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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#25601 2 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

Even if we assume the minimum - that all investors chose the 5% per annum option over the course of 4 years - that would have required $11.6m in payouts during DR active period of 2016-2028. 16% of total raised just to "pay the Ponzi"

Worse, assuming many chose the 7% after 5 years, this would have to also be per annum otherwise why would you choose it? Bam now you're at 20m, fully a third of all monies raised. These notes would have come due this year.

I'm wondering if DR didn't service all of the 5% debt because it simply couldn't afford to and these unpaid gains are what got the SEC on their trail.

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#25602 2 years ago
 
ERW

chuckwurt

Pincinnati

10y 193K 31,342 16 13

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

What I meant was a PR person from day 1. Things may have been different from the start if you did not insult your competition. If they had a actual plan to start building actual games within days with a real production line.

You don’t get it. He used money illegally from day one.

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#25603 2 years ago
 
ROB

RCA1

Pinside+ Addict

US St Joseph, MI

11y 128K 8,679 28 11

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

What I meant was a PR person from day 1. Things may have been different from the start if you did not insult your competition. If they had a actual plan to start building actual games within days with a real production line.

You seem like a decent person.
So I don't think you are trolling us. But this is getting ridiculous.
I just don't understand how you keep failing to see that Deeproot was a massively corrupt enterprise from the beginnig. It was ALL STOLEN MONEY.

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#25604 2 years ago
 
JCS

jeffspinballpalace

JeffSPinballPalace

20y 242K 19,062 556

Quoted from benheck:

These notes would have come due this year.
I'm wondering if DR didn't service all of the 5% debt because it simply couldn't afford to and these unpaid gains are what got the SEC on their trail.

The lack of additional funding alone would have sunk deeproot right about now. You can’t keep employees ($750k/mo) if you furlough and refuse to pay them. You can’t buy material or equipment to build RAZA’s if you don’t have money. You can’t pay rent ($750k annual lease for TX) with Monopoly money. In addition to the immediate problems caused by running out of money, there’s also an inability to pay interest to inverstors if there’s no money. This tends to piss off investors and may cause someone to file a fiduciary complaint. Also an investor reading about Robert and deeproot scam, may have become concerned about how they were making money and requested a due diligence investigation.

Well the SEC investigation stopped Deeproot dead in their tracks. When they discovered non-existent record keeping by deeproot’s fund advisor, they knew this was the big CON. From their records search the SEC was able to piece together a detailed analysis of Robert’s personal and company spending to prove FRAUD.

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#25605 2 years ago
 
LEV

CrazyLevi

Crazy Levi's Pinball

US New York, NY

10y 148K 33,527

This all brings up an interesting point:

Was there a gifted PR person at any time involved in Deep Root?

It is just THAT easy to steal people’s life savings?

It can’t be that simple can it? Surely you need a top flight comms department to pull something like this off these days?

Based on the point-and-laugh press releases and promos deep root pinball put out, it’s certainly easy to tell they never hired one for the pinball con.

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#25606 2 years ago
 
PAY

pookycade

Pinside member

11y 95,300 1,837

Was reading an article about MOP closing and came across this line:

The museum touts the largest collection of classic pinball and arcade games in the world. Some of the pinball titles include Addams Family Gold
Special,'' Big Bang Bar,'' and Magic Girl.''

Out of 1000 pinball machines they pick Magic Girl to make the top 3 call out ? I don’t think it even qualifies as a real pinball machine at this point. More artistic concept of a pinball. And ya know maybe that’s the problem here all along. DR was more focused on the concept of pinball than actuall building any pinball and had John as their number one cheerleader and most skilled practitioner on that count.

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#25607 2 years ago
 
JWG

greatwichjohn

Great Pinball

CA Halifax, NS

11y 100K 4,532

I get it that it WAS A SCAM! All I am saying is many things could of been different with the right people. Not Robert being a dictator & a criminal. Like I have said no production was done. If JPOP & his games were finished & produced way back at the start. Maybe Deeproot Pinball would have survived, but not with all the bullshit lies Robert said & did over the years. The stupid Video division was the big money drain with all the employees. Big offices were another big drain, & add on the pinball staff who you need for a pinball company.

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#25608 2 years ago
 
LMS

Tranquilize

Pinside member

9y 84,550 3,778 35

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

many things could of been different with the right people. Not Robert being a dictator & a criminal. Like I have said no production was done. If JPOP & his games were finished & produced way back at the start. Maybe Deeproot Pinball would have survived, but not with all the bullshit lies Robert said & did over the years. The stupid Video division was the big money drain with all the employees. Big offices were another big drain, & add on the pinball staff who you need for a pinball company.

So, hell would be great if Satan wasn't Satan.... Gotcha

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#25609 2 years ago
 
CBM

spfxted

Pinside member

US Saddle River, NJ

12y 147K 24,659 4 9

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

If they had a actual plan to start building actual games within days with a real production line.

captain obvious (resized).jpgcaptain obvious (resized).jpg
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#25610 2 years ago
 
STK

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 134K 13,220

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

If JPOP & his games were finished & produced way back at the start. Maybe Deeproot Pinball would have survived, but not with all the bullshit lies Robert said & did over the years.

That’s like saying “if deeproot wasn’t deeproot, maybe a game could have been made”. You just keep spewing nonsensical arguments and hypotheticals. Just stop already.

“If games were finished & produced…” HELLO that is the whole challenge to start with! … you might as well say “if pinball was actually easy, maybe deeproot would have survived “. Just stupid tslk.

I got news for you…. RAZA is a turd. Accept it already and stop thinking someone is gonna save it. Anyone that dumb is gonna burn through their resources too.

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#25611 2 years ago
 
JIM

Jvspin

Pinside+ Addict

US Redwood City, CA

11y 95,050 3,368 15

If wishes were fishes, beggars would eat.
(or something like that)

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#25612 2 years ago
 
DMC

Bruce_Pickle

Pinside member

6y 55,550 217

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#25613 2 years ago
 
VIC

PinMonk

Pin Monk

9y 183K 30,178 16

Quoted from Jvspin:

If wishes were fishes, beggars would eat.
(or something like that)

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

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#25614 2 years ago
 
RUS

russdx

Pinside member

8y 60,800 2,084 5

If they had a decent PR person there would be a shit ton more scammed pinball guys, I'm glad they sucked at PR, stopped many more ppl being burned!

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#25615 2 years ago
 
PRS

pinballrockstar

Pinside member

NL Rotterdam

9y 117K 13,648 11

I hope my RAZA will de done soon,it’s taking a long time man…

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#25616 2 years ago
 
AE

aeneas

Flippers.be

11y 76,050 1,522

Quoted from NoQuarters:

What I don't understand is how fast some say they got money back from their credit cards. Some were saying that about 10 days after the SEC filing. How do you have a credit card dispute get solved that fast ? I would think the credit card has to give notice and wait for a response for some period of time to the party that the dispute is filed against. Could be wrong, but it is surprising the speed at which charge backs were completed.

I'm also amazed if CC companies don't investigate this further.
Everyone who asks a refund conveniently forgets to tell the CC company they signed a contract that the money was non-refundable..

No problem if deeproot is totally dead and Robert doesn't answer any email/call anymore.
But should someone answer the CC company and show them the contracts everyone signed, then the money goes to deeproot ?

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#25617 2 years ago
 
DGN

Insanity199

Pinside member

US Gainesville, GA

7y 65,550 783 9 1

This guy has finally met his match. Greatwichjohn!

As others mentioned, you seem like a nice guy but repeating the same things and expecting different results is pure insanity. Ask me, I should know.

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#25618 2 years ago
 
LRP

lpeters82

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 132K 5,283 8

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

I get it that it WAS A SCAM! All I am saying is many things could of been different with the right people. Not Robert being a dictator & a criminal. Like I have said no production was done. If JPOP & his games were finished & produced way back at the start. Maybe Deeproot Pinball would have survived, but not with all the bullshit lies Robert said & did over the years. The stupid Video division was the big money drain with all the employees. Big offices were another big drain, & add on the pinball staff who you need for a pinball company.

Do you just need someone to agree? If so, you are right! If this wasn't a scam, things might have turned out differently. That said it's like calling out the public relations person for White Star Lines. That wasn't the problem.

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#25619 2 years ago
 
RJW

screaminr

In Memoriam

7y 116K 6,151

This thread used to be cool . I remember when we used to talk about our Shit box cars , ah the good old days

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#25620 2 years ago
 
GAC

Rarehero

Pinside member

US Los Angeles, CA

12y 134K 23,142 22 119

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

I get it that it WAS A SCAM! All I am saying is many things could of been different with the right people. Not Robert being a dictator & a criminal. Like I have said no production was done. If JPOP & his games were finished & produced way back at the start. Maybe Deeproot Pinball would have survived, but not with all the bullshit lies Robert said & did over the years. The stupid Video division was the big money drain with all the employees. Big offices were another big drain, & add on the pinball staff who you need for a pinball company.

474E0A42-DCD9-4CEE-9C9D-1FB32962A8B6.gif474E0A42-DCD9-4CEE-9C9D-1FB32962A8B6.gif
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#25621 2 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,645

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

I get it that it WAS A SCAM! All I am saying is many things could of been different with the right people. Not Robert being a dictator & a criminal. Like I have said no production was done. If JPOP & his games were finished & produced way back at the start. Maybe Deeproot Pinball would have survived, but not with all the bullshit lies Robert said & did over the years.

I know that Stern is A SUCCESSFUL COMPANY! All I'm saying is that if Gary Stern had not taken on investors and had hired the wrong people and made bad decisions, they would be bankrupt right now.

Why is my hypothetical of the obvious not being understood.

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#25622 2 years ago
 
WLC

BMore-Pinball

Pinside member

12y 122K 4,981 33

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

I get it that it WAS A SCAM! All I am saying is many things could of been different with the right people. Not Robert being a dictator & a criminal. Like I have said no production was done. If JPOP & his games were finished & produced way back at the start. Maybe Deeproot Pinball would have survived, but not with all the bullshit lies Robert said & did over the years. The stupid Video division was the big money drain with all the employees. Big offices were another big drain, & add on the pinball staff who you need for a pinball company.

So you are saying without robert and Jpop it could of done well ...........
so you mean like a completely different company

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#25623 2 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

Don't forgot how deeproot was doing mostly original titles, another reason it never would have worked.

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#25624 2 years ago
 
JJZ

toyotaboy

RandOM Pinball

US Allyn, WA

12y 184K 11,930 3 14

Quoted from benheck:

Don't forgot how deeproot was doing mostly original titles, another reason it never would have worked.

i think you meant unlicensed. fire and brimstone is not original, this guy ben came up with that one.

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#25625 2 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

Yup John and Robert both stole the idea from me because they're talentless hacks. (John created one of his famous dummy sites creationpinball.org in 2014)

Speaking of PR nobody in their right mind would tell you to name a risky concept like a Bible game "Fire and Brimstone" but again, Robert has no clue.

Well speaking of religion, I'm off to the funeral of my atheists uncle's wife.

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#25626 2 years ago
 
MOO

snakesnsparklers

Pinside member

9y 92,800 4,828

Quoted from PinMonk:

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

I thought the saying was: "if onlys and buts were candies and nuts, then everyday would be Erntedankfest."

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#25627 2 years ago
 
JSS

JStoltz

Pinside member

6y 62,050 822 4

Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

I thought the saying was: "if onlys and buts were candies and nuts, then everyday would be Erntedankfest."

I think the original saying (excuse any grammatical or translation errors here) is something like "If RAZA's were manufactured, Robert Mueller would still be on his way to prison for defrauding his 575 investors."

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#25628 2 years ago
 
BHZ

ZNET

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 135K 1,923

Quoted from aeneas:

I'm also amazed if CC companies don't investigate this further.
Everyone who asks a refund conveniently forgets to tell the CC company they signed a contract that the money was non-refundable..
No problem if deeproot is totally dead and Robert doesn't answer any email/call anymore.
But should someone answer the CC company and show them the contracts everyone signed, then the money goes to deeproot ?

The nonrefundable contractual provision is, in my interpretation, inconsequential. That's because the deposits are, by implication, contingent upon delivery of the purchased product.

These transactions are governed by the Uniform Commercial Code and other laws of commerce. These deposits were not denominated as "investments" in the transactions themselves, even though we often characterize them as such here in this thread.

Conversely, the 575 fund was indeed an investment, subject to very different strictures.

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#25629 2 years ago
 
STK

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 134K 13,220

Quoted from aeneas:

I'm also amazed if CC companies don't investigate this further.
Everyone who asks a refund conveniently forgets to tell the CC company they signed a contract that the money was non-refundable..
No problem if deeproot is totally dead and Robert doesn't answer any email/call anymore.
But should someone answer the CC company and show them the contracts everyone signed, then the money goes to deeproot ?

Non-delivery >> Non-refundable

It's basically failed to execute/deliver... and the merchant isn't there to fight back either.

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#25630 2 years ago
 
WLC

BMore-Pinball

Pinside member

12y 122K 4,981 33

Quoted from flynnibus:

and the merchant isn't there to fight back either.

Why would he ... it's not his money

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#25631 2 years ago
 
-

27dnast

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 140K 8,597

Quoted from greatwichjohn:What I meant was a PR person from day 1. Things may have been different from the start if you did not insult your competition. If they had a actual plan to start building actual games within days with a real production line.

You need to study up on how a con man works.

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#25632 2 years ago
 
JEG

tslayer71

Pinside member

US Lakewood, CO

12y 77,550 1,231 10

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

I get it that it WAS A SCAM! All I am saying is many things could of been different with the right people. Not Robert being a dictator & a criminal. Like I have said no production was done. If JPOP & his games were finished & produced way back at the start. Maybe Deeproot Pinball would have survived, but not with all the bullshit lies Robert said & did over the years. The stupid Video division was the big money drain with all the employees. Big offices were another big drain, & add on the pinball staff who you need for a pinball company.

I'm gonna try and help you out buddy. If you post anything positive about Deeproot or JPoop you will get down voted. If you post anything negative about Deeproot or JPoop you might get up voted. If you are in business, or are going to go into business with JPoop No one can help you. You will fail and lose money. Hope this helps...

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#25633 2 years ago
 
BLY

MrBally

Pinside member

US Paradise, NV

12y 141K 13,926 22 1

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

I get it that it WAS A SCAM! All I am saying is many things could of been different with the right people. Not Robert being a dictator & a criminal. Like I have said no production was done. If JPOP & his games were finished & produced way back at the start. Maybe Deeproot Pinball would have survived, but not with all the bullshit lies Robert said & did over the years. The stupid Video division was the big money drain with all the employees. Big offices were another big drain, & add on the pinball staff who you need for a pinball company.

FB_IMG_1631119908301 (resized).jpgFB_IMG_1631119908301 (resized).jpg
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#25634 2 years ago
 
NAD

Bublehead

Pinside member

US San Tan Valley, AZ

8y 92,300 4,441 10

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

many things could of been different

Yes, Up could have been down, left could have been right, and black could have been white... yes, and Jpop could have been a easily managed visionary table designer, and RM could have been a more honest and effective CEO. However, none of this is true, will ever be true, nor will it ever come to be true....

Let me tell you a joke...

So, GWJ calls his local pinball distributor...

"Hello, North Midwest distributing, how can we help you?"

GWJ- "Yes, I would like to order a Radio Active Zombie Adventureland pinball machine..."

"I am sorry sir we don't carry deeproot, they went out of business..."

GWJ- "Oh, ok, well then let me order a RAZA machine..."

"Sir, we do not carry deeproot products, they are no longer in the industry, it was a scam..."

GWJ- "Ah, well then I guess how about Alice in Wonderland or Food Truck...."

"Sir, can you spell 'pop' like in John Popadiuk?"

GWJ- "Sure, P-O-P"

"Ok, can you spell 'rob' as in Robert Meuller?"

GWJ- "yes, R-O-B"

"Good, now can you spell 'fuck' like in deeproot?"

GWJ- "There ain't no 'fuck' in deeproot"

"And that is what we have been trying to tell you for the last 20 pages..."

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#25635 2 years ago
 
VIC

PinMonk

Pin Monk

9y 183K 30,178 16

Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

I thought the saying was: "if onlys and buts were candies and nuts, then everyday would be Erntedankfest."

Is that like Festivus?

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#25636 2 years ago
 
-

27dnast

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 140K 8,597

Breaking news...

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Like I have said no production was done.

That said, they did produce two prototypes that the crew at DR seemed more than happy to prop up, despite the fact they must have known that the company didn't have anything close to what it needed to manufacture competent, arcade quality machines.

Unfortunately, @greatwichjohn, this isn't a could-a been should-a been situation. It's a disgrace, is what it is.

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#25637 2 years ago
 
BBJ

blueberryjohnson

Pinside+ Frequent

US Honolulu, HI

8y 101K 4,698 1

Remember when it was announced that Paul Faris joined deeproot? Whatever happened with that?

OP
Quoted from DennisNordman:

I’m happy to announce that Paul Faris has joined the deeproot pinball team. Paul is legendary in the pinball world for his hand-painted backglasses. Paul will be working on several games, but I’m most excited to be working with him on my original theme pinball game. It’s a theme that we are both passionate about, and I think the pinball world will love it. I’ve had the good fortune to work with many of the great pinball artists including Tony Ramunni, Pat McMahan, Kevin O’Connor, John Youssi, and Greg Freres. Now, Paul will do a hand painted backglass for my deeproot game. I want to thank Robert for bringing him on board, and for allowing me to do one of my dream themes for pinball.

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#25638 2 years ago
 
JWG

greatwichjohn

Great Pinball

CA Halifax, NS

11y 100K 4,532

When are more employees going to provide more info & pictures. You would of thought more info would of leaked out by now.

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#25639 2 years ago
 
JSS

JStoltz

Pinside member

6y 62,050 822 4

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

When are more employees going to provide more info & pictures. You would of thought more info would of leaked out by now.

Are you viewing this thread from the shiny side of a one way mirror?

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#25640 2 years ago
 
HAZ

hank527

Pinside+ Addict

13y 128K 5,422 248

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

When are more employees going to provide more info & pictures. You would of thought more info would of leaked out by now.

Many probably moved on and could care less about pinball.

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#25641 2 years ago
 
EDG

Richthofen

Pinside member

11y 75,800 2,695

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

When are more employees going to provide more info & pictures. You would of thought more info would of leaked out by now.

Robert is charged by the SEC but he still retains control of the deeproot funds. I highly doubt anyone wants to risk being sued by him. Leaks will come after it’s clear he’s unable to sue anyone

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#25642 2 years ago
 
MBW

mbwalker

Pinside+ Frequent

7y 135K 5,325 9

Quoted from Richthofen:

Robert is charged by the SEC but he still retains control of the deeproot funds. I highly doubt anyone wants to risk being sued by him. Leaks will come after it’s clear he’s unable to sue anyone

Just speculating, the 575 fund people will likely do a class action suit?

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#25643 2 years ago
 
???

GetTheJackpot

Pinside member

10y 34,900 191

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

I get it that it WAS A SCAM! All I am saying is many things could of been different with the right people. Not Robert being a dictator & a criminal. Like I have said no production was done. If JPOP & his games were finished & produced way back at the start. Maybe Deeproot Pinball would have survived, but not with all the bullshit lies Robert said & did over the years. The stupid Video division was the big money drain with all the employees. Big offices were another big drain, & add on the pinball staff who you need for a pinball company.

The doobies must be incredible where you live.

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#25644 2 years ago
 
RCD

Drewscruis

Pinside member

US Hamburg Usa, NY

11y 49,300 632 32

So... when do we get a photo of Bobby doing the perp walk?

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#25645 2 years ago
 
???

woodworker

Inactive member

Unknown

11y 43,550 245

I used this template before, but I just couldn't help myself...

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

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#25646 2 years ago
 
JIM

Dkjimbo

Pinside member

US Matthews, NC

8y 55,800 1,110 3 33

Do we think we will ever see another DeepRoot update or statement from RM or do we think this will now just play out in court and we will get all further updates there? I mean what does RM even say at this point now that he’s been exposed and humiliated (rightfully so?)

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#25647 2 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,431

Quoted from Dkjimbo:

Do we think we will ever see another DeepRoot update or statement from RM or do we think this will now just play out in court and we will get all further updates there? I mean what does RM even say at this point now that he’s been exposed and humiliated (rightfully so?)

I’m looking forward to the court hearing even if it’s just Robert pleading the fifth

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#25648 2 years ago
 
DHF

fosaisu

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 142K 10,341

Quoted from Dkjimbo:

Do we think we will ever see another DeepRoot update or statement from RM or do we think this will now just play out in court and we will get all further updates there?

If RM is listening to his lawyers you won’t hear peep from him until any and all litigation is resolved (which will probably take years). RM is a loudmouth dumb dumb so it’s not impossible, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

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#25649 2 years ago
 
AXE

YeOldPinPlayer

Inactive member

Unknown

8y 111K 6,454 4 12

Quoted from Dkjimbo:

Do we think we will ever see another DeepRoot update or statement from RM or do we think this will now just play out in court and we will get all further updates there? I mean what does RM even say at this point now that he’s been exposed and humiliated (rightfully so?)

Do you really think RM looks at it as being "exposed and humiliated"? I don't. I think he's going to work at his investment companies explaining to anyone who presses him on it that he's unjustly accused by people who don't understand how his successful fund management strategies are good for all his investors and would have paid off in time. Probably blaming anyone or anything convenient for any setbacks.

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#25650 2 years ago
 
DSS

Haymaker

Pinside member

US Rockford, IL

9y 125K 6,511 15 16

Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Do you really think RM looks at it as being "exposed and humiliated"? I don't. I think he's going to work at his investment companies explaining to anyone who presses him on it that he's unjustly accused by people who don't understand how his successful fund management strategies are good for all his investors and would have paid off in time. Probably blaming anyone or anything convenient for any setbacks.

Exactly. Hes not the type of guy to admit his own failures or take accountability for his actions. It'll always be somebody elses fault, bad luck, not enough time, or insert your own sad excuse here. He had (has) delusions of grandeur and that ain't going away

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