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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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1 ... 4647484950515253... 672
There are 33,559 posts in this topic. You are on page 49 of 672.
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#2401 5 years ago
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

Quoted from Chalkey:

Them showing you, pinball media, things that they legitimately don't want to get out without an NDA. Then you not reporting anything. The mind reels.

This is really common in the video game industry (among many others).

Why? You show the press your game early so they can be prepared before you launch. You wouldn't want to launch a game and have a three week delay while the press plays your game and then reviews it, would you? No, you want the press to gush about your game just a little before your game launches.

And nobody breaks embargo because they would be blacklisted. NDA not required, just common (business) sense.

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#2402 5 years ago
 
BOZ

ausretrogamer

ausretrogamer

7y 69,050 751 4 9

Quoted from Brijam:

This is really common in the video game industry (among many others).
Why? You show the press your game early so they can be prepared before you launch. You wouldn't want to launch a game and have a three week delay while the press plays your game and then reviews it, would you? No, you want the press to gush about your game just a little before your game launches.
And nobody breaks embargo because they would be blacklisted. NDA not required, just common (business) sense.

Spot on, that’s exactly how it works. We do get PR/companies advising what can be shown or discussed before embargo, but it’s just teaser stuff.

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#2403 5 years ago
 
WUF

wolfemaaan

Inactive member

5y 69,650 1,495

Quoted from BrewinBombers:

Someone who thinks "guerrilla warfare" is racist doesn't know the etymology of the word or understand that guerrilla and gorilla are different words. Not political, just facts.

Ima guerrilla gorilla on a tortilla

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#2404 5 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,104 2

Quoted from Roostking:

Why would you wish deeproot to fail?

I wouldn't. How do you get to such a conclusion?

I'm very much looking forward to what will be revealled.

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#2405 5 years ago
 
DWF

Chalkey

Pinside+ Frequent

US Chesterfield, VA

6y 69,550 2,971 18

Quoted from Brijam:

This is really common in the video game industry (among many others).
Why? You show the press your game early so they can be prepared before you launch. You wouldn't want to launch a game and have a three week delay while the press plays your game and then reviews it, would you? No, you want the press to gush about your game just a little before your game launches.
And nobody breaks embargo because they would be blacklisted. NDA not required, just common (business) sense.

Yeah that makes sense but they havent actually reported anything.

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#2406 5 years ago
 
JJZ

toyotaboy

RandOM Pinball

US Allyn, WA

12y 184K 11,929 3 14

Quoted from Brijam:

If their burn rate is $9mm per year (as was posted a few months ago) and their net profit is $2,500 per pin, their breakeven is about 10 pins a day every day of the year, or about 14 pins a day running their factory 5 days a week with a two week holiday. I don't know. What kind of volume does Stern do per day? JJP? American? Does anyone know that can say?

Stern: From what both Gary and Jody Dankburg have said, they need to make between 55-60 per day, which is roughly 15k games per year.
JJP: If I had to guess, if they are making at best 2,000 games per year, that's barely 8 games per day
AP: no clue, and I doubt they would want to publically say what they make since they are such a young company.

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#2407 5 years ago
 
TEE

Grandnational007

Pinside member

US Berlin, CT

6y 64,300 1,144 12 17 1

Quoted from BrewinBombers:

Someone who thinks "guerrilla warfare" is racist doesn't know the etymology of the word or understand that guerrilla and gorilla are different words. Not political, just facts.

Late to the party, but...

He said "gorilla". Not "guerrilla". "Guer", "go"

capron (resized).jpgcapron (resized).jpg

cap ron2 (resized).jpgcap ron2 (resized).jpg
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#2408 5 years ago
 
JH

NoQuarters

Pinside+ Frequent

8y 124K 3,005 13 2

Casually watching. Could be interesting if they pull it off. Guessing if it does indeed come to fruition, they will have to get rolling sometime in 2019. At some point you need to produce games and have income from sales to be viable. Time marches on. Sitting back and watching but I won't get excited until something happens. Maybe they can do it, but it can't be easy in any way.

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#2409 5 years ago
 
LTS

lancestorm

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

12y 68,300 1,251 2

No one knows, but in that Todd Tuckey PBS program they mentioned an estimate for Stern at 8 - 10k / year. That's 21 - 27 / day.

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#2410 5 years ago
 
2+2

Jgaltr56

Pinside+ Member

9y 76,350 1,200 15

Quoted from BrewinBombers:

Someone who thinks "guerrilla warfare" is racist doesn't know the etymology of the word or understand that guerrilla and gorilla are different words. Not political, just facts.

knowseverything-but-doesnt-understand-sarcasm-luna-8305684 (resized).pngknowseverything-but-doesnt-understand-sarcasm-luna-8305684 (resized).png
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#2411 5 years ago
 
GWG

BrewinBombers

Pinside member

8y 62,050 853 1 44

You're in my spot.

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#2412 5 years ago
 
DAV

adol75

Pinside member

US San Francisco, CA

5y 57,300 2,076 2

Quoted from Brijam:

If their burn rate is $9mm per year (as was posted a few months ago) and their net profit is $2,500 per pin, their breakeven is about 10 pins a day every day of the year, or about 14 pins a day running their factory 5 days a week with a two week holiday.

There is a difference between net profit and gross margin. 2500$ net profit per machine on a 10k retail would actually be a very profitable business I would gladly invest in !

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#2413 5 years ago
 
JLG

JodyG

Ramp-O-Matic

6y 143K 4,610 6 21 1

$2500 profit? What kind of fantasy land are we living in here?

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#2414 5 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,104 2

Quoted from JodyG:

$2500 profit? What kind of fantasy land are we living in here?

Pinball

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#2415 5 years ago
 
WTF

SirScott

Pinside member

US Dearborn, MI

11y 66,800 1,470 24

Quoted from iceman44:

They are currently hiring "assemblers" here in the area so I'm assuming we will find out shortly.

Do they look like either of the two pictures below?

four arms (resized).jpgfour arms (resized).jpg

eight arms (resized).jpgeight arms (resized).jpg

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#2416 5 years ago
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

Quoted from JodyG:

$2500 profit? What kind of fantasy land are we living in here?

Yeah, I was being pretty darn generous. You have to start somewhere. But they have made some claims about getting their costs down, haven't they?

A while back I started on a spreadsheet trying to list every single thing that went into a pinball machine and cross-link retail prices for each item. I didn't get very far, but here it is if anyone wants to help:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1veqfqDSZsp9iFqA54DFxMaYe-xNC3q0zr-I1A5cMpew/edit?usp=sharing

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#2417 5 years ago
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

Quoted from Chalkey:

Yeah that makes sense but they havent actually reported anything.

Exactly! They won't until Deeproot gives the okay.

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#2418 5 years ago
 
???

Sinestro

Inactive member

Unknown

7y 59,400 2,410 1

Quoted from lancestorm:

No one knows, but in that Todd Tuckey PBS program they mentioned an estimate for Stern at 8 - 10k / year. That's 21 - 27 / day.

Love Todd and his videos, but he made more than one factual error in that interview.

Stern has said many times they are doing at least 50 games per day.

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#2419 5 years ago
 
BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

14y 234K 17,615 104

Quoted from Sinestro:

Stern has said many times they are doing at least 50 games per day.

Of course, Stern NEVER exaggerates.

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#2420 5 years ago
 
PAS

vex

Pinside member

CA New Westminster, BC

14y 74,800 1,977 4 8

Stern doesn't promise releases and fail to deliver because their actions are all that is needed. They make no promises and I don't recall stern ever exaggerate, but if ANYONE in the business can deliver 50 machines a day, we all know who is capable and who is not.

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#2421 5 years ago
 
LTS

lancestorm

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

12y 68,300 1,251 2

Physical games sure, completed no

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#2422 5 years ago
 
NAD

Bublehead

Pinside member

US San Tan Valley, AZ

8y 92,300 4,441 10

60AC85A5-9298-4924-9287-DC8AE797B0A9.gif60AC85A5-9298-4924-9287-DC8AE797B0A9.gif
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#2423 5 years ago
 
TMB

Roostking

Pinside+ Addict

10y 106K 8,562 2

Quoted from Bublehead:

Well thats a new one on me... apparently people are confusing a warfare and marketing tactic with a species of primates whose name sounds somewhat similar. I don’t think you can make that mistake in print, but you can never be too sure. But then again, what word could we use instead??

An announcer at a televised tennis match said the player was playing with guerilla tactics or something when attacking the net. Of course it had to be a black player(who was not offended) and the announcer got fired. Stupidity abounds..

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#2424 5 years ago
 
DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

US Boerne, TX

13y 162K 26,877 28 49

Quoted from Brijam:

If their burn rate is $9mm per year (as was posted a few months ago) and their net profit is $2,500 per pin, their breakeven is about 10 pins a day every day of the year, or about 14 pins a day running their factory 5 days a week with a two week holiday.
Of course that $2,500 net is pure speculation on my part.
Anyway, that's for breakeven at the current run rate.
Keep in mind that they may not have to pay their investors back for years if their play is to go public or be acquired.

I don't know. What kind of volume does Stern do per day? JJP? American? Does anyone know that can say?

We know Stern delivered about 10k pins in 2017. Let's say they delivered 11k pins in 2018 at an avg gross margin profit of $2500 ea

That means that they delivered on average about 31 pinball machines PER DAY, every day of the year!

$2500 x 11k pins gives you $27,500,000 to cover fixed overhead and net profit.

They did that with 300+ employees and a manufacturing machine!

You gotta "keep the line running" constantly.

Look at what JJP has to charge just to stay in business. Have they ever turned a profit?

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#2425 5 years ago
 
DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

US Boerne, TX

13y 162K 26,877 28 49

And if Stern sold and delivered 11k pinball machines over 240 work days then that is 45.8 pins per day.

So regardless of what you want to believe, its a shitload of pins on a daily basis.

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#2426 5 years ago
 
JOR

jorro

Inactive member

NL Bermuda Triangle

8y 81,550 2,988 8

Quoted from Bublehead:

Well thats a new one on me... apparently people are confusing a warfare and marketing tactic with a species of primates whose name sounds somewhat similar. I don’t think you can make that mistake in print, but you can never be too sure. But then again, what word could we use instead??

its just Monkey business
Bunch of people going apeshit over nothing

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#2427 5 years ago
 
???

rubberducks

Inactive member

8y 76,150 3,031 1

Quoted from Borygard:

I think you're missing most of the story then Bryan. JPop got American Pinball to build Magic Girl. Deeproot has contracted with many JPop customers to make them whole on their game deposits. Deeproot is likely building Magic Girl, RAZA, AIW, and others, likely with the system JPop developed.
I don't see how anyone could objectively look at everything and conclude he did nothing but simply took a job.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

I don't think he is missing that, but you do appear to be missing the part where JPop completely screwed and took advantage of the-new-to-the-industry and slightly naive AP backers.

Obviously history proved to be different, but when they realised they'd been had re: the joke of a diorama that was the original Houdini, the much more likely outcome was that they quit immediately and went back, chastened, to what they knew. Takes a lot of balls and commitment to come back from a farce like that.

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#2428 5 years ago
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

Quoted from iceman44:

We know Stern delivered about 10k pins in 2017.
They did that with 300+ employees and a manufacturing machine!

That's right, I forgot about how many employees Stern has. How many employees does JJP have?

I wonder how DR is planning on scaling manufacturing? They haven't taken pre-orders so how would you go about gauging how many units you'll need to build? Seems like a major challenge given that they are committed to building in-house.

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#2429 5 years ago
 
WUF

wolfemaaan

Inactive member

5y 69,650 1,495

So any new news on Deeproot Pins? If not, go ahead and return to the normally scheduled argument about how many pins could a pin maker make

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#2430 5 years ago
 
NAD

Bublehead

Pinside member

US San Tan Valley, AZ

8y 92,300 4,441 10

Quoted from wolfemaaan:

how many pins could a pin maker make

If a pin maker could make pins?, They’d make all the pins a pin maker could if a pin maker could make pins. Or something like that.

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#2431 5 years ago
 
???

fanuminski

Pinside member

US Circle Pines, MN

11y 63,050 434 9

Quoted from Bublehead:

If a pin maker could make pins?, They’d make all the pins a pin maker could if a pin maker could make pins. Or something like that.

well then , how many pins would a pin player play if a pin player could play pins?

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#2432 5 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,104 2

Quoted from fanuminski:

well then , how many pins would a pin player play if a pin player could play pins?

All of 'em?

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#2433 5 years ago
 
NAD

Bublehead

Pinside member

US San Tan Valley, AZ

8y 92,300 4,441 10

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

All of 'em?

Good answer.

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#2434 5 years ago
 
WUF

wolfemaaan

Inactive member

5y 69,650 1,495

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#2435 5 years ago
 
MAT

branlon8

Pinside member

DE Köln

9y 54,800 953 15

who’s in for a nature or animal themed pin - maybe woodchucks ?

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#2436 5 years ago
 
LTG

LTG

Pinside member

US Hopkins, MN

12y 191K 56,936 24 7

Quoted from branlon8:

who’s in for a nature or animal themed pin - maybe woodchucks ?

Armadillos, Texas speed bumps.

LTG : )

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#2437 5 years ago
 
BJW

bwill

Pinside member

US Louisville, KY

5y 41,050 98 4

Quoted from Roostking:

An announcer at a televised tennis match said the player was playing with guerilla tactics or something when attacking the net. Of course it had to be a black player(who was not offended) and the announcer got fired. Stupidity abounds..

apropos of nothing...

It was 'You see Venus move in and put the gorilla effect on, charging'. There was some debate if it was gorilla or guerilla. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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#2438 5 years ago
 
WUF

wolfemaaan

Inactive member

5y 69,650 1,495

Quoted from bwill:

apropos of nothing...
It was 'You see Venus move in and put the gorilla effect on, charging'. There was some debate if it was gorilla or guerilla. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What a bunch of Gorillas

2 weeks later
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#2439 5 years ago
 
SG

bladerunner

Pinside member

12y 109K 957 141

Quoted from branlon8:

who’s in for a nature or animal themed pin - maybe woodchucks ?

Ever tried Popeye? It is not very well liked and one of the reasons is its "Eco" theme.

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#2440 5 years ago
 
ROB

Rdoyle1978

Pinside member

7y 117K 18,130 14 6 1

Quoted from bladerunner:

Ever tried Popeye? It is not very well liked and one of the reasons is its "Eco" theme.

What a stupid reason not to like a game. How does it shoot?

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#2441 5 years ago
 
SG

bladerunner

Pinside member

12y 109K 957 141

Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

What a stupid reason not to like a game. How does it shoot?

My wide body ranking in descending order: TZ, JD, Popeye, DM, RS, Rosanne Barr.

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#2442 5 years ago
 
TOM

pinballinreno

Computer Extreme

9y 134K 15,505 31

Quoted from wolfemaaan:

What a bunch of Gorillas

Gurilla?

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#2443 5 years ago
 
ROB

Rdoyle1978

Pinside member

7y 117K 18,130 14 6 1

Quoted from bladerunner:

My wide body ranking in descending order: TZ, JD, Popeye, DM, RS, Rosanne Barr.

Damn, Popeye is at least on top of Demo Man!

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#2444 5 years ago
 
WUF

wolfemaaan

Inactive member

5y 69,650 1,495

Quoted from pinballinreno:

Gurilla?

Spelling is relative. Do we actually know how many pins are made after our fellow Primates? I can think of 5

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#2445 5 years ago
 
BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

14y 234K 17,615 104

Quoted from pinballinreno:

Gurilla?

Overseas cultures tend to spell things the way it is pronounced.

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#2446 5 years ago
 
KL

knockerlover

Pinside+ Frequent

9y 126K 2,001 39

Quoted from bladerunner:

My wide body ranking in descending order: TZ, JD, Popeye, DM, RS, Rosanne Barr.

The correct answer is TZ, WIJ, STTNG, DM, RS, JD, Roseanne Barr, Popeye

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#2447 5 years ago
 
WUF

wolfemaaan

Inactive member

5y 69,650 1,495

Quoted from knockerlover:

The correct answer is TZ, WIJ, STTNG, DM, RS, JD, Roseanne Barr, Popeye

Here’s mine:

GNR, WIJ, TZ, RS, STTNG, Genie, Your Moms

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#2448 5 years ago
 
MAC

GunsNPinball

Pinside member

US Bellmore, NY

7y 29,800 13 6

According to a podcast.. we wont see magic girl or Alice in wonderland this year. We might see RAZA sometime in june.. womp womp

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#2449 5 years ago
 
CHD

djreddog

Pinside member

US Magnolia, DE

8y 99,050 3,912 20

Quoted from GunsNPinball:

According to a podcast.. we wont see magic girl or Alice in wonderland this year. We might see RAZA sometime in june.. womp womp

Which cast?

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#2450 5 years ago
 
F X

Coyote

Pinside member

9y 107K 8,986

Quoted from GunsNPinball:

According to a podcast.. we wont see magic girl or Alice in wonderland this year. We might see RAZA sometime in june.. womp womp

So, no "5 days" at TPF this year?

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