(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

1 year ago



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There are 3415 posts in this topic. You are on page 49 of 69.
#2401 3 months ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Them showing you, pinball media, things that they legitimately don't want to get out without an NDA. Then you not reporting anything. The mind reels.

This is really common in the video game industry (among many others).

Why? You show the press your game early so they can be prepared before you launch. You wouldn't want to launch a game and have a three week delay while the press plays your game and then reviews it, would you? No, you want the press to gush about your game just a little before your game launches.

And nobody breaks embargo because they would be blacklisted. NDA not required, just common (business) sense.

#2402 3 months ago
Quoted from Brijam:

This is really common in the video game industry (among many others).
Why? You show the press your game early so they can be prepared before you launch. You wouldn't want to launch a game and have a three week delay while the press plays your game and then reviews it, would you? No, you want the press to gush about your game just a little before your game launches.
And nobody breaks embargo because they would be blacklisted. NDA not required, just common (business) sense.

Spot on, that’s exactly how it works. We do get PR/companies advising what can be shown or discussed before embargo, but it’s just teaser stuff.

#2403 3 months ago
Quoted from BrewinBombers:

Someone who thinks "guerrilla warfare" is racist doesn't know the etymology of the word or understand that guerrilla and gorilla are different words. Not political, just facts.

Ima guerrilla gorilla on a tortilla

#2404 3 months ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Why would you wish deeproot to fail?

I wouldn't. How do you get to such a conclusion?

I'm very much looking forward to what will be revealled.

#2405 3 months ago
Quoted from Brijam:

This is really common in the video game industry (among many others).
Why? You show the press your game early so they can be prepared before you launch. You wouldn't want to launch a game and have a three week delay while the press plays your game and then reviews it, would you? No, you want the press to gush about your game just a little before your game launches.
And nobody breaks embargo because they would be blacklisted. NDA not required, just common (business) sense.

Yeah that makes sense but they havent actually reported anything.

#2406 3 months ago
Quoted from Brijam:

If their burn rate is $9mm per year (as was posted a few months ago) and their net profit is $2,500 per pin, their breakeven is about 10 pins a day every day of the year, or about 14 pins a day running their factory 5 days a week with a two week holiday. I don't know. What kind of volume does Stern do per day? JJP? American? Does anyone know that can say?

Stern: From what both Gary and Jody Dankburg have said, they need to make between 55-60 per day, which is roughly 15k games per year.
JJP: If I had to guess, if they are making at best 2,000 games per year, that's barely 8 games per day
AP: no clue, and I doubt they would want to publically say what they make since they are such a young company.

#2407 3 months ago
Quoted from BrewinBombers:

Someone who thinks "guerrilla warfare" is racist doesn't know the etymology of the word or understand that guerrilla and gorilla are different words. Not political, just facts.

Late to the party, but...

He said "gorilla". Not "guerrilla". "Guer", "go"

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#2408 3 months ago

Casually watching. Could be interesting if they pull it off. Guessing if it does indeed come to fruition, they will have to get rolling sometime in 2019. At some point you need to produce games and have income from sales to be viable. Time marches on. Sitting back and watching but I won't get excited until something happens. Maybe they can do it, but it can't be easy in any way.

#2409 3 months ago

No one knows, but in that Todd Tuckey PBS program they mentioned an estimate for Stern at 8 - 10k / year. That's 21 - 27 / day.

#2410 3 months ago
Quoted from BrewinBombers:

Someone who thinks "guerrilla warfare" is racist doesn't know the etymology of the word or understand that guerrilla and gorilla are different words. Not political, just facts.

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#2411 3 months ago

You're in my spot.

#2412 3 months ago
Quoted from Brijam:

If their burn rate is $9mm per year (as was posted a few months ago) and their net profit is $2,500 per pin, their breakeven is about 10 pins a day every day of the year, or about 14 pins a day running their factory 5 days a week with a two week holiday.

There is a difference between net profit and gross margin. 2500$ net profit per machine on a 10k retail would actually be a very profitable business I would gladly invest in !

#2413 3 months ago

$2500 profit? What kind of fantasy land are we living in here?

#2414 3 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

$2500 profit? What kind of fantasy land are we living in here?

Pinball

#2415 3 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

They are currently hiring "assemblers" here in the area so I'm assuming we will find out shortly.

Do they look like either of the two pictures below?

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#2416 3 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

$2500 profit? What kind of fantasy land are we living in here?

Yeah, I was being pretty darn generous. You have to start somewhere. But they have made some claims about getting their costs down, haven't they?

A while back I started on a spreadsheet trying to list every single thing that went into a pinball machine and cross-link retail prices for each item. I didn't get very far, but here it is if anyone wants to help:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1veqfqDSZsp9iFqA54DFxMaYe-xNC3q0zr-I1A5cMpew/edit?usp=sharing

#2417 3 months ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Yeah that makes sense but they havent actually reported anything.

Exactly! They won't until Deeproot gives the okay.

#2418 3 months ago
Quoted from lancestorm:

No one knows, but in that Todd Tuckey PBS program they mentioned an estimate for Stern at 8 - 10k / year. That's 21 - 27 / day.

Love Todd and his videos, but he made more than one factual error in that interview.

Stern has said many times they are doing at least 50 games per day.

#2419 3 months ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

Stern has said many times they are doing at least 50 games per day.

Of course, Stern NEVER exaggerates.

#2420 3 months ago

Stern doesn't promise releases and fail to deliver because their actions are all that is needed. They make no promises and I don't recall stern ever exaggerate, but if ANYONE in the business can deliver 50 machines a day, we all know who is capable and who is not.

#2421 3 months ago

Physical games sure, completed no

#2422 3 months ago
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#2423 3 months ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Well thats a new one on me... apparently people are confusing a warfare and marketing tactic with a species of primates whose name sounds somewhat similar. I don’t think you can make that mistake in print, but you can never be too sure. But then again, what word could we use instead??

An announcer at a televised tennis match said the player was playing with guerilla tactics or something when attacking the net. Of course it had to be a black player(who was not offended) and the announcer got fired. Stupidity abounds..

#2424 3 months ago
Quoted from Brijam:

If their burn rate is $9mm per year (as was posted a few months ago) and their net profit is $2,500 per pin, their breakeven is about 10 pins a day every day of the year, or about 14 pins a day running their factory 5 days a week with a two week holiday.
Of course that $2,500 net is pure speculation on my part.
Anyway, that's for breakeven at the current run rate.
Keep in mind that they may not have to pay their investors back for years if their play is to go public or be acquired.

I don't know. What kind of volume does Stern do per day? JJP? American? Does anyone know that can say?

We know Stern delivered about 10k pins in 2017. Let's say they delivered 11k pins in 2018 at an avg gross margin profit of $2500 ea

That means that they delivered on average about 31 pinball machines PER DAY, every day of the year!

$2500 x 11k pins gives you $27,500,000 to cover fixed overhead and net profit.

They did that with 300+ employees and a manufacturing machine!

You gotta "keep the line running" constantly.

Look at what JJP has to charge just to stay in business. Have they ever turned a profit?

#2425 3 months ago

And if Stern sold and delivered 11k pinball machines over 240 work days then that is 45.8 pins per day.

So regardless of what you want to believe, its a shitload of pins on a daily basis.

#2426 3 months ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Well thats a new one on me... apparently people are confusing a warfare and marketing tactic with a species of primates whose name sounds somewhat similar. I don’t think you can make that mistake in print, but you can never be too sure. But then again, what word could we use instead??

its just Monkey business
Bunch of people going apeshit over nothing

#2427 3 months ago
Quoted from Borygard:

I think you're missing most of the story then Bryan. JPop got American Pinball to build Magic Girl. Deeproot has contracted with many JPop customers to make them whole on their game deposits. Deeproot is likely building Magic Girl, RAZA, AIW, and others, likely with the system JPop developed.
I don't see how anyone could objectively look at everything and conclude he did nothing but simply took a job.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

I don't think he is missing that, but you do appear to be missing the part where JPop completely screwed and took advantage of the-new-to-the-industry and slightly naive AP backers.

Obviously history proved to be different, but when they realised they'd been had re: the joke of a diorama that was the original Houdini, the much more likely outcome was that they quit immediately and went back, chastened, to what they knew. Takes a lot of balls and commitment to come back from a farce like that.

#2428 3 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

We know Stern delivered about 10k pins in 2017.
They did that with 300+ employees and a manufacturing machine!

That's right, I forgot about how many employees Stern has. How many employees does JJP have?

I wonder how DR is planning on scaling manufacturing? They haven't taken pre-orders so how would you go about gauging how many units you'll need to build? Seems like a major challenge given that they are committed to building in-house.

#2429 3 months ago

So any new news on Deeproot Pins? If not, go ahead and return to the normally scheduled argument about how many pins could a pin maker make

#2430 3 months ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

how many pins could a pin maker make

If a pin maker could make pins?, They’d make all the pins a pin maker could if a pin maker could make pins. Or something like that.

#2431 3 months ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

If a pin maker could make pins?, They’d make all the pins a pin maker could if a pin maker could make pins. Or something like that.

well then , how many pins would a pin player play if a pin player could play pins?

#2432 3 months ago
Quoted from fanuminski:

well then , how many pins would a pin player play if a pin player could play pins?

All of 'em?

#2433 3 months ago

Good answer.

#2435 3 months ago

who’s in for a nature or animal themed pin - maybe woodchucks ?

#2436 89 days ago
Quoted from branlon8:

who’s in for a nature or animal themed pin - maybe woodchucks ?

Armadillos, Texas speed bumps.

LTG : )

#2437 89 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

An announcer at a televised tennis match said the player was playing with guerilla tactics or something when attacking the net. Of course it had to be a black player(who was not offended) and the announcer got fired. Stupidity abounds..

apropos of nothing...

It was 'You see Venus move in and put the gorilla effect on, charging'. There was some debate if it was gorilla or guerilla. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#2438 87 days ago
Quoted from bwill:

apropos of nothing...
It was 'You see Venus move in and put the gorilla effect on, charging'. There was some debate if it was gorilla or guerilla. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What a bunch of Gorillas

2 weeks later
#2439 71 days ago
Quoted from branlon8:

who’s in for a nature or animal themed pin - maybe woodchucks ?

Ever tried Popeye? It is not very well liked and one of the reasons is its "Eco" theme.

#2440 71 days ago
Quoted from bladerunner:

Ever tried Popeye? It is not very well liked and one of the reasons is its "Eco" theme.

What a stupid reason not to like a game. How does it shoot?

#2441 71 days ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

What a stupid reason not to like a game. How does it shoot?

My wide body ranking in descending order: TZ, JD, Popeye, DM, RS, Rosanne Barr.

#2443 71 days ago
Quoted from bladerunner:

My wide body ranking in descending order: TZ, JD, Popeye, DM, RS, Rosanne Barr.

Damn, Popeye is at least on top of Demo Man!

#2444 70 days ago

Spelling is relative. Do we actually know how many pins are made after our fellow Primates? I can think of 5

#2445 70 days ago

Overseas cultures tend to spell things the way it is pronounced.

#2446 68 days ago
Quoted from bladerunner:

My wide body ranking in descending order: TZ, JD, Popeye, DM, RS, Rosanne Barr.

The correct answer is TZ, WIJ, STTNG, DM, RS, JD, Roseanne Barr, Popeye

#2447 68 days ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

The correct answer is TZ, WIJ, STTNG, DM, RS, JD, Roseanne Barr, Popeye

Here’s mine:

GNR, WIJ, TZ, RS, STTNG, Genie, Your Moms

#2448 68 days ago

According to a podcast.. we wont see magic girl or Alice in wonderland this year. We might see RAZA sometime in june.. womp womp

#2449 67 days ago
Quoted from GunsNPinball:

According to a podcast.. we wont see magic girl or Alice in wonderland this year. We might see RAZA sometime in june.. womp womp

Which cast?

#2450 67 days ago
Quoted from GunsNPinball:

According to a podcast.. we wont see magic girl or Alice in wonderland this year. We might see RAZA sometime in june.. womp womp

So, no "5 days" at TPF this year?

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