(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

4 years ago


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  • Latest reply 12 hours ago by Ferret
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There are 31,854 posts in this topic. You are on page 604 of 638.
#30151 4 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Thanks for recording and posting this. Place is even more massive than I realized. Some white board and schematics frames that could be worth closer examination.
"Their one dock."

I was not there. My son, Levi, and my purchaser, Justin, went to pick up the parts. Levi shot the video right before they left. He did slow down when shooting the dry erase boards, so someone out there should be able to get some decent stills.
Justin took a bunch of photos that still need to uploaded. Hopefully one of us at PBL will get around to that tomorrow.

#30152 4 months ago
Quoted from pinballlife:

I was not there. My son, Levi, and my purchaser, Justin, went to pick up the parts. Levi shot the video right before they left. He did slow down when shooting the dry erase boards, so someone out there should be able to get some decent stills.
Justin took a bunch of photos that still need to uploaded. Hopefully one of us at PBL will get around to that tomorrow.

Got it. Well then thanks to you all.

I'll be able to help with shots of the dry erase boards if your stills don't turn out.

20
#30153 4 months ago

Between the top down map from the realtor and the walkthrough video footage, could someone please make a half life map so we can have some first person octo-deathmatches?

#30154 4 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Thanks for recording and posting this. Place is even more massive than I realized. Some white board and schematics frames that could be worth closer examination.
"Their one dock."

I have one of the white boards. Haven’t erased or needed it yet.

Thx again though Bobby.

#30155 4 months ago

I can’t wait till this is Robert.

18
#30156 4 months ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

I don't agree with that. A lot of us like to poke a bit of fun at John but he seems like a good guy in general and I think you're being WAY too hard on him.

You're 100% right. I'm sorry, I was way overboard with that comment.

#30157 4 months ago
Quoted from Stuieb84:

Looks like someone took Bobby Mueller's law degree lol

I don't think it's needed anymore.

#30158 4 months ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

I don't think it's needed anymore.

I believe Robert was able to retrieve personal items.

#30159 4 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I went over to the Pulman law offices last Wednesday afternoon to take a look at the policies they had up for auction.
Signed an NDA pertaining to the individual details of the policies.
What you see in the court filings is basically it. There were several boxes of “lapsed” insurance policies and then the remaining 8 policies that were still “in force” and listed in the court filing.
The guys at Pulman did a really good detailed summary of the remaining policies based on the knowledge they had from the files and the information provided by Bobby’s lawyer. They aren’t insurance experts.
If you think understanding a Life Insurance contract is simple then you probably have never taken a peek at your own
One of the main difficulties is that the bankruptcy trustee was still in the process of transferring the ownership of the policies over to the trustee. Only one had just come over.
What’s the problem with that? The insurance company isn’t able to provide what is called an “in force illustration” so that you can gauge where the policies actually stand from a “guaranteed” and “non guaranteed” standpoint.
Universal life policies are based on “current assumption” values to determine what is projected to be due in the future.
Without that info, a bidder is in the dark.
Thus, I was told by my own Insurance Group experts, “don’t consider bidding on those policies without an IN FORCE illustration, PERIOD”. And a “durable power of attorney” to get medical updates after the fact. How weird is that!!!
The end result? On top of the fact that buying insurance policies on someone else’s life seems wrong/weird on its face, there just wasn’t enough time allowed to determine whether to make a reasonable bid or not.
Should they have waited until they received ownership of the policies and gotten the “in force” illustrations before closing the sale?
I think so but hey it’s their process that was agreed to and initiated by TUYO.
Did they/do they have access to additional information? Who knows? Either way, without the illustrations IN FORCE, it was an absolute 100% NO GO for us based on advice from the experts.
What additional payments were made or not? All you had to go on was what his lawyer provided and the dated files
Maybe somebody came in with a late bid? Don’t know. I believe we were the only other prospect.
As for emailing the law firm or trustee, any challenge by April 11th I think would have to be made with a formal legal filing with the court.
At the end of the day, it could be a windfall OR they could be buying a pig in a poke. We know it has the Mueller stench on it so there you go.
If anyone is interested they will be selling the Promissory Note to the Car Wash as well.

So what does this all boil down to for the people that the policies were written for? i.e. Retired John and Jane Doe each have a $500K life insurance policy in their names via DeepRoot, does selling the policy to TuYo help John and Jane Doe out in the end? Or does TuYo just benefit when they pass?

Did RM buy policies in their name expecting the eventual payoff is what would fund the DR returns?

#30160 4 months ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

So what does this all boil down to for the people that the policies were written for? i.e. Retired John and Jane Doe each have a $500K life insurance policy in their names via DeepRoot, does selling the policy to TuYo help John and Jane Doe out in the end? Or does TuYo just benefit when they pass?
Did RM buy policies in their name expecting the eventual payoff is what would fund the DR returns?

Don't confuse these people with the fund investors. Retired John Doe got his money when he sold his policy. What happens to the policy after that is of no concern to him. They must have thought one buck in hand is better than two in the casket.

#30161 4 months ago

are these bankruptcy notices I keep getting in the mail in Australia from Texas about Deeproot anything other than toilet paper?

I am not meant to be reading every page to try to get 10 cents in the dollar out of my $2000 am I?

16
#30162 4 months ago

Oh my. I just download a nearly 300-page objection filed by some creditors to the deeproot sale. It has 13 separate exhibits. This should be interesting.

#30163 4 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Oh my. I just download a nearly 300-page objection filed by some creditors to the deeproot sale. It has 13 separate exhibits. This should be interesting.

What are they objecting to and what is their suggested recourse?

In 6 lines or less please!

#30164 4 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

What are they objecting to and what is their suggested recourse?
In 6 lines or less please!

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Oh my. I just download a nearly 300-page objection filed by some creditors to the deeproot sale. It has 13 separate exhibits. This should be interesting.

Link?

12
#30165 4 months ago

Just starting to read the objection (and only partway through). Appears to be about stopping the insurance sale process as laid out by the approved version of TuYo's stalking horse agreement on the basis that it's bullshit.

#30166 4 months ago

There's going to be lots of people's names and probably addresses, so won't be posting directly out of consideration for those folks (we'll need to delete out that content first).

#30167 4 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

TuYo's stalking horse agreement on the basis that it's bullshit.

Wooo!!

#30168 4 months ago

Looks like at least two main objections, both of them identified pretty extensively on this thread (but as extensively? We'll have to check the exhibits to see).

1. The trustee shouldn't be able to auction this stuff off since the debtor passed the money he took in from investors willy nilly about his various companies and utilized way too much of it (based on what the investment documents outlined) on stuff not aligned with the terms signed with investors. Who actually owns what to then be auctioned off to pay back certain creditors and not others is based off what deeproot asserts is the case. And using that as a basis is probably a bad idea.

2. TuYo didn't come sufficiently clean about its connections to the debtor and who knows what else and so we should pump the brakes on doing the sale in the way they want.

#30169 4 months ago

Getting near the bottom of the main objection document and, interestedly enough, most of the screenshots and highlights are from documents I just posted and highlighted yesterday.

#30170 4 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Just starting to read the objection (and only partway through). Appears to be about stopping the insurance sale process as laid out by the approved version of TuYo's stalking horse agreement on the basis that it's bullshit.

This is gonna be podcast gold one day

#30171 4 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Looks like at least two main objections, both of them identified pretty extensively on this thread (but as extensively? We'll have to check the exhibits to see).
1. The trustee shouldn't be able to auction this stuff off the debtor passed the money he took in from investors willy nilly about his various companies and utilized way too much of it (based on what the investment documents outlined). Who actually owns what to then be auctioned off to pay back certain creditors and not others is based off what deeproot asserts is the case, and using that as a basis is probably a bad idea.
2. TuYo didn't come clean about its connections to the debtor and who knows what else and so we should pump the brakes so doing the sale in the way they want.

These all sound like reasonable objections!

I wonder if these TuYo folks were also going around stealing playfields from the auction lot !

#30172 4 months ago

OK, here's the main objection doc.

I'm leaving in the first two pages which include the names of creditors who are objecting. This does not seem problematic as the privacy consideration with this thread has been to avoid the further publicizing of people's home addresses or other personal details (since anything I'm posting is already a record of the court, nothing I post is itself an initial disclosure). The objection has to be filed in the name of the party or parties that are doing the objecting.

Lots of good stuff in here for your perusal. I'm glad these folks brought forth to the court their concerns before the time ran out on their ability to do so.

94-modified-2022.04.05.pdf
36
#30173 4 months ago

Key post + milestone: Pinside has officially entered the chat.

94-13.pdf
#30174 4 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Key post + milestone: Pinside has officially entered the chat.
[quoted image]

Blueberry you're famous! And I got a huge kick out of the "Why don't we have both?" meme making an official appearance in the court docs

13
#30175 4 months ago

Can’t overstate how relieved I am that there are formal objections filed now.

#30176 4 months ago

All of the other exhibits are from pacer or information/documents previously posted to the thread (so I'm not going to repost 13 others unless people really want).

Kudos to the junior sewer forensic accountants, counselors, and other associated enthusiast documentarians who helped raise awareness of a variety of curious items of potential interest to parties trying their best to navigate this disaster without suffering further exploitation.

#30177 4 months ago

Please note that you can click on the documents to open the PDFs in this thread.

Items of note so far: Highlights from number seven.

Mueller and deeproot told investors that the 575 Fund would invest “the simple majority of our Fund Assets” in life insurance policies. Mueller and deeproot told investors that the 575 Fund would use “less than fifty percent (50%) of the asset portfolio” to make “capital acquisition[s]” in affiliated businesses, including the Relief Defendants. While Mueller and the other deeproot advisers raised more than $58 million from investors in the 575 Fund and the dGRD Fund, they commingled the money in deeproot and Policy Services bank accounts and spent approximately $10 million to purchase life insurance policies for the Funds. Notably, Defendants purchased no new insurance policies for the Funds after September 2017, despite raising approximately $43 million for the Funds after that time.

DEEPROOT DIDN'T USE ANY OF THE FUNDS RAISED AFTER 2017 FOR THE STATED PURCHSE OF BUYING NEW INSURANCE POLICIES:

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, seek competent legal advice.

#30178 4 months ago

Number 8:
Mueller and the Chapter 7 bankruptcy “Debtors” used the vast majority of the Funds’ assets – virtually all of which came from investors in the 575 Fund and the
dGRD Fund – like a piggy bank to fund Mueller’s deeproot-affiliated businesses, the Relief Defendants/Debtors. Indeed, Mueller funneled more than $30 million of the Funds’ assets to the Relief Defendants/Debtors in non-arms-length transactions whenever Mueller determined the Relief Defendant businesses had expenses that needed to be paid, and Mueller did so without any analysis as to whether such transfers constituted suitable investments for his client Funds. Further, Mueller made these transfers to Relief Defendants without obtaining anything of substance in return for the Funds and without memorializing the transactions in any way.

“LIKE A PIGGY BANK TO FUND MUELLER’S DEEPROOT-AFFILIATED BUSINESSESS... WITHOUT ANY ANALYSIS AS TO WHETHER SUCH TRANSFERS CONSTITUTED SUITABLE INVESTEMETNS FOR HIS CLIENT FUNDS”

Disclaimer: Not a lawyer.

#30179 4 months ago

Number 10:
PONZI LIKE APYMENTS
Number 11:
MUELER… AD HOC SALARY PAYMENTS TO HIMSELF WHENEVER POSSIBLE TOTALLING $1,600,000
IN ADDITION:
Mueller also used more than $1.5 million of the Funds’ assets to pay hundreds of personal expenses, including his daughter’s private school tuition, vacations with his family, his second wedding, his second divorce, his third wedding, jewelry for both his second and third wives (including engagement rings and wedding bands for both wives), other lifestyle spending for and by his family, and to buy a condominium in Kauai, Hawaii.
$3,000,000+ FOR MUELLER!!!

#30180 4 months ago

The deep root thread is truly a force for Justice.

Maybe we get a tv show out of it. Pretty sure the “to catch a predator” stuff all started out as a bunch of bored amateurs using the Internet to punish evildoers!

Mr Jpop, please take a seat over there.

#30181 4 months ago

FYI sataneatscheese, most of those factual background bullet points are based on and borrowed from the SEC's initial complaint. The new good stuff will begin with the content of the OBJECTIONS AND AUTHORITIES section.

10
#30182 4 months ago

omg, I need to make new memes that might show up in court documents!

11
#30184 4 months ago

Awesome jobs guys, exposing this very.... Suspicious sale.

My old job we had a snack box service. Didn't see that guy randomly dropping 1.2 million on things though.

#30185 4 months ago

Went a little highlight crazy, but then again I could have highlighted the entire thing.

Key takeaways: the objection is based almost entirely on publicly available information and is yet still very compelling. Imagine if these creditors had access to any of the behind the scenes documentation about what was really going on (and hopefully they eventually will).

It puts forth a number of red flags also waved by the sewer in a neatly organized and lawyerly way. One hopes the good judge considers them carefully and rules justly!

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#30186 4 months ago
Quoted from visualmagic:

are these bankruptcy notices I keep getting in the mail in Australia from Texas about Deeproot anything other than toilet paper?
I am not meant to be reading every page to try to get 10 cents in the dollar out of my $2000 am I?

Yes. This is how you get your money back.

Good Luck!

#30187 4 months ago
Quoted from JStoltz:

Can’t overstate how relieved I am that there are formal objections filed now.

That’s what it takes. A formal objection. Let’s see how all this plays out now.

Gonna be interesting.

I’ll see what Pulman says

What they request in the objection. “Can’t reasonably determine whether or not the sale amounts to fair market value”

As a potential bidder myself, without all the pertinent knowledge of what i laid out above I believe that is true. One less bidder here

10
#30188 4 months ago

That "pinside is a sewer" comment blobert made a couple of years ago. Lmao! at the irony of it all. it's going to be the pinside community that brings this whole mess crashing down on the guilty.

Shhh, You hear that? Thats the sound of karma bitches!

#30189 4 months ago

I feel like I’ve done my bit in this thread so maybe you can help me out here….

What is this current scam? One of RMule’s Crooked cronies is attempting to “buy” the debt owed to the victims? For some reason?

#30190 4 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Key post + milestone: Pinside has officially entered the chat.

I'm in there! Finally got my 15 seconds of legal fame, and I didn't even have to commit investment fraud.

#30191 4 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I feel like I’ve done my bit in this thread so maybe you can help me out here….
What is this current scam? One of RMule’s Crooked cronies is attempting to “buy” the debt owed to the victims? For some reason?

He's trying to rush through a bid on what little value is left for pennies on the dollar, while likely having insider knowledge on the actual value/status of the assets and not properly disclosing his prior-connection with the company.

13
#30192 4 months ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Retired John and Jane Doe each have a $500K life insurance policy in their names via DeepRoo

From what I remember, deeproot would give out a cash payment right at the purchase of said policy. Then deeproot would pay the premiums for the insurance policy until the person died. In exchange of cash & premiums, deeproot would become the beneficiary, and in theory the life insurance policy would pay deeproot. Sometimes they insurance company would not pay thought.

As far as why someone would want to buy/sell their insurance policy. Say the individual is in a hospital and can't afford treatment that would extend their life. Robert would give that individual 500k dollars cash to use as they pleased in exchange of naming deeproot as the beneficiary. Deeproot would then pay the premium to the insurance company. In short, the individual could spent a portion of their life insurance policy while they are alive and gain monthly income not going towards premiums.

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

It puts forth a number of red flags

Turner Logic had to be doing business with Robert since 2017. Robert even had office space for them in the Fountainhead Tower were deeproot Funds, LLC started deeproot tech. TurnerLogic was in charge of implementing the game rule, animations, and dreams on the machines. When the engineers weren't impressed with the web browser Turner Logic proposed to run the machines, Robert dismissed the demo/concerns and stated that he would make the final decision when the time came. Well, Turner Logic migrated office space to Silicon Drive building when deeproot pinball was "officially" started. Suspiciously, I didn't see Turner Logic hardware/equipment in the recent auction. Where they tipped off the building closure? Did they gain access to the building after deeproot sent all the employees home & didn't allowed them to retrieve their personal belongings. Why was Robert insistent that Turner Logic build all the software and only later gave in to using unity, with Turner Logic leading the charge?

#30193 4 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

He's trying to rush through a bid on what little value is left for pennies on the dollar, while likely having insider knowledge on the actual value/status of the assets and not properly disclosing his prior-connection with the company.

Plus we're taking on faith of Robert's good accounting / word regarding how little (or not) value remains. The creditor objectors—for whatever silly reason—think the remaining value should actually be assessed before it is sold off via an auction in which it would not be surprising for there to be but a single bidder (given the paucity of disclosure regarding the asset's key financials).

#30194 4 months ago
Quoted from theFeels:

Suspiciously, I didn't see Turner Logic hardware/equipment in the recent auction.

Not that suspicious - TL is a separate legal entity that's not undergoing bankruptcy or has any legal issues. They were (probably) renting office space from DR. It wouldn't make sense to sell off their stuff.

#30195 4 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I feel like I’ve done my bit in this thread so maybe you can help me out here….
What is this current scam? One of RMule’s Crooked cronies is attempting to “buy” the debt owed to the victims? For some reason?

I may have it oversimplified, but robert was buying up these insurance policies as investments and was required to keep up the payments. Turner came in making roberts website. That may indicate Turner has some intimate knowledge of the whole shebang. Roberts and his house of cards crumbles, then this Turner guy comes in guns blazing ready to buy policies for pennies on the dollar. After being a business associate of robert, sounds pretty sketchy.

#30196 4 months ago

Will RM see any time in the pokey after all of the SEC & Bankruptcy stuff is done?

#30197 4 months ago
Quoted from Inside:

Not that suspicious - TL is a separate legal entity that's not undergoing bankruptcy or has any legal issues. They were (probably) renting office space for DR. It wouldn't make sense to sell off their stuff.

True. Everyone should remember the auction was just for what was left in the building (it was initiated by the landlord who wanted their building back). So yeah, Turner would be free and clear to move out their own computers and such.

However, as a contractor for deeproot, TL would presumably not own any work, IP, hardware, or whatever else paid for by deeproot. So eventually the trustee will need to 1) figure out what all of that stuff is 2) where it is 3) how to get it, and 4) how to liquidate it (for the best return for the creditors, mind you).

#30198 4 months ago
Quoted from pudealee:

Will RM see any time in the pokey after all of the SEC & Bankruptcy stuff is done?

Some people say no. Some people say yes. My now very limited direct familiarity with the courts system is a byproduct of following these cases. So my opinion is worth very little and I may just be naive. But I feel like given Robert's current situation, if he is guilty of even a moderate amount of the shenanigans alleged then he will do time.

This is contingent of course on criminal charges being filed (which has still not yet happened).

#30199 4 months ago

Completely unfounded crackpot theory: these insurance policies are a horrible deal at the bid price, but Robert hoodwinked snack guy just like everyone else. Snack guy thinks this insider information is the deal of the century, but it would actually bankrupt him. Pinside "death saved" his ass.

#30200 4 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Some people say no. Some people say yes. My now very limited direct familiarity with the courts system is a byproduct of following these cases. So my opinion is worth very little and I may just be naive. But I feel like given Robert's current situation, if he is guilty of even a moderate amount of the shenanigans alleged then we will do time.
This is contingent of course on criminal charges being filed (which has still not yet happened).

"We will do time"

Mueller gonna put Pinside in jail.

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