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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#25901 2 years ago
 
RPR

Yoreland

Pinside member

US Yucca Valley, CA

7y 50,050 180 6

Just watched Road to Wellville. Robert Mueller is the Goodloe Bender of that movie. Sees a lucrative trend, lasso's a bunch of people to join him including idiot son of Kellog, to create a new health cereal to compete with Kellog, then squanders the investments, can't produce a factory, can't produce a cereal, cant produce anything. Ends up stealing Kellogs cereal and repackaging it as his own... Takes a bunch of pre order money off the back of that, then slips out the back door and leaves everyone else holding the bag.
s-l640 (resized).jpgs-l640 (resized).jpg

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#25902 2 years ago
 
TMB

Roostking

Pinside+ Addict

11y 106K 8,567 2

Quoted from pudealee:

The brick reminds me of a discussion we had around the dinner table once when my kids were young. One of them said that his teacher said a cuss word in class. So we asked what the word was. Not wanting to say it he said "it started with D and ended with M" (not correct spelling, but we understood). Then the other kid said he had heard a cuss word, and did the same thing to explain what he had heard "starts with P and ends with S." After a bit of silence, one of them said that he had heard another one, "it started with SH and ended with Brick." Meatloaf was spewing...

Guess you had to be there!

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#25903 2 years ago
 
???

jimwe5t

Pinside member

US Los Angeles, CA

4y 49,550 959 38

This innovative unrelated DR box might become a collectors item. Since DR is not going to deliver any pinball machines: ordering the tree roots liquidators are selling off DR HQ property, to recover every dollar they can….only this box is not as revolutionary as the original DR wooden collapsible pinball crate, which might have been their best innovation.

F7E758A6-3F8F-4836-9E45-DF0E55CD55FD (resized).jpegF7E758A6-3F8F-4836-9E45-DF0E55CD55FD (resized).jpeg

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#25904 2 years ago
 
ROB

RCA1

Pinside+ Addict

US St Joseph, MI

11y 128K 8,684 28 11

Quoted from jimwe5t:

This innovative DR box might become a collectors item. Since DR is not going to deliver any pinball machines: ordering the tree roots liquidators are selling off DR HQ property, to recover every dollar they can for stiffed investors….only this box is not as revolutionary as the original DR wooden collapsible pinball crate, which might have been their best innovation.
[quoted image]

The landscape products company is unrelated to the RM family of companies fiasco. And I feel bad for them for the coincidence.
That box is better than "Pinpod" though.

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#25905 2 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

Hopefully Robert is taking notes on the Holmes case!

Maybe he can try the "not combing your hair" defense as well!

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#25906 2 years ago
 
LEV

CrazyLevi

Crazy Levi's Pinball

US New York, NY

10y 148K 33,560

So how much did the vaunted PinPod weigh, and does anybody know the exact dimensions?

Just curious as to how much more difficult that monstrosity would have made moving pinball machines around.

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#25907 2 years ago
 
DHF

fosaisu

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 142K 10,355

Quoted from benheck:

Maybe he can try the "not combing your hair" defense as well!

The "Phil Spector" defense. It's not fool-proof.

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#25908 2 years ago
 
JJZ

toyotaboy

RandOM Pinball

US Allyn, WA

12y 184K 11,938 3 14

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

So how much did the vaunted PinPod weigh, and does anybody know the exact dimensions?
Just curious as to how much more difficult that monstrosity would have made moving pinball machines around.

If I had to guess dimensions based on the folded up pinball with the walls next to it in their video, I would say four 3/4" plywood pieces (that's what the jeep crate is) that are 2' x 4', plus a 2'x2' pallet bottom. 3/4" ply is about 2.3lbs per square foot so you have 73.6lbs just in the sides. Figure add about another 12lbs for a small pallet and you have roughly a third of a pinball machine's weight just in the crate.

pinpod_screengrab (resized).pngpinpod_screengrab (resized).png
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#25909 2 years ago
 
WLC

BMore-Pinball

Pinside member

12y 122K 4,985 33

Quoted from toyotaboy:

If I had to guess dimensions based on the folded up pinball with the walls next to it in their video, I would say four 3/4" plywood pieces (that's what the jeep crate is) that are 2' x 4', plus a 2'x2' pallet bottom. 3/4" ply is about 2.3lbs per square foot so you have 73.6lbs just in the sides. Figure add about another 12lbs for a small pallet and you have roughly a third of a pinball machine's weight just in the crate.[quoted image]

So add another $150 for shipping due to pinpod weight - genius

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#25910 2 years ago
 
CAP

clempo

Pinside member

CA Laval, QC

6y 31,800 376

You can also follow Mr68's advice to find the pinpod specs

Quoted from Mr68:

For me the Pinpod has too many negatives that others here have already spoken of. But if you're interested, contact SnapCrate.
https://www.snapcrate.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiAiML-BRAAEiwAuWVggi-h9-7XjczdwMg_MxEtibJNlHmPOuyA9RahBsgzVGkq-_He_j8o4hoCWe8QAvD_BwE

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#25911 2 years ago
 
DRK

LORDDREK

Pinside member

US Derry, NH

3y 70,800 1,156 13

Quoted from toyotaboy:

If I had to guess dimensions based on the folded up pinball with the walls next to it in their video, I would say four 3/4" plywood pieces (that's what the jeep crate is) that are 2' x 4', plus a 2'x2' pallet bottom. 3/4" ply is about 2.3lbs per square foot so you have 73.6lbs just in the sides. Figure add about another 12lbs for a small pallet and you have roughly a third of a pinball machine's weight just in the crate.[quoted image]

It was more than 2’x2’ because the running joke was it could not fit thru a standard sized door opening…

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#25912 2 years ago
 
???

frobozz

Pinside member

US Chicago, IL

8y 46,650 507 9

Also, did the irregularly-shaped pinball machine just roll around inside the rectangular crate, or was there more packing material involved?

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#25913 2 years ago
 
JJZ

toyotaboy

RandOM Pinball

US Allyn, WA

12y 184K 11,938 3 14

Quoted from LORDDREK:

It was more than 2’x2’ because the running joke was it could not fit thru a standard sized door opening…

You're right.. most backboxes are 28" alone. Also most cabinets are 48" - 52" long (plus the height of the pallet) So let's assume 3' x 5' per side, or 138lbs for the sides, and 15 lbs for the pallet/top. So we're closer to half the weight of the pinball.

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#25914 2 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,456

Quoted from frobozz:

Also, did the irregularly-shaped pinball machine just roll around inside the rectangular crate, or was there more packing material involved?

There’s some angled metal brackets in the bottom to square it up into the bottom and tie down to

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#25915 2 years ago
 
DRK

LORDDREK

Pinside member

US Derry, NH

3y 70,800 1,156 13

Quoted from TreyBo69:

There’s some angled metal brackets in the bottom to square it up into the bottom and tie down to

And a ratchet strap. The packing material was the most innovative of all. Air. Lots of air…

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#25916 2 years ago
 
JCS

jeffspinballpalace

JeffSPinballPalace

20y 242K 19,063 556

Game packed inside pinpod was too heavy to move and probably required you remove the head before shipping. And then you’d ship the backbox in a seperate but patented pinpod called the pinhhead. It was another 2’ x 2’ pinpod but with special cushion and straps to hold a single backbox for shipping. The good news is by shipping two identical looking boxes, the weight limit for each is not exceeded and you only have to pay twice as much to ship 2 boxes.

But wait there is more. If you want the topper, that comes in another 2’ x 2’ box, much like the pinpod and pinhead. But this one is different and it is called pinhat. It come with extra special foam pad and rubber bands. So there you have it, deeproot’s preferred shipping method. Each game requires one pinpod, one pinhead and one pinhat. Estimated cost of boxes is $3k and shipping a complete game within US is anothet $2k. So for $5k you can get the fullest shipping experience and have truly good pinball times with a happy ending. Wouldn’t you agree this a small price to pay for piece of mind? Industry’s first $5k solution to the age old shipping problem.

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#25917 2 years ago
 
LEV

CrazyLevi

Crazy Levi's Pinball

US New York, NY

10y 148K 33,560

Some are content to live in a world where moving an already large and heavy pinball machine doesn't involve adding a giant 130 pound box into the equation.

That's no world I want to live in!

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#25918 2 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

Is there a hackPod(tm) which is used to ship Jpop to your home to do the final game assembly?

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#25919 2 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,647

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Some are content to live in a world where moving an already large and heavy pinball machine doesn't involve adding a giant 130 pound box into the equation.
That's no world I want to live in!

That's living without the, Total Pinball Ownership Experience.

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#25920 2 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

Quoted from fosaisu:

The "Phil Spector" defense. It's not fool-proof.

How about the "walker and oxygen" Harvey Weinstein defense?

"If I can't breathe you must grant reprieve!"

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#25921 2 years ago
 
BBJ

blueberryjohnson

Pinside+ Frequent

US Honolulu, HI

8y 101K 4,731 1

Preliminary injunction and motion on it filed today

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#25922 2 years ago
 
JCS

jeffspinballpalace

JeffSPinballPalace

20y 242K 19,063 556

I thought of a business venture Robert could have pursued repurposing pinpods as Pinheaven(tm). Pinheaven(tm) solves all your burial needs while serving as a vessel for your afterlife.

The Windup - Coffins cost $5k+ and are usually bought at the last minute.

The Pitch - Pinheaven(tm) can be purchased today for half the price of a coffin. It arrives packed flat and ready for storage. It only takes 2 minutes to snap together but it creates a 2’ x 2’ chariot for a lifetime. Can be used in every country except the Netherlands. One size fits all, or how should I say this? You can only fit a 2’ x 2’ person inside Pinheaven(tm), so for large beings, purchasing 2 units is recommended. Pinheaven(tm) creates the full burial experience for the price of a used Kia.

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#25923 2 years ago
 
ABC

Inside

Pinside member

6y 43,550 219

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Preliminary injunction and motion on it filed today

Viewable here: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/60223430/securities-and-exchange-commission-v-mueller/

Takeaways:
* Robert has given his lawyers $187,000
* So Robert, his family, and deeproot are voluntarily freezing most of their assets
* Robert has 15 business days to account for every expenditure made by deeproot companies and a listing of all assets

Key post
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#25924 2 years ago
 
EDG

Richthofen

Pinside member

11y 75,800 2,697

Quoted from Inside:

Viewable here: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/60223430/securities-and-exchange-commission-v-mueller/
Takeaways:
* Robert has given his lawyers $187,000
* So Robert, his family, and deeproot are voluntarily freezing most of their assets
* Robert has 15 business days to account for every expenditure made by deeproot companies and a listing of all assets

LOL Robert had an LLC called "Wizard Mode".

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
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#25925 2 years ago
 
C F

frolic

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 149K 9,809

Knowing what we know about the money being lit on fire through years of waste and salaries, there is no money to claw back. Any guesses what a defense of this might be?

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#25926 2 years ago
 
---

ForceFlow

Pinside Moderator

9y 238K 31,369 268 14

Quoted from frolic:

Knowing what we know about the money being lit on fire through years of waste and salaries, there is no money to claw back. Any guesses what a defense of this might be?

tumblr_34157409f65023b98a97145ba4a9947b_a73064c3_250.giftumblr_34157409f65023b98a97145ba4a9947b_a73064c3_250.gif
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#25927 2 years ago
 
JLG

JodyG

Ramp-O-Matic

6y 143K 4,618 6 21 1

Feds are going to go wizard mode on his ass by the time this is all done.

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#25928 2 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,647

Quoted from frolic:

Knowing what we know about the money being lit on fire through years of waste and salaries, there is no money to claw back. Any guesses what a defense of this might be?

The Jpop Purple Haze defense.
Excuse me while I kiss money goodbye.

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#25929 2 years ago
 
JCS

jeffspinballpalace

JeffSPinballPalace

20y 242K 19,063 556

The I got high defense.

I was going to make old ladies rich, but then I got high.

I was going to challenge pinball order, but then I got high.

I was going to build them RAZA too, but then I got high.

Instead I’m counting days until I can smoke purple haze,

I’ve got 20 years to go until parole.
67DFA27E-5799-4EA0-8FAA-5F86F9351E7E.jpeg67DFA27E-5799-4EA0-8FAA-5F86F9351E7E.jpeg

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#25930 2 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

Defense? I mean it's a double fail - a failed pinball company funded fraudulently. Though I doubt the SEC cares about the second part.

In Robert's mind it's our fault, or his employees fault. Had he met his 2019 Deeproot Fun Days goal he'd have sold THOUSANDS of pins by now and put all the money back in the til before anyone asked questions.

That's the thing to remember - he really thought he was going to sell multiple thousands of unlicensed themed pins a year.

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#25931 2 years ago
 
C F

frolic

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 149K 9,809

Quoted from benheck:

That's the thing to remember - he really thought he was going to sell multiple thousands of unlicensed themed pins a year.

I do believe that. I also believe he thought he could repay the money and that somehow this was a money printing business idea.

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#25932 2 years ago
 
STK

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 134K 13,240

Quoted from Inside:

Viewable here: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/60223430/securities-and-exchange-commission-v-mueller/
Takeaways:
* Robert has given his lawyers $187,000
* So Robert, his family, and deeproot are voluntarily freezing most of their assets
* Robert has 15 business days to account for every expenditure made by deeproot companies and a listing of all assets

aka - "Please take this list and let us tell you our side of the story" instead of the gub coming in with much more aggressive sweep. Tho it sounds like the disputed list is small. Sure seems like an effort to dictate the story tho, which I would hope any prosecution would not take uncontested.

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#25933 2 years ago
 
JCS

jeffspinballpalace

JeffSPinballPalace

20y 242K 19,063 556

Quoted from benheck:

Defense? I mean it's a double fail - a failed pinball company funded fraudulently. Though I doubt the SEC cares about the second part.
In Robert's mind it's our fault, or his employees fault. Had he met his 2019 Deeproot Fun Days goal he'd have sold THOUSANDS of pins by now and put all the money back in the til before anyone asked questions.
That's the thing to remember - he really thought he was going to sell multiple thousands of unlicensed themed pins a year.

Of course that was a different time. Meaning in 2019 TNA sold 650 units and it is the most successful non-licensed pin since 2000. Move forward to 2021 and whether you could even sell a non-licensed pin comes up. Maybe you can make 500 sales if you have a top notch game, but sales will likely be lower. That is boutique manufacturers sandbox folks. To summarize in another way - a manufacturer needing to build one thousand or more of a title should not pick an unlicensed theme, because it won’t sell.

Robert’s main premises were faulty, thus dooming him from the start. His fraudulent behavior, ineptitude, inability to perform basic project management, lack of office accounting, product delays, lying and dried-up bank accounts have burned everything to the ground. As the final pyres are smoldering the SEC hits deeproot with their completed investigation alleging he’s a crook.

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#25934 2 years ago
 
JH

NoQuarters

Pinside+ Frequent

8y 128K 3,012 13 1

Quoted from Richthofen:

LOL Robert had an LLC called "Wizard Mode".
[quoted image]

I like letter l. deeproot bonusgrowth

should have been Bogus Growth

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#25935 2 years ago
 
DGN

Insanity199

Pinside member

US Gainesville, GA

7y 65,550 786 9 1

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Meaning in 2019 TNA sold 650 units and it is the most successful non-licensed pin since 2000.

Curious on your definition of most successful. DialedIn was non-licensed and sold 1600ish. Not sure how many Black Knights have been sold.

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#25936 2 years ago
 
LXL

Isochronic_Frost

Saratoga Silverball

7y 221K 9,412 108 1 1

Quoted from Inside:

Viewable here: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/60223430/securities-and-exchange-commission-v-mueller/
Takeaways:
* Robert has given his lawyers $187,000
* So Robert, his family, and deeproot are voluntarily freezing most of their assets
* Robert has 15 business days to account for every expenditure made by deeproot companies and a listing of all assets

Every time I come back to this thread I’m amazed there’s still something new. I thought this would be a done deal. This is like King Kong (2005) it just keeps going long after we left the theatre.

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#25937 2 years ago
 
REM

pudealee

Pinside member

9y 76,300 829

I'm sure I read it, but have forgotten - what is the time-frame for the next action on the legal case?

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#25938 2 years ago
 
SAC

Scandell

Pinside member

US Salt Lake City, UT

4y 66,300 588 9 10

Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

Every time I come back to this thread I’m amazed there’s still something new. I thought this would be a done deal. This is like King Kong (2005) it just keeps going long after we left the theatre.

We are at the "Eagles flying in ending" of Return of the King. We still have the Pajama Party Ending, the King coronation ending, back to the Shire Ending, Sam's Wedding Ending, Bilbo and Frodo's boat to elf heaven ending...

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#25939 2 years ago
 
BRU

brucipher

Pinside member

12y 91,300 1,697 23

Quoted from Scandell:

We are at the "Eagles flying in ending" of Return of the King. We still have the Pajama Party Ending, the King coronation ending, back to the Shire Ending, Sam's Wedding Ending, Bilbo and Frodo's boat to elf heaven ending...

If you think those extra endings are long, read the book!

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#25940 2 years ago
 
---

ForceFlow

Pinside Moderator

9y 238K 31,369 268 14

Quoted from pudealee:

I'm sure I read it, but have forgotten - what is the time-frame for the next action on the legal case?

I'm assuming 15 days (10/14) for this:

Quoted from Inside:

Robert has 15 business days to account for every expenditure made by deeproot companies and a listing of all assets

But it's also possible he may file for a continuance if he can show the court there has been progress or a significant road block in providing the information. It's also possible that if that happens the court may say no and issue some sort of action for non-compliance.

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#25941 2 years ago
 
DHF

fosaisu

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 142K 10,355

Quoted from Scandell:

We are at the "Eagles flying in ending" of Return of the King. We still have the Pajama Party Ending, the King coronation ending, back to the Shire Ending, Sam's Wedding Ending, Bilbo and Frodo's boat to elf heaven ending...

Woah woah, leave LOTR out of this. That project had far too much quality and integrity to have even metaphorical applicability here. "Dude, Where's My Car?" would probably be more on-point.

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#25942 2 years ago
 
BAR

Barr993

Pinside+ Frequent

US Evesham Township, NJ

6y 87,550 312 5

Dude!

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#25943 2 years ago
 
JJZ

toyotaboy

RandOM Pinball

US Allyn, WA

12y 184K 11,938 3 14

Quoted from ForceFlow:

I'm assuming 15 days (10/6) for this:

But it's also possible he may file for a continuance if he can show the court there has been progress or a significant road block in providing the information. It's also possible that if that happens the court may say no and issue some sort of action for non-compliance.

15 BUSINESS days, which brings us to 10/15

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#25944 2 years ago
 
SAC

Scandell

Pinside member

US Salt Lake City, UT

4y 66,300 588 9 10

Quoted from fosaisu:

Woah woah, leave LOTR out of this. That project had far too much quality and integrity to have even metaphorical applicability here. "Dude, Where's My Car?" would probably be more on-point.

I want to be the "SONY OF THE WEST".
-RM

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#25945 2 years ago
 
---

ForceFlow

Pinside Moderator

9y 238K 31,369 268 14

Quoted from toyotaboy:

15 BUSINESS days, which brings us to 10/15

Oops, I thought I counted just business days. Guess I miscounted when I flipped to next month.

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#25946 2 years ago
 
CHK

thechakapakuni

Inactive member

4y 61,300 2,093 30

Quoted from Inside:

Viewable here: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/60223430/securities-and-exchange-commission-v-mueller/
Takeaways:
* Robert has given his lawyers $187,000
* So Robert, his family, and deeproot are voluntarily freezing most of their assets
* Robert has 15 business days to account for every expenditure made by deeproot companies and a listing of all assets

I’ve never really understood criminals like this. He put the effort in (and then some) to start a pinball business (regardless of how pisspoor) and actually made a couple prototypes. The time & effort in cheating people could have been been used in legitimately raising funds to start Deeproot. Efforts in doing what he did illegally was much more effort than the legal efforts. I think this type of person gets a rush out of cheating the system and people. What a shame, hopefully justice is served here

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#25947 2 years ago
 
DHF

fosaisu

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 142K 10,355

Quoted from Scandell:

I want to be the "SONY OF THE WEST".
-RM

Handshake.gifHandshake.gif
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#25948 2 years ago
 
JAW

jawjaw

Pinside member

US Humble, TX

9y 85,550 5,536 5

Quoted from thechakapakuni:

I’ve never really understood criminals like this. He put the effort in (and then some) to start a pinball business (regardless of how pisspoor) and actually made a couple prototypes. The time & effort in cheating people could have been been used in legitimately raising funds to start Deeproot. Efforts in doing what he did illegally was much more effort than the legal efforts. I think this type of person gets a rush out of cheating the system and people. What a shame, hopefully justice is served here

That's what gets me. Seems like there are far easier ways to scam money than building pinball machines.

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#25949 2 years ago
 
JCS

jeffspinballpalace

JeffSPinballPalace

20y 242K 19,063 556

pinball scamming is hard. RM thought pinball scamming would be easy and that he could master the art.

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#25950 2 years ago
 
EDG

Richthofen

Pinside member

11y 75,800 2,697

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Of course that was a different time. Meaning in 2019 TNA sold 650 units and it is the most successful non-licensed pin since 2000.

I don't think that's true. Pinside says 1,600 Dialed in games were made, also unlicensed. And Black Knight SOR had to do more than that. The more the market moves from operators to collectors, the more viable unlicensed games can be. I'm not saying they're going to outsell licensed games, but don't rewrite history w/ TNA. It was a coup that an indie game got mass produced but it was on the heels of some other unlicensed ideas.

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