Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from Roostking:Will you at least admit it was a quick pivot!
Meh... I think Metallica showed them how big of a reaction and how well the market would respond. But it still took them 4 more years of uninspired stuff like GOT, Mustang, etc before they tried again with Yeti and Ghostbusters. I think Ghostbusters was the moment that while it was not the first, it was the moment around which people pivoted to embrace the art style as a lead feature again.
Quoted from seenev:If deeproot starts making and shipping games would it be devastating to see them survive?
Two different things. They could ship a few games but not survive. Some in the pre-order group want exactly that. They want Deeproot to make and ship their RAZA any way possible, but don't care if Deeproot goes out of business immediately thereafter. They just want to get their rare collectible game.
Quoted from littlecammi:Two different things. They could ship a few games but not survive. Some in the pre-order group want exactly that. They want Deeproot to make and ship their RAZA any way possible, but don't care if Deeproot goes out of business immediately thereafter. They just want to get their rare collectible game.
No, it would be a disaster for collectors- no replacement parts for the pinbar, touchscreen, delorean glass lid, electronics.
Quoted from Yoreland:No, it would be a disaster for collectors- no replacement parts for the pinbar, touchscreen, delorean glass lid, electronics.
These things are for bragging rights, not playing.
Quoted from Yoreland:No, it would be a disaster for collectors- no replacement parts for the pinbar, touchscreen, delorean glass lid, electronics.
Doesn't matter to the folks that just want their 'uber rare' game to appreciate.
Quoted from flynnibus:Doesn't matter to the folks that just want their 'uber rare' game to appreciate.
It matters - I had an Alien LE after Heighway/Pinball Brothers went bankrupt and my butt was puckered every time I played the game - would the Alien tongue quit working? Chestburster tail snap off? Node board commit suicide?
I wasn’t sure if it was the horror theme or the “somethings going to break and there are no spare parts” thought that freaked me out more so it only lasted a couple of months before I sold it off.
Darn came into this thread expecting an update with 100’s of posts since my last checking in - anything new?
Quoted from cpr9999:Darn came into this thread expecting an update with 100’s of posts since my last checking in - anything new?
In a few minutes Crazy Levi will comment that your post is the same one we get every day by someone who just checks in and asks the same question. Currently, nothing new. You may return to your homes...
Quoted from cpr9999:Darn came into this thread expecting an update with 100’s of posts since my last checking in - anything new?
Come for non existent updates, stay for the lulz
Quoted from cpr9999:Darn came into this thread expecting an update with 100’s of posts since my last checking in - anything new?
No
Quoted from cpr9999:Darn came into this thread expecting an update with 100’s of posts since my last checking in - anything new?
Absolutely!
You definitely have a ton of catching up to do. The progress has been nothing short of amazing! Very exciting stuff.
I would summarize it for you, but I don't think I could give the same level of excitement than if you read those 100's of posts yourself. You won't be disappointed!!
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:To confirm: August is technically after the July 4th holiday?
Depends, there was of course August 2020. Maybe they are taking a time machine back in time to deliver the machines before they were up for pre-order.
PinHole (tm).
Quoted from Damonator:It matters - I had an Alien LE after Heighway/Pinball Brothers went bankrupt and my butt was puckered every time I played the game - would the Alien tongue quit working? Chestburster tail snap off? Node board commit suicide?
I wasn’t sure if it was the horror theme or the “somethings going to break and there are no spare parts” thought that freaked me out more so it only lasted a couple of months before I sold it off.
The difference is, most of them want dr to fail, just after they get the pin, for rarity sake. They are clearly not concerned with support.
Heighway seemed to be legit for awhile and produced 2 pins
Here is what is going to happen the remainder of this year & 2022. There are going to be numerous new companies or groups entering the pinball manufacturing world. My guess is 5 - 10, & they will be starting of small to Spooky, Haggis, Heighway, Dutch, etc. level of production. So 5 - 40 new pinball machines per week each. This is from around the world, not only North America.
My thoughts on Deep Root is one of the new groups will be their contract manufacturer. The pinbar might actually been figured out for production, not what we think it is. My guess would be some molded plastic or resin, not tradional steel with the screen built in. The first pin would be released around 150 units (RAZA) ramping up to what ever new demand is from distributors & others after the first 20 - 50 start going out. You go back to the old method of demand for your first pin & cut it off production 60 - 90 days of future production for that run. Never to go back! Get ready with all your pinbar models & keep doing it the same way. Once & done, build up buy it now, or find one later.
Wish more people would be more positive towards pinball production around the world. But I guess Deep Root is a easy mark with all the comments & lack of production so far. If they are going to move forward the rest of this year is the time to do it.
People have seen all the failures from 1980 to now, & all the new players who failed or survived the last 10 years. If you look at this you can see more groups would try their luck at pinball production.
I continue to consult with numerous parties. Who will likely enter the pinball scene this year, or early 2022. Deep Root & others in the industry can reach out to me if they want. You never know what the other major players might be up to!
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Here is what is going to happen the remainder of this year & 2022. There are going to be numerous new companies or groups entering the pinball manufacturing world. My guess is 5 - 10, & they will be starting of small to Spooky, Haggis, Heighway, Dutch, etc. level of production. So 5 - 40 new pinball machines per week. This is from around the world, not only North America.
My thoughts on Deep Root is one of the new groups will be their contract manufacturer. The pinbar might actually been figured out for production, not what we think it is. My guess would be some molded plastic or resin, not tradional steel with the screen built in. The first pin would be released around 150 units (RAZA) ramping up to what ever new demand is from distributors & others after the first 20 - 50 start going out. You go back to the old method of demand for your first pin & cut it off production 60 - 90 days of future production for that run. Never to go back! Get ready with all your pinbar models & keep doing it the same way. Once & done, build up buy it now, or find one later.
Wish more people would be more positive towards pinball production around the world. But I guess Deep Root is a easy mark with all the comments & lack of production so far. If they are going to move forward the rest of this year is the time to do it.
I continue to consult with numerous parties. Who will likely enter the pinball scene this year, or early 2022. Deep Root & others in the industry can reach out to me if they want. You never know what the other major players might be up to!
The old model of here’s a pin, order it now and it’s not being produced again just doesn’t work with scale production in the modern age.
Stern will make anything they have the license for for years with good reason (and re-up the license if the demand is there). JJP re-ran WOZ multiple times for a reason. CGC remakes the remakes. Even AP is still making Houdini for a reason.
Spooky hasn’t yet (they’ve been open about making TNA again) but they chose slow growth and put quotas on their games to match their production speed. They also only average around 15 games a week. They found a sweet spot between demand, production and quotas.
The common thread is make whatever sells because the line must be continuously feed once started.
It’s not the old days where a designer could bang out a fully featured game that buyers want within a few months. The market has fundamentally changed
I agree times have changed, but there is room for different production models. What works for the biggest players, might not be what is needed for the smaller guys.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I agree times have changed, but there is room for different production models. What works for the biggest players, might not be what is needed for the smaller guys.
But all the small guys do re-run stuff…
Or in Spooky’s case, is open to it for games with the demand that they didn’t promise a cap on
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I agree times have changed, but there is room for different production models. What works for the biggest players, might not be what is needed for the smaller guys.
Ill ask again, what benefit does any contract manufacturer have to gain by building 130ish pins? Unless dr has every $$$ up front.
Explain how it would be worth it, to go into biz with a company that doesnt pay its employees.
Quoted from Roostking:Ill ask again, what benefit does any contract manufacturer have to gain buy building 130ish pins? Unless dr has every $$$ up front.
Explain how it would be worth it, to go into biz with a company that doesnt pay its employees.
And it would probably be way cheaper for deeproot to refund people than to contract out games that they clearly priced before they understood the actual cost to produce.
Pulling the plug would be the easy route. But moving forward is possibly the better choice. Would be nice for Deep Root to explain their intentions, & what is actually going on. Do not think anything they say now would effect a fresh restart!
There is stuff I cannot get into with the multiple groups looking to get in to the business. If one is going to be a Deep Root production contractor they are likely looking towards more than just the first pin.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Here is what is going to happen the remainder of this year & 2022. There are going to be numerous new companies or groups entering the pinball manufacturing world. My guess is 5 - 10, & they will be starting of small to Spooky, Haggis, Heighway, Dutch, etc. level of production. So 5 - 40 new pinball machines per week each. This is from around the world, not only North America.
My thoughts on Deep Root is one of the new groups will be their contract manufacturer. The pinbar might actually been figured out for production, not what we think it is. My guess would be some molded plastic or resin, not tradional steel with the screen built in. The first pin would be released around 150 units (RAZA) ramping up to what ever new demand is from distributors & others after the first 20 - 50 start going out. You go back to the old method of demand for your first pin & cut it off production 60 - 90 days of future production for that run. Never to go back! Get ready with all your pinbar models & keep doing it the same way. Once & done, build up buy it now, or find one later.
Wish more people would be more positive towards pinball production around the world. But I guess Deep Root is a easy mark with all the comments & lack of production so far. If they are going to move forward the rest of this year is the time to do it.
People have seen all the failures from 1980 to now, & all the new players who failed or survived the last 10 years. If you look at this you can see more groups would try their luck at pinball production.
I continue to consult with numerous parties. Who will likely enter the pinball scene this year, or early 2022. Deep Root & others in the industry can reach out to me if they want. You never know what the other major players might be up to!
Did this come to you in an ayahuasca vision?
Quoted from Roostking:Ill ask again, what benefit does any contract manufacturer have to gain by building 130ish pins? Unless dr has every $$$ up front.
Explain how it would be worth it, to go into biz with a company that doesnt pay its employees.
Not happening. Even if they paid up front who would whore for them - Nobody - Too much stink on DR. Would be foolish to do so.
Thoughts of this is just plain dopey talk. You know this. I know this. Should be pretty obvious to most ....
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Here is what is going to happen the remainder of this year & 2022. There are going to be numerous new companies or groups entering the pinball manufacturing world. My guess is 5 - 10, & they will be starting of small to Spooky, Haggis, Heighway, Dutch, etc. level of production. So 5 - 40 new pinball machines per week each. This is from around the world, not only North America.
My thoughts on Deep Root is one of the new groups will be their contract manufacturer. The pinbar might actually been figured out for production, not what we think it is. My guess would be some molded plastic or resin, not tradional steel with the screen built in. The first pin would be released around 150 units (RAZA) ramping up to what ever new demand is from distributors & others after the first 20 - 50 start going out. You go back to the old method of demand for your first pin & cut it off production 60 - 90 days of future production for that run. Never to go back! Get ready with all your pinbar models & keep doing it the same way. Once & done, build up buy it now, or find one later.
Wish more people would be more positive towards pinball production around the world. But I guess Deep Root is a easy mark with all the comments & lack of production so far. If they are going to move forward the rest of this year is the time to do it.
People have seen all the failures from 1980 to now, & all the new players who failed or survived the last 10 years. If you look at this you can see more groups would try their luck at pinball production.
I continue to consult with numerous parties. Who will likely enter the pinball scene this year, or early 2022. Deep Root & others in the industry can reach out to me if they want. You never know what the other major players might be up to!
I really have no clue what you’re going on about.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Did this come to you in an ayahuasca vision?
Had to look that one up. You might be on the mark.
Still not drinking. Just my opinion on what might be going on with Deep Root. As for the multiple new groups talked with them today! People can believe me or not. People in the business know who I am over the many years, & you can see my true name & location posted. Even gave out my phone number.
I miss going to the pinball shows & seeing the industry people. Some of us are very friendly & try to help out the pinball industry. One of them, & wish for more pinball choices!
Quoted from NoQuarters:Not happening. Even if they paid up front who would whore for them - Nobody - Too much stink on DR. Would be foolish to do so.
Thoughts of this is just plain dopey talk. You know this. I know this. Should be pretty obvious to most ....
To any contractor who might consider this:
1) Charge 3X what it costs
2) Have an IRON-CLAD indemnity clause in the contract saying DR cannot sue you now or ever for any reason, as a condition of supplying said service.
Quoted from benheck:To any contractor who might consider this:
1) Charge 3X what it costs
2) Have an IRON-CLAD indemnity clause in the contract saying DR cannot sue you now or ever for any reason, as a condition of supplying said service.
A deep-suit agreement. 
People in the industry say crazy things at times. Same with the rights owners. But in the end if you are determined to do something in this industry you work it out, & move forward. I know from past experiences good & bad. My thoughts & I hope for everyone in this brutal business to not fail!
More companies producing more games is good for everyone, & things need to change to bring back location pinball to the level of the early glory days of new electronics.
Quoted from flynnibus:Meh... I think Metallica showed them how big of a reaction and how well the market would respond. But it still took them 4 more years of uninspired stuff like GOT, Mustang, etc before they tried again with Yeti and Ghostbusters. I think Ghostbusters was the moment that while it was not the first, it was the moment around which people pivoted to embrace the art style as a lead feature again.
I spoke to Dirty Donny at the 2019 Golden State Pinball Festival.
He told me that when stern was negotiating with Metallica to do the game that stern wanted nothing to do with Donny or his art.
Metallica put their foot down and said no Donny, no game.
So we partly have Metallica to thank for the renaissance in good pinball art.
Quoted from NoQuarters:Not happening. Even if they paid up front who would whore for them - Nobody - Too much stink on DR. Would be foolish to do so.
Thoughts of this is just plain dopey talk. You know this. I know this. Should be pretty obvious to most ....
I know, thats why I want to guy who thinks it could happen to lay out a plausible plan, that could make it happen.
Quoted from Damonator:It matters - I had an Alien LE after Heighway/Pinball Brothers went bankrupt and my butt was puckered every time I played the game - would the Alien tongue quit working? Chestburster tail snap off? Node board commit suicide?
I wasn’t sure if it was the horror theme or the “somethings going to break and there are no spare parts” thought that freaked me out more so it only lasted a couple of months before I sold it off.
Man my Alien LE has been rock solid Damonator! Actually not true, I did have a spare xeno head I replaced after piece of plastic broke off of original. Fixed it though for a backup.
I followed Mark’s bulletproof ideas and added his amazing apron and flasher mod.
Anyhow, I love that game and am glad that others will now get to enjoy it if they like.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:People in the industry say crazy things at times. Same with the rights owners. But in the end if you are determined to do something in this industry you work it out, & move forward. I know from past experiences good & bad. My thoughts & I hope for everyone in this brutal business to not fail!
More companies producing more games is good for everyone, & things need to change to bring back location pinball to the level of the early glory days of new electronics.
You are in the wrong thread John with that kind of thinking!
And you won’t change any minds here. Like a bunch of vultures flying over a dying animal.
For the record, I don’t need another game and won’t lose an ounce of sleep if it never comes, but I agree with your positive sentiment and outlook. Keep it up! 
Why some people can’t understand the concept that DR have an option to take the money or the game is beyond me?
I didn’t want the $$$, I rolled the dice on the game. Wtf, it’s been how many years now since this Raza debacle started?
I’m seeing it out to the end without the least bit of concern either way. I had nothing before this DR offer. It’s been a crazy drama filled journey. “It’s just pinball”
Quoted from Damonator:It matters - I had an Alien LE after Heighway/Pinball Brothers
It should... but largely doesn't. Lots of games with unobtanium parts. Alien? HWP was down the toilet... yet aliens were selling for over 13k.
Look at Magic Girl... it's not even really a playable game. Still demands high prices.
As long as the game is considered 'desirable' (unlike say.. cosmic carnival) these folks are all betting on their gamble being a jackpot.
Quoted from flynnibus:It should... but largely doesn't. Lots of games with unobtanium parts. Alien? HWP was down the toilet... yet aliens were selling for over 13k.
Look at Magic Girl... it's not even really a playable game. Still demands high prices.
As long as the game is considered 'desirable' (unlike say.. cosmic carnival) these folks are all betting on their gamble being a jackpot.
In that vein I’ve never understood why pinball is virtually the only hobby where older does not mean more expensive. Early flipper games go for a pittance, and some of them due to their usual firewood end are rarer than rare. Even if giving up functionality and just looking at them as works of art they are way undervalued. I am afraid that even if RAZA makes it off the line it is unlikely to command major premiums that people hope it will. Think Genco or Playmatic, not Bally Gottlieb or Williams.
Quoted from iceman44:And you won’t change any minds here. Like a bunch of vultures flying over a dying animal.
Dude, it's been 10 years. More like the zombified carcass of the animal that's been eaten and regurgitated twice, then reanimated by necromancer mueller.
It. Just. Won't. DIE!
Quoted from pookycade:In that vein I’ve never understood why pinball is virtually the only hobby where older does not mean more expensive. Early flipper games go for a pittance, and some of them due to their usual firewood end are rarer than rare. Even if giving up functionality and just looking at them as works of art they are way undervalued. I am afraid that even if RAZA makes it off the line it is unlikely to command major premiums that people hope it will. Think Genco or Playmatic, not Bally Gottlieb or Williams.
Pinball hasn't reached the 'antique' or 'collectors' phase... we are still in the 'hot rod' phase. So the more blinged, pimped, and envy inducing it can be... the higher the price.
Quoted from flynnibus:Pinball hasn't reached the 'antique' or 'collectors' phase... we are still in the 'hot rod' phase. So the more blinged, pimped, and envy inducing it can be... the higher the price.
Oh it's been in antique phase for as long as anything else, look at the crazy prices on the few "desirable" woodrails out there.
Problem is, as an art form, one of pinball's biggest draws is the gameplay, and boring woodrails and EMs just don't garner much interest from anyone. Think of all the Christmas and partridge family and oak ridge boys LP you find at the thrift stores... old crappy EMs and woodrails (and SS games) are just like those. Bad art, boring gameplay, too many made, no one wants.
Of course, as the supply dries up, even the bad examples slowly become desirable...
Going back on the beer Thursday night. Wait for some type of announcement from Deep Root. Stay positive! Never got a C & D from Robert, got lots of threats from others in the industry over the years. Mirco was the best: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mirco-exclusive-classic-stern-parts-manufacturer
Quoted from pookycade:In that vein I’ve never understood why pinball is virtually the only hobby where older does not mean more expensive. Early flipper games go for a pittance, and some of them due to their usual firewood end are rarer than rare. Even if giving up functionality and just looking at them as works of art they are way undervalued. I am afraid that even if RAZA makes it off the line it is unlikely to command major premiums that people hope it will. Think Genco or Playmatic, not Bally Gottlieb or Williams.
I think it’s largely a repair and maintenance thing.
Repo parts and specifically repo boards make it a lot easier to fix old broken games. The obscure SS and any EM game takes some actual know how vs throwing in an all new set of boards for a few hundred bucks.
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:I really have no clue what you’re going on about.
Seriously. Is this story time? No company in their right mind is going to take on the “lawsuit king of cease-and-desists” as a client. Wise up.
And what remaining “intentions” have not already been communicated by RM?
Quoted from iceman44:And you won’t change any minds here. Like a bunch of vultures flying over a dying animal.
Says the biggest vulture in here. Whatever it takes to get your game right?
Quoted from Scandell:Says the biggest vulture in here. Whatever it takes to get your game right?
It's Predaturd all over again.
"Why did someone snitch to Fox! I could have had that game!"... even though Kevin would have run out of money after the first 40 and left a hundred people after you high and dry*
*DISCLAIMER: I am IRL friends with Hilton.
Quoted from Scandell:Says the biggest vulture in here. Whatever it takes to get your game right?
Lol. That’s the BS narrative you derangement guys want to run with!
“Oh yeah man, whatever it takes to get my game. My life depends on it.”
I get it. Disgruntled ex employee and all.
My sympathies go out to all of you. I don’t f ing care about the game like you vultures do!!!
Pffft.
Quoted from benheck:It's Predaturd all over again.
"Why did someone snitch to Fox! I could have had that game!"... even though Kevin would have run out of money after the first 40 and left a hundred people after you high and dry*
*DISCLAIMER: I am IRL friends with Hilton.
Wrong again Ben! Predaturd had no money nor was he of even simple intellect
Time for another coffee run
Quoted from iceman44:Wrong again Ben! Predaturd had no money nor was he of even simple intellect
Time for another coffee run
Pretty sure he stole half a million dollars.
Care to try again or do you have Whiskey Fingers?
Quoted from benheck:Pretty sure he stole half a million dollars.
Care to try again or do you have Whiskey Fingers?
How does that compare to DR money wise. A bit of a stretch ain’t it. You exaggerated it yourself.
No employees, facility, IP, nothing but BS
Robert had the rest along with the BS. I’m damn sure that’s the case
Whiskey in the coffee maybe?
“Now listen to me Bobby, I want my game and i want it NOW you……If I don’t get it I’m going to come over to your office, break in, and walk out with a prototype or game of equal value”! I’ll take that TNA in the window.
“I can’t sleep at night, I post all hours of the day and night worrying whether or not I’m gonna get my precious game because when I do I will immediately sell it for $100k and I really really need it NOW”
. Aka. “The pin vulture”
Quoted from iceman44:How does that compare to DR money wise. A bit of a stretch ain’t it. You exaggerated it yourself.
No employees, facility, IP, nothing but BS
Robert had the rest along with the BS. I’m damn sure that’s the case
Whiskey in the coffee maybe?
“Now listen to me Bobby, I want my game and i want it NOW you……If I don’t get it I’m going to come over to your office, break in, and walk out with a prototype of game of equal value”!
“I can’t sleep at night, I post all hours of the day and night worrying whether or not I’m gonna get my precious game because when I do I will immediately sell it for $100k and I really really need it NOW”
. Aka. “The pin vulture”
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