Quoted from Stuieb84:Interesting video from cary hardy
"Interesting" and "Cary Hardy" in the same sentence. Now THERE'S something you don't see very often. 
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Quoted from thechakapakuni:Do you think Robert meant SEC certification when he said UL?
It's CEC, and it still has to go through a certification process, it's just not as stringent. Most of the cheap electrical stuff you buy from walmart is CEC.
Halifax, NS
FCC is a smokescreen not likely anything to do with pinball production hold up. JPOP was not the multimillion dollar problem with Deeproot Pinball. If anything is learned from this is you have to have Real Manufacturing in place to survive. Stop dreaming & start making games. Robert was all over the place with crazy ideas & no game plan. How hard is it to make a production line. All the info is out there even the failed Dutch Pinball contractor info which we likely were not told the real problems.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:JPOP was not the multimillion dollar problem with Deeproot Pinball.
giphy.gifROBERT MUELLER COULD HAVE BOUGHT ALL 4,850 STERN LIMITED EDITION PINBALL MACHINES MADE SINCE MUNSTERS WITH THE MONEY HE WASTED ON DEEPROOT PINBALL!
So, If I am reading the information from the SEC correctly, Robert Mueller spent 48 million dollars of the 58 million dollars in the Deeproot funds on Pinball and personal expenses. That's $48,000,000. Lets do some fun math on what else this money could have bought...
The Mandalorian LE, 750 made times $9,200 MSRP = $6,900,000
Led Zeppelin LE, 500 made times $9,200 MSRP= $4,600,000
Avengers LE, 500 made times $9,200 MSRP= $4,600,000
TMNT LE, 500 made times $9,100 MSRP= $4,550,000
Stranger Things LE, 500 made times $9,100 MSRP= $4,550,000
Elvira LE, 400 made times $9,600 MSRP= $3,840,000
JP LE, 500 made times $9,000 MSRP= $4,500,000
BKSOR LE, 600 made times $9,000 MSRP= $5,400,000
Munsters LE, 600 made times $9,000 MSRP= $5,400,000
To make things worse, this is not money taken from pre-orders from pinsiders. This is little old lady retirement money that was taken and wasted.
It boggles the mind how much money was spent on Robert's pinball dreams.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:It boggles the mind how much money was spent on Robert's pinball dreams.
But wasn't that money spent on OUR dreams?
He was only trying to give us what we so desperately want: A terrible game with an innovative lockdown bar. And yet, we crucify him for it!!!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:But wasn't that money spent on OUR dreams?
He was only trying to give us what we so desperately want: A terrible game with an innovative lockdown bar. And yet, we crucify him for it!!!
He could have given everyone in this thread games...
Specifically all 1042 pinsiders who have posted on this thread, 4.654 Stern LEs each... I think we will be cutting up the Led Zeppelins to get our "change".
I should have provided clarity when I was giving a suggestion. I would have my brother attorney contact the SEC attorneys and detail the harrassment. If /when indicted, the US Attorney's office needs to be informed. They can/do make things like this a condition of pre trial release.
Everyone has a job in prison Mon thru Fri. He will only be able to spend his own free time in the law library. Inmates can work on torts, their own cases, stuff like that. If he sends out a lawsuit, the prison will know. To stop this crap: Your attorney needs to contact the region in the BOP the inmates resides. Document the harrassment. The region of the BOP will contact the prison and end all harrassment.
The fraudster isn't holding any cards. He has to make an entrance back into society. He has to have real employment. His probation officer will not allow any of this. Pre-trial won't put up with it. BOP won't put up with. And he won't be able to do it during supervised release.
For every action he takes toward someone, there can be an equal if not much greater action we take back at him.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:FCC is a smokescreen not likely anything to do with pinball production hold up. JPOP was not the multimillion dollar problem with Deeproot Pinball. If anything is learned from this is you have to have Real Manufacturing in place to survive. Stop dreaming & start making games. Robert was all over the place with crazy ideas & no game plan. How hard is it to make a production line. All the info is out there even the failed Dutch Pinball contractor info which we likely were not told the real problems.
I feel like it's groundhog day everyday for this guy.
Bill, is that you?
5SUMEYWRVRCUHI5JR3DZJJLDVY (resized).jpgQuoted from CrazyLevi:And yet, we crucify him for it!!!
But- Isn't that what we humans do to our "saviors"? I say this tongue firmly in cheek, because RM wasn't/isn't one. But, yeah, little old lady retirement money stealing to develop a mediocre game with a built in touch sensitive beer can drip tray just might get you crucified...
Quoted from thechakapakuni:Do you think Robert meant SEC certification when he said UL?
I bet the whole UL thing was just a smokescreen. Come on. He already was well aware the SEC was looming by that point in time and he was about to walk the plank. This UL thing was just to buy time just like the PCB lie that Dutch Pinball did a few years back when their whole thing fell off the rails.
Quoted from Stuieb84:Interesting video from cary hardy
Cary Hardy should get toasted for all his videos.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:FCC is a smokescreen not likely anything to do with pinball production hold up. JPOP was not the multimillion dollar problem with Deeproot Pinball. If anything is learned from this is you have to have Real Manufacturing in place to survive. Stop dreaming & start making games. Robert was all over the place with crazy ideas & no game plan. How hard is it to make a production line. All the info is out there even the failed Dutch Pinball contractor info which we likely were not told the real problems.
Quoted from ForceFlow:You can speculate and opine on a forum or chat room all day long, but engaging in discourse is a bit different than actually publishing something; there is (or should be) a slightly higher standard when doing that.[quoted image]
Dude… its not like he was talking about second hand information- the source was the company itself 
Quoted from mbwalker:I've been involved with EMI testing, and I thought the same thing with your earlier post (FCC vs. SEC, being easily misunderstood over a call).
Fcc issue stalling shipping… sure… company shutdown? That’s when your head would have cocked… as huh?
Quoted from greatwichjohn:How hard is it to make a production line.
Not nearly as hard as it is to find qualified people to work that production line.
Please stop saying you need manufacturing- no factory would have ever saved deeproot- which is the point made years ago. You can’t blow tens of millions and recover in any reasonable amount of time. They were never a sustainable program in this market.
Build a factory first?? Uhhh did people forget the heighway debacle already?? Or JJPs money crunches after having a factory but not being able to actually use it?
You don’t need a factory before you have products to build. It will take you at least a year to get your concept baked. You don’t need a factory for prototyping. You need a separate track of people focused on building up your supply chain and manufacturering plan… aiming to align their timeline with your product development. And once in place, you need to keep it FED. If not, you are better off partnering with others who do have fulltime facilities
Quoted from Stuieb84:Interesting video from cary hardy
Phew. Painful.
Wouldn't have been surprised to hear his mother yell, "Cary!! Did you clean your room? Do you want some lunch?? I made your favorite! Grilled cheese with potato chips!"
Quoted from flynnibus:Fcc issue stalling shipping… sure… company shutdown? That’s when your head would have cocked… as huh?
It was, along w/plenty of other red flags. Just commenting on the possible SEC vs. FCC misunderstanding mentioned by TWIP.
Quoted from KerryImming:Not nearly as hard as it is to find qualified people to work that production line.
Meh… its the people that set it up… from steps to qa to training is where the magic is.
The line workers are trained into their tasks from temp agencies all over in this type of work.
It’s the people that actually understand the processes and how to set it up that drive success. The point is to make the work easy. The push for good people is to simply get consistency (and reliable workers who show up and stay!)
Quoted from flynnibus:Please stop saying you need manufacturing- no factory would have ever saved deeproot- which is the point made years ago. You can’t blow tens of millions and recover in any reasonable amount of time. They were never a sustainable program in this market.
Build a factory first?? Uhhh did people forget the heighway debacle already?? Or JJPs money crunches after having a factory but not being able to actually use it?
pasted_image (resized).png
Deeproot:
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from mbwalker:It was, along w/plenty of other red flags. Just commenting on the possible SEC vs. FCC misunderstanding mentioned by TWIP.
And the possibility of a shutdown was part of that same conversation- hence the point it was more than just hearing a name wrong. The wrong name should have also sounded out of place.
But whatever… the lesson for most is there is a lot more said out there then people are actually talking about. It’s always been that way but many are still shocked by it.
Quoted from EternitytoM83:Cary Hardy should get toasted for all his videos.
Ha! It was amusing for sure.
Regardless of whether you were in or out on Deeproot I think most of us wanted them to get games out the door. Maybe a few people truly wanted them to fail. I have not looked at the report but from what others have shared it appears it only names RM for possible charges. Now I would suspect employees probably have been investigated/interviewed to determine if a anyone else knew or was involved in the fraud. This could be very important depending on what defense or deal RM tries to cut and drag others down with him. He could easily claim any number of things such as….Mr. X was the brains behind the whole thing. He assured me we could EASILY build games and put the money back before anyone knew it was gone. I was just a victim with the money to fund it. The money trail may lead to RM but a scheme of this scale probably had at least one other person with knowledge of where the money came from/ where it was going. Very few people in this situation will take the fall alone. I know most of us think how can anyone do this but imagine having a cookie jar with a million dollars in it….you think no one will miss $100. So you take it and nothing happens. So you do it again and again. Then you get greedy and you start taking $1000 at a time and still nothing happens. You get the idea. It’s hard to resist the temptation when it’s at your fingertips and you believe you can pay it back before anyone would know. Will be following to see if more details come out over time and how these allegations play out.
Quoted from 27dnast:Phew. Painful.
Wouldn't have been surprised to hear his mother yell, "Cary!! Did you clean your room? Do you want some lunch?? I made your favorite! Grilled cheese with potato chips!"
Someone want to write up a list of the tidbits of new info he shared?
Quoted from Stuieb84:Interesting video from cary hardy
Great video, Cary just spitting truth and a nice way to end the whole Deeproot saga.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Someone want to write up a list of the tidbits of new info he shared?
he did mention that during his visit:
programmers sitting around
lot of really high end gaming pcs in office
jpop was working on fire and brimstone, barry working on goonies. both were really rough foam mockups with flippers installed but no mechs to make them playable
octo manufacturing was literally 8 harbor freight benches, 2 assemblers per bench that would fully build a complete game from start to finish. this is a VERY inefficient way to build games BTW.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:FCC is a smokescreen not likely anything to do with pinball production hold up. JPOP was not the multimillion dollar problem with Deeproot Pinball. If anything is learned from this is you have to have Real Manufacturing in place to survive. Stop dreaming & start making games. Robert was all over the place with crazy ideas & no game plan. How hard is it to make a production line. All the info is out there even the failed Dutch Pinball contractor info which we likely were not told the real problems.
Yikes.
Quoted from Pickle:Ha! It was amusing for sure.
Regardless of whether you were in or out on Deeproot I think most of us wanted them to get games out the door. Maybe a few people truly wanted them to fail. I have not looked at the report but from what others have shared it appears it only names RM for possible charges. Now I would suspect employees probably have been investigated/interviewed to determine if a anyone else knew or was involved in the fraud. This could be very important depending on what defense or deal RM tries to cut and drag others down with him. He could easily claim any number of things such as….Mr. X was the brains behind the whole thing. He assured me we could EASILY build games and put the money back before anyone knew it was gone. I was just a victim with the money to fund it. The money trail may lead to RM but a scheme of this scale probably had at least one other person with knowledge of where the money came from/ where it was going. Very few people in this situation will take the fall alone. I know most of us think how can anyone do this but imagine having a cookie jar with a million dollars in it….you think no one will miss $100. So you take it and nothing happens. So you do it again and again. Then you get greedy and you start taking $1000 at a time and still nothing happens. You get the idea. It’s hard to resist the temptation when it’s at your fingertips and you believe you can pay it back before anyone would know. Will be following to see if more details come out over time and how these allegations play out.
I’m not buying that Robert maybe started taking from the pickle jar and grew emboldened to empty it out. Because Robert planned from the beginning to be paid. Salary $1.6M and personal expenses of $1.4M means Robert was taking and spending $800k a year on his family, and that is $68k each month. Compare that with your own paycheck and you’ll see Robert lived a very extravagant lifestyle beginning in 2016 and while he was spending $60M of other people’s money. The missing funds didn’t creep up on Robert one day, the CON began BEFORE the first dollar was stolen and lasted until the last dollar was spent.
deeproot epitaph - We almost made more pinball machines in one year, than all the Other manufacturers combined.
God damn deeproot. First John steals my Bible Adventures idea (creationpinball.org) then Robert steals it and gives it the worst possible name imaginable.
In a way I almost wish they had made it just to see how badly they fuck it up.
Quoted from toyotaboy:octo manufacturing was literally 8 harbor freight benches, 2 assemblers per bench that would fully build a complete game from start to finish. this is a VERY inefficient way to build games BTW.
Could the origin of this be from John "Me & Ben will come to your house and build your machine" Popaduik?
Seems like it's the same thing.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:JPOP could be managed in the future. You would have to set short term goals & make sure he stays focused. After all the failures he has had since the glory days finishing with the closing of WMS. You would think that he will have to drastically change & take a lower job to move forward. He has some good ideas, along with wacky & poor ones. That is why he has continued dreaming the last 20 years.
There is likely some good that will come out of this failure with Deeproot. Bad to throw people under the bus when you are just hoping for a paying job. Lots of talented people that hopefully we will see what they were working on.
All new starts & even the big players can go under. Pinball Manufacturing is HARD, so is getting good financial backing.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Yes JPOP can still be managed, & will likely move on to more pinball work. He should be a freelance pinball dreamer, & designer. But that is all, he needs a team to get games built.
People know what you need to have production to actually get games out the door. Have good relations with parts vendors, & contractors that do the bulk of a real build. That was the problem with Deeproot, no production in place & piss off most in that parts side of the business. The first thing you would do from day one is find a local cabinet or woodworking shop to build your cabinets & do your playfield manufacturing. Pay your vendors & staff properly!
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Ben your nightmare will likely continue along with others that want JPOP to go away. Like I have said he will likely find a new home & drive you crazy! JPOP will need tight supervision, & monitoring for goal milestones going forward. He will be part of a team, & definitely Not A Leader towards pinball production. If anything is wrangled out of Deeproot liquidation, it may or may not be used. The new company will have investors that Know The Risks of investing in a new pinball manufacturing business. No one is going to come out & think they are going to be a major player. I continue to state the new players are looking to start similar to the first days of Spooky to where they are now. There are going to be more players in the marketplace in 2022. Greed will lead to this with prices going up way above the BOM. There is lots of room for a number of companies with fresh ideas.
The new Stern idea of promoting location play with rewards will lead others to do the same. Time to move ahead with more stuff & innovations.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Looks to be more of a factory minus any production line for Deeproot Pinball. It would be great if pictures are shown over the years of the factory. Looks like Robert can use a bunch of money that was spent over the years as part of a out towards failure. Even quad or octo manufacturing might get people away from line manufacturing. Same with the animation studio since most pinball games have displays for everything. Also throw in the few refunds & trying to do some scheme towards Zidware customers.
As for JPOP maybe he was smart & took a vacation. Funny how so much focus is on him, & no one seems to know where he is. It will upset the mob when he lands on his feet somewhere doing more pinball work.
But since JPOP took peoples money with Zidware, he must be the #1 reason Deeproot Pinball FAILED. History likes to repeat itself. Lots of info posted for people to decide if they want to roll the dice on a deposit or more on a pinball machine not in their possession. I rolled the dice twice with Jack, could lost everything (second game I almost did). Had my brand new WOZ out of the box crap out at the show. They got a part from the game next to it at the show so the distributors pin was just a display (off).
Finally over all the years going to shows, operating & servicing, producing playfields & backglass, other parts & pioneering uv inkjet playfield production. I applaud all those working in the pinball biz. I truely hope all employees find employment elsewhere quickly.
Finally lucky for me I could not go to Pinball Expo this year & do a seminar on Deeproot Pinball (my thoughts) on how to try to survive & actually make pinball games. Also I have left the Raza thread after the SEC came out. Maybe the constant gloaters should try & refrain themselves.
In all likelihood you won't even respond directly to my following questions, but I am going to post them anyways.
Why do you continue to post you constant, vigilant defense of one of these people, this business, the designs, prototypes, dr, zidware, etc, etc, etc?
What do you hope to gain?
Are you doing this in some attempt at proving your loyalty?
Are you looking to get "pinside famous" (or infamous)?
It is interesting as you appeared to have at one time in the not so distant past as a good community member building repro parts/playfields for some beloved titles. Now you appear to have gone off the deep end in championing some proven failures. It is incredibly odd to say the least.
Even if you truly were trying to get some business venture going with this vague unknown characters, you are simply turning the community against you. The very same community that you would likely hope to sell wares to in the future. Baffling...
Quoted from frolic:Could the origin of this be from John "Me & Ben will come to your house and build your machine" Popaduik?
Seems like it's the same thing.
100% "quad octo" manufacturing are BS John words. I don't buy that he was "managed" there's so much of his crap clearly visible with this sordid affair, right down to the original event having a "linger longer" scheduled.
Quoted from toyotaboy:he did mention that during his visit:
programmers sitting around
lot of really high end gaming pcs in office
jpop was working on fire and brimstone, barry working on goonies. both were really rough foam mockups with flippers installed but no mechs to make them playable
octo manufacturing was literally 8 harbor freight benches, 2 assemblers per bench that would fully build a complete game from start to finish. this is a VERY inefficient way to build games BTW.
New info is located around the middle of the video. Couple other things mentioned:
Raza topper (previously mentioned as different than what was publicly revealed) had a moving rollercoaster that was pretty cool
Idea for middle of goonies was a coin pusher mech (though mech hadn't been built)
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:New info is located around the middle of the video. Couple other things mentioned:
Raza topper (previously mentioned as different than what was publicly revealed) had a moving rollercoaster that was pretty cool
Idea for middle of goonies was a coin pusher mech (though mech hadn't been built)
yea im guessing a roller coaster was probably built from an existing toy kit, and the idea of programming it to move with the storyline of the game was cost prohibitive.
i like coin pushers, but the idea of having one in the middle of a playfield (which also doesn't quite relate to the goonies movie) seems like a bad choice. a goonies pinball needs a pirate ship for sure, a waterslide, maybe an organ with a section of playfield that breaks away.
Quoted from toyotaboy:(which also doesn't quite relate to the goonies movie)
piles of treasure/gold/coins/etc that you try to get - very much goonies.
My wife ordered a new food/recipe service without telling me and a box showed up yesterday. It was sitting in our driveway.
I brought it in the house. I didn't open it. I had grave concerns.
What if we opened it and there was just a box of various grocery items with no common relation to each other and no way to form any type of edible meal with such items?
What if she paid for a full years' worth of this service?
What if there was a note that someone would be coming to our house to cook the meal for us?
And so on.....
Well, our fears were allayed. RM is NOT getting into the grocery business. We enjoyed a delicious meal last night from our hungryroot box.
IMG_1022 (resized).jpgQuoted from flynnibus:piles of treasure/gold/coins/etc that you try to get - very much goonies.
i get the gold coins on the ship (maybe also the wishing well), but coin pusher? there were more than coins too, it was pearls and gems. i suppose i shouldnt judge unless i saw barry's vision. maybe "coin pusher" is a loose term to describe the mech but didnt look anything like a coin pusher redemption game.
Quoted from toyotaboy:i get the gold coins on the ship (maybe also the wishing well), but coin pusher? there were more than coins too, it was pearls and gems. i suppose i shouldnt judge unless i saw barry's vision. maybe "coin pusher" is a loose term to describe the mech but didnt look anything like a coin pusher redemption game.
what if it were the congo mech.. but instead of bashing the ball, it hulk smashed treasure into your loot bin 
Quoted from toyotaboy:a goonies pinball needs a pirate ship for sure, a waterslide, maybe an organ with a section of playfield that breaks away.
Don't forget the ball-save shoutout, "Goonies never say die!" as the ball is auto-plunged back into play.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Perhaps to pay tribute to a major creditor and Robert's business ethics it was a cointaker?
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:I’m not buying that Robert maybe started taking from the pickle jar and grew emboldened to empty it out. Because Robert planned from the beginning to be paid. Salary $1.6M and personal expenses of $1.4M means Robert was taking and spending $800k a year on his family, and that is $68k each month. Compare that with your own paycheck and you’ll see Robert lived a very extravagant lifestyle beginning in 2016 and while he was spending $60M of other people’s money. The missing funds didn’t creep up on Robert one day, the CON began BEFORE the first dollar was stolen and lasted until the last dollar was spent.
deeproot epitaph - We almost made more pinball machines in one year, than all the Other manufacturers combined.
Maybe the epitaph should be: Deeproot Pinball, we spent more money in one year than all other manufacturers combined. Spending money (especially other people’s) is easy.
Quoted from pookycade:Maybe the epitaph should be: Deeproot Pinball, we spent more money in one year than all other manufacturers combined. Spending money (especially other people’s) is easy.
hah! "Spending other people's money is easy" -- Robert
Quoted from waveman:hah! "Spending other people's money is easy" -- Robert
I’m reminded of how someone earlier in the thread said that most businesses talk about their revenues, not brag about their spending.
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