did that patent end up being granted? anyone have a link?
(Topic ID: 203700)
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I don't see how it would be possible to defend such a patent. But that wouldn't stop them / others from trying, and then asking for monies to go away and stop bothering people.
Allyn, WA
Quoted from frolic:did that patent end up being granted? anyone have a link?
https://patents.google.com/?inventor=john+popadiuk
display with sensors specifically:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20130147111A1/en?inventor=john+popadiuk
hard to believe it was granted.
three non-final rejections and one final rejection during the process.
https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair
enter application number: 13/709056
[may take a while for site to respond]
select "transaction history" from the menu.
for the description,
choose "public documents" then select either "view".
images can be accessed from "images" button at bottom of page.
select "full pages" from left margin.
for me, images worked in chrome, but not IE browser.
best access for both images and description.
Can someone please post the pic of the pinball gremlins playfield used as a bar end to remind me how this will probably end.
Quoted from toyotaboy:display with sensors specifically:
It's only the claims that matter in a patent. There is only one main claim and everything else is dependent on that claim (claim #1). All that claim says is that there is a display, one or more sensors, and a reaction on the display. No matter how many times I read claim #1 I don't see how Pinball 2000 would not be prior art that would invalidate that claim.
Of course, that won't prevent the costly lawsuit it will take to get the patent revoked.
Quoted from KerryImming:Of course, that won't prevent the costly lawsuit it will take to get the patent revoked.
IPRs are much cheaper at least.
1 month later
I know there is a lot of "deeproot fatigue", so forgive me for bumping this.
We have a follow up interview with deeproot coming up Thursday, which includes:
- New Home for deeproot Pinball
- New Hires, including three additional experienced pinball designers
- Updates for Zidware customers and submitting questions to be answered on an upcoming podcast
- The Five Days of deeproot: schedule and more details
- Plus an interview with Robert Mueller of deeproot which includes:
In your last interview, some in the pinball community thought you came across as over-confident or arrogant, particularly with your comment about doing pinball being "easy". Do you have any comments regarding the last interview?
What is your plan for previous Zidware customers, do you still plan to do a webinar to answer their questions?
What about Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) and Jim Askey (Applejuice)?
What does the rest of 2018 look like for deeproot Pinball?
How long did deeproot spend researching and/or considering pinball before making the decision to enter the pinball industry?
What has been the most challenging thing deeproot has faced so far while entering the pinball industry?
A position that is missing from the New Hires is a software person - who will be coding the deeproot machines?
You mention no assembly line - can you expand on how the machines will be built without an assembly line?
Has deeproot built a "test" pinball machine?
Has deeproot obtained any license for a theme for a pinball machine?
Still need to do a few tweaks but the interview is scheduled for release tomorrow at 6:00 AM EST. The main point of this release of info seems to be to announce the Zidware Webinar and Claims schedule as it sounds like they want to take care of that before moving forward, but Robert from deeproot opened up a bit more in this interview about deeproot's plans. He even gives the title and theme of one of the machines they are planning/hoping to build...a title they designed in house that seems a bit "fitting" for an already controversial company.
Can't wait to see what they have to say. I'm all for giving a new company a chance, but still don't understand why they choose to take on the baggage of JPop. Seems they have started to make good on promises to Apple Juice and Zombie, so that's a start in the right direction. I really just don't want to see anyone else hurt. My biggest fear is that they will become patent trolls, trying to make their money by filing lawsuits against other manufacturers.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Quality of a Ferrari at a Kia price. Can't wait to see it.
To be fair, the Kia requires much less maintenance than the Ferrari.
So what you end up with is a cheap, high maintenance machine is what I think they are getting at.
From This Week in Pinball:
deeproot Pinball: New Home, New Hires, 5 Days of deeproot, EXCLUSIVE follow up interview:
congrats on the continuing good work.
I posted these comments in the large jpop thread, reposting here:
I know Robert is very bullish on this, but I've said before my biggest mistake with jpop (and other pinball startups in the rainbow days of 5+ years ago) was that I went against my own business instincts and what makes sense.
Right now this just seems like a bonfire of cash, raised from "other people's money".
And the biggest issue to me, from a business standpoint, is if I allow them the "Ferrari at Kia price" and "making pinball is easy" and "we're doing this in a disruptive way" is that the MARKET for pinball is still.... TINY.
If this passed my desk as a VC play, it wouldn't last 30 seconds.
So, at least it isn't my money going up.
Quoted from pin2d:From This Week in Pinball:
deeproot Pinball: New Home, New Hires, 5 Days of deeproot, EXCLUSIVE follow up interview:
http://thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-new-home-new-hires-5-days-deeproot-exclusive-follow-interview/
Which guy is Robert?
Toronto, ON
They designed our financial system.
Yeah, they are totally ready to design a real time embedded control system plus also design and code a pinball machine, which has the complexity of a AAA video game title with the added fun of supporting analog mechanical devices.
Totally the same.
Quoted from greenhornet:hard to believe it was granted.
three non-final rejections and one final rejection during the process.
https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair
enter application number: 13/709056
[may take a while for site to respond]
select "transaction history" from the menu.
for the description,
choose "public documents" then select either "view".
images can be accessed from "images" button at bottom of page.
select "full pages" from left margin.
for me, images worked in chrome, but not IE browser.
best access for both images and description.
http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=09707471&IDKey=74EE409D4018&HomeUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft1.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D9707471.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F9707471%2526RS%3DPN%2F9707471
In the patent world it ain’t over until it’s over. And even then it still ain’t over. Persistence can pay off. The fact he still pursued the patent despite rejection and still pursued Pinball despite being despised by all of us sort of fits. What is unusual is that all those back and forth a with the patent office cost a lot of lawyer time and I’m surprised they felt the patent was of high enough value to be worth it.
Quoted from epthegeek:What a load of crap.
Agreed because Jpop. Anything he is attached to is doomed to fail. I sure would love to be proven wrong though!
Fantastic coverage by TWIP. The interview and pics offer a rare peek inside deeproot's mindset and their war room. Hope they can pull this off, but the steps taken so far are counter intuitive.
Starting from a point of having never manufactured/sold a single pinball machine - hire toxic JPOP and build a pinball company based on all of his failed themes, hire enough staff to produce 4 or 5 pinball machines, lease a facility capable of producing 100 games a week (my guess), design manufacturing and accounting systems to run a pinball company in a new manner without real world testing, introduce a new type of system for programming rules and a/v and declare yourself the industry winner before completing the first design.
The favorable qualities that DR has going for it 1) it is well funded 2) they are demonstrating a focused vision of where they want to go and 3) they are moving at a quick pace. Managing of details, politics and luck all have a hand in deeproot's success. However they can only expect to have influence over one of those factors. It is execution, more so in pinball than many industries, that will determine their fate. There is a lot of work to be done!
That interview reads like he doesn't even know that he doesn't know much about pinball or manufacturing and wants to sound confident enough to attract outside investors.
My favorite Deeproot innovation is the elimination of whitewoods and test machines, which have always been a huge waste of time and money. These guys get it!
First machine is a religious theme with a license from a christian comic book maker.
JPop.
Still concerns about patent trolling.
Massively arrogant.
What could possibly go wrong?
----
I'm very surprised to hear of Barry Oursler and Dennis Nordman getting involved. Plus, how could they be exclusive to Deeproot as the article claims? Nordman is doing Elvira, and Oursler is apparently back working for HW's new operators, on games 3 & 4.
Screenshot of deeproot sales pitch...
3291D32D-6504-4F01-AF1F-AD3643E8A4C6-5277-000009AECDA5EFCE (resized).png
The 5 days of deeproot will transform your life! Do not miss this amazing opportunity! Call now to get your tickets... they will be at the Columbus Hilton fri and Saturday. At the Toledo Sheraton next weekend, and the Farmington hills Hyatt the following weekend.
Don't miss out, all attendees will be a free copy of Roberts best selling book on how to flip homes with no money of your own!
Quoted from rubberducks:I'm very surprised to hear of Barry Oursler and Dennis Nordman getting involved.
But I suspect this venture will be more like
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:Agreed because Jpop. Anything he is attached to is doomed to fail. I sure would love to be proven wrong though!
It is clear JPop is a terrible businessman but that's not his job here. JPop can be an amazing designer but he can never finish anything. The only thing deeproot needs to do is let JPop dream of something and force him to pass the design to a second designer with a team of mechanical engineers to make the thing actually work. Isn't it how it played out with JPop's past masterpieces anyway?
Quoted from clempo:It is clear JPop is a terrible businessman but that's not his job here. JPop can be an amazing designer but he can never finish anything.
Is there a single "legend" in pinball built upon so little? We are talking about a small handful of games, from decades ago.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Is there a single "legend" in pinball built upon so little? We are talking about a small handful of games, from decades ago.
Who had to be bailed out by several other designers on *every* game
Quoted from clempo:That's exactly my point. If the formula worked to produce masterpieces, why not try to duplicate it.
The formula DIDN'T produce masterpieces. His games are for the most part poorly regarded by serious players. They are flawed games that some find gorgeous and some find incredibly tacky, with ridiculous, problem-ridden development cycles and BOMs that helped put Williams out of the pinball business.
People need to stop backing this horse already. The most spectacular failure in pinball history is Jpop's true legacy and most of us are completely sick of this horseshit.
All I can think is I hope the designers who have headed this way got some sort of guaranteed pay in their contracts. I don't know how much the religious sector and pinball crossover with one another to make that an entire theme. I'll keep my money for the levelheaded companies who recognize the difficulty in producing a machine this complex. His answer to code has to be one of the weirdest things I've ever heard. Basically sounds like they are producing full-size zizzle machines.
From the TWIP link:
> Silicon-Valley-esque industrial building
When I read stuff like that, I have no hope in this project. There's nothing about an industrial building that makes it Silicon-Valley-esque. IMHO that's just bandwagon talk, aka "look we are a solid company because silicon valley!"
Quoted from clempo:When I read this I thought they would make the code open source, or make the system user programmable like Little Big Planet on PS4.
I kinda thought the same thing, rendering their machines ineligible for competitive play
Quoted from rubberducks:Oursler is apparently back working for HW's new operators, on games 3 & 4
Nah, he's all Texas now. So that part at least scans.
I honestly didn't read the interview, glanced at it and just couldn't work myself up to care. It looks like really great work! Solid reporting, really a service, I just can't spare the emotional energy for this shit any more.
But for the sake of my friend David Thiel, who's work I respect immensely, and the same for my not-friend-but-I-sure-like-him Dennis Nordman who's a pinball god, I guess I wish them the best. The Jpop shit leaves a terrible taste in my mouth, but I'll let the people who lost money to that clown judge what happens.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The formula DIDN'T produce masterpieces. His games are for the most part poorly regarded by serious players. They are flawed games that some find gorgeous and some find incredibly tacky, with ridiculous, problem-ridden development cycles and BOMs that helped put Williams out of the pinball business.
People need to stop backing this horse already. The most spectacular failure in pinball history is Jpop's true legacy and most of us are completely sick of this horseshit.
ToM is all right!
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:ToM is all right!
not really...
how about just shoot the left orbit all day for theater letters till you play for 10 days
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