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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#20651 2 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,647

Quoted from iceman44:

Buckle in boys! Somebody is gonna be producing those games

Quoted from iceman44:

I’m pretty sure David Fix at AP offered it up

""I'm pretty sure"" that's a load of crap. Typical Iceman.
How would Deeproot explain to investors of a competitor company building their machines? Is this the path forward to dominating the industry?

Don't forget that Deeproot hyped themselves as having proprietary, double secret, "Quad Manufacturing". Something so revolutionary they can't risk showing a picture of a parts bin to faithful customers. - Hoo boy

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#20652 2 years ago
 
JLG

JodyG

Ramp-O-Matic

6y 143K 4,612 6 21 1

Quoted from Mr68:

I'm pretty sure that's a load of crap. Typical Iceman.
How would Deeproot explain to investors of a competitor company building their machines? Is this the path forward to dominating the industry?
Don't forget that Deeproot hyped themselves as having proprietary, double secret, "Quad Manufacturing". Something so revolutionary they can't risk showing a picture of a parts bin to faithful customers. - Hoo boy

Nah, Robert said they are bored with quad manufacturing, and octo manufacturing will change the world.

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#20653 2 years ago
 
ACM

alex_m

Pinside member

5y 53,550 128

Quoted from okgrak:

I really hope Kaneda puts out a part 3!

The 5 Days of Deep Thoughts. Definitely seems like something he would do.

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#20654 2 years ago
 
DMB

PismoArcade

Pinside+ Frequent

US St. George, UT

12y 143K 4,102 3 134

Now that we've seen RAZA, it seems that when RM talks about innovation and how much superior Deep-rot is to the other pinball companies he's mostly talking about the Pinbar?

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#20655 2 years ago
 
TBM

Zablon

Pinside member

US Kellogg, IA

9y 103K 10,574 11

Quoted from JodyG:

Nah, Robert said they are bored with quad manufacturing, and octo manufacturing will change the world.

It's all coming together now...

fuctopus (resized).JPGfuctopus (resized).JPG
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#20656 2 years ago
 
DLA

ufotofu

Pinside member

6y 30,650 95

Robert's enunciation of the word "opportunity" is really grating. He pronounces that word like he's never heard another human speak before.

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#20657 2 years ago
 
YBX

yancy

Pinside member

US West Dundee, IL

11y 122K 7,208 25

Derp Thoughts part 2 is a little underwhelming. Aside from the hammer test brag, it's just a bunch of vague, long-winded yakety yak. You can already hear him walking back some of the boldest claims.

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#20658 2 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,451

It's too late, but in retrospect I wish the 5 days reflected the 5 stages of grief

Denial – Stern is a dinosaur that is set in their ways and doesn't know what they're doing. A new manufacturer is free of preconceptions
Anger – Pinside is a toxic sewer and I ignore all their comments
Bargaining – We will offer refunds to anyone who asks and pay them interest on their deposit
Depression – It's taking a lot longer to come out than anticipated
Acceptance – Pinball is not easy

And as a bonus, Homer's version

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#20659 2 years ago
 
GAC

Rarehero

Pinside member

US Los Angeles, CA

12y 134K 23,147 22 119

Quoted from ufotofu:

Robert's enunciation of the word "opportunity" is really grating. He pronounces that word like he's never heard another human speak before.

I think it’s a Utah accent. He says “playfilds” like those Utah podcasters….also “not a dint”.

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#20660 2 years ago
 
BBJ

blueberryjohnson

Pinside+ Frequent

US Honolulu, HI

8y 101K 4,726 1

Stick a wrench in him

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#20661 2 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,647

Quoted from yancy:

Derp Thoughts part 2 is a little underwhelming. Aside from the hammer test brag, it's just a bunch of vague, long-winded yakety yak. You can already hear him walking back some of the boldest claims.

I enjoyed how he said he doesn't read or pay attention to Pinside. You just know that he stimulates his bowels each morning with a cup of coffee and Pinside.

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#20662 2 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

Ice is the the Denial stage of not getting his rare shiny gaudy remake of Cyclone.

He knows nothing, Jon Snow.

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#20663 2 years ago
 
STK

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 134K 13,234

Quoted from yancy:

Derp Thoughts part 2 is a little underwhelming. Aside from the hammer test brag, it's just a bunch of vague, long-winded yakety yak. You can already hear him walking back some of the boldest claims.

Didn't people hear all this the first time around?

I'm still amazed people find this eyeopening... it's literally a 'greatest hits' compilation of the content we all have had for years.

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#20664 2 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

Per part 2:

"pay homage to Jeremey".... Instead of actually, you know, PAYING HIM.

Robert is so full of shit he makes an outhouse blush.

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#20665 2 years ago
 
ROB

RobT

Pinside member

13y 129K 21,266 3 40

Quoted from flynnibus:

Didn't people hear all this the first time around?
I'm still amazed people find this eyeopening... it's literally a 'greatest hits' compilation of the content we all have had for years.

Which is exactly why people like it.

Same as owning all of the albums of your favorite band on CD, and you go out and buy their Greatest Hits album. Nice to have all the best stuff condensed into one place.

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#20666 2 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

"I'm not gonna buy a pin for artwork"

Proceeds to hire Jpop.

What.
A.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!

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#20667 2 years ago
 
BBJ

blueberryjohnson

Pinside+ Frequent

US Honolulu, HI

8y 101K 4,726 1

Quoted from flynnibus:

Didn't people hear all this the first time around?
I'm still amazed people find this eyeopening... it's literally a 'greatest hits' compilation of the content we all have had for years.

"Fail" compilations get tens if not hundreds of millions of views on YouTube. These are audio fail compilations (but actually entertaining, in my opinion)

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#20668 2 years ago
 
YBX

yancy

Pinside member

US West Dundee, IL

11y 122K 7,208 25

I never had the patience to hear all this spiel the first time around, only saw it quoted here. Interesting to hear it from the horse's ass, I mean mouth. Count me in for a limited LP on translucent shit-brown vinyl.

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#20669 2 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,647

Quoted from flynnibus:

Didn't people hear all this the first time around?
I'm still amazed people find this eyeopening... it's literally a 'greatest hits' compilation of the content we all have had for years.

Come on Flynn, take a step back. Its no secret that I don't like Iceman nor do I trust most of what he says on Pinside. But he can and does post some really good thoughts from time to time and he earns a legitimate up-vote from me.
At least try to let some things slide if nothing else.

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#20670 2 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,451

Quoted from yancy:

I never had the patience to hear all this spiel the first time around, only saw it quoted here. Interesting to hear it from the horse's ass, I mean mouth. Count me in for a limited LP on translucent shit-brown vinyl.

You know it would be neon purple with green sparkles bundled with a complimentary coffee coaster that actually tips the cup over if it's too full.

edit: just for fun

greatesthits (resized).pnggreatesthits (resized).png

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#20671 2 years ago
 
JON

bigehrl

Jackbar

US New York, NY

12y 97,150 3,829 79

Haven't been paying attention. what's a Deeproot? can someone please catch me up??

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#20672 2 years ago
 
BBJ

blueberryjohnson

Pinside+ Frequent

US Honolulu, HI

8y 101K 4,726 1

Quoted from bigehrl:

Haven't been paying attention. what's a Deeproot? can someone please catch me up??

Screenshot_20210728-054113 (resized).pngScreenshot_20210728-054113 (resized).png

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#20673 2 years ago
 
DWF

Chalkey

Pinside+ Frequent

US Chesterfield, VA

6y 69,550 2,972 18

Interested to see if ice's faith is well placed or if he (or his intel source) is just going full buy in on the pie in the sky claims. Do you think that's a possibility ice or are you still full-send, they are really going to do this shit and everyone will be shocked?

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#20674 2 years ago
 
SS

Shapeshifter

Pinside member

13y 150K 10,467 8 144

'Deeproot will be different'.

Ya got that right!!!!!

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#20675 2 years ago
 
MDB

Mbecker

Pinside+ Frequent

US Seattle, WA

10y 104K 4,313 5 14

haha never saw that, right there on the frigg'n mission statement /about deeproot -- "manufacturing facilities". Huh?!? lol

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#20676 2 years ago
 
DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

US Boerne, TX

13y 162K 26,892 28 49

Quoted from benheck:

Ice is the the Denial stage of not getting his rare shiny gaudy remake of Cyclone.
He knows nothing, Jon Snow.

You def have "Deeproot/Jpop derangement syndrome" Ben. Sorry but the tormenting and gnawing feeling you will continue to get with Deeproot continuing to survive is going to only get worse!

Carry on, the entertainment value is why i'm here.

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#20677 2 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

Quoted from iceman44:

You def have "Deeproot/Jpop derangement syndrome" Ben. Sorry but the tormenting feeling you will continue to get with Deeproot continuing to survive is going to only get worse!

Ice you have me at a disadvantage. I won't disclose HOW I REALLY, REALLY feel until the guy "who never sues anybody" (according to you, who knows nothing) is gone.

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#20678 2 years ago
 
LOW

Mogg

Pinside member

7y 43,050 218

If I’m reading the room right we have denial (part 1), anger (part 2), bargaining (update delays of late), depression (underway). Then We still have one more exciting installation.

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#20679 2 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

Quoted from Mogg:

If I’m reading the room right we have denial (part 1), anger (part 2), bargaining (update delays of late), depression (underway). Then We still have one more exciting installation.

Where does "creating fantasies in ones's head to self-assure themself they are going to get a Rare Shiny" fit on the list?

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#20680 2 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,451

Quoted from benheck:

Where does "creating fantasies in ones's head to self-assure themself they are going to get a Rare Shiny" fit on the list?

I think the Zidware goodwill agreement (bargaining) reset a lot of people back to the denial stage

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#20681 2 years ago
 
NAD

Bublehead

Pinside member

US San Tan Valley, AZ

8y 92,300 4,469 10

iceman44 - "I like my pins like I like my steaks... rare as hell."

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#20682 2 years ago
 
DEW

Damonator

Pinside+ Addict

10y 121K 3,150 35 8

Quoted from benheck:

"I'm not gonna buy a pin for artwork"
Proceeds to hire Jpop.
What.
A.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!

Speaking of art and JPOP - I am happy that we got Zombie Yeti out of Zitware and working for Stern. Up until that point, Stern PF artwork was pretty mediocre (TWD, GoT, etc)

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#20683 2 years ago
 
AGP

apessino

Pinside+ Pro!

US Yorba Linda, CA

3y 63,300 342 18 20

Quoted from NeilMcRae:

https://soundcloud.com/kanedapinball/deep-thoughts-by-deeproot-part-2
the pinside comment is classic - I'm not going to listen to my potential customers. What an idiot.

"Today we went over the first 21 games we got planned over the next few years..."

delusions (resized).jpgdelusions (resized).jpg
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#20684 2 years ago
 
MOO

snakesnsparklers

Pinside member

9y 92,800 4,828

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

[quoted image]

200.gif200.gif
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#20685 2 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

Quoted from Damonator:

Speaking of art and JPOP - I am happy that we got Zombie Yeti out of Zitware and working for Stern. Up until that point, Stern PF artwork was pretty mediocre (TWD, GoT, etc)

Said it many times before but bears repeating:

Stern "saved" Zidware the smart way - by hiring the only talent there (Jeremy). Zidware - An art diorama posing as a company.

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#20686 2 years ago
 
EDG

Richthofen

Pinside member

11y 75,800 2,696

Quoted from benheck:

Stern "saved" Zidware the smart way - by hiring the only talent there (Jeremy). Zidware - An art diorama posing as a company.

And how lucky are we now, Jeremy has put out some seriously gorgeous artwork on TMNT, Deadpool, GB, etc.

People like to call Stern a dinosaur and out of touch but they are probably the most responsive manufacturer. The biggest complaint on these forums about Stern (besides not having the W/B "magic") was their "photoshop" art. But in the last 10 years Stern has significantly updated their visuals on their games. They went from doing only approved licensed art pastiches to working with ZombieYeti, Johnny Crap and Randy Martinez and others who are doing amazing illustrative work.

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#20687 2 years ago
 
RPR

Yoreland

Pinside member

US Yucca Valley, CA

7y 50,050 180 6

Quoted from benheck:

Ice is the the Denial stage of not getting his rare shiny gaudy remake of Cyclone.
He knows nothing, Jon Snow.

Ben stay in your lane, being a a hilarious genius. Gaudy, yes. Which is why it's so beautiful to me. Love that Gaudy glory. That purple puke nightmare, as it were. It's beautiful.

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#20688 2 years ago
 
TMB

Roostking

Pinside+ Addict

11y 106K 8,566 2

Quoted from Richthofen:

And how lucky are we now, Jeremy has put out some seriously gorgeous artwork on TMNT, Deadpool, GB, etc.
People like to call Stern a dinosaur and out of touch but they are probably the most responsive manufacturer. The biggest complaint on these forums about Stern (besides not having the W/B "magic") was their "photoshop" art. But in the last 10 years Stern has significantly updated their visuals on their games. They went from doing only approved licensed art pastiches to working with ZombieYeti, Johnny Crap and Randy Martinez and others who are doing amazing illustrative work.

Lets not forget Dirty Donnie on Metallica. Kinda started the recent trend.

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#20689 2 years ago
 
MJW

DakotaMike

Mike's Pinball Repair

US Clermont, FL

4y 95,550 2,111 1 26

Quoted from Roostking:

Lets not forget Dirty Donnie on Metallica. Kinda started the recent trend.

Was gonna say just this, but you beat me to it!

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#20690 2 years ago
 
DEW

Damonator

Pinside+ Addict

10y 121K 3,150 35 8

Quoted from Richthofen:

And how lucky are we now, Jeremy has put out some seriously gorgeous artwork on TMNT, Deadpool, GB, etc.
People like to call Stern a dinosaur and out of touch but they are probably the most responsive manufacturer. The biggest complaint on these forums about Stern (besides not having the W/B "magic") was their "photoshop" art. But in the last 10 years Stern has significantly updated their visuals on their games. They went from doing only approved licensed art pastiches to working with ZombieYeti, Johnny Crap and Randy Martinez and others who are doing amazing illustrative work.

Oh, it was more than just photoshop art. Stern was really phoning it in on a *LOT* of titles before JJP showed up and forced them to compete. But I applaud them for raising the bar - they’ve put some really great games out in the past 5 years.

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#20691 2 years ago
 
NJM

NeilMcRae

Pinside+ Pro!

GB London

12y 147K 4,494 70 20

Quoted from flynnibus:

Didn't people hear all this the first time around?
I'm still amazed people find this eyeopening... it's literally a 'greatest hits' compilation of the content we all have had for years.

yeah but its all in the timing! with a little bit of remastering! like all good bands!

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#20692 2 years ago
 
POO

seenev

Pinside member

8y 62,050 2,181 17

If, by some miracle, deeproot starts making and shipping games, will Ben Heck be OK? I imagine it would be devastating to have devoted so much effort to trashing the company only to see them survive.

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#20693 2 years ago
 
EDG

Richthofen

Pinside member

11y 75,800 2,696

Quoted from Damonator:

Oh, it was more than just photoshop art. Stern was really phoning it in on a *LOT* of titles before JJP showed up and forced them to compete. But I applaud them for raising the bar - they’ve put some really great games out in the past 5 years.

I don't think they were "phoning it in". There was a confluence of factors. LOTR was an amazing game but Stern's printing process or art preparation or whatever it was, was awful. Maybe they switched to a digital printing process prematurely? Who knows. I do know that they had to go into survival mode right around the time of Avatar, which was probably the bottom of the housing market, and at the same time, the bottom of the operator market. But they made the right choices and kept the lights on. And I think people really discard the amazing 2000s titles when they think of Stern. Family Guy? Amazing. TRON? LOTR, Spiderman... What titles were they phoning it in on? Indiana Jones and NBA, maybe?

I think the narrative that JJP somehow spurned Stern into making better games is a false one. JJP came along in 2011/2012, but if it takes a year to develop a game, AC/DC and TRON were already under development at the time JJP was started. Really, what changed the entire industry was that the collector market grew in size substantially. If you were born in 1980, you would have played Addams Family pinball as a 11 year old and been part of arcade culture. You would come into your peak earnings years at 30-40, aka 2010-2020. You'd probably own a home at have room for a game or two.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
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#20694 2 years ago
 
STK

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 134K 13,234

Quoted from RobT:

Which is exactly why people like it.
Same as owning all of the albums of your favorite band on CD, and you go out and buy their Greatest Hits album. Nice to have all the best stuff condensed into one place.

You glossed over the important part... "I'm still amazed people find this eyeopening."

It's not about grouping favorites, apparently many people didn't hear the stuff even after it's been analyzed and referenced to death for years. Which just says to me, so many people here never bothered to actually listen in the first place.

It's like buying a greatest hits album and just realizing the band had those songs.

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#20695 2 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,451

Some of Sterns best years were those couple years after they gobbled up the best parts of Bally Williams, and before the bottom fell out

TSPP, LOTR, RBION, Spiderman are all awesome. Sopranos, POTC, and Elvis are pretty solid too. So many mechs in those games that we don't see anymore...

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#20696 2 years ago
 
TMB

Roostking

Pinside+ Addict

11y 106K 8,566 2

Quoted from seenev:

If, by some miracle, deeproot starts making and shipping games, will Ben Heck be OK? I imagine it would be devastating to have devoted so much effort to trashing the company only to see them survive.

Um yea, I'm sure Ben, with some new boards being used, a pin coming soon at some point, and whatever else he has going on, will be just fine.

Rather, you should wonder how devastated RM is after being lapped over and over, by companies he was going to bury.

And you were saying?

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#20697 2 years ago
 
STK

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 134K 13,234

Quoted from Richthofen:And how lucky are we now, Jeremy has put out some seriously gorgeous artwork on TMNT, Deadpool, GB, etc.
People like to call Stern a dinosaur and out of touch but they are probably the most responsive manufacturer. The biggest complaint on these forums about Stern (besides not having the W/B "magic") was their "photoshop" art.

Meh... you're missing the root issue there. Art choices were the consequences of the real issues. Stern's cheapness and conservative approach. That's what everyone was bothered by.. and some enough to actually start another company to prove 'em wrong. People didn't hate games like NBA or 24 because the art was the deal breaker. The investment of what they put into art spanned over games great and bad. But most were still bothered by what Stern was willing to put into the game - and how they were so slow to change course after they bottomed out.

Stern was so late to embracing the new tech, the new displays, new talent, new price points. Yes, Stern has done those things NOW, but we're talking years after others blazed the trail and Stern reacted. Stern is real good at playing it safe and flexing their relations and mature manufacturing. The biggest complaint against Sterns was cutting corners and lack of ambition to be bold. Once others proved the viability and interest in something - Stern went and stood up and got in line.

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0
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#20698 2 years ago
 
TMB

Roostking

Pinside+ Addict

11y 106K 8,566 2

Quoted from flynnibus:

Meh... you're missing the root issue there. Art choices were the consequences of the real issues. Stern's cheapness and conservative approach. That's what everyone was bothered by.. and some enough to actually start another company to prove 'em wrong. People didn't hate games like NBA or 24 because the art was the deal breaker. The investment of what they put into art spanned over games great and bad. But most were still bothered by what Stern was willing to put into the game - and how they were so slow to change course after they bottomed out.
Stern was so late to embracing the new tech, the new displays, new talent, new price points. Yes, Stern has done those things NOW, but we're talking years after others blazed the trail and Stern reacted. Stern is real good at playing it safe and flexing their relations and mature manufacturing. The biggest complaint against Sterns was cutting corners and lack of ambition to be bold. Once others proved the viability and interest in something - Stern went and stood up and got in line.

Will you at least admit it was a quick pivot!

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#20699 2 years ago
 
DEW

Damonator

Pinside+ Addict

10y 121K 3,150 35 8

Quoted from Richthofen:

I don't think they were "phoning it in". There was a confluence of factors. LOTR was an amazing game but Stern's printing process or art preparation or whatever it was, was awful. Maybe they switched to a digital printing process prematurely? Who knows. I do know that they had to go into survival mode right around the time of Avatar, which was probably the bottom of the housing market, and at the same time, the bottom of the operator market. But they made the right choices and kept the lights on. And I think people really discard the amazing 2000s titles when they think of Stern. Family Guy? Amazing. TRON? LOTR, Spiderman... What titles were they phoning it in on? Indiana Jones and NBA, maybe?
I think the narrative that JJP somehow spurned Stern into making better games is a false one. JJP came along in 2011/2012, but if it takes a year to develop a game, AC/DC and TRON were already under development at the time JJP was started. Really, what changed the entire industry was that the collector market grew in size substantially. If you were born in 1980, you would have played Addams Family pinball as a 11 year old and been part of arcade culture. You would come into your peak earnings years at 30-40, aka 2010-2020. You'd probably own a home at have room for a game or two. [quoted image]

I said “a Lot”, not “All”. Yes, there were a few exceptions that were good - but your list just verifies what I said - most of those games suck. Hard.

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#20700 2 years ago
 
STK

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 134K 13,234

Quoted from Richthofen:

I don't think they were "phoning it in". There was a confluence of factors. LOTR was an amazing game but Stern's printing process or art preparation or whatever it was, was awful. Maybe they switched to a digital printing process prematurely? Who knows. I do know that they had to go into survival mode right around the time of Avatar, which was probably the bottom of the housing market, and at the same time, the bottom of the operator market. But they made the right choices and kept the lights on. And I think people really discard the amazing 2000s titles when they think of Stern. Family Guy? Amazing. TRON? LOTR, Spiderman... What titles were they phoning it in on? Indiana Jones and NBA, maybe?

I think the narrative that JJP somehow spurned Stern into making better games is a false one. JJP came along in 2011/2012, but if it takes a year to develop a game, AC/DC and TRON were already under development at the time JJP was started

TRON was not well received and is no example of Stern going big. It was a classic borg style of doing the most with the least. Games like Avatar were making more money at the time. Jack made his statement almost right from the get-go about the kind of games he was going to make and why... and when they opened WoZ pre-orders in 2011 that set the tone in the market that the 'luxury' title was a real thing and verification of HUO being the lead market, not operators.

Transformers was really the first game where Stern tried to amp up their efforts. 2008-2011 which really was the lowest period for Stern and is when Jack made his move. Stern had basically gone 'survival mode'. Only after JJP established that prices would be going UP, not games being stripped out to maintain the 4k operator price point (which is what Stern had been doing) was there enough money back into the games that stern started to expand and change their product strategy.

Stern's strategy at the time was NBA... find new operator markets, try to keep games affordable for operators. JJP reset the industry and Stern in turn followed.

The 'expanding market' really started around the time of X-Men in 2007. But the macro-situation still beat Stern to death because of who they primarily sold to.

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