I'll wager a bushel of corn to be donated to a local food pantry that there is no update today
(Topic ID: 203700)
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Quoted from DakotaMike:So what's the over-under on deeproot actually giving an update by the end of the day?
Waaay over. or under. Whichever means no update. I don't gamble much.
Madison, WI
Quoted from benheck:Is Robert going to keep John as a pet after all this is over?
John is like one of those ghost stories where you have to pawn off the evil to someone else to be free of the curse. That's why Robert was trying to sucker someone into a buyout...
Quoted from TreyBo69:John is like one of those ghost stories where you have to pawn off the evil to someone else to be free of the curse. That's why Robert was trying to sucker someone into a buyout...
Or the other analogy (heh heh he said anal) is JPop is like Grandma's fruit cake, passed gladly from relative to relative but never actually enjoyed by anyone.
Quoted from benheck:Robert, I know this is me giving advice without a license or some shit, but maybe, just maybe when EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE warns you against hiring someone...
.... Maybe don't hire them?
Robert needs to get together with Tommy Tallarico. Has anyone been following that Intellivision Amico mess in the video game world? Very very similar.
Quoted from Rarehero:Robert needs to get together with Tommy Tallarico. Has anyone been following that Intellivision Amico mess in the video game world? Very very similar.
Much like deeproot, parts of the logo are very Freudian
I love keeping up with all the terrible console stuff, like the Atari VCS that also came out recently. The best was the Coleco Chameleon collapse
Quoted from benheck:Robert, I know this is me giving advice without a license or some shit, but maybe, just maybe when EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE warns you against hiring someone...
.... Maybe don't hire them?
at the very least he should have simply contracted him, he would be much easier to get rid of early on. Once you hire someone you have to prove they aren't fulfilling their job duties, which usually entails a job review.
Quoted from toyotaboy:at the very least he should have simply contracted him, he would be much easier to get rid of early on. Once you hire someone you have to prove they aren't fulfilling their job duties, which usually entails a job review.
That’s the most odd thing here. Shouldn’t it have been obvious what his productivity was if not from the history, certainly under directly observed working conditions. Wouldn’t you pretty much immediately know that you have to cut bait sooner rather than later here ? Even a bad manager has to recognize when they have bad employees right ? I mean you had other designers in house so it wasn’t like he was stuck with John without recourse.
Quoted from toyotaboy:at the very least he should have simply contracted him, he would be much easier to get rid of early on. Once you hire someone you have to prove they aren't fulfilling their job duties, which usually entails a job review.
Texas is employment at will state, so you can be fired for just about whatever
And come on, it can't be that hard to find a legitimate cause...
Quoted from DakotaMike:So what's the over-under on deeproot actually giving an update by the end of the day?
Magic 8 Ball would say : Not Likely
Could be that there might not be another "update" coming at all. Maybe an announcement at some point, and quite possibly not a good one.
Probably a period of silence for awhile yet.... When they said last time nothing until after the 4th of July that was not a good harbinger of things to come.
Here it is almost the end of July, and Nothing has happened with the mention of week of July 19th " or sooner ".
Technically tomorrow is still the week of, so it could be then. Just not normal business hours is all.
Quoted from pookycade:That’s the most odd thing here. Shouldn’t it have been obvious what his productivity was if not from the history, certainly under directly observed working conditions. Wouldn’t you pretty much immediately know that you have to cut bait sooner rather than later here ? Even a bad manager has to recognize when they have bad employees right ? I mean you had other designers in house so it wasn’t like he was stuck with John without recourse.
Robert was head over heels in the JPOP Reality Distortion Zone. All he cares about is art - hence the perfect "mark" for John.
From what I've seen John was very much in control of things. Will be interesting to find out how much so when the dust settles.
Quoted from benheck:He was right about deeproot too. The games were a pitch deck (very obvious to an ad guy like Chris) the big reveal was an investment pitch. Guessing nobody took a swing at that foul ball...
But how much did they think they were going to make, realistically, on a pitch? They burned over $10 million in salaries rent etc... did they think someone was going to come along and say, this "company" is awesome, let me fork over $20 million? Who exactly would do this? If it's a pitch its the dumbest one I've ever heard of. If they expected Stern to buy them, I mean, Stern probably makes $100 million in annual revenue but I seriously doubt they have just $20 million in cash lying around to acquire... what exactly? One game?
Were they looking for a greater fool, literally a billionaire who likes playing pinball but knows nothing about the industry?
Quoted from Richthofen:But how much did they think they were going to make, realistically, on a pitch? They burned over $10 million in salaries rent etc... did they think someone was going to come along and say, this "company" is awesome, let me fork over $20 million? Who exactly would do this? If it's a pitch its the dumbest one I've ever heard of. If they expected Stern to buy them, I mean, Stern probably makes $100 million in annual revenue but I seriously doubt they have just $20 million in cash lying around to acquire... what exactly? One game?
Were they looking for a greater fool, literally a billionaire who likes playing pinball but knows nothing about the industry?
They were probably looking for some silicon valley tech bros that like pinball. Hence the focus on them talking about using Unity, patents and technology to license/troll-with, online services with subscription models, putting a touch screen in that could display ads and other content, famous names attached to the company, a giant animation studio, etc...
The company was ran like a tech start up and not a manufacturing start up.
I guess the plan would be spend 20 million, get bought for 25m = 25% ROI over 4 years for the investors?
But who in the industry would buy it? That's a huge capital outlay, yes even for Stern (they're not Apple FFS)
Why would Stern blow 25m to get 5 shitty themes nobody wants when (by their numbers) that same cash would make them 25 new games from scratch with good licenses?
Stern also (likely) doesn't care about "gotcha" patents because they make plenty of money the old fashioned way - by BUILDING THINGS.
Quoted from benheck:I guess the plan would be spend 20 million, get bought for 25m = 25% ROI over 4 years for the investors?
But who in the industry would buy it? That's a huge capital outlay, yes even for Stern (they're not Apple FFS)
Why would Stern blow 25m to get 5 shitty themes nobody wants when (by their numbers) that same cash would make them 25 new games from scratch with good licenses?
Stern also (likely) doesn't care about "gotcha" patents because they make plenty of money the old fashioned way - by BUILDING THINGS.
Is that fairly accurate? About $1M for a game w/ license?
Quoted from insight75:Is that fairly accurate? About $1M for a game w/ license?
Gary has given that number many times.
Does anyone have a guess what JJP and Stern sold for? JJP is owned by a family I think. Gary sold some/all of the company to a private equity firm (Hagerty Peterson & Co?)
Quoted from insight75:Is that fairly accurate? About $1M for a game w/ license?
I've heard exWilliams guys from the 90s say $1m to fully develop a title. Probably not that far off for Stern. Less mechanics going in the game but a lot more software, plus inflation.
Quoted from benheck:Is Robert going to keep John as a pet after all this is over?
As long as John dresses like this, Robert will keep him around...
Gimp2 (resized).jpgBusiness 101 :
A company would have to produce a profit to have some sort of value.
I’ve never responded in the thread, but after reading both threads, some transparency would save a lot of grief. To leave the customer in the dark makes no sense.
Norwich
Quoted from DakotaMike:So what's the over-under on deeproot actually giving an update by the end of the day?
Today would be the best day the announce its closing. Spooky customers are getting pin production #'s,(Which has to be like a knife to the gut). His news will be overshadowed big time.
Quoted from Drewscruis:As long as John dresses like this, Robert will keep him around...
[quoted image]
Seems, the other way around. Boss likes to be punished.
Quoted from benheck:And Robert BLEW his shot to invest in Spooky back in 2015 by being a scummy, JPOP-obsessed skinflint.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Tell us how you really feel, Ben 
.
Quoted from frolic:Tell us how you really feel, Ben .
Sorry. It's not storytime until deeproot is ash.
4pT0.gifQuoted from JamesUK:Trust me, a business does not have to have any profit to have some value. It does have to have a chance at profit though
God I wish I could see Robert pitch deeproot on Shark Tank/Dragon's Den
Sydney
If Deeproot was a ”pitch deck” play all along he picked the wrong industry. All these companies are too frugal and I’m assuming margins are relatively low. Ok, Stern may have bumped margins up recently, but that’s one company and they’ve proven themselves to be pretty frugal. JJP won’t even give out washers for faulty games let alone pay millions for development and ideas.
These are cost plus production companies first and foremost. Design, ideas and marketing are what you do with the small amount of budget that’s left over after you work out how much it actually costs to make the game.
It’s not like tech industries where nothing tangible is produced, no profit is made, and companies have ridiculous valuations and investor capital based on pie in the sky dreams.
Quoted from TreyBo69:I'll wager a bushel of corn to be donated to a local food pantry that there is no update today
No one took me up on my offer, but I paid for a few bushels anyhow because I got a bonus check today (yes I have a job besides trolling this thread)
Quoted from benheck:Schadenfreude is HOT in the doco world right now! I get a lot of ads for a new one on WeWork (landlords who pretended to be a tech company)
Maybe we'll get one one Deeproot!
WeWork was/is like a virus. Our company has three offices in different regions and each was being crowded out by WeWork. The one in Los Angeles was just opening in March 2020 after like a year of disruptive construction. I doubt that worked out well for them.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Much like deeproot, parts of the logo are very Freudian
[quoted image]
I love keeping up with all the terrible console stuff, like the Atari VCS that also came out recently. The best was the Coleco Chameleon collapse
Yeah, all these people who try to get a piece of the retro pie but don't understand the market at all is pretty astounding. I casually knew the Chameleon guy from the arcade auction scene...when I saw he was trying to make a weird fake retro console, it was pretty fascinating...and a totally predictable failure.
The ongoing saga of Tommy, his fake useless console, and his narcissism and drama are just fascinating to watch.
Before the Chameleon Mike Kennedy tried to make, what was it? Retro VCS or something? His big plan was that it would have CARTRIDGES!
He called me once asking advice. Tried to be nice but the guy didn't understand that people aren't nostalgic for cartridges they're nostalgic for the GAMES. But.... He ran an online auction site so his brain only "thinks" in terms of physical media
Quoted from TreyBo69:No one took me up on my offer, but I paid for a few bushels anyhow because I got a bonus check today (yes I have a job besides trolling this thread)
[quoted image]
Quoted from benheck:Before the Chameleon Mike Kennedy tried to make, what was it? Retro VCS or something? His big plan was that it would have CARTRIDGES!
He called me once asking advice. Tried to be nice but the guy didn't understand that people aren't nostalgic for cartridges they're nostalgic for the GAMES. But.... He ran an online auction site so his brain only "thinks" in terms of physical media
People do like cartridges - but there are plenty of consoles that exist with cartridges to collect - he wasn’t offering anything compelling or desirable to that market. Plus, the system itself was a hoax…so…yeah. lol
Likewise, Tommy is going for the “casual” gamer…but they already have everything they’d want with mobile & Nintendo…and then Tommy will say something stupid like “yeah, if you want games with rape, get a Switch”. He’s such a clown.
Seems like the Blaze Evercade is actually doing a nice job of making a “new retro” system. There’s a portable & a TV unit that are pretty cheap, and all the cartridges are compilations for $20.
I'm still shocked the Atari VCS actually was made. I mean there's still no point to it, but, yeah.
But yeah the Amiico is just diving into a red ocean. Console means nothing GAMES are all that matters. It's why Nintendo can run their "never goes on sale" racket with the Switch.
Also cartridges DO load... Myth busted!
I’m ordering a Play date. They get that it’s about nice hardware and eclectic game designs from various indie developers, not trying to compete with real video game consoles or mini PCs
8185101A-E93F-457A-BEA1-69F1696322E6 (resized).jpeg
The Atari VCS is so bizarre and their subreddit is full of astroturfing by people invested in Atari as a penny stock. Remember the Atari Hotels they also wanted to build? If anything the Atari name is a red flag these days
Quoted from TreyBo69:I’m ordering a Play date. They get that it’s about nice hardware and eclectic designs from various indie developers, not trying to compete with real video game consoles or mini PCs
Yeah, I’m totally going in on a Playdate. Looks super cute & weird. Sorry, Tommy! Lol
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Playdate = what jpop calls going to the office?
Instead of BurgerTime it's NoodleTime
Quoted from benheck:The pitch deck callout IS important. And that's when Chris started changing his tune. \
please stop trying to praise him as being on target for calling the ball on deeproot. Chris was on Robert's johnson for so long. Chris' focus is hype - so people promising awesome and 'new' is right up his alley. Plus, another guy that throws his wallet around as part of his credibility? That makes him feel like brothers from another mother.
All one needs to go is go back through the thread and prior content to see reality.
Quoted from toyotaboy:at the very least he should have simply contracted him, he would be much easier to get rid of early on. Once you hire someone you have to prove they aren't fulfilling their job duties, which usually entails a job review.
Texas is employment at will. They can drop him like a hot potato at any time. No need to justify a termination - just avoid claims of discrimination.
Quoted from seenev:Or they're all working together. I stopped listening a while ago but k's enthusiasm for spooky and spooky alone was... Odd.
Actually K man craps all over R&M on a regular basis, and has said that it has a design flaw.
Quoted from Richthofen:But how much did they think they were going to make, realistically, on a pitch? They burned over $10 million in salaries rent etc... did they think someone was going to come along and say, this "company" is awesome, let me fork over $20 million? Who exactly would do this? If it's a pitch its the dumbest one I've ever heard of. If they expected Stern to buy them, I mean, Stern probably makes $100 million in annual revenue but I seriously doubt they have just $20 million in cash lying around to acquire... what exactly? One game?
Were they looking for a greater fool, literally a billionaire who likes playing pinball but knows nothing about the industry?
From the beginning you could see the potential buyer would have had to be outside the existing industry.
The whole DR pitch was a move that says
Pinball is hot! But it can be so much more!
Look at all this intellectual property!
Look at how we are gonna generate recurring revenue!
Look at how we will expand the addressable market!
Look at how we will target a wide range of price points!
It's all stuff aimed at convincing someone deeproot would be an innovator that would blow away the existing pinball paradigm and expectation of revenues by: opening up the TAM, bring in concepts like recurring revenue and new delivery models.
It was never about 'building the best pinball'. It was about taking an appreciated concept (pinball) and creating all kinds of new product avenues.
But it was all stuff you say trying to generate interest. But where was the cohesive strategy to do something BETTER or new? It was about painting a picture of capitalizing on growth opportunities.
It was never a pitch to a Stern or Pinball person -- It was about presenting future potentials and enough core IP to say Deeproot would be the vehicle to realize those futures. (which is how companies with no profits or sales are given huge valuations)
Quoted from billyboy:Business 101 :
A company would have to produce a profit to have some sort of value.
No... a company has to have some asset that either
a) is something someone else wants
b) is something that generates value
c) is something that can be converted into things others critically need
Which is why every startup today is about generating a large user base - not profits. A large captive audience is one of the most valuable things in the digital world today... even if only to sell ads to, let alone to convert sales with.
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