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The trustee is eyeing up the pick and place machine...
(Topic ID: 203700)
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Quoted from benheck:Only people getting money from here on out are lawyers and trustees. Rest are screwed, including the little old ladies.
I think people can file a credit card chargeback, can’t they?
Quoted from jonesjb:I think people can file a credit card chargeback, can’t they?
I think that depends upon the specifics of their card-member agreement (and how long ago the charge was made).
Odds are that some can and some can't.
So how many people actually got money from the "make Zidware customers whole" deal?
Or did everyone from that group take the "free pinball machine someday" promise instead?
Quoted from jonesjb:I think people can file a credit card chargeback, can’t they?
You must be trolling.
I've been weaning myself off of Pinside and apologize if this has already been posted. But it just now occurred to me.
In Jpop's bankruptcy filing, he listed Deeproot as a creditor. And now in Deeproot's filing, Jpop is a creditor.
Quoted from jonesjb:I’m glad I didn’t preorder a RAZA, I feel bad for those that did. Hopefully people can get some money back. This is never a good thing.
I don't feel bad for any of them. They all ignored the huge red flags and coped by saying "its just a lotto ticket bro". Most of them got their money back from their credit card company and scurried off into the night because they weren't man enough to face any sort of deserved ridicule. To be clear, I don't like seeing anyone lose money, but most of the buyers didn't and if they did it was their own fault for doing something so stupid in the first place.
I welcome any of the preorder people back. I don't want to ridicule them. They should join in on the fun we have in the sewer!
After discussing the basics of running a business and a manufacturing startup, we're moved on to learning a lot about the legal and justice system. This thread offers it all!
Quoted from Mr68:I've been weaning myself off of Pinside and apologize if this has already been posted. But it just now occurred to me.
In Jpop's bankruptcy filing, he listed Deeproot as a creditor. And now in Deeproot's filing, Jpop is a creditor.
it has not. i believe we have an endless loop.
hey jpop wheres my $$?
see deeproot
hey deeproot wheres my $$? see jpop
hey jpop.. oh shit
Quoted from Mr68:I've been weaning myself off of Pinside and apologize if this has already been posted. But it just now occurred to me.
In Jpop's bankruptcy filing, he listed Deeproot as a creditor. And now in Deeproot's filing, Jpop is a creditor.
correction:
In "Zidware Inc's" bankruptcy filing, Deeproot was listed as a creditor.
In Deeproot's filing, John Popaduik is listed as a creditor.
A corp is a corp, and even though the corporate veil was pierced in the previous court action from zid buyers, that wouldn't apply for everything. Jpop hasn't had a personal bankruptcy as far as I know.
Quoted from frolic:correction:
In "Zidware Inc's" bankruptcy filing, Deeproot was listed as a creditor.
In Deeproot's filing, John Popaduik is listed as a creditor.
A corp is a corp, and even though the corporate veil was pierced in the previous court action from zid buyers, that wouldn't apply for everything. Jpop hasn't had a personal bankruptcy as far as I know.
I want to say he has
Quoted from TreyBo69:I welcome any of the preorder people back. I don't want to ridicule them. They should join in on the fun we have in the sewer!
After discussing the basics of running a business and a manufacturing startup, we're moved on to learning a lot about the legal and justice system. This thread offers it all!
There’s enough material here in this thread to write a cradle to grave book on market research, marketing, design, manufacturing, supply chain, sales (lack of), bankruptcy, civil securities fraud, criminal securities fraud, disincorporation, and prison life.
Quoted from Inside:There’s enough material here in this thread to write a cradle to grave book on market research, marketing, design, manufacturing, supply chain, sales (lack of), bankruptcy, civil securities fraud, criminal securities fraud, disincorporation, and prison life.
Also UL certifications. And website security and user privacy. And how to rebrand someone else's product as your own.
Personally, I also brushed off the cobwebs for GIMP to make memes.
Quoted from Inside:There’s enough material here in this thread to write a cradle to grave book on market research, marketing, design, manufacturing, supply chain, sales (lack of), bankruptcy, civil securities fraud, criminal securities fraud, disincorporation, and prison life.
So true. Think paperflock would be interested?
Quoted from Roostking:You must be trolling.
Not at all, why? Are you suggesting it's not feasible?
Quoted from jonesjb:Not at all, why? Are you suggesting it's not feasible?
It was covered a few pages back. A bunch of folks went through the process. Some were successful, some weren't.
Zidware is a company. John is a person. 2 separate entities.
John being a creditor to DR could just mean they owe him unpaid salary, he was an employee after all.
As for DR being a creditor to ZW, per documents somehow ZW owes DR 500k. Guessing Robert funneled that money through to become the highest (and only secured) creditor to obtain ZW assets (specifically the gotcha patents)
What did this money buy? Who knows. Maybe when the games were ready ZW would pay DR a certain amount per game to satisfy the "Goodwill Agreement" buyers.
Quoted from frolic:correction:
In "Zidware Inc's" bankruptcy filing, Deeproot was listed as a creditor.
In Deeproot's filing, John Popaduik is listed as a creditor.
A corp is a corp, and even though the corporate veil was pierced in the previous court action from zid buyers, that wouldn't apply for everything. Jpop hasn't had a personal bankruptcy as far as I know.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:I want to say he has
Jpop + zidware related bankruptcy stuff:
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16507607/john-a-popadiuk/
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16689759/john-a-popadiuk-adversary-proceeding/
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16501152/zidware-inc/
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16689759/mitchell-v-popadiuk/
Robert and John were passing IOUs back and forth like it would generate wealth.
I wonder if Robert tried to sell off deeproot at any point. He was trying to get investors for sure, but he must have stuck to robbing little old ladies that might not ask pressing questions like "what the fuck is this company actually doing all day"
Quoted from JodyG:Pages 35-68 appear to be all the investors who were bilked.
A few notables... Pinball Life...
For the record; Deeproot does not owe Pinball Life a cent.
Terry.
Quoted from pinballlife:For the record; Deeproot does not owe Pinball Life a cent.
Terry.
so that means "creditors" are people sitting in a database of vendors/buyers/etc, doesn't mean all those are owed money, just means they are setup to accept money. I also saw Dassault systems (solidworks) in that list, which is odd because typically nobody buys solidworks directly from them, they go through a reseller.
Quoted from toyotaboy:I also saw Dassault systems (solidworks) in that list, which is odd because typically nobody buys solidworks directly from them, they go through a reseller.
I think the reseller gets the yearly maintenance and support extortion fee and Dassault gets the actual license fee less the reseller commission. But I could be wrong. I wish I could just cut the reseller out of their equation sometimes. The few times I've called for support, the sales people start calling immediately afterwards trying to upsell me shit.
Quoted from JodyG:I think the reseller gets the yearly maintenance and support extortion fee and Dassault gets the actual license fee less the reseller commission. But I could be wrong. I wish I could just cut the reseller out of their equation sometimes. The few times I've called for support, the sales people start calling immediately afterwards trying to upsell me shit.
We pay the distributor, not Dessault directly and have no business relationship with them... So it is odd that Dassault is on there but most likely the accountant doesn't understand how they sell their software...
Quoted from Haymaker:I don't feel bad for any of them. They all ignored the huge red flags and coped by saying "its just a lotto ticket bro". Most of them got their money back from their credit card company and scurried off into the night because they weren't man enough to face any sort of deserved ridicule. To be clear, I don't like seeing anyone lose money, but most of the buyers didn't and if they did it was their own fault for doing something so stupid in the first place.
Ridicule me if that turns you on.
Paid in full $7k for early build... not to make $$$. Got this chapter 7 letter. I'm okay not being as smart as you.
20211221_212827 (resized).jpg
Woohoo.
Quoted from Haymaker:I don't feel bad for any of them. They all ignored the huge red flags and coped by saying "its just a lotto ticket bro". Most of them got their money back from their credit card company and scurried off into the night because they weren't man enough to face any sort of deserved ridicule. To be clear, I don't like seeing anyone lose money, but most of the buyers didn't and if they did it was their own fault for doing something so stupid in the first place.
Paid in full here for a Raza. I'm not scurrying anywhere but thanks for projecting your story upon me. I want to see how this turns out for the fuckhead RM.
Got my chapter 7 "go pound sand" love letter today. Only cost me $7K.
20211221_212827 (resized).jpg
Quoted from Haymaker:I don't feel bad for any of them. They all ignored the huge red flags and coped by saying "its just a lotto ticket bro". Most of them got their money back from their credit card company and scurried off into the night because they weren't man enough to face any sort of deserved ridicule. To be clear, I don't like seeing anyone lose money, but most of the buyers didn't and if they did it was their own fault for doing something so stupid in the first place.
Paid in full for RAZA here. Not scurrying anywhere. Humorous that you project your story of scorn and assumed intent upon those you don't know. Speaking of scorn, I'm sticking around to find out what happens to that that fuckhead RM... Got my chapter 7 "go pound sand" love letter today. Only cost me $7k
20211221_212827 (resized).jpg
Quoted from Yoreland:Paid in full for RAZA here. Not scurrying anywhere. Humorous that you project your story of scorn and assumed intent upon those you don't know. Speaking of scorn, I'm sticking around to find out what happens to that that fuckhead RM... Got my chapter 7 "go pound sand" love letter today. Only cost me $7k
[quoted image]
Assuming you could not claw back your visa payment? Hoping you tried this like others.
Quoted from Yoreland:Paid in full for RAZA here. Not scurrying anywhere. Humorous that you project your story of scorn and assumed intent upon those you don't know. Speaking of scorn, I'm sticking around to find out what happens to that that fuckhead RM... Got my chapter 7 "go pound sand" love letter today. Only cost me $7k
[quoted image]
I'm not very smart so....
If its any consolation I think most of us know the couple of names that really deserve some ridicule, but of course, they lost nothing. Still though, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? You thought you had yourself a chance at a shiny rare game that you could show off and flaunt, it didn't matter the people who we knew were getting screwed even in the beginning as long as you got your item right? I'm glad you "only" lost 7k. Thats a lot less than what a lot of investors lost to obvious con man Robert Mueller, but you didn't seem to care then. Look, like I said, I don't want to see anyone lose money, but you got nobody but yourself to blame for such an obviously bad decision, and I hope you take a moment to reflect on the enabling you did now that we know more details.
PS- thank you though, for bringing yourself to light and being open about it. I mean that. Its a lot more noble than what a lot of others did.
I was definitely hoping that deeproot would become a viable pinball company and produce some nice stuff - even though I was skeptical of the whole thing.
And the more RM "bragged" about how great it was going to be (octo-manufacturing, more machines than anyone, pinball is easy, etc.), the more skeptical I got.
And there was absolutely NO WAY that I would send them money until I could (at least) see games being shipped & played & enjoyed.
Quoted from Haymaker:I'm not very smart so....
If its any consolation I think most of us know the couple of names that really deserve some ridicule, but of course, they lost nothing. Still though, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? You thought you had yourself a chance at a shiny rare game that you could show off and flaunt, it didn't matter the people who we knew were getting screwed even in the beginning as long as you got your item right? I'm glad you "only" lost 7k. Thats a lot less than what a lot of investors lost to obvious con man Robert Mueller, but you didn't seem to care then. Look, like I said, I don't want to see anyone lose money, but you got nobody but yourself to blame for such an obviously bad decision, and I hope you take a moment to reflect on the enabling you did now that we know more details.
PS- thank you though, for bringing yourself to light and being open about it. I mean that. Its a lot more noble than what a lot of others did.
Is it really necessary to pound in the "I told you so" and hurl insults? Pretty easy to do in hindsight and doubt you are batting 1000 in life. True, people knew there was a risk but they are not the ones at fault. Even if nobody bought in on the game, it would not have changed the fact that RM was ripping off investors for personal gain.
I think we've been answered the "What were you thinking?" question from multiple people now. I appreciate those that have answered.
Quoted from jawjaw:Is it really necessary to pound in the "I told you so" and hurl insults? Pretty easy to do in hindsight and doubt you are batting 1000 in life. True, people knew there was a risk but they are not the ones at fault. Even if nobody bought in on the game, it would not have changed the fact that RM was ripping off investors for personal gain.
It was pretty easy in foresight too. I may not be batting 1000 in life but I'm doing ok. I certainly have never blown money on blatantly obvious scams.
Quoted from toyotaboy:so that means "creditors" are people sitting in a database of vendors/buyers/etc, doesn't mean all those are owed money, just means they are setup to accept money. I also saw Dassault systems (solidworks) in that list, which is odd because typically nobody buys solidworks directly from them, they go through a reseller.
That is what I assumed when I saw Apple listed as a creditor, too. Even when you buy hardware through Apple on terms, it is done through a third party bank, or a distributor like Ingram Micro. I can't think of a scenario where Apple will have extended credit directly to a pretend entity like deeproot.
Unknown
Quoted from Haymaker:I'm not very smart so....
If its any consolation I think most of us know the couple of names that really deserve some ridicule, but of course, they lost nothing. Still though, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? You thought you had yourself a chance at a shiny rare game that you could show off and flaunt, it didn't matter the people who we knew were getting screwed even in the beginning as long as you got your item right? I'm glad you "only" lost 7k. Thats a lot less than what a lot of investors lost to obvious con man Robert Mueller, but you didn't seem to care then. Look, like I said, I don't want to see anyone lose money, but you got nobody but yourself to blame for such an obviously bad decision, and I hope you take a moment to reflect on the enabling you did now that we know more details.
PS- thank you though, for bringing yourself to light and being open about it. I mean that. Its a lot more noble than what a lot of others did.
I did agree with your first post, about people who ordered were to blame for themselves, but I think that may not be true for everyone: not everyone read here that much. There were people calling others for not believing, but that's in my opinion completely different from those who just heard of a new company and the Raza game and just bought into it without reading about all the warnings about Deeproot at pinside. I thought my upvote may have been a bit harsh to them.
Quoted from sven:not everyone read here that much
You didn't have to read threads on the forums to get an idea that something was off.
Quoted from Yoreland:Paid in full for RAZA here. Not scurrying anywhere. Humorous that you project your story of scorn and assumed intent upon those you don't know. Speaking of scorn, I'm sticking around to find out what happens to that that fuckhead RM... Got my chapter 7 "go pound sand" love letter today. Only cost me $7k
[quoted image]
Document #15 (by the defense) of the SEC trial has this tidbit:
During your creditor meeting(s) you need to bring that up. How is that they are claiming that there are no assets in the bankruptcy trial, but they are claiming that deeproot is a real company with real assets to the SEC?
Straight up quote that.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Also UL certifications. And website security and user privacy. And how to rebrand someone else's product as your own.
Personally, I also brushed off the cobwebs for GIMP to make memes.
[quoted image]
I've read this thread from the beginning and have kept up. Can I get my Deeproot Associates degree?
Quoted from ForceFlow:You didn't have to read threads on the forums to get an idea that something was off.
I know. I agree it was pretty obvious that it wasn't a business model that made any sense, and that one way or another it was doomed to fail. But I can also imagine some people may hardly read pinside at all. Though they may not be insulted at all, for they probably don't read the comments that state 'it's kind of your own fault'. :p
Bankruptcy law requires debtors to file schedules and statements within 14 days of filing for chapter 7.
That makes tomorrow, December 23, the deadline for Robert and his 11 bankrupt businesses.
You'll never guess what his lawyers filed today.
e7bc9a74-b195-4c9a-98aa-918c26c10741.pdf
The new proposed (and surely soon to be accepted) deadline is Jan 6. So I guess expect another deadline extension request to be filed on Jan 5.
Something I'm still not clear on (any thoughts 
Inside or others?) is why these particular bankruptcies and not others.
To recap, here are the 11 chapter 7s:
Policy Services, Inc.
deeproot Pinball, LLC
deeproot Growth Runs Deep Fund, LLC
deeproot 575 Fund, LLC
deeproot 3 Year Bonus Income Fund, LLC
deeproot BonusGrowth 5 Year Debenture Fund, LLC
deeproot Tech, LLC
deeproot Funds, LLC
deeproot Studios, LLC
deeproot Capital Management, LLC
Wizard Mode Media, LLC
Missing from that list are the following defendants from the SEC case:
deeproot Sports & Entertainment LLC
deeproot RE 12621 Silicon Dr. LLC
And missing from both lists are the following still-active entities:
Farewell Dinosaur Entertainment, LLC
Robot Dreams Entertainment, LLC
Deeproot Queue Fund, Inc.
Quoted from Haymaker:You thought you had yourself a chance at a shiny rare game that you could show off and flaunt, it didn't matter the people who we knew were getting screwed even in the beginning as long as you got your item right?
I don't think it's fair to use imagined intent and assumed knowledge as justification to berate someone.
(If you are a mind reader, I apologize for this comment )
Edit: Noticed you ended your statement with a '?'. Is that called, "leading the witness"? 
The part that still gets me is that after all of this...even if it weren't a scam...at the end of the day...
You'd still own a RAZA.
Game was a total heap from day 1 and should have been scrapped early on like a million other aborted Deep Root projects.
If only they'd have focused on Food Truck...
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Bankruptcy law requires debtors to file schedules and statements within 14 days of filing for chapter 7.
That makes tomorrow, December 23, the deadline for Robert and his 11 bankrupt businesses.
You'll never guess what his lawyers filed today.
[quoted image]
The new proposed (and surely soon to be accepted) deadline is Jan 6. So I guess expect another deadline extension request to be filed on Jan 5.
Something I'm still not clear on (any thoughts Inside or others?) is why these particular bankruptcies and not others.
To recap, here are the 11 chapter 7s:
Policy Services, Inc.
deeproot Pinball, LLC
deeproot Growth Runs Deep Fund, LLC
deeproot 575 Fund, LLC
deeproot 3 Year Bonus Income Fund, LLC
deeproot BonusGrowth 5 Year Debenture Fund, LLC
deeproot Tech, LLC
deeproot Funds, LLC
deeproot Studios, LLC
deeproot Capital Management, LLC
Wizard Mode Media, LLC
Missing from that list are the following defendants from the SEC case:
deeproot Sports & Entertainment LLC
deeproot RE 12621 Silicon Dr. LLC
And missing from both lists are the following still-active entities:
Farewell Dinosaur Entertainment, LLC
Robot Dreams Entertainment, LLC
Deeproot Queue Fund, Inc.
I'd like someone to weigh in what the limit is on extensions, isn't this number two or three? Is that up to the judge? Since courts are very backed up from covid, I'd guess this will only work so many times before the judge says "I need to close this case up, extension denied"
Quoted from toyotaboy:I'd like someone to weigh in what the limit is on extensions, isn't this number two or three? Is that up to the judge? Since courts are very backed up from covid, I'd guess this will only work so many times before the judge says "I need to close this case up, extension denied"
Every thus instance has been up to the judge, and I assume that's generally the case unless they run up against a particular hard line legal imperative that explicitly prohibits it.
I'll note that every extension to date has been filed unopposed on jointly with the other parties involved. So I expect judges will continue to be cool with kicking the can down the road for a long time as long as no one is objecting.
But these are just guesses from someone whose only limited legal literacy has been developed over the course of this thread (which has become veritable Deeproot University of diversified ongoing education for myself and others, it seems). So I'd welcome the thoughts of the actual lawyers here.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Missing from that list are the following defendants from the SEC case:
deeproot Sports & Entertainment LLC
deeproot RE 12621 Silicon Dr. LLC
And missing from both lists are the following still-active entities:
Farewell Dinosaur Entertainment, LLC
Robot Dreams Entertainment, LLC
Deeproot Queue Fund, Inc.
Maybe that's where all the "assets" went...to those companies. Seems like the plan might be to "bankrupt" the entities that have creditors, but move the assets into the companies that are "wholly owned" by RM. That way more people are screwed, but RM comes out with the remaining assets.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Every thus instance has been up to the judge, and I assume that's generally the case unless they run up against a particular hard line legal imperative that explicitly prohibits it.
I'll note that every extension to date has been filed unopposed on jointly with the other parties involved. So I expect judges will continue to be cool with kicking the can down the road for a long time as long as no one is objecting.
But these are just guesses from someone whose only limited legal literacy has been developed over the course of this thread (which has become veritable Deeproot University of diversified ongoing education for myself and others, it seems). So I'd welcome the thoughts of the actual lawyers here.
Some guidelines on deadline extension requests:
I don't see anything about hard limits on the number of times a deadline can be pushed back.
However, if a judge feels someone is wasting the court's time, the hammer will probably come down on that behavior.
I'd expect Robert to continue kicking the can down the road until February 13, 2022 at the earliest- since the motion allowing him to use his stolen money to pay living expenses and criminal defense attorneys expires on that date. At which point, expect him to file a motion asking the court for an extension, if there's any left. Rinse and repeat until it's all gone.
Quoted from Yoreland:Paid in full for RAZA here. Not scurrying anywhere. Humorous that you project your story of scorn and assumed intent upon those you don't know. Speaking of scorn, I'm sticking around to find out what happens to that that fuckhead RM... Got my chapter 7 "go pound sand" love letter today. Only cost me $7k
[quoted image]
With your multiple posts, seems you are projecting!
Quoted from RyanStl:Can I get my Deeproot Associates degree?
I suggest that you submit your thesis to Pinside Professor blueberryjohnson. He holds the first Ph.D. in this burgeoning field of study: a doctorate in deeproot studies. You may also be interested in earning two related degrees: a SkitB.A. or perhaps even an M.B.HeighwAy.
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