(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

1 year ago



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There are 5068 posts in this topic. You are on page 42 of 102.
#2052 10 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

VR = cool tech but nobody wants to wear that when gaming.

I bought a PSVR headset more than a year ago, thinking I would get a few hours of use out of it. I now do all my non-pinball gaming in VR (admittedly that is ~ an hour a week or so).

The VR community is growing, and more games are coming out on a weekly basis than I could realistically play.

Put it this way I am sure VR is is a hell of a lot larger than the pinball community, with a heck of a lot more room to grow

#2053 10 months ago
Quoted from pinballlife:

I wish them all the best. Pinball is a big commitment and getting it right always takes longer than expected.

I'm not wishing them anything! They hired a scumbag thief! THEY have to prove themselves to US!

#2054 10 months ago
Quoted from Zablon:

I know lots, including myself. Yes, it has its drawbacks, but it also has its fans. I mean, come on, Pinball was dead too according to the populous and currently even though it isn't cheap it is still cheaper than pinball.

That's a terrible analogy, as I don't think anybody has invested tens of billions of dollars in pinball lately.

People aren't spending that kind of money to turn VR into a niche hobby "that has its fans" that most people don't even realize still exists.

All the commercials I've seen (or haven't seen? They don't seem to be running them on NFL games this year) feature loads of happy families, old ladies, kids, all with these dorky headsets on giggling and rolling around on the couch, joining in on the hilarity and techno wonder as a family, shocked and stupified at the dramatically changed world they live in. I think we can all admit that hasn't happened yet en masse, nor does it appear to be on the horizon, immediate nor otherwise.

#2055 10 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

So much wrong with much of what you said...

The musings of a subject are rooted in fantasy. The truth is too much to bear.

#2056 10 months ago

I like to merge my VR and Pinball together in one easy package:

!!e!VRp!!WM_$(KGrHqJ,!hYE0fG)ZqRWBNP4Pt8huQ___1 (resized).jpg

#2057 10 months ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

crazylevi, yes, they won't wear it now, but would they if is was like wearing a pair of lightweight snow goggles or sunglasses? Technology answers these problems and people have to adopt it. As an early adopter, I lead the charge for new tech... and so VR pinball is something that is coming, I believe, just how or what we might (or might not) have to wear will definitely change, and probably be something we have not seen yet. And if they are all geniuses at dr, maybe they have something to show us, just not at TPF (or at all? )

No. the only way people can use it is by themselves. The VR interfaces preclude simultaneous interaction with the R/W and since it's either/or, people choose real world interaction for convenience, comfort and casual conversation. I hardly see people even listening to music anymore if it's not some loner kid with no friends. People escape from media rather than immerse themselves in it these days.

#2058 10 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

That's a terrible analogy, as I don't think anybody has invested tens of billions of dollars in pinball lately.
People aren't spending that kind of money to turn VR into a niche hobby "that has its fans" that most people don't even realize still exists.
All the commercials I've seen (or haven't seen? They don't seem to be running them on NFL games this year) feature loads of happy families, old ladies, kids, all with these dorky headsets on giggling and rolling around on the couch, joining in on the hilarity and techno wonder as a family, shocked and stupified at the dramatically changed world they live in. I think we can all admit that hasn't happened yet en masse, nor does it appear to be on the horizon, immediate nor otherwise.

That sounds like old man talking. Just saying. The #1 complaint isn't the visors, it is the DPI and the tether, both of which are being worked on. I doubt having a headset on is really ever going to go anywhere until some tech comes along that allows you to just wear some form of contacts. The VR community is way larger than the pinball community. VR was brought into this conversation as a failed tech -- I'm just pointing out that it isn't failed at all, but it fits because pinball will die before VR does - because it will continue to improve and get cheaper. Pinball will still be big, bulky, and expensive. I happen to enjoy both anyway.

#2059 10 months ago
Quoted from SadSack:

No. the only way people can use it is by themselves. The VR interfaces preclude simultaneous interaction with the R/W and since it's either/or, people choose real world interaction for convenience, comfort and casual conversation. I hardly see people even listening to music anymore if it's not some loner kid with no friends. People escape from media rather than immerse themselves in it these days.

What? So many people walking around with earbuds in everywhere I go or their noses buried in their phones.

I will say this - if a person here hasn't actually tried VR. I mean really tried it - then you really have no comment on the tech, you're just hating. There's nothing to hate about it, it is just another medium of entertainment / interaction. It will continue to improve over time. The problem right now is people are limited in their scope of how to use it and the hardware requirements don't scale real well to make it more realistic.

#2060 10 months ago

zablon, I agree, I played Beat Saber and Star Pirates, or something like that and it was immersive and time warpingly fun. I came out of VR thinking I had played maybe 30 minutes when I was actually playing for an hour and a half. The tech is getting pretty damn good.
The big thing for me was when my friend handed me the controllers. They 3d model the controllers and animate them in the VR UI, and you would almost believe when you grab the controllers they have turned you invisible. The controller is in "space" exactly where you move your arm, and it fools you almost completely.

10
#2061 10 months ago
Quoted from TheGunnett:

We all kinda new this was going to happen, at least they acknowledged it before Christmas. Blow your pinball dollars now, plenty of time until DeepRoot ever releases a game!

As I walked around TPF last year and saw all the deeproot 2019 marketing everywhere I just laughed. Anyone who thought they would deliver multiple games in 1 year was delusional. Been my problem with pinball for years, lots of talk - no deliver.

#2062 10 months ago

VR is soooooo 2013. Seriously folks, it's done. Talking about the wonders of it today is like those people who audibly gasp when the 3D kicks in at the movie theater.

Now I'd agree VR is the best way to make a "virtual" pin. You could just have the first foot or so of a pin, grab onto the flippers and rest is simulated. But we don't really want that, do we?

Nope. People want big bulky collectibles so their basement looks like a bar to remind them of when they were single. It's the secret (not so secret?) reason Heigheway's modular system would never take off.

Remember this is a hobby where people pay a $17,000 premium for different decals on a wooden box.

#2063 10 months ago

Can't you just feel the love emanating from Ben's whole being?

#2064 10 months ago
Quoted from yancy:

Can't you just feel the love emanating from Ben's whole being?

He's not really wrong though. And it pains me slightly to say that.

#2065 10 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

People want big bulky collectibles so their basement looks like a bar to remind them of when they were single. It's the secret (not so secret?) reason Heigheway's modular system would never take off.
Remember this is a hobby where people pay a $17,000 premium for different decals on a wooden box.

while people dream of having that awesome basement or outbuilding with the inside decorated like an old arcade, i'd wager only 5-10% of people in the hobby actually have the space or money to do so. Go look in the "gameroom thread"
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lets-see-pic-of-games-rooms

You see a lot of the "home arcade" people re-posting photos to show updates, but most people are posting photos have 2-10 pinballs in their basement, garage, many unfinished. If it is finished, it looks like a standard basement (standard carpet, standard painted drywall, minimal decorations on the walls). A lot of wives tolerate this hobby and don't want the house modified drastically to serve some nostalgic itch.

I have 3 pins in my living room because i only really have space to fit 7 in the basement because the rest is used for storage. id be happy with some sort of VR or GOOD virtual table, and maybe a handful of real pins. i dont need a 2nd full time job as an arcade operator trying to keep 30+ pinballs running.

#2066 10 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

VR is soooooo 2013. Seriously folks, it's done. Talking about the wonders of it today is like those people who audibly gasp when the 3D kicks in at the movie theater.
Now I'd agree VR is the best way to make a "virtual" pin. You could just have the first foot or so of a pin, grab onto the flippers and rest is simulated. But we don't really want that, do we?
Nope. People want big bulky collectibles so their basement looks like a bar to remind them of when they were single. It's the secret (not so secret?) reason Heigheway's modular system would never take off.
Remember this is a hobby where people pay a $17,000 premium for different decals on a wooden box.

Oddly, I have a virtual pin, and I know people have taken steps to make those 'VR' and of course there's the PC pinball studios, but I have no interest in that aspect of VR. I don't see any of that as a replacement for a real pin - but then you are also on a board of pinball enthusiasts. I know lots of people who love PC pinball and virtual VR pinball cabinets because I've been involved in that scene as well. It is niche. On this I agree.

I would assume you have a bit better pulse on where VR is going than myself - but I disagree about your thought of VR being dead. I can understand if you don't like it - it has it's many downsides to what it truly could be. I can even understand if that is because the key players have stepped back, but I think what a lot of people don't talk about is there are so many holdouts waiting for 'gen2'. who want better quality and cheaper. Who knows what or if that will even be.

Anyway - probably not the right thread to go to deep into this discussion..

#2067 10 months ago
Quoted from Zablon:

. I doubt having a headset on is really ever going to go anywhere until some tech comes along that allows you to just wear some form of contacts.

My mom ain't wearing no dorky visor and she as shit isn't gonna stuff some electro-contact lens in her eyes just so she can roll around the couch and laugh like those dumb ads on TV.

I also won't be doing that.

Just admit it: Pinball is huge and VR is a novelty which will soon be gone forever!

#2068 10 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

My mom ain't wearing no dorky visor and she as shit isn't gonna stuff some electro-contact lens in her eyes just so she can roll around the couch and laugh like those dumb ads on TV.
I also won't be doing that.

Congrats?

#2070 10 months ago

benheck, you say VR is dead, but how many are willing to give up hope on a Holo-deck experience so easily? When the two technologies finally converge, the one which currently exists, and the one which is so far advanced it makes VR look like bone knives and bearskins, humans will flock to it, no?

#2071 10 months ago

Don't forget to stay off of CrazyLevi's lawn.

#2072 10 months ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

benheck, you say VR is dead, but how many are willing to give up hope on a Holo-deck experience so easily? When the two technologies finally converge, the one which currently exists, and the one which is so far advanced it makes VR look like bone knives and bearskins, humans will flock to it, no?

It won't be Holodeck, much more likely The Matrix where you plug yourself into games and it interrupts your brain functions. Basically a video game dream.

But that's many decades away.

#2073 10 months ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

benheck, you say VR is dead, but how many are willing to give up hope on a Holo-deck experience so easily? When the two technologies finally converge, the one which currently exists, and the one which is so far advanced it makes VR look like bone knives and bearskins, humans will flock to it, no?

You said it better I think. I'm not looking at VR as it is at this moment. VR will continue to evolve, maybe slowly, but it has come to a point where people see that it IS possible. I think it is far from dead.

#2074 10 months ago

Benheck, it is decades away only if you let your mind convince you it is... I like to convince myself it is possible in less than a decade, that way when they do it in a decade and a half, I am not surprised.

#2075 10 months ago

You guys just can't wait for virtual sex, huh?

#2076 10 months ago

yancy, do not bring teledildonics into this discussion... I am a happily married man... I am not looking for VR sex. I just wanted to state that for the record... and in case the wife is reading this...

#2077 10 months ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

yancy, do not bring teledildonics into this discussion... I am a happily married man... I am not looking for VR sex. I just wanted to state that for the record... and in case the wife is reading this...

for someone who knows what the hell teledildonics is... fishy at best

im not even gonna google it lol

#2078 10 months ago
Quoted from yancy:

You guys just can't wait for virtual sex, huh?

You say that like it's a bad thing! No fuss, no muss, no feelings, no stds, no law suits 30 years later when you are running for office!

#2079 10 months ago
Quoted from Zablon:

no law suits 30 years later when you are running for office!

I really doubt that.

You think unsolicited dick pics are bad?!

#2080 10 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I really doubt that.
You think unsolicited dick pics are bad?!

Well... "i" dont.. But the restraining orders say otherwise.

#2081 10 months ago

VR will be huge in future, when graphics cards can push much higher resolutions (need higher FoV and DPI) at 144Hz and above (and FPS), and the HMDs match that. For now, it's a novel if expensive gimmick.

For pinball it makes zero sense, and DeepRoot would be exceedingly foolish to pursue it. Apart from HMDs, they'd need the GPUs to feed it. Way too expensive.

Holographic stuff like Pinball2000, why not? Although hopefully it would be selectively used, or wouldn't cover the whole rear of the playfield, as with Pin2k. Transparent LCDs covering or replacing the pf glass would increase costs hugely, be very prone to damage & failure, and have poor light transmission.

Small ones at the rear of the playfield, mounted vertically like in CV could definitely work, and I'm sure it'd be the stuff of JPop's wet dreams ... but why do it when from what Mueller has indicated so far, price and volume are going to be so important to them. It'd be costly, and I could foresee supply issues. Plus it limits what you can do towards the rear of the play area.

#2082 10 months ago

All I can say is very games like firewall zero hour are a great way to spend an hour here and there.

When in VR your mind creates more solid memories than just staring at a flat screen with a controller in your hand.

People are free to be wrong or will fully uninformed. Or even not enjoy things.

But VR has a bright future, hopefully pinball can keep up!

#2083 10 months ago

Real reality is better.

#2085 10 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

VR is soooooo 2013. Seriously folks, it's done. Talking about the wonders of it today is like those people who audibly gasp when the 3D kicks in at the movie theater.

You've obviously never experienced the joys of a virtual gangbang.

#2086 10 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

unsolicited dick pics

IMAG0029_1.jpg
11
#2087 10 months ago
Quoted from gweempose:

You've obviously never experienced the joys of a virtual gangbang.

I read the whole Homepin thread, does that qualify?

#2088 10 months ago

Well played sir!

#2089 10 months ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

But VR has a bright future, hopefully pinball can keep up!

Pinball doesn't need to keep up with something (VR) that has nothing to do with it.

#2090 10 months ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

Pinball doesn't need to keep up with something (VR) that has nothing to do with it.

Correct. Pinball has always done its worst when it tries to be something else.

#2091 10 months ago

Try to explain your neighbours, when they saw you wearing vr headwear looking down wile humping and slapping a wooden box...
With the deeproot logo and name on it in front of your d!€k.

No seriously its just pinball

#2092 10 months ago
Quoted from yancy:

You guys just can't wait for virtual sex, huh?

VideoDrome

#2093 10 months ago

That was one strange-ass movie.

#2094 10 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Correct. Pinball has always done its worst when it tries to be something else.

I don't need to be offered a virtual pin, pin FX, or anything else not pinball.
I invested in Zidware to have a cool, hopefully unique and collectable pinball machine.
I'm now willing to settle for a nice playable machine. Ok, thanks to Robert's goodwill terms a couple of machines.

And before I'm in assisted living... they may or may not want them in the dayroom.

#2095 10 months ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

I don't need to be offered a virtual pin, pin FX, or anything else not pinball.
I invested in Zidware to have a cool, hopefully unique and collectable pinball machine.
I'm now willing to settle for a nice playable machine. Ok, thanks to Robert's goodwill terms a couple of machines.
And before I'm in assisted living... they may or may not want them in the dayroom.

You are the first person I have seen who says they "invested" in ZW. Investors lose money a the time, better luck on your next investment. The rest of the "Buyers" should not have lost their money. Choose your investments wisely.

#2096 10 months ago
Quoted from Roostking:

You are the first person I have seen who says they "invested" in ZW.

Giving money to somebody or company, including JPop, for a product/something never made and only a fantasy vision, is always an investment or if you prefer, gamble. I always knew I could end up with nothing but fantasized it would be a great pin. If you had sent in money and were on Wordpress following the story, you would likely have been manipulated too.
If you didn't send in money to Jpop... STFU.

#2097 10 months ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

That was one strange-ass movie.

It sure was...

14
#2098 10 months ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

Giving money to somebody or company, including JPop, for a product/something never made and only a fantasy vision, is always an investment or if you prefer, gamble. I always knew I could end up with nothing but fantasized it would be a great pin. If you had sent in money and were on Wordpress following the story, you would likely have been manipulated too.
If you didn't send in money to Jpop... STFU.

You may not have put more money in, but you're investing more hope and faith in, " ..... a product/something never made and only a fantasy vision..."

At Expo, Robert confidently told us they would launch more titles (and have them ready to ship) in 2019 than anybody in the history of the industry, and it would all kick off in March at TPF. He'd been saying all year that they'd produce more units than the whole industry / Stern in their first year.

50 days later, he acknowledged their spending was unsustainable without a launch soon, pulled out of TPF, and 'hoped' the launch would be in 2019.

That's a pretty extraordinary climbdown, and it seems to suggest there's no chance whatsoever of them meeting the scale and bombast of his earlier stated goals.

To avoid major disappointment, or to be pleasantly surprised if they do pull it off, you might wish to reel in your expectations a little, rather than potentially falling into the same trap again.

#2099 10 months ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

Giving money to somebody or company, including JPop, for a product/something never made and only a fantasy vision, is always an investment or if you prefer, gamble. I always knew I could end up with nothing but fantasized it would be a great pin. If you had sent in money and were on Wordpress following the story, you would likely have been manipulated too.
If you didn't send in money to Jpop... STFU.

Wrong. A person invests in something to make money. You agreed to purchase a product from a company. What was the rate of return you were expecting on your investment?

#2100 10 months ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

You may not have put more money in, but you're investing more hope and faith in, " ..... a product/something never made and only a fantasy vision..."
At Expo, Robert confidently told us they would launch more titles (and have them ready to ship) in 2019 than anybody in the history of the industry, and it would all kick off in March at TPF. He'd been saying all year that they'd produce more units than the whole industry / Stern in their first year.
50 days later, he acknowledged their spending was unsustainable without a launch soon, pulled out of TPF, and 'hoped' the launch would be in 2019.
That's a pretty extraordinary climbdown, and it seems to suggest there's no chance whatsoever of them meeting the scale and bombast of his earlier stated goals.
To avoid major disappointment, or to be pleasantly surprised if they do pull it off, you might wish to reel in your expectations a little, rather than potentially falling into the same trap again.

History repeats itself.

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