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Quoted from benheck:The other thread is tearing itself apart, Lisa!
It's GLORIOUS!
Yep, it’s turned nasty in there. Went in there to have a look and was like…..
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Quoted from CrazyLevi:Let's go blow this guy!
I do kinda think trolling the "owner" thread is a little out of bounds. That's a safe space for those folks, if they want to come in for abuse they can come by here any time.
It is crossing the line a bit, but it is an entertaining read. There is blood in the water over there.
The "let's blow this guy" line is a classic. 
Quoted from benheck:The other thread is tearing itself apart, Lisa!
It's GLORIOUS!
This should be more of a time to stick together, rather than sharpening our pitchforks for each other. We will probably know in a week or so whether this is "really" over, or just another speedbump in the endless DR drama.
Either way a bit of civility is the least anybody should be able to expect. I am not perfect for sure, but I also don't expect any thank you cards for playing the "I told you so, look at how smart I am" card.
New York, NY
Quoted from BC_Gambit:This should be more of a time to stick together, rather than sharpening our pitchforks for each other. We will probably know in a week or so whether this is "really" over, or just another speedbump in the endless DR drama.
Either way a bit of civility is the least anybody should be able to expect. I am not perfect for sure, but I also don't expect any thank you cards for playing the "I told you so, look at how smart I am" card.
The problem with this is its not “I told you so, I’m smart,” it’s “I told you so, but literally any idiot could have seen what’s coming. A 9-year old German Shepard probably could have figured out sending deep root money was a bad idea. A cabbage realized this.”
It’s less of a brag and more of a sense of shock and disbelief.
Quoted from BC_Gambit:We will probably know in a week or so whether this is "really" over, or just another speedbump in the endless DR drama.
If a known finality comes in a week or so I'd be surprised. This could be in the run silent, run deep mode for a very long time, even though most people along with Levi's 9 year old German Shepherd have a good grasp it's done, has been done and was pretty much doomed from the start. RM and Jpop could be in vanish mode or have traveled to another dimension - one thats purple and has a Starbucks.
I wouldn't look for a concrete conclusion anytime soon - but it would be great for zidware refugees and the root preorder club to have closure.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The problem with this is its not “I told you so, I’m smart,” it’s “I told you so, but literally any idiot could have seen what’s coming. A 9-year old German Shepard probably could have figured out sending deep root money was a bad idea. A cabbage realized this.”
It’s less of a brag and more of a sense of shock and disbelief.
My German Shepherd's favorite game is AFM.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The problem with this is its not “I told you so, I’m smart,” it’s “I told you so, but literally any idiot could have seen what’s coming. A 9-year old German Shepard probably could have figured out sending deep root money was a bad idea. A cabbage realized this.”
It’s less of a brag and more of a sense of shock and disbelief.
So what you’re saying is that we can’t call the other thread “the cabbage patch”, because they aren’t smart enough to be referred to as cabbage heads? 
Quoted from NoQuarters:I wouldn't look for a concrete conclusion anytime soon - but it would be great for zidware refugees and the root club preorder club to have closure.
After skimming both threads, my impression is that a few of the preorder guys imply a secret knowledge of some behind the veil actions while others are completely left out of the loop.
After my Predator fiasco, I truly hope there is an amicable resolution for all parties involved.
Quoted from starfighter:After skimming both threads, my impression is that a few of the preorder guys imply a secret knowledge of some behind the veil actions while others are completely left out of the loop.
After my Predator fiasco, I truly hope there is an amicable resolution for all parties involved.
If some imply secret knowledge or whatever - it's probably just a coping mechanism to try to deal with embarrassment of being duped. I do feel bad for them . Nobody likes to be ripped off or figure out they may have used bad judgement when it comes to finances. Saying it was gamble is probably a way to make peace that your dollars are gone.
Yes - it would be nice if they got some money back, but I don't think it's likely, far from it. This has gone only one direction from day one - South. Hopefully not as many will be taken the next time something like this sprouts. But some will. Some have been fooled multiple times.
Quoted from starfighter:After skimming both threads, my impression is that a few of the preorder guys imply a secret knowledge of some behind the veil actions while others are completely left out of the loop.
Pretty much the same thing happened with the other collapsed companies. It was basically just hope, smoke, and mirrors. Or a last second scramble to try to get money back before the flood gates broke open.
I posted this in the other thread--I've been curious about what--if anything--is happening at the facility. Has anyone seen the facility in the last couple days? Are there staff still there? Is it sitting dark & idle? Has it been cleaned out? Have the doors been padlocked? Is there anything posted on the doors?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The problem with this is its not “I told you so, I’m smart,” it’s “I told you so, but literally any idiot could have seen what’s coming. A 9-year old German Shepard probably could have figured out sending deep root money was a bad idea. A cabbage realized this.”
It’s less of a brag and more of a sense of shock and disbelief.
I can be surprised too that people sent DR preorder money, even with all the red flags a lot of people saw.
Some people were able to overlook those. Some just wanted a cool game, some probably got greedy and thought it would be a good game to flip for a profit. Saying any idiot could have seen it coming is not super helpful to those who were just overly optimistic.
If someone was just in it for the greed, I can't be bothered to feel bad your gamble did not pay off. That is different than actively feeling joy for your loss. A lot more people seemed in it for the urge to see something different. And in their case we all lose because a DR that delivered on their crazy promises would have been an interesting addition to the pinball mix!
Quoted from wolftownjeff:My German Shepherd's favorite game is AFM.
Williams Bad Cats or Bally Dogies would have been my guess.
Looks like another DR account was recently tossed into the virtual waste basket (maybe they did end up hiring that janitor after all?).
Meet The 575 Fund:
https://www.facebook.com/the575Fund
Well, you can't meet them on FB currently. But you could at least as recently as July 20 (the last time it was cached by google):
Screen Shot 2021-08-08 at 1.53.41 PM (resized).png
And yes, for those wondering, that phone number is yet another that routes to the same "welcome to deeproot" robot lady (we're up to at least four of them so far).
And on the topic of the Deeproot 575 Fund (which has raised nearly $42 million to date), I just discovered that the SEC lists the names and contact info of its recipients in the various documents here: https://www.sec.gov/edgar/browse/?CIK=1652459
Toronto, ON
Ya, I’m not convinced this is the end of days for Derproot. I think they will limp along for a LONG time still. The wheels haven’t just come off the bus, the bus has been on blocks for years. It was never viable… yet, here we are.
I really wish it would just end for everybody’s sake.
It’s just a long drawn out car crash and I don’t have the self control to look away!
Robert is scrubbing the internet after being 8 months overdue and Iceman is fighting like a mad man over in the pre-order thread.
Now I've learned in life that an obvious conclusion is often wrong. But what could he possibly know or think he knows?
OK gang, here's some red meat: Current deeproot employee publicly posts that recently (unclear if July or August) the company closed down "temporarily" (and gives no indication the company has reopened).
Quoted from cooked71:Super slueth blueberryjohnson on to something there
yeah - got rid of the screenshot because don't want to potentially create any trouble for the employee - didn't link or show who wrote it, but would be easy enough for others to find (including even perhaps Robert, if he wanted to)
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:OK gang, here's some red meat: Current deeproot employee publicly posts that in July the company closed down "temporarily" (and gives no indication the company has reopened).
Source?
Quoted from MapleSyrup:
Couple that with the desire to “get in early” on something designed to explode in value.
People want to buy an imaginary pin that might hypothetically triple or quadruple in value so they can flip it. .
The ironic part is, I bet MANY of those owners hope they get their RAZA, then the company folds, so it's even more "rare" and valuable. And they say we want dr to fail.
Quoted from BC_Gambit:Source?
I removed it right away for the reason I wrote above. It's tricky to figure out what to do. I like to bring light to what's going on. I also don't want to potentially create problems for any staff, even if them innocently writing something that presumably is true should not create problems for them. In the end, though truth should not be punished, a boss can do a lot of things if they so choose.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:OK gang, here's some red meat: Current deeproot employee publicly posts that recently (unclear if July or August) the company closed down "temporarily" (and gives no indication the company has reopened).
The only guy working is that janitor they hired last month to clean the place up.
Robert wants his security deposit back.
One group I was dealing with went radio silent early last week. Still waiting to see if they talk again about pinball production. Not the group that bought me out which I know is not a Deep Root contractor. The mystery continues, & maybe they were very sly with me. If they go public people will see where my logic was. Still from what I know seems like if Deep Root was contracting out to a new upstart. They likely did not have everything to make games the last 8 months in mass.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:One group I was dealing with went radio silent early last week. Still waiting to see if they talk again about pinball production. Not the group that bought me out which I know is not a Deep Root contractor. The mystery continues, & maybe they were very sly with me. If they go public people will see where my logic was. Still from what I know seems like if Deep Root was contracting out to a new upstart. They likely did not have everything to make games the last 8 months in mass.
If DR is going the contract route, it will be easy to figure out their partner. There are only a handful of other outfits that employ lean and agile octo manufacturing.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:This group is under the radar! Not pinball related to most people even searching them out.
Come on John. Quit floating rational thoughts here. It’s NOT allowed!
Didn’t you get the pinside memo. DR has been declared “Deadroot”, game over. 
Btw, what have all the rolled up fired employees like Barry and Bowden had to say since losing their jobs?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:If DR is going the contract route, it will be easy to figure out their partner. There are only a handful of other outfits that employ lean and agile octo manufacturing.
Yeah I ain’t buying any of what has been floated on building with a subcontractor. 1) Subcontractors are ungodly expensive and expect to be paid upfront for establishing assembly. 2) You can’t just hand over a prototype game and say “make this”. Unless you have a complete set of build documents and verification and validation processes, what you are likely to get out of said subcontractor is garbage. Everything points to DR having none of this in place 3) With a subcontractor you have to sit on them and watch like a hawk unless you want flawed product. No indication DR even has the capability to do this (regardless of it enabling JPOP to sit on a stool, drink lattes and “supervise”). 4) No company in this business would touch DR with a stick
Quoted from greatwichjohn:One group I was dealing with went radio silent early last week. Still waiting to see if they talk again about pinball production. Not the group that bought me out which I know is not a Deep Root contractor. The mystery continues, & maybe they were very sly with me. If they go public people will see where my logic was. Still from what I know seems like if Deep Root was contracting out to a new upstart. They likely did not have everything to make games the last 8 months in mass.
A new starteup maybe, but I wonder if any established, respectable company would go into business with dr unless 100% funded up front.
And who wants an upstart manufacturer building their $10,000 pin anyway?
Quoted from pookycade:Yeah I ain’t buying any of what has been floated on building with a subcontractor. 1) Subcontractors are ungodly expensive and expect to be paid upfront for establishing assembly. 2) You can’t just hand over a prototype game and say “make this”. Unless you have a complete set of build documents and verification and validation processes, what you are likely to get out of said subcontractor is garbage. Everything points to DR having none of this in place 3) With a subcontractor you have to sit on them and watch like a hawk unless you want flawed product. No indication DR even has the capability to do this (regardless of it enabling JPOP to sit on a stool, drink lattes and “supervise”). 4) No company in this business would touch DR with a stick
One only reference DP and TBL. That went to hell within what, 50 pins delivered and the sub raised their prices to build by $1000 I believe. No way RM/Jpop build and deliver a pin for $10000 and make a profit.
Everything else aside..
Fortunately, DP is building and delivering pins, so they have risen from the ashes it would seem.
If you look at true upstart companies you can see that it is possible. Nice to see the new pictures from Australia, & Spooky picture put up for production. Many people have seen how true pinball production is done now & from the past. Even a guy like myself could easily guide a new group. Unfortunately Andrew Heighway only asked for a few tiny bits from me, & I would have guided him if he asked.
Quoted from benheck:The other thread is tearing itself apart, Lisa!
It's GLORIOUS!
Tearing itself apart??? Or was it you and several others from this thread that jumped in to stir up the pot?
Don't get why fellow pin collectors want to try to rub salt in others wounds just to "say See I told you so".
Quoted from greatwichjohn:One group I was dealing with went radio silent early last week. Still waiting to see if they talk again about pinball production. Not the group that bought me out which I know is not a Deep Root contractor. The mystery continues, & maybe they were very sly with me. If they go public people will see where my logic was. Still from what I know seems like if Deep Root was contracting out to a new upstart. They likely did not have everything to make games the last 8 months in mass.
Ha. Yeah just watch - "if you make our RAZAs for us, we will give you all our other amazing designs for free" AKA the same scam Jpoop pulled on AP. Build MG and get Houdini oh wait it's a fake game.
It is true other companies are entering the fray. And if it's true that Lyman left Stern and Jack is poaching their workers could be blood in the water for new people to jump in.
But if any company associates with Deeppoop or Jpoop they are doomed to fail. John is the Afghanistan of pinball designers.
Quoted from arcademojo:Tearing itself apart??? Or was it you and several others from this thread that jumped in to stir up the pot?
Don't get why fellow pin collectors want to try to rub salt in others wounds just to "say See I told you so".
Eh that thread was a powder keg of desperation. Greg and I just tossed in a couple matches.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:If you look at true upstart companies you can see that it is possible. Nice to see the new pictures from Australia, & Spooky picture put up for production. Many people have seen how true pinball production is done now & from the past. Even a guy like myself could easily guide a new group. Unfortunately Andrew Heighway only asked for a few tiny bits from me, & I would have guided him if he asked.
Didn’t the Lebowski guy rise from the ashes facing almost insurmountable odds and litigation pressure to actually produce games again?
Oh yeah, I have one of those nice “shinys” in the game room. Great pin!
Quoted from benheck:Eh that thread was a powder keg of desperation. Greg and I just tossed in a couple matches.
I have only been watching this from afar and rarely chime in, but why the need to be malicious? I understand if a lot went on between you and deeproot, but just leave it there...just be ambassadors of the hobby and leave the personal stuff out of it. Things would be a lot better that way.
Quoted from benheck:Eh that thread was a powder keg of desperation. Greg and I just tossed in a couple matches.
What’s up Benny? Surprised to find you here again. Lol
Quoted from ForceFlow:Pretty much the same thing happened with the other collapsed companies. It was basically just hope, smoke, and mirrors. Or a last second scramble to try to get money back before the flood gates broke open.
You mean like Lebowski? AP, where Jpop started and finished off MG for whatever it was?
A payday for Mitchell and the rest. 
Quoted from FlawlessJS:I have only been watching this from afar and rarely chime in, but why the need to be malicious? I understand if a lot went on between you and deeproot, but just leave it there...just be ambassadors of the hobby and leave the personal stuff out of it. Things would be a lot better that way.
What would be funny is if DR landed a subcontractor or sold to a startup.
We could watch Ben pull the rest of his hair out for another 7 years. Keep him occupied on Pinside instead of making games.
Like I said there are more people (groups) getting ready to join in the pinball machine frenzy 2022! You cannot go by the DP example, likely many things are not publicly known. Yes contracting out is hard, but it is done all the time for parts & actual whole pinball machines. If you try & do everything in house it is extremely hard.
Quoted from iceman44:You mean like Lebowski? AP?
The difference here is that TBL, Alien, even Houdini were good games. RAZA is not, the foam board John handed over for Houdini version 1was not either. One can rise from the ashes if there is a good asset to rise with. Starting material here is quite weak from everything we have seen from DR
Quoted from cpr9999:What would be funny is if DR landed a subcontractor or sold to a startup.
We could watch Ben pull the rest of his hair out for another 7 years. Keep him occupied on Pinside instead of making games.
Nah, lawyers would never be able to do something like that now would they?
I realize the financial part escapes Benny but $42 million………of investment advisors and their clients have a stake in those assets and Bobby I’m sure has his hair on fire to deliver something
And yes it would be GLORIUS to see!!!
Quoted from Roostking:One only reference DP and TBL. That went to hell within what, 50 pins delivered and the sub raised their prices to build by $1000 I believe. No way RM/Jpop build and deliver a pin for $10000 and make a profit.
Everything else aside..
Fortunately, DP is building and delivering pins, so they have risen from the ashes it would seem.
Just remember Ben was right in the DP thread:
0B25A3C2-965A-445D-AD68-DF35E62CC3CA (resized).jpeg“Back into” production and “into” production are two different problems entirely. The first is mostly a matter of money and contracts. The second (DRs problem) is that they very likely don’t even have the basic set of complete blueprints to much of build anything right now. That’s way way way farther behind the 8 ball.
There are likely production samples. Do you think that huge staff did nothing all these years. Lots of info at Deep Root or on hopefully secure servers. Buy Deep Root for next to nothing if they fail. Have money, good management, & staff to move forward. Same could happen with Homepin, weird things can happen in the pinball industry.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:There are likely production samples. Do you think that huge staff did nothing all these years. Lots of info at Deep Root or on hopefully secure servers. Buy Deep Root for next to nothing if they fail. Have money, good management, & staff to move forward. Same could happen with Homepin, weird things can happen in the pinball industry.
DR pinball and Robert have a fiduciary duty to the DR 575 fund as one of its “underlying assets”.
This isn’t a “ShitB” scenario where the guy was clearly a dunce.
Are we still standing by the “it’s game over” happy dance party line?
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