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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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  • Latest reply 5 days ago by benheck
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There are 33,559 posts in this topic. You are on page 477 of 672.
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#23801 2 years ago
 
AJP

parsonsaj

Pinside+ Frequent

6y 75,550 949

Quoted from Lermods:

Really fascinating reading this thread. Went back just a year when discussion of the $750k/month burn rate was discussed around post 6604. The warning signs were there, but many refused to accept them. Hindsight of course is 20/20, but still, the math never really added up to me. Seems discussion of parts delays was just a red herring. What a terrible situation for just about everyone involved, hope people can recover some of their funds.

The discussion of "parts delays"... just to clarify that, the primary reason for the delay in delivering the parts is that they were never ordered in the first place?

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#23802 2 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,434

Quoted from parsonsaj:

The discussion of "parts delays"... just to clarify that, the primary reason for the delay in delivering the parts is that they were never ordered in the first place?

It seemed like they shipped in some stuff. They had a delivery of a crate of LCD screens. I think that was April

They were trying to make some games. The ponzi scam collapsed first though

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#23803 2 years ago
 
JJZ

toyotaboy

RandOM Pinball

US Allyn, WA

12y 184K 11,930 3 14

Quoted from benheck:

Robert also wanted to buy Pinball Life.
Industry is MUCH better off without this scumbag loon anywhere near it.

was his goal to just buy everything? hey robert berk, sell me chicago expo because i love pinball.

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#23804 2 years ago
 
BBJ

blueberryjohnson

Pinside+ Frequent

US Honolulu, HI

8y 101K 4,698 1

Screen Shot 2021-08-24 at 3.53.57 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-08-24 at 3.53.57 AM (resized).png
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#23805 2 years ago
 
DRK

LORDDREK

Pinside member

US Derry, NH

3y 70,800 1,153 13

Quoted from jawjaw:

Strange thing to me was that they didn't take any money from customers until late last year. Before that, they were offering refunds for those ripped off by Zidware. They hired a lot of reputable talent and had working prototype games. I was there at the show and they had a whole bunch of people there servicing the game. This wasn't like one guy promising to build hundreds of games in his basement. It was obvious the whole thing was mismanaged but seems like they could of at least built a few games with all those people involved.

Nothing strange at all about this. Deep rut was a steam engine that ran on cash. When the boiler pressure got low it was time to burn whatever they could to keep the heat on. It’s just too bad the rails led absolutely nowhere…

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#23806 2 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

Quoted from toyotaboy:

was his goal to just buy everything? hey robert berk, sell me chicago expo because i love pinball.

He wanted to buy a pinball company and Pinball Life and then sue everyone who wasn't him. He called them "nuisance lawsuits", intending to "slow other companies down".

The guy is scum. Nobody said anything earlier because he threatens anyone who blinks with a lawsuit. It's why you won't hear much from employees until NDAs expire.

Enjoy prison asshole.

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#23807 2 years ago
 
LEV

CrazyLevi

Crazy Levi's Pinball

US New York, NY

10y 148K 33,527

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

[quoted image]

Yeah this is kind of what I was saying when idiots kept pretending that Deep Root was some kind of "plucky underdog" who deserved our respect for his passion.

He wasn't an underdog, he was an obnoxious "self-made rich" (haha!) asshole who threw a bunch of stolen money around and insulted all the people in this industry who will actually make pinball machines and don't steal your money.

And people fell for it, again. It was all so of its era. It was not "underdog" behavior but people around here resent the people who actually produce pinball machines for some reason and are always desperately searching for some otherworldly alternative. The fantasy is always more appealing than the reality for some folks and that's why these scams will always - on some level - succeed. We've not seen any evidence yet to the contrary.

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#23808 2 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,434

Whatever happened to the tshirts he promised after calling out Jody Dankberg during their abysmal launch? I feel like the community should toss a few bucks together to gift a tshirt to Jody

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#23809 2 years ago
 
JHG

wolftownjeff

Pinside+ Frequent

US Madison, VA

12y 81,800 869 6 1

Quoted from LORDDREK:

Nothing strange at all about this. Deep rut was a steam engine that ran on cash. When the boiler pressure got low it was time to burn whatever they could to keep the heat on. It’s just too bad the rails led absolutely nowhere…

See post 17364.
Gone dead train.

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#23810 2 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

No factory?
No pre-sales!
No exceptions

That needs to be the Pinball Rule. Break it and you're out of here. Banned. Gone. One strike you're out.

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#23811 2 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,434

If Robert loved John so much he should have setup a coffee shop. I know Robert doesn't like advice from people more knowledgeable than him, but...

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#23812 2 years ago
 
JCS

jeffspinballpalace

JeffSPinballPalace

20y 242K 19,062 556

Quoted from toyotaboy:

was his goal to just buy everything? hey robert berk, sell me chicago expo because i love pinball.

So RM tried buying Spooky Pinball, JJP, American Pinball (maybe), Pinball Life and more. Could he have wanted to buy Chicago Expo too, probably why not? The fact that he was unsuccessful in each indicates he was not offering market value. When you offer something of little value for something with actual value, it shouldn’t be surprising the deals don’t work. I imagine Robert opened his meetings with, “give me your company and I’ll give you a box of freshly peeled banana wrappers.” Owner of Company to assistant, “who put this meeting on my schedule?”

649980B9-9844-4687-B79D-64F0D67A8490.jpeg649980B9-9844-4687-B79D-64F0D67A8490.jpeg
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#23813 2 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,434

LonelyForNow (resized).pngLonelyForNow (resized).png

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#23814 2 years ago
 
WLC

BMore-Pinball

Pinside member

12y 122K 4,981 33

Quoted from benheck:

No factory?
No pre-sales!
No exceptions
That needs to be the Pinball Rule. Break it and you're out of here. Banned. Gone. One strike you're out.

A shinny new factory is always a good start but not a guarantee
I will never ever preorder and pay for a machine from a company unless it is ready to ship - regardless of factory pictures and tours
I don't have any issues at all with FOMO - which helps a lot

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#23815 2 years ago
 
RJB

EternitytoM83

Pinside member

6y 55,050 827 1

I wonder how much it cost to sponsor literally everything pinball-related for like 2 years? Probably not much in the grand scheme of things, but for a while there I couldn't click on anything without hearing that cringingly stupid tag line, something like "A pinball for every home, every home should have a pinball machine."

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#23816 2 years ago
 
BBJ

blueberryjohnson

Pinside+ Frequent

US Honolulu, HI

8y 101K 4,698 1

I weep when I think of all the other great info that's probably out there that we'll never find because Bobby has a terrible name for googling.

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#23817 2 years ago
 
BBJ

blueberryjohnson

Pinside+ Frequent

US Honolulu, HI

8y 101K 4,698 1

Quoted from EternitytoM83:

I wonder how much it cost to sponsor literally everything pinball-related for like 2 years? Probably not much in the grand scheme of things, but for a while there I couldn't click on anything without hearing that cringingly stupid tag line, something like "A pinball for every home, every home should have a pinball machine."

And now, you can own it yourself
Screen Shot 2021-08-24 at 4.44.52 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-08-24 at 4.44.52 AM (resized).png

This one too
Screen Shot 2021-08-24 at 4.45.47 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-08-24 at 4.45.47 AM (resized).png

Key post
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#23818 2 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,434

Quoted from EternitytoM83:

I wonder how much it cost to sponsor literally everything pinball-related for like 2 years? Probably not much in the grand scheme of things, but for a while there I couldn't click on anything without hearing that cringingly stupid tag line, something like "A pinball for every home, every home should have a pinball machine."

It was "Every family needs a pinball...every pinball needs a family"

I don't need the ™ because they abandoned it in February this year. Silly trademarks was another thing Robert spent a lot of money on. He kept his buddy Jason E. McKinnie very busy between the trademarks, patents, frivolous lawsuits, and dead-beat-Robert lawsuits

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#23819 2 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,434

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

And now, you can own it yourself
[quoted image]
This one too
[quoted image]

You slightly beat me again.

I've gotten pretty good at using the free form search at uspto.gov thanks to Robert

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#23820 2 years ago
 
RJB

EternitytoM83

Pinside member

6y 55,050 827 1

It's even worse than I remembered!

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#23821 2 years ago
 
LEV

CrazyLevi

Crazy Levi's Pinball

US New York, NY

10y 148K 33,527

Quoted from EternitytoM83:

but for a while there I couldn't click on anything without hearing that cringingly stupid tag line, something like "A pinball for every home, every home should have a pinball machine."

Yes, I was forced to utter that moronic line into a hot mic during a PAPA tournament while doing commentary in the booth. Fortunately the sponsorship binge only seemed to be for one "season" and they were gone from the tournament scene before too long.

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#23822 2 years ago
 
JCS

jeffspinballpalace

JeffSPinballPalace

20y 242K 19,062 556

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

And now, you can own it yourself
[quoted image]
This one too
[quoted image]

Pinball is Easy ... is the one I want. Is it available?

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#23823 2 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,434

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Pinball is Easy ... is the one I want. Is it available?

Free to whomever wants it. I know just the guy to file for it!

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#23824 2 years ago
 
C F

frolic

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 149K 9,809

Quoted from benheck:

He wanted to buy a pinball company and Pinball Life and then sue everyone who wasn't him. He called them "nuisance lawsuits", intending to "slow other companies down".

The guy is scum. Nobody said anything earlier because he threatens anyone who blinks with a lawsuit. It's why you won't hear much from employees until NDAs expire.

Enjoy prison asshole.

The narrative that has ripped wide open this week is mind-blowing.

I saw him as a blow-hard that was doomed to fail for not following simple business strategy. I could not have predicted any of the rest.

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#23825 2 years ago
 
BBJ

blueberryjohnson

Pinside+ Frequent

US Honolulu, HI

8y 101K 4,698 1

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Pinball is Easy ... is the one I want. Is it available?

Quoted from TreyBo69:

Free to whomever wants it. I know just the guy to file for it!

Pinbar may end up being available, too, if Bobby and Jason don't get the lead out.

Screen Shot 2021-08-24 at 4.59.19 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-08-24 at 4.59.19 AM (resized).png

Screen Shot 2021-08-24 at 4.59.29 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-08-24 at 4.59.29 AM (resized).png

Looks like pinarmor is a little farther behind in the process. Hope there are no additional fees associated with getting these two across the finish line!

Screen Shot 2021-08-24 at 5.00.59 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-08-24 at 5.00.59 AM (resized).png

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Key post
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#23826 2 years ago
 
C F

frolic

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 149K 9,809

Oh, and for the record, I found the winner who has earned the ultimate "I told you so!" privileges. In the original jpop thread from over 10 years ago. The winner who can claim to be the first to call out the nonsense goes to:

Screen Shot 2021-08-24 at 9.02.30 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-08-24 at 9.02.30 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-08-24 at 9.02.48 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-08-24 at 9.02.48 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-08-24 at 9.03.08 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-08-24 at 9.03.08 AM (resized).png
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#23827 2 years ago
 
HBS

herbertbsharp

Pinside+ Frequent

US Ballston Spa, NY

12y 146K 6,106 23 24 2

Quoted from Inside:

There is another file that can be found here: https://enforcedata.dol.gov/views/search.php when doing "Search by Company Name" and deeproot. I can't format it right, but it appears to be the "BW ATP" which is "back wages agreed to pay".
$1.4M for 88 employees for 4/1/2019 to 7/5/2019 (95 days or 13 weeks/4days). Let's call it 14 weeks. That works out to ~$100,000/week or ~$5.2M/year in wages if you have 88 employees.
[quoted image]

I'm still thinking the possibility is he ran the investment dollars through a payroll company and diverted that money to himself rather than paying employees. He was probably stupid enough to think he was going to get massive amounts of pre-orders on pinball and be able to use that money to pay employees back (maybe only enough to keep them on the hook, just like investors in the fund) instead of manufacturing the machines. Given his behavior it would make sense he would then keep delaying pinball machine delivery and manufacturing, keeping the pinball deposit people on the hook. Ponzis within a Ponzi.

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#23828 2 years ago
 
JCW

LOTR_breath

Pinside member

US Fultondale, AL

11y 125K 5,675 9 101

I feel bad for all the ones who are out money and will never see a game.
But I feel especially bad for Steve Bowden. He relocated 1/2 way across the country and changed professions, all on the promises of this crook RM.
Maybe one of the other pinball mfg's will hire him. He is very talented and truly a nice guy.

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#23829 2 years ago
 
BBJ

blueberryjohnson

Pinside+ Frequent

US Honolulu, HI

8y 101K 4,698 1

Quoted from frolic:

Oh, and for the record, I found the winner who has earned the ultimate "I told you so!" privileges. In the original jpop thread from over 10 years ago. The winner who can claim to be the first to call out the nonsense goes to:[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Things change. People change. Hairstyles change.

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#23830 2 years ago
 
BBJ

blueberryjohnson

Pinside+ Frequent

US Honolulu, HI

8y 101K 4,698 1

OK, I've put in court records requests with Bexar County (hopefully through the right means!). Fingers crossed

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#23831 2 years ago
 
JON

bigehrl

Jackbar

US New York, NY

12y 97,150 3,829 79

Quoted from herbertbsharp:

I'm still thinking the possibility is he ran the investment dollars through a payroll company and diverted that money to himself rather than paying employees. He was probably stupid enough to think he was going to get massive amounts of pre-orders on pinball and be able to use that money to pay employees back (maybe only enough to keep them on the hook, just like investors in the fund) instead of manufacturing the machines. Given his behavior it would make sense he would then keep delaying pinball machine delivery and manufacturing, keeping the pinball deposit people on the hook. Ponzis within a Ponzi.

there are so many ways to launder money in this type of operation, i can't even list them all. and while the amount he laundered is a far cry from the most ever, there may be some kind of a record broken in the number of sources of the funds. he had money from investors, banks, pinball customers, AND the US Govt through PPP loans (i.e. us, the federal tax payers)!!! Hell, he probably even "borrowed" $20 from Steve for an Uber a few times.

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#23832 2 years ago
 
LRP

lpeters82

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 132K 5,285 8

It took a few years, but I think my question has been answered. Deeproot is "another layer of disappointment" in the JPOP story. Everywhere the guy goes more people get hurt. This has to be the end, right?

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

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#23833 2 years ago
 
BBJ

blueberryjohnson

Pinside+ Frequent

US Honolulu, HI

8y 101K 4,698 1

Quoted from bigehrl:

there are so many ways to launder money in this type of operation, i can't even list them all. and while the amount he laundered is a far cry from the most ever, there may be some kind of a record broken in the number of sources of the funds. he had money from investors, banks, pinball customers, AND the US Govt through PPP loans (i.e. us, the federal tax payers)!!! Hell, he probably even "borrowed" $20 from Steve for an Uber a few times.

Whatever methods he may have employed, I bet they were sloppy and easy to uncover. Guy doesn't sound like a meticulous mastermind.

If only he a couple fewer than 24 businesses to run (remember that one?)! Perhaps he could have crimed better.

Allegedly.

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#23834 2 years ago
 
ABC

Inside

Pinside member

6y 43,550 218

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

OK, I've put in court records requests with Bexar County (hopefully through the right means!). Fingers crossed

I was just there this morning. Pulled some records from 3 cases (4th case is a different RJM). $1/page so couldn’t get everything

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#23835 2 years ago
 
NTR

TheFamilyArcade

Pinside+ Frequent

US New City, NY

11y 104K 9,957 5 37

Quoted from pinballrockstar:

Anybody in the market for a signed JPOP magic girl proto drawing?
No?
I’ll make you a good deal!
No?
Okay…
[quoted image]

So John signs artwork he didn’t draw? Checks out.

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#23836 2 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,434

If JPop is allowed to make the prisoner uniform, Robert would be free forever

PrisonFallFashion-ReDux (resized).pngPrisonFallFashion-ReDux (resized).png

Post last edited 2 years ago: “tweaked the photo per suggestions”

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#23837 2 years ago
 
RJB

EternitytoM83

Pinside member

6y 55,050 827 1

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Pinbar may end up being available, too, if Bobby and Jason don't get the lead out.

Someone should open a bar/arcade and, since Barcade™ is already taken, call it the Pinbar™.

No bar-running experience necessary, just a bank account overflowing with other people's money.

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#23838 2 years ago
 
NTR

TheFamilyArcade

Pinside+ Frequent

US New City, NY

11y 104K 9,957 5 37

.

Post last edited 2 years ago: “Mixed up my modders.”

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#23839 2 years ago
 
BBJ

blueberryjohnson

Pinside+ Frequent

US Honolulu, HI

8y 101K 4,698 1

Quoted from Inside:

I was just there this morning. Pulled some records from 3 cases (4th case is a different RJM). $1/page so couldn’t get everything

Nice! Hoping if they provide them online there won't be a charge.

Check your dms for a file sharing site that looks simple. Though it sounds like you have paper records that would require scanning?

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#23840 2 years ago
 
JCS

jeffspinballpalace

JeffSPinballPalace

20y 242K 19,062 556

Quoted from TreyBo69:

If JPop is allowed to make the prisoner uniform, Robert would be free forever
[quoted image]

Excellent but needs the Deeproot logo on the purple jumpsuit to meet the new trademark request. Robert also offers a version where it says “... every prisoner needs a deeproot, every deeproot needs a prisoner.” tm. Someone needs to create a deeproot storefront selling these plus t-shirts with zany quotes from Robert Mueller. Might as well bring in some dollars, honestly. $5 of every purchase goes into the deeprootedandalligotwasthislousytshirt_575 fund. All proceeds go to buying t-shirts for victims of any deeproot fund.

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#23841 2 years ago
 
BBJ

blueberryjohnson

Pinside+ Frequent

US Honolulu, HI

8y 101K 4,698 1

Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

So John signs artwork he didn’t draw? Checks out.

It's why many thought he was the artist for so long and probably why some are still so infatuated with him making new games.

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#23842 2 years ago
 
BBJ

blueberryjohnson

Pinside+ Frequent

US Honolulu, HI

8y 101K 4,698 1

Quoted from TreyBo69:

If JPop is allowed to make the prisoner uniform, Robert would be free forever
[quoted image]

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Excellent but add Deeproot logo to shirt please.

More appropriate on the pants. In the back.

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#23843 2 years ago
 
WOZ

Pinballs

Pinside member

GB London

10y 52,800 992

As someone who was conned by Jpop for RAZA and MG the first time round, I just want to offer my condolences and best wishes to everyone ripped off by Deeproot. It's been so sad to read about all this

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#23844 2 years ago
 
ABC

Inside

Pinside member

6y 43,550 218

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Nice! Hoping if they provide them online there won't be a charge.
Check your dms for a file sharing site that looks simple. Though it sounds like you have paper records that would require scanning?

I’m going to feel pretty stupid if they email you back lol with the docs.

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#23845 2 years ago
 
DAD

NashtyFunk

Pinside+ Frequent

US Keller, TX

3y 81,550 613 11 34

Bout to see how good my credit card company is... This should be interesting.

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#23846 2 years ago
 
WOZ

Pinballs

Pinside member

GB London

10y 52,800 992

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

It's why many thought he was the artist for so long and probably why some are still so infatuated with him making new games.

Absolutely. It's the artwork that sold me on MG, and so typical that Jpop faked it as his. Even his letters had doodles that weren't drawn by him, and not only did he not include attributions to the actual artist(s), but he signed it himself! Behaviour of a serial liar and con artist, I guess. And of course plagiarist, which also applies to many of his mechanistic 'inventions', which he just ripped off previous machines.

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#23847 2 years ago
 
RUS

russdx

Pinside member

8y 60,800 2,084 5

would love to know after spending all that money what they was actually left with, its got to be more then 2 games?? it must be????

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#23848 2 years ago
 
LEV

CrazyLevi

Crazy Levi's Pinball

US New York, NY

10y 148K 33,527

Quoted from NashtyFunk:

Bout to see how good my credit card company is... This should be interesting.

If they can bail you out of this mess, I'd say they are pretty good.

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#23849 2 years ago
 
SMD

stevevt

The Pinball Co-op

US South Burlington, VT

11y 137K 2,690 1

Quoted from NashtyFunk:

Bout to see how good my credit card company is... This should be interesting.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

If they can bail you out of this mess, I'd say they are pretty good.

Make sure you don't mention that you were offered a refund that you declined.

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#23850 2 years ago
 
JSS

JStoltz

Pinside member

6y 62,050 822 4

Probably goes without saying, but the possibility that a handful of pinball enthusiasts performing armchair investigation might play some small part in Robert's prosecution (especially since the scope of this is much larger than just the pinball company)... truly intoxicating.

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