Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Is there any indication that Robert could be behind this? Clearly he had a very good relationship with this Chris because almost all other stories I have read about are that it was NOT nice doing business with Robert. Just asking as I have no idea but it seems odd to me that a software company would take on such an operation.
Quoted from sgtski1978:So this guy also bought all of those insurance policies as well?
This smells an awful like like a proxy company.
Quoted from Richthofen:Look, I'm almost sympathetic. I'm a software dev, too. But no offense, Chris, if 68 million ain't going to build these machines, there's no way you're going to, either. AND EVEN IF YOU COULD, why would we buy these lame, waste of time themes from bad designers?
[quoted image]
You don’t need 68 mil to build a pinball machine just a brain!! And some freaking common sense. Look at Ben & Spooky! Great example that passion, knowledge and common sense can build / manufacture games without millions in the bank.
Quoted from clempo:There are lots of companies he can ask that are not direct competition: FAST pinball, pinballlife, cointaker...
And I wouldn't be surprised if folks like Jerry, Charlie, Damian, and perhaps others would at least pick up the phone if he were to reach out for a chat as a guy with a barely-started startup who recognizes he doesn't know everything.
While I don't know if Robert has a history with Damian, he famously did with Spooky and Multimorphic. And it's safe to say that at the very least any convo with Turner would look nothing like that.
Quoted from richierich85:If I can get a full working RAZA without laying any money down until it's complete and there's a tonne of them built I'm in.... I'll watch this journey why not..
Oof, not me. They need to start from scratch if they truly want to separate themselves from Deeproot. They need to create their own identity on every level and RAZA ain't it.
That final version of the Deeproot RAZA we all saw looked like a mediocre player at best. I liked the artwork but that playfield layout was a major yawn. A rehashed Ferris Wheel was Deeproots idea of "Innovation".
I think the fact that only 100 people ordered it tells the tale.
Granted I don’t know Chris personally, but if his strengths are in programming and electrical engineering then he is approaching a market that has solutions.
Multimorphic with PROC and P3, FAST with their equivalent controller for old games and new custom games, CobraPin and the associated Open Pinball Project, etc. And programming frameworks like Pyroc, MPF, Skeleton Game, etc.
So what is he bringing to the table that’s worthwhile? Ideas for designs are a dime a dozen. He hasn’t built a one-of homebrew that could be massaged into a production game
Granted, he does have some people’s attention. That’s something. But he didn’t have anything ready when they were looking…
Don’t get me wrong. I love new projects and homebrews. I applaud anyone that wants to foolishly try to get into the industry. But I’ve seen nothing but vague talk
Call me in a few months when there is a game done. Then I might believe he’s serious and capable of…something.
Or make a homebrew. Making pins is fun. Doesn’t haven’t to be a business though. (And if you’re good at it, the industry hires you)
Granted, Chris isn’t a whale. But, he could at least represent a blowhole? Or a large dorsal fin?
This potential greatwhich / turnerroot marriage is at least something that needs to be explored.
It just makes too much sense.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Granted, Chris isn’t a whale. But, he could at least represent a blowhole? Or a large dorsal fin?
This potential greatwhich / turnerroot marriage is at least something that needs to be explored.
It just makes too much sense.
If we made a documentary on this: part one is JPop and Zidware, part two is deeproot, and TurnRoot is the DVD extras on the special double feature edition.
I didn't watch the whole video, but the phrase "my own money" doesn't strike me as particularly forthcoming for a guy who recently took advantage of a bankruptcy sale that netted him significantly discounted life policies, especially when there were defrauded investors looking to be made at least partially whole.
I know he doesn't really owe anyone anything, and I guess it's unlikely that he's profited on any of that at this point, but maybe read the room a little bit?
If anybody spends one more dollar on this they are a flippin loon. Somebody drive a stake through the heart of all this. Wake me when Robert goes to Prison.
Quoted from Palmer:Live look at iceman[quoted image]
FEEDC7C3-22D8-4B7A-89FF-BB0CC35A6C28.gifFFS.. a 14min video about a stupid puzzle?
And now someone is 'announcing' they basically aspire to build a pinball in his garage?
Spend more time on a business plan - Less time on puzzles/geeking
Otherwise this is the 3,437th person who thought they should make youtube videos about their journey getting into their new pinball hobby.
Quoted from flynnibus:FFS.. a 14min video about a stupid puzzle?
And now someone is 'announcing' they basically aspire to build a pinball in his garage?
Spend more time on a business plan - Less time on puzzles/geeking
Otherwise this is the 3,437th person who thought they should make youtube videos about their journey getting into their new pinball hobby.
True.
But he seems sincere.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:True.
But he seems sincere.
I'm sincere too. But I've been staring at my cut play field for 2 years, thinking of a layout, play field design and how to move forward.
Dreams are easy. Execution is hard.
And yes Levi, I know the sarcasm. I agree.
Things Deep Root did besides producing pinball machines:
-Dumb contest to expose Pinside hammer-proof naysayers for a t-shirt
-Flying people around the country to view non-working pinball machines
-planning tex-mex buffet
-interviews. Lots and lots and lots and lots of interviews.
-Producing lots and lots of trailers
-invented the PinPod
Things Turner Root is doing to launch new pinball company:
-dumb month long puzzle mystery contest
-17 minute long interview that doesn't reveal anything important
-RAZA backglass giveaway
-radiating sincerity
We are off to a great start!
Anybody remember when American Pinball just disappeared, hunkered down for a couple months, and announced and produced a pinball machine?
Quoted from benheck:Send a Looper back to 2011 and shoot me so this fucking game never exists.
Looper sent.
Sleep well, Ben.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Things Deep Root did besides producing pinball machines:
-Dumb contest to expose Pinside hammer-proof naysayers for a t-shirt
-Flying people around the country to view non-working pinball machines
-planning tex-mex buffet
-interviews. Lots and lots and lots and lots of interviews.
-Producing lots and lots of trailers
-invented the PinPod
Things Turner Root is doing to launch new pinball company:
-dumb month long puzzle mystery contest
-17 minute long interview that doesn't reveal anything important
-RAZA backglass giveaway
-radiating sincerity
We are off to a great start!
Anybody remember when American Pinball just disappeared, hunkered down for a couple months, and announced and produced a pinball machine?
Minor nitpick: they didn't invent the PinPod. They took an existing product and put a trademarked logo on it.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Things Deep Root did besides producing pinball machines:
-Dumb contest to expose Pinside hammer-proof naysayers for a t-shirt
-Flying people around the country to view non-working pinball machines
-planning tex-mex buffet
-interviews. Lots and lots and lots and lots of interviews.
-Producing lots and lots of trailers
-invented the PinPod
Things Turner Root is doing to launch new pinball company:
-dumb month long puzzle mystery contest
-17 minute long interview that doesn't reveal anything important
-RAZA backglass giveaway
-radiating sincerity
We are off to a great start!
Anybody remember when American Pinball just disappeared, hunkered down for a couple months, and announced and produced a pinball machine?
You are forgetting about the best part... The first March 4th (Bankrupcyish) court hearing done over the phone!
EXSUM Below, but highlights include:
147th "I plead the 5ths" by Mueller.
No accountants for any of his firms.
They used quickbooks for a $60,000,000 company
Someone talking over the judge to order a Burrito (microphone not on mute)
Lawyers at the end of the call asking to call each other to get more dirt on Mueller.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:EXSUM and highlights:
Note that due to the fact I am talking about things said by lawyers these are my recollections and interpretations as a non-lawyer listening in to only part of the conversation.
Next call 25 March at 1300 Central. Dial in number (888) 405-5981; Code: 2733682#
Some key takeaways from someone who was able to listen to about half of that.
There were over 85 people on the line when I dialed in and 65 at the end. During the break and after the call before disconnect there were tons of lawyers trying to ask questions.
I lost count at 147 plead the 5ths.
Most of the questions seemed to be about establishing what assetts Deeproot/Meuller had over time.
HE SAID THEY HAD NO ACCOUNTANT AT ANY OF HIS FIRMS!
He used a contract accountant when needed.
THEY USED QUICKBOOKS.
Not just at the pinball place, at the $60,000,000 investment firm.
ROBERT MUELLER SOLD SOME OF THESE INVESTMENTS DIRECT TO CLIENTS.
Did Deeproot pinball use any money from investors? Pled the 5th
Do you know how much money was collected... do you know where the money went 5th
Typical exchange:
Is there a book keeper? No
Who put stuff in quckbooks?
The book keeper,
Who was that?
Name (I'll leave out for obvious reasons)
How long did you use her services
What years?
2012 or 2013 through
I assume she was paid?
Yes
Was she paid as an employee or as a contractor
As a contractor
How ofter would she perform services?
It varied greatly from year to year
Would she reconcile the books monthly, quarterly?
I don't know
---------------
They spent alot of time going over a financial disclosure form he gave to investors in 2017. He pled the 5th on all questions about it to include what acronyms stood for.
He tried to get the hearing closed early due to childcare issues.
What should we be looking for to understand your financial situation? Pled 5th
How can we verify your salary of $192,000 here? 5th
SOMEONE ORDERED A BURRITO IN THE BACKGROUND!
Robert's documents implied investors were buying into Mueller's agriculture, retail, mining, and sports investment. Pled the 5th as to what they were.
He couldn't find the documents people were referencing (that he provided presumably) so he made everyone wait while emails were sent.
Where any of these individuals directly sold a part of a life insurance policy?
5th
Will we find any documents that will reflect a direct ownership in a policy?
5th
At the end there were people who wanted to ask question including several people that sounded ancient I presume were investors that were shushed.
Quote of the day goes to Treybo69 for: 5th amendment multiball!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Things Deep Root did besides producing pinball machines:
-Dumb contest to expose Pinside hammer-proof naysayers for a t-shirt
-Flying people around the country to view non-working pinball machines
-planning tex-mex buffet
-interviews. Lots and lots and lots and lots of interviews.
-Producing lots and lots of trailers
-invented the PinPod
Things Turner Root is doing to launch new pinball company:
-dumb month long puzzle mystery contest
-17 minute long interview that doesn't reveal anything important
-RAZA backglass giveaway
-radiating sincerity
We are off to a great start!
Anybody remember when American Pinball just disappeared, hunkered down for a couple months, and announced and produced a pinball machine?
May as well just call it Phoenix pinball
Another new filing, and this one is more interesting. A Mueller Special Counsel upgraded with PinBar.
Trustee wants to employ Jason McKinnie as special counsel to assist the estate with ongoing legal stuff related to the pinbar patent (https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2021133990).
If you recognize the name Jason McKinnie, it's likely from about a year ago in this thread regarding legal work he did for Robert / deeproot capital, including work related to this and other patent applications. The trustee wants to bring him on now (and quick) to do additional stuff related to this application before it expires.
The filing notes that McKinnie is also currently working for TuYo Holdings, which purchased the insurance policies. Further, it indicates that the trustee and Turner Logic are currently discussing the acquisition of deeproot pinball IP (as we know) and, if it goes through, the plan will be for TL to hire McKinnie's firm to do additional related lawyer stuff.
Turner Logic is prepared to front the costs of this special counsel, with the goal being to preserve the value of the asset (by doing the next steps in the patent process before the application expires).
My read is that this is a similar situation to what we saw with the stalking horse / insurance policy situation where Turner proactively puts forward money to prevent the devaluation of assets (as a result of lapsing/expiration) such that there remains something of value to potentially be acquired.
deeprootcapital-130-2022.07.26.pdf1) Pinbar was a dog.
2) Anything to do with patents here seems more to operate as a patent troll than anything.
Maybe McKinnie was the smart lawyer who said we don't need to waste all this money trying to build something if we just wanna patent troll
We've discussed the JPop and deeproot patents before. I think everyone agreed they're pretty worthless. But they can certainly try to squeeze the smaller companies that can't afford to invalidate a patent...
The deeproot pinball assets...really over valued. IP isn't the expensive part in pinball. The factory line is the company value.
Only way those assets become worthwhile is if they try to make a pinball video game. Then maybe having the CAD drawings, some animations, and some code could be turned into a profitable venture.
Quoted from Beechwood:Why would Turner want to resurrect DR projects? May as well bring back "New Coke" while he is at it.
The answer is money. Always.
Early this year I had tried to obtain a few of those “Pinbars” from the manufacturer after they were subtly solicited here on Pinside. I was assured that they were definitely available but the opportunity never materialized and my persistence eventually waned.
I always suspected an entity far larger than myself was able to muscle themselves into procuring the entire lot. Now that I see Turner Logic has been very busy behind the scenes practicing necromancy this whole time my suspicions have been realized.
I find this whole ordeal to be an eerie parallel to the original Deeproot saga where in light of some seemingly huge facts many choose to believe what is fed to them and assume this time things will be different…
Oh my god the fucking pinbar.
It’s back?!
From the pinbar to the pinpod to everything in between deep root had the stupidest goddamn gimmicks we’ve ever seen.
Welcome back bullshit deep root innovations, we missed you!
The more information that comes out on this Turner news, the more I believe Robert has his hand up Chris' ass and is guiding this process along as the puppeteer. It is only a matter of time until we see some kind of long winded announcement about getting the band back together.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Oh my god the fucking pinbar.
It’s back?!
From the pinbar to the pinpod to everything in between deep root had the stupidest goddamn gimmicks we’ve ever seen.
Welcome back bullshit deep root innovations, we missed you!
I freaking love pinball, but the sharp corners on that pinbar were inexcusable. I'd like to point you Williams Stellar Wars from 1979. It had sharp corners in the lockdown bar and was absolutely unplayable after 5 minutes for taller people who have to lean to play. Most painful crap ever. Williams learned their lesson and didn't make lockdown bars like this ever again... Somehow Deeproot forgot 40 year old lessons learned.
Stellar (resized).jpgQuoted from SantaEatsCheese:I freaking love pinball, but the sharp corners on that pinbar were inexcusable. I'd like to point you Williams Stellar Wars from 1979. It had sharp corners in the lockdown bar and was absolutely unplayable after 5 minutes for taller people who have to lean to play. Most painful crap ever. Williams learned their lesson and didn't make lockdown bars like this ever again... Somehow Deeproot forgot 40 year old lessons learned.
[quoted image]
Yes, I brought up stellar pain many times until the Germans got mad at me for picking on the Pinbar.
From conception to design to execution the pinbar was, is, and always will be stupid in every way.
I’m glad it’s back! Should make for another year or so of great material.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Yes, I brought up stellar pain many times until the Germans got mad at me for picking on the Pinbar.
From conception to design to execution the pinbar was, is, and always will be stupid in every way.
I’m glad it’s back! Should make for another year or so of great material.
Pretty nuts for real.
Quoted from JodyG:The more information that comes out on this Turner news, the more I believe Robert has his hand up Chris' ass and is guiding this process along as the puppeteer. It is only a matter of time until we see some kind of long winded announcement about getting the band back together.
Agreed and have said the same many times. When you look at how everything has played out there is not one single piece of evidence that says otherwise. Not one.
I think the degrees of separation will stay in place but this is all just way too convenient. All of it. Every last acquisition. The cherry picking. The huge sums of money. The lack of accountability.
There has to be more to this story…
When I woke up this morning, I never thought I’d be discussing the pinbar with people.
It’s like Christmas coming early!
Lol @ “I was muscled out of the pinbar stash deal by a silent player.”
This shit just rules so hard. Imagine the Gordon gekko like machinations performed by a shady character to land these pinbars, snatching the deal out from a lowly treasure-seeker.
Will there be a custody battle over the Pinpods? Please god say yes. Or at least give us some kind of cryptic puzzle that will eventually reveal the fate of the pinpods!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:When I woke up this morning, I never thought I’d be discussing the pinbar with people.
It’s like Christmas coming early!
Lol @ “I was muscled out of the pinbar stash deal by a silent player.”
This shit just rules so hard.
Will there be a custody battle over the Pinpods? Please god say yes. Or at least give us some kind of cryptic puzzle that will eventually reveal the fate of the pinpods!
I really wish I could get a Pin Pod. I think it would be a great attraction at pinball shows. Rent space so it shows up on vendor map so it shows up as "Deeproot Pinball" only to have the Pinpod there.
In another month it will have been one year since the SEC stuff first came to light. And here we are, still talking about the PinBar
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:I really wish I could get a Pin Pod. I think it would be a great attraction at pinball shows. Rent space so it shows up on vendor map so it shows up as "Deeproot Pinball" only to have the Pinpod there.
just buy one of those boxes (i forget what they are called but its here in the thread somewhere) and just make some deeproot stencils and spray paint it. Exactly the same thing as a pin pod
Quoted from Haymaker:just buy one of those boxes (i forget what they are called but its here in the thread somewhere) and just make some deeproot stencils and spray paint it. Exactly the same thing as a pin pod
Spray paint it "Pin Bod" with the outline of a fat dude on it... Pin Bod Pin Armor... wider than your door!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:When I woke up this morning, I never thought I’d be discussing the pinbar with people.
It’s like Christmas coming early!
Lol @ “I was muscled out of the pinbar stash deal by a silent player.”
This shit just rules so hard.
Will there be a custody battle over the Pinpods? Please god say yes. Or at least give us some kind of cryptic puzzle that will eventually reveal the fate of the pinpods!
Hey man I’m just saying how it went down. My plan was to turn it into a wall hanging display that ran thru all the classic RM quotes. That was my main interest and after months of being assured I would get them it was all just flash in the pan.
If you want to chalk it up as a conspiracy theory because it makes for good reading that is fine. But for me I think this is the logical conclusion.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Turner Logic are currently discussing the acquisition of deeproot pinball IP
tHis iS n0t dEEpRoOt 2.O
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/632?hl=pinlink and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Sydney
Chesterfield, VA
Toronto, ON
