Quoted from Mogg:Did Dennis Nordman really say that?
I’m paraphrasing, ‘how amazing it is at Deeproot compared to the Bally Williams days’
Just a guess, but no.
(Topic ID: 203700)
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Quoted from Mogg:Did Dennis Nordman really say that?
I’m paraphrasing, ‘how amazing it is at Deeproot compared to the Bally Williams days’
Pretty sure he said "Williams Bally."
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Thanks for the heads up. Great stuff!
https://soundcloud.com/kanedapinball/deep-thoughts-by-deeproot-part-1
Exciting it's only part 1
Just finished listening.
What a freaking blowhard!!
Kaneda deserves credit for putting this together. Classic.
London
Here’s your 4:30 drive by report. 
No cars in the lot. It’s late I know. Bankers hours.
I did get a peak inside at different doors. Nothing has really changed since last production reveal that I can see.
Break room/cafeteria had a bunch of pins set up. TNA right by the door.
Prototypes and part bins in the back set
up area. Had a Hobbit sitting there too.
Nobody to greet me at the “visitors entrance”.
One section completely blacked out.
Massive waste of space now. With production?
There you go
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:A concept reference for my proposed DIY Robert audio update:
Portrait of an ass grabber. Classy!
Quoted from iceman44:Here’s your 4:30 drive by report.
//<![CDATA[
window.__mirage2 = {petok:"95f830f1a47c85168b14a1f87f65c67535138b82-1627426091-1800"};
//]]>No cars in the lot. It’s late I know. Bankers hours.
I did get a peak inside at different doors. Nothing has really changed since last production reveal that I can see.
Break room/cafeteria had a bunch of pins set up. TNA right by the door.
Prototypes and part bins in the back set
up area. Had a Hobbit sitting there too.
Nobody to greet me at the “visitors entrance”.
One section completely blacked out.
Massive waste of space now. With production?
There you go
Did you actually make it inside?
Halifax, NS
Do not know why no one believes Deep Root will not contract out the manufacturing, & parts out sourcing. It is the only logical thing to do, unless you are stupid enough to walk away after this time.
They have shown they have a brain team for pinball, & not a production team to get pinball machines produced in numbers in their own facilities. Many will work with them for parts, & money. Just wait & see if anything rolls out to customers.
Robert was the worst spokesperson to have start what was believed to be a major player in the industry. Also lacked direct management to get things done in this industry. Should of had a production team along with the design team.
I know of others looking to make new pinball machines. Guess what they look at all the start ups to see how few have won & many have lost. Everyone knows who these companies are. Also if you are old enough remember the huge failures of major players in the industry.
It was interesting to see a photo of Spooky production line with base cabinets. Just part of what must be there for production. Quad or Octo manufacturing by Deep Root must of been some wacky concept not seen by logical people in the industry making real games.
So ice doesn't need a tour because he already knows what's going on inside, while at the same time he drives to the Dr office to fog up the windows trying to rorschach the shadows. Makes total sense.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Do not know why no one believes Deep Root will not contract out the manufacturing, & parts out sourcing. I
I hope you're kidding. If not, where have you been for the last 8 years? Did you listen to the dumpster full of garbage RM dumped on podcasts years ago?
Same show, different channel.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:It is the only logical thing to do, unless you are stupid enough to walk away after this time.
Logic? 
Quoted from iceman44:Here’s your 4:30 drive by report.
//<![CDATA[
window.__mirage2 = {petok:"939972046192e5e354ecc4d080da8168203df39c-1627430063-1800"};
//]]>No cars in the lot. It’s late I know. Bankers hours.
I did get a peak inside at different doors. Nothing has really changed since last production reveal that I can see.
Break room/cafeteria had a bunch of pins set up. TNA right by the door.
Prototypes and part bins in the back set
up area. Had a Hobbit sitting there too.
Nobody to greet me at the “visitors entrance”.
One section completely blacked out.
Massive waste of space now. With production?
There you go
That is cool. Maybe there is something going on there. It may be a big waste of money with no expectation of profit any time soon but if they have money to burn then I guess they can spend it however they choose to.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:It is the only logical thing to do, unless you are stupid enough to walk away after this time.
If it’s the only logical thing to do, count on RM *NOT* to do it. He’s been illogical from the get-go and extremely arrogant. He reminds me a lot of Andrew Heighway, except AH actually made 1.5 pinballs before he crashed and burned.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:So ice doesn't need a tour because he already knows what's going on inside, while at the same time he drives to the Dr office to fog up the windows trying to rorschach the shadows. Makes total sense.
You haven’t been around long enough I see to know when I’m yanking your chain.
It appears they are in a total holding pattern for now. Rent and main employees are getting paid while not much is getting done.
They also aren’t packing up the joint either.
Front 1/3 is mostly office
Middle 1/3 is that cafeteria game room/hidden area
Back 1/3 is the prototype production area
Maybe 3 or 4 row of high shelves with loads of dusty parts etc
If they are going contract manufacturing they aren’t making a move it looks like to send off the parts they have.
Again, looks like they ain’t going anywhere for quite a while! Maybe tiddly winks is the game of choice?
Quoted from iceman44:You haven’t been around long enough I see to know when I’m yanking your chain.
It appears they are in a total holding pattern for now. Rent and main employees are getting paid while not much is getting done.
They also aren’t packing up the joint either.
Front 1/3 is mostly office
Middle 1/3 is that cafeteria game room/hidden area
Back 1/3 is the prototype production area
Maybe 3 or 4 row of high shelves with loads of dusty parts etc
If they are going contract manufacturing they aren’t making a move it looks like to send off the parts they have.
Again, looks like they ain’t going anywhere for quite a while! Maybe tiddly winks is the game of choice?
Don't yank my chain. Pacer my case filings!
Ice is a good local source for info. Just because Deep Root looks totally ignorant & stupid over the years. Maybe someone has clued into major rethought is needed to actually move forward. People may think I am beating a dead horse, maybe there is new horse in the race that is still breathing. Still off the beer!
Kaneda is the super entertaining and holds companies accountable. Love his show. I’ve only been listening for the last 150 shows…seems like he made some mistakes early on in this community…but he’s hit his stride now.
DeepRoot.
This is over. I’d wager You won’t be hearing from RM again. When narcissistic man-child’s are finally forced to confront the truth of their failures, they’d rather game-over than hit continue. If you catch my drift.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Do not know why no one believes Deep Root will not contract out the manufacturing, & parts out sourcing. It is the only logical thing to do, unless you are stupid enough to walk away after this time.
They have shown they have a brain team for pinball, & not a production team to get pinball machines produced in numbers in their own facilities. Many will work with them for parts, & money. Just wait & see if anything rolls out to customers.
Robert was the worst spokesperson to have start what was believed to be a major player in the industry. Also lacked direct management to get things done in this industry. Should of had a production team along with the design team.
I know of others looking to make new pinball machines. Guess what they look at all the start ups to see how few have won & many have lost. Everyone knows who these companies are. Also if you are old enough remember the huge failures of major players in the industry.
It was interesting to see a photo of Spooky production line with base cabinets. Just part of what must be there for production. Quad or Octo manufacturing by Deep Root must of been some wacky concept not seen by logical people in the industry making real games.
We get it, you keep bringing up, and most of these same points have been brought up for years. Nobody is going to go through all the trouble for 130 games, with a company that doesnt pay its employees and possibly owes vendors $$$
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Ice is a good local source for info. Just because Deep Root looks totally ignorant & stupid over the years. Maybe someone has clued into major rethought is needed to actually move forward. People may think I am beating a dead horse, maybe there is new horse in the race that is still breathing. Still off the beer!
Kudos on sobriety
I feel like you keep hinting the Gottlieb family wants back in the game. That’d be great! (Maybe? Idk)
But they’re doomed if they get in bed with deeproot
Maybe they can buy The Goonies or The Who game, if they even exists and if they can even transfer the license. That’s all they have of some value…and even that can’t be worth more than a million bucks tops (assuming they’re close to done to being designed). Especially if they’re not getting all the project files and some of the staffers to make heads or tails of what they were doing or how to make it into production. Just better to start from a blank slate in most cases…
Quoted from Scandell:Kaneda is the super entertaining and holds companies accountable. Love his show. I’ve only been listening for the last 150 shows…seems like he made some mistakes early on in this community…but he’s hit his stride now.
DeepRoot.
This is over. I’d wager You won’t be hearing from RM again. When narcissistic man-child’s are finally forced to confront the truth of their failures, they’d rather game-over than hit continue. If you catch my drift.
Game over is failure. Gotta disagree here. He’s been hitting “continue” for years since the “5 days of deeproot” when it could have/should have been shut down
I don’t think he’s going anywhere. Pinball is still an underlying business (liability) of the 575 fund which is THE priority and that will be around for many years to come
Buckle in boys! Somebody is gonna be producing those games
I have zero qualms with this dragging out for years more. I’m shaking off rust on my Wacom tablet and finally getting used to GIMP over Photoshop.
Quoted from Scandell:Kaneda is the super entertaining and holds companies accountable. Love his show. I’ve only been listening for the last 150 shows…seems like he made some mistakes early on in this community…but he’s hit his stride now.
DeepRoot.
This is over. I’d wager You won’t be hearing from RM again. When narcissistic man-child’s are finally forced to confront the truth of their failures, they’d rather game-over than hit continue. If you catch my drift.
Should we be expecting to hear a Kaneda fireside chat with our pal Scandell sometime down the road?
Quoted from pinballrockstar:https://m.soundcloud.com/kanedapinball/deep-thoughts-by-deeproot-part-1
Oh…
Oh wow..
I didn’t know it was this bad.
I thought you guys were being negative nancy over here 24/7.
But to tell you the truth i am shocked.
I know it’s a montage but still.
Never heard RM speak before up until now since i rarely come here.
I check in for news sometimes since i am actually in on a deeproot machine.
But this is really bad.
Is that guy actually okay?
Cuz this sounds very fucking strange to me.
He better starts paying me money btw?
This pin is overdue
I have to listen again man…wow.
And what is that 5 days of deeproot stuff about??
[quoted image]
Welcome to the middle truth.
Quoted from iceman44:Game over is failure. Gotta disagree here. He’s been hitting “continue” for years since the “5 days of deeproot” when it could have/should have been shut down
I don’t think he’s going anywhere. Pinball is still an underlying business (liability) of the 575 fund which is THE priority and that will be around for many years to come
Buckle in boys! Somebody is gonna be producing those games
Yeah I'm sure companies are lining up to build games for Robert and then get sued.
Maybe when it's over, and the real stories are shared, then Ice will understand.
Quoted from benheck:Maybe when it's over, and the real stories are shared, then Ice will understand.
We’ll all be playing Fire and Brimstone before that ever happens.
remember in the predator thread how people said "dont bother with the lawsuit. cant squeeze blood from a turnip (aka kevin). you're just throwing good money with the bad. only person getting any money is the lawyer (who conveniently disappeared when the cases closed).
it feels like robert is doing the same thing, throwing good investment money at a bad business plan for the sake of pushing off failure as long as possible. at SOME point the money runs out, i dont care who you are.
Quoted from toyotaboy:remember in the predator thread how people said "dont bother with the lawsuit. cant squeeze blood from a turnip (aka kevin). you're just throwing good money with the bad. only person getting any money is the lawyer (who conveniently disappeared when the cases closed).
it feels like robert is doing the same thing, throwing good investment money at a bad business plan for the sake of pushing off failure as long as possible. at SOME point the money runs out, i dont care who you are.
See also Duke Nukem Forever "We don't have to finish it anytime soon! We're self published and have all the money we need!".... Until they went belly up and sold the rights to Gearbox.
Is John Popadiuk the John Romero of pinball?
Overinflated opinion of himself and his skills, the engineers (well just Carmack) made his designs work, crashed in a blaze of glory when given lots of bucks to make a studio “where design is king” after repeated delays and bungled marketing campaigns that turned more people off than anything else
Well I guess in Romero’s favor Daikatana came out… now he mostly makes WAD packs for OG Doom to relive his glory days. Better hair too
What I played of Daikatana at the time was fun. Iirc the art direction was really good
Edit: I don't care if this is a derail, aint shit happening with dr, might as well discuss Daikatana
Edit 2: nevermind, watched some videos. Oof
Quoted from alexmogil:remember when people were creeping around the parking lot and taking pictures of the studio of game developer hello games when they were making no mans sky
remember how creepy that was
remember
Not as creepy as all the death threats they got when the released game was meh
They did a lot of work to turn it around though. Decent game now
Quoted from TreyBo69:Not as creepy as all the death threats they got when the released game was meh
They did a lot of work to turn it around though. Decent game now
In all seriousness yeah, they turned it around. It's fun. I have no idea how they make money.
Quoted from alexmogil:In all seriousness yeah, they turned it around. It's fun. I have no idea how they make money.
They have a staff of like 16 and sold millions of copies at full retail
Ion Storm at least shipped something.
Sony were the ones pumping up No Man's Sky. Then all the rage was unleashed on Hello Games when, shockingly, a 16 man studio wasn't able to create an entire universe. Was a single A game that was pushed as AAA.
Like Dutch Pinball Hello Games hunkered down and made things right. Probably because they finally had the money (after launch) to do so!
Quoted from benheck:Ion Storm at least shipped something.
Sony were the ones pumping up No Man's Sky. Then all the rage was unleashed on Hello Games when, shockingly, a 16 man studio wasn't able to create an entire universe.
Little bit of both. The lead dev certainly didn’t do much to tamper down expectations and outright lied about some stuff he knew wouldn’t be in the game.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Little bit of both. The lead dev certainly didn’t do much to tamper down expectations and outright lied about some stuff he knew wouldn’t be in the game.
Also true. Worked out in the end. And they probably spent less on it than deep Poop's Noodle Co!
Quoted from benheck:Also true. Worked out in the end. And they probably spent less on it than deep Poop's Noodle Co!
If only pinball was as simple as patch it later.
Although I guess that’s Sterns philosophy at times when they need something on the line ASAP
Quoted from benheck:Yeah I'm sure companies are lining up to build games for Robert and then get sued.
Maybe when it's over, and the real stories are shared, then Ice will understand.
I’m pretty sure David Fix at AP offered it up
Here’s the thing, they haven’t actually sued anybody now have they, just gotten sued, despite the many threats you don’t just go around filing frivolous lawsuits with no basis so why would ANYONE be worried about that nonsense? They shouldn’t be
I don’t need stories to understand what’s going on 
Quoted from TreyBo69:If only pinball was as simple as patch it later.
Although I guess that’s Sterns philosophy at times when they need something on the line ASAP
Sterns approach makes 100% logical sense. When a pin is introduced, we see almost no code at all, just preview videos. And yet people make most of their purchasing decision on that. Hardware has such a long lead time that you have to finalize and build well before software is done. Until we (pinball buyers) hold people accountable for finished code in a shipping game we really can’t expect different behavior. It was in fact a bit bassakwards that DR put so much into asset development first with not much in the way of finished hardware to lead the charge. I say bassakwards, but it makes some sense in that 1) the team was more a concept than a finished product team 2) the speculation that DR never intended to build anything but instead license the framework and assets to someone else to execute on. Unfortunately that didn’t quite work out the way they had hoped.
Quoted from iceman44:I’m pretty sure David Fix at AP offered it up
Here’s the thing, they haven’t actually sued anybody now have they, just gotten sued, despite the many threats you don’t just go around filing frivolous lawsuits with no basis so why would ANYONE be worried about that nonsense? They shouldn’t be
I don’t need stories to understand what’s going on
Ice, If you trust anything that comes out of dave fix's mouth, you're credibility is zilch.
deeproot part 2 deepthoughts
Yeah - they are going to come in "crush the competition "
Nope - guess that didn't happen. Can't even get 1 game out the door. What a bunch of crap and grandiose garbage that's spewed.
It's laughable coming out his mouth, so much more than just reading it in print.
Just call the Coroner and write the Obituary for the Company. They are all but dead.
Quoted from iceman44:Buckle in boys! Somebody is gonna be producing those games
Why would any other company touch these games, when they could be manufacturing games that actually sell and play well.
Most companies actually like making money, not just burning it and yelling at the wall how cool they are.
Quoted from NoQuarters:deeproot part 2 deepthoughts
Yeah - they are going to come in "crush the competition "
Nope - guess that didn't happen. Can't even get 1 game out the door. What a bunch of crap and grandiose garbage that's spewed.
It's laughable coming out his mouth, so much more than just reading it in print.
Just call the Coroner and write the Obituary for the Company. They are all but dead.
Maybe….we’ve seen two last minute deathsaves in our recent pinball past - both JJP and Heighway received eleventh hour angel money that saved their companies from certain doom.
However in both those cases, the companies had proven they could make at least one game and had an existing customer base. DR has not made any games and are not well liked (by anyone), so I’d put the chances of that happening at 1:1000.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Why would any other company touch these games, when they could be manufacturing games that actually sell and play well.
Most companies actually like making money, not just burning it and yelling at the wall how cool they are.
Agree
No legit pinball manufacturer would contract or whore with Deeproot for a measly 100 games. You don't want that stink on your company. Everybody is busy with their own stuff. Why would Root pay somebody to do it even if they could find somebody - maybe in China ? Nah...
It's just plain not happening. It's over. Done. Finished.
Quoted from iceman44:Game over is failure. Gotta disagree here. He’s been hitting “continue” for years since the “5 days of deeproot” when it could have/should have been shut down
I don’t think he’s going anywhere. Pinball is still an underlying business (liability) of the 575 fund which is THE priority and that will be around for many years to come
Buckle in boys! Somebody is gonna be producing those games
Hey Ice, question for you as I don't remember but I was thinking the 575 fund was structured as 5% initial bonus, 7% annual return and return of principal in 5 years? If so, some of that initial principle would have hit the five year mark. Now maybe there is an opportunity to re-up, but I believe, this is not as straight-forward as one might expect with this type of fund. Anyhow, I think this (the return of principle) is the ticking time bomb.
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