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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#3151 4 years ago
 
DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

US Boerne, TX

13y 162K 26,902 28 49

Quoted from Mr68:

And you don't know the details nor any privileged information of those dealings. But here you are once again, making assumptions and acting like you know it all.

Actually, you and i had private discussions about those "dealings" a while back. So i do know what you told me AND it doesn't matter other than where we are at today. You got greedy and made the wrong choice and led others down that same path.

Life is too short, keep knocking out that lawsuit and i hope it makes you feel better about yourself.

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#3152 4 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,647

Quoted from Mr68:

To present them as an, either or choice is misleading, which you often do on Pinside.

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#3153 4 years ago
 
DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

US Boerne, TX

13y 162K 26,902 28 49

You are so full of shit!

Lighten up Francis

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#3154 4 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,106 2

e4f (resized).jpge4f (resized).jpg
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#3155 4 years ago
 
VIC

PinMonk

Pin Monk

9y 183K 30,216 16

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

[quoted image]

That dude sells a ton of hilariously wrong designs:
https://stevenrhodes.threadless.com/designs/

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#3156 4 years ago
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

Quoted from PinMonk:

It's just a slightly better than flash-looking animation. No pinball, no concept art, nothing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?amp;v=opAK-32MfJM
Comments are disabled on that video (wonder why??), so don't bother with the link if you're going for the comments

I agree that this video is merely a notch up from a flash video. I wouldn't put it on the level of JJP, but I'd put it over Stern which isn't saying much. It starts with a couple of seconds of mediocre 3D. The rest is 2D hand drawn art and so-so visual effects. Great VO and sound effects and music, but for me it lacks a consistent art style and direction. For example, the low detail cartoon spaceships don't fit with the gritty, flat, comic-book style art of the main characters.

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#3157 4 years ago
 
JAM

NPO

Pinside member

12y 133K 7,655 3 17

Quoted from wolfemaaan:

It’s going to be difficult for him to Top already what’s in the top 20, but hopefully he pulls it off

Yeah, it'll be amazing considering all he ever amounted to with his "Zidware" line was the equivalency of "arts and crafts" for 3 to 4 years.

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#3158 4 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,106 2

Quoted from Brijam:

I agree that this video is merely a notch up from a flash video. I wouldn't put it on the level of JJP, but I'd put it over Stern which isn't saying much. It starts with a couple of seconds of mediocre 3D. The rest is 2D hand drawn art and so-so visual effects. Great VO and sound effects and music, but for me it lacks a consistent art style and direction. For example, the low detail cartoon spaceships don't fit with the gritty, flat, comic-book style art of the main characters.

Where is benheck when you need him?

That is the second time I read this and last time from a Person that thought American Pinball has cohesive art packages.
That characters aren't 'flat' the colorization and shadows show depth, it's the animation that is flat. When they move their arms, that's the only time the Animation is a bit sub-par put I'd prefer a nicely drawn character over a lackluster 3D built.
You couldn't do this animations in 2D with the spaceships (wich are easyer to make in 3D then a human body anyway) so they're 3D animated.
I'd call that 'optimization'.

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#3159 4 years ago
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

There are a lot of things DR seems to be doing that look insane to me, but since I'm an outsider I'm going to trust that there are things they know that I don't.

All DR has done so far is make some outrageous claims and blow past deadlines, and let's face it, both of those are pretty common in the entertainment industry. Whether they release product in 2019 or 2025 doesn't matter to the pinball buying public. What matters is if the product is good or not.

The most encouraging sign to me is that they've mostly shut the hell up.

I wish them well.

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#3160 4 years ago
 
DON

Fulltilt

Pinside+ Pro!

US Nowhere Ridge, TN

12y 114K 6,759 8

Quoted from Brijam:

All DR has done so far is make some outrageous claims and blow past deadlines, and let's face it, both of those are pretty common in the entertainment industry.

No. Let me retort.

Robert called me on my cell to let me know I was going to receive two DR machines for the money I had sent to JPop for the RAZA that was never to be.

He didn’t have to make that offer. He sure as hell didn't have to take the time to call me and ask if I had any questions about the offer. I’m pretty damn glad he did. I’m wishing them well and feeling ok with what I’ve heard so far. It’s got more promise than JPops “art play time” that I endured.

Has ANYONE on Pinside sunk cash into Deeproot? No? So what’s the continued bitchin’ about?

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#3161 4 years ago
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

That is the second time I read this and last time from a Person that thought American Pinball has cohesive art packages.

I don't recall saying that AP had cohesive art packages. I think their LCD visual art and animation is their weakest hand. Pretty sure I've said so.

I'm in the video game industry, what do you do?

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

That characters aren't 'flat' the colorization and shadows show depth, it's the animation that is flat. When they move their arms, that's the only time the Animation is a bit sub-par put I'd prefer a nicely drawn character over a lackluster 3D built.

The characters are two dimensional, my friend. They are flat and have no depth. That's not an arguable point. That's why it is painful to watch the zombie arms and faces zoom at the screen with zero depth. It's why all of the facial and arm movements look mechanical. It makes it particularly painful because they open with 3D and then switch to 2D for the remainder.

But I'm shocked, simply shocked that you prefer nicely done art to shit art. That's astonishing!

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

You couldn't do this animations in 2D with the spaceships (wich are easyer to make in 3D then a human body anyway) so they're 3D animated.
I'd call that 'optimization'.

Of course they could do the incredibly simplistic 3D animations they did with 2D art. Have you never watched any anime?

Mixing 2D and 3D is a no-no. They saved money but it looks awful, and it should /never/ have been signed off on. Choose one.

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#3162 4 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,106 2

Quoted from Brijam:

I don't recall saying that AP had cohesive art packages. I think their LCD visual art and animation is their weakest hand. Pretty sure I've said so.
I'm in the video game industry, what do you do?

The characters are two dimensional, my friend. They are flat and have no depth. That's not an arguable point. That's why it is painful to watch the zombie arms and faces zoom at the screen with zero depth. It's why all of the facial and arm movements look mechanical. It makes it particularly painful because they open with 3D and then switch to 2D for the remainder.
But I'm shocked, simply shocked that you prefer nicely done art to shit art. That's astonishing!

Of course they could do the incredibly simplistic 3D animations they did with 2D art. Have you never watched any anime?
Mixing 2D and 3D is a no-no. They saved money but it looks awful, and it should /never/ have been signed off on. Choose one.

I din't say it was you referring to AP.
(It wasn't you, it was the last time someone said this video is not cohesive.)

You don't get what I mean with 3D.
I know and said the characters are 2D, but they're not flat shaded, so they have depth.

I know Anime. And they mix a lot of 2D and 3D.
Mostly Cars (Initial D), Mechs (Macross Zero, Frontier) or *drummroll* Spaceships, all kinds of inanimate objects while the rest is traditionally animated.

When you watch TV, EVERYTHING is 2D, so when well made, you wouldn't even notice any difference.
There's enough movies (and anime series) that try to keep their traditional look while beeing completely 3D rendered.

Whatever:
Of course it could be better and I don't like the villains arm motion but that's a video that Looks better then most that we get now and propably only plays in the "DMD" of the game one single time when you start the game (all the other times you skip it).

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#3163 4 years ago
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

Quoted from Fulltilt:

No. Let me retort.
Robert called me on my cell to let me know I was going to receive two DR machines for the money I had sent to JPop for the RAZA that was never to be.
He didn’t have to make that offer. He sure as hell didn't have to take the time to call me and ask if I had any questions about the offer. I’m pretty damn glad he did. I’m wishing them well and feeling ok with what I’ve heard so far. It’s got more promise than JPops “art play time” that I endured.
Has ANYONE on Pinside sunk cash into Deeproot? No? So what’s the continued bitchin’ about?

Dude, chill out. I'm not bitching. I really do want them to succeed. But I do think one reason we come here is to look out for one another, point out red flags that we see.

What I was saying is that to me, yes they've made a few mistakes -- overpromising mostly -- but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Re: Robert 'not having to call you on your cell,' I'm sure a lot of people would say that Robert didn't have to hire JPop, either. But he did. So DR doing what they did for former Zidware customers made business sense to avoid future liability, since they appear to be using JPop's IP from Zidware. Because of that, I'm not confident it was done purely out of a 'this is the right thing to do for humanity' kind of spirit. Since the founder is a lawyer, it seems more likely that he did what he believed he needed to do to protect the business and secure the IP from Zidware. As long as Zidware's former customers are okay with that, all fine and good.

Personally I really like several of the 90's era games JPop worked on and own a few. My opinion of those games won't change, just as my opinion of Trudeau games won't change. Yes, JPop has made some huge mistakes. But if he made a sincere and public apology that showed he really felt bad for failing, and was going to do everything he could to make things right, I'd feel a lot better about him continuing in the pinball industry.

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#3164 4 years ago
 
WRB

wrb1977

Pinside member

US Pittsburgh, PA

8y 70,800 947 10 7

Personally I really enjoyed the RAZA teaser...plus it has an excellent backstory. I know what I like when I see it and this I like...the animations look fantastic! I also could care less if any “unwritten” rules of 2D and 3D were broken like Brijam has suggested...that’s the beauty of artistic freedom. Sometimes when “rules” are broken unique, revolutionary, and amazing things can happen.

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#3165 4 years ago
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

I din't say it was you referring to AP.
You don't get what I mean with 3D.
I know and said the characters are 2D, but they're not flat shaded, so they have depth.
I know Anime. And they mix a lot of 2D and 3D.
Mostly Cars (Initial D), Mechs (Macross Zero, Frontier) or *drummroll* Spaceships, all kinds of inanimate objects while the rest is traditionally animated.
When you watch TV, EVERYTHING is 2D, so when well made, you wouldn't even notice any difference.
There's enough movies (and anime series) that try to keep their traditional look while beeing completely 3D rendered.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Again, what do you do for a living?

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#3166 4 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,106 2

Quoted from Brijam:

You don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Again, what do you do for a living?

I'm a professional Artist.

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#3167 4 years ago
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

I'm a professional Artist.

3D? Animation? Graphic design? ???

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#3168 4 years ago
 
DWF

Chalkey

Pinside+ Frequent

US Chesterfield, VA

6y 69,550 2,972 18

Sandwich.

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#3169 4 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,106 2

Quoted from Brijam:

3D? Animation? Graphic design? ???

Just tell me where I have no clue answering a "you don't mix 2D and 3D" Statement with all the times it's usually done.

You can colorize it FLAT (like a classic comic book with one color each plane) or imitate DEPTH with shadows, lights gradients.
So hard to understand?

You mix that in Videogames as well. In Halo 3 I think it was, when the camera shows the landscape from really far away and a ship crashes down the whole backdrop is a 2D Picture.

I draw Stuff people want me to. Like illustrations in books, comics, cover art... I try to continue retheming my Police Force when I have the time:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bonkers-toon-police-force-retheme

Edit:
And before someone say's I'm schizo - yes, I worked in automotive development/ consulting till the last recession, then I quit and became a freelance artist because I wanted to do a job I don't hate as much.

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#3170 4 years ago
 
WRB

wrb1977

Pinside member

US Pittsburgh, PA

8y 70,800 947 10 7

@brijam...I’m not an artist of any kind, although I can make a mean sandwich, and I disagree with you...see post #3164. Who care’s what anyone does for a living...just because you work in the video game industry does not necessarily make your arguments more or less valid than anyone else’s opinion.

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#3171 4 years ago
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

Quoted from Brijam:

3D? Animation? Graphic design? ???

NVM I looked you up. I wish you well with your comic books. Nur auf Deutsch, oder?

My point wasn't that you can make 2D art as good as 3D such that a non-artist couldn't tell the difference.

Specifically in the game industry, it looks like ass to mix 3D and 2D assets they way that DR did. People do it, it just looks like ass.

It's cheaper to do 3D spaceships the way they did, and it's cheaper to do the 2D art and animations they way they did, and it looks it.

Comic books, I have no idea.

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#3172 4 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,106 2

Quoted from Brijam:

NVM I looked you up. I wish you well with your comic books. Nur auf Deutsch, oder?
My point wasn't that you can make 2D art as good as 3D such that a non-artist couldn't tell the difference.
Specifically in the game industry, it looks like ass to mix 3D and 2D assets they way that DR did. People do it, it just looks like ass.
It's cheaper to do 3D spaceships the way they did, and it's cheaper to do the 2D art and animations they way they did, and it looks it.
Comic books, I have no idea.

That Comic book thing is just my private hobby (and mostly the thing you can find because I can freely put my name on it, not like the cover of a game where noone knows who made it) , sadly (at least in germany) you earn next to no money with that.
(And no, not only in german.)

Here's a new Statement:
"they way that DR did"

What they did is mixing up 3D and 2D Flash Animation. The Problem is not the look of the 2D characters that were used (if you would take a Picture of the gril next to a spaceship it would look just fine) it's when both stand next to each other animated that the gap widens. - I'm with you there.

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#3173 4 years ago
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

Quoted from wrb1977:

brijam...I’m not an artist of any kind, although I can make a mean sandwich, and I disagree with you...see post #3164. Who care’s what anyone does for a living...just because you work in the video game industry does not necessarily make your arguments more or less valid than anyone else’s opinion.

This statement is everything that's wrong with America right now. Of fucking course it makes a person's /arguments/ more valid if they're coming from someone in the industry. I don't know much about climate science but I trust climate scientists more than I do people who talk shit for a living. It's why I asked if DS_Nadine was an artist.

What it doesn't do is make my /opinion/ more or less important. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. You liked the video, great. So did I.

I like all kinds of things that aren't of the highest quality. But that doesn't make them the highest quality.

The video has some good production values, but there were corners cut, and some of them are glaring - to me at least. I was hoping for more.

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#3174 4 years ago
 
TGH

greenhornet

Pinside member

US Menifee, CA

6y 71,050 1,671

Quoted from Brijam:

But I do think one reason we come here is to look out for one another, point out red flags that we see... overpromising mostly

well, that depends on whose red flags you are talking about.

redflag01 (resized).jpgredflag01 (resized).jpg

Quoted from Brijam:

Of fucking course it makes a person's /arguments/ more valid if they're coming from someone in the industry.

Appeal to authority is a common type of fallacy, or an argument based on unsound logic. When writers or speakers use appeal to authority, they are claiming that something must be true because it is believed by someone who said to be an "authority" on the subject.

in addition, what if said industry stalwart is making statements intend to cover up/mislead. they could simply be telling you what you want to hear, without regard to truth/feasibility.

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#3175 4 years ago
 
WRB

wrb1977

Pinside member

US Pittsburgh, PA

8y 70,800 947 10 7

Quoted from Brijam:

This statement is everything that's wrong with America right now. Of fucking course it makes a person's /arguments/ more valid if they're coming from someone in the industry. I don't know much about climate science but I trust climate scientists more than I do people who talk shit for a living. It's why I asked if DS_Nadine was an artist.
What it doesn't do is make my /opinion/ more or less important. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. You liked the video, great. So did I.
I like all kinds of things that aren't of the highest quality. But that doesn't make them the highest quality.
The video has some good production values, but there were corners cut, and some of them are glaring - to me at least. I was hoping for more.

I agree with you for the most part. However...I said that just because someone is from an industry “does not necessarily” make their argument more valid. I’ve met people in my life that spent years in a particular industry that couldn’t find the backside of their ass with a mirror and a map regarding the industry they are in. It just seemed to me that you felt since you are in the video game industry that your arguments were more valid. It also seemed out of line to be asking what someone else does for a living as if to compare credentials thus validating your opinion over anothers.

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#3176 4 years ago
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

What they did is mixing up 3D and 2D Flash Animation. The Problem is not the look of the 2D characters that were used (if you would take a Picture of the gril next to a spaceship it would look just fine) it's when both stand next to each other animated that the gap widens. - I'm with you there.

Well I'm glad we agree about something.

I disagree that putting the spaceship next to the girl would look good even as a static picture. The palettes look to match, sure. But the lighting and level of detail are way off, that's just to start. That 3D ship will look like a cut and paste job next to the hand drawn art of the girl. Try it.

Back on topic I'm just disappointed. I heard Disney artists and I was hoping for more from them; either old school cel animation or full 3D. I've done work for Disney and I have a lot of respect for their product. On the other hand, Flash animation really sucks, and it sucks worse when you bolt 3D to it.

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#3177 4 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,106 2

Quoted from Brijam:

This statement is everything that's wrong with America right now. Of fucking course it makes a person's /arguments/ more valid if they're coming from someone in the industry. I don't know much about climate science but I trust climate scientists more than I do people who talk shit for a living. It's why I asked if DS_Nadine was an artist.

Nontheless is someone correct if someone is correct or wrong if he is wrong, no matter what his background is.

My argument should not become more valid in hindsight because of my background.

Basically we were only talking at (tiny) cross-purposes, but "You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Again, what do you do for a living? [I'm a Pro!]" is not at all helping realizing such things.

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#3178 4 years ago
 
WRB

wrb1977

Pinside member

US Pittsburgh, PA

8y 70,800 947 10 7

I’m glad we are back on topic...I got off topic myself...could this just be a rough draft of what’s to come? I don’t think deeproot promoted this...I believe a fellow Pinsider just stumbled across it?

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#3179 4 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,106 2

Quoted from Brijam:

I heard Disney artists and I was hoping for more from them; either old school cel animation or full 3D. I've done work for Disney and I have a lot of respect for their product. On the other hand, Flash animation really sucks, and it sucks worse when you bolt 3D to it.

I think they were only referring to Disney Infinity, the Video Game.

Quoted from Brijam:

I disagree that putting the spaceship next to the girl would look good even as a static picture.

You may.

Actually I admit I'd have to watch that again.

I'd try making a mockup but after that fake BTTF pic, I'm afraid Robert will sue me.

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#3180 4 years ago
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Nontheless is someone correct if someone is correct or wrong if he is wrong, no matter what his background is.
My argument should not become more valid in hindsight because of my background.
Basically we were only talking at (tiny) cross-purposes, but "You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Again, what do you do for a living? [I'm a Pro!]" is not at all helping realizing such things.

Come on. It's vastly more likely that someone with industry experience knows what they're talking about than someone who doesn't have industry experience. In any industry.

Sure, exceptions abound. YMMV. And yes, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Honestly, would you take someone's advice about clearcoating a playfield if they hadn't done it before? Even if they might be right?

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#3181 4 years ago
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

I think they were only referring to Disney Infinity, the Video Game.

Oh, I missed that.

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#3182 4 years ago
 
WRB

wrb1977

Pinside member

US Pittsburgh, PA

8y 70,800 947 10 7

Moving on...anyone else think it’s a rough draft?

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#3183 4 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,106 2

Quoted from Brijam:

Come on. It's vastly more likely that someone with industry experience knows what they're talking about than someone who doesn't have industry experience. In any industry.

Not denying that.

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#3184 4 years ago
 
RON

Rondogg

Pinside member

11y 109K 3,341

When you see the deeproot thread has 100+ new posts and think there must be some new news. Nope. Robert doesn't even have to chime in non sequiturs to keep this thread going...

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#3185 4 years ago
 
ABB

Aurich

Mods and Opinions

US Torrance, CA

11y 144K 23,395 3

Some people have been more impressed with the promo video than I was, but that's okay. I don't see any point in trying to dissect it, we don't even know what it is. It's an unlisted video that someone shared. Not a lot of context. Is the aspect ratio related to the game? No one knows, so it's meaningless. It could have been throw together over a weekend for a presentation for all we know.

I find it much more interesting to talk about why it excites people. If you liked it that doesn't mean you have shitty taste, it means you saw it and got excited, and that's cool. Forget the technical stuff, if you got an emotional rise out of it something was working.

I no longer really have the ambition to make my own game, but if I did, man, can you beat Pinside for free market research? It's a gold mine of opinions!

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#3186 4 years ago
 
WRB

wrb1977

Pinside member

US Pittsburgh, PA

8y 70,800 947 10 7

@aurich...very well said! After watching the vid it left me wanting to see more and learn more about the characters / story...that is huge for me. The sense of humor and art style also clicked with me.

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#3187 4 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,106 2

Quoted from Rondogg:

When you see the deeproot thread has 100+ new posts and think there must be some new news. Nope. Robert doesn't even have to chime in non sequiturs to keep this thread going...

I should get paid for this!

But actually there has been everything said... Multiple times so I take my leave until we get the next tiny snippet of info.

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#3188 4 years ago
 
WRB

wrb1977

Pinside member

US Pittsburgh, PA

8y 70,800 947 10 7

The part about an amusement park built next to a defunct power plant which happens to be built on a graveyard is classic imo and opens up the possibility of storylines based around those three locations as well as outer space. The video was short but had a lot of content.

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#3189 4 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,647

Quoted from Rondogg:

When you see the deeproot thread has 100+ new posts and think there must be some new news. Nope. Robert doesn't even have to chime in non sequiturs to keep this thread going...

Thank goodness there is no squabbling going on.

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#3190 4 years ago
 
JH

NoQuarters

Pinside+ Frequent

8y 128K 3,011 13 1

Quoted from Aurich:

...... can you beat Pinside for free market research? It's a gold mine of opinions!

At times it's more like a septic tank.

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#3191 4 years ago
 
MAC

frankmac

Pinside+ Frequent

9y 154K 5,104 4

73537744-A2BF-42EC-A190-2EC950AF407D (resized).jpeg73537744-A2BF-42EC-A190-2EC950AF407D (resized).jpeg
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#3192 4 years ago
 
BEN

noitbe1

Pinside member

FR Paris

11y 111K 1,937 4 11

3D8FBFED-6080-4481-BDB8-FA75F70F80B1 (resized).jpeg3D8FBFED-6080-4481-BDB8-FA75F70F80B1 (resized).jpeg
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#3193 4 years ago
 
TDK

thedarkknight77

Pinside member

12y 92,050 5,189 7 37

So is the deeper cabinet design by JPOP all about allowing for more “Stuff” to fit under the glass? I don’t mind it, but as others have mentioned, I hope it doesn’t effect our ability to transport games.

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#3194 4 years ago
 
MOO

Cheeks

Pinside+ Frequent

US Lockport, IL

11y 82,950 2,633 41 2

Quoted from frankmac:

[quoted image]

Things like this cardboard AIW, the actual Magic Girl, and in hind-sight 95% of what John showed on the super secret Zidware owner's group emphasizes how badly he needs oversight. I like his old 90s games (as much as some now suggest that doesn't make me a real player). But everything he's done without adult supervision is a hot mess. That AIW looks interesting, but doesn't look like it would shoot any more/better than MG. I'm hopeful that taking his batshit ideas and running them through a reality filter can create magic again.

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#3195 4 years ago
 
???

rubberducks

Inactive member

8y 76,150 3,031 1

I'm surprised how little discussion there is of how JPop absolutely screwed and took advantage of American Pinball.

The shenanigans didn't end with his Zidware operations.

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#3196 4 years ago
 
???

pinballwil

Inactive member

9y 63,050 1,370

Quoted from gstellenberg:

Correction... There's:
Lexy Lightspeed - Escape From Earth
Lexy Lightspeed - Secret Agent Showdown
Cosmic Cart Racing
Cannon Lagoon
Grand Slam Rally
Hoopin' It Up
ROCs
Barnyard
HeadsUp
I've heard very few people claim to not enjoy the innovations. On the contrary, the innovations and the industry-leading price per game are the things people seem to love the most. The biggest knocks on the P3 are the lack of popular theme and the need for better art design (which we hear and have taken big steps to improve).
Back on topic, DR is starting with one thing that we didn't start with... money. Good on them. They've leveraged that money to pull big teams of people together, and that seems to be a major reason why everybody's got so many expectations for their products. Whether or not they turn that into corporate success and fun playing pinball machines... we all wait to see.
- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com

Now your "system" is up and running go to the next level.
Buy yourself a big license.
AND SELL A SHIT LOAD OFF GAMES.
Or try to sell a few games next two years and rollover and die.

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#3197 4 years ago
 
DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

US Boerne, TX

13y 162K 26,902 28 49

Quoted from frankmac:

[quoted image]

Classic John.

Self proclaimed “hardest working man in pinball”

Paying himself with our $$$ to doodle all day

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#3198 4 years ago
 
LEV

CrazyLevi

Crazy Levi's Pinball

US New York, NY

10y 148K 33,556

Quoted from rubberducks:

I'm surprised how little discussion there is of how JPop absolutely screwed and took advantage of American Pinball.
The shenanigans didn't end with his Zidware operations.

Is this a joke?

You’d think bored rich guys trying to jump on the Pinball gravy train and milk some cash would be smart enough to do a “google search” as the kids call it before basing their entire launch on one dude?

People do a google search before buying a toaster much less throwing millions into making bad pinball games.

Zero sympathy. Probably why there’s been so little discussion, pretty open and shut case of idiocy.

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#3199 4 years ago
 
DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

US Boerne, TX

13y 162K 26,902 28 49

Anybody know TRC73 that likes to follow me and others around to downvote everything? Just joined

Nvm, he's done.

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#3200 4 years ago
 
DWF

Chalkey

Pinside+ Frequent

US Chesterfield, VA

6y 69,550 2,972 18

Quoted from iceman44:

Anybody know TRC73 that likes to follow me and others around to downvote everything? Just joined
Nvm, he's done.

I don't know but I like his style. You've been consistently thread shitting for about 5 pages. Maybe sit out from pinside a few days.

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