Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from benheck:Hey what can I say except I TOLD YA
That deeproot would go down in flames
I don't even feel bad because I TOLD YA
They never would ship any games!
I Told Ya
I Told Ya
Looks like Ben is buying us all drinks. Way to go buddy!
Quoted from benheck:Hey what can I say except I TOLD YA
That deeproot would go down in flames
I don't even feel bad because I TOLD YA
They never would ship any games!
I Told Ya
I Told Ya
are you sure you gave a warning?.i dont recall reading any of that do you have a post number i can check?
Quoted from Mr68:Looks like Ben is buying us all drinks. Way to go buddy!
Sure thing, lemme just go get some funding for that at the old folks home by the post office...
Deeproot was in one building thought.
TJ
Quoted from Kkoss24:Don’t mess with yelobird .He’ll be back .Great dude and definitly not hiding from this .
Quoted from benheck:Sure thing, lemme just go get some funding for that at the old folks home by the post office...
Purple Jello shots sounds good.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Here is Robert's carwash
10670 Bandera Rd, San Antonio, TX 78250
I think he gave a loan from deeproot Funds, LLC (again don't name all your fraudulent companies the same thing) to someone who built a carwash sometime in 2019 or so going off the streetview with Robert personally as the trustee
It was only a matter of time before the cargument would evolve into the carwashumentation.
Defined as follows: the act of lending millions to a car wash business on the eve of a pandemic when nobody will drive for a year.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Thanks Ben for getting my name right with Kaneda. You could of just dodged the question, after the earlier comment about me being the fool. I will not be contacting JPOP in the near future. I am still working with multiple groups that want to produce Real Pinball Machines. Still lots of room for small groups to enter the market, & offer more choices.
I do not think you know who they are which is fine, & maybe you know others doing the same. There is no reason for me to go on about Deeproot being dead. & speculating any possibilities. We will see who picks up what when it comes up for sale. Likely more value on the video studio stuff, but some of the pinball info might be of interest to some people. Maybe they would get pleasure from burning what they buy to the ground, or just want a piece of pinball history (good, bad, or ugly) their choice!
You are so . . . WEIRD!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:He’s not a bad person. He just did a bad thing.
I'm also a fan of Yelo's -- did he do something other than gamble a bunch of cash (and maintain unwavering confidence right to the end that the games would ship) that would push this from "bad investment" to "bad thing"?
Quoted from Kkoss24:yelobird. He’ll be back .
yelo bird (resized).jpgQuoted from dri:I completely over-ate that that delicious mac & cheese joint not far from Reciprocal, so it could've been that.
Just the thought of him Jplopping an assload of mac & cheese into a skate shop crapper is enough to put me off food for a week. Of course Robert would powdercoat the toilet purple and make it a shrine.
Does anyone feel like this story is going to get even weirder? I can’t shake the feeling that some truly awful shit is yet to come.
Quoted from aingide:Does anyone feel like this story is going to get even weirder? I can’t shake the feeling that some truly awful shit is yet to come.
We’re probably only getting started. Wait till the employees feel safe to spill.
Quoted from frolic:We’re probably only getting started. Wait till the employees feel safe to spill.
Wait till the SEC starts reading this thread and begins hiring our Pinside detectives. 
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Thanks Ben for getting my name right with Kaneda. You could of just dodged the question, after the earlier comment about me being the fool. I will not be contacting JPOP in the near future. I am still working with multiple groups that want to produce Real Pinball Machines. Still lots of room for small groups to enter the market, & offer more choices.
I do not think you know who they are which is fine, & maybe you know others doing the same. There is no reason for me to go on about Deeproot being dead. & speculating any possibilities. We will see who picks up what when it comes up for sale. Likely more value on the video studio stuff, but some of the pinball info might be of interest to some people. Maybe they would get pleasure from burning what they buy to the ground, or just want a piece of pinball history (good, bad, or ugly) their choice!
Oh my god, my man. No one wants any part of this toxic legal mess.
Legal Entertainment Round #1
(credit to 
Inside for acquiring these court records).
HOLTS MECHANICAL LTD VS ROBERT J MUELLER ET AL
Here we have a contractor hired to do hvac work for Robert (remember, tenants in Robert's building have to pay for hvac stuff per the terms of the lease) who says Robert stiffed him for $164,000. He also says a lot of other shit I don't think you commonly find in lawsuits (at least not winning ones), basically calling Robert a con man who runs tons of sham businesses for the purposes of unduly enriching himself. Seems like Mr. Holt may have been ahead of the curve! I particularly like his discovery requests, which feel like some of the stuff the SEC probably actually got to do.
Robert counters by basically making fun of the way the guy's lawsuit was written and moving to throw it out because it technically doesn't make sense as written Feels like someone making fun of someone's grammar on an internet forum as a way to not even engage in the subject matter of whatever debate.
You can see what happened with the case here: https://portal-txbexar.tylertech.cloud/app/RegisterOfActions/#/85BEDFC0255D0DCF526F2E9F9C33A127317CD7F818D0B754210083CAC253F18C773983A58A01D7F9056597615F582D0A/anon/portalembed
Initially filed in October 2020, the parties filed a joint motion to dismiss in March 2021. Lawyer people, does this suggest there was likely a settlement?
Anyway, there's funny stuff in this I'll leave to you all for the first pass to pull out. You can click the doc below to get the whole thing.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Legal Entertainment Round #1
(credit to Inside for acquiring these court records).
HOLTS MECHANICAL LTD VS ROBERT J MUELLER ET AL
Here we have a contractor hired to do hvac work for Robert (remember, tenants in Robert's building have to pay for hvac stuff per the terms of the lease) who says Robert stiffed him for $164,000. He also says a lot of other shit I don't think you commonly find in lawsuits (at least not winning ones), basically calling Robert a con man who runs tons of sham businesses for the purposes of unduly enriching himself. Seems like Mr. Holt may have been ahead of the curve! I particularly like his discovery requests, which feel like some of the stuff the SEC probably actually got to do.
Robert counters by basically making fun of the way the guy's lawsuit was written and moving to throw it out because it technically doesn't make sense as written Feels like someone making fun of someone's grammar on an internet forum as a way to not even engage in the subject matter of whatever debate.
You can see what happened with the case here: https://portal-txbexar.tylertech.cloud/app/RegisterOfActions/#/85BEDFC0255D0DCF526F2E9F9C33A127317CD7F818D0B754210083CAC253F18C773983A58A01D7F9056597615F582D0A/anon/portalembed
Initially filed in October 2020, the parties filed a joint motion to dismiss in March 2021. Lawyer people, does this suggest there was likely a settlement?
Anyway, there's funny stuff in this I'll leave to you all for the first pass to pull out. You can click the doc below to get the whole thing.
Enjoy!
[quoted image]
This is related to the lien I put up earlier. The courts agreed with the HVAC guy. The lien was released in March this year, presumably because the bill was settled.
Quoted from frolic:Can someone post the time times in Ben's interview when he does his jpop impression? There were 2 times. Man that cracked me up and I wanted to hear it again.
The Joe Balcer impression was pretty good too!
Legal Entertainment Round #2
DEEPROOT TECH LLC VS G-FORCE TECHNICAL LTD
https://portal-txbexar.tylertech.cloud/app/RegisterOfActions/#/5158B236775D18688A6ADDC48FFFE25EB57A1942FDE0C85D3EF887B334E893BEAF9432DEFA6DDFA19323895E8B7FCD80/anon/portalembed
This time it's Robert seeking compensation for buying equipment that he alleges was not fully operational once he got it.
This doc confirms that Robert was at least buying some hardware that would presumably be used for trying to make something. I leave it to the manufacturing folks to dig into the details and share thoughts what's going on here and who's being the more unreasonable bastard.
Unlike the above situation, this once is still very active and appears headed to jury trial next year. Lawyer people can enlighten us as to what likely happened after the filing of these documents from the events of the court (because this pdf is all we have for this case).
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Legal Entertainment Round #2
DEEPROOT TECH LLC VS G-FORCE TECHNICAL LTD
https://portal-txbexar.tylertech.cloud/app/RegisterOfActions/#/5158B236775D18688A6ADDC48FFFE25EB57A1942FDE0C85D3EF887B334E893BEAF9432DEFA6DDFA19323895E8B7FCD80/anon/portalembed
This time it's Robert seeking compensation for buying equipment that he alleges was not fully operational once he got it.
This doc confirms that Robert was at least buying some hardware that would presumably be used for trying to make something. I leave it to the manufacturing folks to dig into the details and share thoughts what's going on here and who's being the more unreasonable bastard.
Unlike the above situation, this once is still very active and appears headed to jury trial next year. Lawyer people can enlighten us as to what likely happened after the filing of these documents from the events of the court (because this pdf is all we have for this case).
[quoted image]
This reads like they bought equipment to print circuit boards and mount the components to the boards, but deeproot didn’t know how to use any of the stuff they bought
Quoted from TreyBo69:This is related to the lien I put up earlier. The courts agreed with the HVAC guy. The lien was released in March this year, presumably because the bill was settled.
Oh cool. Still haven't caught up to reading that or about the car wash. Nice going, Holts!
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Legal Entertainment Round #1
(credit to Inside for acquiring these court records).
HOLTS MECHANICAL LTD VS ROBERT J MUELLER ET AL
Here we have a contractor hired to do hvac work for Robert (remember, tenants in Robert's building have to pay for hvac stuff per the terms of the lease) who says Robert stiffed him for $164,000. He also says a lot of other shit I don't think you commonly find in lawsuits (at least not winning ones), basically calling Robert a con man who runs tons of sham businesses for the purposes of unduly enriching himself. Seems like Mr. Holt may have been ahead of the curve! I particularly like his discovery requests, which feel like some of the stuff the SEC probably actually got to do.
Robert counters by basically making fun of the way the guy's lawsuit was written and moving to throw it out because it technically doesn't make sense as written Feels like someone making fun of someone's grammar on an internet forum as a way to not even engage in the subject matter of whatever debate.
You can see what happened with the case here: https://portal-txbexar.tylertech.cloud/app/RegisterOfActions/#/85BEDFC0255D0DCF526F2E9F9C33A127317CD7F818D0B754210083CAC253F18C773983A58A01D7F9056597615F582D0A/anon/portalembed
Initially filed in October 2020, the parties filed a joint motion to dismiss in March 2021. Lawyer people, does this suggest there was likely a settlement?
Anyway, there's funny stuff in this I'll leave to you all for the first pass to pull out. You can click the doc below to get the whole thing.
Enjoy!
[quoted image]
Find me the lawsuit where Underwriter Labs sues Deeproot, withholding certification until they pay up.
Even if you knew nothing else of DR, just counting the number of lawsuits I think would give one a pretty good idea of who they were dealing with. There’s another very notable public person who seemed to thrive on suing people and bring sued that comes to mind here.
All of the above is why it would be foolish to try and work with deeproot in any way (with them as an active entity)
Contract out the game and turn one screw 5 times instead of 4? Boom Robert doesn't pay you for the 200,000 turns that were correct.
Quoted from TreyBo69:This reads like they bought equipment to print circuit boards and mount the components to the boards, but deeproot didn’t know how to use any of the stuff they bought
If they were doing this they were truly idiots. It is so hard to get volumes necessary to make pcb manufacture cost effective versus just subcontract out. And if you don’t know what you are doing it can quickly become a catastrophe. Far better early on to send the board to be stuffed by a company that does this for a living and knows what the hell they are doing.
Quoted from pookycade:If they were doing this they were truly idiots. It is so hard to get volumes necessary to make pcb manufacture cost effective versus just subcontract out. And if you don’t know what you are doing it can quickly become a catastrophe. Far better early on to send the board to be stuffed by a company that does this for a living and knows what the hell they are doing.
OK, so they were definitely doing this.
Quoted from pookycade:If they were doing this they were truly idiots. It is so hard to get volumes necessary to make pcb manufacture cost effective versus just subcontract out. And if you don’t know what you are doing it can quickly become a catastrophe. Far better early on to send the board to be stuffed by a company that does this for a living and knows what the hell they are doing.
Yeah it’s bizarre.
Robert seems like he may have some sort of OCD or other underlying need to control every aspect and be involved with every detail.
Stern sells thousands of games a year. They just order the boards from China like everyone else. The scale of pinball just doesn’t make sense to do this thing in house. Design it sure, but they’ll never keep the machines busy enough to be worth the investment.
Honestly I’m waiting to hear about deeproot Forestry that would have grown the wood for the playfields and cabinets. Reason for the latest delay? Still saplings ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That isn't the equipment to make the circuit boards themselves. (a very toxic process only a few places in the US do, mostly NIMBY'd out to China etc)
But it is what you'd need to "stuff" them with components and then flow the solder to complete the process. So still.... Wow.
Robert could try for an insanity defense.
Legal Entertainment Round #3
IN DEPTH EVENTS, INC VS DEEPROOT TECH, LLC
https://portal-txbexar.tylertech.cloud/app/RegisterOfActions/#/6B7B7B63763E49A488A1307171AD08F82474214C588E7F7600228DF6C7CDAB4061343B32BFE22F4B120718CDF7F430C8/anon/portalembed
This is the continuation of the case that began in Collin County and go moved to Bexar. As you'll recall, a company contracted by Robert to spruce up the deeproot theater wanted to get paid (!) and Robert didn't want to pay them because he says they didn't finish the work. They say they weren't allowed to because no one would open the door when they went by.
For this one, Inside got a bunch of extra files. I've added anything that has something interesting in it to the main pdf, knowing that I'll surely not be putting things in the correct order and that you all will just have to be OK with that.
This is another case that is ongoing. To my lay eye, it would appear that Robert has tried to get this thing thrown out but that it's currently set to go before a judge for a non-jury trial in November?
DR-InDepth.pdfAnd this is just the stuff from the county seat of San Antonio. Robert gets around. Who knows how many vendors he has stiffed around the country or paid for car washes he wasn’t authorized to invest in
He certainly keeps his buddy Jason busy.
Quoted from benheck:That isn't the equipment to make the circuit boards themselves. (a very toxic process only a few places in the US do, mostly NIMBY'd out to China etc)
But it is what you'd need to "stuff" them with components and then flow the solder to complete the process. So still.... Wow.
Robert could try for an insanity defense.
Remember his cryptic posts in the thread about SMD with the ease of thru hole? Guy is a loon.
Quoted from deeproot:If only one could get the benefits of SM and the ease and cheapness of TH. Hmmmmm...
Quoted from TreyBo69:Remember his cryptic posts in the thread about SMD with the ease of thru hole? Guy is a loon.
He doesn't know WTF he is talking about.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:How common is it for a plaintiff to just rip and run a guy down like this in a petition?
This reads like the work of Lexicon, Nomenclator & Thesurus.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Mr. Holt knew what was up and wanted to use discovery to expose some of Bobby's business badness. Otherwise, why would he be seeking this stuff just to compel a guy to pay a bill?[quoted image]
I wonder if Mr Holt found this thread…
Like it’s crazy how much trouble Robert could have avoided with his ridiculous shell game by not naming them all the same dumb meaningless name
Quoted from benheck:That isn't the equipment to make the circuit boards themselves. (a very toxic process only a few places in the US do, mostly NIMBY'd out to China etc)
But it is what you'd need to "stuff" them with components and then flow the solder to complete the process. So still.... Wow.
Robert could try for an insanity defense.
Correct. But you would agree just stuffing boards and flow soldering is not cost effective except at scale. And there are ALWAYS thru hole stuff you cant get around which is a PITA. The US house I use does the same for most major corporations including HP. Luckily my small runs get to piggy back on others high volumes to keep costs reasonable. Even when protoing boards it’s so easy to screw this up and then hours to figure out what component isn’t soldered down correctly or put in backwards that I just don’t bother anymore. And you know DR would have screwed it up and then blamed that for yet another delay.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Yeah it’s bizarre.
Robert seems like he may have some sort of OCD or other underlying need to control every aspect and be involved with every detail.
Stern sells thousands of games a year. They just order the boards from China like everyone else. The scale of pinball just doesn’t make sense to do this thing in house. Design it sure, but they’ll never keep the machines busy enough to be worth the investment.
Micromanaging control of everything backed up by knowledge of absolutely nothing (other than suing people). What could possibly go wrong ?
Quoted from pookycade:Micromanaging control of everything backed up by knowledge of absolutely nothing (other than suing people). What could possibly go wrong ?
All by a lawyer who uses another lawyer to do all the actual lawyering
Quoted from pookycade:Correct. But you would agree just stuffing boards and flow soldering is not cost effective except at scale. And there are ALWAYS thru hole stuff you cant get around which is a PITA. The US house I use does the same for most major corporations including HP. Luckily my small runs get to piggy back on others high volumes to keep costs reasonable. Even when protoing boards it’s so easy to screw this up and then hours to figure out what component isn’t soldered down correctly or put in backwards that I just don’t bother anymore. And you know DR would have screwed it up and then blamed that for yet another delay.
Yeah. It's just more insanity.
As someone said earlier, I don't think we've even scratched the surface of this iceberg of DUMB.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:[quoted image]
Oh is it now?
That was supposed to be the fifth day of Deeproot where they were to announce that a line of 1000 custom contracted one off machines was waiting to begin production. Waiting list only stuff. Accents of purple sparkles added into each for that extra special DR touch
Quoted from TreyBo69:Honestly I’m waiting to hear about deeproot Forestry that would have grown the wood for the playfields and cabinets. Reason for the latest delay? Still saplings ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Soybean playfields. Like Henry Ford.
Speaking of dumb things… I don’t think it was mentioned yet but in Carys video the other day he said the technical issue that caused the machine to break during the deep six visit was while Robert was showing off the lift system, he ripped a HDMI cable apart because it was just a rats nest of the same colored wires hanging about.
Honestly it’s a wonder they even finished a prototype of RAZA.
I’m still curious about the boards in it. They gotta be a rip off of Multimorphic right? If you read the bottom of their color printed playfields, the switch PCB and coil PCBs are separate just like P3 (vs Fast, OPP, others). And Robert has been weirdly antagonist towards Gerry. Didn’t John rip him off in his Zidware days? (Well got someone else to rip it off because Starbucks)
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