(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

1 year ago



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There are 3415 posts in this topic. You are on page 41 of 69.
#2001 5 months ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Is that what you're working on with the avocado grove now?

If squirrels could eat money, there wouldn't be much of that left either.

#2002 5 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

It must have come out of thin air then.
I've also heard with the right fertilizer, it will also grow on trees.

Do I really need to explain the difference between a client and an investor ?

That fertilizer must be a bit too strong...

#2003 5 months ago
Quoted from adol75:

Do I really need to explain the difference between a client and an investor ?

I looked up client-

"a person or organization using the services of a lawyer or other professional person or company."

#2004 5 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

I looked up client-
"a person or organization using the services of a lawyer or other professional person or company."

Now I wonder why they separate the lawyer from the rest of the crowd !

#2005 5 months ago

Delay is a bummer but I’m still excited to see what Deeproot has to offer in the future.

#2006 5 months ago
Quoted from johnnyutah:

I’m still excited to see what Deeproot has to offer in the future.

Why wait?

They have several other investment opportunities beside pinball already available.

#2007 5 months ago

I am super bummed out that Deeproot will not reveal any of their games. The main reason I finally bought a ticket to Dallas. Still looking forward to the show and meeting all pinheads from all over the world!

One of the things that is good about this whole fiasco is Deeproot does not want to reveal anything until they can promise to deliver so that there is no delay to receive the games for people who purchase them. I am all for it that they want things to be perfected before people receive their games. We all have to wait and see what they produce, but I am not giving up on them. I am ready to see a magical world under glass, and I hope they make that happen. Come on Deeproot. Don’t disappoint us.

#2008 5 months ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

deeproot Pinball
Announced/Confirmed
Fire and Brimstone | Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland | Magic Girl | Alice in Wonderland | Dennis Nordman Unlicensed | Dennis Nordman Unlicensed 2

Reminiscent of Nordman telling Andrew Heighway to pound sand re his BS claims.

The "leadership team", probably Nordman, put things on a more realistic timeline.

Who else in that group has more experience making pinball machines?

#2009 5 months ago

On this episode of American Greed...Deeproot !!

#2010 5 months ago
Quoted from pinballonthemark:

I am super bummed out that Deeproot will not reveal any of their games. The main reason I finally bought a ticket to Dallas. Still looking forward to the show and meeting all pinheads from all over the world!
One of the things that is good about this whole fiasco is Deeproot does not want to reveal anything until they can promise to deliver so that there is no delay to receive the games for people who purchase them. I am all for it that they want things to be perfected before people receive their games. We all have to wait and see what they produce, but I am not giving up on them. I am ready to see a magical world under glass, and I hope they make that happen. Come on Deeproot. Don’t disappoint us.

My first TPF as well, and a good part of the reason for going was yhe Deeproot reveal. This sucks, and although it will likely sour me a bit on anything they crank out, it is not the show promoters fault and i decided to go anyway. Probably the only time i will go, so o hope there will be some other excitement.

#2011 5 months ago

Wish they had a website with some teasers or fabrication pics at the least, maybe even just showing some workers, parts, the pinball teams office, microwaves?
Jpop drawing some layouts, Santas little helpers, anything.
It all feels like an empty shell this way for mutch to long.

#2012 5 months ago

I have no idea what Deeproot are working on but my best guest (based on Pinball's next logical progression) would be a mix of a real physical game and some virtual elements.

Andrew Heighway had an idea of using a screen overlay to cover the entire playfield on which images could be projected. We later developed this idea into using a virtual visor that the player would wear which could project in real time 3D, overlaid animations to a game of pinball. Very similar to what Pinball FX3 are doing now, but for real.

The visor idea is many years in the future but what I think Deeproot might be attempting is the full screen overlay which can project animations of explosions, sparks, smoke onto the playfield.

This isn't a new idea and I've been doing this myself in my own virtual games for nearly a decade - adding holographic animations to games like Medieval Madness (castle explosions) and Iron Man (lighting bolts).

But on a real table, it's never been done before.

Imagine a smoke bomb that obscures part of the playfield for a second or two, dropped by a player using a mobile app? The possibilities are endless.

It may be a tough sell to seasoned old farts, but the new generation will love it.

It's the next step in pinball's evolution. Only question is, who's going to get there first.

#2013 5 months ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

ell if they have 30+ full time creative / engineering roles, a big facility and have a bunch of off site software contractors, then that's going to get eaten up pretty quickly with payroll, rent, power etc

That seems like a ton? Does stern even employ that many? If they are spending 750k now imagine how much they'll spend when they actually building machines.

#2014 5 months ago
Quoted from pin2d:

deeproot Pinball's launch has been postponed - find the details here:
https://thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-launch-postponed/

Somehow I'm not surprised. Have to remain skeptical.

#2015 5 months ago

I've been curious if fiberglass reinforced plywood would be a way to make playfields much more durable. This material is what is commonly used in trailers and box trucks for the transportation industry. There is a thin layer of fiberglass laminated to a plywood substrate. The scoops would still wear, but I would think with the traditional screen printing and a clear coat, this stuff would be extremely durable over traditional wood over the rest of the playfield.

#2016 5 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I've been curious if fiberglass reinforced plywood would be a way to make playfields much more durable. This material is what is commonly used in trailers and box trucks for the transportstion industry. There is a thin layer of fiberglass laminated to a plywood substrate. The scoops would still wear, but I would think with the traditional screen printing and a clear coat, this stuff would be extremely durable over traditional wood over the rest of the playfield.

That stuff is heavy as hell, isn’t it? There’s got to be a balance there. If it costs double to ship a game and you need 4 people to move it, it may be a challenge

#2017 5 months ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

That stuff is heavy as hell, isn’t it? There’s got to be a balance there. If it costs double to ship a game and you need 4 people to move it, it may be a challenge

My experience is it is the same as regular plywood...it just has a 1/32" or so skin of smooth fiberglass laminated to the top. My current employer actually has a division that makes this product...I should dig into it more and see what specs I can find on it.

#2018 5 months ago

Something one must keep in mind with a transparent LCD is that is can only block light, not create it. You'd have to make the inside cabinet very bright to act as a backlight. You'd also have light losses with the pair of polarization filters.

You'd also have to track or somehow detect the height and position of the player to make sure the FX are drawn in the correct spot for perspective.

Also re: visor - nobody is going to wear that. Sorry. It's the secret reason why VR is dead.

#2019 5 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I've been curious if fiberglass reinforced plywood would be a way to make playfields much more durable.

Why can't they be made out of that fake wood look-a-like stuff they make decks out of?

#2020 5 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

nobody is going to wear that. Sorry. It's the secret reason why VR is dead.

For pinball, yeah, I can't see people putting a helmet on. But the shot at VR wasn't necessary or correct.

https://www.roadtovr.com/steam-vr-user-population-usage/

#2021 5 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

You'd have to make the inside cabinet very bright to act as a backlight

Pinstadium-like lights

Quoted from benheck:

You'd also have light losses with the pair of polarization filters

I think consumers can accept this, they already accept a darker movie experience when they watch the 3D version. They also accepted pin2k (5,000 units wasn't a failure at the time, nor today. Williams killed off the company because slots were more profitable).

Quoted from benheck:

You'd also have to track or somehow detect the height and position of the player to make sure the FX are drawn in the correct spot for perspective

Correct, at least within reason (accuracy probably only has to be every few inches). This can be done several ways (webcam with good software, multiple lasers that detect distance being blocked)

Quoted from benheck:

visor - nobody is going to wear that. Sorry. It's the secret reason why VR is dead.

I honestly don't know how VR ever exists in a public space. I think it sorta took off in the late 80's because it was so groundbreaking you were willing to put up with sharing a visor, look at blocky graphics, and have a cord yanking on your back. VR at home does make sense sorta, however most of us don't have living rooms with giant open spaces like they show in every ad.. Hence your point on your podcast talking about how flight sim/racing/floating games are perfect for VR because you can experience them sitting in place on your couch.

#2022 5 months ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Why can't they be made out of that fake wood look-a-like stuff they make decks out of?

If you are talking about the plastic Trex variety, I would think that would warp and sag over a 21" x 43" playfield. I haven't been in the field for a few years, but I am fairly sure they still do not have synthetic structural members for decks because of this inherent weakness.

As for the fiberglass laminated plywood, the one tricky thing would be leveling the inserts. Currently, the inserts are glued into the milled cavities slightly above the wood playing surface, and then the whole playfield is run through a drum sander so everything comes out level. Given the thin fiberglass layer, you would not be able to sand that thin laminated surface much at all, or you may blow through it. However, if you can accurately control the initial plywood material thickness, you may be able to precision sand the inserts down level to that fiberglass surface without blowing through the fiberglass layer.

I had a scrap piece of this FRP plywood material I used for a work bench surface once, and it took hammer blows without denting. When Deeproot mentioned taking a hammer to the playfield, this is what I thought of.

#2023 5 months ago

Ben heck, current VR may be dead, but is it going to stay that way? My experience has seen the equipment getting lighter and less cumbersome. It is just a matter of mass, bandwidth (resolution), and lag... once all three of those problems are ironed out, VR can be fun. I've played Beat Saber on the latest commercial gear, along with a bunch of other VR titles, and they are getting better. Not sure, but resolution and bandwidth and lag will be a problem with trying to play virtual pinball right now, but not that far into the future. You are spot on on the LCD playfield.

#2024 5 months ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Ben heck, current VR may be dead, but is it going to stay that way? My experience has seen the equipment getting lighter and less cumbersome. It is just a matter of mass, bandwidth (resolution), and lag... once all three of those problems are ironed out, VR can be fun. I've played Beat Saber on the latest commercial gear, along with a bunch of other VR titles, and they are getting better. Not sure, but resolution and bandwidth and lag will be a problem with trying to play virtual pinball right now, but not that far into the future. You are spot on on the LCD playfield.

Nobody wants to wear that Shit. It’s why 3D TV flopped.

I’m not surprised at all that not a single person I know is into VR.

#2025 5 months ago

crazylevi, yes, they won't wear it now, but would they if is was like wearing a pair of lightweight snow goggles or sunglasses? Technology answers these problems and people have to adopt it. As an early adopter, I lead the charge for new tech... and so VR pinball is something that is coming, I believe, just how or what we might (or might not) have to wear will definitely change, and probably be something we have not seen yet. And if they are all geniuses at dr, maybe they have something to show us, just not at TPF (or at all? )

#2026 5 months ago

Stupid 3D glasses for 3D televisions are definitely the reason it died.

Face tracking isn’t too difficult though. The New Nintendo 3DS has a pair of cameras on the front to track eye distance and head movement, and offers a damn good glasses-free 3D experience regardless of how it’s held or how much you move your head. It’s almost like magic. Pretty cool, even if it offers almost zero gameplay advantages.

#2027 5 months ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

Stupid 3D glasses for 3D televisions are definitely the reason it died.

The passive glasses are the same ones you wear in the theatre. Almost every major film still comes out in 3D. Many of the 3D Blu Ray releases sell out except now we send our money overseas to get them. Most of my "film friends" have 3D TV or 3D projection. A bunch of them have bought extra TV's and store them. (just in case) Some of the 3D capable TV's are now in the $1,500 to $2,500 range! Bah!
When the new Avatar films come out, maybe there will be a resurgence....

#2028 5 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

As for the fiberglass laminated plywood, the one tricky thing would be leveling the inserts.

Perhaps they could laminate a hardtop type playfield to a cnc routed piece of plywood. Plastic inserts woudn't be needed if the hardtop could support the ball over the insert hole. Would greatly simplify playfield production.

#2029 5 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

My experience is it is the same as regular plywood...it just has a 1/32" or so skin of smooth fiberglass laminated to the top. My current employer actually has a division that makes this product...I should dig into it more and see what specs I can find on it.

Gotcha - I may be mixing it up with injected plywood then; sort of like pressure treated wood, although epoxy is pulled into wood pores using osmosis (i think...) super heavy stuff.

#2030 5 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

Something one must keep in mind with a transparent LCD is that is can only block light, not create it. You'd have to make the inside cabinet very bright to act as a backlight.

This is obviously not an issue - have you seen PinStadium?!? seriously - IMO this could be used over say half the PF, with traditional glass still over it; you could change the game layout or hide the ball, with just a small number of lanes (or pins!) to trap the ball in concert with animations on the trans LCD

#2031 5 months ago
Quoted from spfxted:

The passive glasses are the same ones you wear in the theatre.

Good point, but as an already-glasses wearer, I actively avoid 3D movies for that exact reason. Wearing glasses over my glasses has always been a big pain in the butt. They never quite fit right, and it’s super clunky.

3D was cool at Disney, but for movies, at least for me, it becomes uncomfortable to the point where it ends up removing me from the experience.

#2032 5 months ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

Good point, but as an already-glasses wearer, I actively avoid 3D movies for that exact reason. Wearing glasses over my glasses has always been a big pain in the butt. They never quite fit right, and it’s super clunky.
3D was cool at Disney, but for movies, at least for me, it becomes uncomfortable to the point where it ends up removing me from the experience.

IMO Dialed In has a very interesting example - not 3D - but a unique integration of video with the Quantum Theater. Ghostbusters too? I think?

#2033 5 months ago
e86d288c-8468-11e8-ad57-41bbac1aa85d-780x501 (resized).jpg
#2034 5 months ago

If it’s 3D or VR I have no interest. My PlayStation VR goes untouched these days

What could be interesting is video on the glass like they do with slot machines today

#2035 5 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

If you are talking about the plastic Trex variety, I would think that would warp and sag over a 21" x 43" playfield. I haven't been in the field for a few years, but I am fairly sure they still do not have synthetic structural members for decks because of this inherent weakness.

Correct. I had a Trex deck put in my back yard this summer. The load bearing members are still made from real wood.

#2036 5 months ago
Quoted from spfxted:

The passive glasses are the same ones you wear in the theatre. Almost every major film still comes out in 3D. Many of the 3D Blu Ray releases sell out except now we send our money overseas to get them. Most of my "film friends" have 3D TV or 3D projection. A bunch of them have bought extra TV's and store them. (just in case) Some of the 3D capable TV's are now in the $1,500 to $2,500 range! Bah!
When the new Avatar films come out, maybe there will be a resurgence....

3D wasn't even part of the 4K Blu-Ray spec. It's dead.

#2037 5 months ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

3D wasn't even part of the 4K Blu-Ray spec. It's dead.

3D isn't possible yet in 4k consumer players; it'll be back

-1
#2038 5 months ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

3D isn't possible yet in 4k consumer players; it'll be back

It's not a matter of possibility....it was left out on purpose.

#2039 5 months ago

Yeah, um, about those Deeproot pinball machines...

#2040 5 months ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

3D isn't possible yet in 4k consumer players; it'll be back

Quoted from Sinestro:

It's not a matter of possibility....it was left out on purpose.

Not what I meant - it’s not in the UHD spec, but it will be back in some format. UHD supports HDR, the only-slightly-less-gut-wrenching-than-motion-smoothing feature, which is this cycle’s 3D. 3D will be back eventually in some future format

#2041 5 months ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Not what I meant - it’s not in the UHD spec, but it will be back in some format. UHD supports HDR, the only-slightly-less-gut-wrenching-than-motion-smoothing feature, which is this cycle’s 3D. 3D will be back eventually in some future format

What's the beef with HDR? Super vibrant colors are all good in my book. Nothing like that soap opera effect BS they set as the default on the new TVs such that you can barely watch a show at the bar anymore.

3D would be just fine if they could do it without special glasses. But has has been noted a time or two here, no one wants to wear special glasses. Maybe in 10 years when we're all wearing Google Glasses or smart contacts all the time anyway it'll be an easier sell.

#2042 5 months ago
Quoted from captainadam_21:

That seems like a ton? Does stern even employ that many? If they are spending 750k now imagine how much they'll spend when they actually building machines.

I think they’ve already built thousands of ready-to-sell games and they’re just teasing us.

#2043 5 months ago

3D = gimmick to sell more TVs

4k TV = gimmick to sell more TV's (you can't see difference from 1080p unless you sit 3 feet from screen)

4k gaming = gimmick to sell more graphics cards that cost a fortune thanks Bitcoin

VR = cool tech but nobody wants to wear that when gaming.

#2044 5 months ago
55942664 (resized).jpg
#2045 5 months ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

What's the beef with HDR? Super vibrant colors are all good in my book. Nothing like that soap opera effect BS they set as the default on the new TVs such that you can barely watch a show at the bar anymore.
3D would be just fine if they could do it without special glasses. But has has been noted a time or two here, no one wants to wear special glasses. Maybe in 10 years when we're all wearing Google Glasses or smart contacts all the time anyway it'll be an easier sell.

Agreed 100% HDR and "True/Smooth Motion" are two completely separate things. HDR allows more colors on video to better capture all of the 35mm frame's glory.

True Motion is shit with a capital S.

#2046 5 months ago
Quoted from Stuart_Pitt9876:

Yeah, um, about those Deeproot pinball machines...

What about them? Got any info?

Didn't think so, so relax.

#2047 5 months ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

Agreed 100% HDR and "True/Smooth Motion" are two completely separate things. HDR allows more colors on video to better capture all of the 35mm frame's glory.
True Motion is shit with a capital S.

see Ben's post

#2048 5 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Nobody wants to wear that Shit. It’s why 3D TV flopped.
I’m not surprised at all that not a single person I know is into VR.

I know lots, including myself. Yes, it has its drawbacks, but it also has its fans. I mean, come on, Pinball was dead too according to the populous and currently even though it isn't cheap it is still cheaper than pinball. Oh and PSVR is a joke and shouldn't even be called VR.

#2049 5 months ago

Captain Eo

11
#2050 5 months ago
Quoted from ralphcousman:

It’s far past the time to get new people designing and creating.

The last ~2 years have seen 3 new games designed by new designers, more than the last 25 years combined, I believe. I'm not even counting TBL and Thunderbirds due to their very low production runs. However, technically these games alone represent 2 new designs by new designers.

The designs I am referring to are Iron Maiden, TNA, and POTC. They also account for a somewhat low percentage of all machines produced over the past ~2 years, but new designers are emerging, none-the-less.

OK, off-topic, I know. Back to Deeproot......
I wish them all the best. Pinball is a big commitment and getting it right always takes longer than expected.

When we made our little Scoregasm machine 4 years ago it took about 3 times longer than I thought it would take and it was about 10 times harder than I originally envisioned it would be.

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