(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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There are 33,444 posts in this topic. You are on page 556 of 669.
#27751 2 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

I agree that we've just been unlucky with original themes. TNA is awesome and sold very well, all things considered. I think a space theme would do very well, but yeah, it would need to be a good game. I'd love to see Keith do one to see if the profit ratio would be different.

The profit ratio would be different in that it would be worse than his other games... barring some once in a generation lightning in a bottle sort of situation.

Saying the "art, sound, layout, rules" has to be perfect for it to sell says enough. The only thing for sure is people would not agree on what is good here.

See "Dialed In's theme is the worst ever" vs. "It is a great homage to prior games". The art on Dialed In is fine/great (ACDC / Iron Man are examples of state of the art "art" from around 10 years ago...). But "he is wearing the wrong jeans", I know the game sucks even before giving it a chance because he is wearing the wrong jeans".

Why would you risk your company trying to launch a one in million game, vs. just rehashing a theme people are fighting each other for LE spots for sight unseen? It literally makes so little sense it boggles my mind how often this comes up.

I wonder if car forums are full of people saying "why don't the big auto makers sell 3 wheeled cars?". With the perfect stability control, styling and packaging the would sell some!". And I am excited about some 3 wheeled cars (see the new Aptera) but I am not sitting there dumbfounded GM is not hopping on board the 3 wheeled "trend" at this point... "if they really wanted to beat Toyota they would for sure start selling models almost nobody wants". If that sounds absurd it is because it is.

10
#27752 2 years ago

While not the biggest seller I think TNA did the best job with an original theme. (in modern times)

It's simple, the designer actually understands the genre (unlike Old Man Lawlor) the soundtrack and bass box draws you in. Aside from the backglass the art is pretty basic but it fits the theme.

Something to consider Stern is kind of making original themes just skinned on a license. Like Jurassic Park, which is an amazing game. Or Elvira 3, which back-doors a Mst3k pin we'd otherwise never get.

And no, CGC remakes aren't original themes. You've heard of Cactus Canton? Then it's an IP!

#27753 2 years ago

The next original theme should be about a abandoned oak table.

#27754 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Pitch meeting: “ok have I got a great original theme! Yes, it has to be done absolutely perfectly and everything has to break our way for it to sell. Also, we need to create hours of content for that LCD our games all have now, as well as an equal amount of new, original audio work.”
“Our second idea is to do, uh, I don’t know, how about Superman?”
“Yeah, let’s go with Superman.”

Agree, 100%
Definitely easier to go the licensing route, especially these days having to create video
No argument there

#27755 2 years ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

I wonder if car forums are full of people saying "why don't the big auto makers sell 3 wheeled cars?"

This deeproot thread has it all: a warehouse of orphaned hi-fi speakers, foreign bride matchmaking websites, and now the very first 3-wheeled cargument.

Never disappoints.

#27756 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

While not the biggest seller I think TNA did the best job with an original theme. (in modern times)

I love TNA. It might be my desert island pin at this point. But it’s a game made by a guy just for fun & he never expected to sell any. So, its ultimate story of selling 500 games is great for an “indie”. But people need to understand that 500 for a factory like Stern or JJP would be a failure…unless it was planned as an ultra-expensive ultra-limited collectible.

#27757 2 years ago

Still. TNA was themed very well. More so than that infinitely higher budgeted Dialed In, which (while being a great game) had so many more marketing issues beyond Captain America in Mom Jean's.

#27758 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

You've heard of Cactus Canton?

Hmm. A pinball machine about a baseball spring training league hall of fame?

#27759 2 years ago

I still think a retro space theme could sell insanely well if done correctly (like TNA was). Plus stern would save a shit ton on licensing fees to make up the difference.

#27760 2 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

I still think a retro space theme could sell insanely well if done correctly (like TNA was). Plus stern would save a shit ton on licensing fees to make up the difference.

In some ways pinball is like Hollywood.

Better to make "sure bets" (endless sequels & remakes) than risk money on something new.

You know they are going to sell, the only question is how well.

I'm sure Stern is making a tidy sum of money on licensed themes with low risk to them.

Let someone else make riskier product.

12
#27761 2 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

I still think a retro space theme could sell insanely well if done correctly (like TNA was). Plus stern would save a shit ton on licensing fees to make up the difference.

Why don’t people understand this…licensing doesn’t cost much per game. For the amount of assets, voices, art, animation, story, characters & music they get - not to mention instant sales, there’s no “money saved” by doing non-licensed.

There’s zero reason for them to do “Gary in Space” vs. Star Wars & GOTG.

#27762 2 years ago

I feel like I'm in the pinball FB group with the amount of hose brains that think original IP's are a good idea in todays market.

#27763 2 years ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

I feel like I'm in the pinball FB group with the amount of hose brains that think original IP's are a good idea in todays market.

But just think of the magic.

With all that money saved by not paying a license fee, we’d see 16 upper and lower playfields, smoke, fire, lasers, and of course the most innovative thing of all: magnets.

Why can you not see the possibilities?!

Finally, a true world under glass.

#27764 2 years ago

Didn't Legends of Valhalla (an original theme) just sell out their 500 LEs super fast?

#27765 2 years ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Didn't Legends of Valhalla (an original theme) just sell out their 500 LEs super fast?

Quoted from brucipher:

Didn't Legends of Valhalla (an original theme) just sell out their 500 LEs super fast?

I don't think 500 machines is considered a home run by any of the major manufacturers. Heck even for a spooky game at this point it would be disappointing.

#27766 2 years ago

How many LoVs do people think AP will sell?

There seems to be a pretty hard cap on how many people will actually pay for an original theme, and its likely somewhere between 1-2k units. Fine for smaller manufacturers, disaster for Stern’s hungry line.

Although I guess Stern could try another original theme considering their massive backlog of machines to build

BKSOR had one of the fastest last calls in the Spike 2 era. It or the Munsters had the shortest (and the Munsters did all sorts of things to juice sales like increasing the LEs after announcement and later making color premiums)

#27767 2 years ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

I don't think 500 machines is considered a home run by any of the major manufacturers. Heck even for a spooky game at this point it would be disappointing.

I would think selling 500 games in a day or two for AP is probably considered a home run...but perhaps I am wrong (also, I may be wrong on them selling out - I see there are ads still up for the LE version). Still, at $8400 a pop, that's 4.2 million in sales in a couple days if they sold all 500.

#27768 2 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:BKSOR had one of the fastest last calls in the Spike 2 era.

I feel like something else went on there...there is enough demand to do another run of this title. "Retiring" it so early made no sense. Even if there is not much demand, you can keep it in the catalog until enough demand is there to run a batch. It costs nothing to have the title in your catalog, especially since it is a Spike2 game.

#27769 2 years ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Didn't Legends of Valhalla (an original theme) just sell out their 500 LEs super fast?

That happened during FOMO madness…right after the Banning auction & every friggin game reselling for more than MSRP. I’d consider it an anomaly.

#27770 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Really, we got to see every inch of the Total Pinball Ownership Experience, save for actually owning the pinball machine. And it was glorious.
Hopefully someone will pick up the pieces and make the experience - From Pinpod to $1500 annual warranty service contract - a complete

But just think of the magic.
With all that money saved by not paying a license fee, we’d see 16 upper and lower playfields, smoke, fire, lasers, and of course the most innovative thing of all: magnets.
Why can you not see the possibilities?!
Finally, a true world under glass.

I can. You just listed my greatest fantasy homebrew. Smoke machine multiball? Come on!

#27771 2 years ago

The jury just found Elizabeth Holmes guilty of conspiracy (count 1) in the Theranos trial. Not guilty on count 2. . .awaiting the decision on several other counts.

Financial crime accountability.

#27772 2 years ago
Quoted from ZNET:

The jury just found Elizabeth Holmes guilty of conspiracy (count 1) in the Theranos trial. Not guilty on count 2. . .awaiting the decision on several other counts.
Financial crime accountability.

I had an appt one day at one if the labs that used this. Show up, doors locked. Little googling revealed why..

#27773 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

And no, CGC remakes aren't original themes. You've heard of Cactus Canton? Then it's an IP!

That is the one made in Taiwan. Cactus Canyon is the CGC remake....

#27774 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

That is the one made in Taiwan. Cactus Canyon is the CGC remake....
//<![CDATA[
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But cowboys in Ohio… it would sell dozens!

#27775 2 years ago
Quoted from ZNET:

The jury just found Elizabeth Holmes guilty of conspiracy (count 1) in the Theranos trial. Not guilty on count 2. . .awaiting the decision on several other counts.
Financial crime accountability.

Lot of similarities between Theranos and deeproot... Promising the impossible. A CEO who promises advanced tech but can't change a lightbulb. Threatening everyone with lawsuits. The bullshit "secret sauce" hidden behind closed doors because "trade secrets"

At least Robert didn't have a fake voice.

#27776 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Lot of similarities between Theranos and deeproot... Promising the impossible. A CEO who promises advanced tech but can't change a lightbulb. Threatening everyone with lawsuits. The bullshit "secret sauce" hidden behind closed doors because "trade secrets"
At least Robert didn't have a fake voice.

That we know of!?!

#27777 2 years ago
Quoted from brucipher:

I would think selling 500 games in a day or two for AP is probably considered a home run...

Small number of games helps to sell them out quickly. I wonder if they would even pre-sell 500 if they announced no limit to games being made and no cut off time to purchase.

#27778 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Lot of similarities between Theranos and deeproot...

One was a bloodsucker and the other was the darling of Silicone Valley.

#27779 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Lot of similarities between Theranos and deeproot... Promising the impossible. A CEO who promises advanced tech but can't change a lightbulb. Threatening everyone with lawsuits. The bullshit "secret sauce" hidden behind closed doors because "trade secrets"
At least Robert didn't have a fake voice.

What's up with the fake voice comment? I watched the Theranos documentary and she did have a deep voice. That wasn't her actual voice?

#27780 2 years ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

What's up with the fake voice comment? I watched the Theranos documentary and she did have a deep voice. That wasn't her actual voice?

Compare her "low" speaking voice here:

With this part in the same interview:

#27781 2 years ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

What's up with the fake voice comment? I watched the Theranos documentary and she did have a deep voice. That wasn't her actual voice?

It's not her natural speaking voice. She's intentionally lowering the pitch. Anyone can change and sustain a different pitch of their voice with practice and effort, but it doesn't generally sound quite "natural". If you've done any significant vocal training or singing (or have an interest in those subjects), it's really obvious.

Some have surmised she did it to sound more authoritative.

#27782 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

With this part in the same interview:

I agree with you. Though I think she's *still* artificially lowering her voice pitch in the second part, too.

#27783 2 years ago

I'm aware of female politicians taking vocal training to not be considered "shrill", but this takes it to a whole other level.

#27784 2 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Also home addresses to a lot of recognizable people. Maybe some things should be redacted from public court filings

Agreed.

Quoted from Inside:

So there's a full list (70 pages) of creditors. JPOP is in there!
The grift continues
removed

I would like to ask the poster or one of the moderators to remove this link please. Whilst it doesn't make the document go away the posting of this (whilst clearly well intended) is causing many of our friends (And others who didn't sign up for this either) in the community serious cause for concern and anxiety and I implore, in fact I beg, that it be removed from pinside and I ask kindly that the community considers the security and well being of all of our family in this community.

In 2016 I was not in a great place and I stumbled into this community and many people, including many on that list, where truly welcoming and friendly and maybe even saved me from myself. I ask with respect to our community that we walk in the shoes of those who have already been negatively impacted by the deeproot farce to do them one more service and not make a terrible situation any worse by making personal and private details public.

Many thanks,
Neil.

#27785 2 years ago

FAILURE THOUGHT PROCESSES THAT (partially) DOOMED DEEPROOT:

DR employee: "Boss, screws for assembly are $0.002 cents per piece."

RM: "How about we mine for ore, process it into steel, and then fabricate our own screws. All in house. After we process 120 million screws, our cost will be $0.0019 per piece. Genius... MAKE IT HAPPEN!"

DR employee: "But Boss, that is enough screws for over 2,000,000 pinball machines!"

RM: "MAKE IT HAPPEN!!"

#27786 2 years ago

There's a new filing to the sec case. My comp is in the shop so I don't have the extension that saves pacer stuff to courtlistener. Someone else want to grab it?

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/60223430/securities-and-exchange-commission-v-mueller/

10
#27787 2 years ago

Regarding original themes:

Stern just sold 1000 LEs of fucking RUSH in a few hours.

Deeproot couldn't move 75 units of RAZA.

Again, an unfathomable failure even before you get to the fraud part.

#27788 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Regarding original themes:
Stern just sold 1000 LEs of fucking RUSH in a few hours.
Deeproot couldn't move 75 units of RAZA.
Again, an unfathomable failure even before you get to the fraud part.

Listen to the man. Ben knows what he is talking about (i.e. AMH)

Full disclosure: Not a dig, just a fact. Everyone knows they didn't want or could've made many of them.

#27789 2 years ago

I bet Spooky could move 300 "Vaulted" AMH's with new art easier than falling off a log.

#27790 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Regarding original themes:
Stern just sold 1000 LEs of fucking RUSH in a few hours.
Deeproot couldn't move 75 units of RAZA.
Again, an unfathomable failure even before you get to the fraud part.

I'm reading this like ...Stern just sold 1000 LEs of FUCKING RUSH!!!

#27791 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I bet Spooky could move 300 "Vaulted" AMH's with new art easier than falling off a log.

I totally agree. People sleep on the game for being ugly and a bit janky from a literal mom and pop screwdriver shop, but a version with what they know now would sell a few hundred. Assuming the good code could be ported to a modern controller without too much difficulty and another layer of polish.

Sucks Chuck is too honorable to go back on saying only 150 will ever be made.

But again, FOMO drives sales and I think there is still a pretty hard cap on how many original themes will sell. Let’s see how another run of TNA goes in the future…it’s inevitable

#27792 2 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

I'm reading this like ...Stern just sold 1000 LEs of FUCKING RUSH!!!

Not really a comparison RAZA to Rush or Stern to non-existing DR. Stern is the king.

FYI, Technically distributors have to buy all these Rush games. So Stern LEs are always sold out to distributors. We will see how quickly they fly off of distributors shelves. Usually LEs do go quickly, but you can still get them from distributors currently, just call around.

#27793 2 years ago

You mean TNA 2 point WHOOOOAH?

Yes it's coming.

#27794 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Stern just sold 1000 LEs of fucking RUSH in a few hours.

I would buy 1000 Rush pins before ever buying one Derp Poop pin.

Well, I'm just buying 1 Rush pin...but the point is still the same.

#27795 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

There's a new filing to the sec case. My comp is in the shop so I don't have the extension that saves pacer stuff to courtlistener. Someone else want to grab it?
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/60223430/securities-and-exchange-commission-v-mueller/

Tried to get on phone but wouldn't display. May have purchased several times without download success

#27796 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Compare her "low" speaking voice here:
With this part in the same interview:

Ok, got to admit that I can't tell a $10 wine from a $30 wine (yeah, never had chance at anything higher). Both sound and taste the same to me. Hope her and RM do jail.

#27797 2 years ago

This post should probably go in the confesional thread, but it's more appropriate here.

I had a f'd dream two nights ago where my mom, who if you read a thread of mine earlier this year knows she left my step-dad for a love interest, and would possibly understand my weird dream. I have lucid dreams where things seam really real. I even came up for a formula for my Master's Degree thesis forced through a dream. Any way.

My dream was my mom was marrying Robert Mueller. Myself, my sister, and my step-siblings all got a demand letter to meet RM and my mom. We were all instructed to wear formal dress and had no idea what was going on. Instead of a wedding we all had to sign non-discloser documents. I was forced to talk to him and inspect the new house that was a mansion in disrepair. I then woke up to take a piss and thought, what a f'd up dream.

I'm not making this up.

#27798 2 years ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

Ok, got to admit that I can't tell a $10 wine from a $30 wine.

#27799 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Regarding original themes:
Stern just sold 1000 LEs of fucking RUSH in a few hours.

Yeah, but I'm thinking at least 1/3 of those are immediate/future flippers. With the resale price of recent LE's through the friggin' roof(like GB), it's not entirely dumb to try this route for making a quick buck. The massive price increase on the LE's cut into that quite a bit, but I've already seen people offering 16k for an LE, so it might not be a bad idea, for at least a little while. I'm guessing that price increase and the doubling of the total LE's by Stern is looking like it was a great idea to Gary right about now, too. It wasn't all that long ago that LE's were $8499 all day long. There's no way that production costs increased that much in that short of a time. Everybody is trying to cash in on current crazy market conditions. Worse comes to worse you end up with a fun pinball machine.

Gotta say, though. Kinda looks like a reworked Austin Powers. The drop target-to-locked ball-to-newton ball is a pretty trick little system, though.

#27800 2 years ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

This post should probably go in the confesional thread, but it's more appropriate here.
I had a f'd dream two nights ago where my mom, who if you read a thread of mine earlier this year knows she left my step-dad for a love interest, and would possibly understand my weird dream. I have lucid dreams where things seam really real. I even came up for a formula for my Master's Degree thesis forced through a dream. Any way.
My dream was my mom was marrying Robert Mueller. Myself, my sister, and my step-siblings all got a demand letter to meet RM and my mom. We were all instructed to wear formal dress and had no idea what was going on. Instead of a wedding we all had to sign non-discloser documents. I was forced to talk to him and inspect the new house that was a mansion in disrepair. I then woke up to take a piss and thought, what a f'd up dream.
I'm not making this up.

Do you remember the convo with rm?

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