Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from flynnibus:Maybe you could record a podcast episode just reading the quotes from the thread... k thx bye
Though I have no aspirations for being a pinball podcaster, I do think it would be pretty fun to shoot the shit (and there is no shortage of shit) about deeproot sometime as a guest expert analyst. (@loserkid3, my dms are open)
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:If the money cannot be collected, TWC may file a lien as a permanent record of the debt owed to the employee by the employer.
record.gifQuoted from pinstyle:Can you imagine ordering a game and waiting over ten years to get it? Wow…..
Some folks here unfortunately don't have to imagine
Quoted from pinstyle:Can you imagine ordering a game and waiting over ten years to get it? Wow…..
Can you imagine being warned repeatedly by scammed pinheads and insiders to avoid ordering a machine at all costs and still ordering it?
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:I really hope none of those employees got screwed over. That would be one of the real tragedies of this whole thing.
At least one of those employees has said many times in this thread that they did.
Quoted from iceman44:It’s NOT an obsession. It’s just maybe getting a RAZA from Jpop finally because of DR.
Mitchell and the MG “shinys” got theirs from AP funded in part with my money. Never heard a peep out of me but if you are gonna keep throwing bombs and rooting hard that we don’t get ours then I’m gonna lob two right back at you.
Pretty simple don’t you think
I'm not rooting against you or any of the other prospective buyers, Iceman. I understand you've been through the mill for this title and think it'd be nice to see them actually delivered.
It just seems crazy to me that the incredibly long delays and the seemingly shady business practices are happening again.
Quoted from benheck:I'm done with this fake company. When it's really truly finally over ping me, then I'll tell my stories.
I feel ya. I need to focus my pinball energy on the more positive and create some pinball.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from benheck:I'm done with this fake company. When it's really truly finally over ping me, then I'll tell my stories.
How does Steve Bowden fit into all of this?
He went to DR as a voice of credibility and really talked up what was coming. I’m guess that a lot of us let his promising appraisal of the situation act as a good barometer of how real things were.
I remember hearing him on a podcast basically saying ‘just wait, what’s happening is awesome.’
There’s no way he was duped, right? If I’m not mistaken, he relocated himself to TX. He must have seen a total lack of manufacturing capability? If the warning signs were there when the media arrived, you think he would have been sus when he arrived, too?
It doesn’t make any sense.
Quoted from 27dnast:If the warning signs were there when the media arrived, you think he would have been sus when he arrived, too?
I think about the stories from the 6 VIPs, of Robert waving his arms around in an empty room explaining what was going to be there. And then rewind to 4 years ago or so when they launched, and imagine that type of pitch, combined with the money being thrown around. The lure of being recruited, being paid top dollar to do dream work of being in pinball. It would be a hard offer to pass up on.
Quoted from frolic:I think about the stories from the 6 VIPs, of Robert waving his arms around in an empty room explaining what was going to be there. And then rewind to 4 years ago or so when they launched, and imagine that type of pitch, combined with the money being thrown around. The lure of being recruited, being paid top dollar to do dream work of being in pinball. It would be a hard offer to pass up on.
Ok. Hard pass up, I get that. But that doesn’t have anything to do with telling a potential customer base that the world behind the curtain is going to blow everyone away. Know what I mean?
This is such a weird situation. Something doesn’t add up…
Quoted from 27dnast:How does Steve Bowden fit into all of this?
He went to DR as a voice of credibility and really talked up what was coming. I’m guess that a lot of us let his promising appraisal of the situation act as a good barometer of how real things were.
I remember hearing him on a podcast basically saying ‘just wait, what’s happening is awesome.’
There’s no way he was duped, right? If I’m not mistaken, he relocated himself to TX. He must have seen a total lack of manufacturing capability? If the warning signs were there when the media arrived, you think he would have been sus when he arrived, too?
It doesn’t make any sense. His reputation
But what’s Bowden’s reputation? Nice guy, truly elite player. But what else? He’s not an institution in this hobby nor any more a pillar of credibility in this matter than Barry Oursler or anyone else that signed up and is still there.
He went in bright eyed, bushy tailed and under strict NDA, just like every other rooter. He’s not the first or the last to join a company whilst being fed a load of bullshit, without any grasp of the real situation, the motivations of leadership and the desired end game. In fact, I’d wager most of us have done the same thing.
This ongoing JPOP/RAZA nonsense is, has been, and may ever be the biggest steaming pile of shit this hobby will ever see.
Quoted from Rarehero:Haha, good one!
Oh, you’re serious? They don’t exist. That’s why you haven’t played one.
Ah, they’ve been delayed? That’s why I haven’t seen any on location. I remember hearing about the zombie amusement park pin a couple of years ago and was definitely interested, it seemed like a kitsch theme.
I was thinking of buying one but didn’t want to put money down without having a chance to play - good thing I didn’t! Hopefully those who preordered get their game soon, do we know when they will be released?
Until I see pictures of what is actually there for production I am also out. Gave all the advice that I have for now. Like I said there should of been 25 - 100 RAZA pins built in house with the staff remaining the last 8 months. If not they wasted a lot of time & money for nothing! Even a small core of employees in a build contactor could of done the same. But I think the real story is lack of parts because of incompetence, vendors being wary to deal with them, & the constant bad news over the years along with the history of JPOP.
For now I will focus on helping other micro groups get into the REAL pinball business.
Quoted from jonesjb:Ah, they’ve been delayed? That’s why I haven’t seen any on location. I remember hearing about the zombie amusement park pin a couple of years ago and was definitely interested, it seemed like a kitsch theme.
I was thinking of buying one but didn’t want to put money does without having a chance to play - good thing I didn’t! Hopefully those who preordered get their game soon, do we know when they will be released?
You’re adorable!
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Like I said there should of been 25 - 100 RAZA pins built in house with the staff remaining the last 8 months. If not they wasted a lot of time & money for nothing!
Even jpop managed to hand build some Magic Girls in the back of the American Pinball facility.
So the problems go far deeper than the build. Clearly, they don't have the parts they need either.
Quoted from 27dnast:This is such a weird situation. Something doesn’t add up…
Ya think?
Quoted from jonesjb:Hopefully those who preordered get their game soon, do we know when they will be released?
Never.
Just make some tea and read this thread, all the answers are here.
Quoted from 27dnast:Ok. Hard pass up, I get that. But that doesn’t have anything to do with telling a potential customer base that the world behind the curtain is going to blow everyone away. Know what I mean?
This is such a weird situation. Something doesn’t add up…
He’s a fanboy who was offered a paying fanboy dream job. That’s all there is to it. There was no benefit for him to be skeptical. He was getting paid & working with a bunch of legit designers. He’s not the business guy or manufacturing guy….not his department.
Quoted from Rarehero:Never.
Just make some tea and read this thread, all the answers are here.
Real easy to read the tea leafs.
I think jonesjb was being sarcastic. We all know the answer.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:I really hope none of those employees got screwed over. That would be one of the real tragedies of this whole thing.
In cases like this rarely does anyone escape unscathed. More then likely there is a substantial amount of collateral damage to all associated.
QSS
Quoted from iceman44:Mitchell and the MG “shinys” got theirs from AP funded in part with my money.
Also funded with my money, which was $16,000 paid in full, unlike your tiny AIW deposit.
There were 19 Magic Girl owners and something like 20 to 25 MG games produced. Everybody on the MG list got their machines or sold their spots. *Everybody, not just me*. Even Iceman's BFF, wcbrandes got 2 MG's and I tip my hat to the man. Well done, Bill. I'm just sorry your friend is continually throwing you (and others) under the bus, trying to smear me.
I sold my pre-order spot, to Kaneda. After mine, others began selling and I was told at least one sold for $50K. Likely 2 of them sold for that. And from what I read from other sellers back then, I'd put the average MG sale price at $25-$35K in 2017.
Also sold long before mine were a string of at least a dozen RAZA spots for various prices.
In other words, people were making moves while Iceman choose to sit and yell from his keyboard, just as he continues today. The man is nothing but talk.
For a guy who has me blocked on Pinside, Iceman sure is obsessed with me.
Quoted from 27dnast:...
This is such a weird situation. Something doesn’t add up…
21,125 posts in and we all are still wondering.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:…we all are still wondering.
I wouldn’t go quite that far. Most of us can see where this is headed.
Quoted from Lounge:I wouldn’t go quite that far. Most of us can see where this is headed.
Exactly. People that have little facts are still wondering.
Quoted from Mr68:Also funded with my money, which was $16,000 paid in full, unlike your tiny AIW deposit.
There were 19 Magic Girl owners and something like 20 to 25 MG games produced. Everybody on the MG list got their machines or sold their spots. *Everybody, not just me*. Even Iceman's BFF, wcbrandes got 2 MG's and I tip my hat to the man. Well done, Bill. I'm just sorry your friend is continually throwing you (and others) under the bus trying to get to me.
I sold my pre-order spot, to Kaneda. After mine, others began selling and I was told at least one sold for $50K. Likely 2 of them sold for that. And from what I read from other sellers back then, I'd put the average MG sale price at $25-$35K in 2017.
Also sold long before mine were a string of at least a dozen RAZA spots for various prices.
In other words, people were making moves while Iceman choose to sit and yell from his keyboard as he continues today. The man is nothing but talk.
For a guy who has me blocked on Pinside, Iceman sure is obsessed with me.
I question those prices Kim. I recall Kaneda wanted to “corner the MG” market by buying Cointaker’s before refinding his brain. I recall he even welshed on Cointaker once realizing his sheer folly. And subsequently he also lost money on his MG sale.
Of course it wouldn’t surprise me if some rich guy(s) with nothing better to do paid stupid money for a MG. If so I’m glad they did. Because Magic Girl sucks and is basically unplayable.
Quoted from Scandell:Exactly. People that have little facts are still wondering.
Scandell you or any other fucked over former rooters file claims with the state for unpaid wages?
Quoted from Mr68:I sold my pre-order spot, to Kaneda.
He sold it to the Banning CA pinball museum, which is gonna be all auctioned off in Sept. Wanna finally get your MG, Kim? Buy it at the auction! 
Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:In cases like this rarely does anyone escape unscathed. More then likely there is a substantial amount of collateral damage to all associated.
QSS
Yes. About 119 preorders worth. 
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:I question those prices Kim. I recall Kaneda wanted to “corner the MG” market by buying Cointaker’s before refinding his brain. I recall he even welshed on Cointaker once realizing his sheer folly. And subsequently he also lost money on his MG sale.
Of course it wouldn’t surprise me if some rich guy(s) with nothing better to do paid stupid money for a MG. If so I’m glad they did. Because Magic Girl sucks and is basically unplayable.
I sold mine to Kaneda for $23,000 to start the ball rolling. And thanks to our Secret, ""SUPER DUPPER"", hidden Facebook group that Icy hates me so much for, I got to know all of the other MG owners and many shared their stories back then. The 50K sale was told to me second hand but if you can mentally go back to that brief time window, those $25K-35K prices are very real.
I say brief window because it wasn't long after Kaneda had received his MG, that his reviews started coming out. He video documented and began reporting what a complete POS disaster the game was. THAT, and that alone is what quickly drove the prices down. In my opinion it was a real Public Service announcement to the pinball community. Not so much for the MG owners though...
The prices are much less today as you are probably thinking and somewhat stabilized, but not like they were during FOMO season.
And you Nelson, you SOB, you got to play it for free!!
Missed this one from 2019: RAZA video game confirmed.
https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=358660244812967&id=282330622445930
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Missed this one from 2019: RAZA video game confirmed.
https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=358660244812967&id=282330622445930
[quoted image]
Here is the absolutely sad thing and missed opportunity. Imagine for a moment if they really did have top notch animation artists and that they had a pin in hand for them to play with. Let them go wild and add 3D AR to the game. Basically a Pin2K for the 2020s. Done right, now that would have been a true innovation people likely would have lined up for. PinBar not so much. That is where artistry would matter. Forget the back box display, the whole game is the back box. Lexi on steroids as it were. The ultimate fusion of physical pinball with all the mechs, and video game/virtual pin.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:We are all wondering .... where’s the Pinbar?
In the lobby of the Pinhotel
Quoted from Beechwood:In the lobby of the Pinhotel
Unfortunately, the PinPod(tm) is outside, as it cant fit through the doors.
Quoted from pookycade:Here is the absolutely sad thing and missed opportunity. Imagine for a moment if they really did have top notch animation artists and that they had a pin in hand for them to play with. Let them go wild and add 3D AR to the game. Basically a Pin2K for the 2020s. Done right, now that would have been a true innovation people likely would have lined up for. PinBar not so much. That is where artistry would matter. Forget the back box display, the whole game is the back box. Lexi on steroids as it were. The ultimate fusion of physical pinball with all the mechs, and video game/virtual pin.
What I suggested a few years back in this very thread. AR in pinball is the next big step, it's just a case of who gets there first.
I actually thought Deep Root were working on this tech, turns out they just farted out a silly Pinbar, which impressed no one.
IMMERSION, IMMERSION, IMMERSION...is the key to pinball's continued success into the next generation and beyond. The old farts left in the industry are way behind the times and should be taken out to pasture. How many 70 year olds do you see working at Naughty Dog or Rock Star?
New blood, new ideas, new innovations.....it's all uncapped and waiting out there.
I don't think AR per se, digital has done well, but I think overall pinball is always going to be a niche thing unless you go full blown gambling with them.
The whole resurgence is mostly timing sync'd with nostalgia age and money.
Quoted from benheck:I'm done with this fake company. When it's really truly finally over ping me, then I'll tell my stories.
Mr. Heckendorn. You have Pinside on line one.
zzzzzzz SW-mojo-blog-header-how to ping and other skype etiquette 3 (resized).pngQuoted from frolic:It's disgusting. Who can defend THAT?
The same people who cry about "wahh you want deeproot to fail but think of all the employees that will be hurt if that happens, shame on you!"
Quoted from Tranquilize:Can you imagine being warned repeatedly by scammed pinheads and insiders to avoid ordering a machine at all costs and still ordering it?
Can you imagine being warned repeatedly by scammed pinheads and insiders plus ignoring countless bright red glowing red flags spewing from the top of a volcano and still ordering it?
Quoted from Haymaker:Can you imagine being warned repeatedly by scammed pinheads and insiders plus ignoring countless bright red glowing red flags spewing from the top of a volcano and still ordering it?
Now this a mixed metaphor I can get into. Lava flags.
Quoted from benheck:I'm done with this fake company. When it's really truly finally over ping me, then I'll tell my stories.
It's really truly finally over.
Oh wait, you probably mean once you Robert says that. Never mind.
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:I question those prices Kim. I recall Kaneda wanted to “corner the MG” market by buying Cointaker’s before refinding his brain. I recall he even welshed on Cointaker once realizing his sheer folly. And subsequently he also lost money on his MG sale.
Of course it wouldn’t surprise me if some rich guy(s) with nothing better to do paid stupid money for a MG. If so I’m glad they did. Because Magic Girl sucks and is basically unplayable.
Well this may not be totally true! There is a MG out there that took 3 plus years to complete top to bottom to make it very very playable! Its also one of a kind and very different than the 21 others.
Kim, you are right, its always the squeaky wheel that gets the grease!
Quoted from wcbrandes:Well this may not be totally true! There is a MG out there that took 3 plus years to complete top to bottom to make it very very playable! Its also one of a kind and very different than the 21 others.
Kim, you are right, its always the squeaky wheel that gets the grease!
Hi @wcbrandes, do you still own the RAZA ip?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Hi wcbrandes, do you still own the RAZA ip?
That would be up to the courts to decide.
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