(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

4 years ago


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#24501 9 months ago
Quoted from pookycade:

Always right (don’t quote any of his past posts though), always loud, always itching for a fight, and for some gawdawful reason always given a free pass by Pinsiders after having his self imposed time out. Some people find it entertaining. I sure don’t.

In my 9 years of pinside, I've only used the ignore button once. I don't agree with a lot of people, but I normally never put them on ignore. I agree on the 'not entertaining' and I really couldn't take it anymore (and I used that button years ago, but given the responses I read here, I'm still glad that I did).

#24502 9 months ago

Is it just me, or do you think the liquidators auction of deeproot pinball will be fascinating......kinda like seeing behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz movie

#24503 9 months ago
Quoted from Stuieb84:

Is it just me, or do you think the liquidators auction of deeproot pinball will be fascinating......kinda like seeing behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz movie

Spoiler: It isn't going to be a very big auction. They don't have anything.

#24504 9 months ago

benheck

Did you already tell the tale of the JPop's great idea about you 2 going to visit customer's houses?
(Maybe I missed it)

#24505 9 months ago

Though John can still be managed. Give me a break.

Anyone that employs John in pinball is doomed. I will boycott anything they do or make in the future. I do not care who it is.

04B0B480-0D04-47C5-9320-C94B7BFA85F5 (resized).jpeg
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#24506 9 months ago

Yes JPOP can still be managed, & will likely move on to more pinball work. He should be a freelance pinball dreamer, & designer. But that is all, he needs a team to get games built.

People know what you need to have production to actually get games out the door. Have good relations with parts vendors, & contractors that do the bulk of a real build. That was the problem with Deeproot, no production in place & piss off most in that parts side of the business. The first thing you would do from day one is find a local cabinet or woodworking shop to build your cabinets & do your playfield manufacturing. Pay your vendors & staff properly!

13
#24507 9 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Yes JPOP can still be managed, & will likely move on to more pinball work. He should be a freelance pinball dreamer, & designer. But that is all, he needs a team to get games built.
People know what you need to have production to actually get games out the door. Have good relations with parts vendors, & contractors that do the bulk of a real build. That was the problem with Deeproot, no production in place & piss off most in that parts side of the business. The first thing you would do from day one is find a local cabinet or woodworking shop to build your cabinets & do your playfield manufacturing. Pay your vendors & staff properly!

the first thing you should do is have your own money to spend

14
#24508 9 months ago
Quoted from belairjoe:

the first thing you should do is have your own money to spend

A close second might be “don’t be a sociopath.”

34
#24509 9 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Yes JPOP can still be managed, & will likely move on to more pinball work. He should be a freelance pinball dreamer, & designer. But that is all, he needs a team to get games built.

Anyone who works with JPop deserves every ounce of hate and aggression they get. He is a terrible pinball designer, if you think differently you are delusional.

There are a dozen people in homebrew that blow JPops skills out of the water. Hire one of them, not some old loser who has never done anything successful in his life.

#24510 9 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Yes JPOP can still be managed ...

Stopped reading after this part ... JPOP cannot be managed. But step back a few feet and ask yourself why all this emphasis on managing this man? He doesn’t do any of the work. There is zero benefit to having JPOP at your company, and it will result in your company going out of business and being investigated by the SEC. Also ask yourself why save the RAZA design? What’s the benefit of playing that game? From what I have seen on video, gameplay was lackluster. Others have commented it is worse in person. This whole mess is a glowing pile of radioactive shit and it should have a 1000 foot blast radius on Pinside. Run greatwich Run.

13
#24511 9 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:JPOP could be managed in the future. You would have to set short term goals & make sure he stays focused. After all the failures he has had since the glory days finishing with the closing of WMS. You would think that he will have to drastically change & take a lower job to move forward. He has some good ideas, along with wacky & poor ones. That is why he has continued dreaming the last 20 years.
There is likely some good that will come out of this failure with Deeproot. Bad to throw people under the bus when you are just hoping for a paying job. Lots of talented people that hopefully we will see what they were working on.
All new starts & even the big players can go under. Pinball Manufacturing is HARD, so is getting good financial backing.

What the actual fuck is this? Absolutely delusional.

#24512 9 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Yes JPOP can still be managed, & will likely move on to more pinball work. He should be a freelance pinball dreamer, & designer. But that is all, he needs a team to get games built.
People know what you need to have production to actually get games out the door. Have good relations with parts vendors, & contractors that do the bulk of a real build. That was the problem with Deeproot, no production in place & piss off most in that parts side of the business. The first thing you would do from day one is find a local cabinet or woodworking shop to build your cabinets & do your playfield manufacturing. Pay your vendors & staff properly!

This is what JPOP is like working at any pinball company. Does he do his job? Sort of, but he's REALLY bad at it:

13
#24513 9 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Yes JPOP can still be managed, & will likely move on to more pinball work. He should be a freelance pinball dreamer, & designer. But that is all, he needs a team to get games built.

Dude was extremely overrated to begin with. Please don’t go into business with him John.

#24514 9 months ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

This is what JPOP is like working at any pinball company. Does he do his job? Sort of, but he's REALLY bad at it:

OMG that was too funny, and a little eerie.

#24515 9 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

Somewhat to that point, make a real game (like AIW) and then give it to John for his "magic art pass". He makes awesome looking fake games, no one is denying that.
He gets no changes, no suggestions NO NOTHING. Just slap "John Goo" on it, collect a check and go away. You could still sell it as a "Jpop art whatever"
AP could have used him in that way but he burned that bridge with the Houdini scam. Robert could have used him in that way but he bought into the BS 100% and obviously had no fucking clue how to manage/delegate or do ANYTHING but threaten people and steal money.
Now? John's a toxic superfund site dumpster fire. Are we crazy for wanting to see it covered with cement?

Well what is this rumor I am hearing about RIOT pinball building AIW with AP? It even says coming soon on their website now that I checked. Is this what you keep alluding to greatwichjohn?

If this actually is true, it seems totally ridiculous. AIW is just another sketch of a game that would take monumental amounts of effort to turn into a workable game. You would think AP wouldn't want to get mixed up in the exact same fiasco as Houdini. Plus its got Zombie Yeti art that I don't think was ever paid for, and does Bill Brandes own the rights to AIW pinball? Would people even care if it didn't have the ZY art and looked nothing like the sketch? Maybe Riot has just quietly been working on it behind the scenes and have a working prototype. I don't know...seems crazy to me.

EDIT- NVM FAKE NEWS, not the JPOP AIW

https://www.riotpinball.com/node/3

#24516 9 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Well what is this rumor I am hearing about RIOT pinball building AIW with AP? It even says coming soon on their website now that I checked. Is this what you keep alluding to greatwichjohn?
If this actually is true, it seems totally ridiculous. AIW is just another sketch of a game that would take monumental amounts of effort to turn into a workable game. You would think AP wouldn't want to get mixed up in the exact same fiasco as Houdini. Plus its got Zombie Yeti art that I don't think was ever paid for, and does Bill Brandes own the rights to AIW pinball? Maybe Riot has just quietly been working on it behind the scenes and have a working prototype. I don't know...seems crazy to me.

This has been on Riot Pinball's website for ages:

pasted_image (resized).png

AIW is open IP. Anybody can make it.

#24517 9 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Well what is this rumor I am hearing about RIOT pinball building AIW with AP? It even says coming soon on their website now that I checked. Is this what you keep alluding to greatwichjohn?
If this actually is true, it seems totally ridiculous. AIW is just another sketch of a game that would take monumental amounts of effort to turn into a workable game. You would think AP wouldn't want to get mixed up in the exact same fiasco as Houdini. Plus its got Zombie Yeti art that I don't think was ever paid for, and does Bill Brandes own the rights to AIW pinball? Maybe Riot has just quietly been working on it behind the scenes and have a working prototype. I don't know...seems crazy to me.

Latest rumour I heard was their next game was "Legends of Valhalla" by riot pinball https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/this-week-in-pinball-7-13-20-legends-of-valhalla-and-p3-profile-system/

#24518 9 months ago
Quoted from woodworker:

This has been on Riot Pinball's website for ages:
[quoted image]
AIW is open IP. Anybody can make it.

Yes but the new rumor is that they are actually making it with AP. I realize its open source, but is this the Jpop "designed" one or is it their own alice in wonderland?

Yes I am well aware of that rumor. I think this is specifically a riot release though but with help from AP

14
#24519 9 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Well what is this rumor I am hearing about RIOT pinball building AIW with AP? It even says coming soon on their website now that I checked. Is this what you keep alluding to greatwichjohn?
If this actually is true, it seems totally ridiculous. AIW is just another sketch of a game that would take monumental amounts of effort to turn into a workable game. You would think AP wouldn't want to get mixed up in the exact same fiasco as Houdini. Plus its got Zombie Yeti art that I don't think was ever paid for, and does Bill Brandes own the rights to AIW pinball? Maybe Riot has just quietly been working on it behind the scenes and have a working prototype. I don't know...seems crazy to me.

Riot had their own AIW sketch dating back to the time when they were shopping WOOLY. It looked pretty cool!

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Yes JPOP can still be managed, & will likely move on to more pinball work.

WHY? Just, why? He's an asshole, a thief, delusional, hasn't produced anything functional in forever, and hasn't produced anything good in even longer.

Jpop is the most OVERRATED designer ever. Let's end the obsession.

TOM, CV, and TotAN were good (maybe even great) back in the day, but these games have not aged so well. There are far better games now and from the 90s.

Jpop is NOT the 2nd coming. Why do we even care at this point? He's just a has-been hack that can't finish his own work, has no pride in his commitments, and even if he could be managed (he can't) how would it be possibly worth the effort?

Flush the turd already people!

#24520 9 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

Ice thinks I (and others) are obsessed with John.
I really am not. For me it's like I'm camping. And it's time to move on but there was a campfire. I just wanna make sure every last ember is dead and gone before moving on...
...so another forest doesn't get burned down.

Pinside would have understood this analogy better if you had related it to a car

#24521 9 months ago

Chicago Pinball Expo schedule is up. Huh, deeproot isn't mentioned anywhere on there. I figured they would want to talk about how their going to build more pinballs than anyone in history
https://pinballexpo.com/events-schedule

Strange, they were so gung ho 2 years ago

Maybe John will show up and we can all ask him how things are going.

#24522 9 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Yes JPOP can still be plinky plonky dingy dangy argle bargle

OK, being sensible for a moment. Suppose John gets yet another chance, his name doesn't go down as the most monkey's-paw infamous designer in the industry. You still can't manage him.

Do you know why Popeye Saves The Earth got made? Because Python Anghelo had WMS management's ear, could bend it by talking the legs off a donkey and get anything he wanted greenlit. It's probably thanks to Python that King Features still believes Popeye is a property somehow worth umptyjillion dollars.

Do you know why Barry got lumbered with designing Popeye? Because Barry was a leash who got stitched up by no other sod at WMS prepared by then to go anywhere near a lunatic auteur who could not and would not talk no for an answer. Popeye was otherwise all Python, all of the time, and Barry was the poor old workhorse strapped to the front. Even Barry considers it the worst game he ever made.

What happened when Python had no leash, no teammates, no self-restraint and spent design budgets like a drunken sailor? Pinball Circus is what you got. All both of them. (NB: before you shout BUT CAPCOM PINBALL, that was a vanity tax write-off from minute one of its conception to year two of its shutdown.)

John has proven himself over and over since WMS became We Make Slots to have morphed into another Python. That's why you can't manage him.

15
#24523 9 months ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Anyone who works with JPop deserves every ounce of hate and aggression they get.

That's why the deeproot narrative fell off a cliff from the very first day. And that was BEFORE Robert started opening his mouth.

Who the hell wants that sort of baggage?

#24524 9 months ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Riot had their own AIW sketch dating back to the time when they were shopping WOOLY. It looked pretty cool!

Ah this must be that then, my mistake, I was not aware

#24525 9 months ago

does anyone still have the link to the original RAZA wordpress? That was was juicier because there was more of us in it.

#24526 9 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Yes JPOP can still be managed, & will likely move on to more pinball work.

I formally request you change your name to greatwichjpop.

#24527 9 months ago
Quoted from roffels:

I formally request you change your name to greatwichjpop.

I just figured greatwichjohn was a shill account for JPOP. It makes more sense than believing that someone could be be so delusional.

13
#24528 9 months ago
Quoted from EricHadley:

Mods should close this thread. GO PLAY SOME PINBALL

I'm somewhat ashamed to admit it, but unless I'm putting up a GC score this thread gives me far more amusement on a daily basis than actually playing pinball.

#24529 9 months ago
Quoted from woodworker:

This has been on Riot Pinball's website for ages:
[quoted image]
AIW is open IP. Anybody can make it.

Art thieves. Not a good way to start.

7A1A38F1-7308-40C1-BE38-80B2B4F4AF29 (resized).jpeg
#24530 9 months ago
Quoted from Lamoraldus:

Your comparison doesn’t work. Pinball Brothers never took any pre-order money from customers. Melissa is doing the pre-order thing on herself. And instead of being angry you could just request your money back.
Regarding the comparison to Stern: they are not a new company that still needs to find out how to produce faster I guess?
Why did you need to put a deposit down at all? Why didn’t you wait for games to be available? Just asking, no offense intended.

Not angry at all (except maybe at myself) I’m in on Alien and willing to bide my time. But to be clear I took a bet with at least some risk here. And yes PB sees none of it til it ships. And yes I did it because I wanted to be one of the first to have this new rendition. I could have waited until it was in house and ready to ship. And finally yes I can ask for my money back, Cointaker is solid in this industry. As I said I don’t throw stones, but I am saying I won’t do it again. It’s not a good way to support the industry and I think it indirectly enables companies like DR which I don’t want to do.

-2
#24531 9 months ago
Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:

OK, being sensible for a moment. Suppose John gets yet another chance, his name doesn't go down as the most monkey's-paw infamous designer in the industry. You still can't manage him.
Do you know why Popeye Saves The Earth got made? Because Python Anghelo had WMS management's ear, could bend it by talking the legs off a donkey and get anything he wanted greenlit. It's probably thanks to Python that King Features still believes Popeye is a property somehow worth umptyjillion dollars.
Do you know why Barry got lumbered with designing Popeye? Because Barry was a leash who got stitched up by no other sod at WMS prepared by then to go anywhere near a lunatic auteur who could not and would not talk no for an answer. Popeye was otherwise all Python, all of the time, and Barry was the poor old workhorse strapped to the front. Even Barry considers it the worst game he ever made.
What happened when Python had no leash, no teammates, no self-restraint and spent design budgets like a drunken sailor? Pinball Circus is what you got. All both of them. (NB: before you shout BUT CAPCOM PINBALL, that was a vanity tax write-off from minute one of its conception to year two of its shutdown.)
John has proven himself over and over since WMS became We Make Slots to have morphed into another Python. That's why you can't manage him.

Saddening that didn't happen more often then because Pinball Circus is fucking amazing.

38
#24532 9 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Yes JPOP can still be managed, & will likely move on to more pinball work. He should be a freelance pinball dreamer, & designer. But that is all, he needs a team to get games built.

JFC…why are you incapable of comprehending this: Jpop is NOT A SELLABLE BRAND. He’s one of the most hated men in pinball. Not only would a new “manager” be wasting money on a washed up no-talent hack, but they’d have NEGATIVE support for their “business decision” from potential customers.

Jpop NEVER had any business sense & neither would anyone foolish enough to get involved with him. He should NOT be remotely involved with pinball anymore. Period.

Neither should you, frankly.

#24533 9 months ago
Quoted from theadicts77:

Saddening that didn't happen more often then because Pinball Circus is fucking amazing.

Yes, but not in the sense of a pinball company making products to make profits. Rumor has it Williams/Bally/Midway spent over a million dollars in development on that game, built two of them to put on test, where they didn't earn diddly squat, then canceled the project. So it darn well better be amazing, at $500,000 per machine. (And truth be told, it does not have a ton of long-term play value. It's not Orbitor 1 levels of "play a few games and never need to play it again" but it does get old pretty fast.)

19
#24534 9 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I actually believed after his latest screw up and his self imposed vacation of shame, that Iceman would return to Pinside with some humility. Believe it or not, I had empathy for him the past couple of days and I had determined that I would take the high road with him if that were the case.
He's a lost cause and I'm convinced he needs help.

For both your and my sake I hope Ice is not in on the Fathom remake. I would take that as a bad omen at this point.

#24535 9 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Yes JPOP can still be managed, & will likely move on to more pinball work.

Holy hell. I thought I was the insane one here. I am going to have to rethink my handle as I am no longer deserving. Constantly repeating this will never make it true.

#24536 9 months ago
Quoted from kst8cat:

For both your and my sake I hope Ice is not in on the Fathom remake. I would take that as a bad omen at this point.

He's not and that's our secret guarantee. I was going to make some drunk and obnoxious bets about Fathom delivery but you let the cat out of the bag.

15
#24537 9 months ago

greatwitchjohn's reality:

92EN.gif
#24538 9 months ago
Quoted from Scandell:

Art thieves. Not a good way to start.
[quoted image]

WHOA! You're right! He totally copied this!!

pasted_image (resized).png

#24539 9 months ago
Quoted from theadicts77:

Saddening that didn't happen more often then because Pinball Circus is fucking amazing.

But utterly unviable as a 1994 product. So if you can't make it and turn a profit, why let him do it?

You want to know what the single highest-budgeted production machine was, prior to The Pinball 2000 gambit? Circus Voltaire. In 1997. And notoriously unreliable to operate.

#24540 9 months ago
Quoted from woodworker:

WHOA! You're right! He totally copied this!!
[quoted image]

I'm starting to realize....this hobby...is polluted with POS.

#24541 9 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Yes JPOP can still be managed, & will likely move on to more pinball work. He should be a freelance pinball dreamer, & designer. But that is all, he needs a team to get games built.
People know what you need to have production to actually get games out the door. Have good relations with parts vendors, & contractors that do the bulk of a real build. That was the problem with Deeproot, no production in place & piss off most in that parts side of the business. The first thing you would do from day one is find a local cabinet or woodworking shop to build your cabinets & do your playfield manufacturing. Pay your vendors & staff properly!

You somehow seem to forget time and time again that JPOP already screwed the entire hobby over. Nobody wants anything to do with him. There are no opportunities for "good relations" once you hire a hack like him. How dense are you?

#24542 9 months ago
Quoted from woodworker:

WHOA! You're right! He totally copied this!!
[quoted image]

Just the fact that he art directed that tells you everything about how his vision of AIW was likely to turn out. You don't 'create' a complete art package and then try to fit the game around it. The hierarchy doesn't work.

#24543 9 months ago
Quoted from Scandell:

Art thieves. Not a good way to start.
[quoted image]

Quoted from woodworker:

WHOA! You're right! He totally copied this!!
[quoted image]

Is that Gen-13 and/or Jim Lee art?

#24544 9 months ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Chicago Pinball Expo schedule is up. Huh, deeproot isn't mentioned anywhere on there. I figured they would want to talk about how their going to build more pinballs than anyone in history
https://pinballexpo.com/events-schedule
Strange, they were so gung ho 2 years ago
Maybe John will show up and we can all ask him how things are going.

Last I heard, a surprising legal issue related to RAZA came up that they're hoping to resolve amicably in short order so they can get everyone their games.

#24545 9 months ago

It's J Scott Campbell. Have you guys seen his Danger Girl pinball art concepts?

#24546 9 months ago
Quoted from Scandell:

Art thieves. Not a good way to start.
[quoted image]

Are you saying that is from DR Utah studios? Or did someone else draw that?

#24547 9 months ago

We pointed it out above. It's obvious whoever drew this AIW playfield mockup...traced over the J Scott Campbell drawing from above.

Quoted from mbwalker:

Are you saying that is from DR Utah studios? Or did someone else draw that?

24
#24548 9 months ago

Ice maybe you should be sending drunken DMs to greatwichjohn instead of me?

#24549 9 months ago

So wait - was there an actual legal issue about RAZA and then the SEC suit came out of nowhere? Robert was deposed by the SEC recently - surely he knew something was up?

#24550 9 months ago

Happy Hours last a decade down in Texas

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