybe see what Deeproot come up with, let them trade for a few years to give you some buyer confidence, then consider a game from them. There is always plenty of genuine help on this forum if you get stuck.
Good Luck!
Quoted from wolfemaaan:I’d drink a beer with J-pop. Much more interesting conversation than this thread
Aren't you its most frequent poster?
Quoted from wolfemaaan:I’d drink a beer with J-pop. Much more interesting conversation than this thread
Quoted from rubberducks:Aren't you its most frequent poster?
b46d3d6e6490def3254d6c9d43443e67fcd94c30bda7bee2bfeac0ad76b93d81 (resized).jpgGuess I'm in the minority on Pinside. But I'm really excited about Deeproot. The bold claims and big ego stuff mean they are at least aiming high. I'd much rather have that, vs a new company trying to do the same as everyone else.
Can't wait to see Raza in the fall. That theme is super appealing to me.
I am all in for Deeproot as a provider of new pinball machines! With that being said as a small business owner I consider customer perception and service an extremely fragile area. I am a bit disappointed at some of the comments by Mr. Mueller but it is of course his company...his words... his image. As a representative of my company I would never disregard a competitors product or publicly state it as sub-par & inferior. Yes I do make a comparative statement between my product and a similar item by a major manufacture but my goal is to offer a better product with more features at a cheaper price. My customers can do all the shaming, arrogant statements & flaming comparisons about the competition all they want. I will simply produce a product in demand with the best customer service I can provide. Any company dealing in near millions of dollars should definitely use a public relations department when making statements such as Deeproot did above. Most large companies won't even post on social media platforms and if they do its statements or responses are generic as Walmart "Great Value" butter. CEO's should operate in the background and I think Robert should deploy an experienced PR department from this date forward. Even if its only 2 people at least they can discuss the issue before pressing the "send" button. Geez....
Quoted from deeproot:a TNA with so many problems that it has kept my eningeers from engineering on deeproot stuff?
I kind of agree with this. TNA's problem is that it's so much fun that I find myself playing it when I should be working too! 
Quoted from deeproot:Haha. Not stupid. If we don’t make Dec 31 and you have to pay up I’ll cover you Send me a bill.
— Robert dT
I wouldn't expect you to cover a bet I made so you will get no bill from me. Just put out a quality game that doesn't feel like a decision was made to make a "mono" target with two switches instead of four individual targets just to save $3 on BOM. Make something I might consider buying, or at least force other companies to bring their game back up to where I might consider buying from them again.
Quoted from Extraballz:I don’t care if Satan himself starts a pinball company. If the machines he makes are good quality, priced right and fun to play I will be in. The more quality competition in pinball the better the overall product will become.[quoted image]
I wouldn't knowingly buy from Satan.
Additionally I'd gladly pay some extra bucks for developing and gathering ressources under fair conditions.
(No rain forest wood in my cabinet please.)
People over react on here WAY to much (and i swear have too much free time) it does not matter what deeproot says if there games are good and available people WILL buy them. People in this thread is probably less then 3% of there future sales. This thread is just a bit of taunting fun for them.
Quoted from russdx:People over react on here WAY to much (and i swear have too much free time) it does not matter what deeproot says if there games are good and available people WILL buy them. People in this thread is probably less then 3% of there future sales. This thread is just a bit of taunting fun for them.
Yup exactly
Quoted from pinballaddicted:Your positivity for Deeproot is extremely refreshing. Please remember to look after your hard earned dollars. No machine, no pay, and no deposit. There is some arrogance in Deeproot's statements which shows they could be difficult to deal with, especially in resolving issues and warranty claims. If you are going to buy a game from them, ensure that you do not part with your hard earned dollars until a working machine is in your possession. If by some miracle you do get a machine good luck in resolving any issues with it.
Pinball is an awesome hobby. We have met so many good people and look forward to meeting so many more. Machines cost a lot of money and that is why you see so much passion in forums. One thing I have learnt is to deal with people you trust. Maybe see what Deeproot come up with, let them trade for a few years to give you some buyer confidence, then consider a game from them. There is always plenty of genuine help on this forum if you get stuck.
Good Luck!
Thanks for your insight the current machine we are buying is a early SS from a trusted local tech.
The second machine will most likely be used as well.
If by some miracle a New Pin was in the cards for us I would never pay a deposit in hopes of a pin. It would be a cash on delivery deal only. From what I read it doesn’t sound like they would even accept pre-orders. Plus I think the fact that the whole Jpop tie to DeepRoot would be a prediction that many people would be fearful of a repeat situation.
In general I am very hesitant to do anything like deposit or kickstarters.
My other hobbies are ham radio and board games. In ham radio manufacturers always tout new models at the biggest Ham convention in Dayton OH once a year in March. Some people get bitten by the fan fair and put a deposit down even though the radio hasn’t been approved for use in the United States by the FCC. It’s a risk for sure.
As for board games many launch using kickstarter campaign. If you want to see how miserably kick starter can fail google “glory to Rome” kickstarter and learn the story of how a kickstarter lead to a bankruptcy, foreclosure and a deportation.
I didn’t mean my original post to sound so skeptical of DeepRoot and I truly hope they knock it out of the park with their first pin(s) because ultimately having more pin manufacturers is a great move for pinball as a whole. Plus as mentioned in my first post one this tread I’m rooting for the home team and hoping DeepRoot doesn’t go deep into our pockets!
Quoted from Matthew2000tx:Thanks for your insight the current machine we are buying is a early SS from a trusted local tech.
The second machine will most likely be used as well.
If by some miracle a New Pin was in the cards for us I would never pay a deposit in hopes of a pin. It would be a cash on delivery deal only. From what I read it doesn’t sound like they would even accept pre-orders. Plus I think the fact that the whole Jpop tie to DeepRoot would be a prediction that many people would be fearful of a repeat situation.
In general I am very hesitant to do anything like deposit or kickstarters.
My other hobbies are ham radio and board games. In ham radio manufacturers always tout new models at the biggest Ham convention in Dayton OH once a year in March. Some people get bitten by the fan fair and put a deposit down even though the radio hasn’t been approved for use in the United States by the FCC. It’s a risk for sure.
As for board games many launch using kickstarter campaign. If you want to see how miserably kick starter can fail google “glory to Rome” kickstarter and learn the story of how a kickstarter lead to a bankruptcy, foreclosure and a deportation.
I didn’t mean my original post to sound so skeptical of DeepRoot and I truly hope they knock it out of the park with their first pin(s) because ultimately having more pin manufacturers is a great move for pinball as a whole. Plus as mentioned in my first post one this thread I’m “rooting” for the home team and hoping DeepRoot come out with a win that doesn’t go deep into our pockets!
Quoted from deeproot:Kaneda, you rock!
Get this man a high velocity vodka tonic
Quoted from Drewscruis:Thought something important was posted, just another fart in the wind.
This is Pinside, so I'm not sure why you would have though that?
Quoted from Rondogg:So tone deaf. You really need to be working with a PR firm. Seriously, the things that come out of your head should not be sent directly to an open forum without some kind of 3rd party filter. You may think it's funny or maybe you're trolling but it really doesn't come off well when the head of a company (who wants our money) posts things like this. Could you imagine the negative repercussions if Amazon hired Bernie Madoff as CFO and then referred to him as "Berniebaby" while addressing the public?
You really need to reign it in. I was growing ambivalent about the JPop situation in light of what you were offering to his victims. Not any more.
I think this is a good starting point for just how much hubris exists with DR. I've watched this thing unfold since the beginning and I think it's quite clear they (read: Robert) really do think that the pinball community isn't their market. It's everyone else. So, following that line of thinking, it doesn't matter in their mind that they continually speak down to - competitors, loyal pinball customers, and the community as a whole - because it doesn't matter if they piss off those constituencies as it's not the market.
I'll just be sitting here, eating my popcorn, playing my shitty terrible collection of games that spans 40 years, and eagerly awaiting for DR to blow open the pinball market to EVERYONE except those of us who've been involved for a long time.
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