Boerne, TX
Quoted from f3honda4me:Nice ad hominem
Is there something wrong with you? It's non stop and you have NOTHING to do with Deeproot.
(Topic ID: 203700)
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Quoted from iceman44:Is there something wrong with you? It's non stop and you have NOTHING to do with Deeproot.
Nonstop what? This is literally the first thing I’ve ever said negative about deeproot, and you attacked me personally for some reason. It’s like you mistook me for someone else.
Also, just because I didn’t get screwed by jpop, this means I’m not allowed to have an opinion about deeproot?
Quoted from f3honda4me:Nonstop what? This is literally the first thing I’ve ever said bad about deeproot, and you attacked me personally for some reason.
Also, just because I didn’t get screwed by jpop, this means I’m not allowed to have an opinion about deeproot?
You post non stop in about every thread re JJP and Stern and waded over here. And you don't have the experience with DR or Jpop to post an educated opinion. That's my opinon.
Quoted from iceman44:You post non stop in about every thread re JJP and Stern and waded over here. And you don't have the experience with DR or Jpop to post an educated opinion. That's my opinon.
So you’re upset that I... post a lot on the forum? That’s what people do on forums. Post and discuss things with other people. I am also an editor here on pinside and make key posts when I see them so I read through a lot of threads even if I don’t post. I’ve been following the deeproot thread for a while. I like many manufacturers and post in many threads. Stern, JJP, CGC, spooky, AP, b/w, data east, other old pins, etc.
Quoted from f3honda4me:So you’re upset that I... post a lot of the forum? That’s what people do on forums. Post and discuss things with other people. I’ve been following the deeproot thread for a while. I like many manufacturers and post in many threads. Stern, JJP, CGC, spooky, AP, b/w, data east, other old pins, etc. I am also an editor here on pinside and make key posts when I see them so I read through a lot of threads even if I don’t post.
Ok great. 
You just have no clue re the history of Jpop and now DR. It shows in your snarky bs posts
"not sure if serious"? That dumb comment started the whole fiasco. You should go back and "edit" that.
Quoted from iceman44:Ok great.
You just have no clue re the history of Jpop and now DR. It shows in your snarky bs posts
I’ve read the entire history. It’s all over the place. Anyone can read all about it. 
Quoted from f3honda4me:I’ve read the entire history. It’s all over the place. Anyone can read all about it.
That's pathetic. We lived it for years.
Bermuda Triangle
Quoted from jorro:Hope its goonies
That would be freaking awesome. Goonies pinball.
I'll bet $100.00 to one person that we do not see a shipped game before September 2019, any takers?
Then $50.00 to one person that we so not see a working game shipped by December 2019.
Quoted from hank527:I'll bet $100.00 to one person that we do not see a shipped game before September 2019, any takers?
Then $50.00 to one person that we so not see a working game shipped by December 2019.
I’ll give $2 to one person to explain the $50 bet to me.
Quoted from PinRob:I’ll give $2 to one person to explain the $50 bet to me.
$50 that Deeproot does not ship games by December 2019.
Quoted from hank527:$50 that Deeproot does not ship games by December 2019.
Winner!
Quoted from hank527:$50 that Deeproot does not ship games by December 2019.
I think they will start shipping in October. So I won't take you up on the $100 but I'll bet you $50 that they will ship before December 2019.
Düsseldorf
Quoted from iceman44:Looks like DR is planning on "delivery" starting by June 30.
I just received the "Goodwill Agreement".
"By the delivery date, DR will offer at least three different titles....."
It looks like the standard pricing on these games is going to be $5k
Very nice!
And we will have the ability to tour the factory to play and select games.
I'd like tat to be true but how come your lover Chris did not yet make a podcast out of this? 
Quoted from DS_Nadine:I'd like tat to be true but how come your lover Chris did not yet make a podcast out of this?
"Delivery Date. deeproot Tech shall begin delivering pinball game machines (“hereinafter deeproot Games”) by June 30, 2019 (“Delivery Date”), or as may be amended by deeproot Tech to any earlier date. By the Delivery Date, deeproot Tech shall offer at least three different titles and shall identify all titles of deeproot Games that may be elected under this Agreement at least thirty (30) days in advance of the Delivery Date. deeproot Tech does not guarantee it will make any of the Subject Games. Should deeproot Tech elect to manufacture or sell any of the Subject Games, deeproot Tech has the sole and absolute right to alter the nature of the Subject Games (i.e. title, theme, structure, graphics, or layout) and the quantity produced of the Subject Games. The Delivery Date is the date deeproot Tech shall deliver the respective deeproot Game(s) to Customer (if in person) or to a third party shipper and is not necessarily the date on which a Customer shall receive the deeproot Game(s)."
Defaulting on the delivery date means the "Customer" shall receive a refund of the full deposit amount within 30 days of the Delivery Date deadline.
A. A game or games get delivered; OR
B. Deeproot pays the claim; OR
C. You can elect to carryforward your "deposit" if the deadline is missed
Either way it goes everybody that signed the deal is a winner. That's a good thing and a real thing if people can actually get made whole from the Jpop years.
Quoted from iceman44:Apparently John took deposits on a "Space Mission X" game that is part of the claim?
I’m pretty sure there was a point where John would promise anybody any game they wanted with any features they wanted within any time frame they wanted and he would accept a cash deposit for it.
Leeds
Quoted from iceman44:Apparently John took deposits on a "Space Mission X" game that is part of the claim?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I’m pretty sure there was a point where John would promise anybody any game they wanted with any features they wanted within any time frame they wanted and he would accept a cash deposit for it.
Space Mission X is/was a real game. There is/were at least 2 prototype games as far as i remember. How do i know this?
I was there when we came up with the concept and started working on them. I believe i actually came up with the name for the game to. John at this time was pretty open to sharing concepts and thoughts, brainstorming ideas etc. Myself and John both wanted to create a game that was at a different price point and style than the other games that were in development. We wanted to make something that was more of a throwback to the 80s games from williams and bally like 8 ball deluxe, fathom, firepower etc. This was in 2013 i think, and is what later became the modern street level game concept. His vision was always to make a long term company, not just a 1 off game, so yes there were other titles that were in development other than MG and were being worked on in unison. For me working on 3 games at once on hardware and software (in parts) was not easy, but something that had a lot of satisfaction. We also had started to get other people to work on code and hardware to, so this point in time was a positive one.
I was supposed to be sent a space mission x cab, (to house the mg prototype playfield, instead of the striker extreme stern cab i was using originally), which i'm still sad about not receiving, as the cab art was my favourite of the 3. All the cabs were a std shape and design.
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applejuice thanks for sharing!
Quoted from iceman44:A. A game or games get delivered; OR
B. Deeproot pays the claim; OR
C. You can elect to carryforward your "deposit" if the deadline is missed
Either way it goes everybody that signed the deal is a winner.
I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself with the "winner" comment. None of those things has even happened yet.
Quoted from SirScott:I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself with the "winner" comment. None of those things has even happened yet.
That's ok.
We know there is big $$ behind the DR effort.
It's hard to see how they spend all that money and generate nothing. I guess it could happen, but highly doubt it.
Thus, lots of "winners" coming
Quoted from iceman44:Regardless, a “credit” is worth 1000x more than some BS lawsuit
As long as your “credit” is good towards a commercial grade machine and not a Zizzle 
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Quoted from iceman44:It's hard to see how they spend all that money and generate nothing. I guess it could happen, but highly doubt it.
Why would you doubt it? They literally hired a designer who did just that, raised a ton of money and blew through it without generating anything. “This time it’s different.” The most expensive words in investing.
I think people spend too much time thinking and talking about Jpop.
And not enough time on the other people there. There’s a ton of real experience and talent in the game making department not named John.
I’ve been part of a sinking pinball ship ffs, nobody thinks I’m naive right?
I also got to work with David Thiel. Any game he’s involved in I’m at least curious. I don’t pry into his business, and he’s too professional to tell me anything he shouldn’t.
What’s Dennis Nordman up to? Are they giving him free reign? They’re making whitewoods, well Heighway never even gave him that. He and I had drinks and talked Alien, I know how he feels about how it went. AFAIK he’s still with Deep Root, right? He quit Heighway remember.
There are more names too, I don’t know them personally though. But I know they can do good work.
I’m willing to wait and see before pre judging. American Pinball and Spooky showed it’s not always a shit show.
If the games aren’t good I’m never shy to say so, but we haven’t seen anything.
They’re delayed. I see that as hopefully a positive. I know about pushing out too early. Waiting can be smart.
Who knows? Just feel like the Jpop thing gets all the oxygen. We’ve all said what we think before, we all know where people stand. I think suing him is stupid. If you lost your money just admit you gambled it away, and should have always been prepared to lose it. Move on.
If you get a game from them with some credit, I don’t understand it, but cool.
We’ll find out soon right?
Yeah I’m about to start a new positive Deeproot thread with zero J-pop crying allowed or get booted. Then this thread can’t be renamed “Bitter People Venting as The World Turns” and left for those that still continue to feel like “I need a hug Deeproot, J-pop destroyed my entire life” thread.
And good point above, this company has many other designers, developers, and people just trying to release new pins simply for our enjoyment. Can we just allow them to try and do this?
In the meanwhile, how about them great Deeproot Pinball machines coming out soon? 
Quoted from Aurich:I think people spend too much time thinking and talking about Jpop.
And not enough time on the other people there. There’s a ton of real experience and talent in the game making department not named John.
I get what you are saying and agree to some extent, but if an investment firm hired Bernie Madoff, that would overshadow anything else and be a lot of what people want to talk about.
Quoted from Aurich:I think suing him is stupid. If you lost your money just admit you gambled it away, and should have always been prepared to lose it.
Let me guess. You didn't lose a dime in the JPop fiasco?
Quoted from Aurich:I think people spend too much time thinking and talking about Jpop.
I also think people spend too much time thinking about fonts and the letter H
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:I also think people spend too much time thinking about fonts and the letter H
I spent 30 hours "thinking about fonts" for ACNC. I made a custom comic font and tested the kerning (spacing) of every letter pair so they wouldn't overlap on screen. I even tested "impossible" pairs like XX. Why? Because I knew the programmer WOULDN'T think about that.
When it comes to ignoring details "you snooze you loose"
Quoted from benheck:I spent 30 hours "thinking about fonts" for ACNC. I made a custom comic font and tested the kerning (spacing) of every letter pair so they wouldn't overlap on screen. I even tested "impossible" pairs like XX. Why? Because I knew the programmer WOULDN'T think about that.
When it comes to ignoring details "you snooze you loose"
I'm assuming you also did this within deadlines and budget.
That is where the wheels fall off for everyone else.
Quoted from benheck:spent 30 hours "thinking about fonts" for ACNC. I made a custom comic font and tested the kerning (spacing) of every letter pair so they wouldn't overlap on screen. I even tested "impossible" pairs like XX. Why? Because I knew the programmer WOULDN'T think about that.
When it comes to ignoring details "you snooze you loose"
Ben. I'm pretty sure he was referring to criticism of other people's or competitor's fonts and letters.
Who could ever forget Fontgate on Ghostbusters.
I chimed in because I think fonts ARE important. I thought the Willy Wonka logo looked weird at MGC but Aurich actually figured out why and I agree with his assessment.
Maybe deeproot will pay attention to details better than the other companies we will see.
If you don't think fonts are important it just means you shouldn't be put in charge of them, that's all. There's really nothing more to discuss on that, I don't care if you're not interested in them as long as it's not your job. For the people who are designing games I expect them to pay attention, absolutely.
If Deep Root games have shitty fonts we can talk about it. We haven't seen anything, so what relevance does it have now? Nothing.
Quoted from benheck:Maybe deeproot will pay attention to details better than the other companies we will see.
Details matter. When you're a craftsperson and good at your craft you take care of things that not everyone will be aware of. Not everyone has to pay attention to fonts. Not everyone has to understand how callout pools work, and how to randomize them properly. How to make sure the soundtrack ducks properly for that callout. David Thiel takes care of that for you. He cares about the minutiae and attends to it.
A ramp entrance being a millimeter or two wider or narrower, to the left or two the right, that matters. Can make the difference between a smooth shot and a clunky one, or turn a regular shot into something that feels really satisfying for some reason.
Details are what turn a good game into a great game. Sweat the little stuff and it adds up.
Quoted from Aurich:If you don't think fonts are important
pretty sure if I had to list items that make a pinball machine fun for me ...
correct use of fonts probably won't make the list
but that's just me and WTF do I know...
Quoted from lpeters82:It's probably something most don't notice, unless it's "off".
Yes like a doctor reading an xray, a dentist poking your teeth or a contractor looking at your walls.
Just because you don't notice something doesn't mean it's not wrong.
But hey it's art, easy fix.
Quoted from benheck:Yes like a doctor reading an xray, a dentist poking your teeth or a contractor looking at your walls.
Just because you don't notice something doesn't mean it's not wrong.
But hey it's art, easy fix.
In the end tho, the letter H hasn’t been changed and almost nobody cares. The gradient fill in game of thrones hasn’t cost a single sale of that title.
I think we all appreciate the efforts of the artisans involved in making our pinball machines what they are. But it’s undeniable that some things are more important than others.
And some complaints tend to seem a little more nit picky than others.
Ach!! 
For <insert your deity>'s sake. dR. Please put something out for us to talk sense and get excited over, otherwise I will spend all my saved-up cash on a Wonka.
Quoted from Richthofen:Why would you doubt it? They literally hired a designer who did just that, raised a ton of money and blew through it without generating anything. “This time it’s different.” The most expensive words in investing.
You aren’t able to see the difference between the two ventures?
Jpop didn’t have $20 million to blow
And like Aurich said it’s not just him doodling now
But we will see what happens.
Quoted from iceman44:You aren’t able to see the difference between the two ventures?
Jpop didn’t have $20 million to blow
And like Aurich said it’s not just him doodling now
But we will see what happens.
The nice thing about pessimism is constantly being proven right, or being pleasantly surprised.
As far as I'm concerned, deeproot doesn't matter until there is a game I can pay cash for and immediately load up in the car.
Quoted from TreyBo69:The nice thing about pessimism is constantly being proven right, or being pleasantly surprised.
As far as I'm concerned, deeproot doesn't matter until there is a game I can pay cash for and immediately load up in the car.
Maybe I will visit Deeproots headquarters dressed as a Fire Marshall and request I enter for a building inspection. When I get inside I will report back if there’s really any games being made.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The gradient fill in game of thrones hasn’t cost a single sale of that title.
ONE!!!
We'll because of the whole Playfield & Cabinet art also, but...
Quoted from TreyBo69:As far as I'm concerned, deeproot doesn't matter until there is a game I can pay cash for and immediately load up in the car.
Damn right, nobody should send them a dime now, and they haven't asked for any so that's good at least. I think the investors for this company are probably morons honestly. Or getting utterly snow jobbed. Or rich as shit and just love pinball, I dunno. It's a dumb way to invest money, clearly. The burn rate alone makes no sense to me. But I can't see the books and projections, so what the fuck do I know.
But there are a bunch of interesting people who might do some interesting things with all that cash, and I'm curious and not really interested in still talking about Jpop nonstop. Fuck Jpop. I think he should be booted from the industry and never work on a game again, hiring him is a joke.
But I'm not really petty enough to throw the baby out with the bath water, for the sake of the folks like Thiel and Nordman I'm interesting to see what happens. And if Deeproot for some unfathomable reason makes Zidware investors somewhat whole? Who could be mad at that, even if it makes no sense?
Quoted from Aurich:Damn right, nobody should send them a dime now, and they haven't asked for any so that's good at least. I think the investors for this company are probably morons honestly. Or getting utterly snow jobbed. Or rich as shit and just love pinball, I dunno. It's a dumb way to invest money, clearly. The burn rate alone makes no sense to me. But I can't see the books and projections, so what the fuck do I know.
But there are a bunch of interesting people who might do some interesting things with all that cash, and I'm curious and not really interested in still talking about Jpop nonstop. Fuck Jpop. I think he should be booted from the industry and never work on a game again, hiring him is a joke.
But I'm not really petty enough to throw the baby out with the bath water, for the sake of the folks like Thiel and Nordman I'm interesting to see what happens. And if Deeproot for some unfathomable reason makes Zidware investors somewhat whole? Who could be mad at that, even if it makes no sense?
Certainly. No one wants them to fail.
I sorta wonder if Deeproot would reduce costs by cutting out the distributors as middle men (various pros and cons to this). I don't see any other way they could possibly make games cheaper than a Stern Pro without sacrificing all the profitability. They got a big hole to dig out of and making $1,000 per machine will barely put a dent in it. Maybe they'll offer financing/leasing. Maybe they'll have a Software as a Service aspect. Hopefully they'll do a better job than everyone else at selling accessories and merch for the machines and their owners. Hell maybe they'll build them in Mexico (at least building in Texas is a lot cheaper than a Chicago suburb)
Quoted from TreyBo69:The nice thing about pessimism is constantly being proven right, or being pleasantly surprised.
As far as I'm concerned, deeproot doesn't matter until there is a game I can pay cash for and immediately load up in the car.
I get what you are saying, but for a lot of us deeproot matters now and gives a lot of people a chance to be made whole from the Jpop fiasco, a huge Goodwill gesture on their part....
And hopefully pinball gets a new company with some great new innovative pins!
btw, my apologies to f3honda4me for hammering you unnecessarily
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