Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from SnowGalvin:One of the squares is about shipping at least one RAZA machine to a paying customer by 'mid to late January,' so I'm assuming at some point Deep Root set this deadline in an official announcement (among their many 'deadlines' and announcements)?
I love that “not qualifying for a bingo square” can be added to deeproot’s Repertoire of Failures.
Speaker guy breaks his silence:
"I was involved with the speakers in the front of the cabinet, all of the speakers locations and designed them around the space and location really. The other thing that got scrapped I came up with was feedback in the paddle buttons. Something they really screwed me on was the amp for it. I designed up a 6 channel amp, had several prototypes made, then they said they wanted to make amps in house.
All the speakers have Deeproot branding, and I wanna offload the whole batch at once. I do have some loose subs but I’ll gladly offload the whole lot of everything branded at a good price and whomever buys them can capitalize on them as they choose."
Interested parties can reach out to [email protected].
Quoted from benheck:What was Robert's plan in fall of 2020? He knew the SEC was on his tail. He knew he was a conman. Yet he still did his dog and pony show reveal and took pre-orders.
Was he hoping for a Hail Mary hit that would create an influx of cash? Could this cash pay off some investors and keep the scam going a little while longer?
It's really hard to get inside the mindset of a crazy person.
That had to be his only play, somehow hoping the pinpod reveal would so explode the hobby that got thousands of RAZA + peripherals orders. Sure he was laboring under a delusion but that has to be it.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Speaker guy breaks his silence:
"I was involved with the speakers in the front of the cabinet, all of the speakers locations and designed them around the space and location really. The other thing that got scrapped I came up with was feedback in the paddle buttons. Something they really screwed me on was the amp for it. I designed up a 6 channel amp, had several prototypes made, then they said they wanted to make amps in house.
All the speakers have Deeproot branding, and I wanna offload the whole batch at once. I do have some loose subs but I’ll gladly offload the whole lot of everything branded at a good price and whomever buys them can capitalize on them as they choose."
Interested parties can reach out to [email protected].
Hahaha awesome. Poor guy.
Robert seems to have particular disdain for speaker guys. Didn’t he screw the speaker guy who helped build the deep root Theater also? How many speaker guys did he stiff?!
I know he’s a speaker guy not a pinball guy but “paddles?” Goddammit I HATE that one! Kind of shocked Robert didn’t drop everything and adopt the paddle button force feedback speaker guy concept but I guess it’s impossible to adopt EVERY bad idea you hear.
I believe Alvin G did force feedback flipper buttons on world tour?
Quoted from SnowGalvin:Got an oddly specific question. Was at least one RAZA shipped to a paying customer by the end of January 2021?
I made 2021 bingo cards filled with predictions and I'm going through them now to see if there was a winner. One of the squares is about shipping at least one RAZA machine to a paying customer by 'mid to late January,' so I'm assuming at some point Deep Root set this deadline in an official announcement (among their many 'deadlines' and announcements)? I don't follow the boutique companies and this thread is overwhelmingly long so I figured I'd just ask.
Likewise, if anyone knows whether at least one Alien was shipped to a paying customer by March 31st, 2021, I would appreciate that info as well. I have also posted this question in the appropriate thread, but figured some of you may know.
Thanks!
Deep down inside, you knew the answer to this question before you asked it.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Speaker guy breaks his silence:
"I was involved with the speakers in the front of the cabinet, all of the speakers locations and designed them around the space and location really. The other thing that got scrapped I came up with was feedback in the paddle buttons. Something they really screwed me on was the amp for it. I designed up a 6 channel amp, had several prototypes made, then they said they wanted to make amps in house.
All the speakers have Deeproot branding, and I wanna offload the whole batch at once. I do have some loose subs but I’ll gladly offload the whole lot of everything branded at a good price and whomever buys them can capitalize on them as they choose."
Interested parties can reach out to [email protected].
That’s interesting about the vibrating flipper buttons with speakers. I’ve been messing around with using bass-shakers/tactile-transducers on the cabinet walls on my homebrew to add some additional haptic feedback.
2C1974E4-5C7A-4CD2-A68F-D48E737B93BE (resized).jpeg
And of course they want to make the amp in house for some reason…
Quoted from TreyBo69:That’s interesting about the vibrating flipper buttons with speakers. I’ve been messing around with using bass-shakers/tactile-transducers on the cabinet walls on my homebrew to add some additional haptic feedback.
[quoted image]
And of course they want to make the amp in house for some reason…
Sidebar: I've often wondered how well a tactile transducer would work compared to the rotating shaker used nowadays. More along the lines of changing the frequency and amplitude vs. a shaker. Got a short answer so we don't derail the thread?
Quoted from mbwalker:Sidebar: I've often wondered how well a tactile transducer would work compared to the rotating shaker used nowadays. More along the lines of changing the frequency and amplitude vs. a shaker.
Shaker is stronger but it’s pretty easy to make an audio track or trigger samples for the transducers to vibrate at different amounts and frequencies. Or you can get the bass shake of a TNA without the decibels.
Quoted from SnowGalvin:Good call. I'll add that for 2022. Thanks!
Got any other pinball predictions and/or hopes (guilty pleasures included)?
The wheels of justice are rusty and turn slowly… keep that in mind.
Speaker guy should just unload them up on Amazon. Get them gone quickly. Another Deeproot crazy idea of ordering too much of a common item, & not pinball specific parts for production. You would of thought they would of had a cabinet building company as a top priority, & 50-100 cabinets ready for their first build.
Quoted from SnowGalvin:aybe I should start a Pinside thread asking for suggestions. Think people would help out? Don't want to derail this thread any more.
SnowGalvin Yes you should try this. The cynicism is strong with this group!
Quoted from Apex:SnowGalvin Yes you should try this. The cynicism is strong with this group!
You mean realism is strong with this group
Quoted from Apex:I meant for pinside to provide good content for squares. In no way was I trying to say that deeproot is anything but dead, or that people weren't right for trying to warn any buyers.
You are correct- deeproot is dead, RAZA is dead…nothing more to see except buzzards picking over the dead carcass.
I hope the slow wheels of justice are faster on this one so we can all move on. But somehow I think this thread will be going for years as people look for any new angles from where did the placement equipment go, to where did the 2 razas go, to where did the ex employees all go, to how many years did Robert get, to which prison is he in, to what are their prison rules…on and on…
We are officially entering the soap opera phase, interesting to some and to others a waste of precious time. I guess it is how people value their time. Me personally, spend more time with the true hobby of pinball - go play, socialize, build something, etc.
Quoted from DoorCounty:We are officially entering the soap opera phase, interesting to some and to others a waste of precious time. I guess it is how people value their time. Me personally, spend more time with the true hobby of pinball - go play, socialize, build something, etc.
Interesting that you are posting here to supplement your opinion of a soap opera. Unfortunately this isn't fiction it is the reality of a highly advertised, puffed and failed venture that has interesting aspects. Particularly because of previous associated failed ventures associated with JPOP.
Fortunately if your not interested, you don't have to waste your time to read on in this "soap opera" nor post in this thread.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:To recap, here are the 11 chapter 7s:
Policy Services, Inc.
deeproot Pinball, LLC
deeproot Growth Runs Deep Fund, LLC
deeproot 575 Fund, LLC
deeproot 3 Year Bonus Income Fund, LLC
deeproot BonusGrowth 5 Year Debenture Fund, LLC
deeproot Tech, LLC
deeproot Funds, LLC
deeproot Studios, LLC
deeproot Capital Management, LLC
Wizard Mode Media, LLCMissing from that list are the following defendants from the SEC case:
deeproot Sports & Entertainment LLC
deeproot RE 12621 Silicon Dr. LLCAnd missing from both lists are the following still-active entities:
Farewell Dinosaur Entertainment, LLC
Robot Dreams Entertainment, LLC
Deeproot Queue Fund, Inc.
Found some additional company names:
National Wealth Solutions, LLC
Annuity Fortress, LLC
Deeproot Advisory Services, LLC
Deeproot Wealth Advisors, LLC
Deeproot 3 Year Bonus Reset Debenture Fund, LLC
Quoted from minnesota13:Interesting that you are posting here to supplement your opinion of a soap opera. Unfortunately this isn't fiction it is the reality of a highly advertised, puffed and failed venture that has interesting aspects. Particularly because of previous associated failed ventures associated with JPOP.
Fortunately if your not interested, you don't have to waste your time to read on in this "soap opera" nor post in this thread.
Thats what I thought. 3 paragraphs written about something he doesnt care about.
I forgot to get back into this thread, but thank you for the kind words and your impression is accurate.
I was a few months into the hobby when it came out. I thought it looked different and cool. I saw people saying the had doubts about it but I figured that was more on timeline. I never thought there was a risk of not getting made with that many millions already spent on development.
In the end it was a learning experience and knowing myself, I would have done it the same way with the same info I had at the time.
I was excited about it, but wouldn’t try to convince anyone to do anything.
It’s a fun hobby, but an expensive one, and I just like to buy what I like and chat with my friends about pinball.
-Nash
Quoted from Oldgoat:The thing about NashtyFunk was that I always saw him as being a realist. He wasn't hyping the game in any way, he certainly wasn't suggesting anyone else should jump on board or continue on the train. I would have to re-read his posts but I always got the impression that 1) he was fairly new (meaning he didn't have a lot of the history), 2) he bought the game because he thought the game looked great and would be fun to play 3) he figured the risk was more about when than and if and 4) he was emotionally and financially prepared to take the hit if things didn't work out.
There were some pre-order people who constatnly told people everything is fine, don't believe the haters and who acted as though they had insider info to support their positions. These few potentially caused other pre-order people to hold on to the bitter end and are more deserving of scorn...NashtyFunk was not one of those people.
Quoted from FlippinJB:Whitewater remake. Pleasepleaseplease
I was interested in seeing the Yukon Yeti title.
Quoted from Bumper:Found some additional company names:
National Wealth Solutions, LLC
Annuity Fortress, LLC
Deeproot Advisory Services, LLC
Deeproot Wealth Advisors, LLC
Deeproot 3 Year Bonus Reset Debenture Fund, LLC
I think all of those expired a while ago.
Quoted from jonesjb:I was interested in seeing the Yukon Yeti title.
Nordman is with American Pinball now, right? If so, maybe we'll see something similar...
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Deep down inside, you knew the answer to this question before you asked it.
True, but bingo's a serious game man. I gotta be sure. 
Quoted from Inside:The wheels of justice are rusty and turn slowly… keep that in mind.
I'm painfully aware. But there's always 2023 bingo..
Quoted from Apex:SnowGalvin Yes you should try this. The cynicism is strong with this group!
Made the new thread. You can find it here if you'd like to help with predictions and/or sign up to play along: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/2022-bingo-help-me-with-predictions-pinball-related-and-not#post-6685804
Quoted from brucipher:Nordman is with American Pinball now, right? If so, maybe we'll see something similar...
Hahaha not possible
Quoted from Scandell:Hahaha not possible
Why not? Obviously not that exact theme, but he could still do a follow up to Whitewater.
Quoted from brucipher:Why not? Obviously not that exact theme, but he could still do a follow up to Whitewater.
A lot of those deeproot "original" themes were definitely for the hardcore pinhead crowd, but I don't believe they are safe bets for most pinball companies.
Quoted from benheck:If funding fraud hadn't ended deeproot, making 90% original theme pins would have.
You sure hate 90s original themes 
or just hate them in todays market?
How do you know they would not sell if done well. It will be interesting to see if anyone buys up the IT & uses it.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:How do you know they would not sell if done well. It will be interesting to see if anyone buys up the IT & uses it.
Bankruptcy docs reveals RAZA sales at most 74 units. So that's how I know.
Quoted from benheck:Bankruptcy docs reveals RAZA sales at most 74 units. So that's how I know.
That’s 74 buyers on the list, so it could be slightly higher if someone was particularly dumb and decided to double down on Deeproot.
Original themes do not sell? Tell that to the folks at CGC quick before they sell out of yet another reproduction of an original theme.
Quoted from okgrak:That’s 74 buyers on the list, so it could be slightly higher if someone was particularly dumb and decided to double down on Deeproot.
Some did, by ordering multiple units that's how they even got to 74.
Quoted from Triplecdad:Original themes do not sell? Tell that to the folks at CGC quick before they sell out of yet another reproduction of an original theme.
I wouldnt call the reproduction of a popular pin a true a true original theme.
Quoted from Triplecdad:Original themes do not sell? Tell that to the folks at CGC quick before they sell out of yet another reproduction of an original theme.
That's not the same thing.
Original theme games are still happening. Haggis released Celts, AP did Oktoberfest, JJP did Dialed In, etc..
Ben is right though, original themes today just don't sell the same numbers that licensed themes do. I doesn't mean original themes suck, it just means large manufacturers like Stern don't get enough ROI off of them. Smaller outfits can actually take advantage of the lower demand on originals to cut their teeth on the first few titles.
Quoted from Mr68:Food Truck would have crushed it. Those 4 Harbor Freight tables would have been like a Bee hive.
What about an original bee theme?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:What about an original bee theme?
Deeproot should have proposed a "Hotcakes" theme, because it would have sold like...well - you know...
Quoted from Triplecdad:Original themes do not sell? Tell that to the folks at CGC quick before they sell out of yet another reproduction of an original theme.
False equivalency. Those are already classics that have demand.
Look at the failure of RAZA (twice). Look at the slow/low sales of Dialed In, BKSOR, Oktoberfest, Cosmic Carnival, Mafia, Full Throttle etc.
Themes = instant & consistent sales. Original = I’ll wait and see how it is. You can’t run a factory off if “I’ll wait to see how it is” buyers.
Quoted from Rarehero:False equivalency. Those are already classics that have demand.
Look at the failure of RAZA (twice). Look at the slow/low sales of Dialed In, BKSOR, Oktoberfest, Cosmic Carnival, Mafia, Full Throttle etc.
Themes = instant & consistent sales. Original = I’ll wait and see how it is. You can’t run a factory off if “I’ll wait to see how it is” buyers.
Agree. I see MB as a themed game. Dracula, wolf man, Frankensteins Monster, etc. It’s the Universal Monsters for goodness sake. MM has Monty Python written all over it. AFM isn’t themed but Martians attacking Earth is practically a whole genre.
Yes it is basically a meme at this point. There is a cadre of pinball folk who sit there decrying the lack of original themes.
Then an original theme comes out once in a blue moon and they often cry "I don't know what this is about, this is is stupid, the guy is wearing the wrong pants etc..."
So for some reason "Marvel Pin #12" or "Old Man Band Pin #15" gets made. Because they sell!
Quoted from benheck:Bankruptcy docs reveals RAZA sales at most 74 units. So that's how I know.
I'm still not convinced about 20 of those weren't RM buy backs.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:How do you know they would not sell if done well. It will be interesting to see if anyone buys up the IT & uses it.
I think you should do it. You’re really onto something! Please buy RAZA & try to make it for a 3rd time. This time, it’ll be totally different and there’s no way you’ll go completely broke! Looking forward to Great Sandwich Pinball’s new factory - please share the picture when you have thousands on the line!
Quoted from Rarehero:False equivalency. Those are already classics that have demand.
Look at the failure of RAZA (twice). Look at the slow/low sales of Dialed In, BKSOR, Oktoberfest, Cosmic Carnival, Mafia, Full Throttle etc.
Themes = instant & consistent sales. Original = I’ll wait and see how it is. You can’t run a factory off if “I’ll wait to see how it is” buyers.
I am one that still thinks original themes can sell if they fire on all cylinders
An original theme still has to be a good theme
Art package and video need to be good
Layout and gameplay need to be fun
All the titles you mentioned miss at least one of those points. Black Knight comes the closest but a lot of people did not like the game play and layout. I think RAZA also came close also but most people didn't have faith that deeproot could deliver. Dialed in was a horrible theme. The video and art package on Octoberfest are terrible and the theme is horrible. The layout and gameplay on cosmic carnival was horrible. Mafia was probably the worst game I ever played. Full throttle was also a pretty bad game.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:I am one that still thinks original themes can sell if they fire on all cylinders
An original theme still has to be a good theme
Art package and video need to be good
Layout and gameplay need to be fun
All the titles you mentioned miss at least one of those points. Black Knight comes the closest but a lot of people did not like the game play and layout. I think RAZA also came close also but most people didn't have faith that deeproot could deliver. Dialed in was a horrible theme. The video and art package on Octoberfest are terrible and the theme is horrible. The layout and gameplay on cosmic carnival was horrible. Mafia was probably the worst game I ever played. Full throttle was also a pretty bad game.
Pitch meeting: “ok have I got a great original theme! Yes, it has to be done absolutely perfectly and everything has to break our way for it to sell. Also, we need to create hours of content for that LCD our games all have now, as well as an equal amount of new, original audio work.”
“Our second idea is to do, uh, I don’t know, how about Superman?”
“Yeah, let’s go with Superman.”
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:I am one that still thinks original themes can sell if they fire on all cylinders
An original theme still has to be a good theme
Art package and video need to be good
Layout and gameplay need to be fun
All the titles you mentioned miss at least one of those points. Black Knight comes the closest but a lot of people did not like the game play and layout. I think RAZA also came close also but most people didn't have faith that deeproot could deliver. Dialed in was a horrible theme. The video and art package on Octoberfest are terrible and the theme is horrible. The layout and gameplay on cosmic carnival was horrible. Mafia was probably the worst game I ever played. Full throttle was also a pretty bad game.
I agree that we've just been unlucky with original themes. TNA is awesome and sold very well, all things considered. I think a space theme would do very well, but yeah, it would need to be a good game. I'd love to see Keith do one to see if the profit ratio would be different.
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