Boulder, CO
Raza review that I trust with explained reasons. All cued up for ya.
(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Topic Gallery
Quoted from 27dnast:Here’s the bottom line in pinball:
If you don’t want to get scammed, feel like you’ve been cheated, or disappointed in a game… DON’T BUY ANYTHING THAT ISN’T PHYSICALLY AVAILABLE FOR INSPECTION AND CODE COMPLETE TO YOUR SATISFACTION.
That’s what this all boils down to. From the slimiest of scammers to pins purchased sight-unseen with hopes of what the code, sound, call outs - you name it - might be. Period, end of story.
95% of the bitching and complaints in this hobby come from people that keep throwing their coin at the same potential problem areas.
same could be said for NIB buyers... people tripping over each other to be first and then kick and scream when they get 'bleeding edge' 
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The game was always terrible.
Any time you need to create new rules to fix a faulty layout - ie: hey it's not so bad that 9 out of 10 ramp shots on any RAZA where the front leg levelers aren't jacked up two inches falls into the pops, cause now you score points for that! - the battle is already lost.
It was a bad game. It will always be a bad game. It will continue to be a bad game in the future for whomever ends up with those two cobbled together prototypes. I do hope it continues to be trotted out at shows for the foreseeable future, or ends up at the PBHOF or somewhere the public can see it for themselves. Jpop/Mueller's folly could end up having some positive impact, if only it helps people avoid similar scams in the future.
While I tend to agree with game flow of your comments- the message to send here is never buy a game without playing it first for both flow and code. I can not call it a bad game, because as I have been advised over the years to play it first before I call it bad or good. No matter what people are selling you in this hobby.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Plenty of room for thought bubbles:
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Wow. If you could cry for help with your eyes...
Quoted from McSquid:No pinned posts in over a year
There is an index of key posts at the top of every page in the thread. I marked one a day or two ago. At least one other has been marked since then.
Quoted from cpr9999:While I tend to agree with game flow of your comments- the message to send here is never buy a game without playing it first for both flow and code. I can not call it a bad game, because as I have been advised over the years to play it first before I call it bad or good. No matter what people are selling you in this hobby.
That's just a matter of preference. I tend to love buying games I've barely/never played (though that doesn't happen much any more after 100s of games), as it's a new game! And you get to play it all you want! And won't be tired of it before your first plunge!
Maybe it's not smart for a NIB buyer, but let's face it; when you buy a game that actually EXISTS, from a company who won't steal your money, and it ain't for you, you can easily sell it and only lose a few bucks. We see this literally every time a new game comes out, people buy it, people sell it, and people post "Why are there so many X games for sale?!" threads as if it doesn't happen every single time.
Sending money on a questionable game from a company that has never made a game before is a whole different ballgame.
Stop doing it! Bad Pinside!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The game was always terrible. That was the most puzzling, maddening thing about it: You folks are opening yourselves up to lose thousands of dollars for what sure looks like a scam for THIS?
I’ll just never understood the time/money/emotional well-being squandered over this decade+ quest for a new Jpop game. It’s clear his peak was when B/W could get him over the finish line. Why couldn’t people just be happy with ToM, CV, and TOTAN? A fine trilogy of whimsical magical games. I enjoyed my ToM for a while & still have & enjoy my CV. Never felt the need to put him on a pedestal & squeeze something else out of him, when he proved with MG that he’s incapable. There’s a reason Stern & JJP never hired him. The B/W vets at those companies KNEW he’s a nightmare.
Quoted from Mr68:I will never forget when Levi described the PinPod video, likening it to an Office episode. It was spot on and brought it all into focus for me.
To me the PinPod "reveal" was somewhat akin to JPop's empty cabinet at Expo.
JPop never had any inclination as to what constituted real progress. I remember being treated to this picture as an example of the "progress" that was being made. Thank God for that NDA! 
Zidware pop bumper (resized).pngQuoted from CrazyLevi:That's just a matter of preference. I tend to love buying games I've barely/never played (though that doesn't happen much any more after 100s of games), as it's a new game! And you get to play it all you want! And won't be tired of it before your first plunge!
Maybe it's not smart for a NIB buyer, but let's face it; when you buy a game that actually EXISTS, from a company who won't steal your money, and it ain't for you, you can easily sell it and only lose a few bucks. We see this literally every time a new game comes out, people buy it, people sell it, and people post "Why are there so many X games for sale?!" threads as if it doesn't happen every single time.
Sending money on a questionable game from a company that has never made a game before is a whole different ballgame.
Stop doing it! Bad Pinside!
How about we stop sending money before pinball machine is made by a real or fictitious company. This would be better for the hobby and Pinside.
Quoted from Inside:Anyone can create a PACER account (it is called the Public Access to Court Electronic Records system after all). Only problem is that you pay $0.10 for every record you load (ie: pay per click!) so you can run up a bill pretty quick. It's also really really poorly designed -- it seems like every district court has its own site!
There's nothing interesting in there yet - only the initial filing.
There are lots of websites out there that scrape PACER data for you. CourtListener.com is a pretty good site that'll show you most of the the docket for free: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/60223430/securities-and-exchange-commission-v-mueller/ I think the way that CourtListener.com works is that people with a PACER account install an extension and then anytime they visit (and pay for) a page, it downloads it and sends it to CourtListener for public consumption. Sort of a crowd sourcing initiative.
So what's next in this case? I have a hobby of following cases and the flow is basically this:
1) Initial filing
2) Judge reviews, approves summons, orders the defendant to be served (~1 week)
3) If the defendant can be served, then they get a chance to respond to the complaint.
4) ... And then months or years of wrangling over technical details of the case.
What I'm trying to get at is don't get too excited - it'll be a while until we see something interesting.
I can't remember the threshold but you won't pay any fees if your monthly or quarterly is <$5.
Quoted from jonesjb:Just wondering about merchandise. Are any of these Deeproot polos available to purchase?
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Do you think Robert used the Deeproot growth runs deep funds to procure one of those nipple concealer pads to cover his belly button?
Merthyr Tydfil
Quoted from cpr9999:How about we stop sending money before pinball machine is made by a real or fictitious company. This would be better for the hobby and Pinside.
That's the first thing any new venture or project has to do now: STOP calling yourselves a 'manufacturer' straight out of the gate with your first announcement or game reveal. Even if you have the best of intentions and know you can actually make the games. With a few notable exceptions, damn near everyone makes the same error. All you're doing is putting yourself up early on the same pedestal as Stern, inviting comparisons of equivalence from the whole community, and without demonstrable ability beforehand of the niche you are carving out, that is not a battle you can survive.
Quoted from cpr9999:While I tend to agree with game flow of your comments- the message to send here is never buy a game without playing it first for both flow and code. I can not call it a bad game, because as I have been advised over the years to play it first before I call it bad or good. No matter what people are selling you in this hobby.
I'm with Levi - the game was horrible. You could see it in the video. It was a stinker. You can call that one bad. No need to play it. Trust me buddy.
Here's the cigar muncher you like... 
Quoted from okgrak:Hey I’ve got a Toto Neorest LE. It’s like a religion.
Hey! I'm selling my Joker Poker to get one of those! What's $5k when it comes to getting your puckered starfish hosed and fluffed? 
Anyhoo, I don't think that you're going to hear much from former or current employees (well, I think they're all former at this point). The SEC complaint is still just a complaint - there hasn't been a trial and there hasn't been any sort of plea for an injunction. This means that all of the deeproot companies can keep operating as they want!
Quoted from arkuz:Right 27dnast: I've greatly enjoyed this thread all this time, it's like a whole community to itself. But nearly 500 pages and 25K posts later, I guess the story can be summed up as simply as:
Robert Mueller = Bernie Madoff
That's not fair to Bernie Madoff.
deeproot would have had a better shot being named deepoop and making the bidet's you guys are talking about !
Would have been a whole different group of preorder buyers. Betcha the bowls would have been purple and featured the flushbar.
Might not have gotten the turd certification though or whatever toilets have to pass... 
Quoted from NoQuarters:I'm with Levi - the game was horrible. You could see it in the video. It was a stinker. You can call that one bad. No need to play it. Trust me buddy.
Here's the cigar muncher you like...
Thanks NoQuarters 
However I think the community would disagree - for example Munsters code. Game flow and layout is great but code was not up to par for many Pinsiders.
I know it’s good for you and me! But hey, we are like barely achievers in the pinball code world.
PS - cigar is for you
When deeproot IP and patents are liquidated, can some rich Pinsider please buy it all, then make sure RAZA and all of the other bullshit never sees the light of day ever again? Thanks.
Quoted from NoQuarters:deeproot would have had a better shot being named deepoop and making the bidet's you guys are talking about !
Would have been a whole different group of preorder buyers. Betcha the bowls would have been purple and featured the flushbar.
Might not have gotten the turd certification though or whatever toilets have to pass...
I bet it would need yearly DLC fees to get all the features.
Quoted from aingide:then make sure RAZA and all of the other bullshit never sees the light of day ever again? Thanks.
This!
Hard to believe that at my first pinball show I saw JPop with his light box. Hard to believe the CON continues today. Let's buy up the IP and have a huge party and burn this fucking RAZA games.
Quoted from beelzeboob:Hey! I'm selling my Joker Poker to get one of those! What's $5k when it comes to getting your puckered starfish hosed and fluffed?
It even comes with LEDs. You can’t say the same about some of the 90s pins showing up on the marketplace recently for 5k.
Quoted from Friengineer:This!
Hard to believe that at my first pinball show I saw JPop with his light box. Hard to believe the CON continues today. Let's buy up the IP and have a huge party and burn this fucking RAZA games.
Bill has stated DR never had the rights to make RAZA or MG in the first place.
So I guess that leaves SUPER CLEAVAGE ALICE IN WONDERLAND?
Someone with better writing skills than me should start a topic like “An open letter to future pinball manufacturers” that is like a promise from all pinball fans that we will no longer tolerate being ripped off and lied to. “Signed - All of us”
Unfortunately some pinball enthusiasts have goldfish brains and will be ripped off again in another year or two.
Quoted from mbwalker:I bet it would need yearly DLC fees to get all the features.
Yes I didn't like that. Pinball on subscription. "This multiball has been cancelled because your credit card was declined." 
Quoted from benheck:Bill has stated DR never had the rights to make RAZA or MG in the first place.
So I guess that leaves SUPER CLEAVAGE ALICE IN WONDERLAND?
Chris is adamant that the RAZA prototype should be destroyed and put an end to any speculation, rarity or 'value' once and for all.
I say give it to Bill. It's his IP, and if he feels the same way about it, he should be the one allowed to smash it.
Sorry if this has been mentioned before but I just realized that Magic Girl turned out to be Deeproots' biggest seller. 
Quoted from PismoArcade:Sorry if this has been mentioned before but I just realized that Magic Girl turned out to be Deeproots' biggest seller.
But someone else had to make it.
Another part of deeproot's online presence in need of an update in light of Cary Hardy's video:
Quoted from Inside:Who is Bill?
Bill Brandes. Google, Pintasia + Magic Girl
Quoted from Mr68:Bill Brandes. Google, Pintasia + Magic Girl
Also Millionaire Matchmaker 
Quoted from boo32:From the "Legal" section of the website
Payment
deeproot will automatically charge on a recurring basis the fee for the subscription plan you choose, including any applicable taxes, to the payment method associated with your Account. You can change your subscription at any time by accessing your Account. The applicable fee for an upgraded subscription will take effect immediately however a downgraded subscription will take effect upon expiration of the previously paid for subscription. If deeproot is unable to successfully charge your credit card or does not receive payment for fees due, deeproot reserves the right to restrict access to the Online Services and any User Submissions, delete your User Submissions, or terminate your Account.
Dear deeproot subscribers:
We wish to report that the recurring deeproot online subscription model has been retooled (just a smidge).
We recommend the 4th wife subscription plan with its more modest bling and unpredictable content.
The first three segments of the preorder season, including the Hawaii Adventureland episode, have been discontinued for lack of SEC certification. On behalf of deeproot management, please accept our apologies.
Update: 4th wife episode has been canceled. Stay tuned. ;>
2017: Throwback to simpler times OR were the flags always red?
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Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:Chris is adamant that the RAZA prototype should be destroyed and put an end to any speculation, rarity or 'value' once and for all.
I say give it to Bill. It's his IP, and if he feels the same way about it, he should be the one allowed to smash it.
Probably 1-3 prototypes but yes. Amazing idea. Ship em to Cointaker and livestream the bonfire.
Biggest shocker to date: Deeproot pinball has a non-Robert public relations agent???
https://deeprootpinball.com/contact/media
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It's go time, Liz.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/liz-pieri-95a018a/
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All of your training has prepared you for this.
May this tweet never be unpinned.
So sad, and I'm sure his father is rolling over in his grave
"68. Between November 2016 and August 2018, Mueller also spent or transferred
almost $330,000 of investor funds for the benefit of the MB Hale Ohana Revocable Trust, a
Mueller family trust for which Relief Defendants Mueller (in his capacity as co-trustee), his
father Jeffrey L. Mueller, and his stepmother Belinda G. Breen serve as co-trustees. In
November 2016, he wired $135,000 from a Policy Services bank account to purchase a Kauai,
Hawaii condominium that was titled in the name of the trust. In March 2017, he paid for
renovations to that property using a check for over $59,000 drawn on deeproot’s account. Then,
in August 2018, he wired an additional $135,000 directly to the trust from Policy Services’
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2021/comp25179.pdf
Quoted from TreyBo69:Ice drinks too much to remember being a fool
This ain’t his first rodeo and people still somehow listen to the financial advisor who backs all these grifters, charlatans, and mountebanks.
Then again his main big brain financial advice is buy Apple… Real bold stuff there
Well, buy and keep adding to AAPL and let's not forget the perennial darling of the NASDAQ; PINS. Just buy, keep buying and add to your position. Plan to hold forever. LLLLMFAO!
Every financial class regarding investments will tell you that ALL investments in stocks and funds will eventually turn to a loss.
OT:The Musketeers will experience this as well.
Halifax, NS
Just because Deeproot seems to be done for the final count as a pinball company. It does not mean any of these JPOP games or other titles done there will not see the light of day in the future. We will have to see who buys what is left & what they want to do with the assets. Could be they do nothing, could produce under license if allowed, or could just retheme stuff.
Pinball production is NOT EASY, but it is not impossible. Almost all real pinball manufacturers contract out parts production, & just do final builds. The other part is design & code usually done in house. But even that can be contracted out.
It is a free world towards speech but there are some (many) vocal people thinking they know it all here. See what more abuse I get here again. Even a small dedicated group with proper management, skilled staff, & resources can get games built. If you are a dreamer or have no game plan you are likely to fail.
Everyone has high hopes for Spooky, Haggis, P3, Dutch Pinball, Heighway, & even Homepin to advance in this tough pinball market with the big players. But time will tell in the future who continues on, & who might come to a end.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:It does not mean any of these JPOP games or other titles done there will not see the light of day in the future
JFC!
NO ONE WILL BUY THIS SHIT!
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Just because Deeproot seems to be done for the final count as a pinball company. It does not mean any of these JPOP games or other titles done there will not see the light of day in the future. We will have to see who buys what is left & what they want to do with the assets. Could be they do nothing, could produce under license if allowed, or could just retheme stuff.
Pinball production is NOT EASY, but it is not impossible. Almost all real pinball manufacturers contract out parts production, & just do final builds. The other part is design & code usually done in house. But even that can be contracted out.
It is a free world towards speech but there are some (many) vocal people thinking they know it all here. See what more abuse I get here again. Even a small dedicated group with proper management, skilled staff, & resources can get games built. If you are a dreamer or have no game plan you are likely to fail.
Everyone has high hopes for Spooky, Haggis, P3, Dutch Pinball, Heighway, & even Homepin to advance in this tough pinball market with the big players. But time will tell in the future who continues on, & who might come to a end.
If you keep this nonsense up someone may try to have you committed.
At this point Wayne’s Croc Hunter pin has a better chance of reaching production than anything deep root.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Just because Deeproot seems to be done for the final count as a pinball company. It does not mean any of these JPOP games or other titles done there will not see the light of day in the future. We will have to see who buys what is left & what they want to do with the assets. Could be they do nothing, could produce under license if allowed, or could just retheme stuff.
Pinball production is NOT EASY, but it is not impossible. Almost all real pinball manufacturers contract out parts production, & just do final builds. The other part is design & code usually done in house. But even that can be contracted out.
It is a free world towards speech but there are some (many) vocal people thinking they know it all here. See what more abuse I get here again. Even a small dedicated group with proper management, skilled staff, & resources can get games built. If you are a dreamer or have no game plan you are likely to fail.
Everyone has high hopes for Spooky, Haggis, P3, Dutch Pinball, Heighway, & even Homepin to advance in this tough pinball market with the big players. But time will tell in the future who continues on, & who might come to a end.
My god, man. THERE IS NOTHING TO BUY.
ROBERT STOLE . . . E V E R Y T H N G!!!!!!!!!!
It's definitely critical to keep trying to make these stupid games because one decade of wasted effort isn't enough and there also aren't literally an infinite number of other scandal-free themes that could be made instead.
We will see if no assets of Deeproot are bought. I predict a very slim chance of that. Even a poor man would take a gamble of hitting Gold! Even REAL Pinball companies just to shelve anything that might be there might take a gamble. You guys seem to know everything, time will tell.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:We will see if no assets of Deeproot are bought. I predict a very slim chance of that. Even a poor man would take a gamble of hitting Gold! Even REAL Pinball companies just to shelve anything that might be there might take a gamble. You guys seem to know everything, time will tell.
“I predict a very slim chance” is a very easy bet to make, dude.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:It's definitely critical to keep trying to make these stupid games because one decade of wasted effort isn't enough and there also aren't literally an infinite number of other scandal-free themes that could be made instead.
Well, eventually Robert will need to put together a parole plan.
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