Quoted from Mr68:Please, everybody, stop with the religion talk. Just stop.
(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Topic Gallery
Quoted from flynnibus:The Morman label has all kinds of stigmas/stereotypes (not saying they are justified - just the associations are out there)
This proves the point.
Scandell is correct here. If Ben would have 'outed' someone (insinuating negativity) as having beliefs related to other religions, the conversation would be much different. I've seen The Book of Mormon on Broadway. Funny as hell. I just wish they made it about missionaries in general as the early colonial missionaries from all of the 'acceptable' religions were waaay worse.
Joking about anything is fine, but I do think writers should keep it generalized, like these guys did:
I'm an atheist, for the record.
Chantilly, VA
Quoted from Stemmy:Patents for sale get ur Patents
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What patents?
Quoted from Tranquilize:Joking about anything is fine, but I do think writers should keep it generalized, like these guys did:
[quoted image]
Blessed are the cheese makers….
This Deeproot shit was a complete joke from day one when i heard John was involved. I Never for a second believed one word of their rhetoric. Quad/octo manufacturing. EAs from Jpops last scam made whole. More units built than all other companies combined!! What a joke!! Jpop should be locked up and the key thrown away. Worst part is when he resurfaces and tries this shit again many of you will throw him even more money. Does this whole debacle really surprise anyone? Downvote all you want.
Sydney
Seems like the pinball part of DR was only ever window dressing for the actual investment scam. Either as something to bait investors or an easy way to show big losses and siphon cash. Maybe he figured pinball was so obscure no one outside the hobby would question or have any knowledge of what makes a pinball company successful.
The pre order money for Raza wasn’t the end game - that’s why he only asked for small deposits and even offered refunds. Was peanuts compared to the size of the scheme.
Maybe he also targeted pinball because he saw how gullible we all are throwing pre-order deposits around like confetti. He could easily create the illusion of a working, cash hungry business without having to do anything difficult like build a manufacturing plant.
Either that or he actually liked pinball and was using investor funds as a way to live out his fantasy of owning a pinball company. Didn’t he have a big top-end collection when he appeared in this hobby in the first place? Now we know where the cash for that came from.
Quoted from benheck:Promised Chris to talk on his podcast.
Going to be Zidware + theories, then Deeproot origins when he tried to buy Spooky for $0 in 2015.
The rest is up to the employees.
....tried to buy spooky for $0....wtf?
Quoted from Tilt_Birmingham:[quoted image]
Good draft effort but you must add Kevin Kulek aka PinCONning Pirate, to your most unwanted poster.
Quoted from flynnibus:The label wasn't used - because no one saw this as a way to make money for himself (or other investors) through attracting new buyers, but rather needing the money to keep the unsustainable going. (new money to pay off old debts). Ponzis usually are a scheme to make money... tho many fall into the same behavior to try to keep their sinking ship afloat. I think RM was more the latter... But just my opinion...
I don't think anyone called the embezzlement angle....
Ponzi schemes and “investment” scandals are embezzlement and one the same, so yes called it. (Flynnibus has issues with so many of us here on Pinside. He goes around downvoting many people, because many of his posts are not well received and he hates others getting any kind of recognition, other than himself. Although I think he does have some pertinent posts from time to time.) (Note to Flynnibus: Pinside is not all about you, even though you probably think so, as hardly anyone posts more than you do.)
Quoted from Scandell:So am I.
Got a problem?
Substitute "Mormon" for "homosexual", "Korean" or "Jew" and you be considered an ignorant bigot.
I'll admit my statement was in poor taste and generalizing.
But I'm not done outing.
Quoted from Stuieb84:....tried to buy spooky for $0....wtf?
Again with Kaneda I'll tell as much as I can remember from 2015. I really wish I'd kept his prospectus (evidence!) that had his insane ZW sales targets. I did keep the notebook though!
The Deeproot scam will be forever etched in the lexicon of the pinball hobby. The endless amount of quotes, one liners, and memes we can generate from this is near endless. Can’t wait until the term Deeprooted, or raza’d becomes the default terminology. We might want to start a short list for future tshirts and other uses :
- Deeprooted
- Raza’d out of your money
- ‘Icing’ a new announcement, pinball startup or title rumor. Or Ice-lighting
- Papaduped into putting down a deposit
- using ‘UL rated’ for marketplace listings
- octo-assembled
- pin-barred from the hobby
Creative group here. I’m sure we can come up with some gold.
Quoted from DCFAN:Congrats to jimwe5t from this Dec. 2019 post. You appear to be the first that called Deeproot out as appearing to be a Ponzi:
Thanks for that recognition. Wish I would have been wrong, for the sake of our pinball community. Flynnibus would never admit I correctly called it first. Lol (Even though had he done it, I would congratulate him.)
Quoted from benheck:I'll admit my statement was in poor taste and generalizing.
But I'm not done outing.
Yes. It would be better to say he had an outy belly button. As that’s what I heard.
Watch Marlon Wayans new special to know how bad that is.
Robert and Jpoop are scum.
Ok we absolutely must create a script for a tv movie entitled - Robert’s Ruse. There is already an abundance of source material, but throw in SEC trial transcripts, sex it up a bit and send extravagant jewelry (in evidence room) to juror pool. I guess I’d really prefer a mock trial with Counselor Blueberry serving as head prosecutor. He will need to be on his toes against Defender Iceman. A man who would grudgingly waive his fees in exchange for the sample RAZA (in evidence room). Ben Heck will be played by a Wisconsin Honey Badger, as they don’t care and neither does he. Casting is open for lead roles of RM and JPOP. Send in video of why you would make for a good Robert Mueller or JPOP.
The underlying insurance business they were in is...reprehensible.
I am sorry for those that lost more money to this years long scam. I somehow thought that when we got RAZA scammed the first time that would be enough to warn people off. Then I thought the lawsuits would be enough. Then I thought the shady, I mean so shady, insurance scheme would be enough. Hope springs eternal and without it most con men would not have an income. If Mueller scammed you, you are in good company. I have met some of you guys face to face and this is the salt of the earth here.
JPop got me too.
I will say that in my opinion no pinhead wanted you or anyone to get scammed. Especially the guys here. Even if we disagree no pinhead wanted you/us to get scammed. We all really wanted a cool pinball machine. So IMHO screw JPop. Forever.
Laval, QC
Honestly the whole thing would make for a great podcast or mini-series for streaming.
You got egos, hubris, fraud, good and bad guys, soon to be a trial, and pinball being the angle to make security fraud mildly interesting and memorable to the average person.
It really does make sense now why Robert spent so much on the animation stuff. He took JPops “good line art is all you need to sell a pinball” to the next level.
Maybe Robert got some money in selling life insurance policies, and learned dead people can’t spend money or their estate may not be able to go after relatively small amounts individually in court.
He then took it to the next level by targeting older people’s retirement nest egg figuring they’d die before they could figure out they lost it all.
The evil genius of Madoff’s Ponzi scheme was that he targeted a lot of charities and large university endowment. They were places that only needed an annuity paid out and were unlikely to ever suddenly cash out.
I wonder if Robert thought some of his investors would die off before it became an issue for him to own up to
Truly despicable stuff.
Quoted from benheck:Hey has Robert been outed as Mormon yet?
Yup. He's Mormon.
What are you implying with that statement?
Quoted from TreyBo69:I wonder if Robert thought some of his investors would die off before it became an issue for him to own up to
Truly despicable stuff.
It's comic book villain shit. Even as someone who had Deeproot written off as a scam from day one, I never would have predicted something this nefarious. More than anything, I feel bad for Deeproot's artists, programmers, and designers, who now have to deal with the fact that their salaries were being paid with money stolen from retirees, and that all their work was essentially for nothing.
Quoted from flynnibus:All that same stuff was called out years earlier when RM announced his goodwill offers with his non-sense about so many titles, mystical manufacturing abilities, improbable deadlines, etc.
The only thing really new of late is the confirmation that RM was co-mingling, confirmation that he was using the fund to fund pinball (which he never confirmed prior), and the confirmation RM was struggling to make his fund payments back to the investors. All the 'signs' about projection and impossible numbers were called out years ago... then the defenders just argued "but there is no pre-order money!!" But that too was not really accurate as RM has tried to lure people to upgrade their RAZA credit with fresh money in the goodwill deal. And then of course in 2020 he outright took pre-order money.
Come on Flynnibus, be a big enough man to give credit to others too. Like I said in the post above: you obviously have issues with so many of us here on Pinside. And go around downvoting many people, because it seems you hate others getting any kind of recognition. Although I’m big enough to recognize you do have some pertinent posts from time to time.
Note to Flynnibus: Pinside is not all about you, even though you probably think so, as hardly anyone posts more than you do. Lol
Quoted from Jaeg:Netflix biopic about RM will happen. Working title: From Pinbar (tm) to Fubar (tm)
Who will be cast for the main players?
Mueller as a less in shape Jack Black
Popadiuk by Danny Devito in a troll wig
Quoted from captainadam_21:DP might set a record for a ponzi scheme that lasted the longest after people starting saying it was a ponzi scheme.
Finally truth comes out. It was a ponzi scheme that lasted years while 90% of the people knew it was a ponzi scheme. Way to be on the ball SEC..not
Oh dear. Must confess to be taken in during the early days. I was on dr's side (and looking forward to new machines) from the point when refunds came through for the Zidware folk, right up until the VIP tour when things headed decidedly downwards. Would I have bought a RAZA? No, because I thought it was shit. But up until that point I would have considered one of their later machines. Massive kudos to those who spotted this way before I did, and huge condolences to everyone who lost out - including the investors.
Can we stop the religious debate and the memes and the purely speculative bullshit posting that is happening here and get down to brass tacks:
What's going to happen with Food Truck now?
Quoted from Zavadoza:What are you implying with that statement?
That robert is Jewish
So the only thing that’s strange is generally charges like this involve an arrest. Was Robert arrested? The complaint appears to be a criminal complaint vs a civil one
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:Wha? This entire thread has been a celebration of truth and skepticism for at least a year. Hard for Kaneda? What’s hard for Kaneda?
Wasn't kaneda trying to get someone to sell him their RAZA spot until very recently? It certainly seemed like the FOMO got to him until deeproot missed their update deadline. I can't remember when he jumped back on the hate wagon but he was actively trying to get someone to transfer their spot to him which suggests that he thought RAZA was happening until recently.
Quoted from thechakapakuni:So the only thing that’s strange is generally charges like this involve an arrest. Was Robert arrested? The complaint appears to be a criminal complaint vs a civil one
They will need to investigate all the claims against him. It looks like charges will come. It will take forever.
LONG LIVE THE DEEPROOT THREAD!
Generally this is done before and indictment or court filing. So this is interesting they filed and then are going to investigate after the fact.
I feel particularly sorry for the Pinball newbs that put deposits down partly because of the hype that was on Pinside. No sympathy for the old barnacles like Ice and Yelo as they went in eyes wide shut and had plenty of opportunity to pull out.
Btw, did any of the (3) smart people that asked for refunds get their money back?
And, why the f*ck did only (3) people ask for refunds!?!?! Zero sympathy for anyone who stayed in after that, newb or not.
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Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Ok we absolutely must create a script for a tv movie entitled - Robert’s Ruse. There is already an abundance of source material, but throw in SEC trial transcripts, sex it up a bit and send extravagant jewelry (in evidence room) to juror pool. I guess I’d really prefer a mock trial with Counselor Blueberry serving as head prosecutor. He will need to be on his toes against Defender Iceman. A man who would grudgingly waive his fees in exchange for the sample RAZA (in evidence room). Ben Heck will be played by a Wisconsin Honey Badger, as they don’t care and neither does he. Casting is open for lead roles of RM and JPOP. Send in video of why you would make for a good Robert Mueller or JPOP.
I'd love to see the original Blueberry Johnson, Michael Showalter, reprise his role for this classic character's next chapter. And I'd gladly sign on as a consultant to give him behind-the-scenes perspective for his performance ("Well first I did a googled a bunch of stuff. And then I googled some more. And after that, I googled some other stuff.").
If however Robert ends up defending himself, I want wall-to-wall coverage a la https://www.heinetwork.tv/the-trial/.
Quoted from benheck:"You gotta pay the Troll Toll
If you wanna get into this boy's hole
Ya gotta pay the Troll Toll to get in!"
Seems appropriate.
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Quoted from blueberryjohnson:If however Robert ends up defending himself, I want wall-to-wall coverage a la https://www.heinetwork.tv/the trial/
If that happens, I'll look forward to booking a San Antonio AirBNB that week.
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