Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from pinballguru:On my last visit to deeproot before the pandemic, Merlin's Arcade was "Shoot-able" with basic power to flippers, pop bumpers, and slingshots. It may resemble Eight Ball Deluxe, however the layout is really a fast playing flow design.
Was that one you were working on?
I would love to hear more about that.
Quoted from TreyBo69:It's hilarious how much is in original Marco packaging still. They'd really make a killing re-selling this stuff twice
Considering Marco made a 100% sales profit on the stuff they bought from PBR in the first place.
Quoted from mrgone:Was that one you were working on?
I would love to hear more about that.
Who ever acquires the IP may want to finish these games since so much work was already completed. If that's the case, then I would like to be a participant, so I must remain silent for now. I need to wait until we see the fate of deeproot pinball's IP.
Quoted from pinball_ric:Anyone in texas interested in some cabinets?
[quoted image]
Buyers remorse already?
Quoted from Inside:Buyers remorse already?
"You spent HOW MUCH on a bunch of foam core?" - somebody's wife, probably.
Quoted from Richthofen:Even if you write “and affiliated companies” that does not excuse or explain it away like it’s not fraud. Robert ran an investment firm with 70 million under management and HAD NO ACCOUNTANT. He either didn’t produce customer statements, or produced fraudulent ones if he did. Even if he told customers “and affiliates”, he has a fiduciary responsibility to his customers. He misrepresented the class of investment and knew it. The judge will know it too. The 575 fund raised millions, but buried in the other offerings was a securities raise for deeproot pinball which raised $0. So he knew that the investment market for a pinball companies securities was 0 and just decided to fraudulently use money from a fixed income stream like insurance policies and play pinball CEO with it. Any judge with half a brain will correctly identify this as fraud.
Did i say "it explains it away"? No. I've pointed it out many times that's how he did it and hid it. Looks like 100% total fraud and a ponzi scheme.
The investment advisors that put their clients into this Reg D "investment", over several years, better have their E&O paid up.
The facility itself was ridiculous and a total waste, then to see all the shit he actually bought with 575 fund money. It's unbelievable!
We will see how much blame ultimately the judge decides to throw the "accredited investors" and their advisors way. It should be zero but that's now how it works sometimes.
The SEC sees Reg D as important way to allocate capital, done correctly.
At the end of the day, most of these monies were transferred from investor bank accounts sitting idly into rent, payroll, equipment, Bobby's pockets, etc. Fraud shouldn't be part of the equation ever but it happens every day.
I've seen people get away with a lot of things, not only not go to jail or lose their license but keep right on rolling, almost as shocking as this one. Bobby probably not gonna escape this one, even though he thinks he will.
Quoted from iceman44:Did i say "it explains it away"? No. I've pointed it out many times that's how he did it and hid it.
Then what are we arguing about?
Quoted from benheck:"You spent HOW MUCH on a bunch of foam core?" - somebody's wife, probably.
No. I bought it for the other stuff. Have no use for the cabs really
I had a friend at the inspection and he was told by an employee of Mel Davis everything was sold on approval after the sale. Was anyone else told this?
Quoted from benheck:Is IP a separate sale?
I'm curious how "back engineerable" those RAZAs are...
Even if it’s C# and Unity, it’s pretty easy to decompile into a very readable intermediate language. Just a lot of work, not something someone would “do for free for the community” and would likely require hands on access. So if you are a hobbyist pinball person AND software developer who forked over $15,000 you could probably get it working. But it’s totally different IMHO than having the original developer like applejack did to revive magic girl.
Quoted from iceman44:How and where to get a look at the details on those 8 policies.
And I’ll be inquiring about the process leading up the sale with Tuyo orchestrating the whole thing
Filing a formal objection? If anything there should be more time for additional legit bidders to enter the process for the sake of the creditors getting best value
I’m starting to feel like a crazy person focusing on the Turner/DR relationship, but I do think it’s objectively suspicious and worth more attention than it seems to be getting. Very interested in anything you might learn about how they came to be involved.
I am no lawyer but I continue to think that it borders on “manipulation” to omit mention of the ‘deeproot investment portal’ in any of the purchaser disclosures.
I recognize that the bankruptcy trustee probably doesn’t care if the stalking horse bidder has insider information (being more interested in liquidating the assets), but I’d argue that further digging w.r.t. TurnerLogic seems like “due diligence” under these circumstances.
If the winning bidders want or need help figuring out who has what and what needs to come together to make some “working games” I’ll volunteer my time for free if it means shooting some Barry Oursler and Dennis Nordman designs!
Quoted from pinball_ric:Anyone in texas interested in some cabinets?
[quoted image]
If you have a raza back box translite poster and a playfield I'll love to purchase from you..
Quoted from richierich85:If anyone that won some stuff at deepsroots auction, if you have a spare RAZA playfield and a translite poster, and speaker panel I'll be more than happy to purchase it from you. PLEASE PM ME. THANKS
You and about 500 other pinsiders who post in this thread
The deeproot ride has come to a complete stop and we all have to get off, but everyone is charging the gift shop trying to get one last souvenir.
All I want is a chance to try salvaging any of those hot garbage designs and flip them to see how they were. Nordman and Oursler are too talented for those designs to just languish. Even if they exist as a prototype only, it would be pretty cool to try them out. I hope they end up in a pinball museum, kinda like the PHOF, preferably on the East Coast.
At this point one could really have a curated exhibit dedicated to the history pinball scams and show people how it happens and how no matter how many red flags you through, someone has money to burn! 
Or you could write a book about it. Either way you’ll be doing a lot of research. Shouldn’t be too difficult to keep it interesting.
As Blueberry reminded us, the auction was to clear space for the next tenant. Other deeproot items were absent from this. Should be $250k of jewelry and a $500k condo in HI. A lot of women are going to be pissed when they learn they have to return the only thing of value from their relationship with Robert. Freedom was won by at least 3 contestants. Probably another wife or two hiding in the shadows, as the deeproot saga lasted a good three years.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Or you could write a book about it. Either way you’ll be doing a lot of research. Shouldn’t be too difficult to keep it interesting.
As Blueberry reminded us, the auction was to clear space for the next tenant. Other deeproot items were absent from this. Should be $250k of jewelry and a $500k condo in HI. A lot of women are going to be pissed when they learn they have to return the only thing of value from their relationship with Robert. Freedom was won by at least 3 contestants. Probably another wife or two hiding in the shadows, as the deeproot saga lasted a good three years.
People don’t read.
e.g. this thread and the entire thing that enabled deeproot
Quoted from catwoman:In the auction excitement, don't forget there was a deeproot creditors meeting today. Here is what I heard:
1. One woman named Kim asked about 15 very in-depth questions about deeproot investments. It appears her parents invested and lost quite a bit of money. She made it clear that Robert got to know her family while convincing them to invest. Robert acknowledged that he does know them quite well and then took the 5th amendment to avoid self-incrimination to EVERY question.
2. One investor confronted Robert about his $466,000 and asked if Robert ever actually had that money when he said he did or was it gone immediately. That prompted a 5th amendment plead.
3. One investor asked how Robert sleeps at night, and another suggested Robert should "burn in hell." There were no responses to those statements.
Id love to hear more about this meeting. Thanks for posting.
How did so many of you guys gain access to time machines? Looking at the first few pages of this thread soo many people called it.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:How did so many of you guys gain access to time machines? Looking at the first few pages of this thread soo many people called it.
Agreed and I wish I had been one of them. I didn't really start catching on till about the half way mark. And even then I held out hope for the Zidware people, the ones I like and respect.
But with each Bobby strategic business move that I became aware of, I was more and more WTF. And judging by his measured comments throughout this 5 year thread, I think Frolic and I had a similar journey.
My being late to the party is why I find it irritating when I read someone with no comment history, bounce in here with a "How could you NOT have known" type attitude. That's a slap in the face to a lot of people here that got it right and put themselves out there.
Too many people for me to publicly recognize and I recently noticed some of you with gray hearts on your profile. I hope you don't mind but I will be donating to Pinside in your name and changing them to red. You guys deserve some recognition.
Quoted from Keroppi:Now that the dust has settled, let's everyone post what we have won, in the hopes of helping each other out with parts. I bought way more than I needed in the hopes of getting my 2 games as complete as I reasonably can...a couple of the metal lots went past my limits though.
I will be looking for a couple of the wide displays, and have probably *most* things to build up the cabinets, including a lot of purple metal that was probably for magic girl. I will have multiple raw cut whitewoods available, and I will also have random boards available, and will be selling LEDs a plenty to the homebrew peeps.
Also, if any winners or anyone in the area want the big office desk, it's yours...I bought that lot for the playfields.
Here is my haul:
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115180156/wooden-shelf-w--contents/
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115180168/2-shelves-w--contents/
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115180175/2-incomplete-pinball-machines/
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115284669/contents-of-pallet-rack--rack-not-included-/
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115537350/desks-and-shelves-w--contents/
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115537351/rolling-wooden-pinball-work-stations/
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115537361/rolling-cart-w--harness-conectors/
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115537378/2-pallets-of-pre-cut-pinball-boards/
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115537385/assorted-metal-pinball-cabinet-parts/
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115596109/assorted-metal-parts/
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115596116/4-pallets-pre-cut-plywood/[quoted image]
The is awesome. Well done on the auction wins. I would totally love to build a RAZA playfield for home-brew use to complete my zidware journey. 
I'll get in touch via PM to see what parts you have.
I hope we see other people listing group lots of parts for sale and or a way to know what bom parts are around for it. Looked like those racks had pretty much all Raza parts.
All other things aside, when Blobert missed his June 2019 deadline and offered Zidware victims "two games if they don't take the cash out" that's when I knew the business was screwed. Hence my post about "a bird in the hand" and Blobby's infamous reply and forum rage quit.
In his mind pinball was gonna make all that money back, so it wouldn't be fraud. Again, I'm saying IN HIS MIND. He's also too stupid to do the "napkin math" that we did, how it would take over a decade just to repay the "loan" to say nothing of any return.
Quoted from pinball_ric:Anyone in texas interested in some cabinets?
[quoted image]
Great purchases. I would have totally bought lot 320 if i lived in the USA. As i'm in the UK it was alittle tricky shipping wise with all the other large items like cabinets. I'd totally have a populated Raza playfield though if that was available I guess though that this part of it was one of the reasons to get it and that makes total sense. You got loads of nice populated playfields inc a magicgirl one to for homebrew/customising use.
Nobody is going to regret buying this lot.
Quoted from benheck:All other things aside, when Blobert missed his June 2019 deadline and offered Zidware victims "two games if they don't take the cash out" that's when I knew the business was screwed. Hence my post about "a bird in the hand" and Blobby's infamous reply and forum rage quit.
In his mind pinball was gonna make all that money back, so it wouldn't be fraud. Again, I'm saying IN HIS MIND. He's also too stupid to do the "napkin math" that we did, how it would take over a decade just to repay the "loan" to say nothing of any return.
If he wanted to make EZ money in pinball he could've just flipped Stern and JJP LEs...
Anyone can reach out to me if they want to try & get a game complete. Those that scored stuff from the auction, or buying stuff from them. This summer I start building classic Stern games here at the workshop. I will likely use another tech that is set up for spraying, & powder coating. The printing for playfields or backglass will be the printer I used for years. Never did plastic sets yet but that could be done also. Same with cabinet art a few printers. We have had a local metal shop do stainless side rails already. I will be doing custom wiring harness this year also.
The only show I will be going to this year is Pintastic. I will have a booth there to promote EZ Pinball cabinets for classic Stern builds or restorations (lots of bad ones out there). I will likely be the Atlantic Canada Distributor for those that want to save some money on shipping. So if you are at TPF you can verify with John at the EZ Pinball booth. I hope that they can presell a bunch before Pintastic Show. Customers can pick them up at the booth, & I will assemble them for free at the show. I will NOT be selling them at my booth, the skid of 5 will be coming home to Canada.
Quoted from HighProtein:If he wanted to make EZ money in pinball he could've just flipped Stern and JJP LEs...
Or put it all into Gamestop and AMC and made double the money back and never see the inside of a courtroom
Quoted from Mr68:Too many people for me to publicly recognize and I recently noticed some of you with gray hearts on your profile. I hope you don't mind but I will be donating to Pinside in your name and changing them to red. You guys deserve some recognition.
Just checking...... 
I won the water bottles for $280.
I was bidding on a few other things.
Can someone please tell me what the 2 raza pins went for? I had a max bid on those but wasn't able to watch the auction close live so i don't know what they sold for. I do know that I didn't win them! THANKS!
Quoted from d0n:I won the water bottles for $280.
I was bidding on a few other things.
Can someone please tell me what the 2 raza pins went for? I had a max bid on those but wasn't able to watch the auction close live so i don't know what they sold for. I do know that I didn't win them! THANKS!
~6k & ~16k
Quoted from ectobar:~6k & ~16k
thanks. I had a max bid of roughly half the final selling price on each pin. I truly thought my max of $8600 on the stainless game was decent. LOL nope!
You didn’t need a time machine to know this would be a disaster - the second Blobert said “pinball is easy” was all anyone needed to hear.
Also anything involving JPop is instantly toxic.
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:I missed it if already posted but who got the belovac vacuum former?
Not sure, but it finished at around $6k, IIRC. They are only $8500 new.
Quoted from d0n:I won the water bottles for $280.
I was bidding on a few other things.
Can someone please tell me what the 2 raza pins went for? I had a max bid on those but wasn't able to watch the auction close live so i don't know what they sold for. I do know that I didn't win them! THANKS!
What are your plans for the bottles? Would love to snag one of those
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:People don’t read.
e.g. this thread and the entire thing that enabled deeproot
I've read every post in this thread. Pathetic lol.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:What are your plans for the bottles? Would love to snag one of those
Same!
Quoted from RCA1:Then what are we arguing about?
Bobby missed the “shame” and “conscience” gene.
Quoted from JStoltz:I’m starting to feel like a crazy person focusing on the Turner/DR relationship, but I do think it’s objectively suspicious and worth more attention than it seems to be getting. Very interested in anything you might learn about how they came to be involved.
I am no lawyer but I continue to think that it borders on “manipulation” to omit mention of the ‘deeproot investment portal’ in any of the purchaser disclosures.
I recognize that the bankruptcy trustee probably doesn’t care if the stalking horse bidder has insider information (being more interested in liquidating the assets), but I’d argue that further digging w.r.t. TurnerLogic seems like “due diligence” under these circumstances.
What is the “Deeproot investment portal”?
I missed that. But yeah, I don’t get the Turner thing either.
How does he even know what buying LI policies are about and how much to even bid.
Somebody had to tell those guys these policies were gonna lapse if payments weren’t made soon.
Yost did the legal work, he’ll get reimbursed if they are outbid. Not a bad deal for him either.
I’m curious as to how many policies they let lapse. I would assume the trustee would have been highly motivated to get something moving
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:What are your plans for the bottles? Would love to snag one of those
I am probably going to sell some, raffle some to benefit "project pinball" and keep some. I'll list them up on pinside when I get possession of them. I need to get them shipped to Georgia.
Quoted from spfxted:Just checking......
Ted, you've made me laugh through the process but you're not donation worthy. Instead, I'll buy many Tequila drinks for us for being so lame.
Quoted from iceman44:What is the “Deeproot investment portal”?
I missed that. But yeah, I don’t get the Turner thing either.
How does he even know what buying LI policies are about and how much to even bid.
Here’s a copy paste from the email I sent Pulman (credit to @Inside)
The portfolio on TurnerLogic's website has been at some point modified to remove references to deeproot Funds. If you compare the current portfolio (Link #1) with the web archived version (Link #2) you can see that it did exist at one time and was removed. Again, just adds to the suspiciousness. It is possible that it was removed from the website to distance Turner from deeproot after the SEC case broke. I can understand removing it for PR reasons but would have expected to see it disclosed more directly by TuYo in the purchase agreements.
Current: https://turnerlogic.com/portfolio/
Archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20170609173707/http://turnerlogic.com/portfolio/
Quoted from JStoltz:Here’s a copy paste from the email I sent Pulman (credit to Inside)
The portfolio on TurnerLogic's website has been at some point modified to remove references to deeproot Funds. If you compare the current portfolio (Link #1) with the web archived version (Link #2) you can see that it did exist at one time and was removed. Again, just adds to the suspiciousness. It is possible that it was removed from the website to distance Turner from deeproot after the SEC case broke. I can understand removing it for PR reasons but would have expected to see it disclosed more directly by TuYo in the purchase agreements.
Current: https://turnerlogic.com/portfolio/
Archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20170609173707/http://turnerlogic.com/portfolio/
Robert is also quoted in an interview from years back that Turner Logic designed their financial systems.
Quoted from iceman44:Bobby missed the “shame” and “conscience” gene.
What is the “Deeproot investment portal”?
I missed that. But yeah, I don’t get the Turner thing either.
How does he even know what buying LI policies are about and how much to even bid.
Somebody had to tell those guys these policies were gonna lapse if payments weren’t made soon.
Yost did the legal work, he’ll get reimbursed if they are outbid. Not a bad deal for him either.
I’m curious as to how many policies they let lapse. I would assume the trustee would have been highly motivated to get something moving
That is the big head scratcher. First, it is a relatively small number of policies, which requires more detailed demographic info to price out. Second, you need to be or work with an actuary to assign value to the policies based on that data. (Either that or someone you trust (who has the aforementioned) tells you it is a good deal at a price of X.)
This is pretty esoteric stuff requiring specialized knowledge. It's not like someone wakes up says, 'hmm, I think I'll diversify my investments...maybe precious metals, or art, or real estate would be good...no, I know, I think I'll buy a small basket of life insurance policies'
Quoted from Richthofen:Even if it’s C# and Unity, it’s pretty easy to decompile into a very readable intermediate language. Just a lot of work, not something someone would “do for free for the community” and would likely require hands on access. So if you are a hobbyist pinball person AND software developer who forked over $15,000 you could probably get it working. But it’s totally different IMHO than having the original developer like applejack did to revive magic girl.
Agreed. Vs a PROC Skeleton game where it's like "Ah those are the Python files, which aren't compiled, so all the source is on the machine itself"
I *believe* I got most of the stuff to build the cabinets (I think all the wood and half the metal) and most of the playfields, ramp molds, and it's something I'd like to make available as complete as possible...I am kicking myself for not going higher on the 2 other 'scrap metal' lots.
I you are the winner(s) of the scrap metal (lot 309, lot 363) or have any other unique assemblies: PLEASE reach out to me. I can hand you a bit of quick profit and/or I have other stuff to trade (playfields, rotisseries, etc) that may be of interest to you.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:How did so many of you guys gain access to time machines? Looking at the first few pages of this thread soo many people called it.
No crystal ball needed. Recognizable tactics, 'too good to be true' promises, obvious management mistakes, the egotist who puts himself above everything, and using math that doesn't add up.
What made deeproot so stand-out from the usual naive burn up was RM not only stepping in the poop, but then doubling down on it and trying to go even bigger. He really bought into his own fantasy all while making mistakes regular business people spot and crush ASAP. He ran a business in a way that just made zero financial sense. So unless you are a billionaire just playing with your toys... it's obvious that kind of business will not be around for long.
Just go back to the threads before this (magic girl/jpop thread) and see how DR had a bad odor even before they announced their trade-in/pre-order deal.
It would be interesting to rewind time and see how the public would have perceived things if they knew about the Spooky meetings and dealings around that time. Just the idea of more people saying 'no' - I wonder if it would have slowed any of the blind believers. Doubtful. So many were swooned by the lure of a JPOP unrestricted game and the idea that 'just give them a chance' before wanting to actually face any of the realities.
The argument of 'we'll just have to wait and see' from this thread is my favorite head in sand retort to things just not adding up. Pretty much "I know I can't counter what you said, but I'm willing to just wait and see if it disappears on its own". LOL
Quoted from Mr68:Agreed and I wish I had been one of them. I didn't really start catching on till about the half way mark. And even then I held out hope for the Zidware people, the ones I like and respect.
But with each Bobby strategic business move that I became aware of, I was more and more WTF. And judging by his measured comments throughout this 5 year thread, I think Frolic and I had a similar journey.
My being late to the party is why I find it irritating when I read someone with no comment history, bounce in here with a "How could you NOT have known" type attitude. That's a slap in the face to a lot of people here that got it right and put themselves out there.
Too many people for me to publicly recognize and I recently noticed some of you with gray hearts on your profile. I hope you don't mind but I will be donating to Pinside in your name and changing them to red. You guys deserve some recognition.
I think the difference with deeproot was the “endless money” NOBODY guessed this was a huge retirement/insurance scam. The endless funds really threw us off the trail. We all wanted to believe in a JJP level Angel-investor who doesn’t care about profitability and believed in a “growth company”
It’s really difficult to sus those types out. Conceptually? Yes, it sounded too good to be true. But burning through 57 million is so outrageous and unfathomable for a freaking “pinball” company!!
Has any auction item winners been sent an invoice yet?
It's odd that the item I bid on says... "you may have won" and I haven't been invoiced yet.
Normally invoices go out immediately and they usually charge the credit card on file.
Quoted from d0n:Has any auction item winners been sent an invoice yet?
It's odd that the item I bid on says... "you may have won" and I haven't been invoiced yet.
Normally invoices go out immediately and they usually charge the credit card on file.
They had issues sending them out. I called them yesterday when they sent out the email talking about the issue. Said to call back on monday if I didnt get it
What lot(s) did you get?
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