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I noticed something was off right away and realized it must have been a recent adjustment because didn't have the same reaction to earlier ones
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Hope Jeff at TWIP will go on the record soon about what he saw behind the scenes at deeproot. Lots of privileged coverage over the years and at least one deeproot contest.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:I noticed something was off right away and realized it must have been a recent adjustment because didn't have the same reaction to earlier ones
Yup. I altered his face size in my meme for the lolz.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Hope Jeff at TWIP will go on the record soon about what he saw behind the scenes at deeproot. Lots of privileged coverage over the years and at least one deeproot contest.
I'm very much looking forward to Cary Hardy's follow up.
Never noticed this cheeky title. Guessing not a particularly recent change?
https://twitter.com/FunWithBonus
Screen Shot 2021-08-22 at 8.08.46 AM (resized).pngGotta hand it to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. They called it in Episode 65 (released August 6). They looked at DeepRoot Funds website and instantly said it looked like Bernie Madoff.
They were all over this sham from the get go…
Quoted from Mr68:I'm very much looking forward to Cary Hardy's follow up.
I really want to know what it was like to have to sit (stand) through that 20 minute Pinpod Presentation, being forced to endure that, and nod along stupidly while this dumb scam was unfolding before their eyes.
It seriously must have been Hell. I mean...four minutes in you are thinking to yourself "Why is this happening to me? How much longer do I have to stand here where this rotund asshole talks about a box and hurls some of the dumbest things I've ever heard at my face and I have to just stand here and take it? I traveled to San Antonio during a global pandemic to listen to this lazy PT Barnum knockoff drone on about a box and talk down to us like we are all six years old?"
"Total Pinball Ownership Experience?!?! Dear lord. Why. WHY? And now he's making us answer dumb questions like we are in 1st grade to give this ridiculous video some "pop? YES! YEs Robert, call on me, I know the answer!!! When a pinball machine is shipped new we call it New In Box! Do I get a cookie, or the long-promised 'Tex-Mex Lunch BUffet?'"
"This guy is insufferable and I just signed an NDA so I can't offer my opinions on him. And he's still talking about a box as if it's going to cure cancer. Shoot me."
I'm not even kidding. Cary, Colin...spill the beans. What in God's name was going through your minds during the Pinpod lecture?
Right 27dnast: I've greatly enjoyed this thread all this time, it's like a whole community to itself. But nearly 500 pages and 25K posts later, I guess the story can be summed up as simply as:
Robert Mueller = Bernie Madoff
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I really want to know what it was like to have to sit (stand) through that 20 minute Pinpod Presentation, being forced to endure that, and nod along stupidly while this dumb scam was unfolding before their eyes.
...spill the beans. What in God's name was going through your minds during the Pinpod lecture?
That's only one of three presentations we've seen that they went through, and hopefully untold others that have thus far been kept under wraps.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Plenty of room for thought bubbles here:
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Click for larger version:
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LMAO
Even with a mask on you can tell Colin McAlpine is thinking "Why the fuck am I here?!" While the guy on the right (Cary?) is literally praying this is all just a bad dream.
The 5 Days of deeproot has been revised :
Now The Five Court Venues of deeproot....
Starting with the first Venue : The U.S. District Court, Western District of Texas
Quoted from CrazyLevi:LMAO
Even with a mask on you can tell Colin McAlpine is thinking "Why the fuck am I here?!" While the guy on the right (Cary?) is literally praying this is all just a bad dream.
Cary is contemplating suicide by facepalm
Quoted from CrazyLevi:LMAO
Even with a mask on you can tell Colin McAlpine is thinking "Why the fuck am I here?!" While the guy on the right (Cary?) is literally praying this is all just a bad dream.
edited to add a few more gems
It’s going to be a jury trial. They’re going to have a heck of a time finding people who haven’t heard of exciting games like Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland, Food Truck, and Title TBD.
Quoted from Rarehero:As I sit here on my bidet, catching up on this thread while water is shooting up my butthole, I just wanted to say - “I love you” to my fellow sewer rats.
Carry on!
I had to count the syllables to figure out if this was a haiku or just regular poetry.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:I like this guy reevaluating all of his life choices that led to him being trapped in this room
[quoted image]
I have felt this way once. I probably wore that exact same expression, cause the guy selling the scam picked up on it immediately.
When I was a teenager, I needed a summer job, and I decided I was too smart for some min. wage bullshit. That's not for nice middle-class kids. So I brilliantly followed a sign saying '$11 an hour!! Call now!!" that were posted on telephone poles.
I put on a fucking suit and went to the "interview," which was actually a seminar all about money and how much of it I was going to make becoming the world's biggest pain in the ass to all my friends and family as I tried to sell them a set of knives. I shifted around uncomfortably through 20 minutes of bullshit until the head honcho called upon us for our one-on-one "interviews."
The guy called on me first, and I went into the room. "You have zero interest in this, correct?"
Yup! He knew getting me out of that room as soon as possible - certainly before I had a chance to discuss what I'd just seen with the rest of the marks - and dismissed me and I happily went out into the beautiful Maryland sunshine to my car. On the way home - literally, having just been slapped in the face with the cruel open hand of reality - I stopped in a MaCgruder's supermarket for a cattle call interview -still in my suit hahaha! - and got the job as a cashier/bag boy.
Fantasy is ALWAYS more attractive than reality, just like $11 an hour was more appealing than $6 an hour. But that $6 an hour paid for my college experience the next year, whereas the fantasy would have ended in nothing but heartbreak and me being forced to buy a bunch of unsold knives with my family and friends all fleeing at the sight of me.
Get with the program people. Next time a blustery jerk off like RM shows up promising you sunshine and fairy tales (innovation), don't get hooked. Just buy a fucking Stern game and go on with your life. It's better that way.
Quoted from toyotaboy:Shouldn't deeprootfunds.com be mandated to be shutdown by order from the SEC if there's an investigation into fraud? Like you know, to prevent some new person from losing all their money to Robert as well?
There will be RICO charges. This is the SEC.
You all can sleep well at night.
I promise you Robert is going to jail.
And iceman. I’m just shaking my head at you bro. Scum.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Hope Jeff at TWIP will go on the record soon about what he saw behind the scenes at deeproot. Lots of privileged coverage over the years and at least one deeproot contest.
I'd be curious as well, from those that could be honest enough to answer, how much silence was bought by the promise of VIP trips, etc? Forget about the NDAs and legal threats, simply that deeproot was promising "stuff" and that's pretty hard to resist.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Plenty of room for thought bubbles here:
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[quoted image]
[quoted image]
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The "deeproot theater" in all of its glory. I wonder how much money was spent for that 1 presentation?
It's amazing how deeproot can bring worlds apart, together. First, a fellow bidet enthusiast (well met!). Next, an almost vector marketing aka Cutco salesman!
(Note: Unlike you, I did sell the knifes for a few months and discovered it was demi-cultish, kinda like deeproot. They apparently have massive training conventions with all of these mostly late teens and early twenty somethings. Probably should have stuck around for one of those!
Alas, I bounced after a couple months because the managers were too into it, plus I didn't like being an imposition to friends of friends and family. Still made some good money and got a set of quality knifes, some of which I still use today!)
EDIT: Oh snap, this was in Maryland, too. But I've never heard of a Macgruder's so it sounds like our paths would not have crossed then.
Merthyr Tydfil
That people get caught up in a scam does not surprise me. We all have a tendency to want to be hopeful about new things we encounter leading to good outcomes. It’s one of the good aspects of human nature. I would wish people do more due diligence than they do so that we all remain less susceptible to scammers. But the scammers are more practiced at running the scam than we are at preventing the scam. I don’t think I have to resort to greed as the motivation for the scammed, but yes there is some of that.
What I will never get and find the most perplexing thing about human nature is the tendency to double down on their decisions even with multiple red flags abounding. We get the inevitable “you haven’t proved X” or “where are your facts to support Y ?” To accept the scam originally there was no proof of anything required, just optimism. To prove the scam is a scam there is now this mountain of evidence required which will be discounted as actual evidence by those already underwater.
It’s as if once using the emotional part of ones brain to be scammed in the first place, there is this new requirement for facts the be shown wrong, that wasn’t required at the outset. And let’s be honest - no amount or facts (well except for an SEC fraud filing) are ever going to be good enough to show the scammed the way towards truth.
If there were only a way to reverse this human tendency so that the facts come first before the emotional engagement we would all be better off wouldn’t we ? Or at the very least let the facts start to overrule some very poor emotional decisions., rather than be used as a worthless defense. Unfortunately I believe this will happen again and again and again, whether involving human relations, material goods, health, or politics. We just can’t seem to easily let go of a bad idea that we subscribed to can we ?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:It's amazing how deeproot can bring worlds apart, together. First, a fellow bidet enthusiast (well met!). Next, an almost vector marketing aka Cutco salesman!
(Note: Unlike you, I did sell the knifes for a few months and discovered it was demi-cultish, kinda like deeproot. They apparently have massive training conventions with all of these mostly late teens and early twenty somethings. Probably should have stuck around for one of those!
Alas, I bounced after a couple months because the managers were too into it, plus I didn't like being an imposition to friends of friends and family. Still made some good money and got a set of quality knifes, some of which I still use today!)
EDIT: Oh snap, this was in Maryland, too. But I've never heard of a Macgruder's so it sounds like our paths would not have crossed then.
Hey I’ve got a Toto Neorest LE. It’s like a religion.
Quoted from pookycade:That people get caught up in a scam does not surprise me. We all have a tendency to want to be hopeful about new things we encounter leading to good outcomes. It’s one of the good aspects of human nature. I would wish people do more due diligence than they do so that we all remain less susceptible to scammers. But the scammers are more practiced at running the scam than we are at preventing the scam. I don’t think I have to resort to greed as the motivation for the scammed, but yes there is some of that.
What I will never get and find the most perplexing thing about human nature is the tendency to double down on their decisions even with multiple red flags abounding. We get the inevitable “you haven’t proved X” or “where are your facts to support Y ?” To accept the scam originally there was no proof of anything required, just optimism. To prove the scam is a scam there is now this mountain of evidence required which will be discounted as actual evidence by those already underwater.
It’s as if once using the emotional part of ones brain to be scammed in the first place, there is this new requirement for facts the be shown wrong, that wasn’t required at the outset. And let’s be honest - no amount or facts (well except for an SEC fraud filing) are ever going to be good enough to show the scammed the way towards truth.
If there were only a way to reverse this human tendency so that the facts come first before the emotional engagement we would all be better off wouldn’t we ? Or at the very least let the facts start to overrule some very poor emotional decisions., rather than be used as a worthless defense. Unfortunately I believe this will happen again and again and again, whether involving human relations, material goods, health, or politics. We just can’t seem to easily let go of a bad idea that we subscribed to can we ?
I think there is a group of people who enjoyed antagonizing preorder people and were not making good faith efforts in presenting evidence to talk them into a refund. Some did but then took it too personally when they were ignored
It’s a common psychological phenomenon to double down on a stance when the people trying to change your opinion are hostile and belittling.
And then there are the cheerleaders who are rich enough that losing the gamble didn’t make an iota of difference. They encouraged sticking to it despite mountains of evidence that the whole business was fucked to the point of no return.
It’s ironic that this was considered the toxic thread when the preorder thread was an echo chamber of bad advice and shouting down logic
Pooky, a very simple answer to your question is this:
The easiest person to scam is someone who's already been scammed.
They're looking for a remedy, their money back, whatever. So any solution, no matter how fishy, is desirable.
Deeproot triggered me with their "double or nothing" offer in June 2019. (hence my "Bird in the hand" comment that triggered Robert so badly)
Now we know why. He was expecting a 50% margin on pins (ha!) that could "absorb" the ZW Goodwill payback costs. But a run on refunds would have drawn the fund even faster. Hence "double or nothing" to stay in which didn't cost him anything at the time.
Another red flag in a sea of them...
Quoted from benheck:Pooky, a very simple answer to your question is this:
The easiest person to scam is someone who's already been scammed.
They're looking for a remedy, their money back, whatever. So any solution, no matter how fishy, is desirable.
Deeproot triggered me with their "double or nothing" offer in June 2019. That's where my FAMOUS "bird in the hand" quote came from and also Robert's INFAMOUS LAST WORDS on Pinside as a response.
Benefit of the doubt, sure. But at that point, I could call a spade a spade. But I backed off because Robert is dangerous.
Sounds like he can’t afford to send C&Ds now though 
I’m only a little jealous I never got one. I called him a legal bully a few times just because it was obvious from the original “goodwill agreement”
Quoted from okgrak:Hey I’ve got a Toto Neorest LE. It’s like a religion.
Novita bh 93 here. But it's for a round bowl, I moved, ended up at place with an elongated one, and now my butt is probably as filthy as the rest of these peasants!
Quoted from TreyBo69:And then there are the cheerleaders who are rich enough that losing the gamble didn’t make an iota of difference.
You mean, The cheerleaders who are rich enough to *Pretend* that losing the gamble didn’t make an iota of difference.
Money is one thing but you are over looking one ginormous ego penalty and that's the real cost here.
Are there any key posts that describe the latest news that everyone is talking about? No pinned posts in over a year, and I've looked through about 10 out of the 470 pages in this thread and run out of patience. Haven't been following very closely.
Quoted from Mr68:You mean, The cheerleaders who are rich enough to *Pretend* that losing the gamble didn’t make an iota of difference.
Money is one thing but you are over looking one ginormous ego penalty and that's the real cost here.
Ice drinks too much to remember being a fool 
This ain’t his first rodeo and people still somehow listen to the financial advisor who backs all these grifters, charlatans, and mountebanks.
Then again his main big brain financial advice is buy Apple… Real bold stuff there
Quoted from McSquid:Are there any key posts that describe the latest news that everyone is talking about? No pinned posts in over a year, and I've looked through about 10 out of the 470 pages in this thread and run out of patience. Haven't been following very closely.
There’s a key post with the SEC case.
All you really need to know is Robert stole around $60m from little old ladies to fund his own lifestyle and dream job of being a pinball hotshot that built nothing.
Here’s the bottom line in pinball:
If you don’t want to get scammed, feel like you’ve been cheated, or disappointed in a game… DON’T BUY ANYTHING THAT ISN’T PHYSICALLY AVAILABLE FOR INSPECTION AND CODE COMPLETE TO YOUR SATISFACTION.
That’s what this all boils down to. From the slimiest of scammers to pins purchased sight-unseen with hopes of what the code, sound, call outs - you name it - might be. Period, end of story.
95% of the bitching and complaints in this hobby come from people that keep throwing their coin at the same potential problem areas. That goes for Raza customers… Halloween customers that aren’t lovin the early sound package… the list goes on.
If you’re willing to take the risk, and many of us are, just know that the responsibility of due diligence ultimately falls on you.
Sucks that this is our reality - but it is what it is.
I'm sorry for what this all did to pinball. The game we love.
It didn't happen. People working for or contracted with, their labors could have gone to other games and companies.
People didn't get games. People lost money. People had their hopes and dreams not come true.
And maybe worst of all during all this time. The dissension among Pinsiders. Instead of building relationships, many were torn apart.
I hope going forward relationships will heal and be better for all the people that posted in this thread.
LTG : )
Quoted from LTG:I'm sorry for what this all did to pinball. The game we love.
It didn't happen. People working for or contracted with, their labors could have gone to other games and companies.
People didn't get games. People lost money. People had their hopes and dreams not come true.
And maybe worst of all during all this time. The dissension among Pinsiders. Instead of building relationships, many were torn apart.
I hope going forward relationships will heal and be better for all the people that posted in this thread.
LTG : )
And the biggest shame of it all? The prototypes in Houston were not bad games! All they had to do was finish that.
No pinbar, no pincrate, just finish the good thing that was going there.
Quoted from zaphX:No pinbar, no pincrate, just finish the good thing that was going there.
But then no razzle dazzle?!
Hey I didn’t realize RM knew all along where this would lead, even set up a company for it ahead of time New details emerge from pinball news
https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2021/08/21/game-over-for-deeproot-pinball/
Deeproot Pinball was the sole subsidiary of Deeproot Tech, a technology company funded by two investment funds – the deeproot 575 Fund LLC (575 fund) and the deeproot Growth Runs Deep Fund LLC (dGRD fund) – through another of Robert Mueller’s companies, Relief Defendants.
Quoted from jonesjb:Just wondering about merchandise. Are any of these Deeproot polos available to purchase?
[quoted image]
Based on photos of Robert, only in one size (and not large enough)
Quoted from LTG:I'm sorry for what this all did to pinball. The game we love.
It didn't happen. People working for or contracted with, their labors could have gone to other games and companies.
People didn't get games. People lost money. People had their hopes and dreams not come true.
And maybe worst of all during all this time. The dissension among Pinsiders. Instead of building relationships, many were torn apart.
I hope going forward relationships will heal and be better for all the people that posted in this thread.
LTG : )
Like your perspective - I believe right on.
I also hope Pinside/moderators can look back and see what they could have done differently to better moderate topics like this for the betterment of the community.
Otherwise more dissension amongst Pinsiders will be common place which will destroy what they have created.
Quoted from Rarehero:As I sit here on my bidet, catching up on this thread while water is shooting up my butthole, I just wanted to say - “I love you” to my fellow sewer rats.
Carry on!
Well played, sir. Well played
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Novita bh 93 here. But it's for a round bowl, I moved, ended up at place with an elongated one, and now my butt is probably as filthy as the rest of these peasants!
My old Brondell Swash was leaking, so I just replaced it with a newer model…got some fancy new things like a night light & a hot air booty blower! I feel like I’m pooping in the future!!!
That's a lot of information there! 
Properly made me laugh, though!
Quoted from Rarehero:My old Brondell Swash was leaking, so I just replaced it with a newer model…got some fancy new things like a night light & a hot air booty blower! I feel like I’m pooping in the future!!!
Yup, mine has those too. Dryer takes a while but better than sticking your hand in a butthole.
Chilliwack, BC
Does this mean this whole Deeproot cult will finally come to and end. It just went on forever and seemed like a scam right from the start. I feel a little bad for the investors that got ripped off and the people that put down deposits. It's not up to Pinside to moderate. It's just one of those weird things about the internet or life in general. People that believe, want to believe and there is nothing the non believers can say or do to help them. The internet just makes it way easier to find other people that believe what you believe and it makes it seem all the more real.
Quoted from zaphX:And the biggest shame of it all? The prototypes in Houston were not bad games! All they had to do was finish that.
No pinbar, no pincrate, just finish the good thing that was going there.
The game was always terrible. That was the most puzzling, maddening thing about it: You folks are opening yourselves up to lose thousands of dollars for what sure looks like a scam for THIS? Badly designed game with a stupid, incoherent theme and a bunch of warmed over gimmicks trying to cover up for the lameness of it all?
Any time you need to create new rules to fix a faulty layout - ie: hey it's not so bad that 9 out of 10 ramp shots on any RAZA where the front leg levelers aren't jacked up two inches falls into the pops, cause now you score points for that! - the battle is already lost.
It was a bad game. It will always be a bad game. It will continue to be a bad game in the future for whomever ends up with those two cobbled together prototypes. I do hope it continues to be trotted out at shows for the foreseeable future, or ends up at the PBHOF or somewhere the public can see it for themselves. Jpop/Mueller's folly could end up having some positive impact, if only it helps people avoid similar scams in the future.
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