Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from NoQuarters:Some of those refunds likely were pulled back by the credit card companies further down the line in the review process.
What basis would there be to pull back the refunds? Games ordered and not delivered seems straightforward, so long as you’re within the card’s chargeback window.
Quoted from fosaisu:What basis would there be to pull back the refunds? Games ordered and not delivered seems straightforward, so long as you’re within the card’s chargeback window.
A lot of times, credit card companies will reject refund requests if it isn't plausible for them to pull the money back. My wife was once defrauded on $300 tickets to a nonexistent vendor show, and her credit card company rejected the refund request because the company that organized it had gone bankrupt. The credit card companies will usually only do what benefits themselves, since they know you have little power in the situation.
Quoted from TreyBo69:One of the SEC documents mentioned the amount he spent on the investments he was actually supposed to buy, but it was only a couple million of the sixty million
It’s insane how much wealth literally disappeared into unrecoverable things like salaries for a pinball company and animation studio that made no sellable product, private school for his kids, vacations, Robert’s growing belt line, sports tickets, etc. It seemed like he was giving out loans to his friends for things like car washes. Who knows how much he wasted on pointless trademarks, patents, and shoddily structured shell companies to poorly hide all this stuff.
And it’s still crazy how fast he spent it all. Like if he wasn’t so greedy or egotistical, he could have probably ran this Ponzi for decades before it collapsed.
Besides what’s left in the accounts, there’s probably only like a million dollars worth of office and manufacturing equipment worth anything at auction. Then maybe another million in real estate, jewelry, pinball machines, etc
And he has the balls to ask for an allowance and to use what’s left to pay defense lawyers.
I’m still curious what tipped them off. I’d like to think an investor found this nightmare thread after some lite googling.
This reminds me of someone who wins a big lottery prize, takes the cash option, and is broke a year or two later.
But in this case, the Lotto payoff funds were from investors.
Quoted from fosaisu:What basis would there be to pull back the refunds? Games ordered and not delivered seems straightforward, so long as you’re within the card’s chargeback window.
I know at least 1 preorder guy had his CC company originally tell him that they would refund him, only for them to change their mind later on.
Most of the preorder people just left and acted like they weren't buffoons for falling for this in the first place. Some smugly remarked about getting refunds from their CC companies (amex namely) and not being out anything and then vanished from the thread like a fart in the wind.
Quoted from fosaisu:What basis would there be to pull back the refunds? Games ordered and not delivered seems straightforward, so long as you’re within the card’s chargeback window.
Guess it depends on how valuable a customer they think you are. The credit card company sent that money out and it's unlikely to ever come back to them in full. They have to figure if it's cheaper to risk losing you as a customer or if taking the loss on their end is worth the customer retention.
It would be rife with fraud if they always took the customers side.
Quoted from Sinistarrett:Im just here to say “shit” to see if I can earn a downvote from that green guy.
Yea, not sure why JimWilks seems to be defending this guy at all. Maybe hes related or its JPOP
Quoted from Roostking:Yea, not sure why JimWilks seems to be defending this guy at all. Maybe hes related or its JPOP
Huh? Not defending this idiot at all. Hope he gets all the legal system can throw at him.
Quoted from JimWilks:Huh? Not defending this idiot at all. Hope he gets all the legal system can throw at him.
One slap on the wrist, coming up!
Still cracks me up how people here keep fantasizing about hard time and prison rape. We all know this doofus is gonna skate!
Quoted from Inside:Robert wasn’t the only fund manager at Deeproot. He had at least a few other people including his brother!
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/news/2017/08/16/san-antonio-financial-adviser-raises-15m-from.html
Looks like the brother got out in 2018 (right after Robert decided to stop investing money as promised), but he’s pretty high up in the Air Force reserve and in his civilian job:
https://www.zoominfo.com/p/Cary-Mueller/-2025337507
The brother probably had a lot to lose...
RAZA buyers dont deserve it. They saw the same red flags we did. Good learning lesson, understand math...
Quoted from JimWilks:Huh? Not defending this idiot at all. Hope he gets all the legal system can throw at him.
I think he's referring to you downvoting folks for what appears to be their use of curse words, regardless of the points they're trying to make.
Or maybe it's attacks on his character? Making it too personal?
Quoted from JStoltz:I think he's referring to you downvoting folks for what appears to be their use of curse words, regardless of the points they're trying to make.
10FADDD3-1502-4AB8-BF66-1EF331D18F71.gifQuoted from CrazyLevi:One slap on the wrist, coming up!
Still cracks me up how people here keep fantasizing about hard time and prison rape. We all know this doofus is gonna skate!
When RM goes from 4 years of spending like a drunken sailor with a full treasure chest to having more bills than unfrozen assets, it has got to hurt. Heavy spending is often what keeps a failed marriage together. I expect wife three is looking for an off ramp coated in jewels and Robert likely prepaid that. Inevitable wife #4 is right around the corner so he should have prepaid those wedding jewelry too. Maybe Robert should have invested in the jeweler as one of the funds’ assets. I heard their business has been good for years.
Quoted from JStoltz:I think he's referring to you downvoting folks for what appears to be their use of curse words, regardless of the points they're trying to make.
Or maybe it's attacks on his character? Making it too personal?
People can attack RM's character as much as they like. He deserves it all.
However, I have little use for those who use offensive language on this public forum. My kids read this.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:We all know this doofus is gonna skate!
Do we? Madoff didn’t skate.
There’s so much obvious provable fraud & so many people hurt…how does he weasel out of consequences?
Quoted from JimWilks:Huh? Not defending this idiot at all. Hope he gets all the legal system can throw at him.
Then why all the downvotes?
Quoted from JimWilks:People can attack RM's character as much as they like. He deserves it all.
However, I have little use for those who use offensive language on this public forum. My kids read this.
Problem is, there are not many words that can truly depict how big a scumbag he is.
Also, why would they care about this thread?
That's what kills me about forums. Gotta make it kiddieville, yet they aren't dropping 10 grand on a machine or 80,000 on a hellcat. They are not the target demo, just like I don't read Roblox forums.
Anyway.
Quoted from Rarehero:Do we? Madoff didn’t skate.
There’s so much obvious provable fraud & so many people hurt…how does he weasel out of consequences?
Because prisons are overstuffed and some attorney still gets to put the W in their column
He can’t afford to go to country club prison. He’ll probably do a year or two in federal lockup, agree to never trade securities again, and spend the rest of his life paying off the fine and restitution as a shitty public speaker living in a Food Truck down by the river.
Quoted from Roostking:Then why all the downvotes?
Downvotes? Occasionally. I give at least 20X as many upvotes as downvotes.
Quoted from JimWilks:People can attack RM's character as much as they like. He deserves it all.
However, I have little use for those who use offensive language on this public forum. My kids read this.
Understood.. don't think the downvotes are the way to communicate that to people if you expect to impact some kind of change, though.
Also, and I promise I'm not just trying to be an a**, a quick google search yielded this, might be of use to you: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/swearing-substitution/laijlgfcgafbmobgkfkgimjnfnnekfii?hl=en
Quoted from Sinistarrett:Im just here to say “shit” to see if I can earn a downvote from that green guy.
You do not disappoint sir! Downvote received.
Quoted from JStoltz:Understood.. don't think the downvotes are the way to communicate that to people if you expect to impact some kind of change.
Sadly, I don't really expect to be able to change people's behavior here. Doesn't mean I have to like it. Reminds me a lot of "You can't fix stupid"
On some level I agree cursing is a lazy crutch when there are numerous creative ways to describe the vampiric squid sucking dry retirement accounts and pinball funds which is Robert Mueller.
But that’s also bullshit because swearing is fun for all ages (at least when not punching down)
Quoted from TreyBo69:On some level I agree cursing is a lazy crutch when there are numerous creative ways to describe the vampiric squid sucking dry retirement accounts and pinball funds which is Robert Mueller.
But that’s also bullshit because swearing is fun for all ages (at least when not punching down)
"Do you have to use so many cuss words?"
Quoted from JimWilks:Doesn't mean I have to like it. Reminds me a lot of "You can't fix stupid"
Hey, my fuckin’ kid reads Pinside, too - I don’t want her learning the word “stupid” from the god damn internet!!!! 
Quoted from JimWilks:However, I have little use for those who use offensive language on this public forum. My kids read this.
Your passive/aggressive crusade has been odd and confusing to say the least. And your children will learn far worse in the streets so good luck in protecting them from that.
Here's an article you might find interesting. The subtitle is, "People who swear like a sailor are more honest and more intelligent, studies show."
Quoted from JimWilks:I think this has derailed the DR discussion long enough.
Can we get back to what will be our reaction when RM is given the inevitable slap on the wrist (i.e. little or no jail time) and then declares bankruptcy?
Prediction: he comes back to this thread from a public library computer and replies to every single insult/challenge, 1 by 1, starting with his infamous last post on page 79 and working his way through to page 525 while ignoring any new posts until he's worked off his substantial backlog.
He also regales unsuspecting library patrons with heady tales of his pinball crusades and his unjust persecution by the pinside mob, who are objectively the true villains.
Quoted from JimWilks:I think this has derailed the DR discussion long enough.
Have you been following this thread much? It was pictures of cars for a while. Then pets. This thread has everything!
Quoted from JStoltz:Prediction: he comes back to this thread and replies to every single insult, 1 by 1, starting with page 1 and working his way through to page 525 while ignoring any new posts until he's worked off his substantial backlog.
Now that would be a good attempt to swan song this thread and I don't truly think that would do it.
Quoted from JimWilks:I think this has derailed the DR discussion long enough.
Can we get back to what will be our reaction when RM is given the inevitable slap on the wrist (i.e. little or no jail time) and then declares bankruptcy?
No because you don’t want to see us cursing.
Quoted from KerryImming:Personally, after reading the prospectus I can not feel sorry for the investors. More than enough red flags in there to stop any reasonable investor.
Most of the investors did not invest directly; but were sold "shares" via Retirement Planners/CFPs. Trusted professionals, who were paid on commission on the sale.
Quoted from TreyBo69:It’s insane how much wealth literally disappeared into unrecoverable things like salaries for a pinball company and animation studio that made no sellable product, private school for his kids, vacations, Robert’s growing belt line, sports tickets, etc. It seemed like he was giving out loans to his friends for things like car washes. Who knows how much he wasted on pointless trademarks, patents, and shoddily structured shell companies to poorly hide all this stuff.
It's easy to burn through a lot of cash when you don't have any income. I still am not over the "you need to lose money for years before making it" myth that has permeated the culture. If you run a business, collect money in sales. If you don't, you will go broke.
Quoted from TreyBo69:He can’t afford to go to country club prison. He’ll probably do a year or two in federal lockup, agree to never trade securities again, and spend the rest of his life paying off the fine and restitution as a shitty public speaker living in a Food Truck down by the river.
The Feds have almost zero incentive to cut a deal with Mueller. This is how if you are in the FBI, or the SEC, you advance your career. You hook big fish then run for office or get a sweet federal appointment to something. I've googled around for frauds of this size. None of them had prison sentences / pleas for less than 5 years. The victims are an active voting block (retirees). My prediction is Mueller does more than 5 but less than 10 years in prison.
Quoted from Mr68:Your passive/aggressive crusade has been odd and confusing to say the least. And your children will learn far worse in the streets so good luck in protecting them from that.
Here's an article you might find interesting. The subtitle is, "People who swear like a sailor are more honest and more intelligent"
https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/worried-about-your-foul-mouth-swearing-could-actually-be-good-for-you
in my defense, I was a sailor.
Prison or no I'm just happy to see him removed from the hobby like the cancer he is. (and hopefully Jpop too)
As for prison, even six months will ruin his life. That's amazing ammo for his exes and he will lose wife #3 to boot.
When Robert revealed his target buyer was single mothers with spare cash I knew he didn’t want to build any pins and his mind was gone.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:When Robert revealed his target buyer was single mother’s with spare cash I knew he didn’t want to build any pins and his mind was gone.
Who else on the planet would describe a target pinball market like that?
Quoted from ufotofu:the Deeproot threads were chock full of morons defending Mueller
The goodwill offer to refund the Zidware customers bought a lot of, uhh..., goodwill. In hindsight it's easy to benevolent when you're doing it with someone else's money.
Quoted from KerryImming:The goodwill offer to refund the Zidware customers bought a lot of, uhh..., goodwill. In hindsight it's easy to benevolent when you're doing it with someone else's money.
That, and it was part of the con to grease the wheels to get more new people to jump in and part with their money and hold on while he kept lining his own pockets and wasting lots of dollars trying to look important.
From Kulek, to Jpop, to Mueller... how can anyone ever top the third guy? It's mind blowing.
There has to be a movie script in there somewhere. "Pinball Ponzi People" maybe. Or "Pinball Pirates and Pickpockets."
What is it about pinball that attracts this type? I can think of several factors: our desire to be wowed, their desire to be admired, the substantial price of new pins, our willingness to cough up that kind of money on toys, FOMO, the surface appeal of designing a fun thing, our near adulation of past designers...
But looking at how they typically crash and burn, one cannot wonder what the hell they were thinking as time went on. Probably telling themselves that they were trying to make people happy, that they never meant to rip anyone off, that they were forced to do worse and worse things to keep the dream alive as long as possible, that they never intended to do anything but produce pinballs and fulfill their promises. No doubt RM thinks "Lookit, I bought parts and equipment, I hired pinball designers and artists, I didn't just take the money and disappear overseas."
But that's no excuse. Like they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
It's not impossible, though; look at Spooky, for instance. No one trying to get rich helps. Or acting as though they are with other people's money. They invested their own time and money and grew slowly and carefully. Gotta hand it to them.
I think part of it is rich dudes who massively underestimate the amount of work required to make a decent game, let alone a great one, and have zero concept of manufacturing. They gotta have the latest and rarest shiny to show off, and think they’re buying an investment. The hobby is hungry for people who think they can pull it off for a small investment.
Honestly Big Bang Bar remake set incredibly unrealistic expectations, and that was merely slapping together mostly existing parts.
It’s amazing Spooky has managed to grow the way they have, and even still their games are lesser than what Stern can pump out with decades of experience. They do a great job of managing expectations and bending over backwards to appease customers while being content with slow and steady growth. They are realistic with how they see their current place in the industry.
Quoted from DanQverymuch:From Kulek, to Jpop, to Mueller... how can anyone ever top the third guy? It's mind blowing.
There has to be a movie script in there somewhere. "Pinball Ponzi People" maybe. Or "Pinball Pirates and Pickpockets."
What is it about pinball that attracts this type? I can think of several factors: our desire to be wowed, their desire to be admired, the substantial price of new pins, our willingness to cough up that kind of money on toys, FOMO, the surface appeal of designing a fun thing, our near adulation of past designers...
But looking at how they typically crash and burn, one cannot wonder what the hell they were thinking as time went on. Probably telling themselves that they were trying to make people happy, that they never meant to rip anyone off, that they were forced to do worse and worse things to keep the dream alive as long as possible, that they never intended to do anything but produce pinballs and fulfill their promises. No doubt RM thinks "Lookit, I bought parts and equipment, I hired pinball designers and artists, I didn't just take the money and disappear overseas."
But that's no excuse. Like they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
It's not impossible, though; look at Spooky, for instance. No one trying to get rich helps. Or acting as though they are with other people's money. They invested their own time and money and grew slowly and carefully. Gotta hand it to them.
Far too many pinball in pinball believe in the popular bullshit narrative about Gary stern; that he is a greedy other who wants to steal their money and is laughing at them by producing sub par pinball machines while taking baths in cash. They actually take the fact that Stern is a profitable, feasible pinball company cranking out fun, reliable games personally. It offends them somehow. It enrages some people and it’s totally bizarre. You see it in every reveal thread.
So they embrace fantasy after fantasy and vote with their wallets. It’ll never end till people learn to be happy with reality and stop pining for something they will never have: a pinball machine that satisfies every single want and desire.
These folks really need to find a new hobby. Letting people steal or lose your money on fantasy pinball machines is no way to get back at Gary.
Quoted from JimWilks:People can attack RM's character as much as they like. He deserves it all.
However, I have little use for those who use offensive language on this public forum. My kids read this.
There are tools to help with this, rather than you taking it out on people you don't agree with.
Quoted from Rarehero:Hey, my fuckin’ kid reads Pinside, too - I don’t want her learning the word “stupid” from the god damn internet!!
"shit", "piss", "fuck", "cunt", "cocksucker", "motherfucker", and "tits" .....enjoy! 
Quoted from spfxted:"shit", "piss", "fuck", "cunt", "cocksucker", "motherfucker", and "tits" .....enjoy!
Yep, that’s all seven !!!
Quoted from spfxted:"shit", "piss", "fuck", "cunt", "cocksucker", "motherfucker", and "tits" .....enjoy!
We need more Carlin in our lives...
Quoted from JimWilks:Can we get back to what will be our reaction when RM is given the inevitable slap on the wrist
787E9391-A2BE-43D0-BC2A-2538E15F267C (resized).jpegIs there somewhere a timeline where I can see when Robert accepted refunds, orders and did any public statement or interview?
I would like to see that side-by-side with the SEC investigation timeline.
Quoted from JimWilks:Sadly, I don't really expect to be able to change people's behavior here. Doesn't mean I have to like it. Reminds me a lot of "You can't fix stupid"
Please stop your ri-goddamn-diculous posts. You're degrading pinball enthusiast and you are embarrassing Canada.
QSS
Quoted from Bumper:Is there somewhere a timeline where I can see when Robert accepted refunds, orders and did any public statement or interview?
I would like to see that side-by-side with the SEC investigation timeline.
would also be good to look at the timeline for departures of the other deeproot funds founders, partners, etc
"I had a great attorney and got a slap on the wrist". Translated in federal speak. I got a 5K-1 deal and I'm a rat. There has to be a reason for a downward departure in the sentencing guidelines.
Federal sentencing guidelines for a $25 million fraud/embezzlement is level 22. $50 million is level 24. Now you add upwards for things like having over 250 victims, 6 levels. So this crime is either level 28 or 30. Level 30 is 97 to 121 months with 0 to 1 convictions. Now, how about that money laundering? Oh, and the mail fraud. These crimes probably won't reach as high a level. But if you don't plea guilty for everything for a 2 level reduction, they can easily add up another 10 years for the money laundering and mail fraud. And tell you that the judge hates defendants who steal from the elderly and will sentence you consecutively. So take the 8, 9, 10? or do 20 and still have state exposure for more time, and now have the IRS hound you. As well as the federal judge fining you. They apply immense pressure. Hence a 99.6% conviction rate. Anyone that says that they got a great attorney or any other story doesn't realize how the federal system works.
There are No slaps on the wrists unless you've provided substantial assistance or knowledge of other crimes that help them.
Quoted from Bumper:Is there somewhere a timeline where I can see when Robert accepted refunds, orders and did any public statement or interview?
I would like to see that side-by-side with the SEC investigation timeline.
bull3 (resized).jpgQuoted from jeffspinballpalace:When RM goes from 4 years of spending like a drunken sailor with a full treasure chest to having more bills than unfrozen assets, it has got to hurt. Heavy spending is often what keeps a failed marriage together. I expect wife three is looking for an off ramp coated in jewels and Robert likely prepaid that. Inevitable wife #4 is right around the corner so he should have prepaid those wedding jewelry too. Maybe Robert should have invested in the jeweler as one of the funds’ assets. I heard their business has been good for years.
I think wife #4 is waiting for him in lockup, and he’s got a full tube of lube at the ready.
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