(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

1 year ago



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There are 2792 posts in this topic. You are on page 50 of 56.
#2451 39 days ago
Quoted from Coyote:

So, no "5 days" at TPF this year?

No. They announced back in Nov/Dec that it was being delayed.

#2452 38 days ago

Kaneda..

#2453 38 days ago
Quoted from Coyote:

So, no "5 days" at TPF this year?

That was cancelled at the beginning of the year already.

#2454 38 days ago

Ah! I missed that then. Okay!

#2455 38 days ago

Kanedacast

#2456 38 days ago

Sicne it was expicetely said that the 5 days of deeproot don't have to be 5 consecutive days before the final reveal on day 5/ TPF (wich is cancelled) I'd REALLY like deeproot to have their first day of deeproot at TPF. - It wouldn't be contradictory.

#2457 38 days ago
Quoted from pin2d:

For those unfamiliar with deeproot Pinball, here is a timeline for the company:
Early 2015
deeproot Tech starts its pinball division – deeproot Pinball. They contact several pinball designers and manufacturers.
Summer 2015
The deeproot team decides to shelve the pinball project until a later date.
October 2016
deeproot begins implementing their internal plan of action to start down the road to become a pinball manufacturer.
Late 2016 – 2017
deeproot begins reaching out to several pinball designers. After spending significant time weighing pros and cons, deeproot decides that pinball designer John Popadiuk (“JPop”) is the best option available. They decided this knowing there would be backlash from some in the pinball community, and knowing they would need to address John’s past mistakes with Zidware.
June 2017
deeproot begins to move forward with their plan to deal with JPop’s past and provide help to Zidware customers.
Early September 2017
Plaintiffs of the lawsuit and deeproot agree to terms on a settlement. This settlement with the Plaintiffs will be essentially the same for all other former customers of Zidware. (Details of the settlement will be revealed soon.)
September 14th, 2017
It is discovered on deeproot’s website that John Popadiuk is part of their team with the title Lead Game Development. Confidential terms of the settlement are leaked to podcasters and others in the pinball community. A thread is started on Pinside.com to inform many in the pinball community that JPop has resurfaced and is working with deeproot Pinball. Notably, Jeremy Packer (aka Zombie Yeti) makes a post which includes: “I have been asked to sign over all copyrights free and clear as if I was fully compensated. I simply refuse.” Podcasters, most notably Chris Kooluris of Kaneda’s Pinball Podcast, released podcasts with harsh criticism of deeproot. All of this, of course, caused severe negative reaction to deeproot since John Popadiuk still owed many Zidware customers refunds or machines.
September 18th, 2017
This Week in Pinball speaks to Robert Mueller, the man behind deeproot Tech, and posts “A Conversation with Deeproot“. Robert shares:
- deeproot plans to make Zidware customers whole
- Robert: “Jpop is someone that needs to be managed”
- deeproot does not plan to take any pre-order money or deposits for their machines
- deeproot may change the title or tweak the layout of John’s already designed games
- Robert believes he can build machines in a different and better way than other manufacturers are doing currently
- deeproot hopes to make a public announcement in the coming weeks, then go dark for a long time until everything is ready
October 13th, 2017
deeproot retracts its settlement offer to the Plaintiffs for reasons that will be disclosed at a later date.
October 21st, 2017
Robert Mueller and Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) speak for the first time. Jeremy verbally agrees to sign over the rights to the games in exchange for undisclosed consideration.

Post #10 page 1....
Maybe these "5 days of deeproot" is like a biblical thing, each day is a year?
Games coming by 2020 TPF

#2458 38 days ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

The correct answer is TZ, WIJ, STTNG, DM, RS, JD, Roseanne Barr, Popeye

Ok, I can see you not liking Popeye but IJ and STTNG are 2 games I sold and I rarely sell games. They are just annoying to me.

-4
#2459 38 days ago

Cash is obviously an issue here with Deeproot or there would be updates by now. They'll never admit to it but it is. Maybe the curse of Jpop continues....the guy has the Anti-Midas Touch! I hate to say it but I think these guys are done before it even began. I feel bad for Dennis Nordman.

#2460 38 days ago

Just popeyeing in underated game that I would love to see on the 4th day of deeproot. What are the chances?

#2461 38 days ago
Quoted from Chicoman:

Cash is obviously an issue here with Deeproot or there would be updates by now. They'll never admit to it but it is. Maybe the curse of Jpop continues....the guy has the Anti-Midas Touch! I hate to say it but I think these guys are done before it even began. I feel bad for Dennis Nordman.

Or possibly as they mention they are not done yet?

#2462 38 days ago

Or maybe Robert took peoples advice when they said "More work, less big talk and hyperbole".

#2464 38 days ago
Quoted from Chicoman:

Maybe the curse of Jpop continues....the guy has the Anti-Midas Touch!

Jpop's Reality Distortion Field is very powerful. Unlike Steve Jobs who used it to get the impossible out of people, Jpop uses it to light money on fire.

And right now, no matter what way you want to spin things, there is a whole lot of money being lit on fire at DR. Especially now with the TPF launch out the window, so they are into borrowed time.

#2465 38 days ago

In my opinion, Deeproot ceases to exist until they have a product available for purchase. Not holding my breath.

#2466 38 days ago
Quoted from frolic:

there is a whole lot of money being lit on fire at DR

Not necessarily agreeing with you with the rest but yes, with an expected launch this week that had to be blown off and not having even an estimate for the new launch, there's whole lot of expenses and no income for a whole while longer. - I hope they can shoulder that.

#2467 38 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Not necessarily agreeing with you with the rest but yes, with an expected launch this week that had to be blown off and not having even an estimate for the new launch, there's whole lot of expenses and no income for a whole while longer. - I hope they can shoulder that.

You guys aren’t really still thinking this is a real company are you ?

#2468 38 days ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

You guys aren’t really still thinking this is a real company are you ?

It's endearing in some strange way.

#2469 38 days ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

You guys aren’t really still thinking this is a real company are you ?

#2470 37 days ago

The lack of real intel coming from DR just makes people uneasy... Like the calm before a storm, or the crickets of an Apple product reveal. If I was a detective really sleuthing out DR right now, I would be standing knee deep in their garbage dumpster every night, or dialing up the TPF organizers and asking surreptitiously just how much booth space DR has paid for. Or call around and figure out which DR designers are going to TPF by impersonating their PA’s (illegal!)

Or we wait a week.

#2471 37 days ago

Lol just had a round of Dangerfield jokes at work. I hope this isn’t a mess, I want to believe ...

#2472 37 days ago
Quoted from lancestorm:

Which means you do care, at least a little

"I couldn't care less" means that I do not care at all. Only (some) Americans do not understand this.

#2473 37 days ago
Quoted from insx:

"I couldn't care less" means that I do not care at all. Only (some) Americans do not understand this.

While I agree with this from a logical perspective, idioms simply don’t seem to require logic. Less logical would be to ignore the (clearly understood) intent of the phrase.

#2474 37 days ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

You guys aren’t really still thinking this is a real company are you ?

If it weren't a real company, you would think a lot of the pinball design veterans working for them would have jumped ship by now.

#2475 37 days ago
Quoted from brucipher:

If it weren't a real company, you would think a lot of the pinball design veterans working for them would have jumped ship by now.

These veterans were unemployed till DR came knocking, so as long as they are getting paid why would they jump ship?

The fact that they are still getting paid is promising. But wouldn't say it's a guarantee we'll ever see any pins.

#2476 37 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

These veterans were unemployed till DR came knocking, so as long as they are getting paid why would they jump ship?
The fact that they are still getting paid is promising. But wouldn't say it's a guarantee we'll ever see any pins.

Any pins? Robert told us we would see more pins released from DR in one year than have ever been produced before. Has that statement been officially walked back yet?

#2477 37 days ago

Until they have something to show, Deeproot is doing exactly what they should be doing, staying quiet.

#2478 37 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

These veterans were unemployed till DR came knocking, so as long as they are getting paid why would they jump ship?

In the context of the discussion... 'getting paid' is the exact retort to 'is this a real company?' question. They are still employed, they presumably are still getting paid, so to the question of 'is it a real company' -- that suggests yes.

What the outcome will be... stay tuned

#2479 37 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Has that statement been officially walked back yet?

That statement had such a hyperbolic ballistic trajectory, it should have come with a warhead to deliver it’s message. Anyone who has not taken DR claims as marketing hyperbole must have missed that definition in class, because that statement is what should be in the dictionary under examples of it.

Remember, no matter what happens, DR is going to say “Don’t worry, ladies and gentlemen, it’s all part of the show” because thats what P.T. Barnum would have said.

#2480 37 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Any pins? Robert told us we would see more pins released from DR in one year than have ever been produced before. Has that statement been officially walked back yet?

No pinball is still easy and they'll still put out more games in a year than has ever happened. That's still the current info I believe.

#2481 37 days ago

Hmmmmmm, 3 MG's for sale this week alone...

Me thinks the rumor mill may know something after all...

#2482 37 days ago
Quoted from brucipher:

If it weren't a real company, you would think a lot of the pinball design veterans working for them would have jumped ship by now.

Nordman left Heighway when they announced at the show they were ready to go into production in what.. a month? when the whitewood was still in design.

Of course there's a difference between promising the world to customers, and working for deeproot who at least admitted early on that they weren't ready to reveal at TPF like they had hoped. Still, pinball manufacturing in general is not very stable and designers can sense when things aren't going well.

#2483 37 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

'getting paid' is the exact retort to 'is this a real company?

Not to quibble, but that is very close but not quite right, imo. I would agree with you, but only if the payments continue.

I define “real company” to mean that revenue is generated to cover all costs on a continuing basis. DR, without a transparent means of revenue generation, - and for a pinball manufacturing company, that means with no machines to sell yet -, they have not risen up to the moniker of “real company”, but are classified as a “startup” imo. Are they incorporated? Don’t know personally, but probably. Are they paying their employees? Don’t know, but most likely they are. Are they paying all the bills? Don’t know. Are they selling any machines? That we do know, and “Not yet” is the answer.

So imo, no, not a real company yet, but they are definitely a startup.

#2484 37 days ago
Quoted from Grandnational007:

Hmmmmmm, 3 MG's for sale this week alone...
Me thinks the rumor mill may know something after all...

With a new working MG due to come out this year or next, why wouldn't anyone sell a non working super expensive MG?!

The sweet spot for selling was last year though.

#2485 37 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

These veterans were unemployed till DR came knocking, so as long as they are getting paid why would they jump ship?
The fact that they are still getting paid is promising. But wouldn't say it's a guarantee we'll ever see any pins.

David Thiel didn't seem to need the job there...

#2486 37 days ago
Quoted from brucipher:

David Thiel didn't seem to need the job there...

Oh my bad.

Real company!

#2487 37 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Oh my bad.
Real company!

I am not defending deeproot. Until they start shipping games they are just a bunch of hot air. It just seems to me they have their shit together way more than any of the other startups over the last several years. No need to be a dick.

#2488 37 days ago

Let's just all agree that we want to see/ hear SOMETHING from Deeproot this TPF.

#2489 37 days ago
Quoted from brucipher:

I am not defending deeproot. Until they start shipping games they are just a bunch of hot air. It just seems to me they have their shit together way more than any of the other startups over the last several years. No need to be a dick.

They hired a bunch of old guys who were on the street, and threw a lot of money around.

I have no idea if they'll ever put any games out, but I don't see why you think they "have their shit together."

They've already starting the "talk big, postpone big" routine we are used to half a dozen times over from the new companies. Clearly it's a wait and see but don't see why you think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

#2490 37 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Clearly it's a wait and see but don't see why you think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Because at this point they have not taken consumers money, so why not give them the benefit of the doubt. If nothing ever shows up, oh well, nobody loses, and on top of that some old guys collected some paychecks.

#2491 37 days ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Because at this point they have not taken consumers money, so why not give them the benefit of the doubt. If nothing ever shows up, oh well, nobody loses, and on top of that some old guys collected some paychecks.

Either they'll put out some pins, or it'll turn into a disaster like it always does. My personal doubt benefiting doesn't really matter one way or the other.

They've earned nothing as far as I'm concerned but that's just my opinion.

#2492 37 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Either they'll put out some pins, or it'll turn into a disaster like it always does. My personal doubt benefiting doesn't really matter one way or the other.
They've earned nothing as far as I'm concerned but that's just my opinion.

Fair enough...I respect your opinion.

#2493 37 days ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Because at this point they have not taken consumers money, so why not give them the benefit of the doubt. If nothing ever shows up, oh well, nobody loses, and on top of that some old guys collected some paychecks.

The "losers" will be confined to the investors.

I don't know if they can sell enough pins to ever cover the cash burn but I'd like to see it happen.

#2494 37 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The "losers" will be confined to the investors.

Yeah, and at least they will be real investors in the company, not JPop purchaser "investors".

10
#2495 37 days ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Because at this point they have not taken consumers money, so why not give them the benefit of the doubt. If nothing ever shows up, oh well, nobody loses, and on top of that some old guys collected some paychecks.

Except Steve Bowden gave up his teaching career to move to texas and go work for DR. This is the part that worries me. People like to think "What's the harm in Andrew Heighway/JPOP/etc blowing money", but there's always collateral damage. AppleJuice not getting paid for coding work. The game designer for Heighway who was unpaid and basically made broke. There's always collateral damage when you look behind the big personalities. When DR fails, it will mess over a lot of people, like the investors in Robert's funds, which will then make it harder for pinball manufacturers in the future to raise capital.

I almost immediately thought this was a fraud because THEY ARE SPONSORING EVENTS. A company with zero cash flow and nothing but expenses is sponsoring Pinburgh and otherwise spending money on shit they shouldn't. Reminded me of Dutch Pinball throwing a boozy party with hired models. Pinball is a low margin item, hand manufactured in the USA where labor is notoriously expensive. IMHO If you want to be successful as a pinball manufacturer you need to count every penny to be profitable, especially in the early stages where you have to outlay large expenses (equipment, leases, employees, 1 year lead time on product development) without selling anything just yet. Sponsoring events to 'build brand awareness' is the kind of marketing bullshit people think you need, but let's face it: you can post on pinside you're making a game and pinside will shower you with attention until the games come out.

Oh, and then don't even get me started on taking on JPOP's liabilities and former customers. How that would ever be a profitable move is beyond me.

#2496 37 days ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

Except Steve Bowden gave up his teaching career to move to texas and go work for DR. This is the part that worries me. People like to think "What's the harm in Andrew Heighway/JPOP/etc blowing money", but there's always collateral damage. AppleJuice not getting paid for coding work. The game designer for Heighway who was unpaid and basically made broke. There's always collateral damage when you look behind the big personalities. When DR fails, it will mess over a lot of people, like the investors in Robert's funds, which will then make it harder for pinball manufacturers in the future to raise capital.
I almost immediately thought this was a fraud because THEY ARE SPONSORING EVENTS. A company with zero cash flow and nothing but expenses is sponsoring Pinburgh and otherwise spending money on shit they shouldn't. Reminded me of Dutch Pinball throwing a boozy party with hired models. Pinball is a low margin item, hand manufactured in the USA where labor is notoriously expensive. IMHO If you want to be successful as a pinball manufacturer you need to count every penny to be profitable, especially in the early stages where you have to outlay large expenses (equipment, leases, employees, 1 year lead time on product development) without selling anything just yet. Sponsoring events to 'build brand awareness' is the kind of marketing bullshit people think you need, but let's face it: you can post on pinside you're making a game and pinside will shower you with attention until the games come out.
Oh, and then don't even get me started on taking on JPOP's liabilities and former customers. How that would ever be a profitable move is beyond me.

Remember, the founder’s main business is allegedly in selling questionable insurance products, I am sure he knows exactly what he’s doing. It just may not be related to pinball

#2497 37 days ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

Except Steve Bowden gave up his teaching career to move to texas and go work for DR. This is the part that worries me. People like to think "What's the harm in Andrew Heighway/JPOP/etc blowing money", but there's always collateral damage. AppleJuice not getting paid for coding work. The game designer for Heighway who was unpaid and basically made broke. There's always collateral damage when you look behind the big personalities. When DR fails, it will mess over a lot of people, like the investors in Robert's funds, which will then make it harder for pinball manufacturers in the future to raise capital.

Sure, you are right, there will be collateral damage, but any of these pinball veterans (whether they have worked in pinball before, or have been a part of and followed the pinball community for the last 5 years or so) should know to do their homework on a new pinball startup. I feel for the likes of AppleJuice and the Heighway guy, but we know those stories now, and anyone accepting a job with a pinball startup have lessons they should have learned. There is a risk involved with taking employment with any startup, regardless of industry. Again, I am not a cheerleader for deeproot. They have a lot to prove and could very well fail just like the many other recent pinball startups. But at least they are not scamming consumers out of their money like pretty much every other recent startup that failed.

#2498 37 days ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Sure, you are right, there will be collateral damage, but any of these pinball veterans (whether they have worked in pinball before, or have been a part of and followed the pinball community for the last 5 years or so) should know to do their homework on a new pinball startup. I feel for the likes of AppleJuice and the Heighway guy, but we know those stories now, and anyone accepting a job with a pinball startup have lessons they should have learned. There is a risk involved with taking employment with any startup, regardless of industry. Again, I am not a cheerleader for deeproot. They have a lot to prove and could very well fail just like the many other recent pinball startups. But at least they are not scamming consumers out of their money like pretty much every other recent startup that failed.

Here’s to hoping they follow through! It’s hard without anything to look at whatsoever. Even JPop had art by this time ..

#2499 37 days ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

THEY ARE SPONSORING EVENTS. A company with zero cash flow and nothing but expenses is sponsoring Pinburgh and otherwise spending money on shit they shouldn't.

Reminds me of a scene from Silicon Valley where a receptionist is offering the boys some fancy coconut water while they waited for a meeting, and his response was "I get it, you're funded."

Tech, however, can scale to massive size which is the bet everyone makes on it. Pinball manufacturing, well, we have a pretty good grasp of the potential of that and endless cash burn is not a recipe for success.

#2500 36 days ago
Quoted from frolic:

endless cash burn is not a recipe for success.

Unless you have endless cash...

My favorite pinball daydream has always been some well connected money man with deep pockets gets hooked on pinball, and the only way to satisfy his ravenous pinball appetite is to buy Stern, or JJP, or CGC and dump obscene ammounts of money into them and start pumping out titles and machines like back to back.

Well, right now, DR is the closest thing going to that pipe dream. I am wondering, though, does DR’s story end in success, failure, or with people behind bars?

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