(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
-
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
-
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
-
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
-
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Topic Gallery
Düsseldorf
Pinside bitching 24/7 about missing toys, dimpling playfields, node board failures etc. ...
Competition mentions adressing that:
HOW DARE YOU!!!
For me:
As long as Jeff seems happy what he was shown I'm looking forward whats coming out of this.
I don't need to mary neither Robert or Jpop... Whom calling 'Jpoop' for the 666st time is really tiresome to read and btw. childish.
New York, NY
So a problematic TNA is responsible for the "promise big, delay big" routine reminiscent of every other failed pinball start up?
Believe me, I hear that. I once had a janky lawnmower that kept me from filing my taxes on time.
I gotta say I was skeptical until he said those magic words, "dimpled like the moon." Are we finally gonna see some dimple-free pinball machines?
BRING. IT. ON!!!
I was another lurker really hoping for this company with my wallet ready. Once you start insulting JJP, a company that has taken huge risks and rigorously pursued innovation, I start to walk away.
I think this guy honestly believes (like others) that pinside is just a negative pinball swamp. For the most part, it isn't. It is merely a critical group of people that spend a lot of money on toys. Check out the car forums: same thing. Insulting the people here WILL equate to a loss of sales. I think we all know that supply is growing faster than consumption in the pinball market, so every single sale counts, and a single sale can equate to a lot of word-of-mouth if the product is good.
There is so much choice out there that each of us can easily say, "I won't buy from these guys." My new outlook on DR is that this guy deserves to fail. I'll buy from JJP, that drab company that can't seem to get its act together with Lawlor and friends...
I was rooting for deeproot until he decided to insult every other manufacturer, and I love the pins many of them make. We all own pins from these manufacturers. So to insult those pins and manufacturers also is an insult to us, your potential customers. There is room for more pins to love, but to look down your nose at everyone else is off putting.
Quoted from Tranquilize:Once you start insulting JJP [...] I start to walk away.
I'll buy from JJP, that drab company that can't seem to get its act together with Lawlor and friends...
How does one walk away from himself?
Quoted from brucipher:Anyone who accepted the goodwill terms and doesn't take the money is silly (being nice *coughstupidcough*). Use the money to buy a different game now, play it for a year or more, then sell it to buy a deeproot machine.
Or not. 
Quoted from DS_Nadine:How does one walk away from himself?
I don't understand what your confusion is. I stated I'd walk away from Deeproot and buy from JJP... Pretty straightforward language.
Meh, I'm not offended or alienated by any of these statements. I think it's pretty funny that the CEO is shitposting here to be honest. Some people take pinball SERIOUSLY.
(As an aside, I've never pre-paid for an item that doesn't exist, so I've got no skin the pre-order game; which is really shitty)
Also, he never mentioned any problems with CGC, therefore I should probably be putting my money down on a MMr, AFMr, or a MBr (why I actually haven't yet, I'm not sure...)
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Pinside bitching 24/7 about missing toys, dimpling playfields, node board failures etc. ...
Competition mentions adressing that:
HOW DARE YOU!!!For me:
As long as Jeff seems happy what he was shown I'm looking forward whats coming out of this.
I don't need to mary neither Robert or Jpop... Whom calling 'Jpoop' for the 666st time is really tiresome to read and btw. childish.
Quoted from Tranquilize:I don't understand what your confusion is. I stated I'd walk away from Deeproot and buy from JJP... Pretty straightforward language.
I'm not confused.
You should just read what you actually wrote/ I quote.
Edit: *hint* Stop insulting JJP. *hint*
As they say in the movie business; show--don't tell.
Imagine if all on-screen special effects were simply scenes of Gilbert Gottfried describing what was happening.
Yeah, it might be mildly entertaining at first, but it gets old after a while.
Quoted from ForceFlow:As they say in the movie business; show--don't tell.
Imagine if all on-screen special effects were simply scenes of Gilbert Gottfried describing what was happening.
Yeah, it might be mildly entertaining at first, but it gets old after a while.
Well they were obliged to tell these days.
They told us what was obvious, since customers have 3 options but the game wouldn't be ready soon, so there's only 2 options left.
They gave additional Info, wich is nice, and get a lot of shit, as always.
So, nothing out of the ordinary.
Quoted from stevevt:I want to root for you, but you are making it difficult.
No kidding. Pinball is such a niche hobby, I'm sure many Deeproot employees have friends at the companies there CEO, Robert, is openly trashing. The same thing has occasionally happened with Stern. 99% of the people at Stern are awesome, but there are a few total asshats, who seem to thrive on mean spirited drama. I'm sure the same is true at the other companies. Robert, please don't be a part of that 1%.
I always find it peculiar when manufacturers shit on Pinside and pretend like it doesn't matter. Last I checked it has over 5000 daily users. Where else in the world is that concentration of pinball buyers?
Quoted from ForceFlow:Imagine if all on-screen special effects were simply scenes of Gilbert Gottfried describing what was happening.
I'd probably go to the movies a lot more.
I actually saw a Ramones Show in Boston back in 1985 or was it 86?... the mosh pit had literally torn the theater seats from the floor in the front of the stage... it was a fucking trip.
Now back to Deeproot...
P. T. Barnum. The inventor of shameless self promotion. Just go watch the Circus documentary and you will understand completely that Mr Meuller is obviously either a devout follower or has the same genetic DNA...
If you are writing about deeproot, you are doing exactly what he wants us to do, talk about deeproot. Good, bad, ugly, it doesn’t matter to him, piss you off? Why not, you will still want to look behind the tent flap at the side show and see the new shiny things if and when (and when is really the big IF) they show up.
I think it is all pretty much Marketing 101... the more they talk about you, good or bad, at least you are on their minds.
If I was him, I would come on here and stir the pot every time this thread goes dormant... or wait, isn’t that what he is doing?
Did you know that P T Barnum started his career by passing an old black woman off as George Washingtons 160 year old nursemaid, and made a fortune, but when interest started falling off, he purposefully wrote an article and had it printed in the papers that claimed he was a fraud... the interest in the scandle rekindled public interest and he made even more money as people came to see for themselves if she was real or a phony.
Quoted from deeproot:Playing and maintaining a deeproot game is pretty refreshing for me thus far...
— Robert dT
I sincerely apologize. I thought you were building pinball machines for operators and collectors to buy and play.
I didn't know you were doing all of this just for you.
LTG : )
Quoted from DS_Nadine:I'm not confused.
You should just read what you actually wrote/ I quote.
Edit: *hint* Stop insulting JJP. *hint*
Maybe this is a German/English thing? There's nothing wrong with my post, and your quote does not make sense.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:"At a minimum, several RAZA prototypes will be available to play at the Houston Arcade Expo."
Better get your room reserved now.
http://www.arcadecenter.com/
I mean, people went and got plane tickets and hotel rooms for TPF 2019 for the 5 days of Deep Root and game reveal... didnt pan out for them. Wouldn't jump on a room and trip for just this and assume it is happening. you know what happens when you assume. you become the (old) deep root logo
Quoted from Tranquilize:Maybe this is a German/English thing? There's nothing wrong with my post, and your quote does not make sense.
You say you walk away from people "insulting" JJP.
Next thing is you "insult" JJP as a company that doesn't get their act together.
I think that's funny (and a good representation of pinsiders double standards while with that not meaning to offend you).
Quoted from DS_Nadine:So funny, yet so innovative.
Keep'em coming.
Stop cluttering up the threads with your babble.
he also says he doesnt take posts on here seriously but im pretty sure he said on here he blacklisted folks from the zidware claims for posts on pinside... that seems serious?
Quoted from InfiniteLives:he also says he doesnt take posts on here seriously but im pretty sure he said on here he blacklisted folks from the zidware claims for posts on pinside... that seems serious?
Guarantee you he reads this thread several times a day. His timing is always right on the money.
Quoted from deeproot:Don’t worry, but for the drama around Jpopalicious
How can you even joke about this jackass, lying sack of shit crook? 
Quoted from Bublehead:If you are writing about deeproot, you are doing exactly what he wants us to do, talk about deeproot. Good, bad, ugly, it doesn’t matter to him, piss you off? Why not, you will still want to look behind the tent flap at the side show and see the new shiny things if and when (and when is really the big IF) they show up.
I think it is all pretty much Marketing 101... the more they talk about you, good or bad, at least you are on their minds.
If I was him, I would come on here and stir the pot every time this thread goes dormant... or wait, isn’t that what he is doing?
What does that actually accomplish?
Last year at NYCPC, we had a drunk crash our event. It generated 5 pages of discussion here on Pinside. Exactly ZERO of that "buzz" helped us grow the event, grow our team, or sell any more tickets this year. It was worthless.
This year, we had no such "drama." We had exactly ZERO discussion about the event here, as nobody on Pinside gives a shit about that stuff.The event itself was a huge success, with twice as many people (and income I may add) than last year. Pinside buzz or lack thereof it here had nothing to do with it - but the growth came from everywhere but Pinside.
So stow the "he's a marketing genius" angle, it's total bullshit. He's doing himself no favors with this amateur hour act. This is not how pros behave. This is not how the CEO of any respectable company in any industry behaves. It's doing absolutely nothing to instill confidence in his fledgling company, and it's alienating potential customers. If the product they eventually put out matches the laughable quality of everything else they've shown us so far - from the top - their games will be garbage.
Any "buzz" he's winning here is absolutely worthless. Pinside buzz is the cheapest buzz in the world to buy, but also wafts away quickly like a fart in the wind as soon as something else comes along, or people just get tired of it by lunch time. There's literally nothing easier on pinside than generating thread views through outlandish or ridiculous behavior, but in the end it gets you nothing.
He can talk all he wants. The natives are getting restless, and this is starting to look like every other shitshow we've seen in pinball. Promise big, delay big, talk shit...we've seen it all before. Great if you have a podcast. Worthless if you are trying to launch a pinball company.
If you think this is "marketing 101" you went to one shitty business school.
Quoted from flynnibus:Stop cluttering up the threads with your babble.
Why quoting me while talking to yourself?
Noise and legit interest are not the same thing 
Pinball is small enough if you are making games... you don't really need to rely on drama to bubble your name to the top. A good product will get talked about enough on its own.
Quoted from flynnibus:Noise and legit interest are not the same thing
Pinball is small enough if you are making games... you don't really need to rely on drama to bubble your name to the top. A good product will get talked about enough on its own.
So sick of people quoting PT barnum.
Barnum was selling tickets to freak shows and circuses. He wasn't selling ridiculously expensive consumer products.
People just parrot this stuff without even thinking. "Duhhhh...it's marketing 101!!! He's getting you suckers to talk about him!!!"
Who gives a shit? Worthless. Especially when the tickets to this freak show are free (so far).
Why is everyone so worked up? The guy made some pretty bold claims that he couldn’t back up. Big deal. They haven’t taken any money and really nothing has changed in the pinball world except some people who got screwed by zidware now have a way to get a little money back. Sounds like a win to me.
Why not just sit back and wait for whatever Deeproot puts out?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:What does that actually accomplish?
Last year at NYCPC, we had a drunk crash our event. It generated 5 pages of discussion here on Pinside. Exactly ZERO of that "buzz" helped us grow the event, grow our team, or sell any more tickets this year. It was worthless.
This year, we had no such "drama." We had exactly ZERO discussion about the event here, as nobody on Pinside gives a shit about that stuff.The event itself was a huge success, with twice as many people (and income I may add) than last year. Buzz or lack thereof it here had nothing to do with it.
So stow the "he's a marketing genius" angle, it's total bullshit. He's doing himself no favors with this amateur hour act. This is not how pros behave. It's doing absolutely nothing to instill confidence in his fledgling company, and it's alienating potential customers.
Any "buzz" he's winning here is absolutely worthless. Pinside buzz is the cheapest buzz in the world to buy, but also wafts away quickly like a fart in the wind as soon as something else comes along, or people just get tired of it by lunch time. There's literally nothing easier on pinside than generating thread views, but in the end it gets you nothing.
He can talk all he wants. The natives are getting restless, and this is starting to look like every other shitshow we've seen in pinball. Promise big, delay big, talk shit...we've all seen it. Great if you have a podcast. Worthless if you are trying to launch a pinball company.
If you think this is "marketing 101" you went to one shitty business school.
I don't get what you're writing (seriously).
First you write last years "buzz" didn't help with ticket sales & stuff this year.
Next you write this years event was twice as big.
As for me I never heard of the tourney before incident and know what it was this year. (With no effect for you of course since I'm halfway around the globe of course.)
Quoted from DS_Nadine:I don't get what you're writing (seriously).
First you write last years "buzz" didn't help with ticket sales & stuff this year.
Next you write this years event was twice as big.
As for me I never heard of the tourney before incident and know what it was this year. (With no effect for you of course since I'm halfway around the globe of course.)
I'll concede it's not the clearest point
I'll just say there was five pages of discussion. Zero of the people in that thread bought an NYCPC ticket (trust me, I have the registration list) nor will they ever. The buzz provided nothing but a distraction.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:You say you walk away from people "insulting" JJP.
Next thing is you "insult" JJP as a company that doesn't get their act together.
I think that's funny (and a good representation of pinsiders double standards while with that not meaning to offend you).
Quoted from DS_Nadine:You say you walk away from people "insulting" JJP.
Next thing is you "insult" JJP as a company that doesn't get their act together.
I think that's funny (and a good representation of pinsiders double standards while with that not meaning to offend you).
He was being sarcastic, throwing deeproot’s words back at them. His statement was intended as supportive of JJP. He probably should have put quotation marks around the offending phrase.
Quoted from ZenTron:I hear the US Gov. is considering forcing captured “enemies of the state” to read this thread as an interrogation technique.
Nobody is forcing YOU to read it.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Why not just sit back and wait for whatever Deeproot puts out?
Because the CEO can't shut up about what he hasn't done.
Eventually all the talk and hype and putdowns of inferior existing tech and the companies that sell it are just that...talk. He's missed all his own deadlines, so a "quiet mode" is in order until he has something to SHOW.
Quoted from PinMonk:Because the CEO can't shut up about what he hasn't done.
Eventually all the talk and hype and putdowns of inferior existing tech and the companies that sell it are just that...talk. He's missed all his own deadlines, so a "quiet mode" is in order until he has something to SHOW.
I’m fairly new to pinball and I live about 3 miles away from DeepRoot here in San Antonio. I have to say as a San Antonioian I hope DeepRoot Pinball becomes a viable pinball company. I too have some concerns about the history of Jpop and their not meeting their deadline at the Texas Pinball Festival. The more sinister side of me is saying that DeepRoot pinball is just a way for an investment firm to show a loss on a pet project for tax reasons. Hire Jpop to claim more losses.
Anyways, I hope my sinister side is incorrect.
On the local pinball front here it has been nice to play with some of the top pinball players now employed by DR during league play and tournaments.
We see DeepRoot employees at the local pinball spots occasionally.
It’s nice that the top players are here in San Antonio even though I may never again have a chance of setting a high score on a machine! Lol.
As a new to pinball person my wife and I are hopefully bringing home our first machine once it’s shopped by a local tech.
We will then be in the market for our second machine of which we have already set aside some money for. I think it would be great if DeepRoot instead or in addition to being so innovative with new technologies would also be innovative on their prices and set the bar for new pin ownership within the reach of more people. Pinball is rising like a Phoenix again so why not offer a lower cost option to the market in addition to the innovative engineering.
Anyways that is my 2 cents for what it’s worth.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:He was being sarcastic, throwing deeproot’s words back at them. His statement was intended as supportive of JJP. He probably should have put quotation marks around the offending phrase.
Correct. The tone is pretty clear, and just look at my collection to see if I love Lawlor. Either way, all good. Love jjp, and now generally dislike deeproot.
Quoted from HighProtein:Who is their graphic designer!?
razzledazzle01 (resized).jpgQuoted from CrazyLevi:What does that actually accomplish?
You missed the point. Your event did not stage the drunk crashing the event, you did not purposefully use this event to promote it the next year, you didn’t do anything PT would have told you to do, and you wonder why no buzz was generated?
Take a marketing course Levi, because anyone will tell you, it doesnt matter what you are selling, high end goods or tickets to freak shows, talk is talk is your name on peoples lips.
PT would have taken out adds the next year saying “come to our event, our event is so famous even the drunks crash our party”
That is Marketing 101.
Quoted from Bublehead:You missed the point. Your event did not stage the drunk crashing the event, you did not purposefully use this event to promote it the next year, you didn’t do anything PT would have told you to do, and you wonder why no buzz was generated?
Take a marketing course Levi, because anyone will tell you, it doesnt matter what you are selling, high end goods or tickets to freak shows, talk is talk is your name on peoples lips.
PT would have taken out adds the next year saying “come to our event, our event is so famous even the drunks crash our party”
That is Marketing 101.
If making empty promises and announcing countless delays while insulting all of your competition and a large portion of your potential customers is "marketing 101," why don't I see the rest of corporate America pursuing this model? You'd think if it's indeed "101" you'd see this all the time.
Is Deep Root the only company who has figured this out and brilliant enough to take this path? Are they the only ones who bothered with 101 in business school, and were the rest so arrogant they skipped straight to 102?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Is Deep Root the only company who has figured this out and brilliant enough to take this path?
Well, they are going to revolutionize the pinball market, so maybe this is a start. 
Taking into account the bravado of Deeproot I would say we will see something really great or absolutely nothing. No middle ground IMO.
If the games are good, and well priced, and actually ship, nobody will give two shits about what anyone in this thread said.
If they games aren't good, or are too expensive, or they aren't shipping, nobody will give two shit about what anyone in this thread said.
Phil got up at Expo and offended everyone by trash talking, and if Lebowski wasn't a vaporware disaster from a dead company it would still be selling. Is it smart to come on Pinside and brag and trash talk? Not really. Will it make any difference in the end? I guess that one guy who likes the games a lot but is really mad you insulted JJP might not buy out of principle.
Quoted from Extraballz:Taking into account the bravado of Deeproot I would say we will see something really great or absolutely nothing. No middle ground IMO.
I see it differently. I expect they'll crank out some games, if not the "tens" we've been threatened with. But my expectations are dropping daily based upon the entire tenor of this organization and its leadership.
Middle ground is exactly what I expect. I don't think we'll get the spectacular failure nor the mind-blowing success that would make for the two most entertaining alternatives.
Think "Houdini."
Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
